48: "Thanksgiving (Canada)" (S3E6)

[00:00:06] Omn Omn Omn what did u do?? Its done What did u do?? What did u do???? Holy shit Nat, are you hurt? Omn Oh my god No Yes I'm sorry

[00:00:34] I don't know i just got here ARRESS HER! Let's talk about this No, she killed him! Shit

[00:00:42] holy shit net what did you do i'm wendy and i'm penny and i'm daphne and this is yellow jackets

[00:01:18] wtf episode 48 this week we're covering season three episode six thanksgiving parentheses canada when is canadian thanksgiving late october october it's in october it's around indigenous people's

[00:01:37] day i think overall thoughts on the episode uh episode five was super fucked up and episode six immediately eclipsed episode five in my brain and it's been so funny because we have screeners like everyone else i know is just seen episode five and they're all like oh my god and i'm like

[00:02:01] oh that's right that was shocking yes i have completely moved into a new shock and the old shock is gone it's just it's been hard to have conversations with people because they bring it up and then i'm like i can't really talk to you about it i know that's how i feel too i was uh talking to my youngest and i was like i can't really say anything because i feel like i'll spoil

[00:02:25] something um but what i have wanted to tell people because i i think we've seen a lot of i'll call it backlash on on the internet and with our group of friends um that people are pretty horrified by um the last episode so i've kind of wanted to say to people hang in there because obviously there's some big changes coming yeah yeah yeah everyone's like that's it i hate shauna now

[00:02:52] and i'm like yeah i still love her i'm sorry yeah i'm very angry i am very angry with shauna yeah very angry with her um i mean her behavior in episode five was reprehensible on every level but in this episode she didn't really do anything wrong like everything she did was reasonable and

[00:03:19] in fact when lottie made her the you know was like shauna will lead us this like calm came over her and she was like very assured about what she thought they should do and she was like when people die out here we honor them and i was like that's i mean it's gross it's ritual cannibalism it's creepy but like you are leading like you didn't step in a moment of crisis and give people a plan that's leading let's leadership it's something she did i mean monstrous fucked up leadership but it's leadership

[00:03:49] she said i get that you guys are angry but we can't let this break us yeah we're still a team we're still a team and that's probably the most sense i've heard out of her in a while because she's been so enraged that i just felt like she was one step from explosion for the last couple of episodes

[00:04:13] especially so in this episode to see her not in that mode and not be the one freaking out about what natalie did was wow i wasn't ready for it because i thought she was gonna like blow her top and she didn't it's she's been able to challenge channel her rage which has really helped her

[00:04:39] yeah and i kind of wonder how differently she would have acted had nat still tried to be the leader after that yeah nat didn't put up any kind of resistance no i think natalie is done yeah i think she's relieved to not be the leader anymore but they here's the thing about that

[00:05:04] who knows what's gonna happen under shauna's leadership they had it really good under natalie and i'm just not sure shauna's cut out to be a leader in this situation but i guess we're gonna get to find out yeah how about fucked up moment of the week daphne you want to go first

[00:05:33] um i'm gonna go with one that i think is very um obvious and that is a man in the wilderness with a friend showing up at the coach ben scott memorial barbecue

[00:05:59] and seeing the head and saying what what the fuck yeah like finally somebody says what the fuck like they should be saying on this show like eight times an episode at least that's not the campsite you want to stumble across yeah i mean well we've all been saying what the fuck for weeks

[00:06:22] years frankly years really so like hello and then there's multiple reasons i say what the fuck because okay yes he does stumble upon this ritualistic barbecue but is it real like i can't imagine it's real because if it is and they get rescued here they're not going to get rescued yet because we know there's going to be more snow

[00:06:51] so it's not time yet i sort of suspect that these two people that stumbled into camp are um not going to live much longer their sunday dinner and next sunday dinner yeah um because i'm fairly convinced i'm sort of jumping ahead but pretty convinced that the tape is theirs that they made that tape it's them stumbling onto the camp right because the voice says like what what is this and then at the end of when the girls in the or the women in the van are

[00:07:21] listening to the tape we hear like the same yelling and screaming we heard and so i think that those two people are the super intense birders that van was sort of referencing and that's why she was like oh god i know who the tape is she didn't say that but she acted that because the show is not fear the walking dead and doesn't hit you over the head with what the character is thinking but um i think that they made the tape and uh they you know they didn't make it out of their life i think those people are

[00:07:51] dead and that would take them away from anthropophagy which is what we learned from cassie last week to cannibalism like killed for the purpose of eating yeah like even ben's death wasn't kill for the purpose of eating it was killed to put him out of his misery and oh yeah we're gonna eat him

[00:08:16] because why not yeah why not because you know they are preparing for winter and every rabbit and duck or goat that they kill and eat is like another week into winter that they might not survive right so they're just gonna let that meat rot no i don't think so no it's gross i have to say though

[00:08:40] if you i have to ask you this question if you were in natalie's shoes is that what you would have done no maybe no that's that's one of my big points i have to say that i have a lot of thoughts on that like that whole situation because i have a lot of anger for what melissa and what melissa did to him

[00:09:08] under shauna's orders because you have to know that shauna came up with that idea so i i wasn't on last week but what struck me so hard was that when after they cut his achilles tendon and went back to the camp number one they just let him just you know did it and then no yeah they didn't even give

[00:09:33] him like berry wine or the nothing or anything just and and and not even a bandage nothing you know just no left in that but also when he went went back it was obvious that that was a group decision oh yeah yeah and i think we're getting into uncharted territory a little bit because

[00:09:56] there you could say that some of them maybe voted against it but are maybe afraid you know like afraid to go against the grain right now because of everything that's happening and i i think that's legitimate but i think i think this is the time where i hope i would have made a stand and said no

[00:10:22] i'm not voting on this and we're not doing this and we can't do this and i would hope i would do that but i mean i'm not saying i would because i've never been in that situation and you know you don't know fear does a lot of things to people we've seen it throughout history so that's why i can't i can't blame shauna and melissa for that like i blame them all yeah it was definitely a group decision the glee

[00:10:47] that they took in it and the way that shauna is enjoying like turning melissa into a monster in that moment and melissa is enjoying shauna turning into a monster that's really fucked up it's the relish yeah yeah that was very fucked up well i had a different fucked up moment of the week the the the people walking into camp was certainly very fucked up but the feeding tube scene

[00:11:13] was man so hard to watch and it's so horrifying like from the perspective of every single person involved in it right obviously torture for ben but like what misty had to do was horrible travis was clearly traumatized by it like everybody had a horrible time even shauna seemed affected by it

[00:11:39] and she was like we'll get better but she acknowledged that it was a shit show and that was a group effort and they clearly all agreed on it and ben had been begging to die for at this point months i couldn't stop thinking about how it must feel for him and that's the image that image in his head just like sitting there on that table or have been in my head now for like six days and i can't get rid of

[00:12:08] them yeah this this episode disturbed me more than i think any other episode i i knew it was disturbing to me because i watched it the first time and i couldn't talk about it with anybody for two weeks and then i didn't want to watch it again and that's not usual i had a hard time taking notes yeah when i went back and looked at my notes i realized i had taken notes on all the adult timeline

[00:12:34] stuff and like just like ben wants to die and like that was the only teen timeline note i had after my second watch so i did a third watch because i was like i need to yeah come up with something i i feel the same i feel like i was i'm really glad that the people showed up at the end because i feel like we're off we're gonna be i mean maybe not but like at least this part is over right the ben saga is

[00:13:04] over um and i'm glad that it's over and we're moving on to something else because it was pretty freaking the last two episodes were pretty terrible it was awful and even if they kill these two new people we don't know them we haven't like worried about them for years right we haven't it it won't be as painful right hopefully maybe they'll find some really twisted way to do it that will make it more painful but and i mean at the same time like props to the show that they made us care so much

[00:13:32] and that we it evoked so many feelings i mean that's what we like right yeah yeah and steven kruger's performance was oh my god is that kruger is that his name yeah he was phenomenal so good pain was just like shining out of the screen like just anguish yeah that's my fucked up moment of the

[00:13:52] week is how happy not happy how relieved and thankful he seemed was yeah he said thank you for i mean and just like oh my god thank you thank you oh my god yes thank you like he was guiding the knife in a little bit like yeah yeah like that peace it was peaceful he crawled over there like yes oh i see you have a knife let me get bring myself to the knife yes i've been waiting for this this is

[00:14:21] all i've been thinking about like that's just because he's talking horrible shit yeah he was trying to die yeah he was trying and the feeding tube scene definitely reminded me of like because that's what we do we do that in prisons and we probably do it more humanely in prisons but um it's probably pretty close to what we did in like guantanamo bay and camp x-ray in those places yeah it's it's

[00:14:49] horrific because they were they went on hunger strikes a lot uh it was interesting to me that lottie was the one who thought of the feeding tube you know we didn't see her say it but she's the one who came up with the idea and i was like has she been institutionalized and has she either had to have that done to her or seen it done to someone else in a hospital i think just gave you a little insight into her character i didn't think about that i think so it's likely she went through a lot

[00:15:19] remember her father was not on board with the voices so god only knows what she's been through also during that feeding tube scene we got the first look at some of those masks that we see later why put the masks on in order to do the feeding tube was that a ritual thing or were they trying to like protect themselves because they were all also wearing coats and stuff i'm not sure what that

[00:15:44] was about it made it so much scarier we're definitely two of the masks that we see in the final scene are the the post pit girl when they're all sitting around the cannibal council although one of them it looks like i think it was the one and i wrote it down because i wanted to make sure that i

[00:16:06] didn't forget who wore which one um shauna wears the one that kind of reminds me of a lop-eared rabbit which had the two pieces on top and along coming down oh that's so funny because she has that whole rabbit thing first season yes yes and then van wore the one that looked like it was made out of a sleeve

[00:16:30] of a sweater and they cut holes in it but it's also the mask that the girl that stands over the pit girl she looks down converse yeah which i've always thought was van i've always thought that was van based on i don't know but yeah just based on yeah the look yeah and the co-ed naked soccer t-shirt which we've seen her wear several times yeah and so the mask evolves from this time but they're getting

[00:17:00] closer and closer they are they're devolving into madness basically and last week when we had cassie on we talked a bit about lord of the flies and the connections between some of the characters so there's some feedback about lord of the flies too people are really cool yeah that's great

[00:17:22] first point daphne okay man um you know what i'm gonna start off a little lighter and go to the parenting the the parenting the parenting adventures of shauna and jeff

[00:17:46] as they are trying to be better parents to callie and protect her um of course shauna gets back from her experience with walter and with lottie's father and she has to share with jeff that lottie is dead which he seemed surprised i mean jeff is really the person on this show i'm just kind of like

[00:18:10] he's living through these things kind of like we are yeah and so i relate to some of his reactions because i'm like yep uh-huh i know i know yeah that's what we thought too jeff yeah um i like that you know they start having this conversation but then callie comes in at the right time

[00:18:36] and realizes that maybe she shouldn't have held on to that tape and she should have handed it over so she does and then shauna starts to put some things together and she's like okay the brakes the freezer you know someone's coming after me something's happening i need to protect my family so she gets them out of the house gets them to the hotel it's interesting to me that now she's kind of scaling

[00:19:04] back on the keeping callie involved in everything she you know they want a parent and protect her and callie is like why would i want to know more about being marked for death and i can totally relate yeah or i can get what she's saying because she's been involved in all this fucked up shit so far

[00:19:28] and no matter how young someone is knowing that there's something scary and being denied information about it makes it scarier it does and she is old enough to know things i think that shauna and jeff's instincts are good to try to protect her but information isn't as much of the danger to her as

[00:19:54] like like she didn't know that lottie could be like cuckoo bananas she just thought she was like slightly eccentric and you know she thought she could control her and get information out of her and she wasn't safe with lottie and they honestly shouldn't have left her with lottie but there are had there have been many times when having some more information would have actually helped callie and so cutting her off from information isn't the best answer i do think finding out what's on the tape

[00:20:21] before you decide to share it with callie is a good idea but they shouldn't cut her off entirely from knowing what's going on it's not too late for that yeah i agree she's old enough and she's involved enough that it's you know it's all too late to try to i feel like maybe she kept the tape away

[00:20:47] like didn't give shauna the tape because she still feels like her mother's holding back which she is which she is and doesn't want to have all the cards on the table yeah she wants to know she wants to know everything there is to know exactly what we didn't see that would have been helpful would have been callie trying to figure out how to play the tape because just keeping it is

[00:21:15] is yeah sort of hard to explain but if we had seen her be like what the hell is a dat tape and like you know at least googling it or something it would have it would have made that make a little bit more sense yeah and i feel like that's who she is that she would have done that yeah and been like i have to get this like special kind of player and like it'll take a week to get here or whatever then there would have been a reason for her to hang on to the tape and not tell her parents i mean she she is kind of

[00:21:44] resourceful she gives her mother a hug which is not something callie does on the regular yeah she should have been suspicious of that yeah drop your phone in and uh i like somehow missed the phone drop the first two times i watched the episode i only caught it on the third watch i missed it on the first watch but caught it on my second watch i like the dynamic

[00:22:08] between callie and shauna in this episode because i feel like we just get to see more of how callie callie has some of the better qualities of shauna like she i know we've said like mother like daughter and some of the deviousness too but i like that she doesn't let her mother get away with it like she she pushes back on some things and there's even a point later that

[00:22:39] callie is you know her mom comes in and it's time for another one of our mother daughter chats and callie like basically tells her when shauna is trying to say well you know you're still a child and she's like i'm the same age that you were yeah yeah which unbeknownst to callie actually just makes it worse because shauna's like yeah and i shouldn't have had to go through that shit then yeah you shouldn't have to go through it now like it that doesn't make shauna be like oh you're right

[00:23:08] you're a complete adult it makes her be like oh god my daughter's being traumatized at the same age i was what would shauna have ended up if none of that had happened to her right if she had went on to brown and dated a mime and all that stuff yeah i like though that shauna instead of blowing up at callie she's like go go to your father before i do something i'll regret and callie just basically

[00:23:35] says i just want to be close to you i thought you wanted that too and i think callie where we met callie i was not the biggest callie fan at the beginning she was such a little snot yeah but i feel like through what her what she's learned about what her mother went through and through what she's learned about her family she's kind of been a bit more grounded in the situation and in some ways i feel like she's more adult-like than

[00:24:05] shauna and jeff in some weird way she is also she is solidly on their team yeah right like just like jeff is like shauna i love you i'm with you i'm your i'm with you and callie also like when she figured out that matt was a cop and was like onto her mom she immediately started acting on her mom's best interest in that situation and she was still

[00:24:31] mad at her mom and she was like mad at her mom but she wasn't going to but she was still protecting she was like i could be mad at her that's right she's my mom she still had her back i can't decide if that mom i just want to be closer to you i thought that's what you wanted to was earnest or manipulation or kind of both i've been going back and forth yeah i think it might have been a little

[00:24:56] bit of both she gets her tape she gets her recording because shauna deleting the deleted file is the second step in deleting something from your phone and obviously she didn't know that and so callie went off to listen to the tape and based on what we heard on the tape in the car

[00:25:19] i don't know that she i think it could be quite a terrifying experience for her to hear and hard to understand just having audio of that would be so confusing and terrifying based on how long the recording was it was a 43 minute recording figure it took shauna like five to seven minutes to like leave the hotel and get in the car and for them to start playing the tape that's like 35 minutes of

[00:25:50] screaming and whatever else was happening you know it's yeah yeah that was a hard place for them to leave us at the end of the episode like knowing that callie starts listening to that and being like we don't even know what's on the tape like right yeah i mean this could be a situation where shauna can respond with be careful what you wish for like

[00:26:19] you wanted you wanted to hear it and now you have and this is what is how serious it is but i don't think she's gonna want callie to have listened to it because she'll be traumatized so which unavoidable yeah it's yeah it's kind of a mess all right penny so um i'm gonna start with what in my notes i've titled oh my god has ty been dark ty this whole

[00:26:48] time so it it was so clear in that sleeping scene that that dark ty has taken over right and when she sat up in bed and was like van help me that like regular ty is trapped inside and dark ty has taken over and i feel like i've seen so many tv shows and movies of like demon possession or something where someone does this they break through and ask for help but van had already started clocking that

[00:27:13] ty was acting weird right she ordered that huge meal with all that meat and like previously ty's been a vegetarian and um she's been i i so after i watched this episode i went back and watched the rest of the season just sort of fast forwarding to the adult ty scenes to try to figure out when did she flip from ty to dark ty and i couldn't figure it out there's one possibility is that it was in that

[00:27:41] scene after she sees sammy and she's sitting in his bedroom and then she like looks up there's a difference in her face and she's like how would you feel about a change of scenery but there's part of me that thinks it was before that i remember last week or two weeks ago whenever it was that ty saw sammy last week daphne was like remember sammy can tell when it's the other ty and i was like oh but it couldn't have been the other ty but now i think it could have been the other ty and that

[00:28:06] daphne clocked that and and i'm like did she turn into the other ty like all the way back at lottie's compound has she been dark ty this whole time or was it like when they did the dine and dash and then they were making out in that alleyway and she saw the man with no eyes and ignored him was that when it was dark ty like i don't when they had sex and the next morning like they were so happy or when she burned the matches from the restaurant all those moments seemed like possible moments for

[00:28:34] me that dark ty took over but it's hard to know but it seems pretty clear that dark ty has in fact taken over and van might not necessarily know because van hasn't spent a lot of time with her before now and everything's been topsy-turvy and she did say like what's with you and the response was my life is a huge mess and i can't fix it i just want to feel good if only to feel something

[00:29:00] and that's a completely reasonable explanation for her you know wanting to do silly dine and dash and pretzels and the carriage and all that stuff is like responding to her life exploding it makes a sense a kind of sense you know and like van is has cancer and so she wants to enjoy her time with her that makes sense too but i i did notice like going back through the whole season that there were

[00:29:24] several moments when something serious was happening when ty looked bored at natalie's funeral she looked bored at the meeting where misty told them that lottie had been killed she looked bored and that made me think she's been dark ty for like this whole season because she was like because she then went after everyone else was like lottie's dead like what she's like oh my god and it seemed very performative and then afterward remember they went to that restaurant and she's like let's just try

[00:29:53] everything on the menu and van's like what's the matter with you how long has she been dark ty i don't know right it reminded me a lot of the movie us and i don't want to give away the movie us but if you've seen us you probably know why it reminded me of that yeah i i worry about van in this situation right although van seems to be dark ty's most favorite person yes yeah but you just i guess you

[00:30:20] just don't know what could happen no definitely don't want to let ty around any pets yeah well and we also have confirmation from lisa who returned in this episode that thaisa met up with lottie yeah and she flat out lied to van's face about it that makes her my number one suspect i mean i just have to think that

[00:30:49] it's none of them although i did convince myself early in this episode that it was shauna but then i then i changed my mind and i decided it was none of them or walter my husband thinks it's callie it's callie yes yes someone else said that to me yeah he also thinks

