The Testaments S1E9&10 Listener Feedback

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[00:01:12] Wie viel Feedback haben wir? Wie viele Pages haben wir das? 47? 33. 33. Und da sind auch. Oh mein Gott. Wow, ihr seid wirklich passionate über das Show. Es zeigt nicht nur die number of Feedback Messages, aber die Qualität von Eich Message, die ihr mit uns. Ja. Das Show wirklich sehr viel bedeutet. Das ist wirklich sehr, sehr, sehr, sehr, sehr.

[00:01:42] Das ist das. All right, soll ich in die Frage gehen? Das ist das. Das ist von Episode 8, Broken, von Alicia Stout, die sagt, After listening to the Feedback Episode, I kann nicht stoppunen über eine Sache, dass nicht viele sind zu bemerksam. Becca being married to Garth. Personally, I find it actually terrifying, und ich hoffe, ich bin nicht die einzige, die große, die hier. Wenn Garth gets caught working with Mayday, Bekka is tied to him completely. Ich habe nicht gedacht, das ist eine gute Frage.

[00:02:12] In Gilead, guilt by association ist praktisch law. Ich meine, also, wenn er in trouble, wenn sie nicht mit ihr mit dem, sie ist jetzt ein Teil von der Böden, sie ist jetzt ein Teil von der Böden, wie sie ihre Mutter war. Wenn etwas passiert, dann ist es so, wenn es passiert, die Frau ist screwed. Sie geht auf, Wenn die Eise discover, was er ist, er ist nicht nur, er ist nicht nur, er ist, er ist, er ist, er ist, er ist, er ist, er ist, er ist, in eine horrific, senseless, wunderschöne Weise. Und Bekka,

[00:02:40] da ist no chance, sie wunderschön, sie wunderschön. Wir alle wissen, dass Wives in Gilead suffer für die sins von der Hübschens. Was macht es noch mehr unsettling, ist, dass Bekka nicht nicht fully understand die danger, sie ist in. Being married, zu jemanden, in einer in resistance, ist praktisch eine death sentence, waiting zu passieren. Even etwas, als ein, das Wunderschöne, oder being seen at the wrong place, at the wrong time, getting caught talking of resistance, could bring the entire thing crashing down on both of them.

[00:03:09] Gilead doesn't care whether she actively participated or not. They would make an example out of her anyway, because that's what Gilead does. It destroys entire families to maintain fear and control. Yeah, I mean, they want everything to be a certain way. So if there's anything that's not that way, then it seems like they just destroy it or shut shunt it out of the way or chew it up in some other way. She says, I'm honestly terrified for her storyline moving forward.

[00:03:36] There's now this ticking time bomb hanging over Bekka's head. This world does not reward love, loyalty or bravery without demanding a brutal price. I leave you now with the immortal words of Tyrion Lannister. Quote, if you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention. I think it has a happy ending, but not for everyone. Of course, one more thing. Has anyone ever discussed the, I mean, I'm talking about the whole show, but about Bekka and Garth, I think I wouldn't be surprised if neither one of them make it to the end.

[00:04:06] Uh, one more thing. Has anyone ever discussed the actual pearl in Daisy's ear? I'd love to know a little bit more backstory on her from when she entered Gilead to when she was introduced to Agnes, maybe next season. I hope we get to see how she got that pearl. And it reminds me a bit of the ear tag that June and the other handmaids had. Okay. That's it for now. I got to admit, I didn't even know she had a pearl in her ear. I didn't. I didn't notice. Okay. I noticed,

[00:04:33] but I didn't look or I didn't see closely enough. Now I need to go back and look and see if there are pearls on the other girls. I think that's what I thought. I thought they all have them. That's why they're called. I would presume. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of like the ear tags. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Karen says, hello team. I recently rewatched the trailer for the testaments on Hulu and noticed an interesting detail.

[00:05:01] One of the final shots in the attached screenshot, Daisy appears in a plum uniform walking alongside Agnes and Shunammite. As this moment plays, we hear Agnes's voiceover. It was time for us to change things. I was wondering, could this scene be hinting at all these characters uniting and potentially joining the resistance? I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. Best regards, Karen. Sort of. Yeah.

[00:05:28] That was the scene of them walking at the ends when Daisy's voiceover was saying there's nothing more dangerous than a teenage girl. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. P.S. I'm a listener from Australia, so I'm not sure if the trailer that we have, that we have watched in Australia is the same one that aired in the USA. I think that it is because I remember seeing that in it. So, huh.

[00:05:57] But they do change it up when they go do it for different countries. We also have a message from Sarah who says, blessed be the fruit. It's me again. I'm listening back to your Handmaid's Tale podcast for episode five of season five, fairy tale June. June and Luke are remembering a trip to the aquarium with Hannah. And they're also talking to a boy a bit older than Hannah who had been taken from his parents too.

[00:06:23] He says he barely remembers going bowling with his real parents like it was a dream. And you guys are commenting how Luke and June are certainly worrying about if Hannah will remember them and if her memories will be warped and manipulated by the people around her. This has me wondering about current Hannah's memories of Tabitha. You think she might actually be remembering June in some of her memories of Tabitha that would really tie things together and make me think there could be some sort of happy ending for

[00:06:52] Agnes and June after all. What do you think under his eye, Sarah? At this point after the finale, I think Hannah, I mean, well, yeah, Hannah, Agnes has stopped having any conscious memories of June or if she does. She does. They're really, really mixed up in the story that she's heard about her because, well, actually, you know what?

[00:07:17] When, um, Daisy said your mother is, uh, you know, June Osborne or whatever, she goes the terrorist. So I think that reaction was more like, oh, you're saying my mom was this person that we all hate. So I guess that doesn't necessarily, uh, suggest that Hannah was having some positive memories of her mom and just not realizing that it was June Osborne. You know what I mean?

[00:07:43] I think the story of her being lost in the woods is we're supposed to think that that could be tied into her real memories. That's how I took it. Also, she goes to the beach and she has that little bag of treasures. And that's something that she did with June, not the bag of treasures by going to the beach.

[00:08:07] And so I just, I mean, we're talking about a young girl and what she remembers and things could be a bit messy because let's remember this poor girl was traumatized and put in a, like a glass square room while her mother tried to talk to her and she was terrified. Like there's just so much that she's been through.

[00:08:32] I'm kind of realizing that we still don't really know what story she's been told about her mother. We know that they've all been told the story about June Osborne and that's what she was reacting to when Daisy told her that was her mother, but we still don't really know how much Hannah remembers about her own, her mother, which is June. But you know, she hadn't made that connection that they were one in the same before.

[00:08:58] Um, but I, I still think that they've told her bad things about, I mean, that did come out a little bit too. Like they kept saying things to her, like, Oh, you're, you know, I forget what, you know, you come from that. Then of course it's going to come out and you, you come from a center or something like that. So, um, my guess would be that she still does have some fuzzy memories, but that they've been heavily colored by the stories that she's been told about her mother.

[00:09:27] But now I think she's doubting everything. So she might try to revisit some of that and recontextualize it. If that makes any sense. Yeah. All right, Maggie, these, the next ones are going to be about episode nine, Marat Saad. Marat Sade. Sade. I think it's Sade. Sade. It's the, it's sad because it's the Marquis de Saad.

[00:09:53] Maggie Rapucci says, I keep reading comments online about how the eyes can't possibly be eyes. The consensus seems to be there, possibly a brigade of ants coming to either help or hurt Becca or some type of Mayday group. I highly doubt Becca is on Mayday's radar, but I guess it's possible the ants were called for this by Gilead or aunt Lydia is intercepting Becca to help her. I don't know, but I do want to point out that their outfits being different may not mean anything.

[00:10:22] I think things were always more intense in the DC area with the high commanders. Remember how their handmaids mouths were pinned shut. That's great. Great. Call back. Just a random thought, but I did think when Agnes was walking Becca down the front stairs that June would have been hustling her down the back stairs and out the door. I thought this episode title was clever. Next week's is frightening. Yep. Yeah.

[00:10:51] We just thought maybe they're a branch of the eyes that reports to the ants or just handles things with women, but we don't know for sure. Well, and we don't, we don't know who they are. And so they could be anyone that's in a house spying on anyone. I mean, really? Okay. Tracy Walker says this may be wishful thinking, but the eyes silhouettes and movements look very feminine.

[00:11:17] I really hope that it's a secret society of women there to get Becca before the men do. I think it is a secret society of women there to get Becca before the, before the men do. I think you're right, but not in a nice way, but maybe in a better way than it could have been. Yeah. Actually. Yeah. Karen still Madero says I'm wondering about the blowback on Vidala and Lydia. Yeah. Usually held accountable for this type of stuff.

[00:11:48] Yep. Yep. There's still could be some next season. I bet. Well, cause I remember commander Judd said. Wiping my hand, washing my hands. Yeah. Yeah. Basically. There's no we anymore. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. It says the argument against the group that took Becca being anything other than the eyes is that Garth didn't have the juice to pull off a rescue.

[00:12:15] I would argue that Garth didn't personally need the juice. He called his handler. If the handler didn't have the juice, they went up the line to their handler. I picture a very creepy telephone tree. What if Lydia is his handler? He likely has no idea who it is. Could be. Yeah. He's got to know who his handler is, right? Cause you're in contact with your handler. It might not be in personal contact. It depends.

[00:12:42] I remember reading a really interesting book about how Israel would, would frequently pretend like they were American spies or British spies to get Arab nationalities to spy on them. They were much more likely to spy for the U S or, um, England rather than the Mossad.

[00:13:08] And then when they found out it was too late cause they were already deep into it. Yeah. Real, really interesting book. I read about the beginnings of the Mossad. It's messed up. Annabelle says I'm a little confused and also somehow disappointed with the last episode. Number nine. I didn't know we did bury your gaze still in 2026 and turn a lesbian into a mentally disturbed person. Don't get me wrong.

[00:13:35] The performance are stellar, but my brain is not completely at ease with what I just watched. Well, she made it out and she's now living with Garth. I would argue that the only reason she's mentally disturbed is because of the way she's being treated in Gilead as far as we know. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think her reaction is what they've built in her. Mm hmm.

[00:14:02] I mean, honestly, I think there's a reaction to this, to Becca story to be like, Oh look, another gay person being treated badly. That should be a knock on this show. And in my opinion, this is different because it's supposed to be there to point out that, look, gay people get treated badly in unjust societies and that's bad. You know, this is the thing that we don't want to see happen in, in, in the real world.

[00:14:31] So it's sort of more to raise awareness than to like use it as fodder or something like that. That's the way I see it anyway. Yeah. Dray Minoni says, Wow, what an intense episode. Becca, the actress who plays her is a phenomenal face actress. They do that on the show, right? The emotions and intensity coming from her eyes were scary at times. As soon as I saw her with those shears, I wondered if this was a dream sequence we would do a wake up from, but no, this was real.

[00:14:59] And I just kept wondering what the consequences would be. Poor Becca, really poor Gilead women, impossible circumstances and no way out. This episode left me feeling so heavy and uncertain. I wanted to see the next one right away. But if I've learned anything from watching shows like these, it's that the finale isn't going to leave me feeling happy, but I'll be here waiting for the last one to drop. I felt very similarly. All right.

[00:15:29] To Fane Thibault. I know you talked about Marquis de Sade during the last podcast, but did you mention Murat? Stabbed in his bath during the French Revolution. Famous story and painting. Not with a secoteur, though Charlotte Corday who killed Murat was executed a few days later. I don't know the story. I know the painting, but I don't know the story behind it. I think one of the other listeners might go into it a little bit more. Okay.

[00:15:59] So hopefully we'll get to that. We'll learn from them. Yes. So we have a call from Bethany. Hi there. My name is Bethany and I was just listening to your big extravaganza of feedback episode after I watched the ninth episode of the Testaments last night.

[00:16:25] And I had a big epiphany or at least what I think is a big epiphany. I think that Becca is still a potentially fruitful woman. They would not just kill her because she is considered so valuable.

[00:16:46] So what's something else that she could do that would dethrone her after killing her father? I think that she'll be made into a handmaid and that the conversation around the Mackenzie's getting a handmaid, that the handmaid will now be Becca. The Mackenzie's are the ones that turned Becca in.

[00:17:16] They're high ranking. They are in need of a handmaid. And it feels like the kind of thing that Gilead would do for their divine justice. I'm really struck by that. I think that's a pretty big possibility.

[00:17:39] Subsequently, I wanted to mention one of the things that I like to pay attention to when I have watched the handmaid's tale and the testaments is the color of the rooms and or the tapestries in the room. It's come up so much in the handmaid's tale.

[00:18:01] And it really gives me a good look into what the producers and directors want the audience to feel in that moment. And one of the things that came up so early on in the testaments was that Penny was talking about redecorating her house.

[00:18:24] And she was excited to have like the freedom to paint things pink. Well, what does pink mean in Gilead? It's innocence. It's these really, really young girls that need a lot of protection and guidance and they have no, you know, personality of their own because they're so small.

[00:18:50] And to me, I was like, oh, her painting her house pink is that she is naive to what the world is at large. One of my favorite things from the handmaid's tale and feel free to cut this out if you don't want me to blabble more was when Serena Joy was hiding June in her house in New Bethlehem.

[00:19:18] And every wall in New Bethlehem is beige and, you know, light colors kind of pastel-y like this is a new place full of new possibilities. And it's like reborn and purity and baptism and all these things that are kind of those lighter colors.

[00:19:38] Except when June is in her house and Serena Joy needs to, like, hide her. She draws the curtains. What color are the curtains? They're that deep teal that the white is aware. And I was just like, oh my goodness. Like, it's still the same Gilead. Like, you know, we just closed the curtains and we're back.

[00:20:08] Nothing has changed. It's still the dark walls. It's still the system that we know. That was my favorite tidbit. But every single time I'm looking at a new room, I'm trying to find, like, what colors are present and what does this indicate since colors are so inherently important in this universe. Anyway, just wanted to give those two thoughts.

[00:20:33] Looking forward to listening to the rest of the big feedback podcast and then going on to the podcast about the ninth episode. Thanks, Bethany. It's great. Love that examination of colors in shows. Yeah. We've always, I think, focused on the colors that everyone is wearing and then less about the environment itself, like the wallpaper or the paint and the curtains and everything.

[00:21:02] So it was very cool to hear that perspective. Yeah. I mean, I always think about how there's a limited palette of colors in Gilead, which just very much reflects the limited choice and limited possibilities there. And then when they go to Canada, like, especially when I'll never forget when June went to the grocery store and it was just overwhelming, overwhelming amount of choice and color. And she broke down around it. Okay.

[00:21:32] Okay. Tonya. Tonya Bennett says the eyes quote, mostly, if not all look to be women. I have some hope for Becca. Yeah. Yeah. Barbara Gonzalez dances says, holy moly. What just happened? I keep remembering Agnes talking about when everything started in her voiceovers. It's definitely begun listening to the pod and you hit the nail on the head with the violence begets violence point.

[00:21:58] At first I was shocked at what Becca did, but then after some thought, I too could see where this came from. I'm Lydia said something about the power of a woman. And I can't help but ask if Gilead realized that they were raising a generation of assassins. If the eyes were smart, they'd be recruiting Becca. Agnes keeps demonstrating she is a product of her environment.

[00:22:22] The more I see her move in this world, the more I start seeing the cracks through her trauma will reveal itself. On the Gilead given names being the brand names of feminine products. Is anyone else singing the Tampax Pearl Girl song? Women of a certain age will know. I didn't think about that. Me either. What is it? It's just a secret. Brand. Yeah, it's a secret. You wouldn't understand Jason. Nope.

[00:22:54] Okay. All right. Neen B says, So much going on in this episode. I love how reckless Daisy is by pretending her being is assaulted by Dr. Grove. I am not sure why she had to tell Garth that she faked it. She should have just kept quiet about that. Becca is so in love with Agnes. When she found out that her dad treated Agnes like that, her heart broke and it broke again differently when she was picked up by the ants.

[00:23:23] This episode reminded me very much of The Handmaid's Tale. Very sad that we are so far into the season. I want more now. We've been saying that. Yeah. We're ready for season two. Yeah. Thinking about why she told Garth the truth. I mean, she's not very. She's not like June where she can just, I don't know.

[00:23:52] She's she like she could barely cover her horror when the guy got his hand cut off and she keeps blurting out cuss words accidentally. You know, she's just not quite as sly like that. And in some ways that's really lovable. Like, yeah, she could have played it off and lied to Garth, but she's too upright of a person for that. She just he's her friends. And he so she told him the truth. I kind of like that, even though it probably would have been smarter. But it's it's good.

[00:24:22] It's a good thing to admire in her character that she's just up front now. She did just fake being assaulted by this dentist. So that that was a lie. But that was for a really good cause. I think she was really confident in her rightness and that it was the right thing to do. So she didn't expect backlash from Garth. I'm not sure she would have lied anyway. I mean, yeah, she's like, fuck you, man. Yeah, she's very confident in that.

[00:24:51] She's going to act. Yeah. Mark Prince Jr. says literally had my hand over my mouth for several minutes, not the episode to watch before bedtime. Definitely shook and was up another hour at least outstanding performance by Matea Conforti was that's Becca. You know what? They were at nights with the walking dead that I could not go to bed after watching because my brain wouldn't shut up. I totally get it.

[00:25:22] That's when I put silly comedies on. Hmm. Hmm. That's when they have mental breakdowns. Uh, Lydia will have pity on Rebecca because she was molested, was also molested by her dad and will let her become an aunt. It'll look like Rebecca is gone, but she'll be there when Agnes arrives to become an aunt too. Okay.

[00:25:52] I mean, that's kind of what I have been saying, but then, um, I forget it was in our discussion. One of you guys got me thinking a little bit differently that. I mean, Lydia was able to go in there, but she didn't have any power. She couldn't even get in the cell and Weston, who's the head of the eyes seem to be able to get back out, even though it was only temporarily.

[00:26:15] So maybe they're not under the control of the ants, but they're just like a separate wing of the eyes that deals with the women or something. Yep. All right. Therese breeze says, just completed my second watch. Let's talk about S day. I'm sorry. Is she really who we are being led to think she is an aunt or someone else entirely different?

[00:26:38] I'm starting to believe she could be a may day implant or someone with a more significant role in the resistance movement from the perspective of the show's adaptation. That is I'm a book reader as well.

[00:26:50] S day's reaction to Daisy being harmed by Dr. Grove was somewhat slightly over the top, even for such a pious, fully indoctrinated aunt who at first glance always plays by the Gilead rule book and Daisy's voiceover as S day profusely apologizes for not protecting her enough. Daisy takes notice of how blue S day's eyes are as she drops to her knees, crying and practically begging for Daisy's forgiveness.

[00:27:17] This and S day videotaping the girls prior to the ball in episode five. I haven't stopped thinking about that scene. Why was she taping the girls and what happened with that footage? Finally, her revelation to Daisy that she was the original Pearl girl. I hope the season finale reveals more, but we may have to wait until season two. I have to say my wheels are really turning with this character storyline. Anyone else feel the same? Yeah, I've I've heard a lot of sentiment about S day.

[00:27:47] And you mentioning the videotape really like makes me think about that because at first I thought she was just videotaping for the commanders so they could look at the video, which is really gross. But but but now I you have me wondering about that, too. Uh, wait a minute. What? So she was taking video prior to the ball. I don't know. I just think they made a point of showing her. She said she was the first Pearl girl.

[00:28:16] Well, that could mean that she's a spy, too. But the fact that she's was so excited about chopping that dude's hand off to me, I think she's a real convert, a genuine. She's a believer. Yeah, believer. That's what I think. But who knows? Still a lot to find out on the show. I think it plays both ways. And I think we are meant to not know yet. Hmm. Yeah.

[00:28:44] Holly Wonderland says, I don't think the eyes at the end rise. I think they're ants. They had the cattle prods, the ants carry. That's a good point. And they look like witches from American Horror Stories Covenant with the way they entered the garden. It was such a great effect. Yeah. We now have a call from Phoebe. Hi there. This is Phoebe from California. I am calling about the Testaments.

[00:29:14] I have absolutely loved your coverage. I've been listening to you since Alien Earth. Awesome. So really glad that you're doing this again for the Testaments. I have a few things that I wanted to share. First, I wanted to talk about Becca and her motivations. I was really interested that y'all were connecting the possibility that Becca had been abused by her dad. And that's what made her snap.

[00:29:43] But I'm not sure about that. I think that we all think that Becca was abused by her dad because of the book. But I think that Becca's reactions when she found out that Agnes had been hurt, I think it was dawning horror that her father had hurt her friend. And it's all been building up in Becca.

[00:30:04] She has wanted to do whatever she could to escape this future of hers that is coming, this marriage that she doesn't want because she's a gay person in Gilead. And then to find out that her father hurt her best friend, friends, I think that's what drove her to her breaking point. She's been wanting to do something desperate for quite some time and that's just put her over the edge. I didn't get any signs from her that she herself had been hurt.

[00:30:33] Her denial felt true to me. So that was just me. I think you're right. Yep. In hindsight. I'm really curious to know whether Agnes, who is engaged to the commander of the eyes, is she going to try and do something desperate to save her friend like asking her fiancee to intervene? Yes. I don't know how that would go for her. Also, the quote unquote eyes.

[00:31:03] I don't know if you all have seen the behind the scenes pictures of the people dressed up in those black robes. But in the show as they were streaming out, I thought those look like female bodies. And then if you look at the behind the scenes picture, most definitely some of those people dressed up, I perceive to be female bodies, the way that they're shaped.

[00:31:26] So I don't know if Becca got picked up by the eyes or if somehow Aunt Lydia worked her magic and those are some sort of like scary ants, like the ants eyes, something like that. I don't know. I can't wait to find out. And then the last thing I wanted to say, I've been thinking all along, is that I think we need to keep an eye. Haha. I think we need to keep watching Aunt Vidala. I don't think Aunt Vidala is 100% in. Me neither.

[00:31:55] I think that if you look at her face during the hand chopping off scene in the first episode, I don't think she was enjoying it. I think she was repulsed. I think there are these tiny little moments throughout that have been making me wonder what's to come. What are we going to find out about Aunt Vidala and where her true loyalties lie? Okay, that's it. Can't wait for the show in a couple days. We can't wait to hear what you have to say about it. Yep. Right on the money.

[00:32:25] Yeah. Anais M. Sensei says, hope that I got that right. Oh, nice. I will go and watch it now. But before, I just wanted to let you know how I appreciate that you were not afraid to draw parallels with today's politics. So many podcasts don't do it and I find it so annoying. Every piece of art or literature is political and Margaret Atwood's work even more than others. So keep up the good work and lovely discussions.

[00:32:54] Thank you for that sport. Is it weird that I kind of loved the moment when Daisy was plumbed up? I kind of did too. It felt like such a nice moment of women's celebration and sorority. Also, I wonder about Daisy's pearl earring. Is she meant to keep it even as a plum, a green, and even as a wife as a reminder that she came from the outside and to emphasize that she may have a lower status compared to the born and bred Gilead girls.

[00:33:24] Like a fancier version of the handmaid's tech. Does she still have it as a plum now? I think so. I think she does. Yeah. So maybe that's what it's about just to remind everyone. She's not exactly the same. It might be that or also she can serve as like an inspiration to the other pearl girls who are maybe hoping for that result. Yeah. I mean, they each had a different reason for becoming a pearl girl. So I can give them some hope.

[00:33:54] And finally, a few podcasts ago, you got a question about the purpose of the pearl program. I think the idea is to bring new blood in the marriage pool. Aunt Lydia said they checked all the bloodlines before confirming the matches. They must want to have all chances to bring forth healthy babies. And I assume the pearls that don't reach monarchy simply become missionaries and keep recruiting young girls.

[00:34:18] I wonder, though, if the missionary pearl program is only in Canada or if like the Mormon church, they are sent all over the globe. I don't know. I would imagine. Yeah. That. They would send them to other countries. It would depend on which countries they have good relations with. Yeah. Yeah. Mm hmm.

[00:34:41] Jamie from California says, I was literally flabbergasted to hear Rick say he doesn't regret his Trump vote because Trump is spending less than a Democrat would. For people who don't remember, this is one of the listeners who called in and talked about being a Trump voter. It's ridiculously easy to debunk this notion. Rick, please look at the actual historical record. Trump raised the national debt by seven point eight trillion in his first term.

[00:35:08] And in his second term, it's been raised again with his big, beautiful bill cuts to Medicaid and snap in favor of tax breaks for the rich and funding ice, which alone are projected to raise it another three point four billion. Additionally, doge reduced no spending. In fact, it cost us twenty one point seven billion in waste, according to a Senate report. Also, overall, government expenditures rose six percent in twenty twenty five.

[00:35:36] Lastly, the record shows that the deficit has increased more under GOP presidents than under Dems Democrats. So your claim that Democrats would spend more. So therefore you must vote Republican is demonstrably false. Rick so wants liberals to hear him. But how can we when he refuses to learn and accept facts and truth? This behavior is literally the embodiment of MAGA, which is why it's called a cult.

[00:36:04] I also reject the notion that voters only choose the candidate that they like the least. That may be true for Rick, but it isn't true for everyone. And I feel that it's a disingenuous way to justify voting for an immoral felon authoritarian who is protecting child traffickers and illegally enriching himself off the presidency. I'll say Rick didn't say that everyone votes for the candidate they like least. He just said a lot of people do.

[00:36:32] I mean, I'm not saying that's necessarily any better, but just want to make sure that we're dealing with what he actually said. It's one thing to vote because of a difference of opinion based upon policy. It's a whole other thing to justify voting for someone as sick and harmful as Trump because you don't like the policies of the other side. It's indefensible. At least do the world a favor and stay home on election day if that's how you feel. Podcasters keep up the good work.

[00:36:59] You're speaking the truth about our circumstances, relating it to the show in a way that connects. And I'm truly sorry that the truth of how this regime harms us is just bouncing right off some people. One thing I saw on the news recently was that, you know, we have Hantavirus and Ebola. Yeah, that's kind of made its way into the US. Very terrible diseases.

[00:37:23] And the CDC is not prepared for any of that because they've been gutted by Doge early in Trump's administration. And so now they're they're hunting for people to come on board as like contractors and nobody wants to deal with them. There's so many horrific examples of why Trump is bad for the country. And thank you, Jamie, for writing in with a few more.

[00:37:51] The one about Medicaid and SNAP in particular, I find just detestable. I don't know if Rick would feel that way. He says he's a libertarian, so probably doesn't want to be spending for the public good. But I appreciate you writing this in. And in my view, I just like look at an overhead shot of the White House and how half of it is demolished. That's a good metaphor for what's happened to this country. It really is. It really is.

[00:38:17] I wish I could remember the meme I saw earlier that was basically about how they're building the structure for the UFC fight. And then there's like the demolished piece over here and what it actually looks like. If I find it, I'll share it. But it it was so true. Just yeah. Yeah. It's a disaster zone. And the failed concert series.

[00:38:45] I'm kind of getting some laughs over that. It's fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I saw the Onion posted an article today saying Bruce Springsteen was gonna was gonna offer his services. Right. Since Milli Vanilli dropped out. Yeah. Um, G Garcia says hi, Daphne, Wendy and Jason. I just found your podcast and love it. Thank you. I just have a couple of comments on the last episode.

[00:39:15] First, maybe you touched on this, but I can't help but think the title refers in part to the famous painting, the death of Marat, which depicts the slain revolutionary Marat in his bathtub having been killed by a young woman. And Marat was reportedly praised by the Marquis de Sade. But I imagine I'm not the first to suggest that connection. So there you go. Maybe, I mean, and maybe it wasn't even about the play because the play was about these real people.

[00:39:39] Um, G goes on, but I imagine, uh, also I wonder if Aunt Lydia is barring Aunt Vidala from her meetings with Commander Judd, not to protect Vidala, but out of fear for her own safety. Yeah. I think that's what it was that, well, that Lydia, that Vidala was going to try to make something of it. That is the more Aunt Vidala seizes power, the more likely she may be to seek revenge against Aunt Lydia for what she did at the stadium. I think that's exactly right.

[00:40:04] And I think it was so interesting the way they subverted that, or at least if you can take Vidala at face value, she was not about to do that. It was all just paranoia on Aunt Lydia's part, at least as far as we know so far. She goes on. Anyway, thanks again for the outstanding analysis. You've brought up a number of important details that I missed on my first watch of the episodes, which I appreciate. Right on. You've got a lot of money on my first watch of the show. I think that's all about it.

[00:40:34] I think that's it. It's a good thing. The check out with the best conversion. The legend of the check out of Shopify. It's a shopper on your website. It's a social media. And everywhere dazwischen. That's music for your Ohren. How you do it and do it, with Shopify, you can get to a real hip. Start your test today for just one euro per month. On Shopify.de slash recorder.

[00:40:57] Ava says, hey guys, I'm listening to your latest podcast after watching the incredible ninth episode of The Testaments. And I have some thoughts that I'm not sure you've considered. One, in response to Becca's murder of her father, these girls have never been taught how to deal with any emotions. Joy has been suppressed. Love has been controlled. The only outlet they have ever had has been rage and vengeance. So it makes sense that Becca would harness all of the feelings she does not know how to process into rage and vengeance.

[00:41:27] Two, one of those feelings that she has no idea how to process is love and attraction to Agnes. In addition, some intense jealousy, both at Garth and at Daisy. I think that jealousy has been her driving force this entire season. When you think about her confession to Daisy that night and the non-judgment Daisy showed, I think it would be very confusing to Becca.

[00:41:52] She might think Daisy is also attracted to Agnes and that's why she wasn't judged or condemned. Three, I think it was that jealousy funneled into rage vengeance that caused her to act against her father. I actually did not think she was touched by her dad. I think that they always had a special bond. You can see that in the way they danced together and the ease with which Becca held herself. The ease with which she offered her friends to her dad.

[00:42:21] When she asked her dad, is it true? Dr. Grove said, no, I never touched that girl. And I think she believed him. When she realized he was not lying, she saw the whole picture. Daisy had been the one to protect Agnes. I think that was the motivator for her actions. She even told Agnes, I'd do anything for you. I think everything she's done this season has been motivated and propelled by her love for Agnes.

[00:42:48] And that lack of being able to process jealousy and her own feelings turned her into a weapon. Four, finally, I do think we will see her again. Maybe as a handmaid. They're not going to let that fresh wound go to waste. Anyway, those are my thoughts. They may be all wrong, but I wanted to share. Thank you so much for all you do. I really love the podcast. Ava. Ava's a mayday spy, right? Yep.

[00:43:16] This is the message that made that just turned around my whole thinking on this. So thanks, Ava. I think you're totally right. All right. Marianne says the eyes coming for Becca. Isn't Agnes's creepy fiance, the head of the eyes. Something tells me he is controlling. P.S. It's been renewed. Praise be. Yes. Nicole. It was so good.

[00:43:45] I think Becca will be okay. I think this is setting up her trajectory from the book where she will end up on the aunt path. My guess is she will confess the eyes that her father was assaulting her as well. So they will not punish her for killing him. I think it's obvious that that was also hurting her given the rage she killed him with. Given the rage she killed him with. I do want to point out before I read the rest of this.

[00:44:10] When they gave the voice over about the places she stabbed him, his genitals were one of the places. I know. I had that as a note and I decided it was too dark. No, that. Yeah. No, I think that's notable. I would say. Yeah. Yeah. She will say she doesn't want to marry Gareth and they will use the scandal as the reason for breaking the engagement. I'm sad.

[00:44:38] There are only 10 episodes in the season because if they follow handmaids, it takes forever between seasons. Two to three years is ridiculous. Maybe with the young cast, they will speed it up and knock on wood. Our dear and doubt is 70 years old. Let's get on with it. So she can retire. If the pit can do this on a regularly, on a regular yearly schedule with 15 episodes a season, this show can. Yeah.

[00:45:03] Uh, I think the handmaid's tale started out yearly for the first few seasons and then there was a long gap maybe because of COVID. I could be making that whole thing up, but it seems like it was something like that. No, I think that was part of it. I think COVID did affect the last two seasons. And we had the writer's spray. Yeah. Yeah. But I think it was yearly for like three seasons or something, three or four. I don't know. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. I mean, it could be worse. It could be like euphoria where you waited years and years and years.

[00:45:33] And that's been a wild ride for, from what I've heard. Nicole Covello Edwards says, favorite quote from shoe sketch us. It will last longer. Typical middle or high school Gilead version of the take a picture. It will last longer. Retort. Yeah. But they don't, they don't have cameras. So. Right. That's awesome. Susan for Joe says, thanks for giving us all a place to talk about this show after the episodes.

[00:46:02] It really helps to unpack it and not everyone wants to delve into the show so deeply. So thanks for the community that all of you have created. Thank you. We love doing it. I also wanted to say, I think it's so important how you tie things. So. Uh, tie things to real world events happening in the world today for the people who get upset about it. I would refer them back to anything shared by Margaret and hope that they could realize that the handmaid's tale and the testaments were always written as a political statement. Absolutely.

[00:46:31] The fact that you've given an opportunity for those who have a different perspective politically to still share the thought speaks volumes about all of you. Keep up the great work. Thank you for saying that. The episode was really amazing. I'm loving what they're doing with the show. And the arc is so interesting to watch compared with the book. I am a book lover and purist, but I've separated the two in my mind. And it's just so interesting to see the direction they have taken this. And I marvel at the creative mind behind it. I know some are finding the pace slow, but we had six seasons of handmaids in this world

[00:47:01] needs its world building time as well. In this case, if they covered the whole book in one season, they'd have nowhere left to go. Here's hoping that Becca will be spared an awful punishment and given some grace due to her obvious distress. Not that Gilead would recognize mental health concerns. Also just for a little levity. I loved how the show gave us a Gilead GRWM get ready with me moment. When we saw Daisy's plumb up. I like that too.

[00:47:29] Weeping though about the super jarring moment when Judd mirrors real, real world example of men, not worrying about what happened to the women, but losing a good dentist. One more thing. One more thing. Re Garth being compared to Nick. Nick was more able to move in the shadows because he was an eye. June is warned that there is an eye in the Waterford's house, but I think Garth is just a guardian. That's a really good point.

[00:47:56] Marianne says, Daisy brushing her teeth until she spit blood. June does that same thing in season one after the commander kisses her. Thank you all for making season one of the Testament so enjoyable. I liked your insight, your politics and getting to relive each episode. I can't wait for season two. What a crazy season finale. Where will it go? Hulda is not in the last pinky link at the end with the other three.

[00:48:23] I think she might be too much of a believer. Also, how is Garth not getting busted? He has a woman yelling at him constantly. See you next season. Hulda is probably getting married. Like, I think that's the difference. Those girls are all still there. Yeah. At the school. Yeah. Hulda was getting married.

[00:48:47] Cause she's, well, you'd hope that she'd be at least someone disillusioned by her experience with Dr. Grove. Um, but, uh, I could see someone going through that and still not end up just being totally rebel anti Gilead. Cause it's too scary or whatever. It might be too scary. Yeah. Might be too scary.

[00:49:13] Tina Maria gross crits says, I just finished listening to your feedback about episode nine. Wow. That did not play out the way I thought it would. My heart was breaking for Becca. Anything can happen on the finale. So sad. Only one episode left this season. I think you're right. They're saving up for brutal stuff in episode 10. Christy, a biology teacher counting down the days to summer break says, good morning. I was listening to your podcast this morning on the way to work.

[00:49:43] Really enjoyed your insight. What do you think about this idea? What if Daisy is assigned to marry Garth? That could be interesting because they're both in may day. They could talk freely and openly about spy stuff. They'd just be arguing all the time. They already dislike each other, which often means they're destined to fall in love. And it would add an interesting twist to the Daisy Agnes dynamic. I think we kind of speculated that might end up happening, but yeah, it happened. At least not yet.

[00:50:10] It's so interesting to read all of these ideas that could have been interesting if brought to life on TV. So it's cool. Uh, Tam from Perth says, hi guys. Urge overkill the song of our Gen X fiction lovers. Mia dancing is nothing to compare to Daisy being plumbed up slowly fitting in, but never will she blend after this episode.

[00:50:40] The music for the season is perfection. Mm hmm. Poor Becca's face breaking our hearts with us knowing the secrets of her disgusting father as Daisy is beckoned to the dentist and the hairs on my neck bristled in anticipation. God, he's gross. My nerves during this scene. Fuck. From then on, I may have blacked out a bit because all I could focus on was the wonky painting behind Aunt Lydia.

[00:51:07] This show is the extreme opposite of the hand. Maid's tale because these girls are kids. Just extreme hormones seeping out in moments of privacy while having to have posture and. Pure faith in what they are told. They are naturally bucking the formalities where they can. Knowing secrets and actions have drastic consequences. With this child abuse on top of it, I have great fear.

[00:51:34] Someone is going to jump off a roof or bridge in Janine's style. Or murder, which is the handmaids as adults grown women who have real life experience pre and post Gilead. It's very hard for me to really have good enough feedback with this show versus the handmaid's tale. My brain literally has to turn off for hours after for a bit because the young girl in me is screaming. It's very triggering.

[00:52:01] But back to how I felt strongly about my love for these strong girls enough to write today. The one line from Commander Judd. What a pity he was such a good dentist. Classic Gilead. Really what comes next between the sweet moment between Becca and Garth while they were left alone to Garth leading her with trust in his voice and face was probably the most honest part of this show. The whole show so far. I mean, I almost thought he was going to reach out his hand to her.

[00:52:31] He was so earnest in his eyes and voice. It was this fast paced collision course of truths and the secret best friend whispers of trust that led to the ultimate outburst of angst and anger. I don't think I can put into words how I felt during Becca's time except what a beautiful talented actor laying bare such a difficult part. I was so transfixed to the screen. I didn't realize I had tears falling.

[00:52:58] God, it was just so well done from Rose to Black Mobile. In relation to her being carried away by the scariest Gilead uniforms I think we've ever seen, I hoped she was going to be taken to a mental health facility and not her death. I thought the episode should have been called Justice and then looked up where Murat Saad came from. Basically, it's a play from 1963 and the broadest significance. I copied and pasted this so I didn't fuck it up.

[00:53:28] Beyond the ideological debate, the play uses the asylum setting to blur the lines between madness and sanity. It forces the audience to question if the political zealots of the French Revolution, who committed horrific acts of violence in the name of a perfect society, were the true mad men, while the insane inmates acted out a profound mirror of society's flaws. Enough said, Tam from Perth. P.S.

[00:53:55] Truly thanks for all you do, carrying us all through this season. Thank you. Yeah, so I think the episode sounds like it took inspiration from the play and the real life figures. And the painting, yeah. But she mentioned the music and I've loved the music. I don't think there has been one song where I thought it was misplaced or it always added to it. And, but two favorites that are in my playlist and I've just been hearing over and over again.

[00:54:23] Uh, Remy Bond's, uh, summer song, which was in the very first episode, first scene when, uh, when Agnes is going through the dollhouse and explaining her life. And then, um, Sharon Van Etten's far away was recent. I don't even remember which episode it was a recent one, but that I just love that song now. I'd never heard it before. Now it's so good. If you guys haven't heard it, I recommend checking it out. I feel like the music has been even better than Handmaid's Tale.

[00:54:53] Yeah. It's really been great because Handmaid's Tale was great, but it was like very sparse. It had some really powerful ones for sure, but it's more woven throughout this. And I feel like it fits a story about teenage girls to do that, you know? Yeah. Also, I think that the music in Handmaid's Tale got better towards the end of the series.

[00:55:14] And I think that they learned how to really use it as a, to create the, not just the atmosphere, but it almost, I've said this before, it becomes a character of its own. Mm-hmm. I also think towards the end, they wanted us to have different feelings than just dread. Yeah. So there's more room for different music to come in. All right.

[00:55:39] F from the Philippines says, so glad to have your podcast enrich my experience of the show. While Marat Saad, the episode's title points to the persecution of Dr. Grove, we could also reframe this as the story world's persecution of Becca through multiple betrayals in the episode. Her realization that she's the only one in her circle of longtime friends who didn't know about new girl Daisy's secret period.

[00:56:07] Her growing jealousy is triggered when Agnes chooses to accompany Daisy to the dentist. Learning of her father's accusation and seeing it as an attack by Daisy. Agnes's confrontation, which unloads layers of inconvenient truths. Her father is a monster. His perversions harmed Agnes and Becca did nothing to protect her beloved. Foreshadowed by Aunt Estée's apology.

[00:56:35] Even after taking justice into her own hands so Dr. Grove can't hurt Agnes anymore, she's betrayed again. Agnes's agreement to run away is an illusion since she broke Becca's trust and asked the Mackenzie's for help instead. Becca must have felt double-crossed, wanting to outdo Daisy's heroic sacrifice only to receive what looks like rejection instead of connection.

[00:57:02] Then, her Gilead-approved safe space, Fiance Garth, proves to be useless as Becca isn't taken to a doctor but terribly dragged away by the eyes. This is a form of social death. How many betrayals have we mentioned? Seven! Those are seven deep wounds to Becca's heart. They don't even compare to Becca's stabs at Dr. Grove, who clearly deserved more pain.

[00:57:27] Having read the book, I find the show's reinterpretation of her despair to be a satisfactory variation. The parallels of her being judged as someone who inflicted pain upon herself are clear. This episode also reminds me of British cultural theorist Raymond Williams' concept of a structure of feeling. The particular living result of all the elements in the general organization.

[00:57:53] Hence, our personal feelings are actively shaped by and are visceral reactions to systemic conditions. So we can't just say Becca's unstable and brought this upon herself. Her desperate actions are a direct response to Gilead's suffocating system of inequality. The dominant ideology promises safety to the pious. Becca's suppressed her own defiance to appear compliant.

[00:58:20] Yet, her reality is a failure of that promise. This isn't personal bad luck, but the friction point where the consciousness of the young girls collides with the monolithic physical and spiritual violence of the state. Unlike Aunt Estée's residual passive guilt, Becca's turn toward retribution and consequently her social death signals a changing emotional landscape within the girlhood. A lived, shared, unspoken despair.

[00:58:50] The structure of feeling operates at the very edge of semantic availability. Meaning, it's a culture actively felt and lived before it becomes a formally articulated ideology or movement. Now more than ever, Agnes edges closer to the threshold of resistance against the biggest traitor of all, Gilead. Will we see Agnes cross the threshold at the season finale?

[00:59:18] After all, that's June's blood running through her veins. Hopefully, Daisy's too. I'm likely delusional, but I'm not totally giving up the possibility. Maraming Salamat. Thanks for your podcast and don't let the bastards grind you down. Hope I said that right. That was great. You must be a writer. Like, that's amazing. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:59:45] That's kind of what we were saying before that you could write Becca off as mentally unstable. But I would definitely say it's, I think this is what you're getting at here. That it's just a, it's a natural reaction to living in a society where your natural reactions are considered bad. You know? I mean, what else are you going to do? Like, yeah, everything is working when everything is working against you.

[01:00:14] And you know that if you just said the truth about who you are and what you want, that you would be an outcast and you would be killed or worse. How else are you going to respond to that? Yep. Not well. Christina says, hi friends. I know a lot, a lot of people are comparing Gilead to modern society, but I have a different perspective. I graduated from the university of Alabama about 30 years after Margaret Atwood completed the handmaid's tale while serving as an honorary chair there.

[01:00:43] The school colors just also happened to be crimson and white. Did not know that. The aunt Lydia school reminds me of Doster hall where most of my classes were as a hospitality sales and food and beverage management major. I've attached a photo of the plaque that is still there today. I think it's more powerful to read it in bronze than typed in this email. Well, I don't see it. We didn't, we don't have it here. Um, I could blab on for days about the culture of the school at my time there, but there was definitely a class divide.

[01:01:13] Bama rush went viral on tick tock. There's doc Bama. Sorry. There's a talk. There's documentary on it. And it was nowhere near my experience as a first generation student working two jobs. Some girls even hired a consultant to get in the sorority. They wanted it's giving ant vibes. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on whether any of the atmosphere at would experience that Alabama found its way into Gilead. Thanks for the podcast and keeping my ears company while I'm at work. I'm a counselor at a cemetery.

[01:01:43] Things can get a little dead sometimes. Oh yeah. There is really interesting. Yeah. Because that is so opposite of Margaret Atwood when you think of Bama rush and all that. So yeah, that would be a great question to ask her how that shaped her ideas. So I'm not, I don't really understand what this is getting at. Can you explain it to me?

[01:02:12] So Bama rush, do you know what that is? Not really. It's just sororities in the South. It's about sororities in the South and it doesn't portray it as a good culture. It's, you know, what you look like is most important. Sure. The money you have is most important.

[01:02:33] I mean, some of these girls spend tens of thousands of dollars, maybe even more on outfits and hiring a consultant to get into the sorority they went. I mean, they're 18 years old. Some of them are 17. It's, it's pretty crazy. Um, so it's like a class thing. It's not just class. I mean, they're mostly white, blonde girls, you know? Yeah.

[01:03:02] Um, I mean, it, it does feel like, I mean, these girls that we're focused on mostly come from, uh, high status families, rich, and they're expected to act a certain way. And they're trained to move a certain way and to be proper and follow etiquette and all of that and talk how to talk to men. Yeah. And, and it's like one slip. Yeah.

[01:03:29] You know, you're in rock and you make a tick tock that's in bad taste or something and that's it. You're done. You're not getting into anything. Yeah. And it's, it's hard to imagine. And it's like the world is over. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like I, I, I pledged a sorority and joined a sorority in college and it, it was a very, um, much more of a, of a working class college. I don't know how else to say it.

[01:03:56] It was not a prestigious university that cost a lot of money to attend. And my experience was nothing like Bama rush. Yeah. Well, I, um, I don't know Bama rush, but I pledged fraternities in college when I was like a junior. And, um, I remember going to rush and it was so weird just going from house to house, trying to kiss up and each house had different personalities.

[01:04:24] There was like the surfer dude house and there was like the jock house and the, and, um, I, um, came away feeling kind of, I didn't like the vibe, you know? Um, I ended up getting into one of the fraternities, one of the fraternities. I remember I was talking to one of the guys and I saw another guy. He didn't, I don't think he saw, he knew I could see him, but he was looking at the guy going, uh, like shaking his head.

[01:04:48] No about me, you know, not, not our type. And then, um, anyway, I got into the fraternity and then halfway through the fraternity decided to take a vote to kick out guys that they thought weren't cool enough. And some of the guys that got ejected were friends of mine. And so I quit. I was like, this is fucked man. This is what it just wasn't for me, but anyway.

[01:05:12] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I saw some of that too. And I mean, I was in the eighties where hazing was alive and well, like not as much for the girls, but definitely for the boys. Definitely. Yeah. I was kind of looking forward to that part of it. You, you would not have. No, I mean, we did, we had some of it. Yeah. We, we, we went through all the. Yeah.

[01:05:40] You had to get, you had to go through some stuff before you were actually in. No, it's bad though. I know people get hurt or killed. Yeah. That's pretty dangerous. I would say some of the situations that I was not involved in, but I had heard secondhand. Yeah. It seems crazy to think people would put themselves through that.

[01:06:01] I think you're right. I think just, I don't know if it's in any way similar at all, but just my experience with Rush, I feel like it's got some similarity with what we've seen in the Testaments. Yeah. And it's hard to put Atwood in there. And of course, Margaret Atwood is older and it probably wasn't exactly like that, but that's where the kind of culture stemmed from is those very Southern colleges.

[01:06:29] But it's similar. I mean, that's just sort of a model of how things can be in society when you get older too. And in certain circles, if you need, if you want to be approved of and you have to be the right type of person to get what you want and everything. I mean, I still see it in corporate world. Like, you know, CEOs, kids don't get the same experience when job hunting as my kids. Right. You know, it's just the way it is. Yep.

[01:07:00] Michael S. McAinch says, hi guys. Just finished the Testaments. Episode nine. I was shocked by who killed Dr. Grove. I knew it would happen, but I didn't expect Becca would be the one who did it. I expected Aunt Lydia to do something or maybe Garth as he's engaged to Becca. I have two questions. One is Dr. Grove actually dead? I assume the answer is yes. We assume he is, but we didn't see it. Right. That's true.

[01:07:30] Right. I mean, he looked pretty dead in the bathroom. Yeah. He's like the Wicked Witch of the East. Yeah, he's dead. Yeah, he's dead. What do you think will happen to Becca? I'm hoping that Garth can get her out of the country. I really hope so because I'm trying to get my fiance to watch the Testaments. She won't right now because she watched all of The Handmaid's Tale and did not like it.

[01:07:56] I keep telling her the show is not as violent as the original show, but I'll be very disappointed if she dies or becomes a handmaid as there have been no handmaids in this show so far. We've talked about it. It's so bizarre for us. Yeah. I found the podcast last week and I'm caught up with all of the episodes so far for Testaments, so now I'm listening to the old episodes while I wait for the final two episodes of the season. Nice. Well, welcome.

[01:08:23] People are probably like, what are you talking about, Jason? We totally did see it. And I don't know why, but in my mind, I just kind of had a brain fart and thought that Dr. Grove was executed. But no. I mean, he was, but not in that way. He was executed by his daughter. The last scene we saw of him, he looked like he had stopped breathing and was dead. Yes. Yeah. All right. This was an anonymous poster. She says,

[01:08:50] Hi, everyone. Given this episode's very explicit in every meaning of the word allusions to the death of Marat, I wanted to comment on what felt like another historically inspired moment. Daisy being plumbed up, the ritual undressing of the daisy down to her undergarments and then dressing her back up in the style of a plum felt very much in the vein of Marie Antoinette at the time she crossed into France to be married.

[01:09:18] At the handover ritual of the Archduchess in 1770, Marie Antoinette was stripped of all of her Austrian clothing, even though her clothes had been made in France, according to French fashions, in front of French and Austrian courtiers, and then redressed in French court dress, symbolically redefining her as the Dauphine and a French princess.

[01:09:45] Given the emphasis on Daisy as a foreign import to Gilead, a point brought up by the ants in attributing Daisy's period to the benefit of living in Gilead and the overall pseudo aristocratic world of the plums, down to their arranged, almost dynastic marriages. I wouldn't be surprised if the writers were thinking of that particular historical parallel. Love the show and your pod, and I can't wait to see what comes next for both.

[01:10:14] Yes, I remember that scene from the Kirsten Dunst movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. She couldn't even take her dog. Yep. Like, she had a puppy and they wouldn't let her take the dog. I looked that up in real life and that was accurate, but she did get the dog back. Like, she kept pushing, pushing, pushing until they let her have the dog back. Yeah. Allison Van Tilborg says,

[01:10:39] After watching episode nine, I definitely think that Becca's dad did do something to her. I thought he didn't, but I don't believe she murdered her dad just because of Agnes. There had to have been more going on. Maybe she justified her own abuse by believing it was just her, but once she knew others were being hurt, it was a step too far. I mean, we've gone back and forth on it, and that was how, Wendy, you were thinking at first and then me later, but I think all three of us don't think that anymore.

[01:11:06] No, I think mostly from the actress's comments. Yeah, that was a big part of it. Yeah. Otherwise, I would think it's still kind of up in the air. There still is. I mean, we don't know for sure. Given the way that she murdered her father and the attack on the genitalia. Yeah. That makes it a little questionable. Janelle Turkdenard says,

[01:11:33] This episode saying to the art history theater nerd in me, I'm sure the death of Dr. Grove in the bathtub was meant to mirror the stabbing death of the Marquis de Sade. And it meant Marat. Grr. As depicted by Jacques-Louis David, it was an interesting coincidence that Jason brought up America Beauty on the podcast, since that movie also contains a memorable bathtub scene. Mm-hmm. Phyllis Tenney says,

[01:12:02] Becca did it because Agnes was hurt. She tells her that she would do anything for her. I don't think Becca's dad messed with Becca. And then Vandy says, Fleeting thought. We know that Daisy is a nickname. Rita points out that daisies can grow anywhere. What if the nickname Daisy is used for high-profile Gilead escaped female babies? By this label, anyone in Mayday will recognize who or what these girls are.

[01:12:30] The label is used as a secret code among Mayday to keep them protected in the underground. Just a thought, since I don't like that the current Daisy is not our beloved Nicole slash Holly. Oh, one thing about Nicole is, I think in one of the interviews, was it Bruce Miller or somebody said that we would see her feet? So that makes me think maybe that was Nicole at the end of the finale.

[01:13:00] But we saw, you know, that we saw out front. I have to go back and look at it because there were a lot of comments about that. Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm not sure. I don't think they showed a child, right? But they showed a child's things. They showed a child. They showed, they showed a child outside. Okay. I think somebody else was commenting, not on the children outside,

[01:13:23] but on the fact that when June walks out of her house to the right of the door frame is like children's things lying on the floor. And I think that that's what, because the children. Oh, so maybe there were shoes there. There were Holly shoes. Okay. Yeah. That could be it. Yeah. Yeah. That's what a few people said, but we'll, we'll hear more about that. Yep. Um,

[01:13:49] but as far as Daisy being the nickname that the pro girls give for high profile Gilead escaped babies, I, I, at this point, I don't, I don't think so. Um, and I'll, I think she said her real name was Marguerite, which listeners said was Spanish for Daisy or something like that. I think that's why that's her nickname. That's what I think. Chris says, hello. Oh, I thought keeps popping into my head about aunt Lydia.

[01:14:18] Could she be part of Mayday now? She knows who Agnes is. She places Daisy with her. She might know who Garth is. She could be behind all of Mayday's activities in the area. It would line up with her quote conversion at the end of the handmaid's tale. I'm not a hundred percent convinced, but it has popped into my head a few times this season. They're definitely holding things back about Lydia and what happened in the intervening years. And it seems her position would be perfect for a Mayday operative.

[01:14:46] I also like to believe her change of heart and rebuking of men, the men of Gilead is still who she is. Love your podcast. I mean, she seemed afraid to do anything and had to be pushed this episode in the finale. But I guess that doesn't mean that she's not a Mayday operative operating in the shadows. She could be operating in the shadows,

[01:15:14] but afraid to do something publicly and like risk revealing herself or something like that. Allison Bailey says, Bruce Miller is just trolling us at this point to do a lingering close up on Daisy's face. And then she makes a reckless decision that has consequences for other people, but not for her. And then tell me she is not June Osborne's daughter. Rude. I know. I like that. I think,

[01:15:40] I think we know that they do such a great job casting actresses for this show that are phenomenal when it comes to what they give just in their face. One thing I didn't mention last episode is, um, when Daisy met June after coming out of Gilead, I, I, I've sort of made a comment on this before though, but it,

[01:16:07] it seems like Daisy saw the handmaid's tale and was like, June's great. Oh, I'm so glad to see you because in reality, Daisy met June once and she also met some other people. She met the lady that ran the diner or whatever. And it doesn't seem to me they had enough of a history together where Daisy would just be like, Oh my God, I'm so good to see you. And, and say things like June, you need to, uh,

[01:16:36] trust other people and all these things that sounds like she knows June's character. Yeah. There were a couple of things that I was like, we just needed a little more development before, you know, that scene. She's saying things that speak to us as fans, but that I feel like as her character, I'm not sure she would have that perspective. Yeah. A little rushed almost that scene.

[01:17:02] And the scene where Daisy talks to Agnes about who she really is. I felt like those scenes were a little rushed. I, I question the fact that that scene where Daisy talks to her about who her mom was, was just on a rate on a staircase where anyone could overheat. I mean, it seemed like, uh, might want to be a little more careful about where you're having these conversations. Yeah.

[01:17:32] I know they're very reckless and Garth as well. All right. Chris duh says, Agnes told Becca to go with them because she trusted Garth. Then she heard Becca screams. I expect this to change Agnes's feelings for him. I'm not sure Garth really works for Mayday. Wait, I'm confused. Oh, to go with the, okay. To go with the, yeah. Yeah. Cause she thought they were taking her.

[01:18:00] I don't think Garth had a lot of options. Like, like we've talked about before he's, you know, he's kind of low on the totem pole. He wasn't even a commander at that point. Yeah. So I don't, I don't blame Garth, but I understand how betrayed Agnes could feel, but I think she still loves Garth. Yeah. I mean, you know, and then Becca feels betrayed as that one by, by, by Agnes and everybody.

[01:18:31] Yep. Yeah. But, but Agnes thought that she was going to go to the doctor. So that's why she told her father and then she saw who she thought was the eyes show up. Anyway, Christina Gonzalez says, holy shit, Becca. That right there says everything. Dawn says, Becca stabbed her fake dad in the heart and then got all giddy about it.

[01:19:01] My only regret is that I'm worried about her. I suspect though, that this is a subversion and those weird costumes were because she's going into aunt land. They all look like women and the salvaging was already planned. So there's an angle to make it. Okay. We've always seen the eyes portrayed as cops, spies, and soldiers. This felt like a ceremony. No, not that ceremony. I mean, in a general sense, this would also put her story back on track with the book. Also,

[01:19:30] I think you guys are doing an amazing job, not just watching the show, but understanding the text of it, both the show and the book and not letting it be forgotten that this story is a response to something real. Five star review for me. Please keep what doing what you're doing. I should mention, we've had some new five star reviews on Apple that are really complimentary to everything that we've been doing. We appreciate it. And thank you, Dawn.

[01:20:00] It's really nice to hear. Thank you. Lisa Orkin says, honestly, I don't think any of the commanders care how the dentist died. I just don't think it's a big deal for them. I think the aunts took her to take care of her. But I do think that's true. They don't care that he died. They only care about the perception that a woman killed him. And so she has to pay. Somebody has to pay for that. Somebody has to pay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Has to be a woman. Yeah. Yeah. Jennifer Zertucci.

[01:20:30] Guzman says, anybody else cheer when Becca finally used floral shears? Like June wanted to do to Serena loving this show and listening to your critique after don't let the orange bastard grind us down. Oh, wow. I forgot June wanted to do that. Yeah. Um, it's funny because fate, my Facebook reels go through these cycles of different things. Like for a while it was the devil wears Prada. Um,

[01:21:01] then it would change to something else like jaws of the mag. Now it's showing me handmaid's tail clips. So I go, that's what's cycling through right now. I'm not sure why. Uh, we are moving into episode 10 second tours. Um, Elle says, hi, I discovered your podcast looking for someone covering the testaments and have loved it so much that while I wait for new episodes to do that, drop,

[01:21:30] I've been going back and listening to your episodes covering the handmaid's tale. Oh, thank you. There is one thing that keeps coming up that has me confused though. There has been so much debate around whether or not Becca was abused by her father. I've rewatched episode nine. It seems pretty clear to me that she wasn't. She even shakes her head and says, no shocked when Agnes asked if she was abused. Despite this, you guys still have been going back and forth wondering if she has and has repressed it somehow.

[01:22:01] Research indicates that child sexual abuse offenders typically specialize, and there is generally very little crossover between intra-familia offenders who abuse their own children, and extra-familia offenders who abuse unrelated children. This is unfortunately an issue I have personal experience with, so I'm hypersensitive to this misconception that men who abuse children also abuse their own children. I'm not saying it never happens,

[01:22:30] but it's less common. Statistically, they usually fall into two camps. I'm just confused why it keeps coming up as a possibility when it seems to clearly have been put to rest. I could obviously be proven wrong with the finale about to air tomorrow, but from all the information we have thus far, I'm just not seeing that Becca has experienced abuse. Let me know what you think. You think you're right. Catherine says, I have a few theories. I wanted to run by you guys.

[01:23:00] I'll make this short. I'm convinced that Aunt Estee is Esther Keyes. We don't know what actually happens to Esther. Last we saw, she was in the hospital and going to be transferred to the high-risk area. Lydia's character arc is taking turns in that season, and she seems to start having sympathy for her. She would be the perfect candidate to be an aunt. She's feisty and very motivated to chop off limbs after being raped and constantly at the farm.

[01:23:29] Then by Putnam. She is young enough to build rapport with the young girls. I have my notes at home. I wish I had them here at work to give more examples. The low-braided bun. The second question is, Commander Maddox. He has been mentioned a few times in the series. Too many to be a one-time character. Well, I knew I heard the name. Maddox, before in the Handmaid's Tale series, it was Holly's last name. June's mother is Holly Maddox. Could there be a connection?

[01:23:59] Anyway, thank you for all the work you do to bring us this podcast each week. I'm a huge fan. If that's true with Maddox, I feel like that's probably not a coincidence. Wait, who's Maddox again? Maddox is the guy that wanted to marry Becca. Oh. He was very interested in Becca. He got her drunk. Yeah, he got her drunk. The old guy. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, I wonder if there's a connection there. Because,

[01:24:27] do we know about June's father? No, I think there's only mention of mom. I would think Holly wouldn't have his name anyway. She'd have her own name. No, that's true. That is true. I don't know. But she might have given her daughter his name. What about Esther? I don't think so. Yeah, I don't think so either. Just because she specifically said she was a Pearl girl. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah.

[01:24:54] And I doubt we'll see Esther because who's the actress that plays her? She's like a superstar now. Is that McKenna Grace? McKenna Grace. Yeah, Super busy. But, she also shows up doing some of these movies or shows that I would not expect her to have time to do and she's there. So, I just have a feeling that if they wanted her to come back to do something that she would do it. I think that she would. one off or something? Yeah. Yeah.

[01:25:24] That'd be cool. Natalie Elvin says, is June living freely in Canada now, do we think? I wonder whether Gilead is still attempting to take kits out on her. I tried to look at the shoes next to her door to see how many people she's living with. I hope it's Big Holly and Little Holly. I think I saw something stuck to the wall in her hallway that could have been a child's drawing. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if she's in Canada, but when we saw her at her home,

[01:25:53] it did remind me of, well, what happened to all the harassment that the refugees in Canada were having to go through? You know, is she, could she be in Boston? Yeah, I think she's probably in Boston, right? That makes sense because Canada, the last we heard, wasn't as interested in keeping her there. And we know Boston's free,

[01:26:23] so why wouldn't she be in Boston? But we do know that she hangs out in Toronto because she was at her mother, her parents' clothing store. So I'm not sure. Yeah, she could be in either one of those places, but I'm like you. I hope she's with her mom and her daughter. And Luke. She could be living under a different identity. That's what I was thinking. Yeah. Yeah. Katie Pettit says, I'm so glad we got the Hannah drawing and Agnes knowing who June is.

[01:26:51] I imagine Agnes has tons of questions for Aunt Lydia. First among them should be, why did you let them take me from my mother? She might not think it now, but Agnes will come to hate Lydia and everyone that kept June from her all these years, especially since she has awful Paula as her quote mother. Oh, there's, that is the truth. I really want her. Yeah. To come to know the whole truth of what happened to her. Yeah.

[01:27:21] Emily Belanger says, I'm still wondering why Weston was so nice to Agnes up until the moment he broke off the engagement. He's obviously not a kinder gentleman. We know that from his job and his history of abuse before Gilead. Yeah. Cause he seems like kind of chivalrous when she asked him for help, but they did make a point to tell us that he like had restraining orders against him pre Gilead and stuff like that. Domestic abuse.

[01:27:49] I think he was just trying to schmooze her until he decided he didn't want her anymore. Yeah. It's complex character, which is good. All right. I mean, not good in any, he's not a good guy. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying, I like it when it's not pure mustache twirling villains that he seems more like a human being, you know, who can be duplicitous sometimes. Tam from Perth says, Hey everyone, far and wide. Firstly, these 10 weeks flew by and now Wednesdays won't be something to look forward to.

[01:28:19] I love being enmeshed in this series. Despite the inner panic and hatred of the brainwashing of these young ladies, we really were taken into the colors and order of Gilead. I do feel it ended in the perfect way. So we got the momentum to flow into the next series with some season with some bows tied up and some ready to unravel. And I love how we were treated to this new girl gang. You better not fuck with the loyalty to Becca without saying much more than necessary showed how much more brave,

[01:28:48] curious and strong willed they have become. The unbreakable teenage rebellion has begun. As Daisy says, there's nothing more powerful than a teenage girl. I think I will be part of the club that was so happy to see June in all her glory, showing us every emotion she's feeling and getting to say a throwback line. They've said a few times this series too. Do you understand me? Oh, that's true. Yeah. She said that to Lydia and Fred, I think. I don't know. Might just be making that up. I know she said it.

[01:29:18] No, you're not. She said it to Lydia. Serena. Serena. Okay. That's who she said it to. I think I'll always hear that in Serena's voice forever. I hope there's some point made by you guys or someone writing in about Margaret Atwood having a cameo part. I read an article and think that's where I heard it. And that she was pretty stoked to be included. And maybe the sweet kiss Becca got before she was manhandled down the aisle.

[01:29:44] They made a real point of showing both aunt Vidala and Garth's hands gripping tightly, sending her into the world as her mother is executed. She's had quite a rough few days being a school kid, fiance, murderer, prisoner, orphan, then wife. Sorry to laugh. It's just kind of crazy. Such an impressive performance. It's been wonderful listening to everyone's views and having a whole bunch of parasocial therapists who contribute. So I didn't fully lose my mind each week. So thanks and much love. Thank you, Tam.

[01:30:13] Nice to hear from you as always. I wanted to mention too that you should look up Lucy Halliday's reaction to getting to meet Margaret Atwood because it was very sweet. Wow. She was so excited to have her like on the set. That's cool. Next up, we have a call from Jennifer Palumbo. Hello, friends. I was just calling to talk about a couple of things.

[01:30:40] One being Daisy and her identity. I suspected in the last episode that Aunt Estée, is it? Possibly could be her mother or somebody she's related to based on the way she reacted to Daisy. I think it was just a little bit more than just protecting a student. My other comment is about,

[01:31:07] I really loved spotting Margaret Atwood in the prison there briefly with Aunt Lydia. That was pretty cool. Anyway, I love the season and I of course love everything Podcastica does. So I thank you all. Bye. Thanks, Jennifer. Yeah. I love seeing Margaret Atwood too and love that she just really played it well. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:31:37] Honestly, I felt like she played it like the old school castle, like dungeon master who is letting people in. She just played it. Oh, was so, was such sophistication. Was great. Natalie Elvin says, I've just seen a video of the actor that plays Garth. He's British. I'd be interested to know what people from the US and Canada think of the accents of the British actors in the Handmaid's Tale and Testaments. Daisy, Judd,

[01:32:07] Luke, Nick, Fred, and Garth. I think they all sound great, but I'm not from North America, so I'm no expert. The actor that plays Daisy is Scottish and the others are English. I think they're doing a great job. Yeah. Let's see of those Daisy, Judd, Luke, Nick, Fred, and Garth. I had forgotten that everyone except for Daisy was not American. So they're fooling me and Daisy. I only knew she was Scottish because I saw her on the Jimmy Kimmel show.

[01:32:37] I was shocked. They're all great. I mean, I, I do, I do feel like, I mean, there are some Americans that do good British accents, but I feel like there's some monumental ones that have been terrible that get all the hype. right. Yeah. Now, I mean, I think now that I know that Lucy holiday is Scottish, I've heard a couple of things that sound a little, uh, like not exact,

[01:33:05] but I don't think I ever would have noticed if I didn't know that. Yeah. Audra, Annika James says, I was wondering the entire time if Agnes remembered who she was. She was old enough when we left her in the handmaid's tale to remember writing her name, Hannah, in secret. Remember, she was a new plum. So during this entire season, I was confused, but I guess she had repressed memories and Gilead must have done some things to her to affect her memory.

[01:33:35] I cheered out loud when Daisy told her. And then when Agnes pulled out the paper, that to me was the proof that she had repressed the memory, but it all came back. Gilead better watch the fuck out. They will not know what hit them. Yeah. Like I said, there's a difference between how much she remembers about her mother and whether she knew her mother was the infamous June Osborne. I think it was pretty clear she didn't make that connection at all,

[01:34:04] but we still don't really know how much of her real mother she knew. But yeah, the fact that she pulled out that drawing that said Hannah on it after Daisy said, I think, or she said your name was Hannah. I think, I think, you know, now that I'm thinking about this, I think that just made the connection. So she knew, she already knew that her name was Hannah and that, and that she, so she, I think she does have some memories of her mom, but just the fact that Daisy said,

[01:34:34] Oh, June Osborne said your name was Hannah. That was some evidence that, Oh, June is my mother. I think your name is Hannah. yeah, still she was saying I've met June Osborne. Yeah. But it brings like legitimacy to what Daisy said. June is her mother. And it hit home. Yeah. But it doesn't really shed light on how much she remembers before yet. Heidi Buckus says, I was truly shaken after watching the finale and I kept thinking about it all night.

[01:35:02] Becca looks so incredibly comatose during that wedding. It was heartbreaking to watch. She seems like she might be permanently affected emotionally now. Absolutely. I can hardly imagine her getting better and going back to her own self at this point. I know. I think, yeah, this, that's another thing that's sort of tragic about this series. Cause when we come in, you're hearing Remy Bond singing the summer song and you just know that, these girls are all about to have a rude awakening and now they're going through it and they're going to be changed forever,

[01:35:31] but they'll be stronger, you know, and they'll be more capable. And hopefully they'll be changing in some ways that are, that are better for them, but they're going to have to go through some rough times first. Anyways, she goes on, what are they going to do with her? Keep her locked up 24 seven. What, what Becca needs most of all is therapy and to get out of Gilead. I wonder if Garth will be able to facilitate her escape. He's just so focused on the big picture. I don't know if he would do that.

[01:36:02] I felt awful for her mother too. The whole thing made me wonder if Daisy blowing the whistle on Dr. Grove was truly the best idea considering all the rolling consequences in this day and age. We say always tell, but maybe that was not the right course of action in Gilead. I mean, if only Becca had just waited, she didn't know, but he would have just been executed. But then who knows what would have happened to Becca. Then hopefully Daisy would have still, I mean,

[01:36:31] Agnes would have still convinced Garth to marry her. Anyway, it goes on. I think that was that given the accusations, the ants could have simply always accompanied the girls into the dentist office as chaperones. That would have put a stop to it with no other consequences. That's interesting, but then not as dramatic, by the way, I'm so glad to hear you speaking freely about politics on the show. It's time that we all started speaking up about what's happening. I agree.

[01:36:58] Or we are all just as complicit as the rest of the public was in the handmaid's tale. So right. So right. Niv from the UK says, I feel like the testaments has been so well written, directed and acted. I've appreciated the format of the first three episodes dropping simultaneously to get us into the world from the girls viewpoint. I think an episode a week after that has been a good way to stimulate thought and discussion. And we wouldn't have built up, you know,

[01:37:27] the same way if all 10 episodes had dropped at once. I totally agree. I think a few people have said they felt the pace was slow and not much has happened until the end, but I feel like the pace has been just right. They've been world building appropriately and letting us get to know the new characters. And a huge amount has happened plot wise in one season. I'm absolutely obsessed and can't wait for the next season. The core cast is absolutely stellar. They emote so much with such nuance.

[01:37:56] They really are extremely talented. And I hope to see more from all of them in future seasons and go on to amazing careers. I could see them all doing it. Yes. Kai Marie Taylor says, my mind keeps going back to Agnes's opening voiceover. After it was all over, I found the coroner's report. Then she went into detail about Dr. Grove's injuries. But where did Agnes find the report? More importantly, how did she read it?

[01:38:26] I'm pretty sure it wasn't a picture book. If she can read a coroner's report, she's reading well above a grade school level. Considering she was just a little girl when she was taken, it makes me wonder if Commander McKenzie has been quietly allowing her to learn things forbidden to women in Gilead. In my opinion, the first season of the Testaments has moved pretty slowly. But this latest episode was a good one. I haven't read the book, so I went in with few expectations, but I thought the story would have developed a bit more by now.

[01:38:55] I did love seeing Margaret Atwood's cameo appearance, Blessed Be the Fruit Loops. I really want a t-shirt with that on it. I know. Yeah. Or a mug or something. Or a bowl. I will say, we came out of this season with a deep, deep love and respect for these girls. And maybe that's kind of the foundation season of giving us that. We got the world of the show. We know them.

[01:39:23] We got to fall in love with the characters. And it was all about the marriage season and then their awakening at the end. And so, and I was pretty transfixed by the whole thing. So yeah, it was a bit of a slow burn at times, but you know, it's just an opinion. But my opinion is it was perfectly done. But I understand if people don't feel that way. Of course. Yeah. She also mentioned,

[01:39:53] you know, when Agnes, how is she able to read? Has Mackenzie been letting her read? I just think that these voiceovers are far enough in the future that they've gotten out of Gilead, learned how to read, and hopefully Gilead's fallen. And we're going to see that. That's what I want. Okay. Michelle Stevenson says, Oh my, why has it ended? When is the next season? I'm totally invested. Girl power on every level, sending best wishes from the UK, loving the podcast.

[01:40:21] Can you imagine teenage girls running the countries in our world? I'm in. They would govern by TikTok, maybe. Kylie says, I have so many notes. I'll try to keep it quick. One, the actress who plays Agnes has the most incredible crying face ever. Top notch. It's heartbreaking and beautiful. Two, the actress who plays Becca has an incredible way of just turning her eyes vacant.

[01:40:48] There was a closeup scene on her face as she was walking down the aisle. You could see it happen. I think she's a fabulous actress. I haven't seen her in anything else, but I've really found myself mesmerized with her. I suffer from mental illness. And although I've never been in psychosis, I've had loved ones who have been. It's so incredibly difficult. She portrays it very well. Three, there was a scene in this episode that had me really perk up and pay attention.

[01:41:15] As Garth shut the door after laying down Becca, I grasped my heart as I thought of Lawrence and Eleanor. As he leaned against the door. I asked myself if the scene had happened just like this in the Handmaid's Tale, because it seems so familiar. Then I felt like the writers gave us a hug. I really wanted to share that moment with you guys. Thank you. It's driving me nuts trying to figure out who Daisy is. I have not read the book,

[01:41:42] but I'm familiar with it enough to know that it's a mystery to all the viewers. I go back and forth, but really think she must have been on Angel's flight. But did we meet her parents? We must have, right? That would be a big old bummer if it's just a random Gilead couple. Five. My take on out Lydia is she's still just surviving, just in a more genuine way. She'll never be trusted enough to be in Mayday. Six. Who do you think is running the Red Center?

[01:42:11] Someone new or someone from Handmaid's Tale? Seven. I hate this job guy's insertion into the Handmaid's Tale TV universe, like he's always been around. He just doesn't fit for me. The suspension of disbelief. Can't seem to suspend this one. He looks too much like Fred from a distance. Is this a hot take? Wait, wait. Number six. Who do you think is running the Red Center? Someone new or someone from Handmaid's Tale? That's interesting.

[01:42:38] I feel like if they decide not to, I feel like at some point they're going to have to address the Handmaids in this show, right? They can't just leave them invisible. And so maybe we will find out, but not until they're ready to show us. Yeah. Eight. Daisy certainly picked the most awful moment and place to tell Agnes about her mother. Agreed. Yeah. Two. Yeah. It's a shock Agnes didn't fall down the stairs.

[01:43:07] She certainly knows how to control her emotions. It's tragic that she's never been safe enough to express herself whatsoever, including expressing her feelings. I'm glad the writers didn't hear that idea. Yeah. Nine. I would have thought Becca's mom would have been sent to the colonies. I get for the sake of storytelling. This is the way to go, but especially since hubby there was already set to be executed. I think they would have sent her there.

[01:43:35] Have they made sentences even harsher since the Handmaid's Tale? Or maybe the colonies aren't as big of a thing now. I think that's all my notes. I don't want to ramble too much. Hope you have a great week. I want to speak about two points in Kylie's message. One, going back to looking at Lawrence and Eleanor

[01:44:03] and talking about Angel's Flight. I've read online, there are people who believe that Lawrence and Eleanor did have a child and that that child was Daisy. And she was sent out of Gilead. And that's why Eleanor lost her senses. That Lawrence had the child sent out of Gilead.

[01:44:33] I don't know that I believe that. I think I've heard that Daisy is, I've heard her attributed to everyone in Gilead. Everybody, right? Yeah. Yeah, I don't think they would do some kind of soap opera thing like that. You know? Like, this show isn't about crazy revelations of parentage. It's just not. No. It's just not. We may,

[01:44:59] I think we may learn who Daisy's parents are. And it may be someone that we don't know who they are, but we learned that they had a big impact in some things happening. Yeah. And I think that's okay. It could be. Yeah. Yeah. No, me too. I mean, like I said, you know, if you hear me say this show's not about crazy revelations of parentage. Well, what about when Agnes learned that June was her parent? Well, yeah, that's because we're watching a show about this girl that we've been concerned about since the beginning of the Handmaid's Tale.

[01:45:29] But I'm just saying for just withholding, oh, big secret. Somebody is somebody's daughter. And then we're going to spring it on the audience. I just don't think that this is that kind of a show. I could be wrong. But that's my sense that it's more about themes and injustice and things like that. And so I just think, yeah, I don't know if we're going to find out something interesting about where Daisy came. I mean, there,

[01:45:56] there is a mystery to her backstory still. So I don't know. We'll see, but it would surprise me if it was someone we know someone's secret daughter or something. She said, I would have thought Becca's mom would have been sent to the colonies because Grove was already sent to be executed. But I just think what Wendy's been saying has been right on. It's just like, you can't let people feel like a woman can get away with killing a man. So yeah,

[01:46:26] it builds too much of this. I mean, it can mobilize women to think they can get away with something and, and stop them down the dangerous path of overthrowing the men. And we can have that. We have a call from Jenny Ryan. Okay. So about that finale, it was fine. It was good,

[01:46:52] except that it was ruined for me by that scene where Daisy gets out of the hiding in the truck and she sees June. And then they've all told her you're at risk. Mayday has decided they have to pull Daisy out because she's threatening to have, you know, people are collateral damage. She doesn't care. She'll die. Other Mayday people will die. She'll ruin the whole thing to save Becca. And so Mayday is like, we got to get her out. She's a liability. She's going to ruin this for all of us. So she's standing on the dock and, and June's like,

[01:47:22] you're done, Daisy. You're done. You're too risky. We can't have it. You're not ready for this. We should have known better. And then Daisy makes some speech about how she has to save the teenage girls. And June needs to, well, you all saw the show. Why am I telling you? And then the thing that makes me so mad is June is like, okay, Hey, you little scamp gives her a hug and a smile. And I was like, you go, just go do your thing. Nobody says to Daisy, but please, if you're going back in here are the rules.

[01:47:51] You cannot be so reckless. You have to listen to your handler. Please do not get, you know, don't harm Mayday. Like they just send her back in there. Like, yeah, they were, I just, they, they were, I want to see a line that's like, but please stop being so reckless. Anyway, I'm just sort of pretending that she had that conversation with the man in the truck because otherwise I cannot accept this. Um, it was just a ridiculous, ridiculous thing to happen. Um,

[01:48:22] to go to all that trouble to pull her out. And then June's like, whatever. She made good points. Anyway, it was dumb. Okay. Goodbye. Well, it wasn't about her points. It was about that. She knew Hannah. That's why she sent her back in. Oh wait. Okay. There's collateral damage except not Hannah. So yeah, you go in and save those girls. But I agree even with that June still. Cause I, like I said on the podcast before when June went back to Mayday, they'd be like, so where's the, what'd you do with her? Oh, I sent her back in. Oh wait,

[01:48:51] what? I thought she was going to get Mayday people killed. Uh, yeah. Yeah, that's true. Well, did you at least, you know, give her some, some tips or instructions? No, no, I just sent her back without any, and now she's going to be even more emboldened to just act rashly. Oh, well. All right. Rachel Jeffrey says the Atwood cameo made me fan girl so hard.

[01:49:19] I'm really interested to see how Becca and Garth interact together. And what happens to Agnes now that her engagement is off. Will she join the ants? I'm kind of wondering if that's what will happen with shoe. I feel like someone will be called, but maybe just not who we would have expected that marriage murder side-by-side scene playing out seemingly at the same time was heartbreaking.

[01:50:11] I was so scared for Daisy when they put her in that barrel. And they played hunger of the pine by alt J that fit the ending so well and got me so hyped for season two already. Now we have to wait. Julie and DuPont Turpin said, I really enjoyed the episode. I thought they were going to blame Mayday for the murder of Becca's father as a way to promote more fear of Mayday because I can't believe Gilead would freely admit that a girl murdered a man. Well,

[01:50:38] they could take it as an opportunity to make an example of someone to try to prevent anyone else from getting any ideas. Uh, the quote solution with the mother broke my heart, but I was glad that Becca was spared other than the absolute trauma of the, of bearing the guilt. Of course, at this point, I think she's in the best and safest place. She can be with Garth, at least for now. Hopefully Garth doesn't get himself caught next season. Taking over the house is all kinds of messed up though.

[01:51:09] I love the call back to Anna slash Hannah's drawing and name. I'm also thinking that the memories of her and Tabitha at the beach might surface as being mixed memories of her in June and Luke at the beach. That's interesting. All in all, the episode was fulfilling enough not to be frustrated with the wait for next season and left us on a high note. I can't wait to see what the girls have in store for next season. And I really hope hold a Joan joins their posse. Kimberly Joseph says, love the season,

[01:51:38] love the finale. I was anxiously waiting for the next episode every week. The June sightings. I'm obsessed. The finale was so good. And the ending was my favorite. The fact that Becca's mom took the fall. Yes, that is absolutely something a mother would do. I love that. That West Weston dropped Agnes. Although I'm worried about what's next for her. Yep. Me too. Becky Anderson. Hi,

[01:52:08] Becky says incredible episode. I want to give a shout out to whoever it was that put Agnes wearing a wrap on her head when she sleeps. That's a nice touch because that is a common thing for people of color to do. Becca's mom. Wow. Wow. Well done to show the lengths a mom will go to for their kid. A nice mirror to all June has done for her kids. It's infuriating how men get away with so much in Gilead and the women always pay the higher price.

[01:52:37] Poor Becca. My heart broke when Garth locked the door on her. Don't know where they're going to take Becca's story as it's veered away from the book, but I hope she gets a happy ending. She reminds me so much of Janine digging how they are making Lydia and Vidala allies. The scene of Lydia reaching for her hand when praying with Becca and her mom was so powerful.

[01:53:01] Love how Daisy threw Aunt Lydia's words back at her about protecting her girls like a mother would and her note to June. I know she's not June's daughter in the TV adaptation, but man are they just alike. I also love Daisy's description of each of the girls when talking with June. Nice setup for season two with Agnes and Lydia agreeing to keep June's fight going. Hope Agnes's rejection from Weston sets her up to become an aunt.

[01:53:29] Incredible final shot of the tremendous trio going against the grain while holding pinkies. Never underestimate the power of a teenage girl. Burn this motherfucker down, girls. Praise be. I am so ready for the next season. That's great, Becky. Thank you. I agree wholeheartedly. Monica McGuire says, I thought I heard God being referred to as a she by one of the girls. That was Daisy. She said it to June. Yep. Okay.

[01:53:59] Neela Smith Gabler says, I have already watched it three times. It is written and acted so well. And finally, we see the Hannah note. I'm excited and scared for what season two will hold for us. I was not expecting to like the testaments. Was really pissed when Hannah wasn't saved at the end of The Handmaid's Tale. But these young actresses have acted their asses off and made all of this work. Yeah. I wonder if more people feel this way. Because I have a couple of friends that were very angry at the way The Handmaid's Tale ended.

[01:54:28] Yeah. Because they didn't want the testaments to be a thing. They wanted The Handmaid's Tale to end with Hannah and June together. That's what they wanted. I mean, I would say if I had to pick a position, I'm glad that they weren't reunited so that we could have this show. Yeah. And I felt at the time that if we didn't already know the show was coming, then I would have really not liked that ending.

[01:54:57] But given that we knew the show was coming, then it was okay. But I still, I feel like the longer they're apart, the more tragic it is because she's totally missing her daughter's childhood. Yeah. But it's not a, you know, it's a story about tragedy.

[01:55:14] I do think, though, that when they're reunited, because I believe they will be, I think that Hannah is going to have learned an awful lot about how she came to Gilead. All of these things that are going to help her with her reconnection with her mother. Because I think if she went back right now, I don't think she completely understands.

[01:55:39] I think that there's a lot that can be done to help her understand more so that we get that reuniting the way that it's emotionally impactful and it's what everyone wants. And so I just, I feel like there's more for her to learn before she reunites with her mom. Yep. Anae Sensei says, I hope this episode will prove everyone who was complaining that the show was too much.

[01:56:09] Focused on teens and had a 90210 vibe that they were wrong. Gilead will fall and it will be young women bringing it down from within. Only regret about the finale. I would have loved to hear Agnes say Hannah Banana when she found out about her mom or when she was looking at the drawing. I have always loved this nickname. Please tell me they will start shooting season two soon. I hope we hear June say Hannah Banana at some point. Yeah.

[01:56:40] The article that we read last week for the finale, they're in the writer's room, so they're working. Like it's, there's no filming yet, but it's in progress. Yeah. And they've done it before, so we know they can. Yep. Tara Degaro says, I've been waiting for the podcast. It's a full circle with the episodes. I enjoy your insight. Thank you.

[01:57:06] Amy Friedman Greenbaum says, the podcast episode was worth the wait. Thank you. Couple of thoughts. Maybe the reason we haven't seen The Handmaids is because we are seeing the story from Agnes's perspective. Obviously, also Daisy and Aunt Lydia. Also, Margaret Atwood was in The Handmaid's Tale. She was in the Red Center, I believe. That's who's running the Red Center. Margaret Atwood.

[01:57:31] Lastly, someone else pointed out online that when we see June in that house, there's a child's backpack and shoes, likely Nicole's slash Holly's. Mm-hmm. Yeah, we saw her in the very first episode of the series, and apparently she smacked June in the face. Mm-hmm. She was an aunt. Very similar to how she was in this episode. I mean, she plays these, I mean. Gruff. It's her story. Let her play whoever she wants. Yeah. That's how I feel.

[01:58:01] I'm sure she does. Yeah. We have a call from Alex. Alex. Hey, I was just listening to your finale breakdown, and thank you for being my companion in watching The Testaments. It's been really awesome to have this show. Thank you. And something just occurred to me while I was listening to you talk about why Weston would have broken off the engagement with Agnes.

[01:58:27] At first, when I was watching the show, I thought it was exactly how you all put it, which is, you know, she's basically got a scarlet letter, and he wants this pure virginal wife. But then when I was just thinking about it, I also realized, you know, he has this dark personal history of domestic violence, right, or some other form of violence against women.

[01:58:53] And people like that rely on the secrecy and, you know, shame of the people that they, of their victims. And if she's someone who's willing to speak out about being hurt or harmed, then she's not really the meek subservient. Her message got cut off.

[01:59:12] I think that could be right, but I think that reasoning at least slightly contradicts when Agnes brought up Weston's ex-wife when he was first visiting her, and it seemed like he was offended and he got up and left in a huff. But then later Paula said, it seems like Commander Weston likes a challenge. He still wants you. Men like that enjoy a stubborn spirit. It's no fun breaking in a horse that's already docile. I went back and looked it up.

[01:59:39] And, I mean, that's just her reading of what happened, but he did still keep the engagement going even after Agnes showed some rebellious spirit. Maybe that's not the same thing as this girl will publicly say things, but it's still in the same vein, I guess. So I don't know. All right. Amber says, well, we made it to the end of season one of The Testaments. What a journey that was.

[02:00:06] This show was absolutely nothing like I expected. I won't sugarcoat it. I spent the first half being very disappointed in the artistic liberties taken by the showrunners. Don't worry. I'm not going to spend this entire write-up complaining. As some of the podcasters and listeners know, I was a huge book fan. Huge. I've mentioned in the past that I knew changes had to be made to make the story come to life out of the novel. But I truly anticipated a more faithful adaptation.

[02:00:37] My early disappointment nearly ruined the entire show for me. I was able to push through and make it to the end. And overall, I have a very mixed review. As I have mentioned in the past, I had issues with changing the character roles entirely. But keeping their names the same in the book, the changes to certain events and situations like Becca and her entire story really didn't sit well with me. But don't misunderstand my feelings for Becca. Both book, Becca and show Becca were incredible characters. I did love show Becca.

[02:01:05] Her feelings, struggles and actions did fit really well into the Gilead world. Both Becca's had a similar too good for this world and delicate like a flower, while also being delicate like a bomb personality type. Someone who is so sensitive, so hurt and so strong all at the same time. I am just a bit sad with the changes made thus far to her storyline. When reading the book and watching the show, I felt that we must protect Becca at all costs. Sort of compulsion.

[02:01:35] Probably because I am a mother and also possibly because of my history of trauma at the hands of people who are supposed to keep me safe. Show-wise, they kept her character just as tragic and depressing. I'm not sure where they are going with the marriage and her future. The actor played the role so well. When she went after Grove, I screamed at my computer by his hand. I swear, episode 9 should have been titled By His Hand.

[02:02:00] I hoped for a whole two minutes that Garth was going to be the partner she deserves, but then he locked her in her room. Ah, what's next for them? I don't even have any guesses. Oh, question. Was she drugged for the wedding? She seemed like they gave her something to calm her down and it made her so out of it. Yeah, someone gave her something, right? Yes, Estee did. Estee gave her an injection. Yeah.

[02:02:24] I know, given the circumstances, she would have been in a bit of a state of shock, but it did seem more than just nerves and a trauma response. Agnes was fantastic. She was probably the most book-accurate character. Her internal monologue was absolutely bang on. She's wiser than she looks. She tries to be a good godly daughter and a loyal friend.

[02:02:48] My only complaint is the Garth side of things, but it makes sense that a girl who's given so little affection and love from those around her. Daisy is amazing, but again, these changes are hard for me to swallow. I find it interesting that in some ways they kept her character the same, but in other ways they did really change so much. They're really trying to make her just like a young June. Shunammite! She's so awesome. They took her book character and just really expanded on it.

[02:03:18] She's such a feisty character and I can't wait to see what they do with her. A wedding, an execution, and a promotion all in one. The final episode was such a trip. I have a bit of a hard time believing that the girls would be able to sneak out and run from house to house to Canada or wherever Daisy met June without getting caught. I guess this is a time for suspension of disbelief.

[02:03:42] Overall, despite being so far separated from the book, I did end up getting a lot of enjoyment from the show and I can't wait to see what the next season will bring. I have so many more thoughts, but truly we'd be here all day if I wrote them all out. I'm excited to see what other people think. I felt so similar to that with the first half of Handmaid's Tale season one.

[02:04:04] It took me a while and maybe like two watches to get into it because the book meant so much to me. And actually, they didn't really change as much in Handmaid's Tale as they have in Testaments. But I remember feeling that way. Like, this is not Serena. This is not Fred. That is not what I had in my head. And it took me a while to get used to it. So I understand where Amber's coming from.

[02:04:34] Yeah. I really developed the ability to separate the two. So I'm totally appreciating the show. I don't even think about the book hardly at all. I've been rereading the book. It makes me think about the book a lot. Yeah. Amber, actually, she's from our book club. And she was able to go to a live event that Margaret Atwood was at. It was really cool.

[02:05:05] She lives in Canada, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Margaret Atwood, when this book came out, gave a talk at the high school about, you know, 50 steps away from my house right across the street here. So I went to it with Karen and David and we got copies of the book, I think signed. And I got to go check. But anyway, the interviewer was horrible.

[02:05:30] Kept stepping on her line and just wouldn't let her talk and was fawning all over her. I was like, I wanted to jump up on stage and throw her off and take over. Yeah. I hate interviewers that don't let the person talk. That's what we're here for. Especially when it's Margaret Atwood. Come on. My gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[02:05:52] I think it's important to let an interview go where it's going to go and steer it with questions, but let the person being interviewed really unload and say what they need to say. Yeah. When the interviewer forgets that people aren't there to hear you, that's when it can go wrong. They're more worried about their perception or their performance. Yeah. She seemed like she wanted to impress Margaret Atwood, but it wasn't working. Okay.

[02:06:22] Jennifer Zertucci Goosman says, I thought it was a fantastic episode and ending to a great season one. I had to make sure by pausing on the credits that I saw who I saw as a woman prison guard. Bravo to that cameo. LOL. I was confused why Hulda was not included in the last scene, but I'm assuming it's because she still has a fiance slash husband. That's what we were thinking. She wasn't outed as defiled, right? No, I think it's a secret.

[02:06:52] Yeah. That she was assaulted. I hope they keep Becca around for the series run because I love her and that actress is just breaking my heart with her portrayal. I wouldn't be mad if they gave her her book ending as long as they wait till the episode end episode, please. LOL. I hate having to wait for next season. In the meantime, I'll be fighting against the wannabe sons of Jack off. We have here in the U S that would love to see this reality. Hashtag vote 2026. Hear, hear.

[02:07:23] Yep. A listener from Oregon says, Hi, Jason, Wendy and Daphne. Just to note about something that Jason mentioned in the last few episodes of the Testament series regarding a widely misquoted and misunderstood phrase. God helps those who help themselves. God helps those who help themselves is a famous proverb emphasizing personal reliance and proactive initiative. Despite widespread belief, it is not found in the Bible.

[02:07:50] While the concept traces back to ancient Greece and Aesop's fables, the most modern version was popularized by Benjamin Franklin when he included it in his Poor Richard's Almanac. Theological contrast shows that while the proverb champions self-reliance, Christian faith teaches the opposite, that God helps the helpless.

[02:08:12] Verses like Romans 5-6 emphasize that humans are inherently unable to save themselves and divine grace is offered to those who cannot help themselves. The Bible does encourage hard work and warns against laziness, but this is viewed as managing responsibility rather than earning favor or achieving goals solely through human independence.

[02:08:34] In modern context, people use the phrase motivationally to argue that you should try to do your part before you expect an external intervention. I think this is close to what Jason was trying to convey in his statements, but he discussed it as if it was scriptural. The Testaments had a great season one, and I'm very glad it was renewed for another season. Thanks for the podcast. Well, I actually didn't think it was a scripture.

[02:09:03] I know it's a saying, and I don't really, I didn't know where it came from. That's interesting about Aesop's fables and the poor man's almanac, but I just thought it was a phrase that people say, and I like it, you know, God helps those who help themselves. Um, I would actually argue that saying God helps the helpless is not the opposite of God helps those who help themselves because

[02:09:32] God helps the helpless implies that if you can do something, you're not helpless. And so you don't need to sit back and wait for divine intervention. And I'd say the only way to figure out whether you can do something is to, is to try, uh, not just sit there and wait. And, um, I also, you said that people can't, the Bible says that people can't save themselves. I wonder what you meant exactly by save.

[02:09:58] If it's in some kind of a biblical sense, like we're all sinners and need to be saved. I think that's probably what you meant, but I'm talking more about just when you're in a bad circumstance, you shouldn't sit back and wait for divine intervention. You should do something. And that's, I, I, I believe that. And I hope everyone believes that because otherwise, uh, we're just going to sit back, hoping that God is going to do the right thing and let the bad people of the world ruin it.

[02:10:29] That's what I think. All right. Terry from Huntington beach. I liked the season. However, I have some criticisms in the first few seasons of the handmaid's tale. We witnessed the brutality of Gilead. Remember when June escaped the first time and was hiding at the abandoned newspaper company. When she was recaptured, we all felt the pain. I felt this emotion is missing in the testaments. Reasonable commanders. Listen to women.

[02:10:56] Our young go getter teens mouthing off to ants. Men in power, cutting their subjected ladies a break. This wouldn't happen in the handmaid's tale. And I think the show runners have missed the boat by smoothing over the brutality of Gilead. Here's what could, should happen to bring back the reality of Gilead. But I warn you, it's a little dark. Miriam gets sent to the colonies to live with her commander. And she is the lucky one of all our girls.

[02:11:24] Penny, after multiple miscarriages and is divorced by her commander. And because she can't have babies, is sent to work at Jezebel's. Hannah marries an old abusive commander and is abused daily. Becca is to be executed for murder, but she can have babies for the states. Her sentence is commuted to becoming a handmaid. Also, fellow fans of The Walking Dead, when I first saw Aunt Estee, I thought it was the same actress that played Neck Tattoo Girl.

[02:11:54] So what say you, podcastica crew? Do you think my dark fan fiction better represents the evil republic of Gilead? P.S. Fear not. The next president will be a Democrat because that is how the election cycle goes. Conservative liberal. But whatever you do, don't elect Gavin Newsom. He will destroy our country like he has destroyed my state. Hopefully all the little states will gang up on us, big states again, and save us from ourselves.

[02:12:23] I think you're right that your fan fiction fits the tone of the first couple of seasons of The Handmaid's Tale. Absolutely. But I think that my suspicion, and I've said this since we first started podcasting, is that the writers think, and I think they're right, that people don't want a story like that right now. We want stories that have more hope and rebellion and more victories in them.

[02:12:51] And as far as whether that sort of lessens the impact of Gilead or something like that, I still think everything that we've seen is believable. I mean, we're dealing with a different bunch of people now, different class of people. So it's not handmaids who are just considered nobody's sinners. It's daughters of rich guys, you know, high commanders.

[02:13:18] So you could sort of rationalize that that means they don't get quite as brutal of a treatment, I guess. I don't know. What do you guys think? I'm curious to know what you think about it. I mean, we are seeing a different part of Gilead. We aren't seeing The Handmaid's Tale. Yeah. This is a tale of the daughters. And it's different.

[02:13:43] And probably in homes very close to this area, there is atrocities happening on the regular. But we're just seeing a different part of the society. But they could have written it this dark. And I just personally, I'm kind of glad we're not going back to that level. Yeah. Especially when you talk about minors. Yeah. You know, like these are little girls.

[02:14:11] And there is a difference, you know? I mean, you know, I'm not sure people were ready for that. I mean, I still think it works as a powerful story of oppression. And I mean, this fucking dentist was, you know, sexually abusing these girls. Like, it's horrible. Yeah. And I mean, the plight of Becca was pretty freaking dark. Yeah.

[02:14:39] And it went on the whole season, pretty much. Poor Shunammite. Didn't get her period. It's awful. Yeah. Okay. Lisa says, I'm listening to the Season 1 Testaments podcast. Love it. And you mentioned, thank you. And you mentioned whether Margaret Atwood was in The Handmaid's Tale. She was in Season 1, Episode 1, when the girls were sitting in a circle and Aunt Lydia was punishing June. She was barely noticeable standing behind the circle.

[02:15:06] I mean, watching the entire series to see if I notice anything that'll shed light on The Testaments. I know one thing. I don't love Nick like I did the first time. Ooh, I'm listening. Interesting. I hear his lines much differently now. Maybe he would have been the hero I wanted him to be if June hadn't gone back with Luke. Either way, he seems much more spineless in hindsight. Sort of reminds me of spinelessness and a cause, quote, cause we deal with now. Thank you all for doing these detailed recaps of each show.

[02:15:35] Oh, your comments and insights add so much to the importance of what this series means, especially in the country right now. Oh, one thing I did notice re-watching Handmaids was how much more relevant the content is. One of the best scenes in the entire series to me was when the police slash guards were shooting at protesters right before the war. June and Moira were running to the slow motion version of Heart of Glass by Blondie. That scene could have come right out of Minneapolis. Can't wait for the next season to begin. Keep up the great work.

[02:16:04] Thank you, Lisa. Yeah. Yeah. Tammy writes, Secateurs are, of course, pruning shears. Pruning. Cuts that promote growth. That's exactly what happened in this episode. Pruning is always done to control growth. Sometimes it's done to remove undesirable growth. Sometimes it's done in the name of safety. Sometimes it's done to encourage which direction the plant will grow.

[02:16:29] The men of Gilead were, of course, only interested in removing the undesirable. Paula tried to prune Agnes' life into one that was safe for Paula and for Agnes. Beautifully, but tragically, Lydia, Vidal, and Becker's mother chose to do what they could to ensure Becca could still grow. Agnes and Daisy did their own pruning, cutting off the fear that could keep them from radical growth and change.

[02:16:56] Mothers, literal, figurative, and spiritual all sacrificed to push their daughters toward the light so they could bloom. The biggest theme I felt in this episode was the passing of the torch from the older generation of women to the younger. As a Gen Xer, I really felt this. I remember joining the Women's Studies Club in high school and feeling that flame get lit. Never did I think I would be pushing 50 and feel like we had to go all the way back to the start.

[02:17:25] Worrying about whether the younger women would be up for the fight, hating that they have to be.

[02:17:57] Worrying about how they could be. The kids are all right. Also, not a writer and too shy to talk. I just feel this show and I love your podcast. Aw. That's great. Thank you, Tammy. Thank you so much. I know Wendy probably hates it when I say stuff like this, but I think there's a good possibility that there's going to be a huge backlash, like rubber bands in the other direction after all of this. I don't hate it when you say that.

[02:18:26] I'm glad you're optimistic. And honestly, listening to all this feedback really helps me. It really does. I mean, I really want to see that. It's hard to imagine right now, but I think there's a decent possibility of it. All right. Laura T says, hello. Thank you for such a thoughtful podcast and I can't believe this first season is over. I love this show and I know this may be blasphemy, but I think I even like it better than The Handmaid's Tale.

[02:18:55] A few points. I agree. I don't believe the kiss was romantic on Agnes's side. She was comforting her friend who she loved. I think Lydia got the idea on how to save Becca from what Daisy said about moms, but I don't blame her. It was the only way to save her, but very expensive. I really hope the awakening has started for these girls and with Daisy whispering in their ears, they can become a strong resistance force.

[02:19:24] That ending was great. Love that song they played as the three were walking out. Please keep bringing up how this relates to now in America. I think one topic I don't remember you discussing was the Trump Epstein files and how they are similar to Gilead, especially how they would make the girls bring other girls to them, making them complicit, just like they make the girls and women in Gilead complicit in the terror and violence.

[02:19:52] Anyway, I was so sad to have to wait on the podcast this week, but looking forward to the feedback episode. Thank you all for the hard work you put into the show. Until next season, blessed be the fruit. Yeah, Epstein files for sure. Right. Just powerful men treating women like objects.

[02:20:13] I've always known about the Epstein files, but like I watched the Netflix documentary and just what I was so slapped in the face by was like how it was all out in the open. You know? Among the men. Among the men. It was reported by police like a decade before he got charged with anything.

[02:20:39] And then he did go to court, but it got swept under the rug. Right. At one point. He went to court. He got put on house arrest where he continued his activities. I mean, he just it's just so much that, you know, if you're rich enough, if you're powerful enough, you just get this, you know, get out of jail free card for everything. Yeah. And yeah.

[02:21:04] And how it's similar to Gilead is every every commander is powerful enough to. Yeah. To do that. And I forgot to call it the Trump Epstein file. Sorry about that. No, the Trumpstein files. Heather says, I was so scared for what the writers had in store for Becca.

[02:21:25] I was going to the darkest thing they could do with her character, which is make her marry that old grandpa commander or make her a handmaid and assign her to Mackenzie. Would they really assign her to her best friend's dad? Don't you think they would. I mean, that's straight out of house of the dragon. That's a different show. I know, but it's the same thing. Anyways, I did not see your mother taking the fall for her. Me neither.

[02:21:54] That was total surprise, which is also so dark. The best worst thing did happen, which is Garth did marry her. Maybe you meant to say the least worst onto Agnes. I knew the minute she fessed up to Weston that she was going to drop her like a hot potato. But I did love the Joan Crawford mommy dearest scene with Paula. So beyond pissed at Agnes. What did you know? Agnes stone cold lying. I have no idea why you would call it off.

[02:22:23] So glad we got more June and that she knows that Daisy has been with her with Hannah. That's the only reason June didn't cart her butt to the boat. She has someone right next to her daughter. So she's going to use that advantage. That's right. Love you guys. Recaps of each episode. The season cannot wait to see what you say about episode 10. Bring on season two. I want these three girls to fuck shit up for Gilead. Hashtag team shoe.

[02:22:54] Christy says, hello. I finished this episode and I had a feeling of being hugged is the best way I can describe it. From June sitting on her front steps, smiling in the sunlight to the young woman linking pinkies. It was promised at the end. However, it started with beautiful horror. The wardrobe set design and cinematography throughout Handmaid's Tale and the Testaments tell the story as much as the dialogue and the acting.

[02:23:19] The appearance of an agent of the eyes, Margaret Atwood no less, dressed all in black, gave me both a delightful thrill and a shiver. Judd in a stark prison office towers over Lydia and disabuses her notion of parody. Becca, dressed in a white nightgown in her gothic asylum setting, sings to herself in madness.

[02:23:40] Later, stumbling out of the car, dressed in her plum uniform, she appears to have been assembled into a facsimile of the young woman once sitting poised at the lunch table. Paula, scrubbing the floor in her wifely teal green, hair unpinned, lets vent her anger and frustration devolving in front of Agnes. The strangeness of it had me wondering if it were all a fever dream of Agnes's.

[02:24:08] Becca's nightmare continues, drugged and supported in bridal white, dropping her white roses, a symbol of her mother's death, and ends on the click of the key in the lock, shutting her away from the world again where she started the episode. On another note, thank you for the inclusion of the message from Rick and discussion in the listener feedback episode. I don't understand many things about politics in general, but especially the reasons behind why people vote the way they do.

[02:24:36] I found the discourse to be respectful and very enlightening under his eye. Thank you. All right. Emma Burroughs says, When I first watched The Handmaid's Tale five years ago, I remember thinking, well, aren't we lucky we're not living in an age or a country where this would ever happen? Worryingly, the possibility of real life mirroring Gilead is feeling increasingly more believable. What is worse is that it's not only men that are selling this nonsense.

[02:25:06] There are women influencers peddling misogynistic poison, just like Serena Joy. Absolutely. I know this is in America, but unfortunately, the UK usually follows suit. The USA has caught a nasty virus and the UK is about to sneeze. Yeah. I mean, I think we've seen it in other places too, right? Like Australia's got some of the same things going on. Yeah.

[02:25:35] I mean, it's weird because there's so many signs right now that people are sick of MAGA, Tucker Carlson coming out against them, or at least in some regards. And who's the other one? There's just a lot of MAGA influencers saying, oh, we're not MAGA, we're a Republican. But then you don't know. Like, yeah, it's... I'm hoping...

[02:26:05] Marjorie Taylor Greene is another one. Yeah, Marjorie Taylor Greene. That was one. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm hoping for a big, like, snap back the other direction rather than more of this ridiculousness. But yeah, they're... I mean, I saw Virginia, you know, seems to be making some big changes positively. Mm-hmm. All right. Let's see. Danny Clope says,

[02:26:48] Bruce Miller said to the Hollywood Reporter that his goal is to get June and Hannah together.

[02:27:01] Well, that is interesting. Tina Marie, I'll read the next one too. Tina Marie Grotzkritt says, I was so happy when Daisy told Agnes her real name is Hannah.

[02:27:29] It was so sad seeing Mrs. Grove be sacrificed for Becca. I was wondering what would happen to Mrs. Grove after the doctor was killed. I wasn't expecting what happened. It was awesome seeing June again. I'm glad Agnes won't be marrying Weston. I wonder how long we'll have to wait for season two. Yang M. Yang said, I love the season finale. Love Daisy and Chu. Can't wait for next season. My favorite line, she cut a bitch to help a friend. It's perfect.

[02:27:58] I mean, everyone wants a friend that would do that, right? Yeah. All right. Nicole Covello Edwards says, I saw this in another group. It wasn't clever enough to pick it up on my own. I haven't seen it posted yet here, but if it was, forgive me for the report. Apparently, Elizabeth Moss recently gave an interview that her character is raising Nicole Holly in Toronto. And thus, it's likely these unicorn converse here are hers.

[02:28:29] When she was leaving the house, she was carrying a backpack. She looked at a couple little girls outside after she read the note. One was a little girl of color in a plaid school uniform, so maybe Nicole, and she was getting ready to take her to school. She was of the right age when Daisy's voiceover said to never underestimate the power of teenage girls. Nicole was not of color. No. Yeah. I mean, well,

[02:28:56] I don't even know what ethnic background Nick was. I thought he was Caucasian, but yeah. Yeah. I don't know. He looked a little dark and smarmy. I would say, yeah, I don't know if one of the girls in the front was Nicole, but I definitely think the unicorn shoes were hers. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Rose to potty says, questions we have about Mrs. Grove. I decided her name is Jennifer. One,

[02:29:26] was she Becca's biological mother? Uh, I guess we don't know for sure. I never thought about it, but she could have been a, someone that was stolen or birthed by a handmaid. Two, did she suspect her husband was a serial predator? I wouldn't be surprised if she did on some level because she kept, she,

[02:29:54] they made a point to show her as the kind of person that brought up small talk a lot in order to avoid the hard conversations, which seems like a tactic of someone who on some level realizes there's something bad is going on and doesn't want to face it. Yep. Three, three. Did she know before it was sprung on Becca, what the answer plotting? I wasn't sure about this, whether she found out at the same time as Becca or had already known.

[02:30:23] She didn't seem like it was new information. Right. For sure. She did not. I don't know. Cause you think she might be like, what? No, what are you talking about? Uh, I'm glad we don't know the answers because each question changes how we view her so much complexity for a relatively minor character. That's a good point. All right. Susan forward. Joe says, am I seeing things or is that supposed to be baby? Nicole, Holly,

[02:30:51] happily playing off screen while June reads the message from Daisy. Also, besides hearing what Nick, that Nick was and I, we have never actually seen the eyes on screen to my recollection. Maybe they were always women. That makes me so sad though. I also wanted to talk more about Paula's lady, Macbeth out damn spot moment. I'm wondering if they're foreshadowing that she may feel a large amount of guilt over what had happened with Becca and Dr. Mrs.

[02:31:21] Grove. Don't know if it's too late for feedback, but listening to the much anticipated podcast episode, I wanted to say that when she refers to June as the handmaid, I wonder if it's because of her book testimony that she is recording that we see in the finale. Also hear the tape click in the very first episode. Maybe that has made its way into the world,

[02:31:45] but how the people in Gilead should have heard it would have to have one suspending disbelief, unless maybe she shared it as a cautionary tale of how awful and what liars the handmaids could be as a scare tactic to the girls. We thought we did a whole thing about all the different things that June did that the public would know about in some form or another. Yeah.

[02:32:12] Like leading the handmaids to kill the commanders and angels flight and smuggling baby Nicole out, et cetera, et cetera. There was another thing. Oh, have we really never seen the eyes on screen? I feel like we must have, but I don't, I think we might've thought they were like the guardians that like came to the farm to get Esther. Yeah. But, but I don't,

[02:32:39] we've definitely never seen this version of them and maybe it's just four years later and you know, they're getting new fashion. I don't know. All right. Cindy fine says, just wanted to tell the group that regarding the scene in which Hannah writes her name, check out season five, episode nine of the handmaid's tale. The end of the episode to see what Agnes Hannah is remembering. She's remembering herself in the past. The person in the background is herself, not a memory of June.

[02:33:10] That's how I took it when I watched it. Yeah. Matt King says, well, that was quite a season finale. Do we have a potential thruple developing with Garth, Becca and Agnes? No, especially with Agnes kissing Becca, June meeting Daisy and Gilead and discovering she's besties with Agnes McKenzie, her Hannah, which seemed to be a complete surprise to June that she was actually with her. Yep.

[02:33:40] We finally see the ants act as God's instrument and work with Becca's mom who took the blame for killing pervy dentist and was hung for it. Agnes persuading Garth to marry Becca to stop her becoming a fallen woman while her own engagement was broken by her husband to be after discovering she had been tampered with by the dentist. Becca looks completely broken, but she's alive and not a handmaid. Then at the end, Daisy telling Agnes that June is her mom. That was, she was the handmaid who then tells aunt Lydia who knows full well about

[02:34:09] June and to cap it off. Daisy sent June a note via the honey pots to explain. She's going to build an army of teenage girls to destroy Gilead from the inside. Can't wait for season two. Is any of this following the story of the book or is it wildly different now? It's pretty different. And there's a lot of, uh, fleshed out details. Yeah. Shantae Tazewell says, now that I've listened to the episode time to rewatch fourth time through

[02:34:38] Hannah makes it out of, out of Gilead, given she's reading the coroner's report. Currently she wouldn't know how to read. Also, you can hear a difference in her voice. Amazing show. Excellent podcast. Can't wait for season two. Thank you. Jacob Frick says, I don't think Garth is emotionally capable of taking care of Becca. I'm so worried for her. I don't think he's a bad guy. He just doesn't have the emotional maturity to help a person in her situation.

[02:35:08] I think that could be true, but I do think like he's probably, probably going to let Agnes have access to her. So, you know, he might not know what to do, but I think he'll be open to having her friends help her. So I think that'll be good. And I can't, maybe he'll grow as a person too, you know, because right now, like, well, we've seen him with Daisy, like he doesn't want to help her. He wants her to get,

[02:35:37] just please get the information like you're supposed to, and don't cause any trouble. And she's like, get me the fuck out of here. No, we can't get you out of here until Gilead's destroyed or taken down. But I feel like, like all characters in all series, they change. And so maybe he will end up helping Becca better than he did. Daisy, or maybe not. Who knows? I mean, just that he married her. Yeah.

[02:36:05] Was against his own interests. True. Yeah. Good point. He's already grown some. And I'll go ahead and just read Joanne's. Joanne felt she said, I was satisfied with it even more so because season two has already been announced. But even without that, I thought they wrapped some things up. June knows Daisy is with Agnes. Hannah, Agnes remembered who she is in that June is her mother. Aunt Lydia basically confessed. She is with Mayday.

[02:36:34] I was not surprised at all that Weston called off the engagement after Agnes confessed being hurt by Dr. Grove. I was surprised at how they got Becca out of being executed and her mother being hung as Becca got married was just heartbreaking. Oh, and did we all see Margaret Atwood in the asylum scene? Yep. Yep. It was, she stuck out like Ed Sheeran in Game of Thrones. Yeah. That is true. But she fit the part better.

[02:37:03] I felt like her look. Kylie Rosa said, I love that this episode blew all our minds because we didn't see it all coming. None of the predictions predicted this. Becca's mom standing up for her daughter truly had me emotional because a mom's love is like no other. And that's exactly what needed to happen. Unfortunately, commander Weston doing what he could for Agnes and Becca had me quote, hopeful that he was still going to marry Agnes, but I honestly had a feeling that he would not like that. She had been quote sullied.

[02:37:32] I love seeing Margaret Atwood quote, ladies and gentlemen, her played in my head iconic. I don't know what that's from, but I like it. I read the book and seeing how different the show versus the book is was difficult to accept at first, but I love where the show's headed. I, I love that Daisy wants to create an army and that Agnes finally knows who her mother is June. Hearing about Hannah just made my heart happy. Daisy saying, she, no,

[02:37:59] my will cut a bitch perfectly sums up why we love her. I want to find out about the girl's real parents and see how Daisy plans to get them to understand how they've been brainwashed. I absolutely love this show. I'm so excited for the fall of Gilead and I will be rewatching. I'm so sad it's over for now. Thanks for reading Kylie. I have all those sentiments. Like I'm feeling the same way about all that. Yeah. Mary cook says what an outstanding season finale episode.

[02:38:29] It delivered on so many levels, but also left us with more questions. A minor question. Why did Western break off the engagement with Agnes? Don't get me wrong. I'm certainly happy about it. My theory is that he lost interest after learning she had been sexually assaulted by Dr. Grove to him. She was, yeah, to him. She was now spoiled goods onto the major questions. What's going to happen to Becker? She was tragically made an orphan and a bride on the same day when Garth carried her up the stairs of their new,

[02:38:59] home. I noticed the layout of the house and especially the staircase looked very similar to Commander Lawrence's house in Boston. Maybe that was done on purpose to evoke the relationship Lawrence had with his wife who struggled with mental illness. Is this why Garth locked the door after putting Becker to bed? Does her current mental and emotional instability make him fear for his life? My last question has to do with June. Are we really to believe that she didn't know Daisy was placed in the same plum school as her daughter?

[02:39:28] I had assumed that was part of June's Mayday plan all along, but June was shocked to learn that Daisy was friends with someone by the name of Agnes McKenzie. I'm glad though, that this conversation between June and Daisy translated into a conversation between Daisy and Agnes. When Daisy informed Agnes that her real name is Hannah, the return of that repressed memory for Agnes seems to have ignited something in her. And I can't wait to see where it leads in season two. Let's see.

[02:39:57] We kind of talked about all this stuff when we podcasted about it, that it was suspension of disbelief that she didn't know that Agnes was nearby. Yeah. Like what kind of reports has Garth been giving? What's he been doing? He's, he's the guardian of Agnes McKenzie. And then also that, um, Garth locked the door after putting Beckett to bed. We just thought that maybe because she's been unstable that he might fear. I mean,

[02:40:27] either she could be a danger to him or she might just like run off. Yeah. Get herself killed or something. I could also see June not wanting to advertise who her daughter is, even to Mayday people, because then they get caught. And I don't know, I could see her not wanting to like draw attention to Agnes. You're saying that, what are you saying? That June? Like maybe she doesn't want to draw attention to Agnes.

[02:40:54] So she's not like out telling all the Mayday operatives, whatever you do, find this person. Yeah. But the question more is why didn't she realize that Garth was her daughter's guardian? Right. So if Garth doesn't know who Agnes is, doesn't know that June has a daughter in Mayday, if, if that's not common knowledge, then he wouldn't know to pass that information on. Yeah, I guess. I mean, yeah.

[02:41:24] And it seems like a need to know type organization, but I find it hard to believe that June wouldn't be still trying to get her back somehow. Yeah. All right. Maribel Piloto says, I'll watch the series till the end, but I have to say that I only get excited when June shows up. That scene between June and Daisy was the highlight of the season. I think they've changed the story from the book to keep us guessing,

[02:41:51] but the storytelling seems fragmented and not particularly impactful. In the book, Becca was abused by her father in the show. It didn't look like she was. So her killing him didn't really make sense. Had they kept the storyline of the abuse, it would have made more sense in the TV show. It seems like she killed him because he did something to Agnes. Sorry, but that's a bit unbelievable. I know Becca is in love with Agnes, but to destroy her family because her father did something to her crush.

[02:42:21] Didn't she think that would destroy her mother who would end up an older widow in a country where single older women are disposable. And then as her mother is being hung, she kisses Agnes. That is one messed up character. Also, why the heck was a drunk Paula on her knees cleaning the floor? Was she delegated to being a Martha when I wasn't looking? The character is like a bad Temu version of Serena. Then Garth carrying Becca into his house.

[02:42:51] What's wrong with that girl? She can't walk. Anyway, series is okay, but I don't feel the sense of dread or drama that we got with Handmaid's Tale, except when June is on screen. Nothing really is happening to the four main girls. People around them get killed, but things are actually working out for them. It sort of has a Harry Potter feel where you knew nothing really bad would ever happen to the principals. This is very different from Handmaid's Tale,

[02:43:19] which was an adult show about the brutality of misogynistic patriarchal theocracy. Do you guys agree? I know you don't agree. No, that's not my read of the show at all. Or Becca. Things are not working out for Becca, whose father, whose father was, well, she, he learned was sexually assaulting women, and her mother was executed,

[02:43:48] and she had to marry a man, even though she's queer. That is not something working out. Or Hulda, who was assaulted. Yeah. None of the girls. I mean, it's, I get that it's not the level of Handmaid's Tale, but. Yeah, that's true. I mean, Becca wasn't walking because she was drugged. Yeah. Um, I do. Uh, I, I think, I think it's,

[02:44:18] you're probably comparing it to the Handmaid's Tale and it is a different show. I'll give you that. And I, I've been saying from the beginning, it feels more hopeful and less intense. And the stadium was probably the closest to Handmaid's Tale, that episode. Um, so I, yeah, I could see, I mean, and also I kind of agree with you about Becca having that level of intense hatred of her father to kill her, kill him like that just because, he sexually assaulted her friends. Um,

[02:44:47] that's kind of what led me to think that he did do something to her. That's why I, I thought that, but, um, turns out not. So I understand where you're coming from there. Okay. Chris, Christy, man time. One time says, wow, wow, wow. Slow burn all season. And then wham so much packed into just one episode at wood cameo was awesome. Agnes's account of Dr. Groves, multiple stab wounds, including the genitalia lends credence to Becca's abuse.

[02:45:17] In my mind, Judd cut ties with Lydia Weston cut ties with Agnes. Garth didn't think he could marry Becca. Everyone is getting the hell out of the way of the scandal guilt by association is real in Gilead. And what was with Paula's mommy dearest episode in the bathroom? What a bitch. And June has met her match with Daisy, but that's what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object. As for the kiss, it was very sweet.

[02:45:46] An expression of love between the two girls that meant different things to each. And Agnes finally knows who she really is. The half June one quarter Holly daughter of the handmaid is about to be set loose on Gilead with her plum posse in tow. I can't wait for season two. Nice. And those last two emails couldn't have been more different. Yeah. Virginia Isabel says, this was an engaging episode to end the season.

[02:46:16] I love seeing so much of June and watching her realize that Daisy knew Hannah. I do have some reservations about certain things, but I enjoyed the overall pace and the excitement of the ending. Here's my questions thoughts. The chances Garth, Daisy and Agnes keep talking by having all these little meetings is driving me crazy. The Gilead we know from the handmaid's tale would have discovered them by now and punished them for being traitors. Mayday went to all the trouble and risk of getting Daisy out,

[02:46:46] then agreed to take her back in again. Considering she already had shown her lack of discipline so many times, I find it unlikely that they would do so just based on her word. It seems as though Agnes slash Hannah still doesn't remember her early years with her real parents. Even after she's given the info about her mother and her actual name, she just remembers that she has a paper with the name Hannah on it. She doesn't seem to have any memories of her real parents at that time.

[02:47:14] She just remembers herself at a younger age. I love that Aunt Lydia sees fit to finally acknowledge to Agnes that she knew her mother and it seems like she is starting to admit Agnes into her secrets. Although I love the fact that girls are teaming up to protect themselves, it also feels like very risky behavior in this world and they completely get away with it, which I'm of course happy about, but it just seems too easy considering they're in Gilead.

[02:47:42] I would think that maybe Gilead had become slightly less restrictive after all these years, but that obviously isn't true because look what happened to the young man in the first episode. I feel like Becca will not be unable to function normally for a long time. With everything that has happened to her, including the death of her mother, I think she'll be in shock for quite a while. It will be difficult for God to protect her after a while. No more comparisons to the book.

[02:48:11] They've now completely diverged from it. On the one hand, I'm disappointed about that, but on the other, it has certainly become very exciting. I feel like they'll come back to certain elements of the book, much like the Walking Dead comic did, where it would diverge from the comics at times, and then I thought, oh, they're going on their own path now, and then I was surprised that, oh wow, they came back to a storyline in the comics, so maybe it'll be kind of like that. Yeah.

[02:48:39] But they have diverged in some ways that they're going to have to do it differently if they do that. All right. Alex Wright says, I didn't see the sacrifice of Becca's mother coming. June not knowing where Agnes Hannah was explains a lot. I wasn't expecting Mrs. Grove to be hung after some of the other execution methods we've seen in Gilead. I was fearing a salvaging or another swimming pool or some horror I hadn't yet thought of.

[02:49:08] Though it looked like it was a short drop, presumably to make it more painful, perhaps this ending might lead to Agnes becoming an aunt. I thought the reason why they kind of, I mean, if we're going to say like, went easy on her, was because they know she didn't do it. They know. They're just, it's just a symbolic execution. Well, I mean, she's dead. I don't.

[02:49:36] I'm not, I think they're saying like that she wasn't tortured or. I see. Yeah. Swimming pool was the one with Sydney Sweeney. Okay. Now we have two calls. The first one is from Christian. This message is for the host of the Handmaid's Tale, the Testaments podcast.

[02:50:01] And I just want to encourage you to continue the coverage that you've been giving, listening to your most recent post, hearing the listening letters. I just want to say that you're doing what needs to be done. Art is political. And if people don't understand that, if people can't acknowledge that, that's on them.

[02:50:31] It is not our place to prevent someone else from feeling shame. We should shame those who practice hate. We should shame those who practice simply rolling back what others have fought so hard for. We should make them shame. We often say, see something, say something.

[02:50:58] We look at history and we look at how atrocities took place because people were not made to feel ashamed. And again, I don't think that that's your goal. I don't think that that's anyone's goal. That's on you if you feel ashamed. So stop hating. Anyway, I love your coverage.

[02:51:23] And I urge you to continue your coverage just as you have. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that. And our last call is from Monique. Hello, Wendy, Daphne and Jason. This is Monique from Kalamazoo. I'm so glad to have had a podcast to pick apart each episode as thoroughly as I do in my own head.

[02:51:50] I am a reader and have read both the Handmaid's Tale books and the Testaments. I watched all of the Handmaid's Hulu show in full and was really excited that the Testaments was finally going to come to fruition this year. As far as everyone else, I really think Margaret Atwood has had her say and ending to her saga and gave her blessing for others to play in the world she inspired.

[02:52:17] So we just need to be patient and let's see how this story comes to life. I have great base ideas and concepts to work from. And honestly, season one was only the book two. So everything else was inspired from Atwood's work and wasn't in a book. So why should we want everything from the Testaments to be in the series? That wouldn't be fun.

[02:52:48] I'm really glad they've decided to expand on the characters from who they were in the books. We saw, excuse the wrestling term, a face turn of Aunt Lydia in the last couple seasons of The Handmaid's Tale. I'd really like to see a true fruition of that face turn.

[02:53:10] I'd really love to see her powers used for good and really being able to just stick it to those commanders. I'd really like to see her as well. Also, Shunammite. Come on, girl. Come on. What can we say? Go, Shunammite. She's awesome. I kind of really couldn't stand her in the books.

[02:53:32] But this iteration of the character and the actress are just wonderful to watch every week. She's fun. She's lovely. She's like the naughty Catholic friend, you know, Catholic school friend that everybody always wanted. And you always were smoking behind the bathroom or, you know, doing something bad together. But you always had each other's backs.

[02:54:05] And now that we're getting closer to, you know, marriages for some of these girls, I'd love to see what happens to them when they are married. You know, like what's it like to be a commander's wife who basically knows nothing more than being a good girl? So, anyway, love the show and keep it up. You're doing a great job. Have a great night.

[02:54:36] Thank you, Monique. I love that you used a wrestling term. I'm a wrestling fan, so it's great that you used the face term. I get that so well. Thanks, Monique. And we'll have some more feedback that contains book spoilers at the very end.

[02:55:12] All right. That's our show. Thanks for listening, everyone. And this is our final episode on The Testaments. Or is it? I don't usually like to pre-announce things before they're set. But so this is tentative. But I'll say that it looks like we may get an interview with the big cheese, Bruce Miller. All right. So that may happen. After he sleeps for a little while.

[02:55:41] Yes. He's probably tired. He deserves the rest. All right. That's our show. Thanks for listening. And you know we'd cut a bitch for you guys. All right. Book talk. Book spoilers. Book spoilers. Yeah.

[02:56:08] This is where the message is that might have some book spoilery stuff in them. Might not even be that spoilery, but we just put them here just in case you guys. Other people didn't want to be spoiled. Spoiled. Is it? Whose turn was it? It's you. Let's see. It's me. Okay. Okay. So the first one comes from Maggie Rapucci who says, I enjoyed this season finale and can't wait to see where it goes in season two. The whole time I thought June and Lydia were in communication.

[02:56:35] June not knowing that Agnes was at the same school she sent Daisy to is mind blowing. Lydia pairing them together randomly is also somewhat unbelievable. There's a million other little things running through my mind right now. Does Garth really not know who June famous terrorist is despite getting a message to her about Daisy? Why is Paula the only wife with short hair? What is going? That's a good question. What is only gone? What is going on with those female eyes? June still in and out of Gilead?

[02:57:03] I don't think so. She was out of Gilead. I think they took Daisy out. This time presumably farther south than she'd been before. Love that. A group of Martha's was escaping. What? A group of Martha's was escaping? Yeah. Yeah. They were also escaping. They were escaping. They were also in honey barrels. They showed them very briefly. Really? Yes. Yes. I totally missed that.

[02:57:32] So they were in the barrels all around. You're already packed in. Yeah. Oh my God. They were escaping. They were running. That's insane. I'm a bad podcaster. Okay. I have to watch that again. It goes on. Looking forward to hearing your discussion on the episode. Thanks for a great season. Well, thank you. One significant detail. Paula gave an apparent explanation for why Gilead hasn't killed Agnes slash Hannah or worse to get to most wanted Mayday terrorist.

[02:58:00] Oh, to get to most wanted Mayday terrorist June. That Commander McKenzie wouldn't allow it and was able to prevent it. She means chopping up off her body parts. That was so insane. But honestly, it did remind me of Mommy Dearest so much. But would they kill her if they hadn't set her aside for that? I mean, they gave her to the McKenzie's to be their child. I don't know. She goes on.

[02:58:30] Paul said they wanted to send Agnes body parts piece by piece to June, which sounds like the kind of thing Gilead might do. Absolutely. Hold on. I want to look something up in my notes really quick. It won't take long. It was at the end of last week's episode. We didn't do a book talk, but I just wanted to check with you guys.

[02:58:54] So at the end, Aunt Lydia says, you've been marked now to Agnes because of this. But we don't give up like your mom or whatever. That's not exactly how it went, but something like that. So I feel like this could be how Agnes becomes an aunt, right? Were you guys thinking that she'll become an aunt?

[02:59:17] It could, but I don't know that that's the route they'll go because becoming an aunt takes a long time. I think anything could happen. Anything could. Yeah, I think anything. I think it's probably likely one of them will be an aunt, but I think it could go anyway. But she, in the book, she asked to be an aunt, right? She's like, and they pulled her out without, and Paula got pissed.

[02:59:47] Yeah. Yeah. Emily Belanger says, Weston seemed to pull strings to get Becca released back to her mom, which is huge. We know Agnes dodged a huge bullet with him, so this was truly the best case scenario. She helped Becca and got out of marrying an old man she didn't care for and who would have treated her terribly.

[03:00:06] I'm kind of disappointed we aren't getting the Becca aunt story arc, but maybe with her being married to Garth, she'll be allowed to work at the school and in some way and keep in line with some of the book storyline they have together because why else keep her alive in the series? She is gay and obviously won't fall in love with Garth over time.

[03:00:27] Yeah, it feels like they're not doing the Becca aunt thing, but I do think that there is a good chance this is going to get messed up in some way. I mean, it's got to. We need drama for the show. The only way Becca could become an aunt is if something happens to Garth, which could happen. I actually was terrified for him all season.

[03:00:55] I mean, the worst possible story is if nothing happens and it's fine. Yeah. Yeah, everybody's fine and happily ever after. All right. This is from Robin Price Daily. Really? I'm certain I will stick with the show because I'm curious and because of how much I love The Handmaid's Tale, but am I the only person upset with how far they have jumped from the book?

[03:01:19] I get adapting because of how they did things in The Handmaid's Tale, but I just don't get most of the changes they made or understand why they think they had to. Make it make sense. Book issues aside, I don't get the policy. What was she doing and why was she doing it? I love what they are doing with the Daisy character, but the writers know the number one question everyone has is who the heck is she since she is not who she's supposed to be.

[03:01:46] Yet we went the entire season without even a hint, a cliffhanger or anything about her identity. The way they are portraying Lydia is also confusing. Everyone comes into the school and gives an offering worshiping her. Yet she is being portrayed as this meek, weak old lady who has lost most of her power and is all but being replaced. She used to be able to manipulate everyone. Now she treads lightly in every encounter so conflicting.

[03:02:14] I kind of wish I had never read the book. Maybe I would enjoy the series more rather than be frustrated with all the changes. It's kind of what I was thinking that it seems like some people would be happier if there wasn't if there never was a book. But my theory on Lydia is she's trying to pull strings behind the scenes, but she's afraid to do things more publicly because she doesn't want to take that kind of a risk. He's being very strategic.

[03:02:40] And it may appear that Lydia is meek and weak, but that's only how it appears. Like, I don't fully believe that Lydia is just this meek, weak old lady. I think she is very strategic in everything she does. Yeah. And she's writing that she's writing in the journal.

[03:03:03] So in the book, that's for the purpose of taking down Gilead and she needs it to be full and complete with lots of details. And then she needs to get it out of Gilead. So she doesn't want to risk that. She's like Garth, you know, she has a big picture thing in mind. If that's what she's doing. I also kind of thought they were showing a theme of that Lydia couldn't do it by herself.

[03:03:30] And she was not somebody who wanted to accept help from anybody, but they kind of built up to that and made this kind of network between the younger girls and the aunts. Yeah. And I like that. And Lydia trying to tell everyone, hey, I learned at the beginning of this that you need to be hard and not have any friends or trust anyone. And maybe Lydia is going to learn a lesson. That's right. Well, you know what? Sometimes you do need people, Lydia. Right.

[03:03:59] And the aunts have been trying to bust up their friendships and teach the girls not to do that. But I think they're learning something from the situation. Yeah. Okay. Danny Klopp says, I love the book. So some of the changes to the story have been tough for me personally. I love the show and the actresses have done a phenomenal job. But I've been a bit sad that we won't see the story unfold the way it did in the book. Like seeing Becca be an aunt.

[03:04:27] Well, we might see that if Garth gets killed. Yeah. I think everything is still on the table. I think that there's a lot of possibility. And so I'm not closing any doors. I'm on the ride to see what happens.

[03:04:46] And I think they've been very careful to build this story in a way that they can keep some of the book magic, but also build it out. I'm grateful that we get the Shunammite that we're getting on the show. I know. Yeah. And the show's going over really well. Like if I look down the, um, in IMDb, you know, how the users can rate them.

[03:05:14] It's like 8.2, 8.0, 8.7, 8.4. And the last two are 9.3, 9.3. Yeah. Those are some good scores. Yeah. And it's consistently at the top of Hulu, like in the top two. So people are digging it. Last one. Joanna Palermo says, listening to the pod and thinking about how Daisy said she's an experiment as she becomes a plum.

[03:05:42] Do we think Lydia knows exactly who Daisy is and knows it would benefit Mayday more to make her a wife rather than a Martha or aunt married to a commander, maybe even a high ranking one or too risky. I think Lydia put Daisy with Agnes. Well, I thought she put her there for a reason.

[03:06:05] I feel like she knows at least that Daisy is, yes, is a associative Mayday or a Mayday operative. Yeah. I thought that, but now I don't know what I think about that. I think maybe none of them know what the other's doing, you know? Yeah. But that's certainly what I inferred for most of the season.

[03:06:35] Yeah. I thought that. And then when Daisy, we didn't know, we knew even less about her than when the bus got attacked and Daisy just sprung into action to try to save Agnes. And I thought, Mayday operative, who's been given the task from June Osborne to protect her daughter at all costs and bring her back. And then we find out, nope, none of that's true. And Daisy barely even had any training. So why did she do that?

[03:07:00] Oh, it's just because Daisy's a badass and, you know, just is always trying to protect people that she cares about. I guess that's the explanation for that. That is it. That's all? Thanks for sticking with us. Wow. If you're still here, drop a note on the group. I want to know. Yeah. Yeah. We need Matthew Broderick to come out in his robe and tell you guys to go home. I'm still here. Yeah. Thanks, guys.

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