51: "How the Story Ends" (S3E9)

[00:00:00] fiance?捏? How the Story Ends S3E9 Rapeys Pa-128 Don't you know how dumb it is to get close to her? She's just using you to try to escape. And what, you think she makes a joke and I'm like you're hilarious here's your freedom? What did she say to you? Nothing. It just,

[00:00:25] she has a kid back home. And you believe that? Why wouldn't I? She just wants you to feel bad for her. She's manipulating you. I don't think that she is. And yeah, I do feel kind of bad. She must really miss her. Well, I'm glad you have so much sympathy for her. This isn't a competition, Shauna. I know. She's... I didn't think you were this fucking stupid.

[00:00:51] How much I care? You think you're important? No one gave a shit about you until me. Hey everybody, welcome to our podcast. I'm Daphne. And I'm Penny. And I'm Wendy. And I'm Jason.

[00:01:20] And this is Yellow Jackets WTF episode 51. This week we'll be covering season three, episode nine, How the Story Ends. April Fools. Yeah. I missed you guys the last couple of weeks. I have not been part of the show. I've had some stuff going on, so I missed you. We missed you too. And I'm really glad we're all back together for this episode.

[00:01:47] Nothing much happened in this episode, so I don't think we're going to have much to talk about. Yeah. Okay. Maybe like 10 minutes. This will be our shortest episode ever. We'll be all done. So what are your overall thoughts? Who wants to go first? I'll just say that this show is unpredictable. Yeah. Agreed. Like nobody had these events on their bingo card. No. Yeah, I was shocked.

[00:02:17] And then I got shocked again. Yeah. It was – it defies prediction. And I'm so there for that. Yeah. Like so many things are so the same. You know, like there's so many copies of things and reboots of things. Yes. Yeah. And just, you know, weak writing and predictable writing. And this show, love it or hate it, it's not like anything else. Yeah. I agree. That's one thing I love about this show.

[00:02:45] You can tell that the writers are having fun with it. Definitely. Definitely. I was kind of blown away by like the last 10 to 15 minutes. I feel like a lot of shock went into that. And I wasn't really prepared. And when the episode was over, I just kind of, you know, had to pick my jaw off the floor and say, wow. Okay. So this is – this is – that happened. Okay.

[00:03:15] Yeah. Yeah. It was definitely something I wasn't expecting. But again, with this show, it is so unpredictable. It's hard to know what to expect, which is, you know, one of the best things about it. Let's kick things off now with fucked up moment of the week. So, you know, I just don't think it's appropriate for a parent to smoke weed with their kid. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Oh.

[00:03:44] I think that the whole – I love that scene. I think that it's going to be hard to pick anything more fucked up than Hannah just randomly stabbing Cody in the eye. Yeah. I'll go for it. Yeah. I mean, other fucked up stuff happened, but that one, I don't have words for it. I'm so confused by it. No, I disagree. That wasn't the most fucked up because it was very fucked up, but she was trying to save

[00:04:10] herself at least, and we don't know why the hell Melissa killed Van. Yeah. It could have been for the same reason. Yeah. Because it told her to. Yeah. That's fucked up. Yeah. Those are the – I mean, that's the two that I was thinking, but Hannah, Static, Cody. Yeah, I mean, they're both up there. I had three that I was narrowing down between. Those two were definitely there, as well as I just don't understand why the hell everyone

[00:04:38] just listens to Shauna and wants to stay in the wilderness. Like, I just don't get it. Yeah. I was going to say, like, I don't believe anyone would listen to someone like that, and then my world got turned upside down over the last several years, and I'm just like, yeah, I could see it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:05:01] I will say that mine was Shauna force-feeding Melissa her arm meat, and her chewing it on screen, and spitting it epically back into her face. Yeah. I could not watch that the second time around. No, me either. That was a fucked up slash triumphant moment. Yeah. I guess I counted that as part of last week's most fucked up moment.

[00:05:32] I think it was the chewing that got me. Yeah. It was pretty revolting. And when she spit, I, like, almost threw up. It was pretty bad. Yeah. And it was like a monumental, spitting this wad of food. Or not food, but food. Me. Sort of. Flesh. Yeah. If you're a cannibal, then yes. Flesh. Yeah. It was pretty disgusting. I also did not watch it on my second watch. I couldn't. I had to skip it.

[00:06:02] That'll be our podcast start for this episode. Shauna with a face full of Melissa. Oh, man. Okay. So let's go ahead and get into our points. Penny, since you let us off during the fucked up moment of the week, why don't you go ahead and kick us off with your first point? I just want to, thank you.

[00:06:29] I want to follow on from that and just all of us sort of talk about what is happening. Like, what is Hannah thinking? And Jason, you said, you know, she's trying to save her life. And I think that's true. But the speed with which she went from trying to escape to murder, like cold-blooded, violent, intimate, close-up murder with no hesitation, scared the crap out of me. Like the other girls, it took a while for them to descend to that point.

[00:06:59] Hannah, it took her three seconds. It was wild. Melissa says to her, you know, Hannah's like, they can't keep us prisoners forever, right? And Melissa says, I stopped trying to predict what's going to happen out here a long time ago. All I know is people are willing to do some messed up stuff just to see another day. And I think, yeah, that was sort of foreshadowing for Hannah that she's just doing it. That's my guess, you know. You never know anything for sure on the show.

[00:07:26] But she's just doing it because she wants to ally herself with Shauna rather than against her. And I think the fact that she brought up that Cody's rucksack had another name on it, it just sort of, you know, we can't, a lot of times we don't trust people on the show. And there's clues that could be red herrings. And I think that was a total red herring.

[00:07:48] But it was just one thing that nudged her towards feeling okay about doing that, saving herself at the expense of this guy who she finds a bit shady. And a bit hot. Yeah. Yeah. I'm wondering if she's at some sort of dilemma about is he hot or is he shady or is he both? Like, is she having like a fight with herself over what she's really thinking about him? Those two things go together a lot. They do.

[00:08:17] I kind of think the hot ended for her as soon as it became a life or death situation. And he wasn't trying to like be her hero. Chat her up or anything. Yeah. Yeah, but they were, you know, they were trying to escape. And then she throws them under the bus. Cody got the knife. That seemed like self-preservation. Yes, normal. I've never stabbed anyone, but I've tried to imagine what it would be like.

[00:08:46] And unlike even shooting a gun or shooting an arrow where there's at least 10 feet, you know, probably distance between you, with a knife, you are fully engaged in the murder, right? Like you're right up close and personal with the person, looking them straight in the eyes, the way she was especially. And she didn't show any hesitation. This is what freaks me out about it. As I'm like, has she been a psychopath all along? And she's like, yay, I found my people. Like, is that what happened?

[00:09:16] I don't think so. It could be, but I don't think so. Yeah. Because she said, I want to be a part of this. I think that's just BS to try to ingratiate herself. But who knows? She's just trying to save herself. I think the scientific curiosity she was talking about with Melissa was genuine. Was real. I think that's real. Yeah. But I don't have any scientist who's like, I'd murder to be a part of this study. I mean, it could be a mix.

[00:09:43] It could be a mix of curiosity and fascination. I mean, she did seem attracted to Cody, who seemed like a dangerous guy. So maybe there is something about her that's attracted to danger. And it was self-preservation. Yeah, there's a lot going on there. I also don't 100% believe that she has a 10-year-old at home. I got the sense that, although Shauna never said it from her research that she had given the baby up for adoption.

[00:10:11] But if she had had that baby still when she was like, however old she is in the show, like, you know, 25, 28, I think that it would have been in the obituary. When you say, like, it's a teen pregnancy, that's why it wasn't mentioned in her obituary. That sort of implies, and she didn't raise the baby. Right. Yeah. I thought it wasn't the obituary. No. I can't remember. I mean, she tells Melissa, this is the most fascinating study of survival I've ever witnessed. I think she's just acting her heart out.

[00:10:41] She's just trying to survive. I don't think she's interested in them. But I could be wrong. You know, it's hard to tell. Well, and Penny, something interesting that you said about being up close and personal with the knife when you're killing someone could also be said for what Melissa did to Van. Oh, yes. Yes, absolutely. All of the Yellow Jackets who've been through all this trauma in the woods, and even though

[00:11:08] they're, like, 25 years later adults now, there's a progression of psychosis, right? Like, we saw them go from sort of normal to really messed up. But I just, Hannah's only been there a day. Yeah. But yes, Melissa, that was super fucked up, the whole ending with Melissa and Van. Although I was like, I knew Melissa was suspicious. Like, I just, I was excited about that part. Yeah.

[00:11:33] I was thinking, if I was going to defend Hannah, you know, she's been captured by teenagers who she witnessed having a cannibalistic, ritualistic feast. And then they immediately macheted her boyfriend. And then she's got nothing to do. She's sitting in the middle of that camp, tied up, sitting there. She's got nothing to do but observe all of them. And I think she's, she's seeing who's in, who's out, where the divisions are.

[00:12:03] They're not being discreet. They haven't been this whole time. I mean, it would make more sense to put them somewhere else with a guard and not have them in the middle of your camp listening to everything all day. Yeah. And the show made a point of showing her watching that scene between Shauna and Melissa. When Shauna shot Melissa's sleeve. Yeah.

[00:12:27] I'm on board with the concept of Hannah thinks Shauna is the leader and the most powerful one. And she should ally herself with her in order to survive. I just can't add that together with how she killed Cody. That was unbelievable. Well, I think she made that decision at the very last minute with Shauna pointing a gun at her, thinking she could pull the trigger any second and I'd be dead. So I'm going to act. Yeah. And I think she also had to think like, they're eating people.

[00:12:57] And we're, we're the two prisoners. And so she just served up another person to them on a platter. And also knowing that Cody was the one who knew how to get out of there. She was probably going to be seen as expendable. Absolutely. Yep. Exactly. That's what I was thinking. But I think all of that happened really quickly because on first watch, I thought she had it planned all along. And that she was going to kill him all along.

[00:13:25] But then on second watch, I realized, no, she was untying him and they were leaving. So that all had to be last minute decision. Or maybe, you know, maybe she had a plan B in her head. I mean, we barely know her. She didn't give Natalie up. Yeah. She didn't say, well, Natalie gave me the knife. So I'm appreciative that she didn't throw Natalie under the bus. Yeah.

[00:13:54] But I don't know exactly why she didn't do that. I just think she was strategizing. She's like, nobody likes this guy. I'm not even sure I trust him. Am I going to rat out this person who tried to save me and cause a war in this group? Or am I just going to kill this guy and say, can I please join you? Well, she made a decision. And bye-bye, Kodiak. Yeah. That was a bold choice. Yes.

[00:14:24] And it was kind of a bummer. We were all saying we would like to see more from him. But oh well. Yeah. Don't always get what you want. Earlier in the episode, they did a lot of like meaningful eye contact between him and Shawna. And like, you know, she pulls the gun on him and everything that really was leading us down this path of Shawna's going to kill this guy like any minute. And then she didn't get to. He didn't really seem to have a lot of game.

[00:14:51] Like he just throws it in their faces that they're cannibals. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. He's just sort of, yeah, he's not super clever. But when he tried to leave and she pointed the gun at him and Nat said, don't do anything stupid, Shawna. And she goes, tell him that. I just like that delivery. And then he goes, you sure you know how to use that little girl? And she's like, don't worry. My boyfriend taught me. That was also great. Yeah. That was great. That was almost a Mari level of sassiness. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:15:21] I think we're getting like this coming together of the Shawna from the wilderness to the Shawna that we have now. It's kind of, or the Shawna that we met early in the adult timeline when the show first started. We're seeing Shawna as a teenager start to transition to be that person.