[00:31:12] jeff is the bad guy but i i don't agree with him no i think jeff and the blackmail was sort of one and done and he's done being the bad guy yeah i don't think he liked it i don't think that that went well for him right you know and he you know the karma thing he's like i have to do something good and he's like callie i want to be a better father like right i don't i don't think he's out murdering people right heaven thing really shook him yeah that was rough my point is i'm just going to go back to

[00:31:40] what we talked about before when you asked that question daphne is that in in this episode and last episode i feel like they all had other choices they could have made and they didn't you know they didn't have to cut his achilles tendon they could have set up guards and kept an eye on him 24 7 they

[00:32:06] have enough of them that they could have done that they could have kept two at a time if they were worried about him overpowering them they could have taken his crutches away um exactly i i mean there's so many other things they could have done and they didn't take a lot of time to decide this either they just went straight for let's horribly disfigure and maim you for the rest of your life

[00:32:32] worse than you already have exactly yeah because it's not just what they did it's the fact that he's not getting any medical care so his life post if if they ever were rescued right is a mess like right and you're keeping him alive because you think he's going to help you get home yeah like how is he

[00:32:57] supposed to do that when you're torturing him yeah and he's like in filth on the ground like yeah that's not bridge like he's not building a bridge in that what did he say he was in a he's in with the meat he's just i'm in here with all the other meat like yeah to be carved up but i was like is ben still the bridge because this the like hooting and hollering attracted those people

[00:33:20] at the at the ben memorial roast and maybe that is something that will eventually lead to them going home and then he will have served his weird purpose i don't i don't know i i mean sometimes i feel people see signs they want to see and so so that's that's what i thought like there were so many different

[00:33:45] things they could have done and when natalie was deciding to kill him that wasn't the only option she had she could have gathered everybody and said hey we need to make him a whole member of the team now would he have trusted them probably not but they could have tried they could have tried that before they cut his achilles tendon they could have let him go she could have left with him there were a lot

[00:34:12] of different things that she could have tried before deciding the only answer was to kill him and i do feel and i i know we've seen this online and with the feedback that we've received i do feel like this is the line in the sand they all decided as a group to systematically torture maim and and

[00:34:35] this this guy and they know and who took care of them and yeah was part of their lives yeah and i do feel like this is a point that you know they've crossed the big big line here this was murder and and not just murder but torture and then murder and i didn't feel like what natalie did was

[00:35:02] noble or honorable at all i feel like if anything she was probably trying to put herself out of misery just like the the part where she's talking to him and he absolutely has the right to say what he's saying to her about how his life is misery and please just put me out of it and she like gets pissed at him and like decides that she's not gonna be the person that brings him his food anymore and somebody

[00:35:29] else is gonna have to take care of that like um i know i i like natalie a lot i i'm i'm just expressing my feelings at that time i thought she was incredibly selfish and i feel like she was putting herself out of misery like you don't get any points for putting someone out of their misery when you caused the misery yeah when you put them in it in the first place yeah that's true yeah like i don't think

[00:35:59] you get anything for that um and i i feel pretty strongly about that you know and that's not to say that the show's not still interesting and the girls aren't still empathetic because i i do feel empathy for all of them um you know i just i i think she made a really difficult choice and i think it's so interesting that travis sort of stepped in front of her and challenged her on it a little bit

[00:36:28] and what he used to try to talk her out of it was not we need ben to be the bridge or you shouldn't kill him murder is wrong it was they'll never forgive you right and he's right except i don't know in the modern timeline they seem to have all bygones be bygones about stuff that happened out there but you know they immediately turned on her in a very vicious way they're so ensconced in the group

[00:36:54] mentality like the mob roles there's yeah and that's what travis knew and you know travis has been nothing this season like he's a shell of who he used to be yeah but he showed personality this week like there was some real person in there i feel like he's maybe not doing as much drugs now that he's not the main vision dude yeah i think you have to look at what happened to travis last season and what

[00:37:24] he went through with the death of his brother that they basically let die yeah and then he ate his heart i mean it's kind of nuts um no you don't come back it's not yeah you're you're a different person yeah yeah um if you look at the relationship with misty and natalie miss i mean misty wanted to be natalie's friend in the current timeline like they were in the future timeline they were

[00:37:54] on misty's you know on her thought process they were bffs but in this episode she was hated natalie for what she did and i i feel like some of that was real misty probably didn't want him to be hurt and certainly didn't want him to die she still had very strong feelings for him we saw that when she

[00:38:23] said goodbye to him and she had to like come to grit you know she was like stop it stop it stop it like the voices in her head or whatever that was making her feel so emotional about it she had to force herself to do that i think that she would she'll eventually sort of get past nat killing ben i don't think that that's a i hate you forever thing i think that's a a flame of fiery anger that will burn out thing

[00:38:48] especially um especially since natalie did kind of get punished a lot of people are able to be like all right you got punished you're not the leader anymore and now you have to be the butcher so you know we can all move on now because you're you've been humiliated and thrown in the mud and everyone agrees and so now i'm not mad at you anymore you know if i was natalie i think i would leave

[00:39:14] honestly maybe that's what it means when they say none of us would have gotten out without her maybe she does leave at this yeah because i just don't know that it's best for her to be there with everyone else no and that's that that's what bothered me and it was interesting that we saw a lot of that was off screen which is interesting because mostly we've seen those on screen but i i

[00:39:42] wish we had seen that discussion but i would have hoped that some people would have said no this is wrong we're not going to do this you know but they're not achilles heel thing about about the achilles heel thing the tube feeding the the you know just keeping him around in this obviously um suffering yeah yeah he was suffering you know i mean they're all afraid of shauna

[00:40:09] and so they're sort of not doing anything to upset her because for the time being shauna is no longer on her like you know rage of terror that she was on uh before ben and melissa and all that stuff and you know like ty said like she seems better and i think all of them are like don't do anything to upset shauna i thought the scene um when they were all eating ben when mari came over and talked to nat

[00:40:37] and was like the thing you did for coach i mean to coach like mari kind of in a coded way lets nat know that i think that what you did was putting him out of his misery but you shouldn't have done it because you know a that's the party line and b they'll never forgive you and you know whatever the many reasons were not to do it but mari wanted to let nat know that like i see why you did it like

[00:41:05] i that mari also didn't believe that ben burned down the cabin right she was one and i still don't i still don't either i still don't i'm even with his his confession that was if he really had done it he would have done the confessing earlier it took yeah months for him to get to i know i'll tell nat i really burned down the cabin then she'll kill me yeah and i think it's incredibly coward cowardice

[00:41:30] of whoever did burn it down to not have spoken up and let him be treated this way unless it was stuck tie and she doesn't remember right that's what um that's what it seems to be leaning towards but i do think that there is probably fear especially among the least powerful of the team

[00:42:02] players of of going against the green because you know you might be next yeah and no one wants to be on shauna's shit list right no definitely not all right definitely not daphne you have another point okay so let's see we've talked about so much of it already

[00:42:33] um so let's let's go to laudia keela and a little with a with a sprinkling of travis um so travis got laudia keela even though travis was still kind of having those visions and experiences i think he just couldn't take it anymore but now he's kind of worried about

[00:43:01] akila because lotty and akila are going back and akila is exposing herself to those gases yeah over and over again which is not a good idea and so he's really concerned about her but she's kind of blowing it off she wants to receive the messages and be able to help

[00:43:27] in any way that she can i think that also that seeing that bridge seeing civilization on the other side of the bend bridge gave her a whole new like energy and motivation to be the vision person she was like oh i really can take i can help get us home yes and lotty is incredibly defensive when it

[00:43:50] comes to like ty was questioning well those are all things we saw before she was really defensive of that like protective of akila getting the visions and at one point lotty was you know asking the wilderness to talk to her again begging i would say um and so they go

[00:44:13] and akila goes in and has this vision i'm not sure what to make of this vision she's got these flickering flickering pieces or pictures of the camp where people are there and then they're not and then along comes this very strange looking bear that's incredibly creepy yeah that was weird

[00:44:39] and the third eye like it has a third eye yeah it shows up i think that's well if the supernatural aspect of the show turns out to be true that's the the people the birders and the third eye is the recording that they're making that guy had some kind of lens around his neck i don't know if it was a camera or binoculars or something but if they're birders they have cameras and stuff

[00:45:06] yeah i'm wondering if the reaction to them being in the camp is going to be one that is instead of oh my god we could get out of here instead quick death let's get rid of them because they've seen us doing these things yeah we can't have in the scene where in the scene where they come in the camp and and uh everybody

[00:45:31] sees them you know like lottie sees them and then travis and akila and everybody sort of stops what they're doing and is looking at them one girl like ducked out and went off screen like off screen right and i couldn't tell who it was and i was like are that is that person circling around behind them to like knock those people out is that where she's going but i couldn't tell who it was and i was like oh it's shauna but then they showed shauna so maybe it was a dark-haired girl maybe it was jen

[00:45:59] or one of the ones whose names i can never remember brit or robin yeah the two new ones i'm not sure it wasn't lottie it wasn't shauna because they were both shown like standing there staring at the people yeah um yeah i'm not really sure i don't think those people are gonna live long oh man

[00:46:25] um it did remind me of lord of the flies at the end of the novel where the the little boy runs into the leg of a british navalman it's like so far in when you're reading the book it's you're so absorbed into this story of the island and the boys and it's like you know godzilla landed on the island that's

[00:46:49] how it feels and that's how this felt like it totally took me out of it and i don't mean that in a bad way like almost like the truman show or something like that it was like this is alien to this environment i don't think it had ever crossed their minds that people would show up like that yeah i mean it's it's been over a year like almost a year and a half

[00:47:18] now but they haven't seen them see an airplane or anything right and they haven't tried to leave which is weird to me like summer would have been the time to do it absolutely yeah yeah so i have to wonder if i don't know i just feel like something is changing on the show and i guess

[00:47:42] we will find out i'm i don't know i don't know i can't wait to watch the next episode all right penny uh i wanted to revisit the ongoing investigation we just get like a little bit of movement there walter first of all gives misty the gift of two bags the two bags of trash that we saw last week

[00:48:08] uh delivered via limo driver which was hilarious a better love note was never sent or received no he knows the key to misty's heart and it's you know giving her evidence to comb through and he was right she made sense out of it that he didn't which was following the lead of those chinese food boxes to lisa and first of all i was like lisa i was so excited to see her again and i

[00:48:33] love her new sort of edgier look and uh her whole like vibe was really cool and we find out that's where the fifty thousand dollars went and you know lottie was also probably that was the apology she was practicing in the mirror was to see lisa that answers that whole mystery but and we get the

[00:48:54] clue that lisa saw taisa meeting with lottie which is a huge clue misty also gets the dna readout of the samples she took from underneath lottie's fingernails but doesn't have anything to compare it to which i find hard to believe that in the course of all of their adventures over the last three seasons misty hasn't surreptitiously picked up dna evidence from all of the girls just to have and have

[00:49:20] them filed in her file cabinets also as a long-haired person and you both have longish hair yeah daffy very long hair like it would be so easy to get one of my hairs for dna comparison i shed everywhere i go yeah and since i dye my hair purple it would be the easiest thing in the world to be like this is a penny hair i'll use this like all of them were sitting on her couch that morning

[00:49:44] she didn't have hairs like well remember curly hair walter does have shauna's hair yes shauna's hair so she sends him the evidence the dna readout which she charmed out of that nerdy guy and i was like misty can be charming when she wants to be when she's manipulating someone she doesn't know how to be charming with someone she actually cares about right i think it's really interesting but so we're

[00:50:08] gonna you know walter's definitely gonna test that against shauna's dna that'll be interesting yeah um i yeah just misty lisa misty still wearing nat's leather jacket i enjoyed all of that as just sort of like moving that plot forward at like a reasonable pace while the other parts of the story like the bend part just eclipsed everything eclipsed everything else i enjoyed misty i thought

[00:50:36] we really see her turn the charm on when she wants something and i like that part of her i thought that was great i guess for my next part i'm just going to keep talking about the girls um the girls in the 90s it's shauna like i i know that shauna online has gotten a lot of hate for the obvious things that she has done and the viciousness that she has showed but when i think about shauna

[00:51:05] i just can't help thinking about she got on that plane kind of with the with the world at her feet she was gonna go to brown um she obviously came from very modest means and she had big plans in the world and then she found herself trapped in the wilderness pregnant um and she lost jackie

[00:51:30] which was a big blow to her especially in the way that she lost her and then she lost her baby and i think for shauna there is no world outside of the wilderness she has no plans on going back she can't even think about getting rescued or going back and i journaled about it she was like we

[00:51:56] can't go back right right there's no going back and i know she kind of especially at the end of this episode kind of adopted the lotty woo woo um but i don't think she believes any of that i think that's for power she knows that other people believe it and so that's the best way of retaining power but i don't think she believes in any of that i think she has no intention of going back or even believing

[00:52:25] that she can like for her it's the wilderness is all there is and that's how she's living you made me think about what else have we seen a person achieve power by embracing a religion they don't actually believe in you know there are so many parallels there's a lot of real world parallels in our own

[00:52:49] world there really is i mean i mean it goes back as far i mean i don't know the history of many religions but i do know a little bit of like catholic and christian history and the marriage of the church to power goes back literally thousands of years and people using the church in order to oppress people to justify things like slavery like it there's a long history of it

[00:53:16] the crusades all of that it's like powerful people are like god wants you to do this thing and the church is like yeah god said that kings are divinely your leader you have to follow them and then those two groups you know together dominated humanity for thousands of years so shauna's just following in the footsteps of humanity yeah and using a convenient source of control over the other girls is like there's this belief in the wilderness and i'm going to use it to my advantage to lead people

[00:53:45] yep and so i i do still feel empathy for most of them and i do feel empathy for shauna because i i mean i can't imagine what she's been through and carrying all of that around when she comes out of the wilderness and that's i think why we see that she's so holding back from her relationships with

[00:54:13] callie and jeff as much as i don't think she wants to i don't i don't even think she can change that i mean she last season when she talked about it at lottie's compound she was genuinely like distraught about how it had impacted her relationship with callie yeah she can't give herself fully to anyone no and it's a it's there's multiple reasons right one is she doesn't want to love someone

[00:54:40] enough for them to hurt her as much as she was hurt by losing jackie and the baby but also she knows how fucked up she is and she's like if i get too close to my daughter i'm just gonna make her extra fucked up like the best thing i can do for her is maintain my distance right and hold on to this persona that is not me yeah pretend to be less crazy than i am right so that cook the dinners and be the housewife

[00:55:05] yeah and for years up until you know adam sort of started her down this path of being more awake she was just numbed out and depressed and just going through the motions yeah we saw her like just you know like masturbating to a picture of callie's boyfriend and then like doing laundry and like dealing with the meat being taken out of the freezer it was a very like small life for

[00:55:31] what shauna had dreamed when she was a teenager yeah yeah she was stuck living that you know living a life that she hadn't dreamed of yeah married to jeff and she wasn't even sure why you know yeah we got a little van and tie in the teen timeline where van and thaisa are working on

[00:55:58] making shelter like building the huts continuing to like get those ready for winter because they're talking about we might be here another winter um but they're having this giggle moment over melissa and shauna like is mel wearing jackie's clothes when they make out it was almost like normal teenage girl behavior it was and i'm like wow this is like what you'd be

[00:56:26] talking about you know you'd be saying at the lockers yep don't want shauna overhear you though because man she'll kill you she will but also thaisa thinks that shauna having melissa with her or being a couple with her is calming her down so she's not as intense and she's better and you see

[00:56:52] that even later they're like see look she's she's better she seems like she's in a better place she's not as angry and we'd been dealing with angry shauna for the last couple of episodes it was kind of nice to get a break from it yeah um because it it was a bit yeah it was pretty intense and also sort of the way shauna was angry was without

[00:57:21] purpose and so she was just lashing out in different directions and it's it's almost like having like a wild animal in your house right like you're not trying to hurt it you're just trying to get it out of the house but like it's gonna scratch things up and make a mess and scratch you bite you because that's what wild animals do and shauna was shauna was like having a raccoon in your house or something like she's just angry at everyone and lashing out and yeah this this is like that comparison

[00:57:50] is it yeah this version of shauna is at least like calm and a little bit predictable and like her thing with melissa may be creepy and dark but like it's self-contained and she's not like trying to take mari down biting people and spitting in people's food anymore like it's it's better for everybody for now for now i mean you know she's gonna do some crazy shit as leader we all know that

[00:58:20] yeah we also got a bit of tyson van in the adult timeline which we talked about a little bit about the food and everything and um i love that van called her out and just said you don't seem to give a shit about anything about self-care and you know what sometimes self-care is super important um but there's this moment when van is trying to find a player for the dat tape

[00:58:46] that shauna had called her about and she gets a phone call on what could only be described as one of those super cool old 90s phones that everyone had that were like see-through with all the color dots and everything that was one of the most 90s things in the world it was so great and so van picks up the phone the lights had flickered she picks it up and ty is on the other

[00:59:16] line saying van i can't help and then later on ty wakes up and she's like please van you've got to help me and then we get that shift so i am wondering if they're fighting with each other yeah and also i go back to my is it magic or is it you know mental illness like up until this time

[00:59:40] we've seen shauna have either ghost visits or hallucinations ty has all kinds of crazy stuff going on that could be either mystical or just hallucinations and like dissociative personality disorder but we haven't seen van hallucinating yeah so did she hallucinate that phone call from a disconnected phone a la rick grimes and walking dead or did that really happen and if it did that

[01:00:07] means there's magic right and we haven't seen her have hallucinations before but maybe some subconscious part of her has been worried that ty's acting weird and sent herself that message it's i don't know if it's magic or not i still don't know this was the first thing though that started to push me toward maybe there is magic i was like that phone call seems magical

[01:00:31] there can be a little magic there's usually a little magic in i feel like the line is still teetering they're still teetering the line up until now i have been very firmly in the no there's no supernatural it's it's all in their heads camp and the phone call i have a hard time explaining because i think that there's gas out there i think that they have that pocket of gas that's in

[01:00:56] the tree but i think that they could be in a very gas gassy area where it's starting to really affect them yeah i mean there's like a lot of stories about salem you know in the what is it 1500s during the famous witch trials that there were plants in the area that were giving people hallucinations and there

[01:01:21] were there's like some kind of plant that was like had some rot that made people have hallucinations and that some of the mania that went into the salem witch trials was people having like psychotic episodes because of a basically a drug but van in the current timeline maybe it's her cancer drugs that are giving her a hallucination it could be i mean because her i'm sure that she's got this fear

[01:01:46] that something's going on with ty yeah yeah increasingly suspicious because ty's acting weird and who would know better than van yeah van had been through all of this with ty before so it can be that it's her it could be her medication that is just you know heightening her sensitivity and worry that she has about van dealing with this i mean ty dealing with this again and

[01:02:16] her being there i mean again we've talked about this before these couplings that there are it seems like in many cases they are not the best for each other yeah so dark tie was the one who sent regular tie to find van in the first place remember she did that like thing in the bathroom mirror where she basically dark ties the one who wanted to find van

[01:02:44] and then maybe it's been dark tie like since she got to van's like we don't we don't really know i think and i don't i mean i could be wrong but i think there's also potential that they have learned to coexist better together inside her and while that's been something that has worked all this time

[01:03:10] now it's not working anymore and there's dark tie is really trying to take over yeah that can't end well definitely not i have more i mean i have more notes i have a little couple i have a little mini point in that

[01:03:34] um the end just shocked me with the birders and i read all the feedback from previous episodes where people were thinking that they might be stumbled upon or that the noises they heard were because of people drilling in the wilderness or something like that and i all thought that was crazy and outlandish

[01:03:55] and not ever going to happen and then of course that reveal just i was like what um but since i have watched it again i love it i just love it i just love that this show is never predictable yeah it came completely as a surprise even after that like oh akila's having a vision that something

[01:04:23] is going to wander into camp that's going to be trouble i didn't think it's going to be like two sort of nerdy looking people with you know yeah being like hello we come in peace like i wasn't prepared for that at all and during the yelling and screaming and dancing they must have thought they discovered some like lost civilization until they saw the head yeah yeah i don't know how you come back from that

[01:04:52] they're dead they're gonna be killed i i can't i don't know like i'm excited to watch it i'm really excited to watch it yeah and i hope that um i hope i don't even know what to hope for at this point yeah i don't have hopes anymore i'm just now it's whatever ride yeah i'm just holding on yeah i'm on

[01:05:21] for the ride that's right i wanted to talk a little bit about dat tapes um dat tapes were a recording and playback medium that was developed by sony in the late 80s and it they look like a regular cassette that we're old enough to remember but current teenagers probably would think belonged in a museum but they

[01:05:45] are um it's a it's a form of digital storage and not analog analog regular magnetic tapes are an analog recording style and that has something called it's called lossy which means that you lose data when you record onto an analog you don't get all the data but digital storage devices and and media are lossless so you have perfect you can make perfect copies from tape to tape you don't lose in

[01:06:15] each transfer when you make copies of a tape the way you would with a record or a cassette that's cds are sort of the thing that took over where dat tapes were going because dat tape players were extremely expensive and and cds came along and sort of outpaced them but um i thought it was really interesting a that um that the scene where van was like the only people whose vat tapes are like garage bands and

[01:06:41] super intense birders and then she and tie lock eyes and then she's like get dressed we have to go like they both remembered who what are some super intense birders that they know about like that was this huge moment and um man and then later van when they were in bed van was scrolling looking at information about dat tapes in like how to protect them when they're in like a wilderness

[01:07:05] environment or you know outdoors how much information do they retain or lose so it got me thinking that like she's wondering if this tape was something that those people made and has been in the wilderness all this time and someone found she's trying to figure out how the tape made it from the wilderness to shauna and she's wondering like you know it was in good shape how come it stayed in such good shape

[01:07:30] and i'm gonna say that they don't seem to be very careful about their items that they've left behind like they didn't know where the necklace was they didn't know where this was like yeah yeah if they they even knew the tape existed right like they seemed kind of shocked to know that there even was this tape hmm well someone brought it back yeah and if that necklace could come out of there

[01:08:01] who knows what else yeah and we don't know where the necklace is now shauna ripped it off callie's that's the last we've seen of it yeah yeah yeah and we did get confirmation in this episode that the necklace has been on ben this whole time yeah because natalie takes it off and when she has to which is just fucked up yeah and then where does the necklace go

[01:08:24] from here in the teen timeline right to shauna i don't know she's the leader but does it mean leader because nat was wearing it the whole time she was a leader but on ben it meant sacrifice i i don't really know what the necklace means i think they're making it up as they go along like all their rituals mm-hmm they're they're so desperate you can see the desperation to make things be something and make

[01:08:54] it make sense and like i really got the feeling that like i really got the feeling that travis didn't believe anymore yeah you know like he was talking about the visions he had and and it was like well when i was having the visions but i don't think he believes that i don't know but he's still loyal yeah yeah i think he's moved away from it now yeah he's not gonna change allegiances to lottie but he

[01:09:22] seems more now to be attached to akila and i think he feels a little guilty for sticking lottie on akila yeah and it's unclear to me still if he had a vision that suggested akila or he just made that up yeah i'm not sure it's really fascinating it's really fascinating to me how they are all still despite shauna is their leader or natalie was their leader it really matters what lottie says

[01:09:52] yeah she still has huge she has a lot of power she says shauna will lead us and everyone is like all right okay yeah partially i think because they respect lottie and she's still very important to all of them and they all believe in her and partially because they're like i don't want to be the one to tell shauna she can't be the leader true that is true like would you i wouldn't i wouldn't go up against

[01:10:20] shauna you can't tell them anything because they explode like they'll i mean ty wanted to have a trial and try natalie and shauna's like she's already confessed i mean what is there yeah why have a trial need to be that do you think that while ben was like starving himself to death and living in

[01:10:44] the in the jail with birds he was still hearing paul and seeing paul i hope so honestly if it brought him comfort i do i didn't want him to go out this way i really didn't i'm kind of bummed i i think hey i wanted him to be the villain yeah i'm kind of bummed that that he's gone because i really

[01:11:11] i think that especially this season they really homed in on his character a bit more and gave him something to do and now they have no adult figure there at all right well they have bird guy yeah for how long um i guess we'll see uh i had a feeling that ben wasn't going to make it out of this

[01:11:37] season alive because they have been giving him so much more to do and say that i was like oh no that's yeah that's usually like the thing again it makes me go back and think about when they do get out of this how do they explain how people died did they all die in the crash like how do they explain this to people like there's only however many of them get out

[01:12:05] did they yeah and did they hide the evidence yeah what did they do i mean if it's like people would want their loved ones you know oh yeah like all the the parents would be like yeah like there's no way jackie's parents didn't want to give her like a funeral funeral right yeah right and we haven't seen any of that we haven't seen any gravestones or anything like that the tiny amount of the rescue

[01:12:33] timeline that we saw was just so little we have no idea what really happened i mean it was just them like walking to an airplane that was yeah and then lottie in a psych hospital that's not much i wonder if they know about um that whole stash of mres that ben had i know we didn't ever see him say anything about it he knows my hot chocolate yeah but you know she doesn't necessarily know that he

[01:13:01] had anything else but where did he have all that stuff if not in those caves like they're they keep going back to the caves are they gonna find he dragged the crate away right well but that was from the pit but yeah did he not take it to the cave like where he did you think they would want that couple yeah there's really valuable stuff in there hot cocoa you would think they would want that but there was also like flashlights and signal flares and bear spray i mean there was a lot

[01:13:29] of useful stuff in there yeah that should be that'll be interesting and i mean these birders i mean they have to have a car somewhere yeah yeah they got there somehow really are they really that close to civilization this whole time and they've been out there they could have they i mean

[01:13:55] they could have hiked for a while backpacked camping but like not more than like 20 miles come on right so but over a mountain where they're where they are they're in like a valley so right on the other side of one of those mountains could be civilization and so as the bird flies it'd be like 20 miles but like if you're hiking it would be a lot longer because you'd have to go like over rocks and stuff like

[01:14:23] that i don't know but i'm surprised that they haven't even like gone to the top of the closest high point and looked around like tried to see if they could see civilization in the distance or something from what we've seen they haven't tried other than that one time yeah and they you know in the second summer that we just saw they had provisions and you know they'd figured stuff out like they would have had a much better chance of making it out after all the survival skills that they acquired

[01:14:53] in a year yeah yeah i did think i did want to point out i did want to point out the song be there by low which is the song that was playing when natalie took care of ben oh i couldn't figure out what song that was thank you it was so sad yeah um

[01:15:15] yeah it was it was part of the the ambiance for the scene and it was just yeah the whole thing was upsetting the other song we heard was misty humming uh breakfast at tiffany's yeah which was such a a weird sound in the in the woods i was like oh while she's eating while she's eating ben

[01:15:38] yeah they're all like so strange quietly sadly eating ben that was so creepy and weird yes yeah and these little groups of people like shauna has a bunch of people with her but then there's little groups around and it's like oh i don't know and then lottie was like lottie had some kind of like auditory hallucination of like screaming and was like this isn't right we need to start

[01:16:04] screaming and got them all to start screaming yeah was it a hallucination or was it real because we've heard that screaming before well she heard girls screaming and then when they screamed it caused the like whatever the thing is right or whatever it is that screams but she heard the little flickers that she heard i think were of the girls screaming i could be wrong i don't think it was the birds yeah and it was funny she was like sing and then all of them none of them sang they all screamed

[01:16:35] yep and it seemed to please her because she was like dancing around and i was like this is how religions start like one person says something and everyone else is like yeah let's do that and then the next thing you know it's a religion well they've got something out there yeah not sure what it is i don't have anything else so if you guys have anything i had some amusing

[01:17:05] things i thought um misty's face when she's talking about keeping ben alive when they're preparing to do the tube feeding was fucking creepy like i don't want misty that focused on me no i think we're getting the misty in the 90s is starting to mold or build into the misty that we have now

[01:17:34] um some funny quotes not all of us turn our trauma into stabby stabby i love that from lisa i really did i'm glad honestly that lottie gave her the money i am i liked lisa lisa everything about lisa was hilarious like she's like i didn't question the 50 000 i just took it like what are you are you crazy like right yeah way more than that like right yeah and the way she was like i will meet with you in

[01:18:00] public where people can see us if you try to murder me again was just yeah hilarious um i liked that misty said i took an oath in several days of vacation that was funny and i thought misty undercover with a baseball hat and sunglasses was pretty cute pretty adorable um i i feel like the walter misty thing is getting a little old and tedious to me like it's just kind of falling

[01:18:30] flat and i don't know where it's going i'm sure they're gonna tell us but for now it's kind of like does she like him or is she sick of him who knows it's hard to tell on people so fast yeah it's hard to tell and like if i didn't like him i would think like he's quite dangerous and and even if i did maybe he's very dangerous yeah there's uh one of my i've been staying off of like fan boards and stuff

[01:18:59] there's so many theories and i was just like you know what i only want my own theories but i did see one that that walter is melissa who's gone through a sex change operation oh my gosh i've seen that one they did a side by side of their faces and they do both have gigantic blue eyes

[01:19:19] they do yes i've i've read that they're related that he's her brother there's so many theories i feel like last week um our feedback had a lot of great theories yeah there was a ton of theories and then online uh our our discussion group on um via facebook there or in discord i think it was jason who was

[01:19:42] like i think they're all connected adam walter diane whatever her name is who was the rich lady that ty had a scene with in the first season he listed a whole bunch of people he's like i think they're all connected and they're all involved with each other and i don't know if it's true or not but it's like a fun thing fascinating yeah if they can tie it all together and it makes sense then i think that's amazing i did go back also and look at adam's tattoos again and um compare them to javi's

[01:20:12] drawings and there is there are a lot of similarities in those images there's a lot of like you just google adam tattoos yellow jackets and you'll find like 30 different people who've done comparisons and put the pictures side by side it's really easy to take a look yourself but there are definitely images from

[01:20:30] javi's drawings that are on adam's back wow so more mysteries about adam still welcome back let's go ahead

[01:21:35] and move into our listener buzz buzz buzz all right so we our first one is from becky anderson what's that ever loving fuck that ending teen shauna wow i'm to the point i can't stand watching her on the screen i can't believe they severed his tendon oh my god poor ben i had so much hope he'd make it

[01:22:04] out alive but i don't see how that can happen now this ending has me too exhausted to even say much about the rest of the episode other than steve is alive we have proof of life i think other tie has taken over and sammy knows it best quote of the episode is by misty i can't believe i met a man like i can't believe i let a man like you bathe caligula

[01:22:34] all right we have a voicemail from jenny ryan hello yellow jackets jenny from saskatoon here i'm calling with a few things to say about various bits and pieces that you've been discussing over the last little while um first of all i wanted to mention um we were discussing how sammy wanted his mother and he was asking for his mother and then he and he wanted ty and then she shows up

[01:22:58] and then he is is like weird about her i think it's i don't remember simone saying he wants you simone was like he's been asking about you and we interpret that as he wants you but in fact i think he was more because what he said to her is are you still my mommy and she says yes and then he looks annoyed or disappointed or scared maybe he wanted her to say no like maybe he's like is she still my

[01:23:24] mommy because he doesn't want her to be um so maybe that's what happened another question i had is we were talking about lord of the flies with um i don't remember her name cassie uh who sounds exactly like wendy anyway i really liked your discussion around lord of the flies and what i want to know is why aren't any of these girls bringing up lord of the flies surely someone has read it in high school uh y'all have to read it don't you and especially in the 90s and i don't know why the

[01:23:51] coach isn't bringing it up like somebody should be like hey lord of the flies i just want a reference to it um i feel like another thing ben probably would have brought up is if there was in fact someone else out there in the woods that he talked to he would have brought them up he was looking for any reason for them to keep him alive he was he really wanted to be kept alive he would have said there's someone else out there like something to make them keep him going and so i i don't know i don't know if there's someone else out there that ben knows about because if he did surely that person

[01:24:20] would have intervened or ben would have mentioned them um another question i had is where are all the insects uh wherever they are northern canada whether it's northern ontario northern alberta i've heard both things bc there would be bugs um where are they why aren't these people being bitten and finally my question about achilles heels my thought about the achilles heel that they sliced

[01:24:45] um ben's achilles and i looked it up so we know the achilles heel where it falls in greek mythology greek it's greek right achilles is he roman i don't know anyway um i guess i didn't look it up that well anyway but it's seen as a weakness or a vulnerable part um on a body which can lead to one's downfall so by severing their achilles heel is if ben was their weakness that was keeping them down from like

[01:25:14] being fully witchy and fully enmeshed in their new culture by slicing his achilles heel achilles heel they've just like taken it out and now they can go full-on mania anyway um oh and somebody was asking i think it was penny like how do you talk about these girls without saying like acting crazy or whatever

[01:25:35] my favorite word is unhinged okay goodbye thanks jenny yeah achilles was a greek hero and there was some kind of prophecy about his eventual death when he was a baby and his mother wanted to protect him from it so she took him to the river sticks and dipped him in it to you know get the power of the

[01:25:59] river sticks into him and the part of his body that she had to hold to dip him in was the back of his of his heel and so that's the only part of his body that wasn't in the sticks river so he was this incredibly successful soldier warrior hero in greek mythology and the only way that anybody ever took him out was that they shot him in the in his heel where he had this weakness and that's where

[01:26:23] achilles heel comes from i love those stories i grew up fascinated with all of that i love greek mythology i i've read so many different versions and retellings and i never get sick of it okay jeffrey ashton says i think ben has to be the one who starts the fire if the season ends with him going full-on evil then we get that big shauna was right moment that makes her younger care character

[01:26:49] easier to like again well that that should be sailed but if shauna just bullied a jury into convicting ben and then had his foot stabbed for no real reason she might be too hateable both to the yellow jackets and us as fans yeah yeah i'm i still feel empathy though like for everything she's been through i mean that's not an excuse there's no defense but yeah i i've been talking to a couple

[01:27:16] of my friends of mine a couple of my friends about my love for shauna and how even with all the horrible things she's done and even when she's a monster she is still the character on the show that i identify with the most i feel like pre-crash shauna was the most like me of any of those girls like i was kind of passive aggressive and i had a jealous a friend i was jealous of in high school and i had aspirations

[01:27:45] of being an artist and a writer and going to your like there were so many things about teen shauna that i identified with i also think a lot of her reactions to things have been really understandable um she's been through a lot and you know she's gone down this sadism route which i think is horrifying and i hope that i wouldn't go there but everything up until that i kind of was like yeah i get it shauna the whole point of the show is that in my opinion some of the points of the show is that

[01:28:13] they're removed from civilization they're removed from all the social taboos and norms that we rule ourselves by and this is what's happening and again that's not an excuse right it's not an excuse it's not a defense but i do believe that's what's happened and i don't think shauna was going to become

[01:28:40] a serial killer in in a normal timeline agreed yeah all right we have a voicemail from megan diveley layman hi guys megan layman here coming out you have some wild and wacky reactions to season three thus far in the big picture i felt like something was missing and it maybe just wasn't quite as up to the snuff of the first two seasons i thought is it not as many big big shocking twists

[01:29:06] or maybe the writing's not as sharp um though it certainly has had its moments with the writing i mean just some amazing lines but i think it might be that natalie's missing um and that might be why in the 90s timeline maybe it doesn't feel like it's as something's missing as much as the current timeline so we'll see um i agree with you jeff is the goat nothing further needs to be said there

[01:29:30] uh shauna moving her baby's body that really killed me as as a mother um and you know what it made me think of mama cats moving their kittens when a cat has kittens and she feels that she or the kittens are in danger in some way they will move the litter to a new location to keep them hidden and it felt like mama was doing shauna shauna the mama was doing that so just heartbreaking um

[01:29:55] the cave gases i cannot believe that the cave gases caused by vacuano was just done in daryl dixon and now was done again in yellow jackets had to be a coincidence but so so bizarre um achilles little you know little farmette um these are 100 tame species of rabbits and ducks they did not try very hard to actually make it look like these girls went out and caught some wild animals and you know like

[01:30:23] domesticated them and and build a pen first of all they could get out of there anytime they wanted um with all the more that's holding them in i could go on for miles about this topic but i'm going to leave it to cat because she's living it she would know um when they started the trial why didn't misty go back to the cabin and do a little forensic investigation i feel like that was first of all would have made for some fascinating scenes and second of all was out of character for her

[01:30:49] um at least as we know her in the future because she would have been on top of that she would have said i'm gonna see if i can find something to prove he didn't do it or or look to another theory um that was totally messed it i want to see what's left of the burned out cabin i can't believe they didn't do that um they should not be executing ben in the middle of the summer they should be saving ben for meat and i am sorry that is harsh but if you're going to kill someone and you're dying of hunger

[01:31:13] you save them until you need to eat them this is just reality here um how did they get so many things out of the fire like they i i was shocked when i saw that they had the cards they went back in to get stuff and they got books on how to build like native american you know homes out of sticks and all the other random stuff but and the cards they got the cards so i don't know how they haven't run out of the ammunition yet either um just we needed to see more of that it pisses me off that they

[01:31:42] jumped straight to six months later a few months later and we didn't get to see anything with the aftermath of the cabin i just i totally missed opportunity there um i'm gonna say something else controversial lottie at least in the present day was boring lottie overall is starting to bore me second only to travis i find travis to be an insufferably boring character and i i kind of hate him being there he's just a waste of space um i don't think any of our current characters killed lottie i don't think we've met that person yet in the future timeline at least and you all threw out

[01:32:11] some really great thoughts on what that might be um i think that in the arc of the show in the remaining seasons the big secret that you know we've done worse that it's not they killed somebody or this or that it's that they left someone behind the big secret is they purposely left someone behind in the wilderness or multiple someones possibly so that they wouldn't get prosecuted for the crimes that they committed there and i think those that person or people are still alive and they are the ones

[01:32:38] who survive are going back and there's going to be a final showdown we have to go back kate for you lost fans um so i filled up my time i'm going to save my random comments about shauna's um breastfeeding for another day maybe never i don't know i've breastfed two kids now and i have a lot to say about some shit i've read on the internet on that topic but uh we'll just stop now bye oh megan wow

[01:33:10] um i don't think bat guano is what's causing the gases i think that it's some kind of natural gas that somebody said this that like you know when the when the when it gets warmer in summer ground expands and shifts and if there were cracks that were closed in winter they might open in summer letting gas out yeah um but i don't think it was bat guano gas it's possible i guess yeah

[01:33:36] all right elisa yuranga says misty and walter detective challenge is pure comedy gold both shauna's are really becoming detestable the whole situation around is so terrible to watch maria lawson says oh my god that was intense i feel like i need to re-watch all of shauna as an adult

[01:34:01] with a new context of seeing her like this as a teen right now i can't reconcile the kindness she showed to lottie's father with the cruelty she inflicted on ben i've been seeing a lot of people saying this like i hate shauna in both timelines now and i don't know what adult shauna has done lately that they're so angry about i've seen a lot of people suspicious that she killed lottie

[01:34:29] yeah i don't think she did i don't think so either but i don't know if that's enough like we don't know what happened in that scene so right hatred doesn't make sense to me for shauna right she lies and manipulates kind of a lot but i just i don't find adult shauna detestable even the adam murderer was was like a ptsd moment covering it up was premeditated but like yeah teen shauna

[01:34:59] monster but i mean it's been 25 years people get past that and she had a baby and and she knows what it's like to be a parent who lost a baby she had compassion for lottie's dad i get it our next message comes from sim who says now i think it's clear what is happening oh i'm glad you think it's clear um i write this after the end of episode five and they just cut coach's achilles tendon

[01:35:25] just like the triads used to do to debtors in old china but those girls are going to be even worse now i can really understand why they are all so effed up and horrid and someone is dedicated to killing them i think that someone is coach ben's twin sister hillary swank who looks like ben so in effect it is coach ben back from the dead via his twin sold twin sister seeking vengeance for

[01:35:51] all the horror they have put him through yellow jackets is full of nature versus nurture psychos dispatching people in quasi-gleeful rapture very poetic at the end there sim i don't think that hillary swank looks like ben but that doesn't mean that she couldn't be playing his twin i think it's

[01:36:12] much more likely she's adam's sister that's true yeah we have a voicemail from carly hello yellow jackets wtf this is carly and i had a thought about van and ty you know um van said that her mom was an alcoholic and i wonder if she has a sort of codependent relationship with ty where she's just

[01:36:39] repeating this dependency that she had with her alcoholic mom you know voting for ben if to be executed if if ty she didn't see ty burn down the cabin you know i think that's a valid theory um and you know i really agree with what you're saying on the last podcast about um the sort of

[01:37:02] danger levels of each of our main characters um totally agree that like shauna if you stayed out of her way then she'd probably leave you alone but misty is super random and you don't want to be on her radar and then i think i think ty's danger level is a real um is is a real focus for this this season

[01:37:26] you know she just she she flips that switch when bad dark ty takes over and becomes so focused that it's really terrifying and it she makes me think of like um like a cougar or some other kind of predator that's just relaxed and chill and then as soon as they they find a target they just become

[01:37:51] focused and and very fast and determined so you know ty reminds me of a big cat uh predator and so then i was wondering if any of the other characters have sort of an animal um that they remind you of you know like what would what would be an animal that that represents shauna what would be an animal

[01:38:13] that represents misty um you know do they have these like wilderness personas based on animals so anyway just had a thought really enjoying the podcast and the tv show so um talk to you next week thank you well i already compared shauna to a raccoon so i'm gonna stick with that one

[01:38:37] you did what would missy be oh misty's a cat yeah that's she has a pet bird that she loves and she's always wearing like kitty cat clothes and like yeah she's a cat she's a she's a hunter she's a killer like any outdoor cat i've ever had has been like just a vicious murderer of birds and squirrels yes

[01:39:01] yes jennifer mckinley says my screen was really dark but did mad mental melissa just do a hostile on coach's ankle that's immediately what i thought of absolutely i hate teenage shauna so much should have been shauna spending so much time in psych wards rather than lottie misty's ability to gain access to absolutely anywhere and everywhere is getting ridiculous morgue crime scenes and the

[01:39:30] matthew family's palatial penthouse all in one episode i know she's a great citizen detective and all but come on lottie's dad having a business meeting five minutes after the death of his daughter is amazing as you know jason i lost my mom in january and i'm still all kinds of fucked up work is the last thing on my mind oh well we all grieve differently have absolutely no idea what

[01:39:55] lottie travis and the other one were up to hope the podcast enlightens me oh thank you jennifer and i'm sorry about your loss i don't think he really had a business meeting i think he was on wall street for so many years he just thinks he has a business meeting all the time i will say like their presentation of dementia was did not seem real to me well you would know yeah it it seemed

[01:40:22] tibia silly silly yeah yeah all right angela says hello keeping this short and sweet i do not think the lovely summer camp after the fire is real no one has questioned where domesticated goats have come from in a canadian wilderness where in the hell would they find a goat let alone a whole herd just

[01:40:46] saying i think this world with beautiful huts and animals is not real buzz buzz buzz it does seem very tranquil and somebody compared it to gilligan's island like yeah they've been able to like construct these huts they seem to have a lot of resources it it is pretty unrealistic but there's no trash laying

[01:41:09] around you know there's everything seems very tidy yeah like the the huts and the enclosure where the birds and rabbits and everything are is really like neat and clean and like i did notice um in one shot that there are airplane seat belts holding some of the fence together i just thought that was a really nice

[01:41:31] little touch alma contreras says i just came in to say that i really dislike both old and young shauna the actresses are doing good with her character because they have really made me hate her i'm listening to the cast and i really disagreed with what you guys said about melissa coercing shauna into her vile behavior it's more like urging but anyway i really don't think shauna needed anyone stroking her sadistic

[01:41:59] ego she is just vile and come on she was messing around with her bff's boyfriend behind her back in the first place and she seems to not have a problem hacking into people or animals some will argue someone had to step up to it but shauna seems to take pride in it oh i just can't stand her alma just tell us how

[01:42:19] you really feel this show evokes a lot of feelings um all right we have a voicemail from steve brown hello yellow jackets wtf this is steve and this is going to be for did ty do that it's got to be a steve urkel thing right misty blackmailing the whatever this guy is the corners assist or whatever i try to get lottie's things red the fellow citizen detective i noticed misty is wearing natalie's jacket

[01:42:49] as she's examining lottie's personal effects no cell phone okay strange is how to double check with a deck of cards yeah the king of hearts is the suicide king of course ty is the one who draws the suicide king to kill coach hmm i don't know how that's gonna turn out oh so lottie's dad lived in the penthouse of this uh swanky building and lottie was was living with him at the time i love this conversation between ty and young ty and young van here about the the comparison between steve urkels

[01:43:17] stefan and ty and her other half oh young misty bringing ben his last meal is that a fish wait a minute how did walter get into the penthouse before misty did and shauna it's a detective idiot let me get this straight akila travis and lottie are at the the bad gas cave to try to get akila to what commune back with nature again okay so it's good to see that uh sam still has steve the dog

[01:43:46] because it's good to see the steve as well oh ty just slit that rabbit's throat i don't understand the time frame if lottie was just released from the psych ward but then she somehow but she was with her dad for weeks i don't understand how could she and now misty just found her phone of course walter had already found the phone and cloned it okay shauna pretending to be lottie for lottie's dad is i don't know it's weird and creepy in some ways but also kind of sweet okay so akila had a weird

[01:44:15] vision about the coach in her little dreamscape now he's having some goat therapy oh okay that last second saved by travis lottie and akila he has purpose he's the bridge home oh i see they cut his shins that he or his killies so that he wouldn't be able to walk away but oh okay thanks steve very visceral reaction from steve yeah all right hiker crone says it wasn't ann perry's mother who was

[01:44:44] murdered but the other girls thanks for the discussions they're interesting um oh that's from heavenly creatures i think oh yeah okay yeah it was the other it was the other mother i don't know if i said one way or the other but um one of the mothers of the two girls gets gets killed with a rock i think it's a little fuzzy in my head

[01:45:09] okay dave says i've heard several of you mention the idea of girls losing or returning to civilization however i believe the show is actually a commentary on how uncivilized our society truly is lord of the flies and alice in wonderland both seem to be consistent references through the series these works are critical of the world highlighting the madness and chaos in society in lord of the flies a group of

[01:45:36] boys who are engaging in a brutal conflict are rescued by naval officers participating in a world war revealing the hypocrisy of those in power similarly alice in wonderland portrays the madness of the world through absurdity and surrealism i think the characters in yellow jacket show us the craziness of civilization both before and after their ordeal we see a housewife a politician a drug addict

[01:46:02] caretaker a shop owner and a religious cult leader each reflecting the dysfunction of modern society additionally the girls experienced significant trauma even before the plane crash can we even be sure that the crash wasn't intentional perhaps orchestrated to eliminate lottie who presented such a problem for her wealthy family you know i have to say i've kind of wondered that once or twice

[01:46:28] yellow jackets are mostly infertile female drones who at times will eat each other if the colony is poised to collapse i think this defines the character of these women throughout their lives not just in the wilderness the wilderness is simply their abyss and the farthest they have fallen ultimately i think the show is saying we live in a vicious chaotic world i think these characters make things worse as they try to solve our own individual problems

[01:46:57] okay that was great dave thank you thank you dave that gave me a lot to think about i hadn't i hadn't brought alice in wonderland into my thoughts about this show at all mm-hmm yeah that adds a different i feel like i need to watch it with those glasses our next piece of feedback comes from dorothy who says thank you so much for all the information you

[01:47:22] provide you're welcome you pick up on so many little details that i don't pick up on my question is regarding walter i found it interesting that it was walter that was driving such a nice new looking car in one scene and then we find out that lottie withdrew fifty thousand dollars which is in the range for a new mustang could that be a clue the show is dropping to suggest it's walter that lottie was paying off and perhaps the one who killed her love listening every week

[01:47:48] thanks a lot dorothy and that's a great theory just turned out to not be true yeah may almardini says i was thinking that shauna's teenage personality doesn't make sense compared to the present day shauna which led me to this wild theory is melissa real has she spoken to anyone else is she part of shauna's imagination i hate melissa by the way i think she represents the evil inside

[01:48:15] shauna i can't go back and watch and i'm curious if you have noticed i'm a total misty sympathizer i don't know if it makes me fucked up that i feel like i understand her and i don't feel like what she does is insane perhaps the actors who play misty are that great well they are yeah they definitely are i i think the character especially in the young timeline but in both timelines engenders a lot

[01:48:43] of sympathy and empathy yeah i my heart goes out to misty on a regular basis and then i always come back to like the the petty mean little things that she does that are like constant reminders that she's not stable and yeah and that she's dangerous and i have heard that theory about melissa before but i've seen her talk to other she talked to jen a lot yeah yeah she's talked to jen she even

[01:49:11] like hit jen and like yeah i i think she's real but it's fun to think about i do think that there's something to the idea that melissa is symbolic of the evil that's inside of shauna and maybe this really horrible shauna that we're seeing in the teen timeline right now will have some kind of

[01:49:34] transformation if she gets rid of melissa in some way i don't know macy oh macy mary mary says what if lottie's dad confessed to the airplane incident and we just didn't realize it when misty starts trying to speak to him he seems very disoriented for a minute not even recognizing his own daughter's name when misty asks if he thinks someone pushed her he adamantly says

[01:50:03] no this was an accident plain and simple and already down at the station won't see a dime if he says otherwise but what if he was confusing his daughter's death timeline and was actually replying to the first time lottie died out in the forest when her actually his plane crashed what if when shauna says sometimes it's hard to show love the way we want it resonates differently for him because the way he showed her love was putting her out of her misery while making things easier for himself

[01:50:33] what if he thought the plane crash would be a kindness and selfishly a relief i don't think his mentioning scorsese is out of the blue either he's famous for mafia inspired films and i feel like the matthews waters run deep and murky there's more to the matthews than we've been told and i for one cannot wait to see it well i don't i don't think that he would kill the entire soccer team to to kill

[01:51:03] lottie but i do think that he has power and money that he uses in fishy ways absolutely i think maybe maybe that plane trip was about more than just the soccer team yeah you know maybe it was to take something somewhere somebody somewhere yeah that's true yeah alex says i love to throw out some big

[01:51:32] long-term theories that might sound a bit on the crazy side for fun in the opening credits this season there appears to maybe be a clip of the plane's black box being found if they find the black box they may realize the cables appear ripped out this is a huge stretch but what if misty is able to pin the crime on someone else the result would be that whoever she pins it on gets the blame and likely

[01:51:59] is sentenced to be the next victim if this victim happens to be pit girl from episode one that gives an excellent reason to the smile misty gives after she takes a bite a smile of i got away with it and got rid of an enemy at the same time i think it's a fun way to explain the smile she gives otherwise why smile after taking a bite like that what do you guys think too far-fetched no completely reasonable

[01:52:23] theory no it absolutely is i love the crazy theories yeah i think it's amazing honestly i want to do like what lizzie does on the from podcast and like build a board and start trying to tie all these things together yeah we need a citizen detective board we definitely do all right chris seth says

[01:52:47] the last two scenes with shauna are supposed to be a drastic juxtaposition but they really just show shauna's desire for her uninhibited self she's compassionate to lottie's dad but the line sometimes it's hard to show love the way we want to shows the lie because it means she knows she is broken she knows what love is supposed to look like but instead of doing the real work of trying to

[01:53:13] overcome the trauma she put on her housewife costume after they were rescued and tucked the primal shauna away just below the surface in my opinion she wanted to hold on to the primal version of herself because she liked it but hid it because she knew society wouldn't accept the violence this scene is closely related to the last where shauna tells melissa

[01:53:37] you shouldn't be afraid of the bad parts of you on a fundamental level society is a mutual agreement to curtail the bad parts of ourselves for reciprocal benefit nat hits the nail on the head when she condemns shauna for enjoying the mutilation of coach scott and shauna confirms her development when she attacks nat's criticism as if the admonition against relishing violence is a high bar there have

[01:54:03] been two scenes in the present day timeline where shauna reveals her true self the first is when she is pointing the gun at the junkyard owner and the second is where she screams at lottie about giving collie the necklace everything else is a precariously held veneer sophie nalice has done such a phenomenal job i don't even like seeing young shauna on screen right now some other pods have criticized melanie linsky's performance saying adult shauna seems too dumb but i think she's done a

[01:54:32] great job of portraying someone who is regretfully wearing a self-imposed mask over her violence there is an unleashed version of shauna on its way i think that's great yeah this is yeah this is great chris thank you so much for this i forgot about the junkyard gun scene yeah she was shaking yes and we did point out a couple of weeks ago when shauna ripped the necklace off callie or when she saw

[01:54:59] she erupted and it very much matched the young shauna that we've gotten used to see the rage yeah although i think that seeing that necklace and reacting that way was not at all unreasonable no i agree not at all no i agree and i think that's what people do people don't want to face their trauma especially if there's guilt and shame and and also legal action involved you can't deal with this

[01:55:28] kind of trauma without talking about it and they all made a pact not to talk about it right who are you going to talk about it so squashing it down and pretending is the only choice really what therapist are you going to trust with that information and they all sort of intentionally separated from each other too because they were like well i assume because they'll draw too much attention if they're always together so yeah they they have no choice but to squash it it's horrible and it's probably eating

[01:55:56] all of them alive from the inside but yeah i understand the choice yeah it would be hard to do that work in the public you know in the light of day yeah all right last but never least we have voicemail from archmaester rennie and i'm so glad you are watching and sending in feedback and that it

[01:56:18] didn't get caught in spam this time yeah here are my wacky wilderness theories of the week first this one's about how coach will be a bridge i think that the conflict between shauna and natalie over coach will serve as the opportunity to rebel for shauna to rebel against natalie's leadership

[01:56:42] and in response natalie will volunteer to hike out alone and find civilization and rescue or maybe she'll just sneak off and do it and back in season one i think it was adult lottie who said that they wouldn't be there without natalie and that might be the quite literal truth but i think maybe that natalie's motivation will be

[01:57:05] that she sees that young shauna is a monster leading them more and more into savagery uh shauna has gone beyond anger i i understand anger i get anger and i see why she felt like pummeling lottie but never have i felt any desire to compel my girlfriend to cold-bloodedly slice the one remaining achilles tended on a one-legged

[01:57:28] man scary so anyway instead of staying and tried to lead the group natalie will pivot and try to save the group so second i don't have enough for an actual theory here just some hints and ruminations uh there is something going on about fifty thousand dollars uh remember in season one we learned that

[01:57:57] lottie cleaned out travis's bank account but why would lottie do that she's rich well she's clearly a trust fund baby and there may be restrictions on her trust fund so that she can't get out more than modest amounts maybe the 50k or part of it that she withdrew on the day of her death was what she had

[01:58:21] taken from travis's bank account and deposited it in that bank so that she could take it out when she wanted it so she withdrew it on the day she died to pay off the blackmailer and the meetup went bad and lottie got killed i don't know who the blackmailer might be there are so many suspects and suspects but jeff's sort of fake blackmail in season one might just have been foreshadowing for real blackmail

[01:58:51] buzz buzz buzz thinking through what rennie said i gotta think about that for a while yeah i gotta process well thank you rennie we really appreciate it all right that is our show thanks

[01:59:15] for listening everybody next up yellow jacket season three episode seven croak a really interesting word to use yeah i've looked at the next couple episode titles and i'm like i don't know what's happening but none of it sounds good no definitely not if you want to write in or send us a voice message about it you

[01:59:42] can find all our contact information at podcastica.com while you're there be sure to check out our other shows what are you guys watching right recently white lotus day a devil i'm digging day a devil it feels like a season four not oh of the netflix show awesome yeah

[02:00:04] i haven't started yet i'm looking forward to it though yeah those that's about what i have bandwidth for right now yep as far as what podcast uh podcastica covers we got some good shows coming up we've got handmaid's tale coming up next month and the last of us that's pretty exciting yeah

[02:00:29] wheel of time is starting up right now and like you said daredevil just started there's so much going on this spring yeah i think um and or is coming back as well yeah at the end of april yeah so yeah it's definitely heating up all the shows that kind of got a pause during the strikes are now

[02:00:53] hitting all at the same time so yeah all right that's our show thanks for listening buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz