15: "Eyes Without Pity" (The Wheel of Time S2E6)

[00:00:00] Hey everybody, welcome to our podcast. I'm Greg. I'm Veronica. And I'm Ben. And this is The Wheel of Time Cast. This week we're covering The Wheel of Time season 2 episode 6 Eyes Without Pity. And I'll tell

[00:00:35] you what, we definitely had some Eyes Without Pity this episode. But regarding those eyes, Veronica, you want to hit us with the summary? Yeah, I feel like maybe they gave us a tiny, tiny bit more than

[00:00:49] they normally do this week, which is not saying much. But so Amazon summary says, Rand makes a risky alliance and a queen gathers her strength to confront the horror of her circumstances. I agree. This is actually like more in-depth and more applicable than several of the other ones

[00:01:09] that we've gotten. It's a little bit more involved than the shit happens. Yeah, please enjoy. People walked a lot and there was much traveling occurring. How'd you guys like this one? Maybe

[00:01:24] that's it. How did you guys appreciate this episode? Yeah, that's a little better. I don't know if like is the good word for this particular episode. You guys aren't into torture? I was very impressed by several circumstances or several performances this episode. But yeah,

[00:01:44] this was like The Empire Strikes Back of Wheel of Time. Like everything just ends on a downer. Yeah, pretty tough. Pretty tough to watch. I think after going through Game of Thrones, I think I'm a little less sensitive to these. A little inured to it, yeah. Desperate situations.

[00:02:04] But yeah, I mean, I just think the actress did a fantastic job of showing that breakdown of her spirit and yeah, pretty powerful. Yeah, I agree. I also want to make note too that this

[00:02:17] is the first time it's all three of us. Oh yeah, that's a good point. If you have not heard the three of us, we are not in fact just me and one other person doing very good impressions.

[00:02:31] Yeah, I said that last week and now the cat's out of the bag. This is not Veronica doing a spot on me impression or the other way around. We are two different people. All right, so like I

[00:02:41] know that we have maybe not in this particular show, but I've kind of gotten a little bit shit on before for not giving like a general idea of what's going on in the episode. But I feel

[00:02:53] like that we had seven or eight different stories going on and giving a breakdown of that would just take, I'd take fucking 10 minutes. So I'm not going to do that. So what we're going to do

[00:03:06] is move straight into Veronica's three questions. So Veronica, welcome back. Glad to have you back and what do you got for us? Okay, well yeah, I'm really glad to be back. I'm excited to have

[00:03:16] three hosts and to finally get to chat with Ben. So yeah, this should be a fun episode, I think. All right, my questions. The first one and I think maybe you guys may have talked about

[00:03:29] this last season when I obviously wasn't here. I just didn't remember but can you tell me a little bit more about Ogears? How common are these? They seem to be this sort of like,

[00:03:41] last episode when I wasn't here that it seemed like, well, hey, I did this really bad thing, but I brought back an Ogear and that seems to be this big ordeal. And I just wanted to understand

[00:03:52] how rare they are. And I guess if there's non-spoilery things you can tell us just in general about them. So I'm going to defer to go to Amazon and if you look at the origins,

[00:04:08] the Ogears longing from last season. And I have not seen that they've done any more of the origins this season, but the Ogears longing gave some detail regarding Ogear. So basically, they are kind of like in the world, like Lord of the Rings. They're effectively like elves,

[00:04:30] like they have their own societies. It's not like there's a dozen of them in the world, but you're talking of a small percentage from humans to Ogear. So you're talking maybe, let's just say that the population of this land mass is five million people,

[00:04:52] I don't know if that's accurate or not a zero concept, but you're talking maybe like a half a percent of that Ogear. So maybe 50,000 in the entire land mass. And so, but they are very long-lived and they typically do not leave their stettings and

[00:05:11] their stettings are there, typically over like groves, like groves of giant trees. And that's where there's almost like an aura in a stetting that an Ogear, if they leave, which almost like hobbits, like they don't normally leave. But when they do, they have

[00:05:30] a longing, like it's literally a physically long physical longing to get back to a setting. And during the breaking of the world, they like the settings were lost. And so many Ogear died from the longing after a number of years away from the stettings.

[00:05:48] And so they are not nearly as, they're not nearly as common as people, but they are also very of a very long lived race who has this, one of their most well known abilities is tree singing, which we saw an example of in this episode.

[00:06:11] I've always kind of seen Ogears as a, because you hear the term Ogear and it sounds almost like ogre. And to me, an Ogear, to me, the way I've always seen them is kind of like a combination

[00:06:25] of ogre and elf in everything that you said, Greg, and that they're very long lived, they're very intelligent, they kind of keep to themselves, they're very tuned into nature. But at the same time, unlike an elf and similar to an ogre is their size.

[00:06:39] And strength, right? I think they're size and strength. How strong he is, right? Yeah. Interesting. So it's almost like a combination of the two character, of the two kind of races of character. Yeah, one more thing that I will add is

[00:06:54] that one of the things, and I think, I think our loyal mentioned it back in like episode five of season one, he talked about you humans are so hasty because a human's life is only

[00:07:08] 60, 70, 80 years. And in Ogear's life, he was young at 300. And he's barely able to get out of his parents' house at 300 years old or something like that. So... So that makes me want to throw his ogre, elf and ent. Because aunts always are saying,

[00:07:30] don't be so hasty to the hobbits. That's very true, actually. It's a pretty good comparison. And like the commune with the trees and things. Well, that makes me, I'm going to go watch that after the episode, the Ogear's longing. And that sort of makes me, I mean, obviously,

[00:07:45] it's loyal, right? Is a pretty lovable character. But I think sort of knowing that, like, I guess it seems like their race has a pretty tragic history with the loss of their homes just sort of makes me like his character even more.

[00:08:00] Okay, we can do my next question. So I just wrote down to ask you about the black Ogear. So that obviously came up more and more. And I think maybe just in general, like I'm still trying to wrap my head completely around structure of the ice to die.

[00:08:16] And so maybe black Ogear, but maybe just talking about Ogear in general and sort of reminding me of that. Yeah. And then there was also, I guess, the sitters. I don't know. I think there was a lot

[00:08:27] of mention of different structures of the power hierarchy that I'm still, I guess, not being a book reader. I don't know if I fully grasped. That's actually a really good question. You want to take some of this Ben?

[00:08:41] No, I'll leave it to you because you probably know, you're probably, and I'm not saying that because I'm, I don't know. I'm saying that because as somebody who's only again, this is uncharted territory for me now,

[00:08:53] you are so much more in tune with the history and the lore behind these books. Okay. All right. So I know a couple of episodes ago, we talked about Moiraine and her,

[00:09:05] you know, what her deal was and why to me it wasn't surprising that she was willing to, you know, murder horses and give up that horse trader or horse handler or whatever for landfear to

[00:09:19] murder or disfigure or whatever. And I mentioned that she was the blue Ajat. So if you think of it as a comparison to our government, you look at it as a, if you say, hey, here's our government

[00:09:39] in pairing with that something that is, we'll just say in parallel, it's not directly, you know, directly involved. So Ajahs are effectively, we'll just say that each, each party, right? So it's like a seven party system. And there is a,

[00:09:59] each Ajah has its own purpose, right? Browns is history, graze is mediation, whites is law, blues is justice or purpose. Yeah, right. There you go. Reds is to protect the from men who can channel yellows as healing and I don't, which one am I missing? Green is

[00:10:23] green. Green was the battle Ajah. Yeah. Yeah. So and green is fighting. And the way that their government is set up is that three of each of the Ajahs are elected as sitters. So the Ajahs don't necessarily, so basically it's like, Hey, they're the house of

[00:10:42] representatives or the, yeah, house of representatives is good because there's two representatives for each state. So there are three sitters for each Ajah. And they each go up and they discuss, argue, work together to make a decision. And then

[00:10:58] the Amarlin who is raised from one of the Ajahs, but then once she becomes the Amarlin is raised from one, but is now of all of them, all and none. She's supposed to cast off all of

[00:11:12] her previous loyalties and act in the best interest of the white tower. That's kind of, does that answer your question? I know we talked about, they did talk about sitters and sitters is something that like they don't really address. Effectively it's a representative of

[00:11:31] the Ajah in the hull of the tower. I was just going to say it's kind of similar to, keeping it in government terms, the same way Greg did, it's kind of like, think of like there's

[00:11:40] the Department of Education, the Department of Defense, the Department of, that's similar to what the different colors represent when it comes to the Ajah and the white tower. When does the Amarlin like, is it till death? Is there some sort of like

[00:11:57] reelection system or do they step down? Can they be thrown down? That's a good question. And I do not have an answer for you. Although if you compare it to, I believe that they're supposed to be for life, but there are circumstances in which like,

[00:12:23] for example, in Star Wars and like the prequels, they talked about, we have a vote of no confidence and we can have the speaker removed. It's the same idea. You say overthrown,

[00:12:38] but like that would be like a mutiny or an insurrection as opposed to a like legally removing them. Right. And in regards to the an earlier point that you made too about the Black Ajah,

[00:12:52] the Black Ajah was rumored, although it's been shown to be true at this point, they basically instead of politics or knowledge or power, they serve the shadow. Okay. So they are channellers who serve the shadow and our dark friend. Right. Yeah, Black Ajah specifically, you say channellers and

[00:13:12] this is maybe nitpicky, but specifically Isidae, people who are a part of the tower and are also dark friends. Okay. So my last question is actually still related to the Isidae and I

[00:13:28] don't think I asked you this before, but what is the actual significance of the rings that the Isidae wear? Like they obviously seem special and when they die, you return them to that, you know,

[00:13:42] goblin of fire. But yeah, what's the significance? Do they hold power in the rings or is it just sort of like a sheriff's badge? Yeah, it's a it's a it's it's there's nothing that has to do

[00:13:56] with actual power. They are not talismans. I mean, I guess you could just say they're talismans, but they're not like actually magically imbued objects. They are they are very specifically

[00:14:07] this this type of ring is only held by an Isidae. They only earn it after they have earned the shawl or whatever you like become an Isidae and it tells you the point being is and I think

[00:14:23] it goes along with what Leander was talking about last episode where she was saying that, you know, we have to appear meek or people will try to tear us down. It was a matter of, hey,

[00:14:37] you guys have to show that you are a part of this now they will some some people some groups like the Children of the Light would would they come down specifically on Isidae and they,

[00:14:48] you know, take those those rings as as trophies. But the average person it the White Tower commands a some some modicum of respect and some modicum of oh hey I need to help you know if you

[00:15:03] go to an end and you're wearing the ring. Oh okay well this is someone who is versed you know this is a high person right this is they're not nobility but they are part of a respected institution.

[00:15:16] All right cool or basically a badge like you put it. Yeah, you know yeah yeah that's that's a good a good way to put it. Sort of a symbol of their legitimacy as an Isidae. Yeah,

[00:15:28] yep yeah cool all right well I think those are my three unbook learned questions. The Isidae rings are the ring of are like the ring of the Schwartz. Okay well in that case we'll go ahead and and take a short break

[00:15:45] and and get back to us when we come back we'll head into our points. We have returned from those amazing ads once again. Ad break. And I feel like like last week I might have subscribed to something that I just don't remember what it was

[00:16:05] but it was something from those wonderful ads. Happens to me all the time man. All right so we are moving into our hot you know where actually this might go a little

[00:16:16] bit long because all three of us are going to have three this time but we're moving to our we'll call them highlights again don't know if highlights is the right word for this episode but

[00:16:27] you know the things that we want to talk about Veronica how about you go first. I'm going to start out on a more positive note and my first point was just I thought there

[00:16:37] were some really cool uses and insights into use of the power this week and so I just wanted to sort of like reference each of those where I thought it was cool channeling.

[00:16:51] And so you know try not to get too much into the story stuff because I know the details might be in some of your all's points but the first was just getting to see sort of the way that the

[00:17:03] Shan Chan and their Demane and Sol Dam relationship works and so we got to just see a little glimpse of that when the Sol Dam had Eguin use her power to channel through her and burn that tree and I

[00:17:21] thought was pretty just pretty cool like watching it you know slowly seeing her power like reach in and seeing I feel like Eguin really for the first time really feel like she had a harness on her power

[00:17:35] and watching the tree start boiling and then burst into flames I thought was really fun and cool. You know I still like I still go back to what I started this season with that I don't love

[00:17:49] like the CGI of the power like sometimes it feels a little cartoony but I think they're doing the best they can to show us how this works and feels and I think it's still the only thing that bothers

[00:18:01] me about the show but that's I feel like that's a common complaint for me across shows like sometimes the CGI even when it's the best they could do just pulls me out of it so I didn't like love all

[00:18:14] the CGI but if I could let that go and just be excited that we were seeing sort of these impressive uses of the power like I really enjoyed that. Let me let me just cut in I also thought the CGI specifically of the tree burning was not great.

[00:18:33] I was like okay yeah trying to stay positive like I agree but like if I could let that go and just like enjoy what was happening I still like I did think it was cool so I don't want to just

[00:18:46] like completely crap on the CGI. I mean specifically the burning of the tree I think that the way that they're representing the power and the pulling and moving it from place to place or like I'll tell you

[00:18:59] I'm sure you're gonna get to it but Rhyma and what she was doing in the battle was like whoo I thought that was excellently done but yes very specifically the tree I was not a fan.

[00:19:10] Was I just not paying attention because I didn't think it was bad at all. I mean I'm not saying I thought it was like amazing CGI but it didn't it wasn't so bad that

[00:19:21] it took me out of the scene. Yeah like that maybe I'm sensitive to it maybe that particular thing just bothered me I don't know. It was kind of like the walking dead deer that you know like oh

[00:19:35] god you like the rest of it is so good and then you know this deer is just like ridiculously bad. I don't know if I go so far to put it with the walking dead deer like I'll give it a pass on that.

[00:19:48] I do think I'm sensitive to it Ben like I feel like this is common for me across a lot of these shows that I love so much. I just have a hard time like the most recent house of

[00:19:59] the dragon like the scenes everyone was so excited to see the dragons like I didn't love like it just pulled me out because it looked cheesy to me but like if I could let go of

[00:20:10] that I loved seeing our characters beyond dragons right like that's cool. I get that. So I'm definitely like a harsh critic when it comes to CGI and I did try I've mostly let that go in

[00:20:21] the show and just embraced and enjoyed what they're showing us instead of like being critical of exactly how they showed it. I mean I have seen some bad CGI in television and anything that I saw

[00:20:36] in this week's Wheel of Time didn't even come close to some bad CGI has I have seen so it didn't it didn't take me out of it at all but I can I can see it if you're sensitive to that kind of stuff.

[00:20:48] Okay so I guess I'll jump then to the other my other cool use of the power and it's just exactly what Greg said but I mean I was I was excited to watch it the second time when Rima

[00:21:00] was literally like twisting and folding up the what are they called the handlers the Sildom with the Shanchan like it was I think that maybe has been the coolest use of the power

[00:21:14] that I've seen I feel like it feels like they're continuing to sort of up the ante of what's possible like I think it was last week I guess that land fear just like exploded somebody's head

[00:21:27] which was pretty cool but I thought this was way cooler the way she was just so angry and literally just like folding a person up she pretzels if you're wild yeah and I thought that was interesting

[00:21:41] too coming from a healer Aja I was like I didn't even think about that I'm like this yeah she is not healing this this sad but like but one of the things that one of the things that people

[00:21:54] who know the body very well by healing they know how to inflict pain they know how to stop people's concentration they know pressure points you know you can use that knowledge for good or ill and here

[00:22:08] she was very much ill yeah it was wild I loved it and even just the way they built that whole scene up and had it cut in with some of the stuff going on with the Gwain like I just feel

[00:22:23] like made it really intense and I feel like the music this episode for me was really more pronounced than it normally is like I don't feel like I always notice soundtracks but like I don't know

[00:22:36] they really built that scene nicely for me and combined with the cool stuff she was doing just I loved it yeah the the intercutting between uh a Gween and and and the battle was like absolutely just built the tension like maybe they were happening at different times but

[00:22:55] like you didn't I didn't feel that way it was really really well done yeah agree completely okay so then the very last thing under the cool use is a power was just I think this is the first time we've

[00:23:07] seen the immensity of rand's power revealed um I mean he was just about to like bomb I felt like he was just going to explode like it was wild um and the way that uh the false dragon I keep

[00:23:25] forgetting low gain the way that he said you know with that much power you can do anything was was pretty cool so I'm excited like we're seeing more and more the power of our characters

[00:23:37] revealed and I'm excited to see what that all builds to and you know we're on episode six so we've got two more episodes so I'm hoping we get even more examples of that but

[00:23:51] I am very disappointed by the the length of of the season because I really want to see another episode or two well it's the same length as last season I thought it was nine last season

[00:24:01] no it was eight no eight okay eight episodes last season too okay yeah I agree though I feel like I'm going to be left disappointed and wanting more but I guess that's that's a good way for a season

[00:24:15] to end right well I mean and that kind of ties into what I talked about last week too is I feel like they spent too much time in the beginning the first half of this season reintroducing us

[00:24:25] to characters and it takes away from more story they could have given us this season before it got to that let me be very clear we only get six weeks of Wheel of Time because they drop

[00:24:39] three episodes and then it's five more weeks we only get six weeks of actually talking about this and then we wait two years to watch to watch the next the next series so it was uh it's

[00:24:52] I just if they had drawn it out a little bit now maybe they would have lost viewers because they use those first three as a setup but I just want more I feel like season three let's just

[00:25:04] let's reformat the podcast and talk about instead of every episode we'll discuss every 20 minutes sounds good so every episode will be three podcasts will be three episodes of the podcast you just have to not watch it for an entire six months because that's how long it'll take

[00:25:21] yeah we'll stretch it out instead of six weeks it'll be three months we'll stretch it out perfect Veronica that you good yeah that was it all right Ben what you got for the first point

[00:25:33] so I had I have two points and I'm going to discuss them both and I was going to go I was going to go into the my point on the Saddam but now that Rand has been mentioned I feel

[00:25:45] like I need to jump on to this one while it's fresh in my head I'm trying to figure something out with Rand again Veronica now we're we're into where I was very tuned in in season one where I'd have not

[00:25:58] read all the books like I guess so now we're in uncharted territory for me as well but what's different for me than you is I know a lot of the the history already you're coming in this

[00:26:10] completely fresh that said I'm trying to figure out something with Rand and I don't know maybe talking about this will help me figure it out I'm trying to determine whether or not Rand is a

[00:26:25] very impressionable b incredibly gullible or c both because it seems like he is getting information from different people and he can't decide on the path to take if that makes sense he's getting advice and guidance from moraine he's getting advice and

[00:26:52] guidance if you call it that from eichmail or ishmael however I noticed landfare pronounced it completely differently than I've been pronouncing it ish email ish mail yeah um he's getting getting guidance from landfare he's he's reunited with Matt in this episode that's another one I don't

[00:27:15] know if he if Rand knows what he's doing if that makes sense I feel like he's getting guidance from three or four different places and even he can't decide what is the right path to take

[00:27:31] but no the answer to your question is no he doesn't know what he's doing I mean he's a small town boy right like yeah he's all new to him he's he's a he's a small town kid

[00:27:44] who has like we talk about or like in dogma they talked about Jesus being told at 13 that he was the son of god and then you didn't hear from him for however many years and like

[00:27:58] but hey you he's being told that the fate of the world rests on your shoulders you found out six months ago or seven months ago that one you can channel two you're the dragon reborn three that the

[00:28:12] the weight of the world is literally on your shoulders and the people that you care about are all being threatened by people who are going to uh so he you're right he has zero concept

[00:28:25] of what he's doing but he's taking bits and pieces of these things from from individuals that are pushing their own agendas and he does not play the game of house as well he is absolutely just like

[00:28:41] okay so if I how do I keep my friends safe how do I keep more okay Moirae's trying to help me so I want to keep her safe so I have to leave her because Lynn feared said that she'd kill her

[00:28:51] um but uh I also know that Ishmael has a gween because Lanfear told me assuming that Lanfear told me the truth but if there's a chance that she's telling the truth I have to go do what I can

[00:29:04] to save her and then Matt oh I've got Matt well I I I know that sometimes I can't trust that Matt is going to do the right thing and if he doesn't show up within the amount of time that I've

[00:29:16] allotted I need to leave even if I'm waiting a little bit longer I have to my friends are depending on me and I think that his main focus is saving the people that he knows he can save or he thinks

[00:29:31] that he can save if he can take action to do something he's willing to do it and the the concepts that that Moirae gives to him she doesn't reveal it doesn't seem like she reveals

[00:29:45] a ton of plan it's not like hey I want you to train with Loghain so that you can learn this this this and this so that we can fight and do whatever she's she's trying to keep him safe or at least alive

[00:29:58] from moment to moment and she doesn't give him anything so he doesn't have anything on his own he's only got what people tell him yeah well because even in addition to the sources that I mentioned you know I mentioned Moirae and I mentioned Lanfer and I mentioned Aishmael

[00:30:15] I mentioned Matt like Loghain is another one like that is causing an influence in there right it's it's it's getting confusing even for me as a viewer as to what is he who is he actually

[00:30:28] listening to because I think he's just as confused as I am as a viewer to be completely upfront and even so even so much so because some of these influence are very clearly with

[00:30:41] their own agenda as you mentioned Lanfer for example I have this in my note but I'll mention it now because it kind of ties in the dream sequence that Rand has where he sees everybody has been

[00:30:52] all of his friends have been killed Aishmael comes up and you know approaches him and says this is what is going to be Lanfer comes in and sends Aishmael away and it makes me question

[00:31:02] okay was Aishmael really there or was this part of Lanfer's thing did she make it seem like Aishmael was there just so she could brush him off and make Rand trust her more that was my that was my

[00:31:16] question I didn't think that it was actually Aishmael okay I'm glad I'm not the only one that picked up on that yeah I mean I totally hear what you're saying I actually I kind of like

[00:31:27] how often and I think some of this is like obviously if you're a book reader you're not as in this headspace but I like that I don't always know like I felt like Leandron until the reveal really had me

[00:31:41] sort of guessing all along Lanfer has me sort of guessing on where her allegiances lie um and I think it's like a little refreshing for one of the characters I'm still guessing about

[00:31:52] but it's not because he's like deeply plotting it's because he's just he's just confused and I think it makes sense if you think about you know how quickly his life has changed from being like a sheep

[00:32:04] herder in a small town to hey you're the dragon reborn and no one's really telling you a whole lot of information um and you're just trying to figure it out I yeah I don't hate it I guess

[00:32:18] um that he's confused I think it keeps his character redeemable while you're still guessing where his allegiances are gonna lie because if he changes it doesn't feel like he's trying to double cross someone he's just legitimately trying to figure it out that's a good point yeah yeah

[00:32:34] it's just it's been interesting trying maybe it's not the fact that I hate it it's just it's trying to keep tabs on everything that is happening and Rand is one of those characters

[00:32:46] that is so complicated that to put yourself in his headspace is just making me just as confused as Rand is but maybe that's the point right you know that might just that might just be the point

[00:32:58] yeah I absolutely believe he does not know what he's doing from moment to moment he may like he may have like a plan to get out to form to actually like do stuff but I don't think so I

[00:33:10] think he's just like okay well I've got a power and I can go and try to you know save my friends I I just want to say this too and this may sound really this may sound really like

[00:33:21] bad coming from a male perspective but it would be very hard for me to resist Len Fair I mean I get that she is just I talked about that a little bit last week like she is a very

[00:33:34] where Ishmael has that that charm or charisma she is a very sensual character in the way that she approaches things and I could see why Rand would be influenced by her because I probably

[00:33:50] would be just as much yeah I mean a strong female person is is hard to resist yeah I mean a strong person is hard to resist and if you add in the fact that he is a reasonably young male

[00:34:09] like now you and then you add beauty and knowledge and power to that like and and the fact that he's already had a consensual sexual relationship with the person yeah I mean that

[00:34:23] also that also ties absolutely ties in yeah so I can't believe I trusted you you know that's you know for a number of months that we were just just hanging out you know yeah and like she has

[00:34:38] a legitimate like draw to him like it wasn't all false and like he's got to be able to feel that right and it's because of her you know previous love for the previous dragon right but

[00:34:52] but like I feel like that makes it that much more intense that it's not just her putting it on like there's a real like magnetism for her to him yeah absolutely yeah but that was that was pretty much

[00:35:07] my first point was just the confusion in Rand's direction a little bit yeah I get that I think the weirdest thing is that he didn't seem to be confused that Matt had pretty

[00:35:19] much changed into a whole different person we're going with the we're going with the hey you know the recasting made made him be exactly the same so yeah yeah you know you good Ben I'm good yep

[00:35:35] okay all right so my first point is I'm gonna I'm gonna talk about what the hell is going on with land so okay I think I get it but like I this is all not stuff that was in the books so I

[00:35:56] I have no idea what the hell's going on so the fact that like they thought he was a dark friend like and now it takes our conversation from last week where you know we know he must not know

[00:36:07] who this is about or we he must not know or like I really am confused by Alana and Ivan and Maxam's viewpoint at that point oh he had this scroll about land fear and then so you take him to the

[00:36:26] an altar or a temple to the forsaken and then you're going to murder him hey a shelter is a shelter I mean I just like any part I get it in any port in a storm but I mean so you take him to a

[00:36:39] place where he might like if you think he's a dark friend like he might have some sort of power or something there um or backup there and like I did not understand the logic there but I will say that

[00:36:55] they believed it for like they believed that he was a dark friend because otherwise Alana wouldn't have been able to use the power on him uh in order to restrain him because she did

[00:37:09] right she like restrained him with the air as as Ivan and Maxam were distracting him so like she had unless she's Black Oja unless unless like unless that unless she's Black Oja then

[00:37:19] like she believed that there was a possibility he's a dark friend and she believed that uh there was something uh ill ill intended by land and possibly like because the three O's don't they

[00:37:33] don't prevent you from attacking someone based on fact they prevent you from taking action on someone based on the fact that you what you believe like it makes it you know that's the

[00:37:48] whole thing with like a police right like they're not supposed to be able to fire on someone until someone makes a deadly move towards them they have to actually believe it before they're they're going they're they're quote-a-quote allowed to shoot beyond a reasonable

[00:38:02] doubt right um but but like this that would that's the deal with the I-style like they have to be able to believe whatever it is they have to believe that they're that their water is in danger

[00:38:13] they have to believe that they're they're in danger when Rima didn't Rima Rima I think it's Rima didn't actually take action with the one power until um she was uh working to until uh

[00:38:29] Basan was actually in danger she could be cause she couldn't she wasn't able to immediately strike out at the channelers because they were not endangering her or Basan until they did and then she was

[00:38:44] able to to take action hold them in half right I mean and I also I also think like hey whoa you the three O's know they're that that one no longer applies once your water is dead because

[00:38:56] you have just suffered an insurmountable loss and you are just striking out because hey I still want to protect my water even though he's already dead um yeah she just straight F those

[00:39:07] people love it was crazy so I must have missed again I must have missed something watching this because your confusion lies in as to what whether or not they truly believed land was a dark friend

[00:39:20] I didn't even pick up on the fact that they were thinking he was a dark friend me neither I'm glad okay I was completely thrown I was I was watching that whole thing

[00:39:33] and I was like oh it seemed to me almost like filler as a way to keep land in the story until they could reconnect him to another character I had no inclination that that's what was happening

[00:39:45] that they were either convinced or accusatory of land being a dark friend never picked up on that one bit until I said it or until like a portion oh until I did pick up on it oh I just didn't know like I

[00:40:03] didn't see that coming like the build-up to that didn't sound like there was any build-up I was just like wait what um so I did pick up on it in the in the episode but I just didn't see that it

[00:40:14] was good I didn't anticipate that happening well I mean when when she had him like when she had him under restraint I kind of picked up on it then but up until that point I had no idea what was going

[00:40:29] on with these characters so when when Tom when Tom not Thomas Ivan and uh when they started quoting the passage that on the scroll um that was when like he was like blood calls blood blood seeks

[00:40:42] blood and you know why would you have this document about the Forsaken to and I was like oh they think he's a dark friend and then Alana just reinforced it well I you know we if you don't

[00:40:54] tell us what you are looking for Swan Sanchez for yes for the Emerald Seat for like I'll kill you where you stand or we will kill you where you stand that was when I was like oh okay it's like

[00:41:07] she thinks he's a dark friend well that was another part of that the point that point too was when land finally tells them yet we have found the the dragon reborn for some reason I had it in my

[00:41:21] head that everyone knew already I didn't have it in my head or didn't think or consider that the only people that knew this so far were still more rain and that party I didn't I didn't think people

[00:41:37] outside I for some reason I had assumed the Isidae and other people outside in relation to the white tower already knew this I will not say anything regarding all right all right I have

[00:41:51] yeah I had been confused about how in the know Alana was like it sometimes it seemed like she was sort of collaborating already and knew what was going on other times not there's been times

[00:42:04] I've suspected she was a dark friend I like that about this show that keeps me guessing but yeah this I don't feel like I don't know I mean maybe that's what they wanted was for it to be this big shock

[00:42:16] but it just felt out of place and not like they had built up to it appropriately to me I did think it was interesting that basically land has now put himself into the same position

[00:42:32] that he was so upset with moraine about where he has all this information that he's hiding and he's basically endangering his close friends Alana and her warders by not sharing the information with them which I just thought was interesting because he was so I know the relationship with

[00:42:51] moraine and and land is very different than land and these other friends but it was still a very similar theme and it's like what he was so angry at moraine about he's now been doing to other people

[00:43:05] too I think that it was covered back in season one but I think that land knows moraine knows the amaran knows and I think outside of that nobody else I mean now veron and then now Alana

[00:43:26] so I think those are like that's like the short list of people who know that moraine was either seeking slash has found the return or the reborn dragon do

[00:43:40] aghwain and perin and the rest of that gring not no I mean I know they believe that rand is dead but well okay I mean they do but they also thought that the they also thought that the last

[00:43:52] battle was fought and ran did it now he won but he died in the process he used to come to in the battle yeah yeah okay so yeah that's what I mean like I was for some reason I had never considered

[00:44:05] that there was only a select group that knew for some reason I had thought other people had had no well and I think that this is part of the part of the the politics of the tower

[00:44:20] in that if one aja or one group of of I said I have a mission or whatever it's not a a flat out everybody can do that like we're not going to go tell the tower because you know

[00:44:35] and kind of I think part of that is hey we're looking for the dragon reborn but there are false dragons every year or every other year or every you know couple of years or whatever

[00:44:46] the red aja goes and gentles them well each one could possibly be the dragon reborn because especially if they are claiming that they are and they are a man who can channel and but

[00:44:59] basically it just seems like the the the ice to die the white tower in general just is like okay hey we're going to maintain the status quo we're going to maintain our power

[00:45:08] and we're just going to maintain we're going to keep doing what we're doing so that was kind of my like the whole land swan uh alana triangle there I was like what the f*** is happening

[00:45:21] like oh land's possibly a dark friend oh wait no he's revealed this and now but we have to tell the amelon because we've found okay we have to tell the amelon well we're more rain already kind

[00:45:30] of sort of told the amelon I think but I guess he should have it behind closed doors when they met back in season one but uh yeah I I think maybe I need to rewatch again um season one because I

[00:45:46] like oh man don't you know I have plenty of time between seasons two and three no and I'm I had that it's funny because I had that thought too that as I was watching I was

[00:45:55] like I feel like I I should have done a season run a season one rewatch before I jumped into season two um yeah that was that was all I had for my first point awesome Veronica yeah okay

[00:46:11] trying to decide whether to just uh go full on in um hey blow your load if you need it I think I think I'm going to just because I think you know the most powerful storyline of this episode

[00:46:24] was definitely a queen and um her introduction to this shan chan culture am I saying that right shan chan yeah okay um so you know we got introduced to the basic rules of the scenario where

[00:46:39] the demane are by this culture not even considered as humans they are basically you know some other sort of being that should be tamed I think I watched the little after episode blip and they basically said like they consider women that can channel as untamed animals

[00:46:59] that need to be harnessed and so obviously we see that with the with the collaring and um the they tell us sort of the three basic rules of the demane and their handlers the soldom

[00:47:15] so lesson one is that any hurt a soldom feels a demane feels twice over um lesson two the adham which is what the name of the collar is cannot be removed

[00:47:28] as she does uh the handler does specifically say not by you so like it can be that to me implies like it can be removed right by someone um just not by those wearing it and then lesson three

[00:47:43] the demane cannot touch anything that she believes to be a weapon I guess to be a weapon against her handler because you know they're gonna use their they use their power as a weapon

[00:47:57] so it's all again going back to what the ice that I believe what the if the demane believes that they can use something as a weapon against their their soldom or whomever

[00:48:13] or against you know against the I don't know what the rules of it are but uh and you know and Elaine revealed that it was a tearing girl um kind of like the arches it's got a very specific

[00:48:26] purpose but it was it was then revealed later that in a former ice edi either an ice edi or a former ice edi actually invented it and uh and you know and made it and then I imagine at

[00:48:38] that point was then colored because of the the the quote unquote respect that this shan shan have for the the one power um but uh yeah it's it is uh very specifically a the you like you said like you said that they're they're untamed animals like their assets

[00:49:02] um you know you you take a war horse a a horse that's trained for battle and it's an asset it's not something that it can it can go wild at any given point it can you know strike out at

[00:49:17] someone if you don't have the means to to prevent it from doing so and uh it's when you start applying those rules to people um especially when it comes to like yeah we did slavery right

[00:49:33] that was we we've did it for hundreds of years possibly thousands of you not possibly thousands of years as as humans um and we treated them as eventually we treated them as three fifths

[00:49:45] of a person right I think the intent is it is inhumane but the hard part to that is that if they truly believe and I know that I'm way getting tangent to tangent to what you're talking about but if they truly believe that if they truly believe that

[00:50:06] these women are dangerous and they can't be afforded to be run loose like they're doing the world a service and like I I understand it although the attitudes of them uh because we know

[00:50:27] you know the the people that that they are will say enslaving uh and we empathize with those people from their point of view point of view they are only doing what needs to happen they're only doing what is necessary to happen to save the rest of the world

[00:50:45] maybe I would argue that if they really saw it as a danger that either finding out how to still them or just like keeping them contained but they're doing more than that they are breaking them and

[00:50:57] then using their power and that's where it goes beyond just like oh we're scared of the danger they impose it's about them yeah suppressing them to use their power yeah gaining power for yourselves uh you know when uh Suroth who god I just really just hate that character

[00:51:17] when Suroth was like oh if we talk about wealth in a matter of domain mine is higher than Turok's right because I have more domain yeah no I see I agree with what you're saying but

[00:51:29] as a sul-dham as a person who like you have to be you are trained you are you are inundated with this curriculum that it is vitally important for these women to be released or excuse me to be

[00:51:45] to be leashed yeah and breaking is a good term too because that was actually what I was thinking while we were having that conversation uh or while you guys were having that conversation is

[00:51:55] that's basically how I looked at them as well is that they are just the same way you know using the horse metaphor like you did Greg instead of warhorse is you know in the old west when

[00:52:06] horses were running wild how did you domesticate them you had to break them right you know and you had to cut and then once you could once you broke a wild horse it became yours it became

[00:52:17] something you used for your own benefit and that's exactly what they're doing with with channelers they're they're breaking them and using them as kind of their own their own weapons in a sense absolutely yeah I thought um I thought it was interesting sort of watching

[00:52:36] Rena's reactions throughout the episode as the as the handler the sul-dham and trying to sort of understand you know she seemed really excited at the prospect of harnessing a Gwain's power

[00:52:51] she seemed to be very excited about how powerful a Gwain is and it almost seemed like she got this high when they did do that like co-channeling thing um and how completely unhinged she came

[00:53:07] after they did that and she's on that high of we worked together and it felt so good like didn't it feel so good um and then a Gwain still can't pass the Pigeon test and I think that's

[00:53:17] when Rena just became like completely unhinged and I was curious how much of it is her wanting to have the power and how much of like in their culture there's gotta be this point of pride of being

[00:53:31] like one of these handlers that could tame a really powerful uh you know channeler that's what I thought it was I thought it was a a matter of I've been able to break

[00:53:46] you know anybody and I've I've trained however many D'amonay and I've been able to you know to do and you are my greatest challenge but it as you said her like her frustration absolutely got the

[00:54:03] maybe it was it was intended to just uh scare a Gwain but it absolutely felt like it was Rena's temper getting the best of her I see I don't know because I mean I I definitely see that

[00:54:18] and you know yeah I can see it as a point of pride for someone like Rena to say like oh like this is the most powerful D'amonay and and I tamed her but you know I don't know if I see it as

[00:54:31] her frustration got the best of her get the better of her I think this is the person she's always been and the being friendly to a Gwain in the beginning was just a false front right

[00:54:41] Victor Lord in trust I think the Rena that we saw putting her up on the hook so she couldn't breathe like all of that I don't think that was losing her frustration I think that's the true Rena

[00:54:53] oh no right no I what I mean by losing you know uh having her frustration come through is um as you say like the veil drops right the veil drops and now your true self comes out got you okay and

[00:55:08] and and you start acting on those those emotions um but I think that there's also probably um and this is not based on any kind of book knowledge or anything like that I think that

[00:55:23] there's also a matter of not just pride but like you aren't doing your job you aren't doing your job and we've seen what the Shonjon do to people who aren't fulfilling their their

[00:55:37] oaths they're not fulfilling like we've seen what Suroth does to does do to servants that don't do what they're supposed to do and uh I think that there's the Rena may end up

[00:55:49] getting some pressure from above um so I can see that as well I wondered what you guys thought do you think you'd ever pass the picture test I don't know if I'd ever or have been able to get

[00:56:03] to a mental place where I didn't see it as a weapon like I think I would have just ended up like dying in that cell I think that I think that eventually I would break um and uh as I mean I think that

[00:56:18] everyone has their breaking point um I think that if it's a matter of you're being tortured day in hour in you know hour in hour out day in day out you know week month year in year out

[00:56:31] now maybe at some point they just say well okay well you're just gonna die of thirst because you can't pick up the picture um but I think that eventually most people have a breaking point

[00:56:44] this this might be thinking lowly of myself but I don't know if I would have ever thought to use the picture as a weapon to begin with I would have been broken right from the start of this whole

[00:56:55] thing thirsty up for water I know they you know I think it was obviously supposed to be a longer sort of event of her breaking I think it was hard that it was all packed into one episode like

[00:57:11] again I mean it's so hard not to compare this show to other similar shows uh in this genre so I mean it made me think back to the breaking of of rick in game of thrones and how long that

[00:57:22] process took until he was really broken and really was then going to be faithful to the person torturing him um and so I think like for me I I would have not that I want to see her

[00:57:36] torture like pulled out across more episodes because it was obviously painful to watch but I think I would have believed the breaking point more if they'd been able to spend more time on

[00:57:47] showing that you know she had broken down and I know they showed I mean we definitely each scene they came back to her she looked worse and worse and you didn't know that it had been time and

[00:57:57] at the end when we had the reveal of the sitter of the blue auge on the other side of the wall and um you know she commented like I broke way sooner than you like that did help us get

[00:58:08] the context that this had been a long time and then Gwen had held out a long time but I think it because of the way it was packed into just one episode it was hard for me to

[00:58:20] to feel like she had held out long enough like no hit against her like again like she had been terribly tortured by that point but so so I I believe that so what's what is the the

[00:58:34] the kind of the thumb rule that you can go weeks without food but three days without water I think I keep forgetting that she hadn't drank any water so she couldn't drink any water

[00:58:45] until she was able to pick up the picture without thinking about without thinking of it as a weapon and so I think it was only a few days um but and I think that part of Rena's um

[00:59:00] part of Rena's urgency is that she would die if she didn't break her and so like okay well like you don't want to lose this asset that could be one of the most powerful de monne ever um

[00:59:15] but I think that's part of the urgency is that that she's literally dying of thirst and it's a there's there's a ticking clock and if she can't learn to do it

[00:59:28] Rena and the Sanchon aren't going to they aren't going to give in because they can't afford to have a loose channeler on the loose right yeah a strong channeler on the loose

[00:59:39] yeah that makes sense I think I kept forgetting about the water component like I kept seeing that as the challenge she had to overcome and I sort of forgot that it wasn't just the challenge

[00:59:49] it was that was her access to drinking water herself so yeah that makes more sense I think when Rena poured it on the ground oh she's like oh you bitch yeah because at that when she did that at that moment I didn't realize that Aguin could still

[01:00:06] drink from the pitcher I thought like that was her access to water and then she just dumped it out so but then when I saw Aguin go for the pitcher and actually drink out of the picture I was like

[01:00:16] okay I feel a little bit better about this now she's actually getting water yeah that was that was absolutely brutal and I thought they did a really good job of of like the vibrations and Madeline Madden's portrayal of physical pain and then the makeup

[01:00:36] artists or whether it was CGI or whatever it was like it they they did a great job in showing that degradation of her physical being over time yeah I have that in my notes too that the

[01:00:50] Madeline Madden's acting was just superb in this episode you good front of good yeah that's all I had on that then what you got I kind of want to just piggyback on that with a couple additional

[01:01:02] things because I did have that as one of my main points as well and I won't take too much time into this because like I said I'm just going to piggyback off of it but one of the things

[01:01:11] I did notice is the strength of Renna Renna to me came across as a very intriguing character throughout all of this because even in the first scene where we see her dragging Aguin into the cell

[01:01:27] the ease of which she drug Aguin like like it was nothing to her so like it made me very curious like okay what is the strength of the Soudam like are they powerful people like it makes me feel like

[01:01:43] okay like they're more than just handlers like there is something otherworldly or spectacular about them because like I said the ease of which she just she drags Aguin into the room as if she's drained like dragging a puppy I mean to be fair Madeline Madden's probably what 100 110

[01:02:03] pounds I mean let's not say it is not much bigger I don't I don't disagree I'm just it would yeah but yeah she I mean to lift her up and hang her on the dam yeah on the hook

[01:02:14] was just like whoa yeah but it does bring up a question that I have and Greg maybe you can kind of shine some light on this if you know as well and this is the the main point I want

[01:02:25] to piggyback off of too Penn Soudam channel or do they just tap into those who can't I don't know okay because it made me think like because I mean we do see Aguin is the one that's

[01:02:41] doing the channeling through the tree at Renna's request and at Renna's direction but we've seen that Renna can tap into that power because we do see the strands kind of go into the collar

[01:02:52] and go into the bracer that is connected to the collar so we do see that she can tap into it and it makes me curious as to whether or not Soudam can actually channel if they are physically

[01:03:04] tethered through the collar in the bracer to somebody else who can't so are you asking if they could channel by themselves or are you asking if they can channel through the like direct the their demonic if they can do if they can channel through their demonic

[01:03:24] not by not by themselves something tells me I don't think they can buy the alone gotcha yeah I I think that they can assist directing I don't think it's a matter of because let me like when when they were when they were hunting down

[01:03:43] Jar chasing Aguin Elaine and and Naniyev there weren't words like oh fireball and you know oh do this do that it was all like the I think it was the Soudam and the demonic doing it together I

[01:04:00] feel like there's almost like a almost like a not maybe not psychic link but some sort of link between them that allows them to have some type of communication or maybe it's just the training

[01:04:12] of one one Soudam and one demonic being able to coordinate and like oh hey if we're doing this we're doing this if we're doing this we're doing this and I imagine that demonic eventually start

[01:04:23] to anticipate the Soudam and Soudam's needs with regard to what they want to do it's it's mainly that tree scene that made me really question this because it seems like you know

[01:04:34] um it seemed like Rena was kind of giving Aguin the direction of like tap into like tap into this tree feel the roots okay you found the roots now you know yeah she could feel what she was doing

[01:04:46] yeah like she could feel what she was doing as if she was getting a sense of it herself and at that time she was tethered to Aguin right so I like I don't maybe she can't channel but Ken

[01:04:59] Soudam tap into the power that their Demane has yeah I don't know that was just something I was very curious about yeah but based on what we see like I don't think that they could like

[01:05:14] I don't think it's like uh like when we saw in season one at Faldara where you know one person was linked to the other and that one is just able to draw on the power I think it's a matter of

[01:05:29] the Demane are directing the power on the Soudam's demand request whatever you want to whatever word you want to use I was just saying I feel like that was my inclination too that they

[01:05:41] can't directly pull in channel only because the breaking of women that could channel I think would be less important if so because if they could just put the collar on and pull and direct from them

[01:05:56] why not just put them in a cage and keep them in a cart that follows the caravan behind right right like obviously it would be ideal to break most of them but it seemed like if she couldn't

[01:06:07] break Aguin that Aguin might die and if that didn't have to be the outcome if they could just keep her in a cage nearby and still utilize her power that's that's a really good point

[01:06:17] seems like it'd be easier um obviously that's not like a definitive no that it can't happen but that was why I was guessing that maybe they can't do that but definitely interested to understand it

[01:06:31] more like I didn't fully understand how how it was working and how like what the amount of power the Demane like what has to go through the Soudam and how the cuff and the ring work

[01:06:45] with the collar so definitely still pretty confused on it but that was basically it I just kind of wanted to piggyback off of those um off of Veronica's point with those two additional

[01:06:57] okay points for my second one um all right so my second point is going to be something that we talked a little bit about but uh the capture of of Raima and the in the battle between Hasan and

[01:07:10] or sorry Basan and the Shanshan um now we already addressed the amazing we'll say skill in which she was able to fold these kids like a pretzel or sorry these kids the the Soudam because yeah

[01:07:28] apparently she understood that it's the Soudam who are allowing things to happen so if if Soudam are no longer able to to direct channeling or permit the Demane to channel then hey I don't

[01:07:45] need to attack the Demane because once the once the the Adam Adam however you say it is is empty the Demane can't do shit so she's you know and she she said that like sisters lost their lives

[01:07:57] in order for her to get the Adam, Adam whatever um that she has in her possession that the now Naniyayv and Elaine have um but the point being is that the the capture and then okay hey I know that

[01:08:11] they are coming to get a channeler and the intent was take out as many of them as I can and then Basan you kill me and that and that that way I'm not enslaved I'm not uh taken in

[01:08:26] this was not in the books um in the books you saw the aftermath you saw Rima who was a Demane and to see this was amazing like it to to and like you know we we met the we met her at the end of

[01:08:46] last episode and then we had what four scenes with her and like I the the actor did a phenomenal job the the between the her water dying and then her her being collared like the emotion like I

[01:09:04] absolutely was just like just shocked and uh just almost humbled by how difficult that was that was as close I mean especially with it being in parallel to Gwain um like it was it was very

[01:09:19] very difficult to watch brutal on an emotional level but I thought I thought that it was that was absolutely superbly done and you can see how an Isidae or a channeler could be taken

[01:09:33] even if they lost a number of soldiers or even Soudam yeah that's that's basically what I wanted to talk about it was amazing yeah yeah it was really really good I loved that entire scene

[01:09:45] and yeah I hadn't even thought about I think I felt such an emotional connection to everything that was happening to that character even though we'd only had like like you said just very limited

[01:09:55] scenes with her maybe 20 minutes of of screen time with her and and it was just very effective the show's been doing emotion really well I feel like several of these episodes this season

[01:10:08] just different um different actors really portraying pain and loss and just deep uh deep deep hurt emotions really well I think yeah I mean throwing back to to the you know where we raved about how

[01:10:25] how amazing Zoe Robbins was uh on her on a Ninetaves episode and here you know Madeline Madden was also you know phenomenal uh but then you get this actress and uh in who the the woman who

[01:10:40] played Rima and she put so much into the the despair that she felt at the end was just so impressive yeah and I'm also very appreciative too because I said it last week when we had that fight scene

[01:10:55] with Avienda around Perrin like how how great it is when we get these amazing combat scenes and I had mentioned like well when are we going to get another one with land because we know land's

[01:11:06] a badass so we could get this and we didn't get that but we did get another I said I fight you know through through Rima Rima however it's pronounced by the end of it I was like you

[01:11:15] know what I'll take it because that was amazing right that was fantastic I have to I have to jump back so I you know it was it was a pleasure to listen to you guys do the podcast last week

[01:11:27] and uh right as you had been talking about land and wanting to see another scene with him fighting Ben I was like or just you know land with the shirt off and the second later Greg says that and I was

[01:11:40] like yeah Greg's got my back oh man priorities of people very important priorities all right so that that's that that's my big that was my number my second point okay right yeah so I think my point

[01:12:03] my last point is a little more nebulous but I just noticed that in this episode I suddenly felt less critical of how many divergent storylines we had because I feel like I'm starting to get the pay

[01:12:19] off of how good it feels to get all of our characters reuniting so like I definitely hear I think Ben you've already mentioned this even just earlier tonight of how it has been sort of frustrating

[01:12:31] when we have like eight different storylines going and they're flashing between all of them in each episode so I've definitely felt that and don't disagree but with this episode I finally felt like okay well that like uncomfortableness is starting to feel worth it because I'm feeling

[01:12:47] like the excitement of everyone coalescing down again so it seems like we have people either all meeting up in I'm gonna say it wrong because I wanted to say Karhain it's Kairine so it looks like we have Lan, Alana and Co that just arrived with Swan and 14 other

[01:13:12] Isidae including Leandron, Rand, Min and Matt are all also there although they were reuniting and then all splitting up a little bit but then Rand couldn't leave because Lan caught him so we've got that whole big group all there and then in is it Fulm?

[01:13:31] Fulm yeah. Fulm we've got Loyal and then I forget the name of the like soldier prince yeah but we've got him there Rand was trying to go there I'm assuming eventually we're gonna have more of our Kairine group head that way but we'll see Aguilne, Naineev,

[01:13:55] Elaine is there, Perrin is heading there correct? Is at the end of last episode I know we didn't get to see him at all this episode but I don't know I mean I'm totally like a cheese ball for

[01:14:09] getting all the worm fuzzies when our group of heroes all get back together and so I don't know to me that was just it was like okay like I was feeling critical of this but now I'm

[01:14:22] feeling like okay like it's paying off and I'm getting all the worm fuzzies of the excitement of everyone all coalescing back together so that's not like a super extensive point but that was my point three just that I'm enjoying where we're finally going.

[01:14:38] I'm just gonna jump into my second or to my final point too because you kind of touched on something that I was gonna bring with mine too and one of the things I mentioned last week

[01:14:48] last episode I really I really struggled to find a connection to the season because that we had all these different storylines in going and so and I felt like it was really

[01:14:59] really stretching way too thin the story that was trying to be told and I had mentioned that my favorite storyline going forward so far was Perrin and then this is the week that we get

[01:15:10] no Perrin as if they knew that was my point last week but I actually didn't mind it because taking away one of the stories or taking a pause on one of the stories that we were getting

[01:15:28] actually felt like it made this episode feel more full because we weren't stretching it out I feel like had they told more of Perrin's story in this episode with everything that was happening with

[01:15:40] Aguain with everything that was happening with Nineveh and and Rima and because even the stuff with Moraine was very low on the totem pole in the story that they told the bigger focus

[01:15:54] of this episode was Rand, Nineveh, Aguain and Rena like those were the the two main story points so they kind of really focused this episode on the story that they wanted to tell

[01:16:09] and and kind of took a pause on everything else so it didn't this episode to me actually felt for the first time this season like it wasn't stretching the thought the story too thin I

[01:16:21] was okay with the fact that we didn't get Perrin even though it is the most interesting oh we did get stuff with Rand as well in this episode but we I was very even though as as much as I really

[01:16:34] am intrigued by the Perrin storyline right now it was okay by the fact that they took a break on it because it made me feel like we actually got a lot of meat to this episode because

[01:16:46] they took a pause right yeah I completely agree so that was that was the big third point I wanted to make so you know we've already addressed my top point which was Aguain and the concept of Demane

[01:17:01] and how they aren't really people you are not a woman you are a Demane and but so I will just kind of elaborate a little bit more on the Nine Yev's Elaine stuff so the the the fact that

[01:17:19] Nine Yev has you know she even though she couldn't really control what she was doing she basically kind of intuitively was able to to channel into the Adam and and understand that no it

[01:17:35] can't be it can't be destroyed because it needs to be healed it needs to be healed by being completed it needs to be completed by having a person on either end and once that happens now it is a

[01:17:48] complete you can't do anything without a channeler on on the the leash or rather on the the color end I do and I am enjoying the Nine Yev and Elaine like two very strong characteristic or not sorry very

[01:18:05] two very strong female personalities going at each other I'm enjoying it because kind of like Nine Yev has kind of met her match a little bit like oh no f you I'm not going anywhere because

[01:18:17] well no you need to go because well now I'm gonna go I'm gonna take the road of hey for the good of everybody well no no f you I'm not going anywhere like we're gonna save save a queen

[01:18:28] I uh I I really did I am I am starting to enjoy them and I feel like there's a mutual respect between the two of them that is that is at least starting to develop and I kind of mentioned already

[01:18:39] but the the the Terri Groll one more that we can identify and I am now kind of like oh Terri Groll watch what does this what does that you know what does this do what whatever and the

[01:18:53] fact that it was created as opposed to like it was created in the age of legends this was create maybe it was created by one of the S. Di in the age of legends I don't know but it makes

[01:19:03] me wonder more want to know more about the Shanchon and like the societies they have back on the other side of the world I think what you were just saying made me sort of wonder I wonder

[01:19:13] what would happen if you had an ice to die or another woman who could channel on the other end of a woman in a collar like could their powers coalesce together I mean I know they can already do

[01:19:27] that together but I just wondered like if you can't get the collar off uh your friend can you like uh wear the ring and the cuff and power together I don't know yeah they talk about the

[01:19:41] Soudam having to train for years in order to you know be able to learn how to do that stuff so I mean maybe I don't know but yeah it's definitely an interesting idea all right so notes all right

[01:20:00] Veronica what you got um I don't think we really talked anything about men um and just the really big sacrifice that she made to protect Matt even knowing that you know Matt was going to be pretty

[01:20:13] upset and and not feel like it was done out of love or friendship but you know she telling Matt what she knew and that she'd been manipulating him was ultimately her being really selfless

[01:20:30] um and sort of giving up any chance she had although I don't know that I believe Isha'a mail has any intention of ever actually releasing men from her ability to see the future I don't

[01:20:43] really see that happening but she obviously believed that that was what was going to happen and she gave that up because it seems like she had finally sort of started to care a little

[01:20:53] bit about Matt and so I thought that was pretty um like pretty interesting character development for men because we've mostly seen her kind of doing what what works for her up until this point right

[01:21:06] I get what you're saying about men but it's it's just hard to have pity I can have pity but I also have that balancing like retribution or retributive I don't know whatever the word is

[01:21:20] um that uh like you know what this is this is what you get although yeah maybe you're saving the dragon reborn so maybe maybe there's a positive there's an upside yeah um anything

[01:21:36] we want to trade off on notes just because I know we didn't cover a couple of different story lines I have a couple of things um so the I will just say you know Leandron was released from her

[01:21:50] her her tether to the the mortal world that is one of my notes as well yeah um like I get what Lanfeer's saying like hey this this man this your son is holding you back and you know

[01:22:05] that this isn't life like you you really signed your your soul away for for nothing and uh but you know what hey maybe you don't have to do that through Ishmael anymore because I can give you a

[01:22:19] release and then I can also although I would do wonder if you could like bond she could bond her son and like give her some of the give him some of like the the healing powers or whatever

[01:22:29] that uh that waters have but anyway um yeah so now now Leandron's I think even more of a wild card because she always had a reason to go back to the tower she had a reason to be careful

[01:22:42] and now she has less reason to do so yeah I kind of looked at it as in like if it seemed like losing her son was the one thing that she had a massive fear of

[01:22:56] and Lanfeer comes in and just releases her of that fear by basically giving her what she was always afraid of right you know like the one thing that she was afraid of she made it happen so that she

[01:23:10] doesn't have to fear it anymore and yeah I think that makes her more a more dangerous person absolutely in time I don't think it's gonna make it doesn't immediately make her more dangerous

[01:23:22] but in time now that that release has been given she's going to become a much more imposing threat as we go through I concur I think it also opens her up I mean she's bound by a oath to

[01:23:44] the shadow the shadow so she can't I mean what does that mean if she tries to go back on that and you know previously her reason for not going back on it was her son so I think it

[01:24:01] it creates her as a wild card not only to go darker but also to potentially choose something different it would probably require self-sacrifice and I don't know that I have a lot of confidence

[01:24:14] that Leandron has the capability to do much self-sacrifice beyond that one tether that she had but yeah I agree it makes it more interesting and keeps me still guessing like what is this character

[01:24:30] going to end up where does she land in the whole scheme of things yeah the what like I I don't know what it took to release her from the three oaths and I imagine that there's some sort of

[01:24:47] magic or something that is like binding her to the shadow so like I I don't know how you would release that like going it when you're talking about going back on an oath to someone to a person

[01:25:03] that has nothing to do with magic it's easy like right you just have to have the intestinal fortitude to not do whatever it is you said you were going to do when you have something that is

[01:25:15] well I'll just keep you as a pet and torture you she was talking to Suroth about being leashed I mean like Lanfeer tosses a leash on her that that's that's a form of torture

[01:25:30] and you know that's something that she would fear so that personal sacrifice especially like I imagine that there's something in a in the a dame or a Dom that would prevent self-hurt as well

[01:25:46] if someone is oh well I'm just not going to let myself be killed like in that case Rima would just be able to kill herself but now she can't because she's collared

[01:25:54] and so going back against the a pact with the you know was that make a deal with the devil you know that eventually it comes due I don't think you can be like oh you know what I

[01:26:06] I changed my mind I'm not not not gonna do that anymore yeah yeah it does it makes me seem as if Leandron almost was and I know I say this Greg the with you knowing the history of this

[01:26:19] character and the also the the fate of this character but like it almost makes me feel like at some point maybe Leandron and what really makes me question this is last week's episode

[01:26:31] after when she brings them when she brings Ninjave and Elaine and going to the Shan Shan before she walks back through the archway she sets them free right you know to give them

[01:26:45] a fighting chance and it may almost makes you think well maybe Leandron is she is a dark friend but maybe there's something in her past that we're going to learn that she is she is a dark friend

[01:26:57] against her will like maybe she owes somebody to something she owes something to somebody and because of that she had to take an oath to the shadow and it wasn't something she ever

[01:27:10] intended to do but she was kind of she felt she had no choice right I like I don't I don't know I have I have no idea of what you know being what an oath to the shadow looks like and I would

[01:27:27] I'll be honest I would love to see that I would love to see the physical manifestation of that on the show because like that is something that I've never been able to picture and and so like that

[01:27:43] and like hey is it a matter of hey I have I feel a pressure in my head when I do something that is not in accordance with you know in accordance with whoever my master is at the moment whether

[01:27:54] it's Ishmael or or Lanfeer or whatever similar to almost the the um the Demane and the Sodom yeah like I have zero concept but uh I want to know more yeah so please don't cancel the show

[01:28:12] Bezos don't screw me here this show I mean with the amount of content that there is this show could go for years I think seven years I think we've mentioned so we mentioned

[01:28:22] I think we talked about that last year yeah well we'll say seven seasons in the fact that yeah in the fact that it takes me like 14 years yeah exactly uh I think the last notes that I had were

[01:28:35] moraines still being kind of a bitch I'm okay that is the only note that I have left we have covered everything else and I have that out if so if you don't mind me taking that one

[01:28:45] so I haven't given a note um I have it it is written in my notes more of moraines ruthless rises and I kind of enjoyed seeing it a little bit like I know like you mentioned she was being a total

[01:28:58] bitch to her sister in her nephew but that scene where she tells her sister well I'm the older sister I don't have to leave because technically this house is mine right like I was like okay

[01:29:11] we now saw you sacrifice a horse keeper and kill another horse like like we are seeing a completely different side of moraine kind of break through a little bit and and again I understand

[01:29:26] where this is coming from it's just kind of jarring a little bit to see this coming from a character that we kind of made our first impressions of off this first season right and now it's kind of going against everything we thought of moraine in the first season

[01:29:42] and it almost makes me question as to whether or not are we ever going to see forgive me for using a star wars phrase here are we ever gonna see for some reason is moraine ever gonna turn to the

[01:29:54] dark side right because we're seeing she has those instincts that it could happen I don't think it ever will but I think it comes back to that intestinal fortitude as well as the whole

[01:30:08] blue aja if she I mean I can't imagine that she is black if she had the kids and then she didn't turn them over to somebody unless she's playing the really long game it makes you have to question

[01:30:21] yet you're absolutely right the the character shift from last season to this season for moraine is is very very like jarring and uh I mean I I it's it's funny because she vacillates right

[01:30:41] she like is kind of a bitch and then she like backs off a little bit and then she's kind of a bitch and then she back and then she's like hardcore bitch and then backs off and and you know she's

[01:30:50] uh trying to oh wait and you get this letter to a sister of the blue aja and blah blah blah and then oh the ambulance here and uh you're being I mean they're not gonna still her um but

[01:31:04] she I did really enjoy how moraine how they how they presented like the I've been still like I need to tell you something that I've and how they like wrote it on the the screen

[01:31:14] they didn't expect you to read whatever they're writing and then is it like and then it disappears because she's like oh no I can't say this because it's uh I liked it a lot yeah this house is mine

[01:31:27] oh but I like your sandwiches like it's yeah it's it's too you know they're diametrically different and it's it is kind of jarring um but I think it's also kind of clever because again now that you said

[01:31:40] you know like you said now that we know that the black aja actually exists for anybody who's new to this material it does make you question does moraine have that sensibility that she

[01:31:50] could potentially be or even turn two right in time the black aja she might not be now but could she be later right you know yep absolutely so all right very interesting I think

[01:32:07] just piggybacking quick on to that but like I thought the whole sandwich thing was the most ridiculous f a thing like I'm sorry I'm sorry grown ass man comes in and I made you a sandwich you said

[01:32:20] when I was little that I did it really well and then like her when she went to apologize to him was like I think you're gonna be a great king and I'm just like are you like kindness is important

[01:32:31] but also like maybe some confidence and like not needing your long lost ants approval of your sandwich making skills I just thought that was it was too much like I know they were trying

[01:32:44] to get a point across but I felt like they could have done it in a way that didn't make him seem just so ridiculous and king can't even make a decent sandwich he doesn't have to he's the king

[01:32:59] all right everybody good yeah all right ad break we will we'll be back okay and we're back and we have you know again because of the strikes we don't have many interviews and most of what we've gotten

[01:33:16] off is we found portions of excerpts of like reviews of the show that we thought were kind of cool the the first one is a wheel of time at season two episode six review horrific but great drama

[01:33:33] from lrm online com by Campbell Clark without spoiling anything episode six is a pretty rough watch if you're looking for light entertainment this is not light entertainment now we're starting to getting into the sum of the grittiness and cruelty of the world dreamed up by Robert Jordan

[01:33:49] this is honestly when I sat up and began to take notice of the story when I read the books the main story being told in episode six is electric tough to watch but great drama and well

[01:33:59] adapted all I'm saying is this land story could have been rid jiggled a little bit to make more sense and characters are getting to places very far away in what seems like a far too short

[01:34:09] a space of time if not for these factors episode six would like be likely to be my favorite of the seasons so far the good far outweighs the negative here and to be fair this may

[01:34:19] look like it may be a book fan annoyance I don't think show watchers have a scale for the distances involved here and land story may come across fine when you don't have the books to go by and thus

[01:34:29] cursed by that future knowledge another criticism I've seen online and agree with is that the show needs to have some maps or we need to have characters look at maps so we understand where

[01:34:37] all these locations are or are that we visit so readily my worry is that they have they like people not knowing how far it is between Kyrene and Tarvalon one thing

[01:34:47] Game of Thrones did well is that is that or that is hard to replicate was the opening credit maps rings of power has opted for fade in maps but so far nothing map wise for real time I'd even

[01:34:57] take the character consulting a map for non-big book readers this front and this is from me I beg to differ Amazon X-ray has maps that you can absolutely look at and you know you don't

[01:35:08] necessarily have a scale on them but you can get some sort of idea there so they do have maps but I get what you're saying or what the what Campbell is saying regarding the Game of Thrones like oh they got on a dragon and they disappeared to somewhere

[01:35:26] Leander and has popped back and forth maybe Tarvalon and Kyrene are not that far apart and we know that she used the ways in order to get to to form but we also unless you've

[01:35:37] looked at a map you don't know that form is like on the far west coast of the land mass and we don't know where Kyrene is so I was going to say they have the ways so the ways is kind of

[01:35:48] like the shortcut to wherever they need to go all right so the other one we have comes from screen rant comm article by Charles Nicholas Raymond Wheel of Time season two episode six is character death explains a missing book story Basad's death in the Wheel of Time helps

[01:36:04] explain an ambiguous plot point in the Robert Jordan book series shortly after his introduction Basad met an untimely death in the Wheel of Time season two episode six titled the eyes of pity seconds before he could save his eyes to die from the fate of becoming a Demane

[01:36:20] but son lost his life at the hands of the shanchan Rima and I said I have the yellow Ajah and her water were presented as allies to Nineve and Elaine in their efforts to evade the shanchan and rescue a Gwena there

[01:36:34] the two characters risked their lives to help with both putting up a valiant fight against shanchan soldiers and the Demane under their control when defeat became imminent Rima pleaded for Basad to kill her only for the latter to die instead this is basically just a recap of what

[01:36:48] happens in the episode his death which Nineve and Elaine were helpless to stop allowed the episode to close off on a tragic note that actually honored Jordan's Wheel of Time books in an interesting way what happened at the end of The Eyes Without Pity wasn't depicted

[01:37:03] in the books nor was Basad even a part of this storyline there was a water to a yellow sister who shared his name in the Wheel of Time his Wheel of Time history but that's the extent

[01:37:13] of the connection between the two characters even so Basad's death and Rima's defeat should hardly be considered departures from the novels especially since some variation of this event could very well have occurred off the page it's important to note that upon her

[01:37:28] introduction in the books Rima Galfei of the Yellow Ajah was a captive of the shanchan as well as an ice-a-dye with no water in sight uh well that's interesting so this could have been a prequel to her introduction in the book uh in The Great Hunt the second

[01:37:44] book in the series and the story and the story season two is adapting a guain met Rima after being captured by the shanchang unlike the tv character Rima was already a Demane on the verge of being broken by the shanchan slavers at this time exactly what transpired

[01:38:00] when she was captured wasn't depicted in the book but it being very similar to the tragedy shown in the episode albeit without Elaine and Naine's present makes sense after all most ice-a-dye are accompanied by waters so it does seem reasonable that her water if she had one

[01:38:17] would have died fighting by her side with Rima being desperate to avoid the miserable life of the Demane and then the article gets spoiler after that yeah so so the reason that i that i

[01:38:28] wanted to include this was this is exactly what i was talking about the last couple of of weeks like this is enhancing the book readers experience like they are taking these things that may or may not have happened like in it actually happened in the books and they're

[01:38:45] giving us backstory in by by showing it to me of space specifically to me by hey i have some knowledge i have some understanding i remember you know Rima being in uh being in the book but i never saw any scene close to this

[01:39:07] and how they would actually be able to capture a channeler specifically an ice-a-dye but like i said earlier you know i kind of raved about how much i enjoyed the scene and

[01:39:20] and the acting thereof and the writing and i like i thought that this is a kind of a really cool concept that hey this is what a potential plot hole from uh from the books um and and i i really

[01:39:36] liked it yeah like i said it's interesting it was kind of like a played out uh like a a prequel to her character before we before she's made the books yeah uh all right so moving on to

[01:39:52] our listener feedback uh we had some uh some stuff from facebook thank you guys very much very much appreciate the uh the feedback i feel like i'm getting a getting a getting ready a couple days and so you guys are absolutely responding uh so first from

[01:40:08] alisa oranga so cruel and brutal it was really hard to watch a guine and then rima the ice-a-dye are losing their hold on this war in the big time on this war in this war big time

[01:40:20] tammy bar this season started out a bit slow and i wasn't as drawn in as i was for season one until episode five both episodes five and six were outstanding this latest episode had me in

[01:40:32] tears i was barely introduced to that yellow ice-a-dye and really felt sad to see her sacrifice herself insist on death and then get collared however i'm hoping for a powerful and amazing jailbreak later this season with a guine the forsaken seemed so powerful and i

[01:40:48] don't know how our group is going to defeat them in the series i agree i i said that last episode i felt like the first half of the season was really slow and it wasn't until last week's

[01:40:58] episode that i started getting really really into the story yeah i i um as we mentioned earlier tammy like we agree it was like rima rima whatever uh did did so much uh with the the short

[01:41:14] period of time she was on on now with regard to the jailbreak i i can't i i can't imagine that they would end up with a guine still in like i can't imagine they would still have her at

[01:41:29] like let another two years go by and she's just becoming maybe a more powerful demone i i am hoping to see that too uh because that would be a miserable one to finish this season

[01:41:42] yeah i definitely want to see her bust out of there i kind of like i i almost wonder if it would be what would be more impactful would it be more impactful for a guine to be rescued by

[01:41:59] naneve and elaine or for her to get herself out of that situation like i i feel like the best of both both worlds would be that uh elaine and naneve would be like provide some sort of either

[01:42:17] distraction or to get the color off and then a guine straight up fucks people up yeah not not limited by the three o's she could just straight up oh all this shit you taught me i'm gonna fuck all you

[01:42:31] motherfuckers up excuse me maybe i can maybe i can delete some of that out but i don't know i feel like it felt necessary because that is what we want to see all right uh so we also have

[01:42:44] a comment from sam low saying this episode was brutal the actress playing a guine did a phenomenal job um also said oh matt go be with your bestie i totally agree and then this is my favorite part

[01:43:00] of the comment but also i know land fear is evil but her dress has pockets i see you girl i totally agree that's awesome i didn't notice i need to go back and see i didn't notice that

[01:43:12] she had pockets but yeah i guess i still i don't know is land fair evil will she be evil will she play a more positive role it seems like there's potential for her to go a few ways maybe not good

[01:43:30] but i think she could uh be more complicated than just pure evil right uh i mean she did talk about you know i i know how she she mentioned like oh well i know that you can you can go a different

[01:43:44] path like i know that it's it i didn't think that i would turn either until my heart was broken and ripped out of my chest and uh i was revealed to be the horrible person that i am uh and then

[01:44:00] that's when that's when i did what i had to do in order to uh live my best life and then uh lastly from uh from christin emmerich uh madeline's abilities and actress came through this week her resolve and her descent into submission and subsequent heartbreak over it

[01:44:18] man it was hard to watch us on at times but matt and men's storyline still really bothers me waiting patiently to see how this plays out as they were such both such important players

[01:44:28] in the core group storyline yes uh that is yes christin that is something that uh is very different and it is not the same at all and it is i'm again trying to patiently wait and let this develop

[01:44:45] and maybe show me something that uh oh man this is maybe not better but like equally engaging all right everybody that's our show thanks for listening if you'd like to write in a

[01:44:57] recorder message and send it in you can email it to talk at podcastic.com one more thing i will implore you guys to do is uh writer of you even if it's a matter of hey uh greg sucks but benavaraca

[01:45:11] are pretty good um like hey like getting that feedback it maybe be a little bit more specific on how i suck and what i suck at maybe that i say um a bunch um whatever the um but whatever it is

[01:45:26] uh i love personally love getting feedback so that i can work to improve my not only performance but like uh anything right um if someone's if someone's laugh is irritating you don't you don't need to

[01:45:41] say that like it if it irritates you you can i'm sure you can either not listen or or deal with it but uh you know if let us know what we're doing right what we're doing wrong or whatever

[01:45:53] dear wheel of time cast we were very excited to hear ben was returning and then he started talking i take it back i actually sent that one in sorry i signed me i mean anonymous so also check out our facebook page at facebook.com slash podcastica another great

[01:46:16] spot to put feedback uh we are also on i'm gonna say x because it's not twitter anymore yes you need a new host who does a better you know does a better agenda i get it yeah but also on x at podcastica

[01:46:32] is where it can be found there uh who knows for too much longer because if elon starts charging like he wants to uh most people are not going to be on x anymore i i mean to be fair uh i don't

[01:46:43] look at that um so uh maybe i should given that we talk about it every time i can't tell you the last time i was actually on x it just hurts to go on there now and not only that but if i tell people

[01:46:56] i'm on x it makes people think i'm on drugs i know that uh we've got a bunch of other five podcasts going uh most of which i'm not listening to because i just barely had enough time to watch the

[01:47:10] wheel of time twice to do a podcast on it um but i know we got a couple like white lotus season two i'm about 15 minutes into the first episode of season two so um i really just want to watch it

[01:47:24] but then i had to do other stuff what are you guys watching watch it man it's so good uh i'm watching daryl dixon i'm enjoying it so far or at least finding it interesting so far and

[01:47:36] listening to the podcast always makes me enjoy it a little bit more so uh loving that it's nice to hear lucy's voice in my ears again along with jason so always a good listen that's why i need to

[01:47:50] watch that is just to be able to listen to the podcast again because i haven't been able to yeah i i have not uh for the most part all of the shows that are being covered right now i

[01:48:02] have either not i am either not watching or haven't started yet uh i haven't started is okay yet i'm waiting for the season to end now because there's only two episodes left so i'm just going to wait

[01:48:13] until it's over and binge it uh buffy the vampire slayer i have not watched in years never seen an episode of white lotus i have not started daryl dixon yet and i mentioned this

[01:48:25] when i covered dead city really wasn't interested in it so i don't know when i'll get to it yeah that's fair um i know that they're i know that sydney is doing uh luky verse um and they

[01:48:38] they're i think they're just getting into doing a rewatch uh for a couple episodes at a time and then i know ben you you guys you and christin just started uh ted lasso on revisited

[01:48:49] and uh i cannot wait to get back into that because that's basically my almost weekly watch anyway by the time this episode is out we will have already covered and released season one episode

[01:49:01] one of ted lasso and it was a lot of fun to talk about oh i'm sure a lot of fun to talk about and that's when i haven't watched yet and so this i'm excited that you guys are covering it because

[01:49:12] i think i'm gonna finally jump on the bandwagon and watch along as you guys cover it so it should be fun yeah you're gonna have a hard time holding on to one episode at a time like

[01:49:21] oh i'm sure i'll go ahead but i think that and then just like ben said i'm about to uh get on a binge for isoka because i haven't been able to keep up with that either but

[01:49:33] i'm excited to watch that one and to listen to the podcast yeah i uh i i just i was telling my dad today i was like i haven't even started that yet but i really want to watch it

[01:49:43] me neither and i've heard it's incredible yeah i've heard it's really good and i just haven't started it yet and i'm on christin is one of the people on that podcast so i podcast with her

[01:49:54] every week unrevisited and like i have i takes it breaks my heart to tell her i haven't started watching yet which means i haven't listened to the podcast yet all right but uh next time on this

[01:50:10] podcast wheel of time season one episode seven and thank you ben for telling me that you could actually find the titles of the episode somewhere uh daystay mar i will give a slight spoiler to that

[01:50:21] that means that is the old tongue for game of houses but only two more episodes left this season damn it it's not enough but uh we'll be here right with you guys to talk out the last two episodes

[01:50:39] and i think for today though that's our show and i just want to say real quick before i close out that the writer strike has ended but with that being said let the dragon ride again on the winds of

[01:50:56] time it just sounds so good i can't do it man i beg you to send send me your cash up and i'll pay you i won't do that but okay all right i would do anything for a review but i won't do that sorry

[01:51:33] i'm tired i think we need to keep that in