[00:15:48] And I'm just noticing more and more similarities between the way that Melanie Linsky and Sophie Nellies play Shawna. And it seems like it's just coming together. Yeah. The snark was very reminiscent of adult Shawna's Joel's takedown. Mm-hmm. Just the same kind of like, oh, you think you're so special. Like, blah, blah, blah. The way she, you know, like even when she was talking to Melissa and she's like, you believed her. I didn't think you were that stupid.

[00:16:16] That's, that reminded me so much of Shawna in that restaurant scene. Yeah. Just mean and good at being mean. She really is very good at being mean. I think the last couple of episodes have really amped that up and showcased that she can be incredibly cruel. You know how this season opened with them playing that tag game and she bit Mari and then she spit in her suit. Mm-hmm.

[00:16:44] And ever since, you know, she's just been really vicious and, you know, I'm trying to connect the dots as to why. And, you know, she lost her baby and she lost Jackie. But there is a part of me that's like, that was, that was a leap in viciousness that we didn't get to experience because there was a time jump. She wasn't like that at the end of last season. And, of course, you can say, yeah, okay, it just built up over the time that we didn't see.

[00:17:13] But because we didn't get to experience it, it feels a little bit like the writers are like, let's make her meaner now. Yeah. Like, it doesn't feel as organic. I can totally understand why she would be that way. But just talking about how it feels, it just kind of feels a bit abrupt to me. But I'm okay with it now. I mean, I said a few times on the podcast that it's more interesting to me that she's like this and more straightforwardly vicious than being kind of passive like she was before.

[00:17:40] I think she's lost all direction, motivation. She doesn't want to go home. She can't face what that would mean. And I think she's just really lost any reason to keep going except for this power that she's gotten that makes her feel alive, I can only guess. Like, that's it. That's all she's got.

[00:18:08] So she's going to hold on to it. Yeah. I feel like she never had that in her life. And now that she has it, she's really hesitant to do anything to change the situation so that she's not able to really, you know, get a hit from it. Because I think it's like a drug for her now. That kind of goes into my first point. Do you mind if I go next? You go next, Jason. It's competing factions.

[00:18:37] And with her being this way, ruthless and aggressive and the forming of factions kind of behind Shauna and Nat, I feel like this show's feeling more like Lord of the Flies than it ever has. Shauna is all aggressive and adversarial. And she has her followers. And she reminds me of Jack, if you've read Lord of the Flies.

[00:19:06] And Nat is more like Ralph, I think. The more compassionate one who's not a bad, not mean. And Shauna and Jack both lean into their kind of darker instincts and they're more ruthless. Nat and Ralph try to hold on to some kind of moral compass. And so the group's divided. Nat, Mari, Akilah, Jen, and Travis are together.

[00:19:35] And they all seem to just want to go home. And Shauna, Ty, Misty, Van, Lottie, and Melissa, who ends up defecting to the Nats group, they, I think, either really want to stay like Ty because she doesn't want to get in trouble. And Lottie because she just prefers it there. Or they're just loyal to Shauna like Melissa.

[00:20:01] And Van, I guess she is loyal to Ty. Misty, I don't know. Is she ready to go home? It seems like it. She's trying to fix that transponder now. But she's in that group. Maybe it's just because they'll take her. And Jason, you're talking about in the beginning of the episode, right? I mean, that's pretty much how it is the whole time, right? Except for Melissa, who goes over to the other group. I don't think Travis is with Mari and Akilah.

[00:20:29] I think he's ideologically with them, but not part of their group. Yeah, he's not conspiring with him. He's got his whole own plan. Well, him and Lottie are off doing their thing, so we don't really know. Off doing their thing, which is Travis trying to kill her. So I would say he's not in her group necessarily. But he's been friends with Akilah, you know? So I don't know.

[00:20:54] And at the end, did it seem like Misty could have been with either group at the end? Misty's morals and positions are flexible depending on who will give her love. Right. I know she was physically where Nat was. She's with Shauna, Ty, Misty, Van and Lottie, that group. And then she tells them, why don't I pretend that you were annoyed with me and I'll go spy on them for you? And then she goes and tries to spy on the other group, but it fails.

[00:21:23] So then she's kind of on her own after that. But if she was allied with anyone, it was Shauna's group at first. Yeah, I was calling them Team Crazy because someone referred to them as Team Crazy. And then Natalie's group, I called them Team GTFO, get the fuck out, because they wanted to escape. I like it. So that's what I've been doing when I was in my notes trying to separate or distinguish between the two.

[00:21:48] So Van tells Ty she doesn't want to go through another winter and Van says, our game will run out and you know what's next. Ty says, good thing you've been practicing with the cards, which makes me wonder, is Van practicing to cheat? I mean, that's what I got from that. That's not fair. Right. So we're willing to play cannibalism games, but we're going to rig it. Yeah. That's fucked up. Yeah. Right.

[00:22:18] Uh, and then Nat decides to give Hannah the knife so she, Cody can cut themselves loose and they can all make a run for it. And then we see Hannah trying to kind of ingratiate herself with Melissa and tells her about her daughter. And, um, then Shauna's pissed at Melissa for making friends with Hannah. So angry at her for having sympathy for her. And she's just such a villain right now.

[00:22:47] And, and, um, then, you know, Melissa storms out and Shauna follows her. You think you're important? No one gave a shit about you until me. She's like, why can't you just be a nice person? You're nothing. And I mean, that thing that adult missless Melissa said about Shauna, you hate yourself and you try to make everyone else as miserable as you seems to kind of apply here.

[00:23:10] But I also think that Shauna's, I feel like Jackie plays into this a lot that Shauna's trying to make Melissa feel the way that she felt around Jackie, that Shauna felt around Jackie. And, you know, it's probably not just Jackie. It's something maybe that she's had her whole life. But I really keep thinking about Jackie when I see how Shauna's acting. One of you pointed that out and I couldn't stop thinking about it. I think it was Penny. That fight between the two of them was so interesting because it was so public.

[00:23:40] And, and Shauna was shameless about it. Like she didn't look at all abashed about saying like, you're nothing. Nobody cared about you before me. That's like really mean shit. But and, and then the, and shooting her and she's all like, told you to do it. And like, that was hard for me to watch. I was like, no, Shauna, no, no. She held her gun pointed right at her and they're like, dude. And she's got this smirk on her face.

[00:24:08] And Melissa said, I fucking dare you. And she didn't shoot her, did she? She fought, fired next to her. There was a hole in her jacket. Okay. And she peed her pants and Van did her a kindness and covered it up. And Shauna smirked at that as well. Like that's some bullying. Is Shauna that good of a shot that like, we've never seen Shauna like practicing with the gun. Was that intentional to, to miss that closely? Or did she just, you know, like it's hard to tell. I think it was intentional.

[00:24:39] And I do think she has practiced with the gun. Well, they said that she hasn't let it leave her side. Like she's had it all this time. Well, since she became the leader, but that's only a couple of, like, how long has that been? Like three days? She could have just. Not long. Meant to fire. I don't think she probably meant to kill her. She probably meant to scare her and maybe got closer than she meant to. And then just took the win. That's one option, you know? Yeah.

[00:25:07] Then Melissa tells the other girls what happened. And, and somebody said Shauna knows. So I think that means that Shauna knows that they were conspiring against her, you know, to let them go. But I'm not sure about that. But then Nat starts to cry because she's knows that was our last chance to go home. It's messed up. And then right then it starts snowing, which is the thing that they've been dreading.

[00:25:32] So I think you guys were totally right about Thanksgiving Canada being on the day because now we're headed right into winter, which makes me think about winter. And how, like, you would think that next season could lead into the Cannibal Council that we saw in the pilot. And then it makes me wonder if they still have a five season plan. Will season five be post-rescue completely or something like that, you know? Maybe season four will be. Like, nobody knows. I know. It's so hard to.

[00:26:02] Cannibal Council could be next episode. Right? They could turn them. It's true. Yeah. This season has went by really quickly. They've sped up. But I don't think it's going to be over. I mean, so talking about the factions, I'm holding out hope that we're going to get two more seasons. We'll see. But if we do, I think the split between the groups will get worse.

[00:26:27] And I was looking back at press materials that came out as early as 2019. And it described the series as the series chronicles their descent from a complicated but thriving team to warring cannibalistic clans while also tracking the lives they've attempted to piece together nearly 25 years later. So it was always built about being about warring clans. And I think if that does play out over the course of some time that we're just kind of seeing the beginning of it now. Yeah.

[00:26:57] I would love that. That sounds terrible. But... No. Well, yeah. We're watching the show. Yeah. Like that. And that makes sense if they're going by the inspiration of Lord of the Flies. Yeah. Because that's what happened in Lord of the Flies. That's kind of what I thought was going to happen last season. So I was really jazzed to see it happening this season. Mm-hmm. Yeah, there's definitely a split.

[00:27:24] But it's also made me realize that as bad as I thought Shauna was, I think she's even worse than what I thought because of what we've just seen her do this season. I feel like she's capable of anything. And she's unrestrained out there. So she's just fully giving in to whatever.

[00:27:48] If she has the impulse to blow things up, but she's back home kind of like, well, if I do that, I'll probably go to jail or whatever. Right. She doesn't have that here. Yeah. And the more she does, the more, the harder it is to go home. Yeah. The more happens out there. Yeah. I think so too. Mm-hmm.

[00:28:10] And it's making more and more sense that, yeah, they do have more secrets that we didn't know about besides just what we've already seen, you know? Yeah. I like how we're getting them, though. I like the speed this season. I know that there's been some discussion on some of the Facebook groups that the first few episodes weren't as good or the season, the pacing wasn't right.

[00:28:37] But I feel like the last couple of episodes have really given us a lot to talk about and a lot to think about. Yeah. I feel like I've liked this whole season, but especially the last few, I'm really in it, really in it. Yeah. It's more intense, and I really like this show because it's intense. And so since we've kind of gotten back to that, I'm really loving it. Mm-hmm. So, Wendy, what is your point that you'd like to bring up?

[00:29:06] So that was one of my big points, Jason's point. So I'm just going to talk a little bit about Daphne. How many people were in the original pilot Cannibal Council? Is it eight? Eight. It was eight. Eight. So if it was eight, who am I missing out of the Yellow Jackets? Who is the person that hangs around with Jen that we don't really know her real well? There's Britt and Robin are the two new ones this season.

[00:29:36] They actually, or one of them had lines in this episode, or like a brief line. So that could be Ty, Shauna, Van, Misty, Lottie, Travis, Britt-Robin. Potentially. Yeah. I'm just saying if we're on sides and when we get to the Cannibal Council, they're still

[00:30:01] on different sides because we're assuming that Pit Girl is one of one of the sides, then that would kind of math out. Hannah could be on the council. I do think it would make sense to have next season be the warring season. It does make sense. We have to kill somebody in order for the next season to happen. That's what it wants. Yeah. To figure out who that is. Yeah.

[00:30:27] All right, listeners, submit if you're willing to volunteer as tribute. Sacrifice. I thought it was interesting that we see Van attempting to fix the satellite phone and we see Misty attempting to fix the transponder. And I'm wondering if they're going to, one of them is going to borrow pieces to get the other thing to work.

[00:30:57] That was my thoughts. I don't think Misty was trying to fix the transponder. I think she was getting pieces. She was getting pieces from it. Yeah. To fix the sat phone. To fix the sat phone. Yes. I think so. And what was it that she had in her hand? It's the antenna. Okay. Yeah. Because of course those two things would absolutely match up. Yeah. Oh yeah, I'm sure. Well, we haven't seen if it works yet. But so I thought that was really interesting.

[00:31:22] I love that Nat that she saw her and what did she say? What the fuck are you doing with that? I forget what she said, but I mean, that's a big moment, right? I had always wondered if and when they would find out. And I kind of hoped that it wouldn't be until the adult timeline that they found out because we know that whatever happens, Misty ends up being ingratiated with the group enough to be the servant girl at the Cannibal Council, but it'll still be interesting to see what happens now that they found out what she did.

[00:31:50] Well, just because they found it doesn't mean they know what she did. Right. I guess you're right. She can very easily be like, well, I found it and I hid it because I didn't want to freak everyone else out. Yeah. Yeah. She'd be like, I saw a bear do this. Or Crystal did it. You know, whatever. Well, nobody had to do it because it was in a plane crash. Yeah. Yeah. So. It was all beat up. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:32:13] Did you guys find it interesting that Van is keeping the sat phone a secret kind of away from everyone? Yeah. Well, because she's on Ty's side officially publicly, but she wants to go the fuck home. That's right. Yeah. That's why she's doing it. Yeah. But Ty knows about the sat phone. But does she know that Van brought it back? I don't know. She's trying to fix it. No. But I don't blame Van for doing it. I really don't. No. No way. Yeah.

[00:32:43] So I love that there are two groups now. I don't think we know exactly who's going to end up. Like, I think Misty's questionable and Lottie and Travis were questionable, although they'll probably go with Shauna because Lottie didn't want to leave. So I just it's really fascinating. And just like you said, Jason, that ending season with Nat, that ending scene with Nat was just so palpable.

[00:33:10] You know, like they have no shelter. They only have like light backpacks on with a couple days worth of supplies. It's snowing. You know, they are cut off from everything and they know these girls are going to be after them. So the actress that plays Natalie just did an amazing job with that. She really did. Sophie Thatcher. Sophie Thatcher.

[00:33:40] Yeah. Yeah. She, Natalie looked completely destroyed. Yeah. Sophie Thatcher. Because she realized that they were not going to be able to get out of there. And it was all in her eyes. If I was her in that moment, I would have looked exactly like that. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Yeah. She did something really beautiful with her eyes. And I think they did something with the lighting to play it up where the tears welled up like

[00:34:07] you see in like anime, you know, like the full tears and hadn't started going down her cheek yet, but it made her eyes so intense. I thought it was a really beautiful shot, even though it was about being devastated. That reminded me a lot of how she looked walking back with Javi's body at the end of last season. The same kind of like just despair and self-recrimination. Right. And she convinced all of them to do it.

[00:34:35] Not that I think she was wrong. I don't think she was wrong. You know, her plan wasn't to hurt any of the others. It was just for the people that wanted to leave to leave. Yeah. But she kind of convinced all the others. So now they're all left, you know, abandoned. They're stuck. They have no guide to help them leave. They have no idea how to get out of there.

[00:35:00] And Shawna may not know exactly everyone who was involved or what exactly the plan was, but she knows there was a plan and she has a good idea of who was part of it. Yeah. Sure. There's the paranoia they showed us throughout the whole episode of her like hearing the whispering. Like she knows people are against her. So it's not going to be that difficult for her to figure out. And it's a little camp. They're going to easily be able to figure out who's missing. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[00:35:30] We saw the, we saw Misty and Jen and Melissa were all able to see what happened when Hannah stabbed Cody. So they have like sort of, I guess, plausible deniability because they were technically in camp. But then they immediately leave, which makes them sus. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. Can you imagine you thinking that you're leaving and you're inside your hut and you're just waiting for like the signal to be able to go? Right.

[00:36:00] And then all your hopes of going home. Yeah. Yep. Gone. I never thought Cody was going to lead them out. Did you guys? No, not at all. I knew his days were numbered. I'm grateful that we got Joel McHale for a couple of episodes, but I really didn't think that he was going to last very long. I sure didn't think Hannah would kill him. I thought he might last a little bit longer, but. Yeah.

[00:36:28] I, I didn't think Hannah would be the one to take him out. I thought it would be Shauna. I really did. Yeah. I mean, both Hannah taking him out and, and I know we're going to talk about this, but Melissa taking killing van in both situations, even though I agree. Melissa was sus. Yeah. The way that, uh, Hillary Swank was playing it. And I think this was deliberate on her part and the writers and everybody.

[00:36:56] She's just so calm and like, you know, you shouldn't be doing this and whatever you are. You guys are kind of a little off the deep end, you know? And then next thing you know, I want to do what it says and kill. And it was a shock to me, even though I was also, I mean, not as suspicious as you guys, but kind of. And then with Hannah, it was similar. It's like two in one episode where. Yeah. Don't see it coming at all. Back to back and very similar. I don't think Melissa, adult Melissa was responding to it. Well, she said.

[00:37:25] Did she say it? Yeah. Well, she said, it's telling you to sacrifice me when she was like lying down for van. But when it came time for her to flip, she, it was, I want to, but I do. She said, uh, why can't I be that? You don't want to be van. No, I don't. Van says, no, I don't. And then she stabbed her and said, but I do. Yeah. And then said, isn't this what it wants?

[00:37:52] Oh, I don't know if that means that's what Melissa thinks or if she's just still sort of taunting van for believing in it. But Melissa says, um, come on. You don't really believe that all those sacrifices, those rewards, you know, they weren't real. Van says, I don't know that. And I think there's a part of you that doesn't quite know that either. And Melissa says, but you're different. Meaning. Yeah, you're right. I might believe it, but you're a different fan. There's goodness in you. There's always been. And so I don't know, maybe right, Penny, but it seemed to me that, oh, wow.

[00:38:22] She's more of a wacko than we realized. Oh, well, yeah. Definitely more of a wacko than we realized. And it also made me conclude that sending that tape to Shauna and the little smile I saw on her face when she drove away last episode, she's stirring the pot. All that stuff she said to Shauna about you do this stuff to make yourself feel alive was just projection. I was sussed with her the whole time. She's been going crazy in her boring life.

[00:38:49] And yeah, it might be projection, but it's also true. I don't think Shauna's a pot stirrer. I think Shauna is a reactor. Oh, you're right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We don't know if it's true. Like the things that she was saying, like she was saying, Shauna imagined the freezer and the phone and all those things. And we don't, we don't, we know Misty was the freezer. Yeah. And we don't know if Melissa was the phone or if Melissa killed Lottie. Like Shauna might be spot on. Yeah.

[00:39:18] Yeah, she might. I'm just saying the thing about you, she said a lot of like, you blow things up and someone else has said that to Shauna before too. And you, you hate yourself and you want to spread that around to everybody else. That could be projection on Melissa's part, but it feels kind of true with Shauna too. I only think the projection part was about, I mean, I think a lot of that was true, but specifically the like, you stir the pot to feel more alive. It's just, I don't think that's Shauna's pattern.

[00:39:47] Yeah. We've talked a lot about how Shauna has felt more alive now that all this stuff is starting to happen with yellow jackets and stuff and, you know, having to carve up Adam's body and everything. So that's where I sort of mapped it onto that. But if you're talking about just going out and stirring the pot, maybe not. Yeah. I don't know. But she definitely reacts in a way that escalates things when it doesn't need to sometimes.

[00:40:15] The ultimate understatement in this episode, I may have made things a little bit worse. That was the best. Blood on her face. Blood on the walls. Yeah. In her sweet Shauna voice. Yeah. Oh my God. I loved that. And I loved how the other yellow jackets weren't willing to be like on team Melissa right away either. They were like, as far as we know, you're both fucked up. Like, what's the story? And they're like, Shauna, you didn't.

[00:40:45] And then Melissa, you didn't. And then Shauna, you know, that was fun. They don't know what to believe. And then they were like, yeah, that tracks. Yeah. Yeah. That tracks. Yeah. That sounds like you guys. And then Misty, yeah, she's just like, oh, you just said that, right? I love how she just said, you know what? No, I'm not helping you again. Yeah. Good luck. That actually, my first point is about Misty in this episode.

[00:41:15] Um, I really appreciated that she finally told them they were going to clean up their own mess. Because she's been cleaning up their messes for a long time. And so for her to finally just walk away and not be the one there with the mop and bucket or the knife or whatever, cleaning it up and fixing it. I was really like proud of her in that moment, which I mean, you don't get to be proud of Misty very often, but in this case, I was proud of Misty.

[00:41:45] I'm like, thank you for finally not being a doormat when it comes to them. And Walter is 100% right. Her judgment is clouded when it comes to the yellow jackets. It just is because of everything they went through. And she, you know, can't see that they use her for whatever they need at the time.

[00:42:10] Like a babysitter for Lottie or let's clean up Adam's body or, you know, any of that, that stuff. That's when they call her not, Hey, let's go get a coffee, Misty. She has to initiate that. Although to be fair, except for Ty and Van, none of them initiate social time with each other when it's not need or reaction based. Right.

[00:42:37] Like the beginning of the whole series, you know, Shauna and Ty meet in a diner because Shauna's like, you ran for office. You caused this, you know, woman to come looking for us. Fix it. It wasn't like, let's catch up, Ty. And even when Ty went to her house, she was like, I'm sleepwalking again. I, you know, you're the only person I could come to. And they caught up and they got, you know, they bonded during that time. But it, it wasn't, it didn't start out social. No, it definitely was not.

[00:43:05] And I think they made a pact, I think, to not be in contact with each other, to stay away from each other. Right. Which I'm still not sure that was the right thing to do. Is there a right thing to do? Like. Yeah. Probably not. After coming back from the wilderness for a year and a half where you've eaten and killed several people. Like I. Yeah. It's probably no Google right thing to do. Yeah. Definitely not. It's a strategy.

[00:43:35] I can ask ChatGBT. I get why they made that decision because when they are together, they probably draw a lot more attention. Right. Like, oh, three of the yellow jackets are in this restaurant right now is more likely to cause attention than like, oh, that one woman, I think she was a yellow jacket. She looks like she's out with her family. You know. It does make me wonder if when they were in the restaurant after Natalie's funeral, if

[00:44:04] Melissa was in the restaurant too and that's what Shauna saw when she looked across the restaurant and it looked like she saw someone, but then they didn't really talk about it after that. That's my guess. But I'm not sure. It did seem that she suspected that Melissa was alive before she walked through that door. Yeah. I don't think she expected Melissa to be in that house. In Alex's house? The daughter's house?

[00:44:33] No. But she didn't seem as surprised as she should have. You know, like it didn't seem like she was that surprised that Melissa was still alive. Does she ever seem surprised? No. I don't know. No. So Walter and Misty get back together in this episode, kind of. He tries to impress her with the helicopter. I thought that was kind of cute. Psychotic. Psychotic.

[00:45:03] I'm not sure about this whole DNA and it being Shauna's DNA. There's something about Walter in this episode, especially, that I am just really starting to question. Did he kill Lottie? Did he, you know, what exactly did he do? Because I feel like he's done some things that we're not even sure of yet.

[00:45:31] Like, I'm not sure. But he knows how to schmooze with her. He makes her the chocolate martini and she is there to get from him what she can. She wants the phone. That's why Hold On For One More Day is playing in the background. You gotta hold on for one more day. Yeah.

[00:45:57] I was wondering if he was playing that music or if it was non-diegetic music, you know? Like, is the show playing that? Or is Walter playing that in his house? And does he know it's Misty's song? I spent a lot of time thinking about that. It seems to me like it's playing in his house. Just the way that it sounds. Yeah. So I'm not sure. That's messed up. Yeah.

[00:46:22] But she kind of creates this little diversion of, oh, you forgot the chocolate shaving so that she can look at the phone. And she's like, oh my god. And she takes off. Then he comes back around the corner and his expression to me, he looks a little bugged but also a little bit sinister to me. And not surprised. And not surprised. I think that he loves that Misty keeps surprising him.

[00:46:52] They're a little Sherlock and Moriarty, you know? Yes. And while Misty is very goal-oriented when it comes to Walter, she wants the information he has. I think her desire for him to be her boyfriend is gone for now. Yeah. I think she detests him. But he still likes their relationship and wants it to continue. He thinks they're playing. Yeah. Yeah. She's not playing with him.

[00:47:16] That's a motive for him to have committed the murder if he did is that they could solve a fun crime together. But also, as he says, you know, he doesn't think her friendships with the Yellow Jackets are healthy. So to frame one for murdering the other could maybe drive a wedge between them. And take them out of the picture so he can have her to himself. Yeah. He's territorial.

[00:47:43] I love that he doesn't think those friendships are healthy, but he is. Yeah. Pop killer. And he just won't catch a clue. He's a lot like Misty Canby where... I mean, to me, it just seemed like she wanted to slap him throughout this whole thing. She pretends to laugh at something and as soon as he turns around, she just looks disgusted, you know? And then she just slips out without saying anything once she gets what she wants, which I think was Lottie's phone, right? The clone of her phone.

[00:48:12] But even like when he comes down in a helicopter and he's like, what do you think? And she goes, it's excessive. And he goes, I know, right? Part of me was afraid you'd think it was excessive. Yeah. I think they're not on the same page. She knows what she wants. She wants to get what she can from him. And he just wants to be around her. And I just...

[00:48:40] I think Misty is smarter than Walter at this point. She sees something on the phone that shocks her. And... Right. What is that? I wonder what the hell that is. And you'd think Walter would have seen that. But maybe he didn't know what it meant. Or I'm worried he put it there. Right. Or maybe it's like the Chinese trash that like he saw the picture but didn't have a context to know what it meant. That she did. Yeah.

[00:49:10] Yeah. That's what I was kind of thinking. I can't guess what it was because there's no way Walter hasn't seen pictures of all the yellow jackets. Right? So let's say it was a picture of Melissa. He would know that that was on the phone and maybe take it off or manipulate it in some way. Yeah. It seems like it would have to do something with Lottie. Yeah. Some kind of revelation or something. Yeah. Something about how she died.

[00:49:35] My only other takeaway from that whole scene is that I want a chocolate martini with an heirloom cacao bar shavings. Yes. It did look good. Absolutely. And she wisely didn't take a drink out of it. But then after she snuck away, he took a sip. Yeah. I'm like, okay, it was fine this time. Yeah. I never accepted drink from Walter. Yeah. No. She's kind of treating him the way she treated the tech. Yeah. That was doing the DNA test.

[00:50:05] Yeah. Like, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, got what I want. Bye. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're not on the same page anymore. Even the Uber driver, she was like, oh, I'll look for you on Etsy. Like, she's not going to ever remember that dude. No, of course not. That is my point. So that brings us around to Penny. Oh, cool.

[00:50:30] I want to talk about Travis and Lottie and that whole deal. First of all, now we know how the pit got those spikes in it. Apparently, Travis put them in there. And I'm impressed. They were meant for Lottie. I'm impressed with how fast and capable he was at putting in spikes that we see in the very first episode are incredibly sturdy. Right? Like, they don't fall over or anything. How does he know how to do that? Yeah. How did he figure that out? Yeah.

[00:50:59] And how did he do that without everyone being like, what you doing, Travis? Right over there in the woods near us. Like, I think it's a bit away. But still. Yeah. It's a bit away. Cut a lot of wood. Yeah. Sharpen them. Dig them. Let's just. Okay. Department of Suspension. Suspending my disbelief for a minute. But, you know, he lures Lottie out into the woods with this like, you know, I need someone to help me interpret how the wilderness is talking to me garbage. That we know now that he does not believe it.

[00:51:30] And Lottie seemingly knows it's a trap. Like, she sort of is like, oh, you want me to walk on top of this clear trap here? All right. I'll do it. It seemed like it. But she. Yeah, the way she was looking at him. And she seemed utterly confident that the wilderness, either she believes that if she died, the wilderness is making a good decision and she trusts in that. Or that the wilderness wouldn't choose her and somehow she would survive. But I can't imagine what effect that had on Travis. Like, is he all the way back into believing in Lottie again now?

[00:52:00] I hope not. I really got the impression that he wants to get the hell out of there. And I wish he'd been successful in making that happen with Cody. I thought you were going to say you wish he'd killed Lottie. I'm like, no, that wouldn't work. No, no, no. Who was that woman? No, I don't dislike this teen Lottie. I think there's a lot of reasons that she is the way that she is. So I don't dislike her.

[00:52:28] But I really think Travis wants to go home. Yeah, he does. And he was struggling with it. I mean, he sort of talked himself into it at the last minute there. And he just seemed very resigned that this was the only course of action that he could think of that would get them home or get him home anyway. Yeah. Yeah. And I think I kind of have to – I don't know if I'd exactly call it suspend disbelief here.

[00:52:55] But it seems pretty crazy to me that you would jump to that, you know, kill someone. Your friend. I know. I mean, I understand where he's coming from because I still maintain that he didn't want to bring Cody back there because he thought Lottie might kill him too. And he thought the best way to get them out there was to just get out as quickly as possible and send someone back.

[00:53:16] But now that they are back to try to kill her versus just try to get some people to group together and say, hey, we're leaving or something like that. Yeah, it's a pretty extreme choice. Seems like a jump. It was only a week ago that he changed his vote on Coach because of her. Because of her. Yeah. That was like a week ago. Yeah. But I feel like he's been bonding more with Akilah. Yeah. Well, he's been sober.

[00:53:45] I mean, I've been mad at a friend before, but – Yeah. They're still alive. Yeah. I'm not a good spike maker, so – Yeah. Yeah. And so then – so – well, I'm sorry, Penny. It's your point. No, I was basically – I just wanted to open the conversation to talk about it. Like – and if he had killed Lottie, like, then was – what was he going to do about Shauna and Ty? Right. Right.

[00:54:10] I mean, I think he thinks that for one – that he's saying, you know, you're bullshit and you're ruining all of this for us. So, I think he realizes or thinks that her mysticism or whatever you want to call it is influencing people to do the wrong thing, right? And to want to stay out there.

[00:54:35] And Akilah, she left that trail for them to find him and Cody and her because she's loyal to Lottie and she's been doing those gas – cave gas visions and everything. So, he's just like, that is infecting us and giving us bad ideas.

[00:54:51] So, then to have her Lottie say that I want you to feel Javi and then the wind kicks up and then she walks out onto this twig thing that was covering the pit that he had tested with the log. So, they really made a point to show that it should break and then it didn't. Then that has me questioning things too. Yeah. Like, what the hell? How could that happen if it wasn't supernatural? Yeah.

[00:55:17] I don't have an explanation for it unless, you know, he accidentally made the twig thing stronger than he intended. But that seems like it would be hard. Yeah. Or it's just his perception. Yeah. Did we see her walk on it? Yes. I mean – Okay. But are we seeing his perception? Just like we see the hallucinations. Those are real to those people. Are we actually here right now?

[00:55:47] No, I'm just kidding. Oh, wow. They show her walking around and it's in the spot like in front of where Travis was and where he's looking. And I think that's where the trap is. But what they didn't show was specifically like her feet on the twig thing. There's a chance that there was something else going on there, but that feels like a really big stretch. Yeah. They didn't have a – if I remember right, I should have looked harder, but like a real clear shot of her standing right in the middle of it.

[00:56:15] But it sure did seem like that's what the idea was. Yeah. She like turned around and is looking at him and he had been facing the pit. And she just like sort of smiles at him and looks at him like, okay, I did it. I stood on top of your trap. And he looks stunned. I don't know if I could go on not believing in something supernatural after witnessing that. Travis should go like jump up and down. Just kidding. No. Let's not do that.

[00:56:46] Okay, Jason. You're up. My turn. Okay. Hmm. Should I do this one? It's kind of anti-Shauna. Well, how people see adult Shauna. So a lot of times you can tell a lot about someone by how other people talk about them. And when Vanty and Misty bring Melissa back to Melissa's house, Shauna wants to tie her up. And so she admitted she sent the tape, which means she killed Lottie.

[00:57:16] And then Misty says, you killed Lottie because you have DNA under your fingernails. And, um, but Shauna's like, Melissa sent the tape. So she's the one who left the phone and cut my brakes and locked me in the freezer. And Misty says, oh, for the love of God, the freezer was me. What? The lock's been broken for months. I would have warned you, but you've been such an absolute asshole that I thought a little time in the freezer would do you some good.

[00:57:42] I thought, well, that's kind of like you could have killed her, you know, she could have frozen to death. And they all just kind of shrug it off. But Ty says she doesn't think Shauna killed Lottie and they need to fix this situation. But that's when Misty says, no, this is Shauna's mess and she can find some other maid to clean it up. Um, that, so I, why did I have that in this point?

[00:58:10] Just because it's sort of like a battle between whether it's Melissa or Shauna who's the cause of the problems. And then Ty says, well, her family's going to come home soon and we still have a big fucking problem to solve. Melissa says, I'm not the problem. Shauna's the problem. You both know it as well as I do. Van says, not entirely inaccurate. Shauna, come on, come on. And Ty says, this is kind of like Adam. Van says, except there's no body yet. Melissa says, who's Adam?

[00:58:40] Shauna's like, why'd you say that? Melissa's like, this happened before and there was a body? Shauna said, you just dug her grave. You know that, right? Melissa says, so Shauna acted like a lunatic and killed this Adam, made you guys clean it up. So she put you at risk. And let me guess, she was wrong then too. And just hearing all that, I'm like, man, it feels like she took the dialogue out of a podcast from a previous season that I said and gave it to her.

[00:59:08] But then Shauna's like, about Melissa, her family doesn't even know her real name. What kind of a psychopath brings home a dead woman's tape and then marries her daughter? And she turned out to be right too. That's right. Yeah, about that. So anyway, I just kind of like that they're all sort of rationally talking about what they've done. You know, like, yeah, we've all done some bad. You've done some bad things. And then with Jeff and Callie.

[00:59:38] Well, one thing, the Joel's offered Jeff the furniture job. Yay! Went for Jeff. Which, yeah, we like that. And I mean, I always thought he had a chance at it. And I think the point is that Shauna blew it up, right? He could have gotten it if she hadn't been there, but then he saved it. And then him and Callie are smoking out. And they're having a second conversation kind of coming to terms with Shauna because they also did last week.

[01:00:07] But Callie says, you know, did you mean everything you said to the Joel's? Because I feel that way too. And he was basically saying she's unhinged, right? That Shauna's unhinged. It's hard being married with your mom. It's lonely. God, it's lonely. Which, that was an interesting thing to say. And it made me think back to when we first saw them as a couple. They were going to a sex therapist, right? Marriage counseling. Doing role play. Yeah. Yeah, right. Marriage counseling, yeah.

[01:00:35] And then over the course of the series, they started to feel more together when she was getting into trouble and he had to help her. And I thought maybe that's one reason why he was so on board with all that because it made him feel closer to her. But now it's just gotten to be too much. And that's two episodes in a row with Jeff and Callie kind of coming to terms together that Shauna has issues. So it feels like that's leading somewhere. And I don't know where some kind of confrontation between the three of them or something like that, you know? Yeah.

[01:01:04] Last week, Jason, you were saying that you thought Jeff was pulling away from Shauna. And I have come around to that opinion as well. When Callie is like, you know, when they're talking about the $80 stakes and Callie says, mom would kill us if we spent that much money. And he's like, yep, she would. Like, he doesn't – he's intending to do it anyway. Like, I mean, he is stoned at that moment.

[01:01:27] But I think that's – I think that was very telling that Jeff was like, I'm through letting your mom's whims and desires run everything in this house and in our family. And I don't know how serious it is or what it means. Is he thinking of a divorce? Is he thinking of having a good talk with her or something between, you know? We don't know. But I was so excited that somebody finally shared their chronic with Jeff. Yes. He deserves it.

[01:01:57] Yes. I felt a little weird about seeing them smoke out together, but it was also really fun. Yeah. I mean, I think that there is a rare time when a parent and child, you know, doing drugs together isn't horrible. You know what I mean? Isn't abusive. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But they've been through some stuff together. And she's had to mature a lot recently. And it was her weed. It's not like he gave her weed. Yeah. So – Top shelf.

[01:02:26] I feel like on balance, I'm okay with it. Yeah. But I wouldn't suggest it for most parent-child pairings. I think it's inappropriate. Yeah. Maybe on – just like on Easter or something. Yeah. You know, it's like my mom was so excited when all of us were over 21 and she could like have alcohol with us. Like she was like – but she waited. She didn't – she wasn't one of those parents. I had friends whose parents were like, here you go, kid. Have a beer at 12. Mm-hmm.

[01:02:55] I had friends who let their kids drink at very young ages. I think like we did when like the kids were like 20, if they were home with us and then it was like half a drink. Yeah. I think that's how – that's appropriate. Or being like you can have a tiny amount of wine at a special occasion like a wedding or something. Yeah. But like sitting down and like smoking out with your kid if the parent starts it is not cool. Yeah.

[01:03:24] I appreciated that he kind of broke down and told her that marriage wasn't easy and he's lonely. You know, being married to Shauna is making him very lonely. You can tell he's a super social, outgoing guy. And she is not. And she doesn't share herself with him. He is alone. Yeah. She has lately, but before that. Yeah.

[01:03:51] And being out with her, with the Joles, you know, she's not the kind of wife who can just make the best of it and socialize. Yeah. Definitely not. I think in another world – And maybe she would have a couple years ago, but now – Yeah, maybe. Not with everything that's happened. In another world, Jeff is married to somebody more like Jackie who would have parties at the house and have people over and be the head of the PTA and like be that person that makes more sense with him.

[01:04:19] But, you know, that's not how it ended up happening. And he is in love with Shauna for better or worse. Some of us like the darkness. Well, I think, too, that Jeff and Callie have bonded over the fact that Shauna has shut them both out of things. Yeah. She's been so disconnected from them that they have found some common ground together.

[01:04:44] Like their relationship has really grown through this season, I think especially. It's awesome. Remember when they would sit at the table and he would tell his dad jokes and she would roll her eyes? Yeah. Yep. And now they're smoking out together and giggling. We've come a long way. Yeah. Okay, Wendy. I'm going to talk about the adult timeline. Getting over the chewing situation.

[01:05:14] All the girls discover Melissa by the side of the road and they really work as a team to get her out. So, like, Misty pulls a crowbar out of the trunk of her car. Always prepared. Misty is the eternal Girl Scout. And I just love watching them all in action, even if it's disturbing. Yeah. They don't even know.

[01:05:42] They're not even like, oh, yeah, there's a reason we need to get here. They're just like, we know her. Kidnap her just in case it's going to be helpful. Well, they're like, that's weird. And then she starts running. First, they're like, because first Misty just goes, Melissa. And then Melissa takes off. And when. Yeah. If only she'd just been like, oh, my God. Yeah, I'm alive. No. And she does have blood all over her face. Yeah. That's true.

[01:06:07] But her reaction is like, I mean, I would too if I knew what she knew. You see Misty and, well, Misty pretty much. And she just goes, oh, shit. Yeah. I'd run from Misty if I saw her now in real life. Christina Ricci was like signing autographs at a convention. And I'm like, nope, too scary. Gotta go. And when we get back to the house, Shauna is already in cleanup mode. I give her credit for that. She didn't call Misty.

[01:06:36] She was starting on her own. She had rubber gloves. Don't know where she got them. Yeah. And like there's blood everywhere. Like, how are you cleaning this up? And I love how she says, I might have made this a little bit worse. And then Shauna tells them that she went to go get a cat. That was her alibi, which I believe. Like, I believe that she did not do it and she did go get the cat. Yeah.

[01:07:06] Well, we know she got the cat. Yeah. But I mean, I believe that's all she did. And Misty dead faces. That was a totally satisfying answer. Like, nobody believes Shauna. And we talked about how Misty is tired of cleaning up their messes. Um, I totally think Walter is sus and has no good intentions for Misty.

[01:07:33] Um, and then there's kind of an awkward back and forth and a lot of monologuing with, um, the adults, um, which ultimately leads to Van's death. Um, I thought it was a little tedious, maybe. Maybe I was just thinking like, how could this be a plan if you were going to kill Melissa? Why would you kill her on her living room floor?

[01:08:03] Um, Melissa closed the flu, um, which would normally, you know, cause a fire and smoke to fill up in the house. But that didn't seem to happen. But all, but also that's what made Thaisa pass out. It's so it's a gas, uh, fireplace, right? So you just turn on the gas. Well, I asked chat, chat GPT, what would happen if you close the flu in a gas powered fireplace?

[01:08:33] It said, uh, if you close the flu in a gas powered fireplace while it's running dangerous combustion gases, like carbon monoxide won't have a way to escape. Instead, they'll build up inside your home, creating a serious health risk. And then I asked if, if it was realistic that they would pass out before noticing what was happening. And they said, carbon monoxide is odorless. Um, so then they said, uh, I said, would they figure it out? This is the tricky part. CO poisoning is sometimes called the silent killer because it impairs judgment as it builds up.

[01:09:03] The people in the room might feel groggy, confused, or even too weak to react in time. Um, so for me, it was plausible enough to suspend any disbelief. By the way, chat GPT was like, why are you asking? Are you doing some kind of an experiment or something? I'm like, it's a TV show. Okay. Oh, we are, we are all in trouble if our chat GPT is getting being met. Oh my goodness. Uh, was Melissa counting on being close enough to the door that once the other women passed

[01:09:33] out, she could get there and she wouldn't have passed out because she was also closest to the actual gas. Well, and she was tied up and before Ty passed out, you think she would say, Hey, you need to open that flu up. Um, but it was weird to me. I've had a gas fireplace and it didn't have a flu at all. It just was like a on and off switch and that was it. So I've had a wood fireplace that had a flu and I know what happens when you forget to do that. Yeah. House full of smoke. You just smoke in the house. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:10:03] Um, so I thought that was a little odd. And then I thought like van, if you were really going to kill Melissa, would you untie her first? No, no, but I bet it's all for, um, to get us to where we're going. And I wasn't sure what was going to happen. But as soon as van put that knife down, I knew what was going to happen. I just knew it. Yeah.

[01:10:31] And I was like, Oh no, no, no, no, no. Not van. Not van. Oh. Yeah. I was surprised. Yeah. Lauren Ambrose. And then I love how, if it's okay to skip to her on the plane, the same thing that Matt was in, same plane. And, and they're watching it on the in-flight movie and young, that's like, I mean, the young van's like, I know it's hard to watch, but the way the adult van responded was like us, that's it. I'm dead.

[01:11:03] Right. Right. And still her sassy, sarcastic self. And then she said, you know, yeah. Why'd you tell me to do this? If you knew that's how it ended. Cause there was that whole Goonies thing that we didn't really talk about in the hospital room. Like she's on a hero's quest for treasure. Well, you saved the love of your life. Isn't that the greatest treasure? And I assumed she meant, well, she dragged a tie out of the house with the carbon monoxide, right? Yeah.

[01:11:30] But they never would have gotten there if they didn't leave the hospital the way young van told her to. Oh, but she also, it seems enabled good tie to overcome bad tie. Yeah. And take possession again of tie's body. That's what I thought she meant. Right. Interesting. And she was dying. Yeah. Who have we seen on the plane? I know we saw Nat and van. Did we see Jackie on the plane?

[01:12:00] No. I don't think we did. No. It's just those two? When Nat was on the plane, Javi was there. So I went back and watched that scene again. Javi said, there's nothing to be afraid of. You know, Nat says, no, I'm not supposed to be there. Then young Nat's there. We both know that's not true. This is exactly where we belong. We've been here for years. Then young Lottie's there. Natalie, it's not evil. Just hungry like us.

[01:12:30] Just let it in. And so it's very unclear what the fuck is going on. Yeah. But I don't think either one of these scenes necessarily is like a supernatural post-death thing. I think they could be hallucinations as they're dying because they cut back and forth. Yeah. I think so too. I thought it was really interesting that the plane that both Nat and Van are on, it looked like the same plane. I went back and watched it also. It's more modern and it's all blue.

[01:12:59] Like all the seats are blue and the colors are blue. And the plane, it's not the plane they crashed in. That had only a center aisle and it was all brown. It's like a heavenly plane or something. So it's just interesting that they would have the same plane, but not the plane that they crashed in. That's the thing. I was just thinking, yeah, you just said it, but okay, I'm trying to rationalize how it could not be supernatural. It's just like they say that when you are close to death, you might have these hallucinations because some chemicals are released in your brain.

[01:13:28] But would they have the exact same thing? That seems pretty supernatural to me. Yeah. I thought the reason that Van, as in that scene, only sees teen Van is that herself is the only person that she actually trusts. That could be. And she said, now I'm dead. And young Van said, surviving this was never the reward, which I'm, is she saying there's

[01:13:53] some other reward coming or that death is the reward because it's better than living with all this trauma. Then Van says, what does that mean? If this isn't the ending, then tell me what happens. And she goes, where would be the fun in that? So it's very curious, but hard to decipher. It could mean anything. Maybe she's not really dead and she's in a coma. In this very calm way, she's talking to her.

[01:14:16] Like, it's so, like, nice and not, it just didn't seem like, yes, you're dying in this solemn occasion. It just seemed very, like she did earlier in the day when they were in the hospital and Van said, is this a dream? Am I dead? And teen Van says, death is around every corner. Yeah. It was very matter of fact.

[01:14:43] Whereas Natalie's plain experience was, she was clearly afraid and grieving. She was crying and didn't want it to happen. And, you know, she made like that face, like, you know, like she didn't want to go into the light. Van was more like she always is. It's like, it's like her personality never changes. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty steady. So just the fact of losing another yellow jacket and we lost Lottie earlier.

[01:15:11] And I remember when we lost adult Nat, I thought, oh, that seems early, but we know that at least it's reported Juliette Lewis didn't want to do anymore. Right. So then I was surprised that we lost Lottie, especially when I looked it up and found out Simone Kessel did want to do more. And I don't know, I didn't look up Lauren Ambrose. Well, it's probably not out in public yet as we're watching this, but it's, I wonder, it's so weird to have these characters dying.

[01:15:40] And in ways, I guess they don't feel satisfying to me right now. I'm just hoping once the whole thing is finished and we have the full picture of it, that it will feel satisfying. And it's, it's, it's, it's not horrible. It's shocking. It's interesting, but there's something where I'm like, I want this to mean something, you know, Lottie just falling downstairs and I'm wanting it to mean something. It's a little final destination, right?

[01:16:09] Like death didn't get you when it was supposed to. So it's going to come for you. However, it finds a way. Yeah. I liked Van's death. I thought, you know, we knew she was sick and dying. We didn't know what was going to happen with that. And then we thought they were going to have to kill Melissa and where are they going to kill Melissa and back and forth and back.

[01:16:30] And we've had this question, all these episodes of whether Van and or Ty would kill to save her. And, and we got the answer. The answer is that Van could not do that. She, that was not who she was. And so that makes me more curious about what we're going to see from young Van as the stakes

[01:16:58] get increased. Yeah. I wonder if she'll, I wonder if Ty and Van, young Ty and young Van will end up in different factions. It makes you wonder because we know that Taisa is capable of more when it comes to that. So I'm, I'm curious. That's for sure. Yeah. She just started casually saying, oh, we're going to have to kill these scientists. Yeah.

[01:17:25] Although she hasn't as herself done anything horrible yet. But the, it's been dark tie. And even in the adult timeline, dark tie is the one that, you know, murdered the dog and all that other stuff. I don't think that the show ends and Taisa has not done anything horrible. I think it's, it's coming. Yeah. Yeah. And I think dark tie is present in the, in the nineties.

[01:17:52] But I also think good tie or regular tie is going to do some horrible stuff too. I mean, cause she was going to suffocate that heart attack patient and couldn't bring herself to do that. Whether or not that was dark tie or regular tie, I don't know. No, I'm sure it was regular tie because this whole thing is about dark ties saying you never had what it took to do. Yeah. It's just, I don't know how they're going back and forth and. Yeah. It's not clear.

[01:18:19] In the, in the teen timeline, it was all about while she was sleeping or when something very stressful happened. And, but this seems to be happening at the hospital, like on a moment's notice back and forth. Yeah. Yeah. Her eyes turn color. So that's one way to tell. Yeah. I'm just kidding. I think that with Taisa, one indicator when in the teen timeline, when Taisa is saying good

[01:18:45] thing you've been practicing with the cards, which we talked about to me, that's definitely something that dark tie would be saying. Not, not good tie or regular tie. I don't know. I don't really trust regular tie to not be sneaky and underhanded. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. I mean, like when she was running for office, she didn't want to, you know, do the attack ad against the other guy, but she called him and threatened him with it. Mm-hmm.

[01:19:15] Threatening is one thing. Following through with it is something else. So I don't know. But it was still skeezy. It was. But so was his ad. Yeah. And also her running in the first place was a huge betrayal of all the other yellow jackets. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it could have been one of the catalysts that got this whole thing going. I mean, not just Jessica Roberts, you know, doing or digging into the backgrounds and everything,

[01:19:44] but sometimes you don't poke the bear. Yeah. Or. The wilderness. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. That was it for me. Okay. So what I have left are notes. So we can, I can hold off and we can move to Jason. Okay. If you want. So my last one is called dots that don't connect. And it's a theme that I hit every once in a while.

[01:20:12] How, you know, this show is about making meaning, seeing patterns where there may be patterns there, or it may be unrelated coincidence. One of the original ones was Jeff with a blonde woman at a hotel turned out to be a lone shark or whatever. But we are meaning making machines, which I think is a phrase from landmark forum, but I've never taken that, but I believe it. We like to connect dots.

[01:20:39] And so like Shauna, when there's things like the phone playing queen of hearts or her being locked in the freezer or breaks being cut and Lottie dying, then she, and maybe we suspect it might all be connected. And I think especially when you're watching a show, you think that because, or reading a book or watching movie because writers imbue meaning in things, of course, that's kind of the point.

[01:21:04] But I think yellow jackets intentionally has at least some misleading dots that don't actually connect because that's part of what the show is about. How sometimes we make meaning that isn't really there. And then we act in extreme ways because we form beliefs around it and it's based on something that's not actually true. So one thing here in this episode, one example is probably anyway, that this name, Eric Chung was in Cody's rucksack, which got Hannah to doubt him.

[01:21:33] And maybe if that name hadn't been in there, he may have survived. Maybe not, but it could have led to her deciding to kill him. Um, even though he probably did just get it from a thrift shop. That's the most likely explanation for something like that. If you have a rucksack that doesn't have your name on it. I mean, if you're a shady guy, maybe you wouldn't carry a rucksack around with the name of the guy that you killed or something, you know? So, um, and, but it seems weird for that detail to be randomly in a show.

[01:22:02] But I think the point of this show is that sometimes things are just random and meaningless. Um, Shauna thinks that since Melissa admitted, she sent the tape that she's the one who did all the other stuff, but then Misty's like, no, I locked you in the freezer. So at least that dot doesn't connect with the others. But like you said, Wendy, that doesn't mean that Melissa didn't do all the other stuff. Um, we don't know. Um, they thought the screams in the forest were supernatural, but it was Arctic banshee

[01:22:30] frogs and, and then, uh, but then the wind kicks up right when Lottie says she wanted to show Travis that Javi was present and that could totally just be a coincidence, but then they have her walking right out onto those twigs. And that's like, there's always stuff that's harder for me to explain. And I start to think either they're just pushing it really far.

[01:22:55] What could be explained in non-supernatural ways because it's a show and shows push things sometimes, or it's just supernatural, you know? So I don't know that theme keeps coming up over and over again. I think, I think it's just an integral part of this show about whether things mean something or not. Yeah. And how people react to it. They make you question everything that you're watching. You just can't watch it without that lens.

[01:23:23] It's funny because I find myself even in shows that I'm not podcasting about that. I start to watch the show with the podcasters lens and because we've learned to pay attention so closely to little details. I had to catch myself. I think Severance, I was watching Severance and that was what was happening. It's like, I'm not podcasting on it, but I'm making these mental notes of all these little things that I'm seeing. So, yeah.

[01:23:53] I wouldn't be surprised if all of us at least one point or another have thought, oh, I got to write that down. I'm like, no, I don't have to write that down. That's been happening to me with Severance as well. I mean, that's a show that you need to watch closely anyway or you'll miss huge important points. But I get like, oh, God, I got to remember that this is connected to that other thing. And I'm like, no, I don't. There's no test. But that show, I do think every detail means something. It really does.

[01:24:22] Now that makes me want to go start from the beginning again. Yes. I feel like you have to because there's so much. So, Penny. All right. Ending on music. There was a lot of great music in this episode. Callie, while she's rolling a joint, there was the song YSFP, which stands for You're So Fucking Pretty by Red Ribbons. It's a little punky, but it's like also about being pretty. Suits Callie to me.

[01:24:52] But then later when she and Jeff are smoking, it's Stone Temple Pilots Creep, which has to be a Jeff song from his era as a teenager. I thought it was hilarious. I don't think it's Creep. Creep is Radiohead, right? It's Half the Man. No, no. It's called Creep. But Half the Man I is part of the lyrics. Half the man I used to be. Yeah. And they placed that lyric in between him being like, marriage is hard. Half the man I used to be in marriage to your mother is lonely.

[01:25:21] And I thought that was just excellent sound editing. I thought it was hilarious that she's using like a kitchen cheese grater to grind her weed. Like, I don't know. That was just funny to me. He's like, the nugs are too big. You're not going to get any of the smoke. When Shauna is brooding in her hut and gets suspicious and discovers Cody and Hannah trying to escape, the song is Dear One by Pisces.

[01:25:48] And you know, I thought I wrote the lyrics here and they're not in my notes. But that's also playing while Melissa defects and the plan starts to unfold. We already talked about Hold On by Wilson Phillips. Playing at Walters. It's Misty's song. And then very meaningfully, the song playing when Van is dying and on the plane is called Exit Music for a Film. It's by Radiohead.

[01:26:16] And Radiohead was also the music when Nat was on the plane. That one was called Street Music Fade Out. Is that the title of it? I always get that title messed up in my head. The lyrics there, Right If She's Dying, is something about a spineless laugh, which I just thought was really creepy and gross. And then what really touched me...

[01:26:43] Oh, and then the lyrics are, We hope that you choke, that you choke, that you choke. Keeps getting repeated in the lyrics of that song. And then as Van is watching Ty scream and cry over her body, it switches to Glycerin by Nirvana, which was their make-out music. And it just made me really sad. I think it's Bush. Is that originally Nirvana? Oh, it's Bush? I'm wrong. Okay. I'm wrong. Yeah. Bush, yeah. Glycerin.

[01:27:08] But that song, yeah, too, the Radiohead one I read, they wrote for Romeo and Juliet. And it just has a... Oh, that movie? Tragic. Yeah, the Basler-Man one. It just has a tragic feel. Yeah. It's... This death, Van's death, as much as I like Van, didn't hit me as hard as Natalie's did. And I think part of it was the way that Van was in the scene, where she was sort of like, I die? What? What?

[01:27:35] Whereas Natalie was so terrified, I think that made it harder for me to absorb it. We're more used to them dying now, too, maybe? Well, and she had terminal cancer. We kind of were bracing ourself. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I felt like she was watching a movie of her life, basically, when she was sitting on the plane. Like, the ending of the movie, yeah. I have to just put this out into the universe, that if there is an afterlife, I really don't want to be on an airplane. Like, can I have something else? No.

[01:28:05] I hate airplanes. How about a train? A train would be okay. Or like a boat? A nice luxury train. I like boats. Mm-hmm. I like planes. I like air travel. You like planes? Yeah. I love, like, when you're taking off and landing. I like that. Wow. I don't know. I think I've ever heard anyone say that. I like the taking off part. I love that. Yeah. I, ever since I, like, grew taller than, like, 5'1", airplanes are nothing but, like, a torture chamber. I feel like I... Well, yeah.

[01:28:34] I don't like sitting there for a part. Yeah. I feel, I always... But I do like the... I feel dirty. I feel cramped. I hate them. Yeah. I do like the taking off. Yeah, that part's cool. And I like looking out the window at things being really tiny. I love that. Yeah. So, Wendy, do you have any more points? A little point I had about Hannah, and I know we talked about Hannah, but I thought she was really smart from the get-go.

[01:28:57] Like, she immediately tries to make herself the friend of the girls, and she talks about her daughter and makes things really personal so that Melissa sees her as a person. She makes Melissa think that she could be trusted and that she would keep quiet. And I think, like, that's what I would do, right? I mean, you would... Yeah.

[01:29:21] I mean, yes, you'd be looking for your way to escape, but in the meantime, you're just doing whatever you can do to convince these people that they shouldn't kill you. Yeah. And I love how Shauna's like, she just wants you to feel bad for her. She's manipulating you. Melissa goes, I don't think that she is, and I do feel kind of bad for her. But she was. Yeah. I mean, and she may have... Been truthful. Right. May be the truth.

[01:29:50] But the reason why she was making it so personal was to try to get them to see her as a person. It's harder to kill some random... It's harder to kill somebody that you've started to feel empathy for than it is some random guy like Cody kind of made himself. Yes. Yeah. You're right. And manipulative isn't the right word, especially if she's being completely honest. It's just trying to connect to save her life. Oh, I think she was a little manipulative.

[01:30:17] I mean, when she got home, she was immediately going to go to the police. I don't blame her. Right. But I also think that Shauna's been manipulative as well. Oh, yeah. I mean... Especially to Melissa. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Oh, very manipulative to Melissa. That relationship is all kinds of unhealthy. Yeah. They shouldn't be around each other, honestly. But I did think Shauna was missing her because you could see when Shauna was laying in bed alone,

[01:30:45] she kept looking over at where Melissa probably would have slept. So I do think, you know, she's feeling the loneliness or the breakup or whatever it is. So I interpreted that as, that bitch is out there betraying me. I just know it. Well, I don't think she expected her to come back into her hut. Like, she took her stuff, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She did.

[01:31:11] Which is why Shauna was so pissed and went after her and shot her jacket. I mean, she was really angry. Yeah. I have one note that we haven't talked about, and it involves Shauna and Hannah, and it has to do with the little piece of hair that Shauna found on the tree. And Shauna has taken it back to her hut, and she's just, like, holding it and touching it in her fingers.

[01:31:40] And I'm thinking, is this part of the beginning of those pieces of hair that we see that are on the Antler Queen's costume? And is that Shauna? Costume or? I think the answer to all those questions is yes, but we'll see. Yeah. We'll see. Yeah. I think so, too. And that's some serial killer shit. Like, this is my trophy. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That was disturbing. Yeah. Very much so.

[01:32:07] It's also, I think, I mean, just tribal. So that was my main note. So we could go through what notes everyone has. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I basically just have one that we haven't really talked about, and it's when we want to leave the Get the Fuck Out team or meeting. They're talking about winter, and Mari's like, I can't go through another winter. And Akilah says, if we have to do that, I hope the wilderness chooses me first.

[01:32:36] And I thought it was just the saddest thing I ever heard. I know. Mm-hmm. Like, oh, my God. That is so bleak. And I kind of understand where she's coming from because the experience of the previous winter was so horrific. But also wishing that you, it just, oh, I had to pause my computer and, like, sit with it for a little while because it really affected me. Yeah. Yeah. I hope it's not foreshadowing, but it could be.

[01:33:05] I mean, she's not in the modern timeline. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That we know of. So, Wendy, what do you have? Melissa's quote, she made me eat my fucking arm, was glorious. And they're like, even the yellow jackets are like, oh, God. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:33:33] Sean has gone back to the old days and her old ways. Oh, you know what we haven't talked about is the title, how the story ends. And, you know, before watching the episode, I was like, that's weird. It makes it sound like a final episode, but it can't be. And it's because Van is the storyteller. Right. And it's the end of her story. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm like, is this how all their stories end?

[01:34:00] And then I'm like, well, kind of is how all our stories end. Eventually, that's where we all go. But there was some tease, like, I don't know if it was meant to come off this way, but there is some reward or something that the show is building to that we don't know about yet. Yeah, I agree. What is the reward if that's not the ending?

[01:34:24] Van, when they find Melissa in the minivan, Van says X marks the spot. And it's a big railroad crossing sign. I thought that was interesting. Yeah. And then I had a little medical pet peeve. Why are there ventilator noises coming from Van when she's simply on oxygen? And didn't even really need that. Exactly. I wondered the same thing.

[01:34:54] What about you, Jason? Do you have any notes? Just a couple. When they said to take, someone said, I think, well, they were taking the scientists, Hannah and Cody, to the animal pen. And they took their shoes, right? And I thought, oh, fuck, are they going to slip their Achilles heels, too? I don't want to see that. No. Thankfully, they didn't. But then there was a part of me that was like, why not? That's what you do, right? They wanted Cody to be able to still walk them out of there.

[01:35:24] Oh, that's true. Yeah, yeah. Okay. If they decided to do that. Yeah. But you think Shauna might suggest that or something. Misty, I thought it was pretty funny when she suggested churning butter in Colonial Williamsburg after finding Shauna. And she said it was an alibi. Oh, that mistake. But, you know, in part is just because she thought it would be fun. Well, and also, that's what Shauna and Jeff talked about, right? On season one. Oh, wow. Oh, I didn't remember that. That's funny. That's right.

[01:35:53] And Shauna said she went there when she was in first grade and churned butter. Oh, wow. I forgot about that. I like when Jeff said to Callie, is that weed, Callie Sudecky? Are you rolling a joint? And she goes, I can't find my pipe.

[01:36:14] We are back with some listener buzz.

[01:36:46] We'll just kick it off with Penny. We'll go in the same order. All right. Jason Burke says, hello. It's my first time writing to the podcast. I have one opinion, one theory, and one prediction. My opinion. Melissa's relationship with Shauna was like that of a, quote, prison bitch. Close quotes. It was one that consolidated power and provided Melissa protection, lest the team grow hungry in the upcoming winter.

[01:37:12] I don't mean this to denigrate those incarcerated, and I don't mean to imply it was non-consensual. But tell me I'm wrong. My theory. If the wilderness is truly supernatural, it could be a Wendigo, maybe in spirit only. But the Lakota tribe told of this demon that would arrive in times of starvation and perhaps manifest from cannibalism. Community repels it. My prediction. We'll lose more yellow jackets, but the happiest ending will be Misty as she'll be in prison,

[01:37:42] running things like a pod boss and actually kind of enjoying it. I love the podcast and love the show. More Cassie and Jeff team-ups. I'd watch that series, Misty in Prison. Me too, 100%. 100%. I, the question about Melissa and, or the opinion about Melissa and Shauna's relationship is so interesting because I keep going back to how Melissa, like, pursued Shauna. Yeah, she did. Aggressively.

[01:38:10] And was it because she wanted the protection of, you know, the most dangerous person in camp to be her person? Is it because she's attracted to the darkness? The events of this episode make me think that it's more of the, like, attraction to the darkness thing. As far as the Wendigo, I resisted those kind of ideas and I still do, but not as much anymore. I don't know why.

[01:38:35] Maybe just because the show's gotten crazier and crazier, if that's possible. So I'm like, yeah, I guess it could be fun if it did turn out to be something like that. I thought Wendigos were sort of like werewolves, but maybe I need to do some more research that isn't just watching Charmed and Supernatural. So we have a voicemail from Alexander. Hi there, it's Alex calling from Melbourne, Australia.

[01:39:06] I've got a new theory for you guys. I had one the other week about how Misty smiled during the pilot episode and I wondered if potentially she'd gotten rid of an enemy or something like that. Well, today's new theory, which I've come up with in the last couple of days, essentially this show keeps coming back to the idea of forensics and DNA and criminal investigation and solving mysteries through a method of science. And we've seen that a lot with Walter and Misty and Misty's contacts.

[01:39:33] And it got me thinking, why does the show keep coming back to forensics? Like it seems very deliberate to me and like it's going to play into the story further in the future. And then I went after the last episode, you know where there are a lot of hair samples and evidence is on the Antla Queen mask. Like it's covered in DNA and forensic evidence.

[01:39:56] So my new theory is that Walter specifically either has or will get possession of the Antla Queen mask. And he's going to be checking the DNA samples of like, he stole Shauna's hair the other week. He's probably got other DNA samples of other yellow jackets and he's going to take them all, compare them with the mask and then use that to try and unpack and discover what actually happened in the wilderness. So yeah, I'm coming back to that.

[01:40:23] Walter is the bad guy and he's, yeah, he's doing something suspicious. And yeah, that's my running theory. Walter is going to get or already has the Antla Queen mask and he's using that for forensics and comparing it with the Cardiola jackets. So let me think, let me know what you think of that theory. I'd love to hear your thoughts. Thanks. I had not even considered that. And I have to say that I love the theories that everyone has been sending in because a

[01:40:50] lot of times I'm not, they're not even on my radar or something that I would be thinking about. So I appreciate that. It didn't even occur to me to think, to wonder where the Antler Queen like shroud ended up. And now I really want to know. And I got to say, I think I liked the theory even more just because your voice message was so pleasing to listen to. Yeah. Has he called in before?

[01:41:18] Gotta love that, that accent from down under. Yeah. That's great. Okay. Michael Hawkins says, through all this late season madness, one of the bright spots I hold on to is the friendship I see blossoming between Shauna and Misty, which only seems more likely the more openly hostile they become to each other. One thing I've always admired about Misty is how devoted she is to the surviving Yellowjackets, despite wherever she is on the sociopathy, psychopathy scale, psychopathy scale.

[01:41:48] And despite the lack of reciprocation, it feels like from Misty's point of view, everyone on earth can go pretty much fuck themselves except for approximately five women and maybe Travis, who she literally has killed for and would most likely die for without hesitation. In return, she receives begrudging tolerance at best. The BFF dynamic Misty was seeking from Nat in the first two seasons was never going to work because Nat disapproves of murder. As we know, Shauna has no such qualms.

[01:42:16] As Shauna becomes increasingly unhinged this season, maybe she'll have a moment of self-awareness and realize Misty was her true homicidal bestie all along, setting them up to drive off that cliff into the sunset. Aw. P.S. Another bright spot is Melissa's devotion to the backwards baseball cap, despite being a 40-something wife and mother. Respect. Nice. Excellent feedback, Michael. Thank you. I think Misty's had it with these women.

[01:42:46] I think she's over that phase. Yeah, but I think she'll be back. I don't think she's going to stop this devotion very quickly. I don't think that she can stop it. For all we know, she's on her way to see them now. Right. Or she's on her way to find out something about Lottie. Yeah, yeah. She's still in it. Yeah. She did go to Walter and say, you know what? Maybe Shauna didn't do it, even though she was just accusing her earlier. Yeah.

[01:43:16] See, when she said that, I think she was pumping Walter. She wanted to know what he knew. I don't think she was being serious with him at all. Okay. Yeah. And I thought I was surprised that she doesn't suspect him more, but you really don't know what she suspects because she's not necessarily going to say it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. I wouldn't put pretty much anything past Walter, but for some reason, I just don't think he killed Lottie. I don't think that's him. Too easy. Yeah.

[01:43:46] Maybe. He would, but I don't think he did. Yeah. I think he's sus, but I think others are as well. Yeah. So we also have a voicemail from Steve Brown. Steve Brown. Hello, Yellow Jackets WTF. This is Steve, and this is season three, episode eight, A Normal Boring Life. Oh, look at that. We're starting with this must be a flashback to after they got back from the wilderness, right? That's young Shauna. Or is it? Because there's Jackie.

[01:44:16] Of course, the way she's talking, this must be a hallucination of Jackie. Oh, okay. Or just a dream, Shauna, because now we're back to where she was staking out the whatever this person is. This is Alex from the subtitles, and that looks like maybe Melissa, Hillary Swank with that baseball cap on backwards. Yes, again, the subtitles are saying Melissa, so. And she knew Shauna was in there. Oh, and so back at the hospital, it seems his van's cancer has progressed. Meanwhile, back in the wilderness, Misty finds her broken glasses.

[01:44:45] Young Van just asked did Mulder and Scully get together. I love the X-Files reference. I had to pause it because I just wanted one of them to look at Hannah and go, I'm the captain now. Ew. What did the Jules think when they saw Callie with Jeff? Ew. Okay, meanwhile, back at the knife sisters conversation, we find out that Melissa faked her death and became Kelly. And she was the one who brought the tape back from the wilderness and sent to Shauna.

[01:45:14] Travis, ever the joiner, just because all the girls are back and they now have Cody, you're going to be part of them. I was really surprised that Natalie turned her back on Lottie there in that scene where she said they're going home because Lottie might have done something rash. She's extremely intuitive. Barba's always are. I have a sister named Barbara. Okay, so there was a note with the tape. Obviously, Callie didn't give that to her mom. And Melissa's not the one doing all this. Ty, I don't know if that counts or not. I guess we're going to find out.

[01:45:43] But she probably just killed that guy. Meanwhile, back in the wilderness, Cody and Hannah are burying Edwin. And the girls are having hallucinations. Wow. I'm not sure what that says about young Shauna that she just said she'd be willing to kill that guy because he shot Melissa. Okay, Melissa just kind of said the title of the episode, but not really the exact word. So it's not really a mic drop. And Jeff may be broken. Oh, the animals are all dead and the crops. What? Oh, okay. Just another hallucination. Oh, now we have dark tie again.

[01:46:13] The adult timeline. And this thing is switching back and forth real quick. Okay. I don't know what that rebellion was or how Shauna is going to stop everyone from going, but we'll see. Oh, Melissa just calling Shauna out completely here. This is very Kill Bill Volume 1. You know, the two women with the knives looking at each other, having a conversation. I'm just wondering if Hillary's going to pull a gun out of somewhere. Oh, now we have a fight. Oh, did Shauna just bite a chunk out of her arm? Oh, that's a crazy ending. And what? There's only like two episodes left? Is it 10 episodes this season?

[01:46:43] Wow. I think, don't put a clip. Don't put a clip at the beginning. Just put Steve's in. Oh, did Shauna just bite a chunk out of her arm? Because that was perfect. Or you could just go with, she made me eat my fucking arm. So fun. Thank you, Steve. All right. Tobias Fenton. I love all these long theory feedbacks.

[01:47:12] I did have to shorten a couple of them, but I absolutely love them all. Tobias writes, I'm a longtime listener, but I've never written because I'm not nearly as good as you with future theories or past details. So I've never had any insight to add. Your show is that great. Thanks for doing it. With that said, I feel pretty good about these predictions. One, I think there will be a battle at the beginning of the next episode. Although Nat and Travis have the long range weapons, I doubt they can shoot their fellow yellow jackets.

[01:47:40] So if Shauna leads a bum rush with her knife and Thaisa follows with her hatchet she is holding and Lottie grabs a weapon and starts cracking skulls, I can see them killing a quick teammate or two and ending the battle right there. Two, especially if Akilah switches sides, which makes some sense. Three, out of all the people who are trying to leave, I think the most likely to give violent resistance is Melissa.

[01:48:06] Four, I agree with the common speculation that Hannah is probably Pit Girl. My prediction is that Melissa, having become so close with Hannah, will either object to killing her or refuse to eat her or both. And five is check out the last two episode titles of the season, How the Story Ends and Full Circle. People are saying it might be the end of the Yellow Jackets. They intended to do five seasons, but no season four has been announced.

[01:48:33] The scientists were a plot point emphasized by the showrunners while pitching the show. One of them said in an interview they were excited to get to that episode. So I could see the show wrapping up now that plot twist has been accomplished. However, it would also make sense for episode nine to be the end of the scientists story and for episode 10 to be full circle with them starving in the middle of winter too. What do you think?

[01:48:57] So we have the luxury of having watched the last episode. So we know a little bit of things. We know that episode nine was about Van. He brings up an interesting point that full circle could be about the winter. About the winter coming again. That actually makes a lot of sense. It could be Canwell Council. Yeah.

[01:49:22] I mean, Steve Brown and Tobias were talking about what would happen with this conflict of Shauna telling everyone they had to stay. And it turned out that they were just like, all right. She's scary. Yeah. So now we have a voicemail from Jenny Ryan. Hi, it's Jenny from Saskatoon calling to talk yellow jackets.

[01:49:45] I think what's happening right now is really interesting in terms of the way girls work as teams when they're teenagers. I remember being in high school in the 90s and my friends and I were pretty feminist-y. Like we were very, you know, we didn't wear makeup and we wore our dad's old jeans. We were very like feminism grungy as opposed to like feminism Spice Girl.

[01:50:15] So we were the Bikini Kill version. And I remember there was one time we were 16 years old and we were sitting around at lunchtime at a park. And my friend asked us, well, she said she had something important to talk to us about. And she was really worried that it was going to be a problem with the friend group. And she was really worried we were going to think less of her because she wanted to start shaving her legs.

[01:50:42] Because we had all decided none of us were going to ever shave again because we were, you know, fuck the patriarchy. And so my friend was like, my legs are so hairy. The hair gets caught in my socks, my wool, like hiking socks that she wore with her hiking boots and her hiking pants. She was really determined. And she didn't want to have hair in her socks and she was really concerned that it would be a huge deal for us.

[01:51:07] And so we talked about it as a collective and decided that it was appropriate and okay for her to shave her legs if it was for comfort only. So watching the girls in the forest and to have Shauna say none of you are leaving. I mean, it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous that this would happen, but it also makes total sense. I could imagine it happening to a group of adults maybe, but also some adults would just leave.

[01:51:32] But I feel like with teen girls, there's such a particular kind of group thinking and really like – anyway, they're in this extreme version of what my friends and I were like, I guess. Where you move and think as one to make sure the group is okay. Anyway, I really related to that and now I'm really sad that they're going to end up in the woods because of Shauna's – I don't know what she's doing. Anyway, it's compelling though. I really like it.

[01:52:00] Also, I have to say although I still really want Ali to be the perpetrator, I sort of think my theory might not come true, which is disappointing. I really wanted Ali to be the bad guy, but I don't think she is. Okay, goodbye. But maybe she is. I mean if she is, that would be great. I think anything is possible. I love that story. It's so funny. Thank you, Jenny. I love your thoughts. And we have feedback from Liz Moore.

[01:52:27] It says, I've been walking like a paranoid person in the dark because of the wilderness and the man with no eyes. That entire plot line needs to be explained before I finish this show. We finally got a better view of him and is that the same figure Ty saw as her grandmother was dying? Or was it at her funeral? For me, the man with no eyes represents an Achilles heel or something holding Tyisa back from her full self. Does it have anything to do with her dissociative identity disorder?

[01:52:56] It could be, but probably not. Based on the way the show has been moving along, he is a figment for Ty or symbolism for the audience, but not a ghost. Which I hate because I just need answers. I am obsessing over Ty still. I want to think she did kill Lottie, but that makes me scared of her even more. Did she morph out of dark Ty to wake up and kill Lottie? How long has she been dark Ty?

[01:53:22] I am so excited to see her and Van evolve, digress, and get some answers. Fucked up moment of the week. Shauna telling everyone they are not leaving. Favorite moment and the most romantic thing I have heard this year? Jeff to the Joles. Haven't you ever fallen in love with a woman who is completely unhinged? Or is everyone you have fallen in love with completely boring? Jeff continues to kill it. His dialogue is awesome.

[01:53:50] Woohoo to all the current and recovering codependents out there. This episode may be questioned who else will resurface in current time on the show. Thank you for your commentary. You're the best. Thanks, Liz. Thanks. And a final piece of feedback. We have a voicemail from Becky Woodland. Hey, Podcastica crew. This is Becky from Vancouver Island. Now, I don't come up with theories very often. I leave that to the other viewers.

[01:54:20] My brain works hard enough. Watching Yellow Jackets. But, you know, this popped into my head on my second rewatch of episode 8 of season 3. Good old adult Melissa and her, quote unquote, unlicensed therapist slash advisor says that she needs to let it go. Get rid of the darkness. Well, what if this Barbara is Walter? Barbara?

[01:54:50] Walters? Anybody? Anybody? Oh my god, now I want that to be true. I just, we don't have enough information, obviously, but they could be chatting online. As you do in this day and age. And Walter's sneaky. He's a suspicious fella, as we all know. Going behind everybody's backs and being a little sneak. Anyway, just worth the thought. Worth the theory to throw it out there.

[01:55:20] Thanks for listening. Thank you, Becky. That made me... Appreciate that. You know, I mean, a very potentially obvious answer to one of these mysteries is just that Melissa's, she is going around trying to kill all the Yellow Jackets, just like Shauna thinks. Because, as Becky just mentioned, her therapist told her to get rid of the darkness.

[01:55:48] And maybe she did kill Lottie, and we just saw her kill Van. And maybe she was, she did cut Shauna's brakes. The thing is, the mechanic said it wasn't something that was cut. Okay, yeah, okay. But still. She still could have done the phone and the tape. Obviously, she did the tape. And Lottie. And it makes no sense why she would send that tape. Yeah, and I don't think there was a note in there either. I think she's a liar. And we're forgetting.

[01:56:17] I mean, did she kill Travis? Yep. I mean, we forget about him, because that's way back in season one, and that seems like forever ago. But he's part of this too. Another weird thing the show did, they had Travis die without us getting to meet him. Adult Travis. Well, we saw him a little bit in flashbacks. Yeah, a little tiny bit. Thank you, everyone, for sending in feedback. We love it.

[01:56:44] I know there's only one episode left, but we still want to hear from you. And we're going to have a separate feedback episode at the very end of the series. And it'll probably come out like less than a week after the last episode. All right. That's our show. Thanks for listening, everyone.

[01:57:13] Next up, Yellow Jacket Season 3, Episode 10, Full Circle. If you want to write in or send us a voice message about it, you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com. While you're there, be sure to check out our other shows. There's a new one coming up pretty soon here next week, right? Oh, yeah. Handmaid's Tale. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be a lot of fun. No, I don't know.

[01:57:42] No, we're excited to watch the final season of that show. Yeah. And Wendy and I just put out an episode catching everybody up on what's happened in that series so far. So if you go to podcastica.com and look for the Handmaid's Tale podcast, you can find it. That's funny. My friend Gail listens and she messaged me and she said that opening snippet that we used

[01:58:08] with June talking, she said, just sent chills down her spine and she like had to turn it off. She's like, I'm not ready. That's awesome. Yeah, it did me too. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to be a little bit more open about since that show is so, you know, relatable right now, the way things are in the world, we might be a little bit more open about how we feel about that. So if you don't, if that doesn't sound good to you, then maybe you shouldn't listen. Does then please do.

[01:58:36] I was at a figure skating competition last week and someone skated to music from the Handmaid's Tale. The whole performance started with June describing the room and I kind of got chills listening to it because I knew exactly where it was from and knowing that we're going to be talking about it right like this weekend, getting ready. It just hit a little bit different. It was good though.

[01:59:06] Dipping in wasn't as painful as I thought it was going to be. So I'm ready. Yeah, me too. All right. That's our show. Thanks for listening. Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz.