50: "A Normal, Boring Life" (S3E8)

[00:00:49] Hey everybody, welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Wendy. And I'm Penny. And this is Yellowjackets WTF episode 5-0. Woo! Nice. This week we will be covering the season three episode eight, A Normal, Boring Life. It wasn't normal or boring. No, not ever. It

[00:01:11] was fucked up, however. Yes. So what did you guys think in general? Penny? I had a hard time sort of getting my thoughts into any kind of organization because this episode just so much happened and it just was on such a breakneck pace. I feel like we're racing to the conclusion of the season, right? And things are a little less symbolic. Things are a little

[00:01:40] less, let's dig in and do some deep development here and more like answer questions, post new questions, like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. I mean, I loved it. It's thrilling. It's a different beast than like episodes two and three and four, you know, which were more build-uppy. This is like the boulders coming after you. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know how Yellowjackets

[00:02:04] Yellowjackets episodes often build up to the last like five minutes or something, but the season on a bigger scale is like that. I guess a lot of shows are like that. Yeah. We're just coming more into a crescendo with everything. What about you, Wendy? Yeah. I feel like this definitely almost felt like a nine, right? Like, yeah, they're the last three have felt that way. Everything is moving pretty

[00:02:32] quickly. And I'm excited that we have two episodes left because I feel like they're going to be chock full. Yeah. So I'm excited. I mean, I, um, also similarly, I found when I was taking notes, I didn't have a lot of big points. I had a lot of little notes, but yeah. I, yeah, I really liked it. I thought it was thrilling. I'm, I'm digging the show more and more as this season. I mean, I guess I should say

[00:02:58] this season more and more as it goes along. And, uh, I'm actually kind of bummed. It's almost over. I wish, I wish we could, I hope we don't have to wait two more years for season four. Has it been renewed for season four? I don't think we've heard, right? I don't think it's official. Yeah. Oh, hopefully it will. Oh, I think it will. To be left hanging. Yeah. It's doing okay. I think so.

[00:03:25] All right. Fucked up moment of the week. Do we even need to say it? I mean, I would be lying if I picked any other moment. What else? Or what, what do you want to say about it? Um, I can't watch it. I can't look directly at it. The last like couple of minutes where, Shauna bites, uh, I'm calling her Calissa and, um, and then dangles the skin over her mouth.

[00:03:55] The first time I saw it, you know, I watched it immediately after we recorded last time. And I was like, uh, I can't believe I'm watching this. Ah, this is awful. And I'm like looking away and doing that thing where you look through your hands. And, and I was like, all right, on rewatch, I'll figure out how I feel about that. And then when it kept, when I was rewatching the episode and I would get close to the end, I was like, nope, still can't watch it. And one time I actually slammed my laptop down. I was like, nope, I'm done. I really liked it on second watch. I was like,

[00:04:25] oh, this is just so juicy. This is so fucked up. And then she said, did she say right then? What the fuck? And I'm like, man, you know, your name, dear podcast correctly. I keep saying it every episode. Yeah. Thanks for the advertising ladies. That could be once, at least once an episode and it would be completely natural. Yeah. Or more times. Uh, man. Yeah. I was like, I was just like, wow, that is so wrong. And, uh,

[00:04:54] they're really pushing it, pushing the envelope with the show. And, uh, I'm disgusted by it and love it all at the same time. Um, but I think Shauna also wins the runner up position for me, young Shauna by forbidding everyone to leave the wilderness and get rescued at the end there. Yeah. That's fucked up on a different level, like a different kind of fucked up. I mean,

[00:05:18] equally disturbing is Ty on one side of the glass door talking to other Ty going, please let me in. I also think it's pretty fucked up to get involved with a woman who, you know, you killed her mother or you participated in the killing of her mother and you never tell her and you marry her and change your

[00:05:47] name and live that life. Like that's completely fucked up. Yeah. And then you're like so happy that your life is so great. And the reason why you changed your name in the first place is because you don't want to risk getting hurt or ratted out by anyone, right? So she has this wonderful life that's precious to her that she wants to protect. It's built on a lie. So there's a huge risk of it

[00:06:16] all going up in smoke. And then she takes this tape and sends it to Shauna Sadecki. That was really dumb. I had to really suspend my disbelief on that one. Like if you really want to do what your unlicensed life coach or whatever it was said to let go of the past, then burn the damn thing. Don't send it to the woman that you're most scared of. There's a lot of holes in her story. Me too.

[00:06:42] One of my points is Calissa is suspicious. Yeah, maybe so. Well, all right, let's get into our points. Penny? I want to start with a sort of general topic, you know, because people know that I do this podcast, they send me articles and memes and all the stuff that they see that they think is cool. And somebody sent me this article from Screen Rant that was titled, Yellow Jackets has a big

[00:07:05] Shauna problem, and it's making season three difficult to watch. And first, I want to remind everyone, the author had not seen episode eight that we're going to talk about. But so this is after episode seven. And she writes, Shauna isn't likable in either timeline. Shauna is unlikable from Yellow Jacket season one, but she's also portrayed as somewhat relatable. And then she goes, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, some stuff. And then she goes, she comes into her own in the wilderness.

[00:07:34] And then Shauna is becoming increasingly less likable and understandable in both timelines. She's angry. She's out for blood. She's, you know, all the stuff we've seen. Shauna did a bunch of shitty stuff. The article goes on to ask whether or not she can be redeemed. So it got me kind of angry first, because I'm just so tired of the double standard, the women always needing to be

[00:07:59] likable. And like, I was thinking about Breaking Bad and Walter White, the whole way through that season, I never saw a single article that was like, is Walter White becoming too unlikable for you to watch Breaking Bad? No, it was like, it was like, he's very unlike, you saw articles like that? I saw them about Skylar. I saw, oh yeah, they were vicious with Skylar. And I thought that was fucked up. But with Walter White, what I saw is things people saying, it's a good thing that Jesse is likable, because we really

[00:08:27] need someone to root for in this show. So it was sort of a variation on that. I think Shauna is going through a descent. And I don't need her to be likable as long as she continues to be and always has been complicated, real, flawed, dark, and intense, right? Like, it hasn't been that long since we didn't used to have characters like this on TV that were women.

[00:08:55] And it hasn't even been that long since we never had antiheroes to follow on TV, right? She's interesting. She's fascinating. Like, I'm not bored of her, that's for sure. Me neither. And I have said many times I love her, and I do, but I don't know if I like her, right? Like, like is different, and I don't need her to be likable for the show to be good and for her to be unbelievably fun to watch on screen. I agree. Yeah.

[00:09:21] So I started out with, is Shauna unlikable? And then I was like, who cares? It's like, so what? That's not the point of the show. The point of the show, I'm not sure what the point of the show is, but I think it's to ask questions about, you know, what can you come back from and what can you not come back from? Can you leave the past behind you or not? Otherwise, why go between the two timelines, right? It's like, what happens if you repress your trauma for 25 years? Yeah.

[00:09:48] This is what happens. It's like, stuff is eventually going to leak out. And, you know, can they be redeemed? I don't know. Maybe they're not going to be. Some of them are probably going to be dead by the end of the series. We've already lost a couple of the adult Yellowjackets. And I think, I don't think there's a happy ending for Ty. And like, Misty doesn't deserve a happy ending. Can she be redeemed from being like a casual murderer? Like, I think they're all descending.

[00:10:12] You know, the only character who's not sort of outright evil or really, really sketchy is Van. Oh, yeah. Right? Like, Lottie's a murderer. I mean, we're starting to see that Shauna may truly be a psychopath. It's weird because this season, I'm feeling more like, oh, Nat is the goodest one. Yeah. That's how I feel. But now we've lost Juliette Lewis.

[00:10:39] Yeah. Well, I think it's funny. I know that Juliette Lewis wanted to be written off the show, but I think it's been kind of good for the other characters to lose her because it hastened their downfall because she's the moral one, right? So she's been like, she was the one sort of being like, you can't do that. She's the Herschel. Yeah. And with her gone, they are literally spiraling out of control. And I think that they probably would have had to write that character's death eventually anyway to get to where they want

[00:11:09] to go with the other characters completely falling apart and losing it. Interesting. I also feel like the whole thing might be like a psyops game. You know, like we start out and we show Shauna in season one as this person who seems very meek and mild and the victim of her husband, her philandering husband and people being mean to her. And she didn't get the chances and the

[00:11:39] opportunities because of this thing that happened to her. And little by little, as the years go by, they're, they're challenging us. Like, this is what you thought she was, but here we keep moving the dial and she's somebody completely different. Yeah. I always say, like, I think it's about understanding how people get into these extreme situations that we usually look at and say, what the fuck? How would anyone ever get there? And then pull us into it

[00:12:07] where we actually get to the same place. And, and like, especially with Shauna, I know a lot of people, uh, even me, like I, I understand this article because at first, even though I felt critical of a lot of things she did, I also agree with the article that she was more relatable in the beginning. And now I don't agree necessarily that she's less understandable now, but she definitely has gone more off the deep end in both timelines. Right. So it's harder to root for her,

[00:12:33] but if I'm right, that it shows how you get to a place where you can be this extreme, then we all feel a little bit like, oh, they kind of got me cause I got that there with her. And then she went past where I'm at. And now I feel like, oh, what was I thinking? You know? Yeah. Like why would I follow this person? Yeah. And you know, I, I love Shauna. I've said it so many times and I'm, I'm getting like increasingly uncomfortable with that, but the trauma and things

[00:13:03] relatable, like I can really imagine what some of those losses would be like. And it's easier for me to relate to Shauna than Misty. Like I do not understand Misty. I, I think there's something fundamentally wrong with her that was always wrong with her. And it's hard to, there are things about regular Thaisa that I identify with. Like obviously she went to a high powered law firm and all that crap. I did that crap, but I've never had, as far as I know, an alternate personality that takes

[00:13:33] over and you know, when I'm asleep, it does horrible stuff. Like I, it's hard to relate to that. Should we tell her Wendy? No, let's just keep it secret. Penny in Galveston last year, you wouldn't believe what you did. Remember so-and-so who used to be in the group? But I agree with you. I think, yeah, that it's okay if we don't identify. But I think in general,

[00:14:03] to have someone to root for, and if they had picked Shauna, it's sort of like the, um, a Khaleesi problem, you know, Daenerys Targaryen. It's like, it's kind of like the same thing, you know? You're like, oh yeah, she was my girl. And then, oh crap. Like the whole time watching Agatha all along, I was like, I think she's deeply misunderstood. And then you get to the end of the season and you learn some stuff and you're like, maybe she's a little misunderstood,

[00:14:30] but she's mostly evil. Like it's just... And, uh, Vince Gilligan, who's the showrunner of Breaking Bad, you know, when that show started, he was doing something a bit against the grain by having a show about, uh, kind of a bad guy. And, um, now he wrote, he published this Instagram video, or I guess he was speaking to a group of

[00:14:55] writers at something and he was encouraging them all. We need more stories about heroes. Cause these days there's a lot of antiheroes and just bad people being featured in fiction. That's the trend now. And he's like, man, we need to look up, we need people to look up to. So if you, he was just sort of saying, if you, if you don't quite know what you're going to write next, let me encourage you to write a hero. And he's, his next show is going to have Ray Seahorn who played, uh, Kim in Better Call

[00:15:22] Saul as a hero. So that'll be interesting to see how he could do with that. You know? I mean, he's a visionary. He was at the beginning of the antihero curve and he sees, he sees patterns that I think the rest of Hollywood sees later than he does. And, um, I hope we're at the beginning of a hero time. I think the Buffy reboot is very timely too that people are like, yeah, bring me a

[00:15:49] kick-ass female superhero. I want it. Um, I, I, I could use some more hopeful programming in my life. I was thinking about first, I was going to be like, if you want likable characters, watch a sitcom. And then I was like, huh? By the end of friends, I found all of them deplorable and most of big bang theory. Oh, Seinfeld, horrible people, righteous gemstones. The whole point is that they're horrible. Like the last time I think I liked a character was like David on Schitt's Creek.

[00:16:19] Love David. And it took about a season two for me to start liking him, but he got better by the end instead of worse, like all those other sitcom characters. I feel like I'm, I'm just, I, I'm like attracted to the dark though. Yeah, me too. Like I lose interest in the hopeful, right? Well, that's why I'm hoping Vince Gilligan can do it well because yeah, you're afraid, oh, what if it's boring, but you know, before the Sopranos, there were a lot of good guys

[00:16:47] on TV and I, I liked a lot of shows. Rockford Viles, Greatest American Hero. Yeah. Trying to think what else. So let's see what he can do. Rockford Viles is such a odd reference. I don't know. I could, I'm trying to think. Andy Griffith. I don't know. It just made me giggle. There's some wholesomeness for you, but there were, there were more good guys than bad guys and bad guys were more two dimensional.

