11: "Strangers and Friends" (The Wheel of Time S2E2)

[00:00:00] Hello, and welcome back to our podcast. I'm Greg. And I'm Veronica. And this is The Wheel of Time. Cast? Podcasts? Something like that. And this week we'll be covering The Wheel of Time Season 2 Episode 2, Strangers and Friends. Oh man, it feels like forever since

[00:00:49] I've talked to you. It's been all of, you know, two whole days. I'll be honest, I didn't get a chance to watch the episode on Saturday night, but I managed to watch it on, I think, Sunday night. And I will say it didn't really disappoint. How'd you feel?

[00:01:14] Yeah, I liked it. I did struggle with how much they sort of jumped around back and forth to the same storylines. Like, I definitely had to do a rewatch for myself not having all that background,

[00:01:28] like, to piece it all back together. And I still feel like I have a lot of questions, but I really enjoyed the episode. Oh, that's great. I'm glad you enjoyed it. All right, so we're gonna kind of just

[00:01:43] move through this because we, again, this time, we're not doing feedback. Or, well, we didn't get any feedback because I am not a great, don't have a ton of time and I didn't put up a podcast

[00:01:58] post, feedback post until, you know, like an hour and a half ago. But anyway, I swear I'm gonna do it either tonight or tomorrow morning. I swear. And if I don't, then we will,

[00:02:11] I'll have this conversation again next time. Why don't you go ahead and give us what the Amazon summary gives us, Veronica? It is, again, a super informative description. The two rivers, youths forge new relationships while land tries to mend an old one.

[00:02:30] Oh, well, thank God they let us know. You know what? The devil's in the details. And there are definitive details in there, right? So we'll just go ahead. And so where do we leave everybody, right?

[00:02:46] Moraine was kind of a B and land and Moraine were almost D. And we saw a little bit of Matt, a little bit of Rand. I was glad we got more of them this time. And then

[00:03:02] a Gween and Nineyave were at the White Tower and Perrin is chasing, chasing Pat and Fane. And is that who else? Is that it? I think that's everybody. We had the opener of whoever that was. Oh, yeah, the bad guys.

[00:03:24] Leave it at that for now. And I guess we got a peek in at them. So so the in in, can you give me your general thoughts rather than get not getting done when you get into detail points, but general thoughts on on your on the

[00:03:45] episode this time? Yeah, I'll tell you what. You know what? No, we're just going to wait. We're freewheeling here. Veronica, give me three of your questions that made that you just went. What the hell is that?

[00:04:00] OK, I think if we stay really narrow, so let's like not delve outside of just this question because it'll go too much into one of my points. But yep, no, that's fair. Is it common for I said I to not be able to age or was that something

[00:04:20] very specific that Leandron had figured out? Or do we not know that yet? I just wasn't sure if I missed something. You that she explained it in this episode, this was the first time that it was specifically said and that was stated in general about

[00:04:42] I said I like about any of them are able to do that. OK, so the key being is that any ice to die that you see if they look really old, they're probably really old. OK, interesting. OK, all right. That's question number one.

[00:05:03] Oh no, what were my other questions? I just sprung this on her literally as you heard that. So the other one might get too much into. I might get a little bit too much into my point, but I guess.

[00:05:20] I came across what I think it's been hard to understand the dragon reborn season one. I sort of was mostly just assuming this person is bad and only destined for bad and saw him as one of the bad guys sort of in with the dark one.

[00:05:41] And at the end of season one, I started to realize like understand more about you know, the last dragon and that his intentions were good, even though things seemed to go terribly bad. And maybe he was careless, but it wasn't till like he was trying

[00:05:57] to seal off the dark one, right? Right. And so I guess in this episode, I was more clearly understanding that there are the dark one and dark friends. That's sort of like one faction. There is the dragon reborn and his followers who are actually anti

[00:06:16] the dark one, I guess it seems like that. And then the third faction is what I called women and women only, but just like the Isidae thinking that like, you know, basically the dark one and the dragon reborn are bad

[00:06:36] and the only people that can carry this forward are women. As I said, I am my understanding sort of that breakdown, right? Is it just complicated because the dragon reborn could kind of go either way and there are people who are hoping he'll go one way.

[00:06:52] I don't know. I think I got a little lost there. OK, well, I will go ahead and be a little bit more. I will clarify a little bit. You know the the Venn diagrams, right? So imagine that there are three circles in the Venn diagram

[00:07:13] and one of them are dragons reborn or men who can channel. One of them is dark friends and one of them is literally everybody else. So there you can be a literally anybody else who is a man who can channel.

[00:07:33] You can be literally anybody else and an Isidae. I'm sorry, and a and a dark friend. You can be in like the Isidae fall into the everybody else. Right. So there's not so much factions. The intent is not. There's the dark one and the dragon.

[00:07:52] There's like it's not it's not the light and the dark. And like the light is dragon reborn. It's it's kind of the dragon reborn can choose one path or the other. He can support the dark one or he can.

[00:08:12] He can support the light and fight the dark one. He is destined to do so. I think I thought I think I thought. Last season for much of this season, I was thinking about it as the dragon reborn sort of has owned

[00:08:28] this one set path, which is to sort of become like corrupted. And obviously by the end of the season, I saw that Moirain was hoping to at least use his power for good. But yeah, I don't think I've really been straightening it all out

[00:08:47] until this episode, I guess, and hearing some of the ways that the dragon reborn was referenced and people supporting him the way they talked about it felt different in this episode. So I don't know that necessarily answers anything, but

[00:09:08] I don't know. I definitely don't think I answered your question, but we will we will learn more as time goes on. Yeah. Perfect. OK, any do you have one last one? I feel like those were my big ones.

[00:09:28] Yeah, I feel like I have other outstanding questions like things about the arches and all of that. But I think those are ones that I just I'm going to have to wait on because I think the show is going to reveal it to us.

[00:09:45] So I think those are my two big that I just wasn't sure if I was fully fully understanding where everything fell out. So I think that helps me to place things better. OK, all right. Cool. Oh, no, I do know what my other question was.

[00:10:01] I did have one other. OK, good. Pat and fame. Yep. He's been traveling with Fades, correct? Yes. Has it been revealed that he is a dark friend and that he's been part of like the rest of that group that was with Ishamayu? Or what do you mean?

[00:10:25] Has it been revealed? Have we seen them together? Are they together? Pat and fame was in the room at the beginning of the first episode. OK, that's what I thought. And so yes. Yeah. And Trolli Trollix, whom he told Perrin that he brought

[00:10:44] to the two rivers at Faldara when he took the Horn of Valir, he told him that he and Trollix are the dark one's creatures. OK, so yes, he is a dark friend. OK, I was just making sure that I had that all straight

[00:11:00] because there were a few like. Pattern of things in the parent storyline that I wasn't sure if I was understanding correctly, but I think making sure I had that right. I think I get it. So we can delve into it more when we go through our points.

[00:11:16] All right, sounds good. All right, so we'll take a little break and then we'll get into our points. Give us just, you know, maybe a minute, minute and a half. And you can listen to some some wonderful things that we definitely support. Welcome back.

[00:11:34] We hope you heard those ads about something really interesting that you're excited to purchase that we 100 percent endorse. Yeah, no, that that that second one, I would like that one. I was super excited about. I could could not tell you how excited I am about that.

[00:11:52] You guys heard about those those wonderful products. Absolutely. All right. So let's go ahead and get into our notes, not to our notes, our points. All right, Veronica, what's your first point? My first point. OK. Let's talk about sort of, I guess, we'll just piggyback

[00:12:14] on what I was already talking about with the dragon reborn before I went to the break. So I feel like a lot of things happened in this episode that were to me felt like kind of big reveals. And so one of those was when Moiraine was talking to

[00:12:32] Varen, is that the other? Yes. I said I his name, Varen. And they had that tense moment and then it was revealed that Varen is dedicated to the dragon. As is Moiraine, and she said that

[00:12:52] there, but then she also said it to land at the end of the episode. That am I right that that's the first time we've heard her use words such as I'm dedicated to the dragon reborn? Has she said that in the past?

[00:13:09] Because I just felt like a different way of talking about it. And I was having trouble understanding. I mean, I guess she can't lie, right? Right. But she definitely is good at saying things in specific ways. You know, that can be misinterpreted by people.

[00:13:31] You know, just as she like had people believing Rand was dead, but she never actually said it. And so I was having a hard time understanding if that was truth. If she's dedicated to the dragon, which felt strange to me

[00:13:48] because it seems from everything that I've seen of Moiraine, she seems dedicated to sort of duty above all and sort of her duty to see the world survive, I guess, not dedication to a specific person. And so I just found it interesting.

[00:14:13] I thought it was, you know, also interesting that Varen was talking about it that way, but more interesting to hear Moiraine talk about it that way, just because it felt not what I would have expected from her character. OK, so I'm just going to add a little bit

[00:14:33] and it's what we got in the episode as well, just in a different storyline. So each of the Ajahs in the White Tower, they have a focus and Leandron went through and talked about all of them in reasonable detail.

[00:14:52] So like yellows are they want to heal the sick and grays are mediators and and you know what, it may not have been all of Leandron. I know she talked about the yellows specifically, but in one of the I went back and watched all the origin videos,

[00:15:13] the animated origin videos and the one about the Isidae and all of the Ajahs. Maybe that's where I'm getting my information from. But the blues were dedicated to justice and they were dedicated to a cause. The Browns, which Varan is, is dedicated to history

[00:15:34] to learning the lessons of the world past so that either would not repeat the negative ones or they would learn and not repeat past mistakes or at least have it recorded. Right. So she's she and Adelaia sir writing a book

[00:15:55] history of the world since the breaking or something like that. And so blues, as in Maureen, she they they're dedicated to a cause and maybe it's this cause. Maybe the causes are different from from blue to blue. But each of them chose blue because

[00:16:14] they are looking to see a cause carried through maybe because they believe in something or they believe in whatever. But the world, the breaking happened three thousand years ago. There have been a ton of causes. Maybe it's peace for all mankind.

[00:16:32] Maybe it's, you know, to increase the power of the White Tower. And so they go and, you know, so descent among kings or monarchs so that so that the White Tower can actually gain more power. That's I mean, but a cause is a cause is a cause

[00:16:50] and blues are dedicated to them. And so it does not surprise me that Maureen is has found a cause that she is dedicated to, but she's also concerned because other people don't see it her way. She wants the dragon to fight and defeat the dark one.

[00:17:09] And other people may just believe he's a false dragon and that he like she believes that the dragon reborn is destined to to defeat the dark one, which is why it's she's so desperate for for for him to be turned to the light and be given good guidance.

[00:17:31] And I may be letting some of my book knowledge bleed over into into this and I'm not trying to and I'm not trying to spoil anything for anybody. But that's what I got. She was willing to kill a sister, an ice at eye sister to protect rammed.

[00:17:50] Yeah. And so it does not shock me to to do that, but only because I do have some previous knowledge of of her. Her her Ajah's cause or her Ajah's purposes. Interesting. I also I mean, I found it so strange at the end of season one

[00:18:12] that the plan was just to let him sort of go off. I can see that. Yeah. And especially now that she's like, well, now I need to go find him again. Why did you ever think?

[00:18:32] Like either he has a dangerous amount of power and or he's going to go crazy. Why did you think sort of letting him go off to disappear was a good plan anyways? I don't know.

[00:18:46] I mean, at that point, I don't know how much of a choice she had. She couldn't physically stop him. She couldn't use the one power on him. She might have tried to talk him into, you know, I said I are well known for using their words to

[00:19:02] to to convince or connive. But, you know, the truth you hear is not necessarily the one that they're saying. So. Yeah. So that's that's that's what I have so far on that. All right.

[00:19:19] Well, that was really my main point or my first point was just sort of the reveals of sort of more allegiance is falling out and sort of what I see as three groups that people seem to fall into you, which is like

[00:19:35] following the dark one, believing the dragon reborn is who is going to save us from the dark one and believing the dragon reborn is not who is going to save us from that, I guess. That's OK. I think those are those are good questions to have.

[00:19:53] And I would say that that I'm not going to say you're on the right path because I don't know how I think I know the story, but I would not be able to tell you how this story is going to go. For sure.

[00:20:07] All right, so I am going to move over to the White Tower and specifically I'm going to move on to one of our new characters, Elaine. Yeah. So Elaine is the daughter heir of Andor, who where the Andor is the country in which the two rivers resides. Now.

[00:20:34] A queen doesn't know who Elaine is. She doesn't I don't even know that she knew she was an and or so she froze from Andoran or that she was an Andoran. Well, that is tough to say. The I'll just say the attitude with which a queen

[00:20:54] initially receives Elaine and kind of the what you could see as like a haughty, privileged, entitled person. And you're like, hey, please don't block my door. Oh, I'm so glad to see that. I'm the red of the other novices. Oh, you're one of those.

[00:21:17] And then then when she goes in and she's like, oh, I can't believe they didn't clean the room. And it's like, hmm. And then like, don't get me wrong. Like Elaine was a little bit self aware that she's like, oh, you didn't just move in my bad.

[00:21:39] And, you know, she she seemed genuinely apologetic. But and then the look on a queen's face when she said when Elaine said, you know, Cubs, one and Elena met for the first time like they were adjacent. Now, I don't know who those people are,

[00:22:01] but and I don't imagine that we're supposed to. But I imagine they are well known. I said, I and you know, they are people of legends. So so very well could be a matter of and she's like, oh, don't you know?

[00:22:18] Don't you don't you wonder what's going to come of us? And the the look that a green gives her is, I think pretty comical. She's like, yeah, OK, psycho. Yeah, they had a really fun, a fun dynamic. I enjoyed it too.

[00:22:37] But I think that Elaine really kind of built herself back up in a green's eyes when she was willing to take the punishment for someone who was trying to do her mother a favor. And when Sherriam went to come down on the lane,

[00:22:54] and she was just like, oh, well, then yeah, I'll take it. Oh, well, you'll be here. You'll be in my office for three months feeling the switch on your shoulders. Oh, before after breakfast. I was like, and then I feel like I saw that, you know,

[00:23:10] the those a queen starting to resize her and then their final scene together. I really do think based on what we saw here in this episode, that they will do great things together. And I'm really looking forward to seeing how that relationship blossoms

[00:23:36] because Elaine is a bit of a straight shooter. Now, she's never necessarily. I mean, I'm not saying she never had consequences as a child. But as royalty, you don't always get the same reception as you do. Not royalty will just say not royalty or not even well off

[00:23:57] or from a small village. You don't get treated the same and but you also are taught. I mean, I'm not royalty, but I would imagine that you are taught to have that self confidence, to have that understanding of

[00:24:14] of your own worth where a queen is definitely suffering from. It's just so hard and I try and I try and I try that the whole you know, jealousy doesn't look good on you. Yeah, was I thought that was that was well said. And I'm not jealous.

[00:24:33] Yeah, OK. And I say this with the kindest of intention. But so yeah, I I really like to lane I thought I thought that the about her introduction was was well done and and even in that opening, like you you only had maybe like two minutes

[00:24:57] to kind of go, oh, this rich bitch over here. And then she like started, you know, being more understanding and hopeful and all that. I thought it was I thought they did really good character development throughout the episode and showing different sides of her.

[00:25:13] Absolutely. I loved her like I can't wait to see more of her. And I really felt like that it was really good casting the actress they had playing her. I mean, I feel like the lines she had

[00:25:30] could have easily been like you could have disliked her more strongly off the bat for some of the things she was saying. But she was able to deliver it in such a way and then deliver the embarrassment that she felt sort of at sticking her own

[00:25:47] foot in her mouth, I think so well, while still, you know, being confident without being cocky, I guess. Right. And I just felt like the actress did a really good job of sort of balancing those two sides to her personality and coming off as still someone

[00:26:03] that I think most of us loved by the end of the episode and are excited to see more. So, yeah, it was fun. I imagine I'm curious like as a book reader, are you satisfied with who they've chosen? Nice because those are hard ones, right?

[00:26:21] When it's a beloved character, you know, there's at least for me whenever I'm a reader and watching something, I'm always more worried that they might ruin a character that I'm particularly fond of. And so she just, I don't know, she seemed great.

[00:26:36] But I was curious from your perspective of what you might have wanted from this character if she fit so far. I am satisfied. I think that they are I've paid much more attention to writers and directors and in more recent years.

[00:26:59] And I have found that a lot of the time an actor can can deliver something. And it really is the director's fault on what take they use and how they wanted it to come across. And I'm not saying I'm not taking anything away from the actor.

[00:27:21] She was I thought she did very, very well. And I think she did exactly what you're talking about. I also think that the director choosing to to enforce that and push that. I think I think that it is a group effort.

[00:27:36] But yes, I think she represented the character and someone I think by the end of it, it was obvious that we are supposed to like her. We are supposed to be like, Ma'am, she is the best. Yeah, I hope she stays that way.

[00:27:51] I can either conform to my anything. I know. All right. What's what's your next point? I will go with a lighter point because I feel like everything also have left feels a little heavier. I really enjoyed Matt this episode and especially the interaction with Matt

[00:28:15] and it's men, I believe, who's here. You know, I didn't really feel strongly about Matt's character last season. I mean, the actor was fine, but I didn't have big feelings about, you know, will this new actor be a good matter or not?

[00:28:34] But so far, I'm really liking him and something about the, you know, the more we're learning about this character of Matt. Here, I see a Chandler Bing from Friends a little bit. Like he just he's got that charisma. But like a little goofy about it, you know.

[00:28:55] And so I just felt like that was a really fun character. He seemed that whole scenes felt so jovial between the two of them, despite the fact that they were both prisoners being held in the tower. And so I just I enjoyed that.

[00:29:13] I'm glad we're getting more of men. I thought she was a really fun character. I think her, you know, seeing ability is really interesting and trying to peace out when they show you the snippets of what she's seeing,

[00:29:28] which obviously was a pretty big deal this episode where she saw. Definitely. Yeah, that was definitely a dark point. Yeah. So she saw Matt Stabrand, right? Is that what she saw? But it's like, like I said, I think last episode,

[00:29:48] you know, her visions aren't necessarily always showing something that actually happens or at least might not be right. If the baby she saw Rand holding was just the baby that he saw in that vision when he was talking to Ishamel.

[00:30:09] Yeah, it leaves a lot of sort of question marks to me as to what her visions necessarily mean. But up until that sort of dark point, I really enjoyed just their interaction. And I'm excited again. Here's, you know, more of, I guess, from the title,

[00:30:27] more of these friendships that are sort of forming. Right. So yeah. Yeah, no, like I did enjoy. I think it's Danol Finn. I did enjoy his his performance as Matt. Barney, I can't remember his last name, but Barney, who played Matt last season,

[00:30:48] he definitely provided a kind of a darker version of the character even before he before he took the dagger from Shadar Lagov. He was very down in the dumps and almost like depressed. And hey, you know, hey, I have a sense of obligation

[00:31:10] out of love to my sisters. But you know, he's always kind of looking for the easy way out or and but this Matt seems, as you say, a little bit lighter of heart. And the fact that he's locked in the White Tower,

[00:31:29] he's, you know, he's conducting the locking of his door and then hearing Leandron's footsteps as as he's walking as she's walking away. And then immediately digging into the sweet meats or sweet sorry, sweet pies or sweet sweet rolls or whatever it's called, sweet breads. That's what it was.

[00:31:47] Breads, I think. Yeah. And and then, you know, you can almost I don't know if he did or not, but you can almost picture him whistling. Yeah, as he was going over to knock or not knock it,

[00:32:00] but to tip over the cabinet and start his his mission again. You learn patience. You might spend. You know, he's been there for what? They she said he said five months last episode. I haven't touched that diagram in six months.

[00:32:15] I mean, so he was caught reasonably quickly after like he might have gotten to the tower before a green did and I gave it. So. Yeah, so I enjoyed him as well. I enjoyed Matt and I did.

[00:32:32] I did like he and men and maybe at some point or another, they will see each other again outside of the tower. But yeah, it was it was very like you did end on kind of that that that dark note

[00:32:48] where it looked like men was just falling over drunk. And she's just like I also really enjoyed the fact that Maxwell had no, I don't want to know what kind of shit's waiting for me. Yeah, that was honestly kind of impressive

[00:33:02] that he had the I think what would take some wisdom to be able to understand how negatively that could affect you and that that's not really something that he wanted to know. Right. I think this is the first time I've liked a mat scene enough

[00:33:21] that I wanted to see more Matt. Before I didn't dislike him, I just like didn't really care. Right. He's he was he he like said last season, he was he was kind of a dark character. He was like he wasn't somebody you were rooting for.

[00:33:38] He was just there. He's just kind of an asshole. And and I feel like what we've seen so far, we haven't seen him be the same type of character he was last season. But we also haven't seen him

[00:33:53] interact with anybody except for Leandron, who we know we don't like and or at least I don't like her and and men. So we will see. I'm looking forward to seeing more Matt as well. Awesome. Anything else? That's it. All right. All right, so my next point.

[00:34:18] I'm kind of up in the air because I kind of want to talk about Perrin and Elias and the the final scene are not the final scene, but the the final parents scene. The big battle right at the village.

[00:34:36] And so they parents parent in general is he's less of a like I kind of feel felt this way like when what you were talking about last episode where it's like get your wolf powers, do what you got to do and stop being a little bitch.

[00:34:57] Excuse me, not trying to be sexist or anything like that, but stop stop moping around and wondering what's happening to you and do something. I did like the fact that he came to Loyal's aid during the battle.

[00:35:12] And it was it was nice to see the two of them just start on Loyal in what Loyal looked like like a super scroll from Secret of Asia just literally like we kicked kick the soldier and flung them into a boat.

[00:35:28] And then the boat like the boat cracked with the force like it makes you go, oh, OK, so maybe you're not just builders, but they're they're battle as well. And but the battle scene in general. All right, so these are the people that came

[00:35:50] at the end of the very last scene of season one where they came onto the ships and they were getting a tidal wave and look like they were channeling and move their ships. And then we saw some.

[00:36:07] I don't know if they were gagged or they were just asked or what. But they we have some some very strong channelers here who just started effing people up and blowing, blowing people away. Not something we've seen outside of not something we've seen outside of Isidae.

[00:36:32] They have not taken the three oaths. They have not like these are coordinated. This is a weapon in battle to be used in battle. And we will use it to great effect. If the if our soldiers can't do the job, then

[00:36:48] you know, are kind of like we were talking about last season regarding the Isidae or rather Amalisa up at Faldara. It was basically like, OK, once the once we can't take care of it, we let the Isidae wipe the rest of Mount or excuse me,

[00:37:08] the channelers wipe the rest of them out. Now here you were talking about a relatively small village, right? Maybe maybe a couple hundred people. Maybe bigger than that, but I didn't think it was bigger than that. And but it seemed like the the Shinarians

[00:37:23] were were like kind of holding their own against the soldiers. And I do want to see some more of the the armor. I don't I only saw kind of glimpses of it. But then the reveal that Ishmael is there.

[00:37:44] You know, it looks like an advisor to whomever is in that Palaanquin. That was Lady Long Nails. Yeah, I'm going to call her X-23 from from the Wolverine stuff. So yeah, the two I actually went back and like paused it to see like are those her actual nails?

[00:38:09] Oh, no, those are like weapons. But then they were already long or something almost. Yeah, like they were like already long and then she like made them longer. And are they ready? Well, they'll have to be ready for what and who. And yeah, what is happening?

[00:38:27] All the questions. Yeah. So it reminded me very much of not Perseus from 300. The the emperor, I can't remember. Yeah. But you know, on this giant, giant, long platform, yeah, platform, I think, Palaanquin is a word. Yeah, I think that's it. And

[00:38:54] basically like a throne that people are carrying around. Yeah. And it makes me want to know more. And I'm I'm very much excited to see more to this story, not much answers. But we for the fact that we know that, you know, that

[00:39:14] one of the chosen, one of the forsaken is a is an advisor. It doesn't necessarily bode well for whatever their whatever their intentions are. Yeah. And who crucified the fade in that town? That's why I had all the questions about who was together because I was

[00:39:38] so gutter when they first got attacked by just the actual fighters from that army. I was like, oh, this is another group of people and they're not with the dark friends and they're also not with our friends. And maybe that's who crucified the fade up on the wall.

[00:39:59] But then once I realized that they were all part of that group with Ishmael and just wanted to confirm that I was right, that why can't I remember his name? Pat and Fane was also part of that group, that that means

[00:40:14] we still don't really have insight into who had that fade like nailed to the wall. Yeah. OK. Yeah. Absolutely. And it I mean, it looked like like they said they did it when it was still alive. But the fact that they're like opening up its mouth

[00:40:32] to look at all the teeth. I mean, would you not want to like do an autopsy on that thing? See like where its weak spots are, maybe maybe that's just no. Me who didn't go watch, watch, you know, somebody be crucified.

[00:40:45] I kept expecting that it was just going to like come awake. So like absolutely not. I did not want to do an autopsy on it. I was like, why are you touching its teeth? Like get away. It's going to wake up and attack you. So no, no.

[00:41:03] OK. You that was that was basically my point. You have anything, any other questions about that or any input? No, I mean, I totally still feel the same as just what you said that I'm just ready for Perrin to give into the wolf powers

[00:41:23] and just advance that like this episode, he was like asking the other the man that's helping them track. Yeah, Elias. Yeah, Elias. Like why are you doing this to me? And I'm like, what are you talking about? Like this weird stuff has been happening to you

[00:41:39] for much longer than you've known him. Like maybe not the visions, but I just want him to. I don't know. I want that to advance. I didn't want them to get captured by dark friends.

[00:41:50] I wanted, I'll be honest, I'm a little I'm a little frustrated with with Heimdall. I'm like, you could say literally anything. You could just be like, hey, man, like let's go have a conversation. Let's just go talk. This is there's some stuff that's been happening to you.

[00:42:09] I know because it happened to me too. And I had to learn how to deal with it. I think I said this last time just tell me stuff, period. Just explain, share your information. Don't don't be a douche. Yeah, just give me generic warnings.

[00:42:30] And the only other thing, I guess, when we're commenting on Pairan and all this would be I thoroughly enjoyed watching O'Noe fight. The whole fight scene was great. Like it was great to see, like you said, the gear really owning up.

[00:42:45] But I found continued to find O'Noe just absolutely delightful in all ways. And again, you know, another reason that the Pairan storyline, I don't completely dread going back to because we still get we still get some fun stuff there. So.

[00:43:05] All right. Well, if that is if you don't have anything else for that, we will have another little product break and we'll be back. All right. Well, come back everybody again. I really hope you enjoyed those ads and heard about some products that you're going to take home.

[00:43:20] So yeah, this time nothing really resonated with me. But maybe next time next time next time. Maybe maybe maybe Amazon will be listening to my phone the next time that I say something and really focus some ads on me. All right. So what was your last point, Veronica?

[00:43:39] I think my last point was all the sort of the big reveal with Leandron for me. So the big scene where I do notice a pattern where Nainave likes to follow people and then watch them weirdly from outside the door of wherever they're at.

[00:44:02] She did not really snickily like guess she's just a great up following people, not so great at like the end game of that. But yeah, I mean, that was a really hard, a really sad scene. Obviously, you know, we find out that

[00:44:22] you know, they set up in the previous scene that Leandron is, you know, much, much older than she looks. And so then you see her, you know, at first Nainave thinks that she is poisoning this sickly elderly gentleman in the bed.

[00:44:40] And then it comes out that she was actually trying to help him. And Leandron is furious that Nainave has caught her in this very vulnerable position because what we find out is that this is her son.

[00:44:56] So even though, you know, he looks like he could be her great grandfather because her aging process has slowed. She's having to go through the painful experience of seeing her son age and become sick. And, you know, she's not someone who wants to have vulnerabilities, I don't think.

[00:45:18] And she's not someone who lets herself experience really any outpouring of emotion in any other way besides anger, I think. And so, you know, it was really sad. It was sad that she was so angry.

[00:45:34] It was sad that even after she was able to reflect that what Nainave had told her was actually a real kindness to her. And I understand why in the moment, you know, she yelled at Nainave out of anger

[00:45:51] because she was in so much pain at being caught in her vulnerability and also pain at realizing that she had, you know, not been giving her son the most effective thing and she'd been leaving him in pain thinking that she hadn't.

[00:46:07] So I could understand her sort of anger in that moment. It made me sad that, you know, when she went to go get Nainave later, that there was no ability within her at this point to reflect and realize that Nainave had done her real kindness. It it.

[00:46:26] It made me just feel sad for her character that she could what didn't have the ability to do that. I don't think she could let herself that would again be like making herself vulnerable.

[00:46:37] So it was a big reveal, something I didn't know, you know, up until this episode, I didn't know that the eyeshadows, you know, could even be in a scenario where they're, you know, out living their loved ones in that way.

[00:46:51] And yeah, it was just it was sad that I think gave us insight into Leandra. And I don't know if it made me like her more, but it gave me a lot of compassion for her. I can see that. I can absolutely see that.

[00:47:11] I didn't have the compassion. I mean, I did in general. But I like her reactions and, you know, and I. Start thinking about, you know, I never thought about an eye said I having a child

[00:47:33] and, you know, if they ever take lovers or if they ever take who are not other eyes that I they if they ever take lovers like they're going to outlive them, they're going to have allegiance to a place that is not the White Tower.

[00:47:53] And and so that, you know, that makes it difficult. I mean, outside of, I guess, borders, you can you can sleep with your waters, but you can't. I mean, maybe you shouldn't have a husband, you know, back home or whatever. Yeah.

[00:48:09] Because it will split your loyalty, your loyalty should be to the tower. So yeah, that's another, I guess, question that I had about it. So is this like she's obviously hiding it because it's a vulnerability and he's sick.

[00:48:26] But is it something she's had to hide likely all along just that she's even had a child full stop because of sort of what you're describing like is there at least, I guess, in book or is there rules against them having children? There are guidelines.

[00:48:46] I I'm not going to. There are guidelines. I'm just going to say that. OK. OK. There are guidelines that are specifically stated that you can read them. But but this it's it's funny.

[00:49:03] You know, last season, we were told Leandron, I know about the man you meet in wherever. Oh my God, yes. But I absolutely was thinking it was a lover. And as someone from the Red Aja who takes no waters and

[00:49:22] and is basically, I don't want to say hates men, but that's kind of the impression that they give. They're just out to to hunt down men who can channel that's almost like the greatest defense is that at one point or another,

[00:49:37] you had a relationship with a man and you bore a child and you are continuing to care for that child, even though they have grown sick. I don't know how elderly, but it may be the the disease or the illness that is doing that to him.

[00:49:58] Yeah. But yeah. So I thought I did enjoy that scene in the fact that it was a reveal. And and man, that was a strong right cross, maybe overhanded right cross, because that was that was hardcore. She got made or maybe was it a backhand?

[00:50:19] I can't remember. But she got in the area really, really well. And but yes, you're right. And he was absolutely giving her the answer to how to eat his suffering. But I think you're absolutely correct that she couldn't let any of her

[00:50:39] and any of her vulnerabilities, especially to this novice who she's been trying to groom. I mean, she lost all the ground that she had gained with 98. Maybe maybe she had convinced her like, hey, one one situation like the words that I got around, I will kill you.

[00:51:00] Get out of here before something I do something we both regret. Yeah. And but yeah, it was I thought it was a pretty powerful scene. But yeah, that was good. Yeah. And it's continued to that theme of you know, last episode, Landry and also talked

[00:51:24] talked explicitly about tapping into anger. And yeah, that is her approach to almost every situation we see her in is to react in anger. It seems to be that your hate guide you. You know, I think she sees any other path of emotion as a weakness. And right.

[00:51:48] It's unfortunate for her and those around her. Right. OK, well, I will go ahead and get to my last point. And I'm going to go ahead and go with Rand and some of the some of the things that we got to find out.

[00:52:08] So I know so he ran is in Carhine and he is has taken a lover himself. And he is, you know, the whole Wolverine adage, you know, I drink to forget. And so Selene, who is the inkeeper or landlord or whatever,

[00:52:35] you know, that they are kind of sort of together, but neither of them are with the person they want to be. And sometimes that's sometimes that works. And that's no judgment here. Hey, you manage your your emotions and your your sense of being.

[00:52:55] However, you can to make it through the day. But he is working at a mental hospital. And he is going and he's working with this elderly. And Carhine and I think it's he's a car heine and soldier and who was a blade master like his father.

[00:53:19] And he's learning about the the forms from him and what they are either what they're called or what the good reactions would be to to to an attack or whatever. And you can really I thought that that the that the presentation of Rand in this

[00:53:44] like the kindness that he showed to the old soldier and the not not not instance, but just the the the aggression that he showed towards the the stereotypical shitty attendance. And I thought those were like, hey, you're like, hey,

[00:54:06] you know, I'm I'm starting to root for this guy before you like last last season, he was kind of a kind of a selfish prick. But but he's he's kind of kind of winning winning me over. He's being a good person.

[00:54:20] I mean, except for the whole, you know, accidentally using said into to murder the attendant when he apparently tried to attack him. I'm pretty sure he killed him. Didn't they say they say he suffered a he suffered a horrible accident,

[00:54:37] but it looked to me like he used daggers of air to to kill the guy. He appeared dead to me. I don't know that we have 100 percent confirmed, but yeah, that was my interpretation as well. He looked he looked stabbed and bloody to me.

[00:54:54] But again, it was also in the dark. So not a hundred percent. I think it was shaking, you know, as Rand was walking away. But Rand has also got some either dreams or flashbacks. He he kind of comes to

[00:55:12] in one of the opening scenes and then a queen is on the on the ground and he's got the play sword and. So like that's not that's not great. And so he's working in this hospital.

[00:55:31] He kills this guy and then we find out, at least I found out I didn't realize it. I didn't know beforehand, but the reason that he has attacked this guy was to take his place so that he could get close to Lugain.

[00:55:46] And I really liked Lugain last year. Well, when we watch the first season, I really enjoyed his his character and kind of his his strong moral code. You know, hey, I there's always there's always room at someone at my side.

[00:56:10] I'm not going to kill someone just because these voices are telling me to the the the mental fortitude and moral fortitude that it that it takes to to do that. I liked Lugain and I'm starting to like Rand a little bit more.

[00:56:26] And I I don't know how Rand will possibly convince Lugain to help him. Even if it's just a matter of talking, but we also don't know how unstable Lugain is. That's true. I yeah, I was not expecting that either.

[00:56:50] That that was the end game there for him to get into see Lugain. So that was a big reveal. I was I was definitely not expecting that. And I wish that I had that was not something that I knew was coming. And I was like, oh, that's awesome.

[00:57:08] But wait, let's see. What is he hoping to learn? I just don't know. But yeah, so that was that was my last point, Rand. Yeah, Rand and Rand's Rand storyline. I liked it and I liked the the fact that he's he's making friends in Carahein.

[00:57:30] He is, you know, he goes to see the guards every day and he goes into the into the thing. We did get more about Rand looking like an omen and I yield man. And there was apparently an I yield war decades ago where the the I yield.

[00:57:50] We already watched a pregnant I yield go and F up some some soldiers. And that was that was mother. Yeah. And so I guess that was the war that he's referencing, right? Is the war? Yeah, 20 years ago. And yeah, I mean, it might have been.

[00:58:11] But we also don't know. We also know that I yield man are attacked just because they're different. As from brain spring where they he was put up on the cage and filled with arrows, I guess he was filled with arrows and then put up in the cage

[00:58:27] where they met the dark where Matt and Rand. All right, right. OK. Then Matt or Tom and Matt took him down and then buried him. Yeah, so yeah, but Rand Rand's in his story was was my last point.

[00:58:41] I again am looking forward to to hearing more about that. Same, I feel like they in contrast to Leandron's storyline, which is just anger. I feel like Rand really this whole episode was a lot of dynamic facets to his character

[00:59:03] and sort of setting up that he is both good and could trip over into bad or what is bad, I guess, but it's like killing someone, I guess, might be a matter of your choices. Right? Great. Yeah. Ishmael said, yeah, what is a monster?

[00:59:23] Like, do I look evil to you? Do I look like a monster? It's all a matter of perspective. Really? All right. So on to notes. What do you got? I think the only thing that we haven't touched on

[00:59:41] that I had sort of big in my notes was just that. Ishmael Ishmael, am I saying? I think I'm saying that correctly. You know, I thought he was the dark one and we, you know, very conclusively this episode was said by he is not.

[00:59:59] He is the is it the lieutenant? Is that correct? Correct. What's that? He was the dark one's left tenant. No, lieutenant. Lieutenant. OK. So I, well, I. I personally heard or pronounce it that way and I was like, I heard it. I heard it weird too.

[01:00:16] And I was like, OK, maybe I heard wrong. But no, yeah, lieutenant. All right. His top lieutenants. Yeah. So we still have not seen the dark one. But basically Ishmael is gathering together forces in support of the dark one seems to be what is happening. Yeah. OK.

[01:00:40] So is that that all your notes? Yeah. Yeah, that was I think the only thing that I had that was really stood out to me that we didn't touch on. Gotcha. OK. All right. Well, I've got I've got a bunch of small things. Yeah.

[01:00:56] So Rand and his will just say violent love. Yeah, when you're in pain, maybe a little bit of little bit domination is. You know, it's just just the care you're looking for. I mean, as long as everybody's OK with it, I guess. As long as Celine is like

[01:01:20] you help me remember and I'll help you forget that. And yeah, we're all good. But we also it's funny I said domination because we have the men's line to Matt about so it's a sex thing. That's what they want you for.

[01:01:37] Like, oh, no, no, I mean, Landry could get into domination. All right. So we rain and land push pushing land away over and over and over again and just continuing to end that at the end. You know, I thought we were in this together.

[01:01:56] I thought we were equals and and she's like, we were never equals. Do you have the sense that what she's saying, the truth that he is hearing is the opposite of what she's saying? That's what I wanted to believe. I think it's it's hard to know. Yeah.

[01:02:20] And maybe he wasn't, you know, maybe she was the stronger one. But I think she knew he was the maybe the one who's truer of heart as far as their dedication to each other and sort of, I don't know, means so far

[01:02:36] he's been a really stand up guy across the board. I mean, she also knows the depths to which she will sink in order to achieve her cause. And if she's like, you know, she can't well, can't she's not willing to say, you were always better than me

[01:02:53] because he'll argue and then he'll fight for her more. We were never equals is the thing that cuts him. This is her kicking. This is her throwing the rocks at Nymeria. And yeah. And to get him away to I think to save him because she is

[01:03:14] like and that she said something about I will transfer your bond to to a Lana by force, if necessary, if you don't go, which to me the I am going to force somewhere I'm going to pass your bond, your connection to me to someone else.

[01:03:35] That's like forcing someone to or picking someone else's it's like forced marriage, forced marriage. Right. Yeah, it just feels but it's being you're being forced by your spouse and do a marriage with someone else. I also don't understand how she would do that if she's cut off.

[01:03:53] If the bond isn't active right now and she's cut off. I mean, I guess, you know, maybe the other can maybe maybe a lot of him. Yeah, maybe. But it just seemed. Yeah, I don't I don't know. Yeah, I just felt sad for him. And like, I agree.

[01:04:11] I think most of what she was saying was was to get him to leave. But I'm so sad. But if he's going back to the White Tower, I do feel play hated that if that's where he's going,

[01:04:25] that he'll be close to Nineve and I would like to see them back in each other's presence. Ninevees having having her own struggles. Yeah, so she's going to need she's going to need land there. Let me see. So yeah, the the way right where is more in going?

[01:04:49] I don't know the docs. She was going to the docs. But then at the end, I thought she was going because they were they were collectively going to the tower and Alana was no, Alana came from the tower.

[01:05:01] Right. So she kept saying to I keep forgetting her friends named Baron, is that a Baron? They both kept saying we're going. We're all going to the White Tower, but it seemed like they were basically speaking almost and trying to speak in code

[01:05:18] to one another, like feeling it out of like, are we going to the White Tower? Aren't we? That's how I was sort of interpreting it like it just seems strange. And so, yeah, it did seem like that land is going to the White Tower with Alana, but that.

[01:05:35] There is not. And they're going somewhere else, going somewhere else to seek. I think to try to seek out Rand. Go find Rand. I think that's. What I got. Gotcha. OK. All right. Next note is the the whole vision that Perrin had of

[01:05:56] the the family eating dinner and then being attacked. The fact that he didn't recognize that he walked into a slaughterhouse. Yeah. And then when he finally came to you, he's just like, what the what is going on?

[01:06:09] He's like talking to the people and that was pretty pretty brutal. Yeah. I'm kind of glad they didn't show more of it. I feel like Game of Thrones would have. And yeah, I was glad it was just flies. Yeah, it was still gross, but.

[01:06:26] And then that giant fish, the lion fish that the oil was talking about. So that's it. That is a big ass fish. All right. So what else do I got? We talked about Elaine and the Queen. Nine Nave, I guess we didn't really touch that much just on.

[01:06:46] You know, basically her hearing only part of what Eguin was saying through the door and obviously feeling very, very alone and then being forced to go do the arches. Yeah, the arches is actually that was the last thing. The the arches.

[01:07:03] So she's going to go through the arches in order to become accepted. Yeah, and there I guess that's something that we. We also did not talk about. I can't remember if it was last episode or this episode, but so there are

[01:07:19] there are three levels of of Isidae personnel. There are novices. There are accepted who was the the girl who was healing the little girl with break bone fever. And then there are Isidae and there are possibly years between achieving one and achieving the other.

[01:07:42] OK, so they are trying to get her through things faster because they need strong fighters in their ranks, essentially. But it seems like Leandron is pushing that to be the case, even though she is not made nearly advances that Eguin has or any of the other novices.

[01:08:04] So I would imagine that with that, with becoming an accepted Nineyave is going to suffer being alone even more. Yeah. Kind of like the somebody who has who has toiled for a decade in order to become accepted.

[01:08:24] This girl has been here for five months and has yet to to actually do anything worthwhile, but she's going to go through the arches and and become be treated with the same be given the same responsibilities as someone who has toiled for years or decades. Yeah.

[01:08:44] The nine years secret passage out of the tower. I thought that was a little silly, like she was not very stealthy at all. She left the door to the secret passage open. Like, what are you doing? Like, I think it's a master tracker.

[01:09:01] I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, stealthy like. It was it was really I was it very much made me go. Come on, like you're going to a place you just watched her open up a secret door and then you're going to leave

[01:09:20] the secret door open, but come on. And then she's wearing a white dress where you stick out like a sore thumb because everybody else is at least in dark colors, if not dirty themselves. Come on. Yeah. So that was the last of my notes.

[01:09:38] Yeah, I think that's got mine too. All right. Well, since this time, as I said before, we're not doing news until we won't do news until after episode three. And then we'll also do some some news or we'll do some we'll

[01:09:57] we'll compile all the listener feedback and feedback. But that's our show. Thanks for listening, everybody. If you'd like to write in or record a message and send it in, you can email it to to talk at podcast. And we can check out our Facebook page at

[01:10:17] facebook.com slash podcastica. We're also on Twitter at podcastica, which is now X. It's not even Twitter, is it? Oh, yeah. Now we're now on X. We just got X punk. Sorry. All right. And you know, go check out all those sources to find out

[01:10:40] what's going on podcastica. We are not going to re-list at all because we just talked to you guys two days ago about it. But check it out. There's a lot of exciting other shows hitting the feed from podcast. Yeah, yeah.

[01:10:54] A lot of good stuff and but we'll have a season two starting this week, I think. Oh, but next time on this podcast, we will have time season two, episode three, What Might Be? Thanks for listening, everybody. All right, that's our show and.

[01:11:13] Let the dragon right again on the winds of time. Thanks for listening.