53: Season 3 News and Listener Feedback

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[00:00:30] Hmm? Ah! Hmm. Podcastica. Hey everybody, welcome to our podcast. I'm Wendy. And I'm Daphne. And I'm Jason. And this is Yellowjackets WTF, Episode 53.

[00:00:58] This week we'll be reading the news and feedback for Season 3, Episode 10, Full Circle. There was a lot. Yes. Yeah. People have opinions. Super cool. Yeah. Not surprised. Overall season thoughts? I'll go first. I feel like lately I've watched some shows that are not in their first season. They might be in their second or third season and I haven't been as happy with them.

[00:01:28] And this show, I really loved this season. In fact, I think it might be my favorite season of all time. It is overshadowed a little bit by the fact that we don't have a Season 4 announcement. Yeah. Yeah. But I loved Season 3. I mean, it gave us everything we could have asked for. Yeah. I, we don't have a Season 4 announcement, unfortunately.

[00:01:52] And I think, you know, they, they, they definitely want more seasons. And if they're not getting it, I think the show's still a hit. I think it's doing better than ever. So it must be some kind of a contractor business negotiation that's happening behind the scenes. And we're just not hearing it yet. Cause on the bright side, we also haven't heard anything about a cancellation. Right.

[00:02:14] But anyway, if it does get canceled, which totally sucks, but at least we got to where we did get, you know, it does feel like somewhat complete. It was an episode called Full Circle. So, I mean, I don't want that. I want it to go on, but at least they got to where they got, you know? Yeah, I agree. I hope that we do get a Season 4. I'm not sure we need five seasons.

[00:02:41] I think they could wrap it up with the Season 4. I agree. I'll take five seasons. Yeah. I'll take 10 seasons. I know they want five. Yeah. Well, I'll take what we can get and hopefully we will get another season. I have really enjoyed this season as a whole. I like the way that it really built up over the last like five or six episodes.

[00:03:07] It was like this incline and it built and built and built so that it just became so intense on so many fronts. And that's compelling TV to me. So I'm really happy. I know there's been some complaints about the writing being a little uneven or. I'm just not being happy with certain things or the way things played out. Overall, I am good. I thought it was a great season and.

[00:03:37] Hopefully, fingers crossed, we'll get a season for. Yeah, I'm the same. I loved it. I think for me, it had a similar weakness as season two, which is. I just thought I always feel like the the 90s storyline is more interesting to me. I do like the adult storyline, but sometimes feels like they're spinning their wheels a little bit or something like that. Trying to figure out what story to tell just a little bit. It's still great.

[00:04:07] It's still interesting, but the whenever they go back, I'm just like totally, you know, glued to the screen. But yeah, overall, I liked it too. It's right up there. I might rank them season one first, then this season and then season two last. Yeah, they definitely up the creep factor in this season. There was a lot of.

[00:04:32] There definitely was more of a horror vibe at times and which I love. And so I bought into it right away. And the characters, I thought that it was cool that we got to see adult Melissa. I thought, yeah, no, we lost a few characters too. And yeah, that is kind of. I mean, we did see Melissa last season, like last season.

[00:05:02] I also really loved getting to see the growth that we saw in the character of Van. Not only in the team timeline, the team timeline, but the adult timeline. And unfortunately, we won't get to see any further, you know, character development in her adult storyline because we lost her. But Liv Hewson has knocked it out of the park.

[00:05:27] I think this season, especially with all the different conflicting things that their character has gone through. So, yeah. Yeah, Liv Hewson. Liv Hewson is the one that was supposed to her character. Their character was supposed to die. But they did such a good job that. Then got to stick around. So that says a lot. Yeah. Yeah. It really does.

[00:05:59] All right. Do you want to give us any news, Jason? Oh, yeah, a ton. And it's I mean, I, I usually, you know, when I'm getting news for something, try to really boil it down to the most. I think there's a lot of interesting things that I just think there's a lot of interesting things. We'll see if you guys agree. There's an article from the L.A. Times called Yellow Jackets creators on season three finale and why they're banking on another season.

[00:06:26] And Bart Nickerson said, we are kind of banking on another season. And so sorry if we do get canceled. If we pulled a total my so-called life where we're just ending. But there are worse things than to go down in history as another my so-called life. He's they said, what was it always going to be Natalie making that triumphant call? And am I naive to think this is the triumphant call? Ashley Lyle says, I don't think you're naive.

[00:06:54] They very much are making contact officially with the outside world. In this case, purposefully with their rescue. We always knew that it would be Natalie who was the tip of the spear and the person who got them back home. And Nickerson says, just to clarify, while you are not naive to think that I don't know how straight a line from that moment to rescue will be something that we'll get to answer in season four. So they always knew Phil feels like they a lot of things we're seeing had been planned for a long time.

[00:07:25] They asked this show so far has existed in two timelines, the past in the wilderness and the present as the past haunts them. I assume a third timeline at some point would touch on readjusting to life after the rescue. What interests you about that transition period? And are those details you've known since the beginning to guide you? I thought you might be interested in this Wendy, since you've talked a lot about wanting to explore that timeline. So Ashley Lyle says, it's something that we've talked about in the writers room.

[00:07:52] And from the very beginning, Bart and I knew this was a piece of the story one we wanted to eventually explore. We always go back to the movie cast away and how I found it a little bit frustrating. And I love that movie. He gets rescued and they kind of time jump. They just go right past the period of readjustment. Whereas to our minds, that's an incredibly fascinating story to tell. These girls have changed remarkably for better, for worse in their time out there, especially because of their age. They're so malleable to begin with and they become very different people.

[00:08:22] And to see those people readjust to a world that is almost, I wouldn't say insignificant to them. It's obviously very significant, foreign to them now in a way that we think would be really right for storytelling and to dig deeper into their characters. And Nickerson said, just trying to think of how to say this without giving any kind of spoilers. But there's also something very interesting about getting the opportunity to do the end of a story that is actually the beginning. You're always in the middle of your story to a certain extent and getting to do what feels like the end of something.

[00:08:52] But the audience is so in on the joke that, oh my God, this is actually just the beginning of this whole other story that we've now seen is a fun narrative challenge. So to me, that's like they're saying, no, we're not rushing this because we thought we might get canceled. We've always planned on having them get rescued at the end of season three or beginning of four and then do two more. That's a whole different story, you know? And I want to see that story. Like, I agree with them completely. I didn't like that time jump in Castaway. I love Castaway.

[00:09:22] And like, I want to see what happens the day they get rescued, the day after they get rescued. Like, that's interesting how they interact with their other young people and stuff, you know? Yeah. And there's been all of these allusions to things happening that were a little sinister when they get back. So I want to know what were those things like? What did they do?

[00:09:49] Because I'm already anticipating Shauna having a hard time coming back from the wilderness where she was the queen, especially with what we saw at the end of this episode. Yeah. With her little, you know, monologue about wanting to be the queen again. So. Yep. Yeah. How does she get to where she starts like deciding to be to tamp everything down and pretend to just be this normal housewife? Yeah. Yep.

[00:10:19] And what made her decide that she had to stay there and not go to Brown like she was accepted to? Like, I don't understand. And could they, if they wanted, this is kind of a weird question, but what if like Lottie and Shauna and, you know, a few of the other girls are like, oh, we're just going to go back out into the wilderness. I mean, yeah.

[00:10:48] I mean, I don't know why they couldn't know. It wouldn't have been as much fun because the power comes from the control and she had a lot of control over everyone. Yeah. Yeah. And if all of them aren't out there for her to control, then she's going to be, you know, the queen of a couple of people is not the same. Yeah. That's such a good point.

[00:11:12] That's one reason why she's like, I'm not letting any of you go, not just because they would might ruin it for her, but also she wanted specifically to have power over them. Just like you're saying. Yeah. I mean, you saw how ridiculous that she got with Mari when she made her get picked in the cards to be food, like to be the sacrifice. Yeah.

[00:11:37] Shauna was get, I mean, to me, she was getting, she was very happy about it. Oh, tough break. And I still believe that Natalie was one. She also wanted to see go. Hmm. So, and I could be wrong. It's my opinion. I think Natalie is someone that she looked at as a threat. And yeah, I do too.

[00:12:01] In that case, I think she looks at people not being loyal and targets them. So. So they ask who, who is antler queen Sophie and who is pit girl Mari have been questioned since the pilot. Is it safe to say the finale of season three answers that Ashley Lyle says that's safe to say yes. Bart Nickerson says, well, it answers half of it. Ash, do you agree?

[00:12:30] Well, Ashley says it's safe to say we've definitely definitively answered who pit girl is. And Nickerson says, oh, sorry. You mean antler queen in the pilot who was sitting there. Of course, I immediately went to the metaphoric. That's my mistake. So that answer to me says he's answering who's sitting there, but whoever Lottie's seeing in her dreams or whatever it is. There's something there that's not quite answered yet. You know, something bigger. Yeah. Something bigger. Which may just be Shauna in garb. Yeah.

[00:13:00] Yeah. It may just be the answer may just be whether it's real or not or. Yeah. Whatever. Yeah. They said it's been interesting to see how fans react to Shauna. Now Taisa at one point says that the worst of what they've gone through then and now is fueled by her. And Ashley Lyle says, I think people forget that when we meet Shauna in the past and present, she's chasing transgressiveness. In the past, she's cheating with her best friend's boyfriend. In the present, she's masturbating in her daughter's room and killing rabbits in the garden.

[00:13:30] And Melanie Linsky's so game. When we got to episodes eight and nine, she was like, let's go. We've always been huge fans of breaking bad. It's almost easy to forget that when breaking bad started, Brian Cranston had been the dad and Malcolm in the middle. He was so funny and charming and sweet and nice and smart and nice and sort of hapless seeming to take that actor and turn him into the one who knocks is just such an exciting journey.

[00:13:54] So it's been very satisfying to take Melanie through Shauna to the point where we're like, oh no, wait a second. You know, what's funny about that? There have been several people, a couple in the Z heads in particular, who have said that they now see Shauna as Walter White. Yeah. And so I that's interesting that that, you know, comparison is out there.

[00:14:23] I think the difference is, at least in the adult timeline, is that we see Walter become it gradually. But Shauna was always it. We just didn't know it. Yeah. Yeah. Although I think you're right. But when I talk with breaking bad about Jenny, who's my wife, she's like, I always thought he was a dick from the first episode.

[00:14:48] But being a dick and being the one who blown Walter White that we get at the end is two different things. Yeah. I love this next one. When when Travis covered up that pit and tried to get Lottie to walk over it and fall in with those branches over it, there was a question of whether she actually walked out onto it because it didn't show her feet. You know, did we talk about that much on the podcast? I think we probably did. Yeah.

[00:15:18] We saw the surprise look on Travis's face, but we might have thought maybe she's he just is thinking and he's he's delusional or I don't know. But people were definitely debating online whether she actually walked out onto it. So in an article in The Hollywood Reporter, the director of the episode, Ben Seminoff, says, quote, there's a theme of faith in this episode. Lottie walks on water, so to speak. She walks out onto this bear trap that Travis has formed and doesn't fall into it.

[00:15:47] So he pretty clearly said she walked out onto it. But just to sort of drive it home, there's an interview with Courtney Eaton on the Collider Ladies Night show. And I'm just going to play a quick excerpt of that. So in the actual version that we see in the finished episode, this is another thing that I've seen people debate online.

[00:16:13] When she walks towards the pit, is she stepping on the edge or is she literally walking across it like a god? She walked across it. I walked to the middle of it. And whether that is because she the wilderness is looking after her or because he set it up wrong after he threw the rock like don't know. Wrong. That's the thing with this show. It could be one or the other and you never know.

[00:16:40] So she says he walked out on it or she walked out on it right to the middle. Hmm. I do think it's possible with physics that it could have held her weight. But when you throw a log, you're putting, you know, somebody can do the math for us out there. Yeah. I mean, there was someone in the chat. I forget who it was. Forgive me. But she said, yeah, physics.

[00:17:05] And I'm sort of like, yeah, but you'd have to you'd think you'd have to try. Like my son, Nico, they in one of his classes, they had to set up some kind of a structure with popsicle sticks. But you had to do it intentionally to try to make it strong, you know, and Travis was specifically trying not to do that. So but I think, you know, with suspension of disbelief, the idea is that it could be either just like Courtney just said. Yeah.

[00:17:35] Do you I ever since we recorded the episode for number 10 of this season, the finale, do you think Travis even remembered that he had done that? Or did they for I mean, did anyone else know that that pit was full of spikes? Because I don't I feel like it was just forgotten about. And Mari's death ended up being because.

[00:18:03] She fell into something that had nothing to do with her, it was created for another reason. Yeah. And going back to something Lottie said to her, like it can be different. It you know, don't you notice you've been here? Whereas if Mari had just run in a different direction, she might have made it out. Instead, she ran to a place she'd already been and been in the pit already once before. And then ended up there again, this time dead.

[00:18:34] Yeah. You know what? I don't think we mentioned it on the podcast, but since the last time we recorded or if we did it, I didn't catch it. But since the last time we recorded, I realized, OK, the first episode was called it girl and Mari was it right. She's the one who got tagged in the game that they were playing. Yeah. And she was also a pit girl. So they were kind of slyly telling us right from the start. Yeah.

[00:19:00] But I do think that if Mari hadn't fallen in the pit, they were going to kill her anyway. I mean, unless. Oh, yeah. You know, they were obviously attempting to, you know, deviate Shauna. But I think she was a good chance that she was going to end up dead anyway, even with the pit not being there. Because she took all of her clothes off except for the night dress and was running through the woods. So that, yeah, I think they were going to kill her. Yeah.

[00:19:30] I still question like the commitment of some of the people that were in the hunt. Yeah, I think that's fair. A lot. I think I think a lot of them did not want to do this. I don't think they wanted to be part of it. But there's some feedback about it that kind of blows my mind suggesting we kind of missed a few things, too. So I'm looking forward to excellent.

[00:19:57] I love listener feedback because they do capture everything. We can't possibly get it all. So I'm happy when they send it in. But that thing I was just saying about it girl slightly revealing, if you're paying attention, that Mario was pit girl. It also tells me that the writers pull from fan stuff because I think we named her pit girl. Right. And then they use that in the show with the girl. I like that.

[00:20:27] And speaking of that. Well, go ahead. Thinking of antler queen. Like fans came up with all of this. Yeah. Like language and vocabulary for this show, like pit girl and antler queen. And you knew exactly what you meant when you said exactly. Yeah. Exactly. When Shauna says I was a fucking queen, I'm sure they were inspired by us calling her antler queen. Yeah. I mean, she, she was like, it was a big deal.

[00:20:55] That very first episode introduced us to pit girl and antler queen. So we've been holding on to that for the last, you know, three seasons of it. Yeah. Live on this own worldwide, May 2nd and 3rd Garcia versus Romero and Canelo versus skull Friday from 6 PM. Eastern Garcia returns in our history making times square. Takeover 24 hours later, Saturday from 7 PM. Eastern King Canelo faces undefeated skull for the undisputed crowd.

[00:21:24] May 2nd and 3rd, a knockout weekend of boxing. Pick one or go all in for only $90 exclusively on the zone by now at the zone.com slash boxing. And speaking of pit girl, Hollywood reporter talked with Alexa Barajas who played Mari. They said, take me back. When did you find out Mari was pit girl? She says, I remember watching the pilot and thinking, huh, I have a suspicion. That's going to be me.

[00:21:50] I was sitting there guessing just like all the fans as to who it was going to be, but I always had a hunch. It was going to be me. They were like, what gave you the hunch? So early on that it was you. She said, just watching the pilot and the way she looked and then how fun it was to hate Mari. I was like, oh yeah, I think this is a setup. They said, did you share your suspicions with the co-stars? She said, I think so. A lot of us thought it was me. Some people thought it was Sarah, Sarah, Desjardins, Desjardins, Callie, somehow time jumping.

[00:22:19] But I think most of the fingers are pointed in my direction. I mean, brown hair, there could only be so many of us. They said in episode three of the season, Mari gave a speech to coach Ben about how two realities can coexist. I feel like that's the thesis of the show, which I love that as you were filming, how did knowing what happens in the end impact how you played Mari? She says, what's really cool is that now that her story does come to an end and it's nice that we got to know her a bit better.

[00:22:46] I think that makes losing her that much more impactful before Mari had this hard shell and only knew how to push back now. And she's been put in such a vulnerable position this season. She was able to, for example, with coach Ben slowly shed those outside layers and show a bit more of her actual self, even though it didn't last for too long. That's something that I definitely hold on to. Those scenes were some of my favorite ones to film to get real with Mari was fun, but I also do love her zingers.

[00:23:14] There was more to the interview, but the last question was any final words as pit girl. And she said, oh, my God, fuck off. Which I love. Oh, man. That's great when somebody rises to the occasion like that. Yeah. I mean, we speculated that Mari was pit girl. She was definitely one of the characters on the list. Yep.

[00:23:40] And as we got into season three and down the road, I was thinking that was what made the most sense. Hannah was certainly questionable because she came in with her long, dark, flowing locks and we're like, mm. Mm hmm. To me, it was hard to connect that scene from the pilot with what we were seeing for some reason. I just felt like a whole other world until we finally saw that final episode.

[00:24:11] Yeah. The way they interwove things so that we got really the two perspectives, which was in an article that I read was that was two, two different ways of remembering something. And the adults remember it one way and the teens remember it a different way. So. Yeah, because there were flashes. Right. And you saw them in there more the bear, the animal fur costumes were different. Yes.

[00:24:38] And you're saying the article is saying that represents how they remembered it as adults. Yeah. Kind of. Yeah. Yeah. And I liked that because it, I mean, you do remember things as an adult different than you experienced it as a kid. And in looking at the way things transpired and now we have all that, you know, more information that we've been given this season, it makes sense that things would be just a little bit different.

[00:25:07] And I know there were some complaints about it from some fans, but I think overall the way they wove it all together was great. So I'm good. Let's hope for season four. Yes. So deadline talked with Bart Nickerson and Ashley Lyle, the two of the showrunners. They said, I'm so curious if they're going to end up getting back to civilization, just with Nat getting the signal at the end.

[00:25:34] Part of me is excited to see more of like the 90s style and just get back to the nineties pop culture and all that. Ashley Lyle said, I think that's something that will be very fun for us. We realized very early on making the show, as we were even shooting the pilot, we were like, oh, this is our one chance for now, for a very long time to actually dig into the nineties. And we like to have little pops here and there, even in episode two of season one, when they're using the sea breeze toner as an antiseptic.

[00:26:03] But once they're there, the nineties is more in them and how they're reacting to the world and their references and all that. But I think it'll be very fun in the future to actually be in the nineties and get to play around. That's our time, man. We're nineties kids. I like that. No, I'm an eighties kid. I'm an eighties kid. I like the nineties too. That was such a great decade. They said, yeah, I love that line. When Hannah gets there and Vans asking do Scully and Mulder hook up.

[00:26:33] And says, just to clarify, not to say that we're going to get there very soon, but we've always said that we do think there is a portion of the story that wants to be told upon their return. We just don't know when we're going to get there. They said, yeah. And Liv Houston was saying that they're very excited to explore the media reaction to these young women. The media is still such a volatile place, but in the nineties it was awful. Ashley Lyle says, oh my God, hard copy. We've always had this sort of dream version of the quick hard copy montage of like the return of the yellow jackets.

[00:27:00] And obviously the media would be very interested in covering their story. And at the same time, obviously our girls are very interested in the media and not covering that story. Right. Right. Yeah. And how do they get through all that? Yeah. So I'd say it involves a lot of getting your story straight. Right. And how do you do that before they are rescued? Mm hmm.

[00:27:27] I probably, I think I have talked about it on this podcast before, but I was a writing major in college and I wrote a story. It was the alternative, the truth of what happened on Gilligan's Island. And Gilligan was actually this like rampaging, like tribal shirtless guy. And he went feral, you know, and they all made up stories of him bungling and being an idiot just to like, try to make it seem like they were actually civilized. And anyway. Oh my gosh.

[00:27:57] I did not know that Jason. So I am like, so I'm very surprised that that's cool. That is, I, I, yeah, I'm interested in, uh, well, because Gilligan was a lot of people who are doing this. He's always portrayed as being this bumbling. Yeah. But I just wanted to get back at him. Yeah. That's why I'll send you that story. It's pretty sure. I got it. I got to see it. I feel like it's gonna, it's going to be good.

[00:28:28] Awesome. Uh, variety talked with Melanie Linsky, who of course played Shauna. They said, what was your reaction to reading that final scene where Shauna comes home to an empty house and snaps? She says, it almost felt like a relief to me because she's been repressing to have been playing for almost three full seasons. Somebody who's trying to repress the most powerful part of themselves.

[00:28:50] It felt exciting and like a relief to see her own up to the fact that this is not necessarily where she's the happiest, but definitely feels most like herself and feels the most powerful. And also made me very curious for what's going to come next. If we get another season, they said, has Shauna just been trying and failing to hold it together all these years? He says, I think she's really developed a persona that's keeping her safe and keeping people around her safe.

[00:29:14] She's worked very hard on not being noticed, just being able to go about her life as somebody who looks very ordinary, who isn't starting any problems. She's been very aware. She's been very aware of a restlessness within herself. And the moments we've seen where she gets to do something dangerous or crazy, she really does come alive. In season one, all of the illicit stuff with Adam was where she felt most herself. She was kind of like a teenager again. She's the most capable when she's doing something dangerous. She's the most herself.

[00:29:47] They said, Shauna writes on a notepad in the wilderness. She wasn't a wife or a mother, but a warrior and a fucking queen. Does Shauna resent being a wife and a mother? She said, it's difficult for her. In my mind, she loves Jeff and she loves Callie. I don't ever doubt that. I don't ever doubt that she loves them to the best of her ability, but there is something within herself that doesn't trust that she's lovable. She's not allowing herself to be really loved and she does not trust herself to love anybody.

[00:30:14] There's a distance she's keeping between herself and Jeff and Callie. It's just never going to be a satisfying relationship. And she does not like household duties. He's not a person who does. I mean, she's not a person who can make herself happy, busying herself around the house. I really do love the beginning of that scene where she realizes she's alone in the house and she looks around and she sees they've left a fucking mess for her to clean up. Part of her is like, you know what, guys? Thanks. You abandoned me and now I have to clean up whatever you decided to make for lunch. It's very rude.

[00:30:43] She's still a little resentful about it, even as she's sort of reclaiming her power. It's not that she would not have made the choice. I think she wants to be a mother to Callie. I think she really does love Jeff. She just doesn't know how to do it. They said, is there room in the antler queen Shauna's life for Callie and Jeff? She says, I don't know. I hope so because I want to continue to have scenes with those actors. I think Jeff trying to have a conversation with, with completely unleashed Shauna would be really interesting.

[00:31:12] I think he's a bit excited by that aspect of her personality, but also very scared of it. Um, they said Shauna finally finds and reads Melissa's letter. If she'd read it from the beginning, do you think it would have made a difference in how she reacted to everything? She says, absolutely. She cries reading the letter. Part of her crying is kind of like, she can't believe that she did it again. It's Adam all over again.

[00:31:39] She jumped to a conclusion, assume the worst, and she absolutely lost it. She attacked somebody. He died. Melissa didn't die, but Shauna's like, why am I like this? There was this letter the whole time that, that explained. She would have had questions about the letter and she would have been like, don't reach out after all this if you don't want to start something. But I don't think she would have rushed over there with her brand new, very sharp knife. And, uh, uh, let's get that part.

[00:32:06] So, uh, last, this one's the last article. It's kind of long, but I thought it was really interesting. They, it's a teen Vogue talking with all the show runners, Bart Nickerson, Ashley Lyle and Jonathan Lisko about the season finale. They said both the season opener and finale were huge episodes for Mari Ibarra. I guess her last name is Ibarra. I didn't even know that. Who's finally been confirmed as pit girl was Mari always pit girl and was placing her centrally within the narrative of this season.

[00:32:36] Always the plan. Ashley Lyle said, we always knew we always enjoyed Alexa's performance so much this season. She really brought it. Some of my favorite scenes from the season are her in the cave with coach Scott. That's always the hope. And the plan is that you can then fill out and flush out this character in a way that her death scene becomes truly impactful and meaningful for the audience. Mari's journey was really satisfying because she's been a bit of a favorite in the writer's room from season one.

[00:33:06] She was just such a little bitch. And I say that was so much love and Alexa can land on one liner like nobody's business, but to get a chance to flesh out her character a little bit more fully to bring in some backstory. She's, I think very complicated because you kind of love to hate her and then you kind of sort of hate to love her. This season, she's equally lovable. And other times, sometimes you just want to shake her. Like when she's ratting out coach almost immediately, I would say in Mari's defense, I'm not sure that she's the deepest thinker.

[00:33:35] And then, okay. Speaking of Shauna, you said earlier in the year that you didn't intentionally position Shauna as the series underdog with this season's plan being to pick away at that. The fandom has created a bunch of nicknames for her this season wilderness jigsaw bisexual Stalin, which the show owners laughed at. I think your efforts are paying off. Do you think people are still struggling to see the darkness at the heart of that character? Is it maybe because of how lovable Melanie Linsky is?

[00:34:03] Ashley Lyle says, I think that Melanie Melanie's Melanie-ness was almost too effective in the first two seasons. We've been very careful attempting to thread through hints at the true darkness under the surface of Shauna Shipman from the very opening when she's sleeping with Jeff and she's killing rabbits to the moment where she's telling the guy in the chop shop that her hands aren't shaking because she's afraid. It's because of how badly she wants to kill him. And she's talking viscerally about skinning people alive. It's very interesting to me that we get to this season and people are like, what?

[00:34:33] Hey, it's always been there just under the surface, but it's been really fun to work with both Sophie and Elise and Melanie and starting to have all that bubble up and be much more clear and expressed in this really honest way. And I think that both of them are really embraced it. Obviously, we we chose from a structural standpoint to have it come through with Shauna in the wilderness a little bit earlier than Shauna in the present day. But I remember we were almost all on set when we had the eat it moment in episode eight and we were just cheering at the monitor.

[00:35:01] So our hope is that as much as people are horrified by Shauna and probably angry with Shauna, I would argue for me, at least personally, it's a lot of fun to watch someone go really dark. I think it's even more fun when it's a Melanie Linsky or Brian Cranston when there's just that last thing you'd expect for us as producers and creators and showrunners. That's the dream. They said with Shauna, as well as the rest of the girls, I see so much justification online or pathologization then excusing their behavior.

[00:35:30] Shauna only bit Melissa's arm because she suffered from postpartum depression and PTSD. It's OK, Lottie acts the frog scientist because she's psychotic and doesn't have her meds. These are my feminist perfect snowflakes. Jonathan Lisko said it's interesting to me that some of our fandom continues to disbelieve that this trauma has had a dark impact on some of the characters like they're somehow going to find their angels again and act appropriately. Our answer, at least mine personally, is how could they? How could they possibly ever refine a normalcy?

[00:35:59] And then, of course, you could always ask, what is normalcy to begin with? Because we all go through something. So there's a way to sort of iterate on this trauma to talk about pretty much everybody who consumes the show. But I find it very fascinating that some people are still saying, no, no, Shauna is not that bad. It's still going to be OK. I don't know. I feel like we've kind of crossed the Rubicon at this point, but I throw it to you, Ash and Bart.

[00:36:22] Bart says, I don't know if this makes me derelict in duty, but I don't know that we're trying to concretely land on our feet in terms of moralizing our characters as much as we love them. Judging them from an ethical standpoint, they've done many, many, many things that are horrible. But in terms of whether or not they're redeemable or evil in a binary way, I don't know. It's too big a question, I think, for a television show or 100 lifetimes.

[00:36:46] I think there's always understanding and empathy, especially towards our characters that we're going to extend and try to make the experience as human as possible. Those are the terms that I think we've always thought about it. Not necessarily that we're crossing a Rubicon of darkness this season because, you know, they ate their friends so fast. I feel like we've been in a place with them for so long. And Ashley Lau says, absolutely. The dream would be for them to be perceived as feminist icons. But I don't know that perfect snowflake should be in that same sentence.

[00:37:14] I find it fascinating that the media landscape and the world of storytelling has so many examples of Tony Sopranos and Walter Whites and Don Drapers. And I'm hard pressed to think of as many characters who are women who are given the opportunity to be fucking terrible people and to still get their story told. I think that because people are unaccustomed to that, it's a little bit more shocking. And it's clearly having an impact on the fandom.

[00:37:38] I've taken a step back from Reddit and social media, but enough of it gets through to me that I'm at least aware that there's some kerfuffle happening on this front. From our perspective, the most feminist thing we could do, and we always went into this with this perspective, was just to have a world that is predominantly women and have a lot of queer characters and just let them do their fucking thing. And it's not about them being women necessarily. So often in television, it's about being a woman or it's about being queer.

[00:38:04] And we just wanted to have them be the population of our world and then let them be deeply complicated, complicated, fucked up characters who are fun to watch and do bad things. And that to me is sort of the point. That's what we were being allowed the opportunity to do. And that's really rare. So I hate to break it to anybody, but they are not perfect snowflakes. I just love all that so much. You know, it's like, why do we have to make them good?

[00:38:30] I think sometimes people like you guys tell me if I'm off base on this, but women want women characters to be perceived as good because, you know, just they want, they want, cause you're a woman and you want what's representing you to be justified on the screen. Or whatever.

[00:38:51] But I, in my view, I think it's like, yeah, just rep part of representation is you can have all sorts of characters, but that played by people that you don't usually see, you know, different ethnic backgrounds, women, whatever. It's a stereotype. You know, women are the softer sex. Yeah. And it's a stereotype for a reason, but we know in history that, that it's not always true.

[00:39:20] And I love seeing women as the villains. Like, I'm just thinking like Melanie Linsky's portrayal in The Last of Us. She was awesome in that too. Um, Cersei. Oh my gosh. Yeah. You know how much I loved that. Like there's something attractive about that, especially like when you're young, growing up in the seventies and eighties, you just didn't see that.

[00:39:50] No. No. Yeah. Representation means having different people play the full spectrum of types of characters, including. Right. Yeah. There was a lot of focus on like weak, like weakness, I think. In film and TV. With female characters. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there was a lot of. Rejection of women that were not that didn't fit the stereotype.

[00:40:19] Like for instance, um, Louisa Alcott, when writing little women, she wrote the story about her and her sisters and her mother. But the editor said, no, you have to have the main character get married. Because nobody's going to read it if you don't, if the main character doesn't get married, that's what she's supposed to do. So she had to rewrite her famous novel to show that she herself got married, which she didn't.

[00:40:50] Yeah. There's a lot of perception. Mm hmm. And, and not to say that there hasn't been a lot of change over the last. Yeah. 50 years, but. It's still, I think sometimes is a touchy area that. Mm hmm. Um, show runners. Are not always happy to address. They're afraid to go outside of the box sometimes. Yeah. This show definitely has not been. Yeah.

[00:41:17] Cause there's been a lot more just female main characters, you know, like starting back with Princess Leia, you know, or, um, Buffy the Vampire Slayer. But we're talking about a new iteration of that where it's not just the central figure that's a hero, but a central character that's fucked up. Yep. And the villain. Yeah. And the villain. Kind of. Yeah.

[00:41:40] I think Game of Thrones was pretty groundbreaking for that because it really started out very men centric, but little by little as the series went along, you had all the big power players being women. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I really loved. I get to see that. Orange is the new black too. Yes. That series really just typifies that for me where it's not really about the gender so much. It's just all these really interesting characters. Yeah.

[00:42:09] Well, we had two, not that she wasn't a villain, but Carol on the walking dead. Yeah. Her art was incredible to see where she started to where she ended. Absolutely. Absolutely. Was incredible. It was very empowering. I mean, yes, her methods were sometimes she's a great example because she did some pretty fucked up things. Sometimes.

[00:42:35] She did, but she really had to overcome a lot to even get to that point. Because she was a battered wife. And yeah. So let me see here. Um, and they just talk a little bit about what they want to see going forward, but we've already kind of covered that. So one more quick thing about a week ago, Melanie Linsky posted this post on Instagram.

[00:43:04] She said, if we get another season, I'll be better about the behind the scenes stuff. We'll have another epic mafia game and I'll take photos this time. Warren and I, that's a Jeff actor. We'll finally get good at selfies. I will continue to hang out at the grip truck where I can get the best lattes in Vancouver. Arg. We had so many lovely dinners and took no photos. Next season. I will document moments. I promise. Please give us another for now. Here's a little collection of season three.

[00:43:33] And I guess she posted some pictures about scene three. I'm so grateful to be a part of this show. This season surprised me at every turn and broke my heart. Also, I'm so scared of people being mad at me for spoilers, but I love and adore every actor who left this season. And each and every one of you had a magnificent journey and an incredible end to your story. Your performances were committed and wild and beautiful and compelling. Thank you to Ashley and Bart and Jonathan and all of our writers for this insane rollercoaster.

[00:44:03] I'm grateful to you for all eternity and can't wait to see where you take us all next. Thank you to our incredible directors this season. Thank you to the actors who I love with my whole heart. Thank you to little timing wizard and the 80 team for absolutely everything. And mostly thank you to our crew. I love you guys so very much and feel supported at every turn. I'm in awe of how hard you work and how kind you all are. Love always.

[00:44:28] It sounds like it was more for the cast and crew, but I just thought there was a lot of emotion in it. And it was notable that she doesn't even know yet, you know, they're getting renewed. Yeah. We all want it too. We're all waiting. All right, let's start our Yellow Jackets feedback portion. And we have Penny who is having the time of her life in Australia and New Zealand.

[00:45:01] Oh, hey, Yellow Jackets WTF. It's Anwen here. I've got a confession to make. I have kidnapped your co-host Penny and brought her to New Zealand. But I do have proof of life. She's right here. Oh, no. Help me help. Anwen's forcing me to have lots of fun and ride on a jet boat. Ha ha ha. Yeah. So anyway, thank you so much for your podcast coverage for the whole season. I have absolutely loved it.

[00:45:30] And sorry I stole your co-host, but it has been a really, really special time having her here. Thank you. Bye. Love you. Give her back, Anwen. We need her back. We've already promised that we're going to do another episode, like at some point once Penny gets back because we miss Penny and feel like we all need to be together.

[00:45:55] And plus, we have some ideas for some episodes once we find out if we're getting a fourth season. Yeah, Penny's been in New Zealand with Anwen and it's been really fun and jealousy inducing. Yeah. We're going to take all the pictures. Yeah. She's having such a great time. Yeah. So, Jeffrey Ashton says, Shauna knew Van had stacked the deck, so she switched spots.

[00:46:20] But if that switch had made Shauna pull the Queen of Hearts, I'm pretty sure she would have kept asking for do-overs until Mari ended up as Pit Girl. Just like how she kept demanding revotes until Coach Ben was found guilty. I was impressed by how the show connected the original Pit Girl scene to the final episode. Turns out it wasn't just an allegory, it was a flash forward to Lottie's death. That reveal made it feel like the writers had a clear path from the beginning and I thought, okay, very clever.

[00:46:49] I always assumed the Yellow Jackets just got progressively weirder with their ritual and started requiring the Pit Girl to follow a dress code? Okay. Barefoot, white pajamas plus necklace. Knowing that the Yellow Jackets weren't getting weird with their cannibal hunting ritual was refreshing. I was pleased that there is a logical explanation for why Pit Girl is running barefoot in pajamas. It made the whole sequence more satisfying.

[00:47:14] But then I started thinking, why did Mari take off her jacket and prop it up? Obviously, she was setting up a fake-out snowman. Also, dropping the weight will help her run faster. Okay, fine. But what did she expect to happen? Were the hunters supposed to stumble across the jacket, circle it confused, and start poking at it with sticks like, hmm, something's off here? All it really does is tell the hunters, hey, you're close, good job, keep going.

[00:47:43] Personally, I think she really oversold it by taking off her pants. It's like she looked at her snowman and thought, hmm, needs pants. If it were me, I'd keep my pants on. I know she didn't expect her shoes to get stuck and have to run barefoot, but pantsless with shoes on is weird to me. Especially when running outside in snow. But seriously, am I missing something? What exactly was Mari thinking? That's a good question. I don't really understand it either.

[00:48:11] When we talked about it in the podcast, I think you guys said she wanted to blend in with the snow more because her clothes were bright. Maybe that's it, right? I believe that, but you would not take your shoes off. Come on. No. And her pants were a pink color. They were not the bright, vibrant blue and magenta of her track jacket. Yeah, they were pastel. So, yeah, I don't think I would have lost my shoes in that moment.

[00:48:41] I think I would have taken the jacket off, absolutely, but not the pants and the shoes. Yeah, I agree with that. Thanks, Jeffrey. Eliza Yarenga says, lots of connections. Full circle indeed. Misty consoling Callie and telling her that Lottie's death was an accident caused out of fear. This reminds me of Misty and Crystal's accidental death in season two.

[00:49:08] Mari heard the dripping in the cabin during season two. Then they drag and hang Mari's body and let her blood drip out before the feast in the season finale. Was Mari's death karma for coach? I could go on. It was a great season finale. Yeah, the dripping thing. Yeah. Yeah. She did. I love that connection and I didn't think of it before.

[00:49:31] Erin Salza says, Lottie had a tight grip on Callie's wrist while explaining her creepy forest child woo-woo. When Callie pulled away is most likely when Lottie got the DNA under her nails. I believe that's true. My child told me that and I have seen lots of feedback about it. Yeah, I think there's- we're gonna read more people writing about it. Yeah. So thanks everybody. From KX, the Misty Sean a difference.

[00:49:58] If I accidentally killed one person and spur of the moment injured three people, how is that worse than Misty premeditated murdering two out of three people she killed? It would be three for three if not for Nat getting in the way. She is also loosely teamed up with Walter who doesn't seem to mind premeditated murder and blackmail that they know about. Who does like the crew of Misty never tells them that.

[00:50:24] The bed check I believe is them checking to make sure Nat isn't hiding supplies to leave. The hunt is actually three things. Leave team manufacturing a hunt. Nat and Misty and Van leaving to use the radio. Them running to Hannah and she explains it needs to be in a high place. Third plan is Jen and Melissa plan to kill Shauna before anyone gets to Mari. If Melissa kills Shauna first, the hunt ends and Mari lives.

[00:50:50] Van would have actually hunted if it was Hannah like planned, but it was Mari so she walked around. People think characters dying on a show about characters dying is abrupt when shows being canceled is actually abrupt and worse than death. So don't worry about character deaths. Worry about the story stays alive long enough to tell it. I think they searched Nat's tent for possibly hoarding supplies in an attempt to escape. If she was taking supplies that would limit those who stayed like Shauna and Lottie.

[00:51:19] I'm worried about character deaths and canceling. Okay, I can worry about both. But that's it. I mean, that is interesting though. I appreciate that point. So many times shows get canceled with no resolution, especially like on Netflix. We've seen that with a couple of great shows that were canceled that way and you don't get an answer and you don't get closure.

[00:51:43] And so whatever's going on in the attempts or negotiations for the next season of this show, I hope they are able to iron out what they need to. And I agree with you about Misty and her premeditated murders. Tim from Germany says, hi, fellow citizen detectives. I'm Tim from Germany and I recently discovered your podcast. WTF yellow jackets. That is since I don't know how many people who watch the show.

[00:52:12] In fact, just one of my friends and he hasn't even started the third season yet. What? He doesn't. He's not a fan. It's really nice to tune into your discussions and visit the subreddit. So I don't feel too alone in with my obsession. I just wanted to share two points. One, first of all, I think there might be an interesting parallel or maybe a contrast when Natalie and the finale asked if anybody can hear her over the sat phone. It reminded me of their chant. We hear the wilderness and the wilderness. Here's us.

[00:52:40] The key difference being that the wilderness never actually answers them. All the quote communication they get from it is either ambiguous or later revealed. To be something, uh, something natural like the bull frogs being the source of the shrieking sounds. But Natalie finally gets an answer and answer literally saying, I can hear you. If that wording was intentional, it could be a hint that adult Shauna might've been right. When she said there was no it, it was just us.

[00:53:04] Notice how, as soon as the frog scientists arrive and there's a real chance of rescue, most of them abandoned the idea of the wilderness. It was a way to find comfort and meaning when there was no hope of immediate rescue. But now that someone is actually answering in clear language, they can understand. They don't need that idea anymore. Yeah. I think there's a lot of truth to that. Yeah. Two. My second point is more of a question.

[00:53:28] What if Shauna had been picked for the second hunt either because Tyson van rigged the cards to make sure she drew the queen of hearts? Yeah. Why didn't they rig it for her? I don't know. Or because Shauna switched spots, maybe out of suspicion that they were targeting her. I think she mainly switched because she was paranoid that Tyson van were out to get her. I can't really see Shauna accepting that result. And since she was one of the main driving forces behind the actual hunting, I'm not sure how the others would have proceeded.

[00:53:57] I could imagine Melissa and whoever else was in on the ambush plan seeing it as a welcome opportunity. But what about the group around Natalie? Would this change their plans? What do you guys think? Excited to hear your thoughts. Buzz, buzz, buzz, Tim. I wonder why they didn't target Shauna. They said there's only one of us here who's not one of us or something like that.

[00:54:20] So I guess even as much as Shauna was a problem, they still didn't hate her enough to want to kill her. I guess. Till the end. Yeah. She had the gun at the end. So those were some of my thoughts. But to me, that's even more of a reason you gotta take her out. Yeah. All right. We have a voicemail from Daniela.

[00:54:49] Hello, Podtastica besties. It's me, Daniela. The Misty to your Natalie. Anyways, great finale. I thought it was amazing. And I wanted to call and shed some light on something that we were all sort of not sure about, kind of confused on. And when you guys discussed it, you definitely had different interpretations of it. Well, I have put my citizen detective skills to work and I think I have some answers for us. As far as who was plotting with who and why. So, we see Akilah crying. She's found the dead animals. She's devastated.

[00:55:19] When this happens, I did notice Melissa and Jen gave each other a look. And I didn't know why at the time, but it was very suspicious. So I knew they were in on something. Then we later reveal Akilah killed the animals so that they could have a hunt. And when they're discussing this, it is Akilah, Mari, Melissa and Jen. So these four girls have decided, just the four of them, that they want to have a hunt. But why? I'll tell you why, my friends. I'll tell you.

[00:55:48] I watched the Behind the Buzz YouTube episode. This is a Yellow Jackets channel. And in the interview, Sophie Nellie says, the girls want a hunt so that they can subtly kill Shauna. What? I did not see that. That is not what I took from it at all. But this came from teen Shauna's mouth herself. So that was the plan. That is why Melissa attacked her in the woods. That was not a spontaneous attack. That was a deliberate plan to take Shauna out.

[00:56:18] So, the four of them decide we'll kill the animals. We do a hunt. And in the chaos and distraction of it all, we've got to take Shauna out so we can get the hell out of here. So that was their four plan. I don't think anybody else was in on it. They definitely didn't expect Mari to be the one that pulls the queen card. But nonetheless, I don't think the girls were hunting her at all. Akilah was in the cave. Jen was creating a diversion. And Melissa was obviously after Shauna. So that was one separate plan. Wow. Crazy, right?

[00:56:47] Did you guys know that? And then there's a separate plan with Natalie, Van, and Misty. And I don't believe anybody knows about the phone or the transponder. Because if they did, they would hate Misty and probably kill her. So I think only those three girls. I don't even believe that Van has shared this information with Ty. Since Ty was on team, let's not leave. Crazy. So I think the three of them's plan was get the phone to a place where it's working.

[00:57:15] Because obviously it's turning on is what Van says. But they're not getting service. So we got to get Natalie out. And I think this Hannah helping was a very last minute thing. She's just showing them that she's on their side and she wants to get out of there. So she trades places with Natalie to buy Natalie even more time so she can get to the highest peak living on the edge. So that was amazing. I hope that explains a little bit. And I hope, I hope, I hope we have a season four and five.

[00:57:44] I could have sworn when the show first started that Melanie Linsky in an interview said they were signed on for five seasons. But you guys saying you're not sure made me question that. Am I crazy? It just seems weird that they haven't renewed it given the ratings. It seems like a contractor business. Yeah. I don't think they were signed on. I don't know if they were signed on for five, but I read that typically in shows now these days, it's like three.

[00:58:11] So maybe there's a renegotiating hurdle happening. That's what I'm thinking. The actors or something. Probably with the adult actresses. Yeah. Please pay them and continue this, please. But Daniela. Yeah, I think there's in fact, one of the messages we already read sort of mentioned this too. But yeah, part of some of the girls plan was to kill Shauna. And we didn't catch that. We didn't talk about it when we covered the episode, but I love it.

[00:58:39] I don't think it was totally clear in the episode, but we should go back again and watch. But what's really interesting about it to me is we saw that hunt in the pilot and then we saw this mysterious antler queen eating, you know, the spoils of the hunt with everyone else. And what we didn't realize is that during that hunt, some of them were actually trying to kill her. Yeah. Yeah. Great. This is great. Multiple people said this. So it didn't really.

[00:59:08] I mean, obviously, Melissa was trying to kill her. And if she did, that would have solved some of their problems. But. You know, then she did. It didn't. It did seem like spur of the moment, but it makes sense that it was also planned. Mm hmm. Yeah. They maybe should have had someone else do it. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Totally. You know, just saying Melissa might have been the wrong choice.

[00:59:35] Maybe they picked her just because there was all this conflict between the two of them recently, you know. Could be. Where she yelled at her, you're nothing in front of everyone. Yep. All right. Brian Harris says, dear yellow jackets, WTF. You all said you didn't see how Lottie got DNA under her fingernails. Mm hmm. But I saw Lottie reach for Callie's arms. And she jerked away from her moments before the shove.

[01:00:04] This grazing of her arms could have easily explained how DNA got under her nails. Then we get Callie's accidental murder shove. Come on. I'm surprised she didn't get some entrails delivered to the building to dump on poor Lottie's baby body. I thought Misty was dead when she was telling Shawna about confronting Callie. I expected the knife in her back when she turned to clean Caligula's cage. Never ever turn your back on Shawna.

[01:00:30] During the hunt, I was so proud of Melissa for attacking Shawna. I was out of my chair cheering her on. I wanted her to finish the job. Spoiler alert. Shawna lives. Natalie on the mountain top with the sack phone. The plan worked. What a season. It cannot be over. Too many unanswered questions. Love the show. Love the pod. Buzz, buzz, buzz for season four. Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz. Laura says, hi, yellow jackets, WTF.

[01:01:00] I echo a lot of the concerns of other listeners that this season's plotting and pacing were amiss and the deaths of Van and Lottie were done poorly. I expect a lot of death on this show, but two brilliant actors were misused and apparently misled by the showrunners. But I'm writing in about pretty major scientific inaccuracies that are very much bugging me.

[01:01:21] I don't expect a show like yellow jackets to be perfect, but I know they hire consultants and I think such a major plot point as the cause of their rescue should be a bit more accurate. For context, a black box is also known as a flight recording device. If you go back to that episode, you can see it says that on the side. And that is indeed what they look like in real life. Parentheses. I work in signal processing. Cool.

[01:01:49] A black box does not emit an emergency signal to be rescued. It has the recording of the cockpit during the flight. It does have an emergency SONAS signal emitter if the box is submerged. Importantly, this is a transmitter only, not a receiver. This transmitter helps rescuers find a sunken black box. This signal emitted for about 30 days and be detected.

[01:02:13] This signal is emitted for about 30 days and can be detected at short distance, 100 to 200 meters. The SAT, I think it's 100 to 200 meters. It just says M. So, um, it could be miles. Uh, the SAP phone on the other hand uses electromagnetic waves and contains transmitter and receivers. The acoustic transmitter could not be used to replace an electromagnetic transducer.

[01:02:43] Completely different signals, completely different technologies, completely different materials. Furthermore, SAP phones were highlight regulated in the 1990s. And even if Nat fixed the SAP phone, they would have been able to identify the call as from the Fraugger's SAP phone because of the registered EM signatures associated with the license. Anyway, this isn't super important, but all of this can be found on the relevant wiki pages.

[01:03:10] So it's kind of frustrating because it makes it more clear to me they didn't do basic research. What's more basic than wiki? Yeah. Love, love the pod. Thanks, Laura. Thank you, Laura, for that. Yeah. In the show, they call it the transponder. And, um, Laura would probably know this, but I read there is a device that could be, uh, uh, more of a signal emitter.

[01:03:35] It's not this black box or flight recording device that maybe they could have used, but I don't know. Yeah, it was, it's dramatic license, I guess. Yeah. Jennifer O'Rourke says, Hey, I'm a new listener. Also listening to your Handmaid's Tale podcast. Nice. And I have to thank you guys. I love both these shows, but no one I know watches them. So it's so nice to hear your thoughts and opinions. Thank you. Thank you.

[01:04:03] After watching the finale, I cannot help but wonder if originally there would have been a showdown between adult Nat and adult Shauna. After watching teen Nat and teen Shauna's dynamic, it seems like a great setup for the adult versions to beat the last two left. The ultimate showdown. I guess we'll never know. It's such a pity they did not recast adult Nat as narratively. I think that would have been amazing saying that. How do you recast the legend Juliette Lewis? That was the first thing I thought when you, yeah, I hope the above makes sense. And thanks for everything you do.

[01:04:33] Thank you, Jen. Yeah. I mean, it's a shame, but I feel like given that Juliette Lewis kind of bailed, it seems like that. I don't, I don't know if it would have been good. I would be really curious to see what season three would have looked like with Juliette Lewis. And I get, I totally get, you know, she's got to do what's best for her, but you can't help but wonder what that would have been like and how they would have written it differently. Yeah.

[01:05:03] Yeah. And I wouldn't be surprised if they would, that's what they would have wanted. You know, they probably would have wanted her to stick around. All right. We have a voicemail from Steve Brown. Hello, Yellow Jackets WTF. This is Steven. Wow. I'm back from vacation and I'm just watching how the story ends.

[01:05:26] And I wish I was live steving it because when Hannah turned around and knifed Cody in the eye. Whoa, I would have definitely, that would have been a moment. Yeah. Here we are though. Episode 10. What's it called? Okay. Full circle. Full circle. In this beginning. What are they, somebody's body? What? I don't know. I'm so confused by this opening, this cold open already. And it's not even. Lottie and young Lottie. What?

[01:05:50] Oh, I don't know if this is going to be your effed up moment of the week or not, but oh, Ty eating. Did she cut out Vann's heart? Okay. So, Callie killed Lottie and this scene in the stairwell is what Lottie dreamt about when she was in the wilderness. Wow. Oh, she just pushed her. That's no accident, Callie. That's pretty serious. Ooh. Meanwhile, back in the wilderness, Vann is stirring the pot. And it's winter again and something killed all the animals.

[01:06:20] Ooh, back in the present, we find Shawna coming home to an empty house. What were they using Cody's head for target practice with the arrows? Ew. Yeah. And Vann's going to use sleight of hand to pick who gets the Queen of Hearts, right? Ooh, but of course, Shawna changing spots throws off who's going to get what card now. And now they're on the hunt for Mari. Okay. So, Jen led Taisa away from Shawna in order to give Mari a chance to escape.

[01:06:46] But yet Mari's still, I don't, this hunt is weird. Ooh. And she just fell in the pit. Parks and Rec reference there. Okay. I'm going to pause this for a second. Yeah. So, meanwhile, back in the present, Taisa's talking to herself at a diner. Oh, maybe she is talking to somebody. Ah, Misty. Ooh, Shawna, cold as ever. And when it's done, bring me her hair. Oh, and Shawna just found Melissa's note that was in the package.

[01:07:10] Oh, so Natalie walked out, took the sat phone with her. Okay. Okay. Okay. There's gotta be another season of this, right? Come on. Exactly, Steve. All right. Lucas from Evansville, Indiana says, I can't wait for season four. There's so much we haven't seen and I'm dying to see.

[01:07:37] You guys have been on the fence as to if they could really get five seasons out of this show. And I think they're right on track for the teen timeline. The adult timeline is to be determined. Season four will be split between the rescue, the immediate aftermath of them getting home and all that. I think there's a lot of flashbacks and things that will fill some time as well. And season five will be whatever the awful things they alluded to when they returned.

[01:08:04] And then the yellow jackets eventually parting ways. It sounded like in season one, they don't talk regularly except for Shawna and Tais on the burner phone. And from the sounds of it, they haven't talked at all in 25 years until we pick the show up in the pilot. I think they make their pact of silence and never speak to each other again.

[01:08:27] They all had the same. Our plane crashed. My friends died and the rest of us scavenged, survived and prayed until we were rescued. And it sounds like they all stuck to it. Does somebody get home and try to make a book deal or start talking to the press and do the others kill her to silence her? Very possible. All that said, there are so many things I can't wait for. And hope we get and questions we get answers to.

[01:08:54] Nat makes the call on the sat phone to get them rescued, we assume. How do they explain that? Because it doesn't sound like from the Google search Callie did on Hannah, that the yellow jackets are connected to the frog scientists' disappearance in any way. So how do they explain getting that sat phone? Does badass Shawna return and basically threaten Jeff into marriage? He knocked her up and was basically the cause of all her anguish out there.

[01:09:22] Without her being pregnant, Jackie wouldn't have found out about them and might very well be alive and Shawna might not have gone psycho. When do they all get their story straight and make their pact? And does anybody break it and what are the consequences? How do they get rid of Hannah and all traces of her before they're rescued? Will we ever meet Shawna's 90s family? I have been wondering about what's going on back at home, but I think the show runners did the right thing by not going back there at all.

[01:09:51] They're keeping us all in the wilderness, so to speak. But I think a good chunk of season four might be flashbacks that we've been dying to see. I want to see the families and schools reaction when the plane doesn't arrive in Seattle. The aftermath of national media attention and the fading hope once they give up hope of a rescue and the whole town accepts that they're all dead, never be heard from again. I'd love a flashback to the pilots failing to publish an outdated flight plan

[01:10:19] and maybe an explanation of how the plane went down and got so off course. I want to see the FBI or police tearing into school and informing the principal that the plane has been found and there are survivors and the news spreading throughout the school and town in an age before social media. I want to see the same reaction when the families are notified. Ty mentions they agreed to keep their secrets and Shawna left her journals for her husband to read. And they also know Jeff tried to blackmail them.

[01:10:48] And Melissa knows where Shawna lives, wants revenge and is in the wind. Do Ty and Misty separately? Maybe Melissa go after Jeff to kill him because he knows too much? And maybe Callie as well. Does Callie embrace the darkness and decide to be the one to take out the surviving yellow jackets? I can't wait for seasons four and five. I think season four, if done right, has the potential to be as good as season one. I love all those ideas. Yeah, that's great.

[01:11:20] Susie Shinsky says, Dear Yellow Jackets WTF, I love your podcast so much. I can't find anyone else watching the show, so I don't have anyone to talk to about it. I love all your different views and love hearing from other listeners. I just wanted to make one comment on the last episode. I really don't think that Lottie and Akilah were in on the plans to distract Shawna so Natalie could get away to try to call someone. In the beginning of the episode, Lottie is having dreams about the Antler Queen and trying to get closer.

[01:11:50] I think she and Akilah were on their own separate plans trying to get everyone else to believe and keep it at the forefront of their wilderness experience. So I agree with Jason that I think Akilah poisoned her animals was fucked up because I think it was to appease Lottie not to help others distract Shawna. That's my two cents. Thanks for all the wonderful theories and ideas. It makes the show so much more fun. Buzz, buzz. Buzz, buzz.

[01:12:17] You know, I wish I would have went back and watched the episode again before we recorded this because I'm still confused about a bunch of things. Uh, but thanks. Yeah, that's exactly what I thought the first time I watched through it. Cassie Kelleher says hi, finally getting my shit together and sending this email instead of talking to my Spotify player. We've all been there. These episode, the, these episode meanings always have two meanings.

[01:12:45] I think that's Thanksgiving doesn't just to market the time or the time of year, but also is about how coach Ben is grateful to be put out of his misery. Yeah, totally. And he has given his body to the team in the finale. I wonder if the coach realized they were going to eat him. I don't thought about that. Maybe he did. And yeah, didn't care. In the finale. Did you all see how excited Lottie was drawing the cards and her disappointment and not getting the queen of hearts? No. No.

[01:13:15] When Callie pushed her down the stairs, I think she finally got to be the sacrifice she wanted to be for whatever reason she has. Wow. I didn't think about that at all. No. No one wants to talk to me about complex shows. So thanks for sparing my nearest and dearest from my ramblings. That's what we're here for. From another person who has a tendency to make things worse, not murder scene related. Cassie. That was a fun message. All right.

[01:13:44] We have a voicemail. Hi, you guys. This is Alma. I'm leaving a message for the Yellow Jackets WTF finale. Well, I'm actually already listening to the podcast as we speak. And I had to take a break just to kind of come on here and give my two cents. Yeah.

[01:14:13] You guys were talking about how, you know, people are invested in the characters and all that. And we expect a certain behavior out of them. And then we get upset when we don't get it. And I don't see that show as being this. And I think that's the only good character that there was was Nat and they killed her off. And so I've been really struggling with this season in general.

[01:14:42] And I'm like holding on for dear life, just hoping. And I was kind of hoping Melissa was going to be a good character because I just love Hillary Swank. But she's just as vile as, as Shauna. And I just can't wait for Shauna to get killed off. I know a lot of you guys love her, but I just can't stand her. She's just the worst young Shauna and old Shauna.

[01:15:10] And I have a feeling of this is my theory. I have a feeling that Jeff is going to put her out because, you know, he'll be the closest one to her. And we will. Nobody will expect it, I guess. But that's what I'm well, at least that's what I'm thinking. And, you know, I came up with the theory. I'm thinking that all these chicks are going to die. There's not going to be not one left by the end of the series.

[01:15:40] They're all going to die because they all should have died on that, that wreck and out there in that wilderness. They all should have died. So I feel like it's kind of like a final destination type thing. And, yeah. And not once did I ever believe that there was anything supernatural out there. And, no, it was all they, like, I think it was all made up by them to, what is it called?

[01:16:11] To validate what they were doing. The awful things that they were doing out there. And, yeah, it's trauma and all that. But I don't feel bad for them. They're despicable people. At any rate. Yeah. I will see if I tune in next season. Because I just, this season without Natalie, it just felt pretty flat for me. But, and yeah. And who cares about Lottie getting killed? And I was like, nobody cares. Just move on.

[01:16:40] Let's move on. But I, and I do like, I do like Misty. I know she's vile too. But I like the fact that how clever she is in figuring stuff out. I just love her. And I do think that Walter is going to be a, ultimately end up being a villain. And he just hasn't taken off his mask yet. So to speak. But at any rate, that's just my two cents.

[01:17:10] I know it's, it's unpopular. Um, uh, thoughts, but that's how it is. All right. I, um, I will tune in to you guys as you keep going. Maybe you'll convince me otherwise, but so far I'm hanging by. That was great. That was great. We welcome all opinions. Yeah.

[01:17:39] Even if you're wrong, it's fine. Just call me. No, I mean, I think, um, yeah. Like I bet you all of it. There are a lot of people watching the show who are just like you that aren't even sure they want to keep going. So, uh, I bet you they're not along with your message there. Heather from Oregon says have really enjoyed your coverage of this incredible show. Many thanks.

[01:18:06] It's been hard to wait a week between episodes, but your coverage has eased the impatience. First, I agree with listener Jason Burke with his Wendigo theory. Next, I am curious about Walter and don't think he's just benign. I Googled his name and the real Walter Tattersail was a scientist 19th, early 20th century, along with his vanity plates that read not Walter.

[01:18:34] And finally, the antler queen costume is extraordinarily similar to the New Zealand Maori cook away dress, which is sometimes decorated with either dog or human hair and indicate a person of high status. If fashioned after this, I'm not happy with the cultural appropriation. Best wishes from Oregon, Heather.

[01:18:59] Uh, yeah, people, I don't understand why people are like, you know, maybe Walter's actually a good guy or here. Heather's like, I don't, you know, I don't think he's just benign because we saw him kill Kevin. Yeah. People just forget about that. Justice for Kevin. I don't forget it. It's like he's a dirt bag. Walter sucks. Yeah. I mean, he was trying to protect Missy, but that's no excuse. You kill an innocent guy.

[01:19:28] That sucks. He's awful. My two cents. We have a message from Anna from Ukraine. Hello there. It's Anna from Ukraine and I'm still here. Still bitter about Vans death and yellow jackets. Bam badge is still on the floor, but I liked the finale overall. But a few notes. One, I thought there would be way more hunts. And the one we saw in the pilot is like pre rescue time. The last hunt. Also, it opens possibility for more possible survivors. Not sure how I feel about it.

[01:19:58] Two. I love Ty eating Vans heart. Very poetic and tragic. Also, it creates a possible return of Lauren Ambrose as ghost Van. But what gave me an ick was that Ty buried the rest of Anne's body God knows where. Three. If the drift between the girls was planned, then probably killing Van was the only way to destroy Taisa Shauna alliance. Four. Mari is the pick is the girl in the pit was said to see her go.

[01:20:28] Five. As predicted in my first theory, Callie is a murderer like her mother. Hooray. But I need to rewatch the season because her reaction was off when Shauna said Lottie is dead. I guess I fucked up and gave Shauna the tape. Interesting move from a culprit. That that yeah. Six. Happy that as predicted, Caligio has nothing to do with Lottie's death. Seven.

[01:20:54] By the way, I think it was Sophie and Elise who said that the hunt was invoked by trying to kill Shauna and not just to distract her. That was brought up earlier. Absolutely. Eight. There is still debate of is it supernatural or trauma, but I'm a believer that it's both at the same time kind of a lovecraft situation here. Thulu is a wilderness and the girls are affected by its presence, but the wilderness doesn't really speak to them.

[01:21:21] It's just energy and aura of the wilderness makes them feel uneasy and clouds their mindset that they wouldn't think rationally. Nine. The cannibalism part is all Shauna's fault. It's her way to conquer the other girls and get their power. It all started with Jackie, who was their leader and by the one who ate her ear and then took a first bite of Jackie's body. It's what made her an ultimate aunt Laqueen. Hashtag not my aunt, aunt Laqueen.

[01:21:52] And ten. It's interesting that the adults don't remember what happened out there, which explains why Natalie or Thaisa would ever be friends or talk to Shauna. It's a great parallel to Stephen King's It. In the story, adults remember more vividly what happened to them as teenagers, the closer they got into their hometown and through interactions with Pennywise. But the question, who is the ultimate villain like Pennywise in Yellowjackets that our ladies would defeat Shauna or the wilderness?

[01:22:22] Also, my question for you fellow Americans just curious about politics. If Thaisa was picked to the Senate, wouldn't she be like 24-7 in Washington, D.C., or would she still be in a New Jersey administration office from time to time, be with her team going to Washington, D.C.? Just curious. P.S. Hopefully there will be a rewatch discussion since we now know so many answers. Love your podcast.

[01:22:50] Hopefully there is a season four renewal and have a nice week. Mm-hmm. Anna, thank you. A hundred percent. Great. Thank you so much. Thaisa is in the state Senate, so she wouldn't be in Washington, D.C., but she also isn't in the state Senate, right? She. Right. She got ousted or abdicated or something. Yeah, yeah. There's another term for it that I can. Yeah. Yeah. And I like the thing about Stephen King's It.

[01:23:20] It definitely reminds me of that. Yeah, they all forgot. Yeah. I didn't think about that comparison until now. Yeah. Just this second. Jason Patag says, Mari, Melissa, and Jen had a murder plot set for Shauna. Yep. I think you're right. I think once Shauna changed spots in the card shuffle and Mari was chosen, she gives up part of the plan when she yelled, you deserve everything coming to you. Yeah. Good point. I think the plan was to isolate Shauna and kill her, but Mel wasn't a killer yet.

[01:23:48] I think Mari was hoping that the others would neutralize Shauna, blow the horn, and she'd be spared. But she didn't heed Lottie's warning about being here before and ran straight into the pit. Yeah. You know what Mari should have done if that really was the plan is she should have just fucking killed Shauna. Yeah. I think she was. Well, she kind of tried. Yeah. She did grab the knife to try. Yeah, she tried to grab for the knife. And it also partially, I guess, explains why she took her clothes off. Maybe she felt like they were gonna succeed and she really wouldn't be out there very long.

[01:24:18] Hmm. But I don't, I don't know. This whole thing about Shauna and the plot to kill her has just like taken my brain and I am just. It makes a lot of sense. It does. And now I want to rewatch. I've got to rewatch it and pay attention for those points. Yep. Angela Gordon from Marengo, Illinois says, Hi, everyone. Buzz, buzz, buzz. Regarding the issue with Callie's DNA under Lottie's fingernails.

[01:24:46] Before Callie pushed Lottie, Lottie grabbed Callie's arm with both hands, like to pull her down the stairs and Callie's yanked her arm free. Lottie's nails could have scratched down Callie's arm and collected it at that time. Just my observation. Love listening to your podcast after each episode. Can't wait for the next season. I think you guys are just making this up. I don't think. Just kidding. Okay. Michelle Curley says, Hello, all love your pods so much. Just to credit myself.

[01:25:16] I have to say that I did call in a few episodes back with the necklace theory that Daphne talked about. The necklace represents whomever the wilderness it chooses as both the leader and the sacrificial lamb. And it gets passed accordingly. Think about it. Jackie, the original necklace wearer was their team leader and the wilderness chose her to become the first victim. She was not forced to go outside and freeze to death. She could have given up her snit and gone back into the warmth. And yet she didn't. And she died.

[01:25:45] Anyway, more food for thought. I really hope there will be two more seasons. Buzz, buzz, buzz. Buzz. So the necklace. So, uh, not to get too deep into it, but it's interesting. So Jackie had it, then she was the leader and then she died, but also Shauna had it and she, she's the leader, but she hasn't died. So I don't know if that totally pans out. Nat had it and died.

[01:26:11] Nat had it and died and she was the leader, but she didn't die until much later. Everyone dies at some point. That's right. I mean, that's true. So I don't know if that corroborates the theory is my point. This whole thing. Now looking at the wilderness and calling it like it, it chooses it, it, it just now connecting with the steam King movie. It and all of that is just like blowing my mind right now. It is. We're going to see Pennywise out there. Yeah, he is. Yeah.

[01:26:41] Don't you want a balloon? Shauna. We all float down here. Chris Seth says Shauna has to die. When she called their time in the wilderness. So much fun. She displayed a sociopathy from which there is no rehabilitation. Oh, don't be a wet blanket, man. I'm just kidding. In real life, people can change and I wouldn't want anyone to die.

[01:27:09] But in my escapism, there better be some damn consequences for uninhibited assholes who relish in depravity. Shauna equated hunting and murdering other people with the greatest heights life has to offer. And that, okay, you're convincing me here. And that hyperventilating sadism needs to be crushed. There's certainly some projection here on my part as I yell at my TV about how that fascist bitch better catch it. But I have absolutely zero room in my life for any more compassionless, power hungry narcissists just out to engorge themselves.

[01:27:38] Ty was completely right when she said the worst of what we went through. Shauna fueled it. She thrived on it. In season one, I thought Shauna could be the character to root for somebody who was damaged by their trauma, but had a soul left to potentially rehabilitate. Now at the end of season three, the shows like succession sopranos, Yellowstone, et cetera, where there are no good characters. The best there is to root for now is that they devour each other. I think it was your pod where I heard Vince Gilligan said we need some more hero shows right now.

[01:28:06] I think that's why I'm sticking with Daredevil. It's not great, but at least there are some characters to believe in. Plus, there's another great podcast to come on. I don't know about you guys, but I could use a little more inspiration right now. Y'all rock Chris. I can't totally argue with that man. Nope. I mean, I love these dark shows, but I'm really hoping the Vince Gilligan one coming up where he is going to do a show about a hero is good and that we won't be bored with somebody who doesn't try to eat their friends.

[01:28:35] But it is Reese Seahorn, right? Reese Seahorn is in. Yeah. Then her is a hero. Come on. I'm all in for that too. And Vince Gilligan behind it. Yeah. It's going to be great. I wonder if Chris is watching Handmaid's Tale. I'm curious. Because that's such a meaty show and it has some really amazing characters in it. Like if you want characters that are softless and do good things. They do good things.

[01:29:04] I feel like it's on there. But I mean, well, we don't want to get into a Handmaid's Tale talk right now. We've got plenty of that to come. Yeah. Save it for the pod. Yeah. Okay. All right. Angela Keating says, I love your podcast and I feel like you guys have the best take on the episodes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. I think Melissa is the ultimate puppet master and her main goal is to ruin Shauna's life for her behavior in the woods.

[01:29:33] I know one question is why wait so long, but I think she waited until Shauna got married, had a kid, and had a normal life. It is the best time to go in and wreak havoc. My first time thinking this is when all the adult Yellow Jackets are at Melissa's house and Misty tells Shauna that she's not staying to help Shauna clean up her mess. If you watch Melissa's reaction to this in the background, she is very pleased with Misty telling Shauna to pretty much shove it as if the plan is coming together.

[01:30:03] Now the Walter portion. I have heard the theories that he is related to Melissa. Not sure about this, but I do think they are working together. The fact that he left Lottie's phone with Misty, knowing Misty would look at it, seems really sus. It's as if he is leading her somewhere. I think Adam was part of whatever plot is afoot with Melissa and Walter and ultimately why Kevin was killed. I don't think Walter killed Kevin to protect the Yellow Jackets.

[01:30:30] It was to prevent him from messing up the progression of whatever they have plotted and to keep things moving forward. Not sure if any of that is true, but fun to talk about. Buzz, buzz, buzz, Angela. Great theories. I just think he loves Misty and he's trying to make reasons to. I think he wants to eat Misty. He wants to be citizen detective and nuzzle up next door and solve crimes. Yes. Yes.

[01:30:57] Michael Hawkins says, hello again, Yellow Jackets WTF. Not sure if anyone has said this yet, but could Melissa's unlicensed therapist be the same as Lottie's very unlicensed therapist from season two or at least a close colleague? Thanks, Michael. Let me refer you to a little psychotherapist. Yes. Could be. That's kind of what I was thinking actually at the time, but it would be kind of weird to have two of those, but I don't know with a show. You never know.

[01:31:28] Kara Lachule says so hard to organize my thoughts, but I'll just say this one. I didn't expect to cheer at the finale that ending gave me chills. And two, dare I say, we may now know why Mari was always hearing a dripping noise, a little foreshadowing to being strung up like an animal to let the blood drain after the hunt. Yeah, totally. And yeah, that is the thing. Like, you know, the message back a little ways from I think Chris about how there's no one to root for.

[01:31:56] And Nat, I feel like Nat is one of the purest characters, but unfortunately the adult version is gone. So, but there's still team Natalie and I'm still, I've been team Natalie from the beginning, especially like with her teen story. And I'm yeah, I still, I I'm she's tainted for me because of coach.

[01:32:21] I, I feel like Akilah's the one that I feel like was really trying to do good the most. I mean, they're all shades. Yeah, they are. I didn't expect Akilah to still be alive at this point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Matt King says, what a way to end the season, resolving Lottie's killer. Thanks to Misty. Shawna effectively killing Mari with the switch in the card selection and that switcheroo at

[01:32:49] the end with Hannah to give Nat the time to get to high ground and to get a response from the distress call. Roll on season four. Roll on. Jason Patag, who has sent us another message says this finale was great. Answering the pilot questions of Antla Queen and pick girl were satisfying, but the least

[01:33:14] of the intrigue, all those pilot shots with the context that this was all a swerve to keep team crazy off Natalie's scent was incredible. If Shawna doesn't jump the card line, maybe Nat doesn't get the info from Hannah that she needs to go to higher ground. Hannah is a total unsung hero. She, at least in my mind, gave Nat info to help with the sat phone and by switching clothes with Nat became the butcher.

[01:33:42] As far as we know, only Shawna and Nat have prepared a human. So Hannah having to do it for the first time under the pressure of the escape plan is wild. There and being devastated when she walked up to the edge of the pit and saw an impaled Mari was so sad. In the adult timeline, do we think that Ty and Misty will take Walter on as a partner to take Shawna down? Or possibly assemble the red shirt yellow jackets?

[01:34:07] Sorry for the rambling thread, but I just needed to get some of this stuff out of my head. Long live Queen Shipman. You might be the only one today, Jason, that is, you know, wanting Shawna to live long because it seems like we've had quite a few people saying it's time for her to go. I mean, I do relish Shawna, you know? Yeah, me too. Yeah. Great.

[01:34:35] I liked Walter White, too. I mean, liked as in watching him. But also, I do feel like there's a lot of Shawna blaming for everything. And Shawna is not to blame for everything. Like there were a lot of people participating in a lot of this. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

[01:34:57] I think that if you look at different moments in the timeline for this show, you can see things happening that were basically little catalysts to driving them to the direction of where they've ended up. Yeah. I go back to and I know I mentioned this on a prior podcast, Laura Lee's death. Like, if she hadn't died.

[01:35:24] Would things have progressed to this level because she was such a force with Lottie that had been the moral compass. She might have been somebody to say, hey, this isn't right. No, they the moral compasses seem to keep dying on the show. Yeah. Jason mentioned that Hannah did Hannah tell that she needed to go high with the sat phone. Probably. Right.

[01:35:54] So she was kind of a savior there. Yeah. And then Hannah needed had to be the butcher and I just couldn't accept it for some reason. But yeah, she, she had to keep impersonating that. Right. So she had to go through that. Yeah. And it makes me think how on Thanksgiving's my family would always try to get me to carve the turkey and I refuse because I suck at it.

[01:36:19] And if I was dressed up like Nat and they told me to do that, I'd be like, I'll do my best. But they, I'm sure they'd be like, what the hell is wrong with you? They had, why are you doing it like that? She had to buy Natalie as much time as she could because you could see the rage in Shauna when she realized Natalie wasn't there because it was all about keeping them in the woods and not leaving. I understand what the point was. I'm just saying I wouldn't be very good. No, no, definitely not.

[01:36:48] Definitely not. No. And, and Hannah had to really go to crazy lengths to survive. I mean, I mean, we know, we don't think she survived, but up until now, like she did some crazy things. Yeah. Yeah. She's a, she's either a psycho or an impressive person. Yeah.

[01:37:15] Well, if she hadn't have done those things, she probably would be dead. Right. One way or another. She wasn't. I mean, I just know that I think you, Wendy, or some people were like, oh, is she, is she actually just crazy or evil or something? I wasn't sure. Or was she just doing that because she thought she had to, right? And who, who, who was sure about anything on the show? Yeah. But my guess is that she's not crazy. She just did what she thought she had to do. Which is impressive.

[01:37:43] Karen stole Madero says this gave me hope that misty might be the lone survivor of the yellow jackets. Last week I was worried it would be Shauna, but I'm more hopeful now. However, it looks like modern Shauna is going to really own her queen status. So who knows what she'll do next season? Yeah. That's really intriguing. Lisa's fair says, can you all help me figure something out?

[01:38:19] I don't think Caligula died. Did you guys? No. Well, no, but Misty, they made a point of showing Misty taking Caligula's name tag off Caligula's cage. And this may be in the feedback later, but somebody pointed out that that's just because Walter came for that. Oh, right. That's what I was thinking. Yeah. But people thought it meant Caligula would die. Oh, that would be terrible. I was a little confused.

[01:38:45] Also, the only thing I could think about the scene where they basically tossed Nat's teepee is that they wanted to make sure Nat didn't have anything on her. Yes. One of the other feedback we got this time said maybe they were just checking to see if she was stocking up supplies to try to escape that makes sense, but I'm not sure either. I mean, let her go. I don't understand this. I know. Yeah. Shawna wants to be in.

[01:39:14] She wanted to be in control of everyone. She couldn't have anyone leaving. They all had to stay and worship her. I guess. I don't know. She is the antler queen after all. Becky Anderson says, I like this episode a lot. The ending alone was worth watching. I'm listening to the podcast and I disagree. I do think Shawna is responsible for 90% of what's taken place in the current timeline. Ty was right about that.

[01:39:42] As for the DNA under Lottie's fingernails in the scene where she and Callie are together, she has a tight grasp on Callie's arm and they make a good point to show that. I believe when Callie jerks away, that's when Callie gets scratched. I'm so glad Jeff took Callie and ran. Shawna is unhinged. Her journal entry at the end proves it and she's toxic to anyone she is involved with. None of these people are truly redeemable, but Shawna is a special kind of evil.

[01:40:10] I hope before this series ends, she meets the same fate she has forced on so many people in her life. It gave me great satisfaction to see her alone at the end. But I don't really think she's sad because her family left. I think she's sad because it means she has lost power over them. She's selfish, period. I fear for Misty's safety with Walter lurking. He looks so unhappy with her sitting in there with Ty. I want Misty to be the last one standing.

[01:40:40] She's crazy as fuck, but she's my favorite. LOL. Lastly, excellent song choice for Nat's climb to the top of the mountain and I smiled like a kid in a candy store when she got a response. Looking forward to the rescue drama next season. Great coverage as always. Again, people want Misty to be the last one standing and for Shawna to meet her comeuppance.

[01:41:04] It's it's really cool to hear all the different thoughts and opinions, but that's one like connecting thread I'm feeling from all of this. Yeah, I just I just I disagree that Shawna is responsible for 90 percent. Love you, Becky. But like Shawna didn't trash the black box. You know. Shawna, you know, Crystal went because of Misty.

[01:41:34] I feel like Shawna wasn't responsible for a lot of what happened. She didn't. Jeff was the one who did the blackmails. Ty says that Lottie killed Edwin. Right. Right. Right. Ty, Ty, Ty, um, hired Jessica to spy on all of them. Lottie had a full blown cult going like there's a lot of. She tried to. Yeah, she, she wanted to do another hunt and sacrifice one of them to the wilderness. Yeah.

[01:42:04] There's a lot of blame to go around fucked up. Yeah. A tie killer dog. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Forgotten about him. Oh, man. I mean, maybe people's argument is that somehow Sean is responsible for all that. But no, I mean, I think Lottie's is at least as responsible as Sean. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:42:31] Cindy Peterson, my good friend from many years now who I met because of podcasting says I loved it and cried at the end. No. She was crying tears of joy, I guess, because that was on the mountain and she I know Cindy loves Aerosmith. So I'm just kidding. I don't know. All right. Janine G says great finale. I hope we get a season four. I'm still baffled how Shauna survived the wilderness.

[01:42:59] I would have figured out a way to get rid of her in her sleep. She's a bully as a kid and now as an adult causing more death. I hope Misty is the lone survivor in the end. Another Misty. You know, I saw a YouTube video someone put together. I haven't watched it, but it popped up on my YouTube videos where someone put it together. And it's basically the same thing. Why Misty should be the last one standing. And I guess I'm going to have to watch it.

[01:43:29] Stacy Metcalf says, I love the episode as always, even though Shauna is a physical threat. And now the antler queen. I still think Lottie is responsible for much of the bloodshed directly and indirectly. She leads the way. I think it will be interesting to see what adult Shauna embraces after her journal entry slash monologue. Can't wait for season four. There's a dissenting view for you. At least among the listeners.

[01:43:58] It was really cool to see Shauna in her antler queen get up by the way being dressed like almost like they were a queen's attendance. That was just such a great sequence. He was a fucking queen. I think it was. Yeah. Yeah. As adult Shauna's reading in her journal entry. Alicia Stout says, first off, fantastic episode. Also, I was cheering when I got it right with pit girl and the heart necklace. What did she get right?

[01:44:25] I kept teetering between Mari or Hannah, but after rewatching the pit girl scene over and over, I figured it had to be Mari as the girl seemed younger. Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. I mean, I didn't think it was Hannah because the girl seemed younger. I also found it a little odd that when everybody looked into the pit, nobody stopped to say, hey, how did this pit with spikes get here? Agreed. Yeah. It made it appear.

[01:44:46] As far as we know, only, I mean, I think probably the answer to that is when they first made the pit, the writers, they thought that these people did put it there, but then the story changed. But who knows? As far as we know, only Lottie and Travis know about the pit. Shauna's journal entry was chilling. She says they all forgot what happened in the past, but did they really, or only her? I mean, um, Ty says she forgot to.

[01:45:16] And when she was eating Vans heart, she said something about let this help me remember. And then after that, that's when she felt the most antagonistic towards Shauna because she was remembering. So I think it was more than just Shauna. Uh, she goes on. She's truly terrifying. And for the first time, I now loathe her as a character and want to see her go down. I'm still holding out in my theory that they will all die as they were never meant to survive. We shall see. I feel like something is going to happen to Akilah next.

[01:45:45] Cause we don't see her in the adult timeline. Little nervous to see her future. And she could be, I mean, they could be saving her and we might meet adult Akilah. You never know. I was cheering and screaming when Nat was on top of that mountain using the sat foam. That was pretty exciting to see after that super satisfying betrayal. There's definitely more story to tell and I can't wait for next season already. So I hope they hurry up and sign the contract already. Bring on season four buzz, buzz, buzz. P.S.

[01:46:13] Most fucked up moment for me was Shauna knowing about the card switch and knowingly choosing Mari to die. Yeah. I agree. Yep. Courtney Sifleet says, I really wish we had more time with adult Natalie. Yeah. We were just talking about that. Yeah. Maria Granada says, I just finished watching the finale. It was really good. And I now believe there is nothing supernatural in the wilderness.

[01:46:40] It's all been created by Lottie's mental illness and being off her meds and Shauna's anger over Jackie's and her baby's deaths. Between Lottie and Shauna, they have kept the other girls confused and even prisoners. Of course, Misty also screwed up by breaking the black box, but it's mainly been those two responsible for all the craziness. Now Natalie was able to break away and find rescue. Hope we have another season. I look forward to listening to the podcast. Okay.

[01:47:09] Last one is from Mark McBurney. He says, I absolutely love the show. And for me, season three was every bit as good as one and two. The casting, the actors themselves, the storytelling in two different timelines, maybe soon to be a third. And the soundtrack are all tremendous. Yep. It's really good. I mean, it's always had its flaws, but.

[01:47:41] All right. That is our show. Yeah, this could be it. We really hope not. But even if it is, we will at least do one more episode, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. That's what we said we were going to do. If not more. Society of the Snow. Yeah. We're definitely doing. Society of the Snow. Yeah. We could do another like series wrap up or something at least. Yeah. We have to, I feel like. We got, we, yeah. Yeah.

[01:48:09] I feel somewhat responsible. Okay. With this show because I started watching it. It's your fault. Not Seanas. I started watching it, got hooked. And like many of the people that are writing in, I had nobody to talk about it with. So I basically started convincing every one of the Zedheads to watch the show. And now it's become a thing. So we need a season four. Yeah. We have to get a season four. Yeah.

[01:48:38] You were talking about it for a while and you were very persistent. I was. Like, all right, let's check it out. I'm like, oh yeah. This is fucking great. So much so that it was five episodes into the season and we decided, okay, we got a podcast on it now. We got to do it. We got to do it. Who cares? Yeah. Jumped on it. But just, you know, we don't know when we'll be back. Probably, you know, not too long from now, but in the meantime, we do have a lot of other shows that we're podcasting on that you could maybe go check out.

[01:49:08] One, you know, we've probably mentioned it a lot, but the three of us do the Handmaid's Tale podcast and that's right in the middle of the final season. Yes. So that's what the first one that comes to mind to recommend people. What else though? What, I mean, another one is the white Lotus, which, uh, is just another show in our, you know, group of shows that I feel like fits into all of this just because it's, it's an adult, more of an adult, let not as genre show, but just adults doing dark things or

[01:49:37] I don't know. It's great writing and that's a great show. And I do that with my wife and our friend, Randy. We, we host it. That's great. That's a great pod. You can't leave out the last of us, which just came back. It's so good this season, just two episodes in. It's been just amazing so far. Um, I know Greg and Veronica are wrapping up wheel of time and yeah, it seems like they've

[01:50:04] got, I haven't, I'm so behind on that show, but I saw a lot of activity in their, uh, chat, you know, a lot of listeners getting really engaged with that show. And, um, and or is just back. I think it just came back. So that is dropping. Oh yeah. Is it out now? It just today or yesterday. Yeah. Yeah. So that's how that's such a good show. And and or is like, they came out with all these, uh, star Wars series, but and or is the most adult it's complex.

[01:50:34] It's really good. And you have to kind of get through the first few episodes like three, and then you get hooked in. And so far season two has on Rotten Tomatoes and 98%. So it seems like maybe it's going to be just as good. Yeah. It's pretty great. Paik and I were lucky enough to podcast on skeleton crew and I messaged James and Jonathan and just said, happy to pass the torch back to you. Mm-hmm .

[01:51:02] So if you just go to podcast to go.com, if you're at all interested in any of this and click podcasts, you'll just see a list of all the shows that we cover there. Yeah. And we have a great Facebook group for podcast to go, where you can join in with other fans. A lot of times we'll post a feedback posts in there. So you can comment on, um, any of the shows that we're covering. I do it also for my movie podcast.

[01:51:29] It's not a TV show, but Paik and I do run Fear Lives and we cover a movie every week. And, um, yeah, all of us go in there and have discussions about different things. So it's kind of fun. I'm so glad you mentioned that because, uh, I think anyone who loves Yellow Jackets would like just about every movie that you cover because it's always dark horror and disaster. It is. It is. It's called Oregon Trail and the Oregon is O R G A N.

[01:52:00] Yep. I'm wondering if that's this year's cocaine bear. I wonder. I don't know. Because cocaine bear ended up being so much fun to talk about. So you never know with some of these movies. I feel like the cocaine bear kind of started this trend for wild and crazy movies. So. Yeah. All right. That's our show. Thanks for listening.

[01:52:28] Buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz, buzz.