[00:17:15] And I think this trend of making bad guys more three dimensional and, and featuring them has been really fascinating and I've really enjoyed it. I love a lot of villain stories and anti-hero stories, but we need balance and we, and we need to remember that they are anti-heroes. Like it's, it's like, I admire Rick on Walking Dead, but there are times when I'm like, I'm sure glad he's not in my real life. Yeah.

[00:17:39] And also there's a difference between showing flawed characters, which I, we all are. So even your heroes, I like when the heroes have, they're not perfect. Right. Versus somebody who's just a bad person, like Negan getting this following or Walter White. Right. And then you see, uh, it sort of maybe has had an impact on the culture where bad behavior

[00:18:06] has its fans and it's glamorized too political, but some of the, I think politics has gone there where some things that wouldn't have been okay now are seen as ha ha. That's great. You know? And it's like, yeah, it's toxic to the culture. Yeah. It's the Homelander problem, right? That like people got to whatever the last season of The Boys was and we're like, how come Homelander's suddenly the bad guy? And everyone's like, what? He was the whole time. Oh, weird.

[00:18:34] And you know, he does look cool if you don't look too closely. He's like, you know, blonde and good looking and he flies and he's got the red, white and blue suit. Like it looks great if you don't look too close. Yeah. Well, we should probably talk about the actual episode. Yeah. Wendy? I'm going to talk about Shauna some more. Me too. I felt like the episode was very Shauna centric. Mm-hmm. Both. Yeah.

[00:19:03] It starts out with her having another visit from Jackie. So like, I feel like we've gotten her almost every episode. It's great. Mm-hmm. And I was thinking like, she talks about how she's fearful of, you know, turning out to be a grocery store clerk and that's her life. And I thought that really probably tied into the end of the show where she basically refuses to go back.

[00:19:32] And I think I talked about that a few episodes ago on the podcast where Shauna has pretty much been living with the thoughts that she's never going back. Like for her, I don't think the real world existed anymore. She, you know, her friend died. You know, I'm sure she has a lot of guilt and blames herself for that. And then all the craziness that has happened. She almost kills Travis.

[00:20:02] They let Javi die. Now we have this thing with Coach, which she fully participated in. And I think for her, she just can't go back. She can't imagine going back and facing what, what is her life going to be like when she goes back? And, and, you know, are people going to find out about what's happened? So I think the episode is bookended by Shauna and Jackie's fantasy conversation.

[00:20:28] And then Shauna sitting back and saying, not only is she saying she's not going, she's saying no one's going. Do you think that grocery store dream was a dream that adult Shauna was having or a vision or a dream that young Shauna was having? Or was adult Shauna remembering a dream that teen Shauna had? I thought about that because it could have been either one of them.

[00:20:54] But I just think when young Shauna in the dream was talking, she was talking as if she didn't know what her life was going to end up like being. So I did think it was young Shauna or it could have easily been older Shauna remembering that that's what she thought. I mean, to me when they show, yeah, when they show a character, when they show a dream and then they show a character wake up from the dream, it seems like to me, it's that character

[00:21:24] having the dream. So I thought it was just older Shauna. And, you know, sometimes in dreams, you don't know things that you do know in real life often. So I just thought it was her feeling like it's a theme with her to feel like her life has not turned out very exciting. And that, you know, this killing and aggressiveness and, you know, different things. Part of that part of her seeking that stuff out is to feel alive again. Yeah.

[00:21:53] I mean, we've talked about it a lot. At the beginning of the series, adult Shauna is numbed out. Yeah. And we see her start coming to life as crazy shit starts happening. And, you know, Melissa, Calissa, whatever her name is, talks about it. You know, you stir the pot to feel alive. And I think that is true and is increasingly true as we've been watching the show. I think each season Shauna is more alive than the previous season. Yeah.

[00:22:21] And it's each of these levels. And I was thinking about the grocery store dream as adult Shauna being like, is the rest of my life? Like, I've already been boring and it didn't give me the safety I wanted. Am I going to just keep doing boring? Like questioning it to herself. Like, my life is basically this. I make meat all the time. And am I going to keep doing it? What I don't know is what the like, I guess they were giant sized yellow jackets represented.

[00:22:51] The ones in the light fixture. Oh, really? I thought it was moths. I thought they were moths. But then when she was in the hut talking to teen Melissa, she saw what looked to me like a giant yellow jacket. Oh, I thought that was a moth too. Maybe they're all moths. But why use moths as a metaphor when we already have yellow jacket wasps? Yeah, it was moths. I mean, in Silence of the Lambs, moths are like transformations, but it may be into something dark. So I thought it might have something to do with that.

[00:23:21] It's also death. It's also a symbol for death. And Jackie said something about, oh, they're attracted to the light, but that's a mistake or something, right? Yeah, you think they would know better. Yeah. And moths are attracted to the flame, which means they're attracted to danger. So I think, okay, now I get it. At least I have an idea. It fits in because if she's in her car with her knife getting ready to go in, but she's sat there all night long, right? So she's maybe considering whether she actually wants to do it.

[00:23:50] And then she has this dream about how her life is boring. And the thing that really lights her up is when she goes towards danger. And that's what these moths. So I don't know. Maybe that's a stretch. Maybe she's a moth. Yeah. There's so many. She's a rabbit. She's a moth. They're all yellow jackets. Or are they all frogs? Like there's a lot of animal comparisons. It's like a Disney movie, basically. And the other points I had about Shauna was it certainly seemed like she went into that house to kill Hannah's daughter.

[00:24:18] She didn't seem to expect Melissa to be there. And so was that it? Was she going to kill her? And she says one of the comments she makes to Melissa is that the only way to ensure that no one spills your secrets is to be the only one left. And I thought, well, what does that mean? Like she's going to kill Ty and Van and Misty and Walter. And does that include Jeff and Callie?

[00:24:46] Like, is that your goal to be the only person who knows? And then you're all alone. Well, she says that as if it's Melissa's motivation. But I think it's equally true of any one of the girls. All of them have that. My sense is she went in maybe not even knowing for sure what she was going to do. You know? Yeah. Feel out the situation. Maybe it would, you know, maybe she consciously acknowledged I might have to kill her, but I don't know. We'll see.

[00:25:13] And then, but she's very paranoid right now. Maybe, you know, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean it's not true. So I'm not saying that, but, but she is feeling paranoid about all these things that have happened with the phone in the bathroom and the brakes being cut and being locked in the freezer and, and she's also always paranoid about her secrets getting out. So, but I think one interesting thing about feeling like a victim, especially if you're super paranoid

[00:25:43] about it or feel really, there's a lot of emotion around it is victims can turn around and become perpetrators because they feel justified. And so I feel like that's kind of what happened here. She was saying to Melissa, you know, uh, I know you're, you're trying to kill us. You killed Lottie and you're trying to kill me because you're afraid of this getting out. And the only way to make sure it doesn't is if, uh, everybody else is gone.

[00:26:07] And then as she was saying that though, cause she was freaky and, uh, scary in that whole scene, I was thinking, Oh, maybe she's just now going to realize that for herself and, and decide, you know, to do something about it and kill Melissa. But I don't think that was her, why she was saying that consciously. I don't think she was relating to it for herself. And I don't think she's had any thoughts about killing like van or tire, any of the ones that she's gotten close to lately.

[00:26:36] I thought a lot about what maybe she was doing in the house and it, it was a weird time of day. If you were going to go in, like, why not go in when they're sleeping? If you're going to kill them, going in first thing in the morning like that. And could she not tell from the outside of the house that there was a child there? All of that is a little weird, but, um, she hid in that closet and I was like, maybe she's just doing recon.

[00:27:01] Like the smart thing to do, regardless of whether or not you're homicidal is to stake out your opponent. Right. So maybe she, her whole plan was to go in and just scope out the area and like, see what was what until she saw Melissa. But she's so triggered right now. She's, I think having some kind of an episode. So I don't think she's clear. She's thinking too. She's acting too. She's just acting. She's not thinking. Yeah. Yeah. And she's also acting.

[00:27:30] I think when we see Shauna have emotions when other people are around and like emotions cross her face, I'm always like, is that how you really feel? Is that a manipulation or? Yeah. What's happening actually? I think she was telling Melissa the truth about how she felt. Yeah. The only other thing I had is that young Melissa and Shauna, when they're talking at their,

[00:27:57] as they're packing up their belongings to leave and they're having that conversation, Melissa's pissed at Shauna because she feels like she didn't protect her and she's not showing that she really cares about her. And when Shauna was smoothing that over, I had such Jackie vibes out of that. Like I felt like it reminded me so, so, so much about how Jackie would hurt Shauna and

[00:28:26] say really mean things and barbs. And then she would smooth it all over in this Jackie way that she had. And when Shauna started talking, first of all, that's the most rational and kind we've seen Shauna, young Shauna all season. Like she has just been a terror all season. And that was the most kindness we've seen her give to anybody. And it felt like she was just mirroring Jackie. Yeah. And giving, it wasn't even that kind.

[00:28:55] It was, it reminded me of any usually male, female relationships that you see where the woman is upset because the man's been being a jerk or not paying attention to her or whatever. And so he'll do like the smallest thing possible to get, to make it okay. You know, minimal. It kind of felt like that. I think that's how Jackie treated her though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and even Jackie's compliments had little barbs in them.

[00:29:22] Her biggest compliment to Shauna was you're a good friend to me. And it was like that, that's, I mean, it sounds nice, but. You should be commended for treating me well. You are of good use. Yeah. You know, and Shauna definitely is treating Melissa as sort of a convenient object. And there was a very much of a there, there, now, be quiet. Yes.

[00:29:51] And now this is behind it. We're not, we're done talking about that, right? Like she's ready. She's done with the conversation. Yeah. And Melissa, her hat. Or so her mind trails off as she's talking. And Melissa's trying to tell her about her hopes and her feelings and the normal things that two people in a relationship do. Sure. And Shauna's like, this is not why you're in my life. You are just here to like. Yeah. Worship me. And it was a pretty upsetting scene. It is very Jackie-like. Yeah. Yeah. She's using her.

[00:30:21] Yeah. She's turned the tables. Well, I, my points are mostly fairly short too, except not the one about the conversation between Melissa and Shauna. It was just one. It was great. Do you mean adult Melissa and Shauna? Is that what you mean? Yeah. Yeah. And I, I want to go through that, but feel free to, of course, chime in. Yeah. I have some notes on that. Oh, many. Yeah.

[00:30:46] I was first off, just really excited to see a scene, an extended scene with these two amazing actors. Hillary Swank did not disappoint. I thought she was so good. And the way she was playing Melissa as very calm. Like if you were really scared enough of Shauna to change your name and she popped out of your

[00:31:10] pantry one day with a knife, you might be, but the way she says it is like, you don't know whose house you stumbled into that sort of reinforces that theme of the yellow jackets having been forged in the wilderness into dangerous women, you know? Yeah. But I agree with you that if she's truly scared of Shauna or even a little scared of Shauna, that calm demeanor actually freaked me out. Yeah. I thought it was a little serial killer. Yeah.

[00:31:39] Like there's more under the surface here than the normal boring life you're trying to portray. But at the same time as I thought, is it really believable? I also very much enjoyed it. I just liked the vibe that she was putting forth, you know? And it's just good to see her in something. She's come up for me kind of recently because her first big starring role was in the next Karate Kid, which is Karate Kid 4 from, I think, 1994. And we covered that on Cobra Kai cast, thinking that Hillary Swank might make an appearance in the final season of Cobra Kai.

[00:32:08] And she didn't end up showing up. That just wrapped like a month ago. But here she is. So I was glad to see her at least in something. It was kind of hard to see when she figured out that Shauna was in the pantry or closet. You know, I don't know if she figured it out before she even said goodbye to her wife. It could be. I don't think she knew it was Shauna. Or that somebody was in there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:32:37] But it was a good moment when she turned and looked because you see it from Shauna's point of view. And then all of a sudden she's looking in there at her. I love that. But we, we learn. So we learned she faked her death by leaving a suicide note, which is why everyone thinks she's dead. Changed her name to Kelly. And she did it because she said, you know, I did it after we moved back. I was no longer one of you and you scared the absolute fucking shit out of me.

[00:33:04] So she, for whatever reason that we haven't learned yet, felt that she was not, she was on the outs with the clique or something and felt unsafe, possibly threatened. I'm guessing maybe worried that one of them would kill her to prevent anyone from learning what they did. You know, that's a guess. But, um, at the end, Shauna's threatening to do just that almost or so, uh, so then we

[00:33:28] learned that she sought out Hannah's daughter, Alex, to try to make up for presumably what they did to her mom and ended up falling in love with her, starting a family. And then Hannah told, well, at some point Hannah told Melissa where to find the tape and begged her to give it to her daughter, Alex, even if she ever made it back home. But Melissa didn't want to implicate them and also didn't think it would be good to give that tape to Alex.

[00:33:55] And of course not like, oh, I have this tape of your mom dying, you know, or whatever is on there, like people dying. And I was there. How would that help? Yeah, I was there. And yeah, so this is just a stressful situation. You would think it would be a stressful situation for her to be in this life that she loves so much that could be threatened by this lie that she's told. Um, so she put it, the tape in the safe deposit box to use it as leverage in case any of them came looking for her.

[00:34:23] Um, but then when she heard that Lottie started this quote cult and Natalie died there, she started having nightmares and it sounds like hallucinations during the day too. Yeah. I mean, that seems like the standard yellow jackets, um, situation. They all have them now. Yep. So she sent the tape out to let it go as she was advised by her therapist, sent it to Shauna. She says so that maybe Shauna could do the same.

[00:34:52] She sent it with a note that Shauna never saw. I went back and watched that scene where Callie opens the envelope and she pulls the tape out and you can't see inside the envelope. So there totally could have been a note in there, but Jeff comes in and startles her. So you don't see. And then I think there was another scene with the tape at some point, but I couldn't find it. And then later when she gives the tape to Shauna, it's not with the envelope. So maybe Callie just threw the envelope away and didn't see the note or something. If there really was a note.

[00:35:21] I thought it was so weird that she wouldn't have kept the envelope. I mean, it had that weird symbol on it. Callie doesn't know what that symbol means. She definitely would have hung on to that. I, I think. Like, and I would have, if I were me, I would have opened the envelope and been like, is there anything else in there? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? It's possible there was no note and Melissa's full of shit. Exactly. Like, I don't know what to believe about that. I did think at the time, even when Callie did decide to give the tape, that she didn't say like, it came in this envelope. Like that, that was weird to me.

[00:35:51] It's still weird to me that she's been talking to Jeff about the tape and she hasn't been like, and I didn't tell mom, but there was this envelope that came with it that had this weird symbol on it. Melissa. Yeah. Wasn't Melissa dead? Like, yeah. It's just, I don't buy this. I needed to let it go. So I gave it to you. So you could let it go. Like, Shauna's right. How is it anything but a threat to send Shauna that tape? Yeah.

[00:36:19] Even with, if the note was in there, it's insane to be like, I've hidden for years successfully, but I'm going to send this tape out of nowhere to the one person I'm really afraid of. It's weird. Like, if you want to let go of the tape, burn the tape. Yeah. I'm kind of hoping that that's a lie and that there's something else going on because if it's the truth, it doesn't really make total sense. Yeah. We never know where they're leading us, but I think everything she's saying could be a lie.

[00:36:47] And I think she could be behind several of the things that Shauna thinks she is. And she's like, she's antagonizing Shauna. Somebody who has a knife on you that you know is capable of this and she's antagonizing her. Yeah. Yeah. It's very yellow jackets in this way where everything Shauna's paranoid about could be true or not similar to how things might be supernatural or not. You know, we don't know right now.

[00:37:16] Um, I really liked how scary and cold Shauna got as it went along, but at least that's my impression. When Melissa said, I know it doesn't matter to you, Shauna, but I have a good life. I have a decent job. I have a great kid. I go to church with a wife and a kid that love me. And Shauna goes, you're right. None of that matters to me. And, uh, then she accuses her of doing all those things that we've been talking about to make her feel crazy and try to kill her, leave the bathroom phone in the bathroom,

[00:37:46] locking her in the freezer, cutting her brakes. Um, she, Shauna said, I should have given you more credit, but we can all, we can make all the packs and vows of silence we want. But if you really think about it, the only way to truly be safe, to be 100% fucking certain that nobody's ever going to spill your darkest secrets is to be the only one left. And that's where I thought she, is she talking about Melissa or herself here? You know, I thought she was talking about herself, but, but it's all of them.

[00:38:14] It could be that she's worried that Melissa is that threat. Yeah. Yeah. And then she said, I'm not stupid. And Melissa goes, no, you're not. And she goes, and I'm not insane. And Melissa doesn't say anything to that. And she goes, I'm not insane. And that's sort of a theme of this episode. Like, is she insane? If so, how insane? And she said, I'm not saying you are, but I didn't do anything, anything of those things you said.

[00:38:41] Shauna goes, I don't believe you, which was creepy sitting there with a knife on the table. Um, cause at the moment I was believing Melissa, but as we talk about it, I'm doubting it more and more. Um, then Melissa says, my life is normal. It's boring. And that's exactly how I want it. And, uh, second watch through, I'm like, Oh, you're really not going to get your wish wish on that. Um, and then Shauna goes, you don't get to have a normal life.

[00:39:09] And I'm like, why, why are you like that? Why do you, why are you so aggressive about her not having a normal life? But then Melissa says, you know, just in just a couple of minutes, you hate yourself and you want everyone to feel as miserable as you do. And I'm thinking, um, that just sounds like something you would lash out and say, but with Shauna, maybe there's some truth to it. Like if she just is like, man, I'm really struggling in my life because of everything that happened in the wilderness.

[00:39:37] And it's not fair if the other yellow jackets just get to pretend it never happened and be fine. Right. Melissa cheated her way out of it. And then married somebody who would have never married her had she known who she was. Like that's a cheat. That's a big cheated life. And Shauna's right. And I'm not saying, you know, I'm not defending Shauna, but, but Shauna, the thing she says is right.

[00:40:07] But the things that Melissa says are right too. The scene was really hard to read. And I went the whole time. I was like, that sounds believable. That sounds believable. That sounds believable. That's great though. You know, and I went back and forth and by the end of the episode, I did not know which one of those women was less crazy than the other one. Yeah. You know, and one thing that didn't completely ring true for me, I do think that Shauna likes the action. It makes her feel alive.

[00:40:36] I think that part's true, but, and that she creates her own problems. But stirring the pot, I thought was an interesting thing to say because Shauna is very violently reactive. Usually someone pokes and then she's like, yeah, but she's not like out creating mischief. That's not really her way. Like Adam came to her. Yeah. The tape got sent to her. Yeah. And she reacts violently, but she's not a pot stirrer.

[00:41:04] And I was like, Melissa's maybe putting words in her head. And there was some point in that speech where Shauna's like facial expressions. Misty's a pot stirrer. Misty is a pot stirrer. There was a point in that scene where Shauna's facial expressions to me went from, yeah, you're making some good points to you're manipulating me. And I see now that you're going to try to get my knife from me. And that's what this is all about. Because when Shauna knew that was coming, she was 100% prepared for it. Yeah.

[00:41:32] In here, like up to this point, I'm thinking, I'm kind of believe in Melissa here and Shauna's looking kind of crazy. Although, as I said, as we're talking about it, I'm questioning all that. But Melissa at least seemed rational throughout up to this point. But then when she brings Callie into it, does she know what you're capable of? I'm like, that's not, you're just poking the bee's nest here.

[00:42:00] And then she said, you know, were your brakes cut or was your car just old? Did someone try to kill you? Or do walk-in freezers just have doors that don't stay open unless you prop them open? Shauna goes, no, that's, someone left a phone, a cell phone in the bathroom with a popular song as a ringtone. Wow. And she goes, fuck you. And then did someone murder Lottie or did she just struggle from a lifetime of mental health issues? This is what you do, Shauna. You create your own problems, et cetera, et cetera. And I'm like, yeah, I don't know if this is a good tactic. It's not.

[00:42:29] I mean, it was a dumb strategy to get her riled up like that. I mean, it was dramatic. It was really fun to watch and harrowing. But then, yeah, she goes to quote, get water and tries to grab the knife and Shauna pushes her down. And yeah, she's just, if she was already mad when she came in there, what everything that Melissa said just made it way worse. And so then Shauna pins her down, punches her in the face really hard a couple of times.

[00:42:58] Then Melissa got one in just so that we could see the drama of Shauna with a bloody nose and face. Oh, yeah. Great effect. Pins her down, then just bites into her bicep. Nice. I'm going to describe it in detail. A big hunk of flesh hanging from her teeth. And then she's got this bloody face. It felt like something out of Fight Club. Only even worse. Yeah, it did. And holds the flesh over her. Eat it.

[00:43:29] Eat it. And these are two middle-aged women. Love it. Yeah. And Melissa says, what the fuck? You really are insane. And then she goes, eat it or I'll tell your fucking family exactly who you really are. And it's just moving it closer to her face, fade to black. Wow. What a moment. I mean, I think that may be one of the most fucked up moments of this show for sure. Of any show. And I don't understand, though, what she's... Why? Why are you doing that? Like, what would it accomplish if she eats it?

[00:43:58] I don't get it. It felt only after my third watch. It felt like it was a callback to something. Oh, yeah. Like, Melissa made her so angry that she decided to do something specific. I think that this is an echo of something that we're going to see happen related to teen Melissa and Shauna in some way.

[00:44:23] And because otherwise, the leap to biting a piece of flesh off of a living human is yet another leap after cannibalism, I feel. Like, that's... Like, she bit Mari that one time. She didn't bite a part of Mari off. But I think that that was foreshadowing this moment. Like, Shauna's a biter. You know? Like, something's coming. I mean, she's savage. Yeah. Yeah. But what's her goal?

[00:44:49] I mean, or even if she doesn't have, like, a rational goal here... It's dominance. Is that it? It's power. But I also got the feeling it was trying to get Melissa to admit that she's full of it. That, like, her story is bullshit. And that's what Shauna wants in this moment. Like, to be in control, yes. Yeah. But also to get Melissa to stop pretending to be, like, all normal and rational and calm. We're not normal. This is what we do. Because that's infuriating her. The calm is making her extra mad.

[00:45:19] Yeah. And, yeah, one reason, too, why it's worse, or why in some ways it's worse than cannibalism the way they had done it is you're making you eat part of yourself. Yeah. Everything about it is a leap ahead. It's nasty. I... Right after I watched it, I texted the group, I think. Or maybe I just texted Wendy. What the actual fuck, Shauna?

[00:45:51] What the fuck doesn't cover it anymore? What the ever-loving fuck? Like, I kept giving up with, like, variations. There's not a lot of words for that. Fuckity fuck, fuck. Fuckity fuck, fuckity fuck. Fuck, fuck, fuck. Just so intense. The fight between them was brutal. Did Shauna, like, dislocate Melissa's shoulder? I couldn't tell exactly what happened. It seemed like it was some odd angle for a second there. I thought she stabbed her. Like, I thought she, like, stabbed her leg or something initially, but I could be wrong. I think she sat down.

[00:46:21] When Melissa went over to the sink to, like, fill the glasses with water or whatever, Shauna sat down. And I think that was a strategic move so that her hand would be out of sight under the table to do whatever it is she did. Because she came from below. I think she, at that moment, was like, oh, she's going to try to get my knife out of me. This is a move. I think they're going somewhere with Shauna that we don't fully have a handle on yet, but they know what it is. You know? That's interesting to me.

[00:46:50] I think no matter whether Melissa was lying about all of that, it's still a pretty fucked up thing to do to someone. Yeah. It was incredibly fucked up. But I'm just wondering if Melissa's even more fucked up and we haven't seen it yet. I hope so. Or differently fucked up. I know if she's actually, like, put it behind her and lived a semi-normal life, even though it's a lie, I'm going to be kind of annoyed. I have a little note about that.

[00:47:16] I just thought that, again, they all know a huge secret about Melissa, right? Mm-hmm. If they knew she was alive, they have this power over her in that her wife doesn't know who she is. Right. And that would probably break up her marriage and family, I would think. Yeah. And yet, she sends the tape to Shauna.

[00:47:41] And she talks about how afraid she has been, you know, of them and what they would do. But then she invites them into her life. Why would you do that? And she says that she kept the tape in case any of them came after her as leverage. But that makes no sense. And also, she knows how paranoid they are and how afraid they are of being fined out. That's why they made the packs.

[00:48:10] That's why they made these vows of silence. And yet, she tells her offhandedly that she's telling her quasi-therapist, who's unlicensed, everything about them. Hmm. I really felt like, just like Ty, just like Shauna, Melissa is purposefully blowing up her life. Yeah. Hmm. And I don't know why. Yeah. That could be. Self-sabotage.

[00:48:36] I also find it really suspicious how much she knew about what happened at Lottie's compound. Yes. Yes. There's more to this story. And I was like, is she connected to Walter in some way? Like, we still don't really know where Walter came from. He just like came from the internet or whatever. And is she connected to Walter? Is she connected to Lottie's cult in some other way? Like, she knew a lot about what was going on. She also apparently was at the funeral or near the funeral.

[00:49:06] She was watching them at that restaurant. Remember when Shauna thought someone was watching her? And she did like, you know, leave a tape at the house. If she wanted to not freak someone, you don't leave something at someone's doorstep unless you want them to know that you were there. At their house. You know what I mean? Like, she was watching Shauna's family from outside the window when she left that tape there. That's creepy as fuck. Oh, yeah. That's true. Wait, she was at the funeral? Well, she was. Remember when they went out for drinks?

[00:49:36] Not at Nat's funeral. Afterward, they were like the three. Or Nattie's, yeah. Yeah, they were sitting around. Missy wasn't there. Missy wasn't there. And Shauna kept being like, she thought somebody was watching her. Oh, okay. And I think it was Melissa. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think we have enough evidence. And it could be several people.

[00:49:56] But I think we have some decent gut hunches that Melissa is more than the innocent bystander who's just lived her life simply all these years. Yeah. See, this is really interesting because it very much, I feel like, parallels with Shauna killing Adam. Mm-hmm. Right?

[00:50:16] She saw the Yellow Jackets magazine in his drawer and Callie had mentioned that there was no record of him going to the art school that he said he went to or something like that. So there was doubt planted in Shauna's mind. And then when she got really anxious about that, she lashed out and killed him and then did the extra vicious step of gutting him all the way up.

[00:50:41] And that just felt like some kind of episode that she had. And here it's kind of similar. She's paranoid. And like I said, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean it's not true about all these things she thinks Melissa did and just seems like having an episode and bites her arm.

[00:51:03] In Adam's case, we still don't know for sure whether she had reason to be, whether he actually was who he said he was. But I lean towards, yes, he was and that she was wrong about all that. I don't know, though. There's tattoos on his back. We don't know for sure. But it would be interesting if Adam was innocent, but Melissa's not, you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. All right. Your turn, Penny.

[00:51:30] On a lighter note, I wanted to spend a few minutes with Apple and the goat over at the Jolly Hitcher Hotel, where they are having a father-daughter dinner. And the Jolls are there. And that whole waving him over thing. And she's like, why do you have to go over there? And he's like, some people are wavers and some people go where they're waived. That whole scene was hilarious. And then furniturefam.net. Like, that's not a different direction. That's a worse direction.

[00:52:00] Like, all the drama going on in Jeff's business life right now and how he still wants to get this deal. Like, he's so dedicated to it. And then, you know, he and Callie have that message where they don't – neither of them think that anyone's after Shauna. And, you know, I love Callie leaving a message for Shauna. I think you're breaking, Dad. And then she goes in the room and Jeff is all like, ah! Like, crawling – like, rolling around in the bed. Like, clearly having a breakdown. Yeah, that was so funny. And she's like, you need to pull your stuff together, Dad, or whatever.

[00:52:29] And they decide to leave the hotel. And as they're leaving, first, Jeff gets to have, like, cute chit-chat with the hotel clerk. It was just, I guess, to show us once again, like, Jeff is, as he later says, affable. And then he sees the Jules and he confronts them. And it's this amazing moment where he's like – he says, you know, he says, like, Shauna's crazy. Lots of people don't like things because of Shauna. I'm not her. I'm the reason most people like anything. I'm affable.

[00:52:59] Don't give up on me, guys. Haven't you ever fallen in love with an unhinged woman? Or has every woman you've ever loved been fucking boring? Anyway, come on, Callie, let's go. I'm the best man for this job and I wanted you to know that. And I just loved Jeff having his moment. And, like, it was his, you know, pretty woman goes into the Rodeo Drive store and tells them they've made a huge mistake. It was, like, that same feeling of satisfaction of, like, you know, you're making a huge mistake.

[00:53:26] And my wife is awesome because she is crazy. And, like, fuck you. And, like, that they had the nerve to imply that he was, you know, having sex with Callie. And he's like, that's my daughter. And, like, I just – I loved every moment with Jeff. I think he's our person to root for. Yeah. And I loved in that whole thing how he, like, said a lot of truths, a lot of hard truths about Shauna. And I think he's always known those hard truths.

[00:53:56] But at the same time, he's like, but she's not fucking boring. Yeah. And he's like – he has never, ever backed down on being in love with her. Right? Every chance he gets, he's like, Shauna, I love you. Shauna, I'm with you. I'm with you, Shauna. Like, I know my wife is crazy. I love her anyway. Like, boom. He's there. I didn't quite see it that way. I think he's kind of having a breakdown. He's very distressed. He's screaming into a pillow.

[00:54:24] He's – I think he's at the end of his rope with her, with Shauna. And Callie's there, too. And they're both sort of checking in with each other like, oh, maybe mom – maybe she's not actually – she's making all this up, you know? And maybe – they're not saying it, but maybe we should question her sanity, you know? And then when Jeff said – no, somebody said something like, Lottie dying, that has nothing to do with us.

[00:54:53] I think Callie said that. Yeah, Callie. And Jeff's like, you're right. Go pack up your stuff. Let's go home. They're both sort of – they're both sort of maybe realizing, you know what? I don't know if any of this is true or if it's all in mom's head and she's got us all wrapped up in this and we need to just go get out of that and do our own thing. So I think they're kind of losing faith in her a little bit.

[00:55:22] And then when he talks to the Joels and he's saying, hey, that was my wife. It's not me. It's because he's sort of realizing, oh, my gosh, she might be kind of crazy right now and she messed up this big deal I was maybe going to get. And so I think when he first started talking to them, I actually didn't like the way he was talking about her.

[00:55:46] He says she's the fucking reason most people don't fucking like anything because she's miserable, but I'm not her. It's kind of disrespectful. And if the point was to say she's kind of crazy but I love her, then maybe. But I felt like he kind of didn't get to that until the end where he said, have you ever fallen in love with an unhinged woman and then decided to tack on or has every woman you've been with fucking boring?

[00:56:15] So I could be wrong, but to me it felt like he's kind of just all over the place. I agree he is all over the place. And I think he's more talking to himself than anybody else. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now I'm seeing it differently. And he didn't say, haven't you ever been in love with an unhinged woman, fallen in love with an unhinged woman?

[00:56:40] It's a little bit more past tense as if, and now I'm stuck in this mess, but not currently. But just last season, last episode, he was like, you're the love of my life, Shauna. Yeah. And just last season, or maybe the season before that, he found out she murdered a guy and volunteered to go to jail for her. Yeah. Or killed a guy, I should say. Yeah. So he's been through a lot.

[00:57:04] But maybe I'm just thinking, okay, after that happened and now she's got you sequestered in this hotel and you're starting to think maybe it's all for nothing. Then he's, you know, just, I don't know if he's like ready to ditch her or anything. Yeah. I think he still loves her. Yeah, me too. But he's just like, I don't think we should just go along with her. Now she's off doing something secret that she won't tell us about that could be dangerous. You know, because when he's on the phone with Misty, he's like, what has Shauna done now?

[00:57:32] And I think the only person that would steer Jeff away from completely doing whatever Shauna tells him to do is his daughter, right? It's like the only person he loves more than Shauna or at least as much as Shauna. Yeah. And her being like, dad, I need you to pull it together was when he sort of pivoted. She kind of saved him though, because I think he was really falling apart. Like that was his beginning of his downward spiral that we were going to see.

[00:58:02] And Callie was like, I can't let this happen. And that was a good scene. They're a good team. They're good scene partners. Yeah. They're cute together. We've seen a lot with just them too, but it was great. Yeah. They're great together. And I just enjoy whenever he disses on the hotel and what a shit box it is. I think that's funny. Who gets called over and who goes over. Yeah.

[00:58:30] You just look like so deflated, but resigned at the same time. Yeah. And I'm really invested in what happens with the Joels. We have to have a conclusion to that by the end of the season. Yeah. Will Jeff get the Joels business? I don't know. The way he was describing it to Callie and he had the napkin over his face and he's like, they're not actually both named Joel, but. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it was just adorable.

[00:58:59] And it was such a nice moment of levity compared to the lunacy that we saw happening with the other adult timelines like Shauna and Melissa and then the stuff at the hospital. So fucking dark. Yeah. And that was a challenging scene because he really is like, even in that little moment, he's embarrassed, trying not to be seen. As soon as he notices they see him, he shifts right away to, well, I'm going to try to get their business then.

[00:59:27] And he's just, like I said, all over the place, but like a man who's unmoored. Got a lot going on. Yeah. Okay. Wendy. I feel like I don't have any other big points, but I'll talk a little bit on Travis. I feel like Travis kind of woke up in the last two episodes and I like that. I love Travis's character and I've missed him this season.

[00:59:53] It feels like we, you know, he was just kind of stoned in the background for most of this season. He's back to his old self here, feeling that spark again. Yeah. Yeah. And he was totally going to just keep going with Akilah and Cody. He was going to leave them all. And I think he has sobered up and he has realized that Lottie has led them down the wrong path and that she's unwell.

[01:00:23] And he was just going to go. Like, why would he do that? I think he has a level of distrust for everything that's happening back there. And although he still cares about a lot of them, I feel like him and Akilah have really come to care about each other. And he was trying to help Akilah, but he was just going to leave them. And then when he gets. He said he was send people back. Well, yeah, that's not.

[01:00:52] I mean, where are they? Where are you going to send people to? So, well, he I mean, I think that was his intention. I'm sure he would have told people that they were lost. He's got a guide who knows where they were with him. And just the fact that you have this guy who's like, hey, I was with all of them and they're here in that direction. Then that's going to help. I mean, but you're a mile or two away at the most. The betrayal. Right. Yeah.

[01:01:19] I'm having to figure out like Travis just fucking left. Yeah. Like without us. I think I think my guess as to why he did that is because he's like, I've got a bird in the hand right here and it's a big one. And if I do anything other than get the fuck out of here as quick as possible and try to send help back, I'm going to risk that we won't go back. And look what happened. Yeah. Oh, no. I think he's right. He's like, oh, for all I know, if I go back to camp with this guy a lot, he's going

[01:01:48] to fucking kill him. Right. Like, yeah, he's not completely wrong. But the betrayal. I don't see it as a betrayal. Oh, I understand. It is a betrayal, but I understand why. It's a very understandable. I think he's doing what he thinks is best to get everyone saved. His best chance. Yeah. It's still a betrayal, though. Yeah. I don't think it's the best chance. I don't buy that either. Yeah. It's hard. It's hard. Well, given what happens, that they're going to be forced to stay there and probably Cody's

[01:02:18] going to be killed and so is Hannah. I think it probably would have been better for everyone if he would have made it out. Yes. But I don't think them leaving together, Akilah, Travis, and Cody would have necessarily meant that the others would have been saved. I'm just saying it was probably the best chance, and I think that's what he was thinking. I don't think he was thinking, fuck those guys. I was thinking. Oh, I think he was thinking a little fuck those guys.

[01:02:45] I need to take advantage of this while we still have the opportunity or else it might slip away. Yeah. And I think regardless of what his intention was, the impact on the others left behind would have been brutal when they figured out what happened. I'm not saying that he was wrong. I'm not saying he was wrong because what I'm saying is that I think he did that because he's losing faith and trust in everybody else. Yeah.

[01:03:15] That's why I think he did that. Rightly so. Yes. Yeah. I mean, if I was back at the camp and I was one of the people who was like, God, it's getting really crazy around here. And Lottie just killed a guy and I really would like to go home. And I found out that Travis had a chance to go home and send help back. But instead, he took this guy back to our camp where Lottie's probably going to kill him. I'd be like, what the fuck, man? Why didn't you go and you had the chance? I would consider that a betrayal. I don't know.

[01:03:42] If I was a left behind, I'd be like, you know, you left with a mess. I mean, look what happened in Alive. They sent two guys out to get help and send them back. Yeah. But they all agreed on it. Still, it was what worked. Yeah. And they did originally the, you know, they tried to send a small group out in season one and it ended in disaster. Why they never tried it again is beyond me. Now they have a guy. Yeah, they should have. Yeah.

[01:04:08] And I think it's obvious that he, you know, is trying to dissuade Akilah from believing in Lottie, but it wasn't landing with Akilah. Yeah. I loved it. He was like, hey, that's nothing. It's just made up. It doesn't mean anything, whatever he said. And I was like, yeah, that's what I think. So it was gratifying to hear him say that.

[01:04:36] But also I'm like, you can't easily talk people out of their beliefs, especially if you're just saying, hey, you're wrong. That's not going to work. Yeah. They're in a cult, right? And it's multilayered and complicated. And Akilah had already decided her course of action. She was leaving that trail and stalling and the whole thing. And I thought it was so smart of Trav. One thing he did that was smart is when the Yellow Jackets all came out of the woods from

[01:05:06] all different directions, like it's a horror movie or something. That's great. And Cody immediately figures out that Akilah somehow enabled that. So then he looks over at Travis like, you going to help me out here? And Travis thought for like a half a second. He's like, nope. Yeah. He raises his... And Akilah covered for him. Yeah. That was cute, actually. Their relationship is really growing on me. I never thought I would want Travis to be with anyone but Nat.

[01:05:35] But seeing him and Akilah together, I'm like, yeah, protect each other. Like, that's nice. Yeah. Lottie's using you and she's crazy. Yeah. And they're afraid of each other. They're afraid of the group. Yeah. Everyone is afraid of each other. And they, yeah, they're all terrifying people. Yeah. Yeah. It's not fun to be in a group where you're afraid. You're afraid of the people in the group. Yeah. Okay.

[01:06:05] I want to do one on trauma-induced disorders. So, you know, Callie and Jeff are questioning Shauna's sanity. Callie said, look, I don't know what mom or any of them did to survive, but I think that it messed them up. Like, really messed them up and way more than we thought. And Jeff tells the Joles she hasn't been clinically diagnosed as a, quote, fucking crazy person. But for all intents and purposes, she is.

[01:06:34] And that just got me thinking how we thought maybe Lottie was schizophrenic. Did they ever say the word schizophrenic? Schizophrenic? No. We got that from the medication she was on. Yeah. She's on a medication that is generally given to schizophrenics. And it does seem. Seems like it, right? Yes. Or something similar. Yeah. And I was thinking, oh, maybe they all have conditions. So, I came up with possible hypothetical diagnoses for them.

[01:07:03] It's just fiction. So, hopefully that's okay with people. But Lottie has schizophrenia. So, she has visions, belief in supernatural forces, hearing voices. It just suggests a disconnect from reality that escalates post-crash. Ty, dissociative identity disorder, where she has this alter ego.

[01:07:27] Misty, sociopathy, where she seems to have a lack of empathy sometimes and manipulative and controlling. Nat, I don't know if this is a disorder, but addiction. Is that a disorder? It's a medical diagnosis. Van, I'm not sure. She seems actually maybe a little more well-adjusted to me, but PTSD.

[01:07:55] Shauna was harder, but I looked up. There's this thing called intermittent explosive disorder, or IED, which is about sudden intense outbursts of anger or aggression that are disproportionate to the situation. So, like biting off Melissa's arm or a piece of it, I mean. Not the whole arm. Or, you know, with Adam and everything. That would take a while.

[01:08:19] There could also be some paranoid personality disorder, chronic distrust, and seeing threats where there aren't any. And then I'm like, okay, are these conditions or are they just what happens when humans are pushed past their limits or like a trauma response or maybe a little bit of both? I think if you're predisposed to something like this, then trauma can trigger it. So, we know Lottie already had something going on as a kid, but maybe not full-blown, you know.

[01:08:46] And she was already on meds too, so we don't know. Ty could be predisposed to compartmentalizing things, like needing to be perfect on the soccer team and in her life. So, repressing the other parts of herself that come out as altered. I don't know if that's actually how that works. But Misty, we saw as a kid, didn't fit in and was bullied and watched that, I think, mouse or whatever it was, die in the pool dispassionately.

[01:09:12] But it doesn't mean that she would grow up and be the kind of person who would kill somebody. Nat maybe already had an addictive personality, kind of a reckless streak and emotional reliance on escapes, like rock music or rebellion or something. Sean, I think, did have suppressed rage before any of this happens.

[01:09:37] So, maybe all this stuff is just like disorders or afflictions brought on by trauma response. But I think just when you start thinking about it, it's interesting how each one has kind of a different thing going on that you could map to a psychological disorder. And I think also it makes sense that they haven't seemed to have had healthy relationships because it's really hard when you have a lot of trauma and it comes out in different ways. You have demons.

[01:10:02] And I think it wouldn't have felt real if Walter and Misty just had a nice relationship, you know. And Jeff, really, of all of them, Jeff, well, maybe now Nat and, I mean, not Nat, Van and Ty are doing okay, but not really. But it makes Jeff. That is dysfunctional. Yeah, okay, very dysfunctional. And Jeff is even more admirable because he just absorbs everything from Shauna and I'm sure it's not easy.

[01:10:29] Yeah, I think it's also sort of a cautionary tale of what happens when you decide to just repress your trauma. I mean, it's not like any of them came back from the wilderness being like, I'm sure that didn't fuck me up. I'm fine. Like, they knew they were fucked up and they were like, nobody talk about it. Everybody keep it a secret. Don't even talk to each other. You know, pretend it didn't happen. Whatever it is. And it's just simmering below the surface this whole time.

[01:10:57] And it only took a couple of, you know, nudges for them to start falling apart completely. Yeah. You sort of wonder, because I think maybe Lottie was the most mentally the worst off when she got back. I guess we don't really know, but she didn't look good when we saw her coming off the plane. And then we know she went right into a mental institution, right? Right. And then she ends up this wellness guru.

[01:11:25] And here in this episode, I wasn't going to talk about this here, but it's kind of fitting in where she doesn't want to go back home. Right. And she's like, I'm not going to be well there. And I just think that's because as a possible schizophrenic, you don't, you make these connections that don't line up with reality. But out in the wilderness, there's way less of a structure of reality. And so she's made these connections and she's even drawn other people into it about what it wants and all these things. And so she feels more at home here.

[01:11:55] And if she goes back to civilization, her reality is just going to be at odds with everything around her. And I went back to Lottie's speech, adult Lottie, when we first saw her talking to her intentional community. And she said to just show how she tried to deal with that when she did get back. And she's telling them, the truth is nobody can help you. I certainly can't. There's only one person who can really give you what you're looking for. You, your truest, most authentic self.

[01:12:25] That's why you're here. So I can introduce you right now. There's a version of you that knows exactly who you really are and what you really want. A primal elemental self. And there's nothing more painful than hiding that self. We want to blame the world for our pain. The parent who didn't support us, the lover who didn't love us back. But the truth is we're the ones making ourselves sick and the rest of it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because it isn't real. It isn't real. So I think her way of existing in this world that contradicted her own reality is to say, my reality is real.

[01:12:55] And that's the most important thing to me, even if it doesn't line up with the outside world. And to sort of reinforce that, she created her own community out in the wilderness, kind of like where she felt at home. And she could kind of shape that more around what her reality is and feel comfortable there, you know? Yeah. I wonder if she was taking her medication when, as an adult, in her intentional community. I think we saw her take some, didn't we?

[01:13:23] We saw her go to therapy, but then it turned out that this therapist wasn't at therapy. That's what I wonder. I wonder if she was manic and that's what caused her to escalate. Typically, I mean, I think she wants to stay in her unmedicated state. And that's basically what she says is that she wasn't her when she was at home under her parents' thumb, seeing three therapists and being medicated. She didn't feel like she was her.

[01:13:51] And that is a frequent complaint that people make on medication for schizophrenia, is that they don't like themselves. They don't feel alive on their medications. And I'm certainly generalizing. Yeah. But I know that's a thing of why people stop taking their medication. To have to make where you're dulled down or you feel crazy. Right.

[01:14:19] Because it's not, there aren't great medications for those kind of illnesses. They come with lots of side effects that change your life and make you sicker in many ways. Yeah. And they, yeah, they deaden your emotions. And usually they kill your ability to have sex. They make women infertile. There's all these problems with them. Right. They give you tardive dyskinesia, which can make you have uncontrollable movements for the rest of your life.

[01:14:49] But then I was living with, in college, one of my roommates. It's, he had schizophrenia. It was, I didn't know because it comes out in active phases, but it can just be passive. And so I think it was triggered because he used to smoke pot all the time and he would do LSD sometimes. And all of a sudden he was in this active phase where he was just constantly hallucinating that we were talking to him on the radio, that Jay Leno was telling him things.

[01:15:18] We walked down the beach and we saw a beached seal and he thought that our roommate Ken killed it and dragged it up there just to fuck with him, you know? And I'm just like, oh my God, this poor guy. What can he do, you know? It's a horrible disease because being medicated makes a lot of people miserable.

[01:15:39] And so a lot of people with schizophrenia spend their lives in this cycle of getting medicated enough where they're like, I think I can get by without the medication. Or I hate the side effects so much, I'm going to live without it. And then they get slowly and slowly worse to the point where they end up getting involuntarily hospitalized and involuntarily medicated. And then they get stable again and then they start the cycle all over again. And it is tragic. And we don't have a good way in our society to help these people.

[01:16:09] No. And then they usually end up with addiction and homelessness as a symptom of their disease. Yeah. And all of this, like when Lottie says, no, I don't want to go back, you know, I think my first reaction is like, oh, come on, Lottie. But now as we're talking about it, I'm like, I totally understand her. She's free in the wilderness. And it's a relief to her.

[01:16:38] And, you know, the only reason that adult Lottie wasn't homeless and destitute and in dire straits is money. Right? Like wealthy families can afford to take care of people better than, you know, the state only does what they absolutely have to do to intervene to keep you from killing yourself or someone else. And beyond that, you're kind of on your own. That's why they end up on the street. There's nowhere for them to go. I mean, they don't even do that. Yeah. They'll do that for three days and then you're out. Yeah, that's true. It's very short lived.

[01:17:08] Yeah. Money changes a lot of things. Yeah. It's amazing what you can do with money. Yep. Penny? I want to talk about music because in this episode there was some really fun musical cues. When the girls are all starting to, like, visualize what it would mean to go home, we get this great song, All Right by Supergrass. And the lyrics are really fun. I'll just read a little bit of them. We are young.

[01:17:38] We run green. Keep our teeth nice and clean. See our friends. See the sights. Feel all right. We wake up. We go out. Smoke a fag. Put it out. See our friends. See the sights. Feel all right. And that's cigarette fag, not the slur fag. And it was such a happy scene and it starts with, like, Mari. First they're burying Edwin, but then Mari has a Slurpee in her hand and she's so happy to drink Slurpee.

[01:18:03] And then Misty discovering, like, soft, plush toilet paper and she's, like, rubbing it on her face. Like, ah. And then Van, like, cavorting in this pile of, like, pristine white feather bed and pillows. Yeah. But it was exactly the kind of fantasies I would have if I had been stuck in the woods for over a year. And, you know. It's so great. It's, like, really imaginative and creative. And you might think, like, try to think too hard about it. Wait, are they hallucinating? What's going on? It's like, no, it's just a vibe. Who cares? It's so happy.

[01:18:33] Yeah. I love it. Yeah. They're so happy. And then later we get another great moment. Right after Jeff and Callie decide to leave the hotel, the music starts and it's Wonderwall by Oasis. And we dissolve into the girls prepping. Melissa is telling Jen about all the food she wants to eat and dipping fries into a milkshake and all this stuff. And the lyrics in the background are maybe you're the one that's going to save me. And we see Akilah at the stream smiling, getting water. And they all seem really happy about what's going to happen.

[01:19:01] And then, of course, it sort of breaks when Akilah gets to the animal pen and has that vision of all the animals being dead and everything. But up until that moment, it's really happy. And I was like, oh, what a perfect song for this moment. Yeah. It was really devastating the same way it was for Akilah to have the mood flip on screen like that. What was that all about? I didn't understand why that happened. It was like a death omen. Like something bad is going to happen. Something bad is coming. So maybe it was similar. Yeah.

[01:19:31] Like they're just getting these like Shauna saw the moth or whatever that was. And Akilah saw the dead animals. So that's just a manifestation of them getting a bad feeling about going. And they're like, yeah, this doesn't feel right. Something doesn't feel right. And with Ty, we saw her. First, she goes to Van and she has that conversation that really upset me where she's like, I don't think we can be together back in the real world.

[01:19:57] Like I understand homophobia in the 90s was higher than it is now maybe. But it was. What a cowardly thing to focus on in that moment. Like it just. She's worried. Yeah. But I don't know. It bothered me. And then she turned into dark tie. Yeah. And I'm like, is she still dark tie at the end when she refuses to leave? I kind of think so. I think so. I think she's also worried about what they've done. Yeah. She's worried about the consequences. I don't think it's just about. No.

[01:20:27] Being openly gay. Yeah. But I do think that's part of it. And that's what she started with. Right. Yeah. She's like, we can't be together. And also, you know, Van's right. All being rescued outweighs all that stuff. Yeah. I love Nat's response to her worrying about how they're going to be together gay. She's just like, it'll be fine. I don't care. You know, just like, shut up. Van. Yeah. Van. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. Ty asks her how she can be so sure. And Van goes, because of me. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:20:56] That was perfect. And, you know, fast forward 25 years and Van is right to be annoyed with Ty for leaving her because she didn't want to be in a gay relationship and then ending up in a gay relationship anyway. Like, I can understand Van's anger there of being like, you weren't, you know, you were too good to be with me because you wanted to pretend to be straight. And then look at you. Now you're a power lesbian. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, now that you mention it, that in that context, it does make me feel annoyed

[01:21:25] at Ty for worrying about it because we know that she went back and tried to pretend that she wasn't gay for a while. Yeah. I don't, I just, it made me unhappy. And I like Van so much that I was like, don't, don't say that to Van. She's, you know, defied death so many times. Um, uh, but the music was fantastic. Then there was this, the last music that came on after the horrible scene that I don't like, uh, talking about was Dig Me Out by Slater Kinney.

[01:21:51] And the sort of, the very, I just, you know, the final lyrics are, I wear your rings and sores in me, in me it shows. Oh God, let me in. There's nowhere else to go. Oh God, let me in and let me go, go, go. Dig me out, dig me in. Out of this mess, baby, out of my head. Dig me out, dig me in, out of my body, out of my skin. And I don't know if I know how to interpret that in relation to everything we just saw,

[01:22:16] but it definitely has something to do with like, I, I can't leave the past. You can't leave the past behind you. It's part of your body now. And like, it's in me and it'll always be in me. I wish I could dig it out. That's what I got out of it. That's great. That's, that's really good for a scene about biting. Yeah. That song. Yeah. Slater Kinney's kick ass. And if you, anyone listening to this, if you don't know them, I recommend checking them out.

[01:22:47] Powerful. I also liked that, uh, it was a shout out just in general to Slater Kinney because, uh, earlier in the season, Ty or last season, Ty had said to Van that half of your wardrobe is Slater Kinney t-shirts. Okay. Do you have any more, Wendy? Um, I'll talk a little bit about Hannah and Cody.

[01:23:10] I just thought that they, they are literally talking about killing them in front of them. Like, this is not a good poker move. Um, and they make them bury Edwin, which I think is kind of fucked up. Like you killed him and now go bury him. Yeah. I mean, that was kind of like, yeah, they're not making people dig their own graves. They're like, okay.

[01:23:37] So I can understand being like, Hey, it's a risk leaving these people alive because they saw what we did, but they're not, they're treating them as almost subhuman. Like that's those two things don't have to go together. Yeah. And maybe you should say that privately and not in front of them. Like, if I'm Cody or Hannah, I pretty much figure my only hope is escape. Yeah. Like, I can't go along with them. Like, I'm going to pretend to go along with them.

[01:24:07] Yeah, of course. But they're going to kill us as soon as they don't need us anymore. Mm-hmm. Um, and I thought Shauna like just dumps on Hannah because no one has rescued them yet. Like, what state are you in where you're blaming Hannah for not being rescued? Yeah. Yeah. It's a kill the messenger moment, right? Yeah. Like Hannah represents all the outsiders. Yeah. All civilization.

[01:24:34] And mad because she doesn't know where she is. I mean, no recognition about what they just did. They're so far gone. Mm-hmm. They didn't even bother to be like, you know, Lottie's particularly crazy. She's – the rest of us aren't as crazy as Lottie. So we won't kill you. Like, we'll keep Lottie away from you. None of that. They didn't try any of that stuff. They just tied them up and then talked about them right in front of their faces. And Nat did try it a little bit initially.

[01:25:04] But then like they're pointing guns at them and threatening them. Like they as a group are very far gone. Mm-hmm. In the – and even Ty says we're going to have to kill them as if like there's no other choices. Yeah. Yeah. So I just thought if I'm Hannah or Cody, I'm waiting for my chance to escape. And I'm – I figure that's going to – maybe not Hannah, but Cody's going to try to escape.

[01:25:33] Like I feel like that's coming up. Yeah. There's going to be some good, fun drama action there with Cody. Yeah. Hannah is afraid and she might think that maybe I can win them over or make them trust me. But I don't think Cody's going for that. Cody figures he's got to get out. She even was starting. She was like, oh, you guys built all this? It's impressive. And I was like, they – good try. Like that's cute. But – yeah.

[01:26:02] Like Shauna's like three seconds away from killing you. That's not going to do it. And Tyisa in all of that says this will follow us for the rest of our fucking lives, what they've done and what's happened out there. That's what she's worried about. Yeah. Yeah. And she's not wrong. We've seen that that's exactly what's happened. Yeah. I thought it was – it made sense that Misty's the one who first starts thinking, what if Hannah and Cody tell people what they've seen here?

[01:26:31] Because she's the one who always thinks ahead about things like that. Yeah. Strategic. Yeah. And then Hannah said, we'll say whatever you want us to say. And Misty's like, well, we can't guarantee that, can we? And she goes, I swear to God. And Shauna goes, that means nothing out here. And I thought that was an interesting way to phrase that because she could have said like, well, we don't have any reason to believe you. But saying I swear to God means nothing out here sounds kind of like she's saying God isn't out here.

[01:27:00] We have our own thing. But also, if you want them to lead you out of the wilderness and not try to kill you, then you should at least pretend like you're not going to kill them. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think mostly they probably didn't write it that way because it would be confusing to some viewers. Like, do they really mean that or not?

[01:27:28] And it's just more dramatic to just have them be like, I don't give a fuck. You know, it's more fun to watch, I guess. I mean, maybe. They could have had a private conversation, which I feel like would have been smarter. But I think it is a testament to how far gone they are. Yeah. I mean, Ty went off and talked to Van far away from everyone else. She wasn't having that conversation in front of them. But yeah, Misty is the one who was like, what are we going to do about those people like five feet away from me? Like, this shit is just...

[01:27:57] We can't trust them. Should we kill them now or... Yeah. That's true. Yeah. That's uncharacteristically not smart of Misty, honestly. Yeah. Yeah. Like, she just bursts out with it. And then they're having the conversation. And Nat is the one who's like, we have plenty of time to talk about all that. Let's get moving. And I think that was in part, I want to get going and go home. And in part, like, you guys cannot talk about this stuff right in front of these people's faces. Yeah. Just like, oh, come once we get home. Okay, we're almost there. Then we'll kill them.

[01:28:27] Just chill the fuck. It's like Misty not being able to wait until Shauna was not driving the car to have that text chat with Ty and Van. Right? She didn't even wait three seconds when Shauna's driving. And she just has no chill sometimes. She's just like, I got to do the thing right now. That came up at work this week. Somebody was talking about that. And I was so, like, reminded by Yellow Jackets. But nobody's watching that at work. So I couldn't talk about it. Oh, that's frustrating. Well, you couldn't talk about it anyway because you're ahead of everyone.

[01:28:57] Right. Cody says it'll take six days to get to the rescue point. And given the terrain, presumed access to food along the way, which I presume they will have, and the idea that they've kind of been toughened and have adapted to the wilderness. I entered all that into chat GPT and the location. And it estimated that means the rescue point could be up to 60 to 100 miles away. That's a long way to hike for frogs.

[01:29:27] I'm just saying. Yeah. I don't even know if it's right either, but that's what I said. That's the only place you can find the screeching Arctic frog. That's right. That's dedication to some weird, obscure science there. Okay. My next one is Shauna and meat.

[01:29:45] So she has this daydream where she's at the grocery store as a checkout girl, mindlessly swiping packages of meat over the counter that are they revealed right away to be like body parts or did they kind of morph into that? They morph. For sure. Yeah. It's subtle. You saw them just doing some generic packages. Yeah. It was just steak. Pork or whatever. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And Jackie mocking her for having had potential but nothing to show for it.

[01:30:12] And I think her story in particular often has meat. She's the butcher of the group. You know, she's always the one carving up the bodies. Well, not always, but most of the time. Um, she ate Jackie's ear, which was kind of the precursor to the whole cannibalism thing. Um, she's the first one to take a bite out of Jackie when they sit down to that meal.

[01:30:38] She hallucinates the other girls eating her baby in the adult timeline. She killed the rabbit in the garden. Yep. Cooked it up. She's the one they had chop up Adam's body. Uh, in season two at, um, Lottie's intentional community. She had to take care of that. Was it a lamb? Goat, I think. Goat. And they thought, or we all thought she would have to kill it, including her.

[01:31:06] Um, now she's biting a piece of Melissa's arm off and trying to force her to eat it. And also, I think some of this seems to have rubbed off on Callie who got suspended from school for pouring a bag of animal guts onto other kids. It's like mother, like daughter kind of thing. So, um, it's, it's interesting, you know, I mean, it's about cannibalism, so they're all doing it, but it really seems focused on her. And I, if I had to come up with a reason for that, I think it's kind of what I was saying

[01:31:36] before that she feels like her life has become unremarkable and boring and bland. And, and the meat is about the killer instinct and wanting to feel alive. I think that's true. I think it's a good metaphor for it. And Ty's the only one who's a vegetarian, right? Because you would, you would think you might turn. That seems like that would be, make sense to be a vegetarian after that. Yeah. As far as we know.

[01:32:05] I wonder, well, because, uh, when we talked with Josh Hamilton, who was in the walking dead as, um, Lance Hornsby, but he also co-starred in alive with, uh, Ethan Hawke. So we got to interview him on our walking dead podcast. And he told us a story of having dinner, the cast of alive, having dinner with the actual, uh, rugby players that got stuck out there, the ones who made it out and they're, you know,

[01:32:33] they were older and everything, but he said they were a little nervous about how to talk about it and didn't want to offend. And then he looked over and saw one of them pretending to cut his arm with a knife and fork. That'll break the ice. That's pretty funny. Yeah. All right. Penny? Uh, there's a scene where Nat takes Ben's, I don't know, his bones, his head, I don't know what, to the plane.

[01:33:02] And, uh, it's in a bag that was suspiciously clean. I was like, why is that bag so clean? It was like a backpack, right? Yeah. Or his, maybe his duffel bag. I don't know. And it had a, his whistle was attached to it. And, you know, she leaves him on the plane and says goodbye to him. And then she has this moment on the plane where she sort of faces down. It or the vibe or whatever it is. And says, we're leaving you behind. We're going home. And, uh, Nat always feels it at the plane.

[01:33:31] We never see her have that experience in other places where she thinks that it is there, but it's happened to her at the plane a lot. That's also where she had the vision of the, where she saw the white, um, stag that she eventually did not kill. And, um, you know, when she died, her vision, she was in that plane and saw, you know, other people in the plane.

[01:33:56] I just, I thought that was all very interesting that it's all plane related and that she was the one who decided to take coach back to the plane.

[01:34:33] Mm-hmm. I think she took, I think she took Jackie's remains like bones back to the plane as well. You would think they would hide that. I think some of the things that you're bringing up, Wendy, are similar to a lot of what people bring up in the walking dead where it's like, oh, this, you know, logistically doesn't make sense. And I think a lot of times it's just, the answer is to lean into the drama for the writers and not cover all the logistic bases. Yeah.

[01:35:02] I think we're going to get, I hope and think we're going to get pieces of after they're rescued. And I think that's going to come up. Yeah. I think so too. Yeah. Well, nobody knows what they did. So. Or the people that know what they did are now dead because Shauna murked them. Could be. Or Nat, or Misty, or Misty killed them, or all of them killed, who knows what happened. Yeah.

[01:35:29] Or Melissa talked and that's why she was no longer one of them. And then they, you know, they had to kill whoever she talked to. There's a lot of possibilities. Okay. I had a point called, we have to not go back, but we already talked about that. I just wanted to mention the title. So another point, adult Ty struggling with what to do about Van and the doctor tells Ty it's time to think about end of life care for Van. That's pretty serious. Right.

[01:35:58] And so we know that means Ty's going to want to kill someone to appease the spirit of the wilderness and goes to the palliative care unit, finds a guy with, I think she said end stage heart failure. And then she couldn't bring herself to do it, which I thought was a good sign. You know, maybe she wouldn't have been able to kill the other guy either in New York City with Van that she went to his house. But also I thought, well, this guy didn't pick a card or anything.

[01:36:28] Does it count if you just pick a random guy? I don't know. But then I was a little confused with, I liked the way it was staged with Ty outside the room and dark tie in, but that was that Van's room? I think so. So when the camera pans across the room, there's a board and it says Van Palmer room five, but it's like a whiteboard. So I was like, maybe that's her room. Well, she said, let me in. I need to be with her, I think.

[01:36:57] So it sounded like it was her room. And then dark ties like, I'm the only one that can help her. You won't do what needs to be done. You never did believe. So what is she going to do in the room? That's what I'm wondering. What's dark tie going to do in the room with Van? Yeah. I was very confused. I was like, is that someone's room she's going to kill? Is that Van's room? She's not going to kill Van. What is happening now? Yeah. It's just unclear. Yeah. And then I had one more point, just funny stuff, because I thought there was a lot in this episode.

[01:37:26] I liked at the beginning of the episode when they're all yelling questions at Hannah, who's tied to this chair. What day is it? Can you get us out? And Van says, do Mulder and Scully get together? I like that too. So on brand for her. I'm like, spoiler. Yes, they do, Van. When did X-Files start? What year was it? I think 90 or 91, somewhere in there. No, I think it was later than that. Yeah. I remember it was one of the shows we watched when the kids were little.

[01:37:57] 1993. Okay. That makes sense. Cass was born in 93. Yeah. It was very on brand for Van and cute. It was a cute moment. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. When Misty at the hospital left a message for Shauna. Hi, Shauna. I'm just calling to say, fuck you, actually. And I swear to God, you will regret it if you do not turn that car around right now and come back here right this minute. Thank you. Yes. She was really cute.

[01:38:26] And I loved how her and Jeff are sort of bonding over the phone, but then Jeff's like, why are you at the hospital? Never mind. Yeah. It's not important. I'm only giving you enough information to get what I want. Yeah. Poor Jeff. And Misty, yeah, she seems to chase unavailable people. If there's someone seeking from her, then she'll rebuff them. Yeah. There's clearly something wrong with someone who wants to be with Misty or talk to Misty. Yeah.

[01:38:56] She doesn't trust that. Yeah. I did write a little note to myself that Misty was the most rational of the adults right now. Yeah. That's where we're at. Yeah. Although when Ty was trying to kill that guy, when she was getting ready to kill that guy, Misty didn't make a move to stop her. She was like, what are you doing? But she didn't say, don't kill that man. I just want to understand. And then she's like smoothing out the pillow and being like, we got to go. Let's go.

[01:39:25] When Melissa was talking about her marriage to Alex, she said, I love her. This is real. This isn't some sympathy marriage or fucked up version of survivor's guilt. Well, shit. I don't know. Maybe it is. Yeah. And then just Jeff screaming into his pillow. I can't. I can't. I can't. Oh, like Charlie Brown or something. Yeah. I need you to pull it together.

[01:39:55] So good. Something we haven't talked about that I thought was interesting was Shauna asked Melissa if she was still in love with her. And that seemed so odd to me. I mean, if she was still in love with you, she wouldn't have faked her death and kept up the charade for 20 years. Well, if she was a, what do you call it? Scorned lover. Yeah. Something like that.

[01:40:22] Like maybe she tried to move on and really actually still is obsessed with Shauna. I don't know if in love is the right word, but like fascinated by, obsessed with. And she kind of said it as if she hoped it was true. Yeah, a little bit. I could be reading things into it. And then Melissa laughing at her, it hurt my feelings. I was like, oh, ow. Like that's me. She's like, no, no. But I also was like, I don't know if I believe you, Melissa. Yeah, I agree too.

[01:40:51] She acted like, she moved on from the subject really quickly. She's like, I don't know if I ever was, but like she pursued Shauna. She was obsessed. You know, she was like following her around. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like Shauna didn't force her into that relationship. That was Melissa's idea. Yeah, I'm looking forward to more. I hope they don't kill Hilary Swank off too soon. Yeah, she's such a fantastic actor. I'm excited to see her in scenes with all these other amazing people.

[01:41:18] I don't think she's going to be around in season five. I'm just saying. But maybe season four. Yeah. I mean, I guess it's probably a nice cameo role for her if, you know, for a season or half a season or something. She could be gone in the next five minutes of the next episode. Yeah. Yeah. We only got Simone Kessel for one season. Yeah. Edwin. Dang. Yeah. We didn't get Edwin for long. No, he didn't even get one full episode.

[01:41:49] He was good too. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Notes. Lottie spent the entire episode with Edwin's blood still caked all over her face. She did wash it by the end. I was like, thank goodness, girl. The drama at the end with Lottie being like, I'm staying. And then Shauna's like, I'm staying. And then Ty's like, me too. Like, and then the arguments at each stage as each one of them said they were staying. It was just kind of fun to watch.

[01:42:17] And I was not prepared for Shauna to say, no, you're not. I was like, oh, twist. And then, you know, end of the episode. Frustrating. It was a good moment. Yeah. It was high, high drama. And it was this Nat versus Shauna friction of who's really the leader. Like, it was all through the episode, right? Like, Hannah's like, are you the captain? And then they fight about it. You're not. Neither are you. Well, she's dead.

[01:42:45] Like, there's going to be some Nat-Shauna friction for like the next whole season, I think. Yeah. It's going to be a reckoning. Yeah. And something dramatic is going to happen that turns adult Shauna to, we're so, we owe so much to Natalie. She's the only reason we got out of there. So I can't wait to see what that is. Well, they all seem pretty invested and buying into this whole concept of that the group is going to vote for everything.

[01:43:14] We're going to vote to see who dies. We're going to vote to see, you know, we're going to play the cards. And I think that's what they did with deciding to cut Coach Ben's Achilles heel. Mm-hmm. You know? So I think that's what it's going to be. It's going to be like, it's going to be another vote. And they persuade enough people. And then the other people feel compelled to abide by it, which is crazy. But I do think that's what it's going to be. Mm-hmm.

[01:43:45] I mean, that's what happens. Mm-hmm. I mean, eventually we know that they do go home. Yes. My only note is just that I was relieved when Misty found her glasses. I was glad. Yeah. Yeah. Me too. That's my nightmare, right? Because I need glasses. And without them, not only do I not see as well, I get horrible headaches. And if there's an apocalypse and I don't have my glasses, that's it for me. Yeah. That's why I keep all my old glasses for the apocalypse.

[01:44:15] I have several emergency pairs. Yeah. They're probably not the perfect prescription, but better than nothing. Yeah. Oh, I have multiples of my current prescription. Mm-hmm. I'm paranoid.

[01:44:58] Okay. We're back. It's time for some listener buzz. Great. Courtney McDaniel was commenting on the Yellow Jackets quiz that we had referenced last week. And she said, I got Shauna's journal and I'm not sure how to feel about it. I picked Sophie Thatcher as my favorite for what it's worth. Oh, okay. I guess that quiz is you find out which prop you are. Yeah. Which Yellow Jackets prop. And she's Shauna's journal. So I'm like, why don't you read yourself and tell us what's in there?

[01:45:28] I want the chunk of flesh that Shauna bit out of Melissa. Gross. I want it. How do I get that? I'll auction. There'll be an auction at some point. You can get it. Yeah. 50 bucks. Okay. Matt King says, they keep on getting crazier and crazier. You don't even know the half of it yet. Lottie going full Trotsky with the ax to the head. So Shauna may have killed Lottie possibly.

[01:45:57] So much going on here. Poor Hannah. Yeah. Poor Hannah. Yeah. Poor Hannah. Ashton says, last week I commented on the scratches on Jeff's hand when he is learning of Lottie's death. This led to some people adding Jeff to the suspects list regarding Lottie's death. I believe this week's mention of bed bugs was to resolve that mystery. Come on. It's Jeff. He doesn't have the motive or means to kill Lottie. The timeline doesn't work for the bed bugs to have caused the scratch because he had

[01:46:26] it when they were still, when they first got to the hotel, like right away. And I think it's the cat that that's where he got scratched from. I don't think, I don't think. But they're showing that to us for a reason. They want us to think it. Yeah. Yeah. They want, they know that fans make up theories and that they pay attention to every single detail. The feedback is full of theories. I love it. Like, and things I've never thought of. And I've thought of some crazy stuff in this show. Yeah.

[01:46:55] And I don't typically think that way. So I don't come up with a lot of theories. So then it's great that people listening to the podcast can get their fix from either you guys or listeners that write in. Yeah. All right. We have a voicemail from Steve Brown. Hello, Yellow Jackets WTF. This is Steve. I just started episode seven and I just realized that all the screeching they've been hearing is the frogs. That's Joel McHale just smoking and watching these two from the woods. Weird. And I'm not crazy.

[01:47:25] That is the same guy that played Robbie on New Girl. We have the answer to where the stockpile of goods came from. The previous team. Professional certification for mountain man. Oh, I just. Oh, in the back of the head. And is that Melissa that just got hit with the arrow? Secrecy is your love language, Shauna. Okay. So they're splitting up. Joel McHale is going one way. And Hannah, who apparently is going to die because didn't Shauna just look up her obituary? This is. Wow.

[01:47:54] This is a lot to take in. So Van and Diasa have found the campers camp, the campsite and the sat phone, the broken sat phone. So we're back in the wilderness, but I just had to comment that. So Shauna figured out this woman's had a daughter and what? Woman just hid the bag. And so how did it get out of the wilderness? How did, I don't know. You never read text messages on phones, on TV screens, even with my new glasses. Oh, Van spitting up blood. That's definitely not good.

[01:48:23] Trauma bond doesn't, doesn't trump family. Misty and Shauna in the waiting room together. Oh yeah. Sometimes the only way out is through, but man, that was brutal with the arrow through. Oh. Now Callie is a internet detective as well. She found out about these researchers of the guide that went missing 25 years ago. Okay. More and more questions, of course. And now Shauna's outside this person's house with a knife. Oh, this has been a crazy season so far. It's just going to get crazier.

[01:48:53] It's getting better and better. It's, it's now where after we podcast, I want to go watch the next one right away. All right. Maria Lawson says, I was actually holding my breath while Hannah was hiding in the tree. Sheesh. Lottie really screwed that up for everybody. Lottie. My heart broke for Van when she immediately wanted to try calling her mom. It was a reminder that no matter what we have seen her do, she is still a child and just wants to go home.

[01:49:21] I'm betting Shauna didn't intentionally kill Lottie, but had some sort of confrontation with her that ended in Lottie accidentally going down those stairs. I really hate having to wait until next week, but I'm really looking forward to hearing you all break this one down. Yeah. We, I don't know if we really talked about that possibility that one of the yellow jackets was involved with Lottie, but it was an accident or something. That would be kind of a disappointment in my opinion.

[01:49:49] I mean, it, it very easily looks like that. I mean, she fell down a flight of stairs. I liked whoever came up with the idea that Laura Lee's ghost might've been involved. I, I don't think it's any of them. I, I think, I think Melissa is definitely a suspect and I think Walter is a suspect. I think it was Daphne who said in the chat, what would Laura Lee think of where they all are now?

[01:50:18] I thought that was interesting to think about. Yeah. I don't think she'd like it. Alicia Gotts' Stout says, this week's theory, all of them will die. The wilderness will take them all eventually as they weren't supposed to survive the plane crash to begin with. Also, could Hannah be pit girl? I mean, she has black hair. Or Shauna is batshit cray. Well, how does that work that they all die if we've seen them as adults? I don't get it. I think she means by the end of the show. Yeah. Oh, I get you.

[01:50:47] I think that's a real possibility. It's hard to imagine any other ending. Yeah. I don't think there's a happy ending. No. Oh man, I can't decide. It could be a bittersweet ending. I don't know. I feel like it would be too much of a bummer if they're all just dead. There's probably at least one survivor. At least we have to see Callie and Jeff driving off or something. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:51:15] They go and form an intentional community. All right. Here is Archmaester Rennie. I don't have any theories this week. What I have is a wacky wilderness observation of a detail, the kind of detail that I focus on and then it drives me crazy. And that is the tent. Kodiak's tent.

[01:51:41] It looks like some sort of weird 1940s saggy, made out of parachute cloth pup tent. I did a lot of camping during the 1990s. And I had a lovely dome tent. Easy to put up, easy to take down. Kept me dry from the rain. Had plenty of room.

[01:52:09] I was not camping in the 90s in a saggy, weird thing like that. So this sends me down a path of wondering, is Kodiak not what he's pretending to be? Is he not actually an experienced, competent, outdoors person? And there was a hint that maybe he was lost. He was guiding them when they went through that one particularly narrow place that maybe

[01:52:38] he didn't know where he was going. So I just wonder if that weird amateur hour tent is something that we're supposed to notice or not. So buzz, buzz, buzz. The idea that Kodi is a complete fraud. Hadn't occurred to me. I thought that his wilderness skills were probably what he presented them to be, but all of the rest of his story was bullshit.

[01:53:08] But the idea that he doesn't even have wilderness skills is terrifying, actually. I feel like that would add a wrinkle to the story that it doesn't necessarily need unless they do something really interesting with it that I'm not thinking of. But I feel like it's interesting enough to me that this mountain man meets yellow jackets and see what ensues, you know. And I do feel like he's kind of a blank slate right now.

[01:53:36] And I'm interested in him. Yeah. And Hannah, too. Yeah. I would like to see more. Yeah. Before they die. I hope that we get at least a few more episodes out of them. Yeah. Yeah. Michael Hawkins says, I liked the now defunct theory that Coach Scott was neither killed nor rescued, but just left in the wilderness to die or possibly live. Obviously, that's out, but it could still apply to someone else.

[01:54:05] Maybe Kodiak, although I feel he would have made it out before now. What if Shauna was meant to kill or just told people she killed Melissa? However, it was a scenario with no witnesses and she actually let her live. I was considering that theory, too, Michael. She has the motive of their romantic connection, and it would explain her looking shifty in the car when Melissa being dead is mentioned. Melissa survived, just made it out, and has the tape due to referenced closeness to Hannah. She's back. She's pissed. She's Hilary Swank.

[01:54:35] I mean, you're really close. Yeah. All right. Tony Douglas says, I wanted to share my theory about the Joel McHale character Kodiak. I think Kodiak will become the antler king or the forest daddy. I love forest daddy. That is great. Whatever you want to call him. This is why. He references to the wilderness. He tells a story about Zeus and eating them all.

[01:55:01] His name is Kodiak, and Akilah has that premonition of a bear with a third eye. The third eye could mean insight to the wilderness. He is a creepy guy. I think having a bunch of feral girls worshiping him and killing each other for him is something he would love. Finally, he is super tall, and in the scene after Pit Girl dies, and they are sitting around the fire, the antler person is sitting very tall.

[01:55:27] Before, I always thought the girl was on a throne-type seat, but now I just think it's just tall man Joel. Also, I think Hannah is Pit Girl. I also think that Ben's boyfriend might be seeking revenge in the adult timeline for Ben. Hmm. Why would they show those flashbacks? P.S. Hi to Daphne. I always write in on Instagram to run for your lives. First time here. Thanks, Tony. Welcome. Thank you. I love all that. Yeah. That's great. Daphne will be back next week? Yeah.

[01:55:57] Yeah. Um, I gotta say, I don't like the idea of a man being in the middle like that on this show. Me either. I don't like it. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, no, it's the powerful girl show, not the man show. Yeah. I, I love, I love all the theories though. Yeah, absolutely. It was really fun to read the phrase forested daddy. Okay. Here is a voicemail from Jan. Okay.

[01:56:27] So I have a theory of that. I think that it was, I think. I think that it was ban that killed Lottie. Uh, just cause in the one scene where Ty was asking about, I think her doctor's appointment and why she took so long. She was holding a lollipop in her hand.

[01:56:49] And it just made me think of how, when Misty was talking to the guy at the front desk of the hotel that Lottie was staying at, he was telling a story and about law Lottie and these lollipops. So just a little, I don't know if that's just like a little tidbit or foreshadowing, but I'm

[01:57:18] definitely suspicious of ban now with, uh, the death of Lottie fan is the one person that I haven't suspected of killing Lottie. No, because she had the chance to kill somebody that I do think she believes at least halfway that might've saved her and she chose not to, but I mean, I think they've intentionally made it so that they are all sus. I mean, they all were in Manhattan.

[01:57:47] Right. On that day. But the way that Van was questioning Ty seemed very sincere, that she was afraid Ty's the one who did it. Yep. We better find out who did it by the end of the season. Abby Fisher says, I discovered Podcastica a few months ago and I'm loving your coverage of several of my favorite shows. I just listened to your episode on Croak and I have a theory. Oh, thank you, by the way, Abby. I'm glad you're digging that. I'm curious what other shows you're watching.

[01:58:17] Uh, on Croak and I have a theory about the DNA reveal from this episode. Shauna refused to swap her samples with Walter, but he found a hair in the hat she was wearing, but how can he know for sure? It's Shauna's hair. Where did she get that hat? If it was something that she had already had in her house, it could be Callie or Jeff's hair. And one of them killed Lottie. Since Jeff is the one with remarked upon marks on his arm slash hand at this point, my money

[01:58:43] is on him going to try and protect his daughter and wife and ending up in an altercation with Lottie. That, that could be, yeah. He was the one who had the accident with her, but Callie would be a good twist as well. Also, when you were talking about the first episode and how they showed the pit girl scene and then went back to when they were quote, nice and normal. I remembered how one of the most shocking things in the pilot for me was actually when Ty sabotaged the younger girl on the soccer team and broke her leg.

[01:59:10] Those girls were not innocent to start with and Ty may have been the most ruthless all along. She's just been the best at hiding it behind a respectable veneer. Personally, I don't think Ty meant to break her leg. I think she was just trying to be really rough with her to sort of force the issue of whether she was good enough to go because she was like, why is this JV person coming with us? I don't think she was trying to hobble her necessarily, but I could be wrong.

[01:59:37] I thought she was trying to like make a point, like get in the game or get out. Yeah. Abby finishes up so excited to find out how the season ends. I feel like the showrunners really know where they're going after croak and I'm along for the ride. Same. Welcome to podcast, Abby. Kathy says, okay, so I was way late to this party. Just recently binged Yellow Jackets and I'm binging your podcast.

[02:00:05] In episode 31, It Chooses, there was some discussion about the girl's mental state when they were drawing cards to see who would be chosen. First, I think they gave Nat the necklace as a way to honor Jackie, the first one it chose. Second, a few years ago, I had a psychotic episode while recovering from surgery. It was attributed to low potassium. But when I talked to my doctor, this is what he said. Quote, you said you weren't eating, sleeping, or drinking water.

[02:00:33] So you were dehydrated, malnourished, and sleep deprived. Any one of those things could cause temporary psychosis. And you had all three plus low potassium. Close quote. So I'm actually surprised any of them stayed sane even a little bit. Love your podcast and I wish you'd do severance. Oh, Kathy, we tried so hard to get it together for severance and we just couldn't make the scheduling work. There's too many shows. Yeah.

[02:00:59] And then watching this season, I was feeling like, wow, I'm even loving severance season two even more than one. And it would have been so great if we could have gotten a podcast going. But also, isn't it nice to just be able to watch this show and be done with it? Yeah. I do find myself watching it and constantly thinking, oh, okay, I got to write that down. No, I'm not podcasting about this show. Yeah, no, I don't have to. It would be such a great podcastable show, though. It was very good. Yeah. I just started severance.

[02:01:29] Oh. Just last week. Such a ride ahead of you. So I'm on like episode five of season one. But if there is a season three, I would do it. I think they already greenlit it. Yeah. Yeah. I'm really liking it. Yeah. Okay. Would you do a solo podcast about it? Only two halves or something. I'll just talk about it. Wendy talking to herself. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, I'm sure people would love that. Any Wendy. Audi Wendy. Yeah. That's right. Back and forth.

[02:02:01] That's right. That's right.

[02:02:27] Thanksgiving Canada, meaning that it was actually on that date, which would be like October 10th or somewhere in there because they said that the frogs came out in the summer. But when I went back and looked at the dialogue, it said it was a summer long orgy. So that means that it could be at the end of the summer, which could be pretty close. So maybe just stretching a little bit, that could bring it right into the early October timeframe. Yeah.

[02:02:55] I think it's at least very late summer, if not early fall, because we saw a lot of time pass with Coach being in captivity. Mm-hmm. All right. David Hook says, I wanted to follow up on the Alice in Wonderland parallels because you all seem very interested. Alice follows a white rabbit down a hole to get to Wonderland and the girls all follow their captain, Jackie, a huge fan of rabbits, to their own fall. She might even be named after a jackrabbit.

[02:03:25] Furthermore, when the girls are having a meal before the plane crash, Laura Lee is dressed like Alice. She reminds me of an Alice for sure. And Lottie is positioned like the Mad Hatter at his tea party. It seems that Shauna could be positioned as the March Hare and Taisa as the Dormouse. These roles suggest something about the characters' roles in the show. Shauna is a part of the madness similar to the March Hare in Wonderland, whose erratic behavior reflects the chaos around her.

[02:03:53] Taisa, who often has sleepwalking episodes and exhibits strange behavior, mirrors the Dormouse, who is sleepy, disoriented, and removed from reality. That's interesting. Misty seems to reflect the Cheshire Cat and the Caterpillar, emphasizing the madness of the group. The Cheshire Cat, known for its cryptic and unpredictable nature, mirrors Misty's eerie and often unsettling presence. The Caterpillar introduces Alice to mushrooms, just like Misty does in Doomcoming. It's cool.

[02:04:23] I really need to reread Alice in Wonderland. It's a very fuzzy memory in my head, and this is just making it sound even better. Yes, I haven't read it in a long time. Me neither. Keeley Bell says, Hey, y'all, I don't know if this just has gone unsaid or if this is a new thought, but I guess we're about to find out. I figured that the title Thanksgiving Canada was not in reference to the time of year, but more in reference to the lie we're told about Thanksgiving,

[02:04:50] that one group of people, pilgrims slash the frog people, stumble upon the land that is currently occupied by a tribe with customs completely foreign to them, indigenous people slash the girls, and nothing is ever the same. Of course, there's the potentially problematic implications of having the cannibalistic girls as the indigenous people in this allegory,

[02:05:11] but if we frame it in the way Americans are told slash lied to about the story of Thanksgiving where the good and civilized people find the uncivilized tribe, I think it checks out. Would love to hear your thoughts on this. Otherwise, I can't think of what it might reference because I also don't believe the wilderness is out of summer yet. That's an interesting theory, but it could potentially be problematic, as you said, because we know the truth. It's not a lie that these girls are cannibals.

[02:05:40] But I'm second guessing myself and thinking maybe they are in early fall. And also, whether they are or not, to me, it was just a funny way to label the episode. Like the next one's called Croak, and this one's called A Normal Boring Life. And the one where they have a big feast and its coach is called Thanksgiving, but they had to put in Canada because it was up in Canada. Yeah, that's what I think. But I love these theories. Everybody keep them coming because I love the exercise of thinking them through.

[02:06:10] Mm-hmm. Michelle Curley says,

[02:06:58] That's great. That's awesome. Ribbit, ribbit. Ribbit. Chris Seth says, Holy shit. The look on Shauna's face when Lottie Cleave the frog guy's head was ecstatic. Like she couldn't believe what she was seeing and she loved it. She's a complete sociopath. And now I feel like there's no satisfactory ending where Shauna lives. The way they have her character set up right now, her present day facade has to shatter and no one around her will be safe when it does.

[02:07:25] Well, he's going to be thinking he was right when he sees this week's episode. She got to go and it will probably have to be Callie that does it. I thought a previous scientific team was at least a fathomably plausible answer to the stash that Ben found. Yeah. And they answered that the girls did find that stuff. I had wondered if Ben had eaten at all because they hadn't mentioned what had happened to those supplies after he was found.

[02:07:53] Lastly, I could watch Misty respond to Shauna all day. Did I ask for your help? No, but if passed his prologue, you will late and rudely. Killed me. Christina Ricci is the best thing about this show. It's hard to decide who is the best thing about the show because I thought that about Juliette Lewis. I think that about Melanie Linsky. I think that about Sophie Thatcher, Sophie Nellise and Melissa Hanratty, man. She's amazing.

[02:08:23] So good. Young Misty. And I don't want Shauna to die or any of them. I don't. I would be fine if none of them die. No, I don't want anybody to die. But I think. I don't. I don't. I think it's going to be hard to avoid that. Yeah. Yeah. Some of them are going to at least. Our final piece of feedback comes from Zacam, and I love this feedback. In episode 48 of the podcast for the show episode Thanksgiving Canada, you were talking about Lottie's father.

[02:08:53] And after a piece of feedback, one of you stated, I don't think he has a real business meeting. That was me. And their presentation of dementia did not seem real to me. It seemed silly. That was Wendy. One thing that you missed is that he claims he has a meeting with Bear Stearns. This is a clear indication of his dementia because Bear Stearns was an investment bank and brokerage firm that failed in 2008. I forgot that they were one of the failed banks. I thought they were still around. It was sold to JPMorgan Chase, who then stopped using the Bear Stearns name in 2010.

[02:09:23] I credit another podcast for questioning whether Bear Stearns still existed, prompting me to investigate. Thank you for sending that in. And I can't believe I forgot that about Bear Stearns because that 2008 financial meltdown had a gigantic effect on my life for a while. Yeah, me too. They've all just kind of merged into each other. So by now, I don't know which ones are still around and which ones are just merged into another company. Yeah, it's hard to keep track.

[02:09:52] My friends and I used to joke that someday there's just going to be corporation and bank, and that's going to be all of them. Yeah. Yeah, like I have a couple of friends that are brokers and they've just moved from company to company to company because of mergers, you know? Like they still work for the place they've always worked for, but they've changed names four times. And there will just be one podcast. Podcastica, of course. Who will be the last man standing?

[02:10:21] Dun, dun, dun. All right. That is our show. Thanks so much, as always, for listening, everybody. Next up, Yellow Jackets, Season 3, Episode 9, How the Story Ends. That's it. That'll do it. That's the last episode. Just the last one.

[02:10:44] If you want to write in or send us a voice message about the show with your theories or your questions or any of that stuff, you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com. While you're there, why not check out some of our other shows? I'm enjoying White Lotus. The podcast is fabulous. Thank you. It is a lot of fun. It's been really fun and it's a really interesting season.

[02:11:07] That's another show where they've crossed over and now it's like this just race to the finale and I'm so there for it. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. The memes coming out of that show are amazing. The remix dance versions of Parker Posey saying no and tsunami and Buddhism. Oh my God. I love that. I'm loving all of that stuff.

[02:11:31] I saw somebody doing an impression of if Victoria Ratliff was at Whole Foods and it's hilarious. She's like, you know, oh, this comes from Taiwan. Oh, I think in Buddhism they don't have this kind of food. Like, it's so funny. Yeah, it's great. It's been good. All right. That is our show. Thanks for listening. Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz.