16: "Daes Dae'mar" (The Wheel of Time S2E7)

[00:00:00] Hey everybody, welcome to our podcast. I'm Greg. And I'm Veronica. And this is The Wheel of Time Cast. And this week we're covering The Wheel of Time Season 2 Episode 7, Daes Daemar. Alright, so the Daes Daemar, what would Amazon give us? Do they elaborate

[00:00:40] on how their great summary last week? It was really almost a spoiler to read this one. So this Amazon summary says, a familiar face foils more rain and rands plants. Oh good. Fantastic.

[00:00:57] That's that's great. How'd you like this one? Feel a little mixed. Like there were a lot of things I liked about it. I in general left was left feeling a little unsatisfied.

[00:01:11] I think that's because so much of this felt like a setup for the finale. But I wasn't like I enjoyed everything I got. I just wanted more. I get that. It feels so unsatisfied.

[00:01:27] If you don't know that, that is John Nakavitch from Rounders. If you haven't seen that, watch that. It feels so unsatisfied. I'm really, I'm so excited for next week. Not that I wasn't

[00:01:45] excited to see some of the stuff. But I'm very, very excited for you said it. This was a lot of setup, right? This is the calm before the storm. And it wasn't even

[00:01:58] all that calm. It was just before the bigger storm. This is like the mini storm before the before the big storm. It's the fall before the storm. Oh, I see what you're saying. It's a really

[00:02:09] bad pun. All right. But yeah, so I one of the things that I have enjoyed about the show and it is a little bit easier for me because I know the story is that each episode is so dense.

[00:02:30] And there is just so much that they cover from week to week. We could probably sit and dissect each plot line and talk for two hours on each plot line, at least each major

[00:02:47] plot line. But that's not what we're here for. What we're here for is to kind of not sum up, but like discuss the things that we really liked about it and then take note of the other things.

[00:02:57] But because it is so dense, because we did have so many back and forths, I do want to kind of do a little bit of a this is what we saw, right? So we saw they've got the vague summary from

[00:03:10] Amazon and we'll do the more specific summary that we'll do. So things that we saw. We saw what happened 20 years ago regarding why Moiraine changed from a care, not carefree, but a fun filled happy person to someone who was just full of dedication to a cause.

[00:03:36] Then we go to Karheim. Sorry, damn it. Kairine. And in Kairine, I mean this is going to be just very, very broad strokes. So the Amalyn is there, meets with Moiraine, then Rand comes in and sees

[00:03:53] her. She decides, hey, we're going to hold you because Moiraine didn't teach you anything over the last six months. Rand's like, hey, Lanfeer, they like, can you get me out of Kairine? And she's like, all right, I'll have some people out for you. And then

[00:04:10] they break her out of, break him. Lanfeer breaks him out, but then other stuff happens too. And then like, okay, we're going to go to the way gate. We're going to go to fall because that's where I

[00:04:20] have to declare myself or something. And then Lanfeer, Kar swan, or the Amalyn, or geez, they're all different names, right? Amalyn comes in and like forces more, basically like compels Moiraine to follow her will against Moiraine's will. And then Lanfeer comes along,

[00:04:43] f's up the Amalyn and then they take off. And then over in Fallm, we got Aguin is like kind of flexing her one power muscles. And then Elaine and Iaver trying to figure out how to get

[00:05:01] Aguin out. And they talk to Loyal, and they're like, okay, well, I know how to get into this place, we have to like be a Suldam and a Damane. And so they like slap a collar onto a Suldam. Well,

[00:05:16] that's interesting. And then Perrin and Aviinda show up to Fallm or at least to where her sisters are. And then they eff her up. And then we learned some stuff about that.

[00:05:30] So now Perrin, Aguin, Naniyev and Elaine are all in Fallm. And then Matt was started in Kyrene, and then just appeared in Fallm where he had a bad trip, basically, and then it ends.

[00:05:48] So that's kind of our, you know, minute or less, maybe more summary. So that's the whole shebang, right? I guess I could have said, because it's spoilers to begin with. But hopefully they're listening to the podcast they've watched. And yeah, so really not that much happened.

[00:06:10] Yeah, like, I mean, nothing big. All right. So what questions do you have? Okay, all right. So, you know, you mentioned we got that flashback to 20 years ago. And so my first question was,

[00:06:27] what was that war that was going on that they were all very excited was coming to an end 20 years ago? So that was the IEEL war where the IEEL came into Kyrene and and that's the where the where Rand was working in the asylum and the old soldier

[00:06:49] came, oh, God, it's an IEEL. Well, they're they're talking he was talking about the IEEL war that happened 20 years ago and the IEEL came to the city and attacked for reasons. Okay. Yeah, that was the war they were talking about. And that IEEL those are the same

[00:07:08] group of people that Avienda. Okay, cool. All right. So then my next question is, can you remind me of the significance of braids? I know in season one, that there was something significant for it. No, was it for a Gwaine?

[00:07:29] When she was going through some sort of ceremony with Nine Yave, and there was a symbolism around the braid, but I just couldn't remember the details of it. So in the two rivers,

[00:07:42] you wear your as a woman, you wear your hair free flowing up until you are accepted into like basically your coming of age and into your leadership in your acceptance into the women's

[00:07:57] circle. So you are basically a girl and then you are when you're allowed to braid your hair, you are now a woman. Okay, is that all it is? It seems like so many,

[00:08:12] there's just a lot of braids going on throughout all of the female characters in the show and particularly it seems to be associated with the stronger female characters. And so I didn't

[00:08:23] know if there was more like, is that from the books? Is that just a styling choice in the show? I mean, that's not uncommon. You know, I feel like female warriors often have braids,

[00:08:35] so I would say that yes, the the braid stuff for Nine Yave and Gwaine are is very significant in the book. Like it's very prominent. Nine Yave, you know, like Gwaine will change her hairstyle

[00:08:52] from time to time. And Nine Yave almost like violently keeps hers in a braid. And when she gets angry, she'll like tug at her braid. So but Leandron was from a country called Tarabon

[00:09:13] or Tarabon or Tarabin or something like that. And and that was just the style like with a bunch of small braids. That was the style that Tarabin or women were known for for wearing their hair.

[00:09:29] Yeah. Okay, cool. I did see that I did see that like that the the multiple braids that Egwaine had. And then she was it almost seemed like she was defiantly putting her braid her hair

[00:09:44] back into one braid at the end of the episode. That's what caught me and sort of reminded me that there had been you know, and I think the very first episode of season one all of that

[00:09:54] sort of ceremony, her coming of age ceremony and the talk about the braid. And I didn't know if I didn't know if that was something pretty significant that she was signaling as she began

[00:10:05] undoing her braid there. The end of that scene. Okay, my third question is sometimes we hear people talking about like being a dark friend or swearing themselves to the dark one or sometimes

[00:10:23] it's just referred to as the dark. I just wasn't completely clear. Is there sort of like a in general like a dark side of the power versus like a figurehead of the dark one? Or is it always

[00:10:40] if you're leaning that way? Are you all in service of the dark one? Okay, so with regards to the show, I'm not 100% sure. I think it is very similar, but I'll go ahead and go off of the

[00:10:58] my book understanding. So if you think of it as there is in fact a God and there is in fact a devil and God is is represented here by the light, right? So the light we are united everyone

[00:11:22] uniting everyone under the light. And in this particular world, there is only one religion. I say only one religion, but only like one main religion. So the light and the dark,

[00:11:41] the light and the shadow. And so there is in fact a quote unquote dark one. And he has a name that if you name him, he bring his eye upon you kind of like Sauron. And then he will,

[00:11:59] he looks at you and you can like feel the effects of the dark ones eye on you. But the the, we'll say the dark side is kind of known as the dark or the shadow. Okay.

[00:12:13] Having said that, people who follow the light refer to him as the dark one, him or her or whatever you want to refer to him as. But the dark friends refer to him as the great Lord.

[00:12:29] Specifically Isha'a-Mael and and Lan'Fir will, you know, they toasted the great Lord's return or something like that. Okay. All right. Thanks. That's my three non-book reader questions for this week. Okay. Great. Okay. Well, we'll go ahead and take a little break and we will be right

[00:12:51] back. Welcome back. And now we are going to get into our highlights slash points of the episode. Veronica, why don't you hit me with your best shot? Okay, I'm gonna go with this as my first one

[00:13:09] because it made me giggle. So the nephew Barthenas is just an absolute idiot. I thought he was dumb last week when he went through the whole sandwich thing. And when it was revealed, you know that he actually is not too worried about sandwiches

[00:13:32] with his aunt, that he's actually a dark friend and Leandron comes in to tell him, you know, kill your aunt and kill your mom if you need to. For like half a second,

[00:13:46] I was like, oh, maybe I respect him like a tiny bit more than the guy who went in like begging for his aunt to like his sandwich as an adult. But then like ultimately no,

[00:13:58] I don't I don't I respect him less because I mean, you know, obviously, thankfully, his mom is smarter, much smarter than he is. And very easily thwarted his plan to go kill Moira and instead, she trapped him in a cell. I thought it was pretty, pretty awesome.

[00:14:24] As much as she really has a lot of animosity for her sister, she still said that line of, you know, there's two things my sister understands more than anyone, the difference between right and wrong and how much harder it is sometimes to do what is right, which is

[00:14:41] that was pretty awesome, especially because she was so disappointed in her son who couldn't make the hard choice to do what was right. And that explained how they had sort of gone from being really destitute to him suddenly about to become king. But man, that final scene

[00:15:01] of him like just like mother, mother from the cell and please don't do anyone please. And she's like, dude, I already did like no it's over. It is over. So all that was like a pretty not a reveal I was expecting and very, very satisfying whole and all.

[00:15:25] I get that. I mean, again, we go back to what we talked about a few weeks ago, like and veer is a character that has played a much bigger part than I anticipated. And I like it. I like the tying back together of Moiraine's family and childhood because

[00:15:43] he didn't really get that in the books. So we got a lot more, a lot more background into her and Barthena is in the books, but he is not the same character. And so he's

[00:16:00] this this was a this was a bit of a twist for me. Although when Lee Andron came in, I was like, like is an veer selling her out selling out Moiraine or

[00:16:13] or is it to is it just to another ice dye? Is it to the dark? And then as soon as Barthena was like, oh, I got some business to talk and like, oh, you son of a, I mean, to be fair,

[00:16:33] I didn't really get it. I didn't like it. It wouldn't confirmed until he said, you know, what does our master require of me? But I was like, oh, oh. Yeah, I mean, I totally thought she was just going there to manipulate Moiraine's family and try to

[00:16:51] see like what can I get out of them? Or maybe she's going to take, you know, the nephew, you know, take him captive to try to like, you know, do whatever she can to get to

[00:17:02] him. I was not expecting that. And I think it's just another reminder that like anybody can be a dark friend, you know, even sniveling nephews always be suspicious of people who rise too quickly. Yeah, yeah, definitely. Not always necessarily, but maybe always be suspicious. Don't kill them

[00:17:26] because you think that they are a dark friend. But yeah, that's I mean, that was definitely a good, I thought it was really cool little side kind of side story. And it gave, I thought it gave good explanation about the family and how

[00:17:47] things went from very poorly to pretty decent. Yeah, I hope we continue to see from Anvir more. I hope she continues to play a part. I think it's really for me, I have had a lot of difficulty

[00:18:06] as I'm sure a lot of people having any compassion at all for Moiraine. Like I think she is doing what she thinks is the noble thing and like that is respectable on some level, but she is very

[00:18:19] cold, you know, it crosses the line for me when she's cold to land. And so I think whenever we get additional backstory and insight into her, and I feel like we got that on a couple levels this

[00:18:32] episode, it really helps me, I guess just not hate the character. So yeah, yeah, I was a pretty like small first point for me. But yeah, I just I really enjoyed seeing I just I could not stand

[00:18:52] him last episode. And so it was just a very quick and satisfying demise for him. I wonder if he was killed it look, the first time I watched I thought he was killed. I thought

[00:19:04] they like stabbed him or whatever through the bars, but that didn't make any sense. Because you just moved away. But maybe maybe I don't know who she told, but you know, we'll see. I did enjoy that little minor storyline is like, Oh, okay, gotcha. Cool.

[00:19:24] All right, so I am going to take my little side story. And I'm going to discuss parent. And more specifically, parent and Avienda and her sisters, Bane and she had. So one of the things

[00:19:42] that I liked because it was really not about parent, right? It was about Avienda and her story and this particular, this particular setup. But the explanation of Gieto.

[00:19:55] And Gieto was the way of life for the IEIL. So G is honor. And to is obligation. So if you do something that where you lose honor, right? You have in order if you could do something that

[00:20:15] is I will say affects your honor. Like for example, Avienda was, you know, she missed something. So I was supposed to be covering Jillian's back when she got stabbed. And so she died. And so now

[00:20:35] I lost some G. And then I now I have toe. So it's a checks and balances, right? So it's like, Hey, if you can do this, or if you can't maintain this, okay, now you just have to pay

[00:20:48] this other, this other half to it. And so it can be, I'm assuming it can come in the physical form, it can come in some sort of money form, it could come in some sort of favors or something

[00:21:02] like that. But I think it's a, it's a cool thing. But one of the things that I really enjoyed about it is that once toe is, is met, it no longer exists, right? Yeah, it's a release.

[00:21:17] Yeah. Once, once you pay for it. Exactly. It is. That's exactly what it is. It's once you have atoned, it's like it never exists. This is in the first place. Now you can be

[00:21:26] reminded of it, but it's considered dishonorable to do so. And I'll tell you what, if I make a mistake on something, and then I do work really, really hard to overcome all of the,

[00:21:38] the things that all of the, the negative consequences. And hey, you know what? I drove too fast. And so now I got a ticket. Now I pay a fine and now my toe is, is met and my G is restored. That's maybe a very minimal example.

[00:21:59] Your insurance company will probably be very dishonorable and remind you that it happens. Yeah, the insurance companies have no G. But yeah, so, but, you know, let's just say that, hey, I was late for, you know, I was late for,

[00:22:20] for this. And so I bought you a beer. I was late to record. And so I bought you a beer. And so now my toe is met and my G is restored. And now we never talk about it ever again. How Greg got his G bag?

[00:22:34] I really like this. I like the idea. I, and I'll tell you what, Bane and she had, were not messing around. Like that was straight up some clothes, fisted, full body, full speed, punches and kicks and knees to the face. And I mean, don't get me wrong,

[00:22:51] she got her friend or other sister killed. So there's something worthwhile. But here's the thing that I really like about the books. She could have said it at any given point. Okay, that's enough.

[00:23:09] If she stops and she submits and says, no, I'm good. My, my, my toe is, is, is met. She's the one who has to say, Hey, I, that's, that's enough.

[00:23:23] I was just to say, I feel like there was a hint of that in the way it was portrayed in the show. I didn't know for sure. But you know, it seemed like once she stayed down, it was going to be over.

[00:23:35] But there was almost this look of enjoyment isn't the right word. But I think like the release that comes when you, you know, have a big cry or, you know, however you express a big

[00:23:49] emotion, right? Like anger, throw something and break it just like that release. Like she seemed to be having some sort of, you know, that same feeling of release, literally like coming across

[00:24:01] her face. And so it's, yeah, it's cool to have like confirmed that that that it was sort of her choice of sort of when she felt she'd released that enough. But yeah, I mean, so I mean, at least

[00:24:16] what I noticed was that she like very specifically put her arms and like face them up almost like in a very submissive position. And she's just like, let me have it. And so it really is up to

[00:24:28] the person. Now there can be people who are like, Oh, one punch. All right, that's enough. And they can be judged by other people. But it's kind of like, well, hey, I said I was sorry.

[00:24:44] Yeah, but you didn't actually do anything to like make up for it, right? Like you just said, you were sorry and whether you mean it or not doesn't matter. I like the idea of honor obligation and meeting that to your own, you know, basically the self-flagellation

[00:25:01] valuing your own honor system. I can very much appreciate that. Yeah, yeah, I think these might be like, I'd watch a whole show about the IO means of the spear,

[00:25:14] like I want to be one of them. I want to like hang out with them. You know, they're beautiful, they're strong, they're really cool fighters. They're pretty straightforward with what they

[00:25:26] say. And I even thought like how they use, I don't know, like they were using some form of like sign language to communicate with each other. Like I just thought they were cool characters.

[00:25:40] I'm excited to hopefully I think we'll see more of them at least next episode. But yeah, so in the books that's called made in hand talk. And like it's basically sign language. It's like their own version of sign language and it allows the Bidumi silent

[00:25:59] and they were very silent. And I did like a couple of the times, I think maybe only the once when Avienda signed all of this water, how she was looking at the sea and parents looking

[00:26:15] over at the towers of foam. I mean, I'm going to talk about this. So the IEL waste or the threefold land, it is basically a desolate desert in the during the breaking. Like it was

[00:26:28] completely wrought out of the sea. And so now it is a desert. And so they live here and then the what like Avienda said a few episodes ago. You know, it is for three purposes, it is

[00:26:44] proving ground or place for them to prove their strength, a place for them to atone for their sin and a place for something else that I can't remember off top of my head. But

[00:26:55] it is it is a hard land. And you know, the IEL have learned to adapt and overcome to that. And a part of that is protecting all of their water and valuing all of their water. At one

[00:27:12] point, she said my water is yours, Per and Ibarra. That's like a ceremonialist like, hey, I water is very, very valuable and you are valued to me. So I am my water is yours. Yeah, I really did

[00:27:27] enjoy the kind of the peaks into the IEL way of life there. We got a little bit of it, you know, a couple episodes ago, but a little bit better explanation here. Yeah. Yeah. And I loved that they were disappointed that parents

[00:27:45] feed a possible attachment to a wife was going to prevent him from lying with some of them, that one of them was going to be disappointed, but the other one went and care. So I'm assuming

[00:27:55] maybe no interested men from that one. But I just appreciated how straightforward that was and how it sort of looked like it embarrassed Per and a little bit. Yeah, that was that was funny.

[00:28:08] That was entertaining. All right. So what's your next point? Next point. I'm going to choose Eguane. It was so, so cool. So, so cool and impressive. And man, I say this, I feel like

[00:28:26] every character, I'm like, I love this character except for Moiraine. But I just love Eguane. She's yeah, I feel like she really proved herself as sort of a bad day this episode. And so I just, I mean that scene was pretty impressive, right? So they're out there with

[00:28:50] with her handler Rena and they're in front of the group of the domain and sold on pairs and they send that first pair out there to sort of set the stage of like, here's what we're sort of

[00:29:01] expecting the pairs to do as this show of power. And she does the puff of smoke and it or the puff of wind or whatever I guess you're like blowing stuff back. And it just like almost reaches

[00:29:15] the group and they make sure to say like, ooh, like pretty strong here. So that when it gets out there and just like blasts everybody away that you really know how impressive it is.

[00:29:28] So I loved it. I thought it was awesome. I thought it was really interesting to see Rena's sort of reaction to it all and how like the amount of pride that she feels that like

[00:29:42] having tamed this super powerful Demane and yeah, I just thought it was pretty cool. I think one thing that was interesting to me that happened because last week we were sort of

[00:29:56] trying to understand how much involvement you need from the Demane for the sold on to be able to pull from the power and direct it. And when they first walked out there, Rena said like,

[00:30:12] I'm not going to need any involvement from you. And she just immediately started pulling. So then my question is like, it did seem like when a Gwaine made the decision to participate actively that then things could be a lot more powerful. But so is there some level

[00:30:34] of power that the sold on can pull and direct just on their own without the Demane? Do you know this? Should you reveal this if you know this? Is it too spoilery?

[00:30:46] No, I'm just going to say that from what I can tell from the show, each Demane or each channeler has things that they are specifically capable of doing. Like they some of them are better

[00:31:00] with water, some of them are better with fire, some of them are better with air. What it seems like is that this explosion of air is just kind of a tried and true almost like a very standard

[00:31:14] measured. And so it's, hey, you know, we know that we can pull like the the Soudan have learned how to do this where this is the this is the weave that we're going to make. This is how we pull from

[00:31:30] our Demane and it will end this is you know that way it displays in the exact same manner every time what it seems like to they are trying to show is that the the Soudan can harness the raw power, but they don't have the knowledge of specific weaves.

[00:31:57] Or they have maybe they do have knowledge of, you know, X number of weaves, but they don't have like, but each but each like for example, each ace and I, they do their weaves just a little bit

[00:32:11] differently. Like they're all taught the same weaves, but you know, one will put a little bit of fire in this way, I want to put a little bit of water in here. And oh, this one like

[00:32:19] sprinkles a little bit of earth to make it to accomplish about the same function. But the Soudan just kind of have like a book is like, okay, it's almost like a video game

[00:32:30] controller, right? It's like, okay, you know, like if I go, if I go sweep in this way, BA, then that's what my character is going to do regardless of which character it is. It'll be a sweep the leg,

[00:32:41] right? But if I do this with if I'm just going back to Street Fighter two, if I do this with with with Ryu, it throws a fireball, right? Hadouken and then but if

[00:32:56] I do just a slightly different one with Gile, it'll show throsonic boom. And so it's it's effectively the same thing, but very slightly slight differences from one channeler to another. So I think that this is basically just a standard move that as she said can can show

[00:33:19] the limits and display the limits of her power in comparison to others there. I think there were two other things that stood out to me from this specific part of the scene with

[00:33:33] her. One was that how much power she displayed? And we know that Nine Nave is more powerful. She's not as good at directing her power. But like that was one thing that I was like, oh,

[00:33:53] crap, like what is you know, what are we going to see from these two as they really get a harness on all of that? And then the other thing that was really interesting to

[00:34:06] me is the way the beginning of this scene where she begins to channel is cut. And it cuts to her face right after Swan is talking to Rand and says it would have been so much easier if

[00:34:24] you were a woman. And it changes back to this scene right before she's about to channel like very close up on a Gwane's face. So I don't know what that means. Just always interesting.

[00:34:37] That I mean, that is that is interesting. Very, that is very pointed like, oh man, if only this extremely strong woman was in fact the Dragon Reborn and not you. Yeah, that is super interesting. I noticed the exact same thing as well. I concur with

[00:35:02] your assessment that that's interesting. I guess we can finish talking about if you want to finish up talking about the rest of how that situation, you know, after the display of power played out

[00:35:15] when they go back to the cell with Gwane and Rena since we're kind of on this part of it. I mean, that was just pretty, pretty awesome. I mean, we saw the beginning,

[00:35:28] or at least I felt like I did when Gwane did sort of lean into the channeling and looked over at Rena when they were still in the field. I had this moment of like, has she given in or is she

[00:35:41] look at what I can do? You should be scared. That's how I sort of felt she was looking at and then, you know, they go back to the cell. Yeah, and Rena is I guess trying to in this,

[00:35:57] you know, pretty to me weak display, but I think Rena thinks it's this. I'm showing you how much I care for you by washing you with this sponge. And Gwane just looks at her and says, Rena,

[00:36:10] I will kill you. And I just thought, OK, like she showed her how powerful she is so that it would really be meaningful when she said this to her. And then that's when Rena storms out and

[00:36:25] she begins unbraiding her hair, which felt very pointed in that moment. Well, you say that she was that Rena was was, you know, just washing her hands, but what she was doing was she was sharing the purpose of the Empress. She was sharing why she was gathering,

[00:36:43] like why why she needed to control Gwane, why she needed to have her leash because she and we together are going to help defeat the dark one. I can see how in that case you go, oh, I know why you're

[00:37:02] fighting because no one's explained to you that we're really the good guys. We're really, we're not trying to take over anybody. We're trying to we need to be have a combined united front so that we can

[00:37:18] defeat the dark one together as a whole, not as one, you know, one woman and a demonic. It's we're doing it all together. We are a team. Having said that, your dad, you're in a cult. Having said that, your teammates do not typically torture each other when they

[00:37:42] or placed compulsive devices on them. So like I don't go to I don't find, you know, Patrick Mahomes and put him put something on him that harnesses his capability to throw a football.

[00:37:58] No, he's able to do that and achieve that for himself. I guess maybe that's a poor, poor choice of example. But I mean, like it's again, kind of going back to the same thing that we talked

[00:38:14] about when when Rena was torturing the crap out of Gwain, you know, she thinks she's doing things for the right reasons. She thinks she's doing I mean, she is doing things for what she believes are

[00:38:29] the right reasons. And the same way that later, you know, other at another time in the episode Swan thinks she is doing the right thing. She thinks of Rand as a tool as a now I don't not 100%

[00:38:50] sure how they're going to make him channel in the direction that they want him to channel except to like torture him like an adame. But I don't know. But yeah, I thought that was

[00:39:06] really cool. A couple of couple of notes from those that that's seen out in the desert was that the lead Suldam had the center of the blue Ajah as her Demane. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then the I'm not

[00:39:21] sure why the ball gags are necessary. I guess it's just easy to identify them. I don't know if they're like implanted in their mouths, or maybe it's just to when they are pulling so much

[00:39:36] of the power is like maxing out their power use so they can like have something to chew on or to bite into. You know, almost like a hey, I'm going further than I can. So, you know, you could

[00:39:51] bite through like a piece of wood or something like that while you're having surgery done on you with no anesthetic. Oh, God. Yeah, I was looking at it just like, you know, when you muzzle a dog,

[00:40:04] right? Like they see them as these animals. I felt like it was just another way to sort of remind them they're in their place. They don't have a voice. But yeah, I don't know if it has more

[00:40:16] more meaning or power behind it. Yeah, that one. I mean, that scene was pretty wicked. All right. So I will go ahead and I'm going to hit a couple of different things here.

[00:40:34] Um, but I'm going to go with swan. All right. So where we see swan in this episode, right? We see her initially with Moiraine and she's there obviously lovers or at least if not, I mean, it sounds like she's going to go meet Moiraine's parents.

[00:41:04] And, you know, she's going to now that the war is over, we can go and visit car or Kyreen and and visit my parents and you can meet them because we are, you know, in love or whatnot.

[00:41:18] But then, you know, then the foretelling happens and you can almost see like the haunted look on swan's foot face after after guitar, Sidai dies. And so like they they had to have planned

[00:41:34] this together, right? So yeah, and just the two of them because it was tell no one it was just find the dragon and swan does her share by trying to rally the tower. But the next time we see

[00:41:53] swan, she is now basically telling Moiraine what a horrible person she is for not like you've written six months worth of letters, but you haven't you hadn't told me that you were still.

[00:42:08] If you had told me you were still you, I would make let me understand that you couldn't shield Rand if he started going mad. You know, you're just letting him do whatever.

[00:42:18] Like maybe you can teach him, maybe you can't, but if without the power, you can't do anything. And you haven't had him in your sight, you just had him. You know, he went off and did his thing

[00:42:28] and you went off to the farm and you know, went into into isolation. I think that's a pretty reasonable reason to be upset. Like you left the fate of the world to chance. I get it.

[00:42:43] But you know, at this point and all of the fish isms that swan uses, you know, fish wives and I want to row beside you. Although you're going beside her isn't doesn't quite mean the same thing

[00:43:04] anymore. But then she calls Rand boy and then he just like sasses her back. He's like, oh yeah, all right, fine. Is that how we're going to do this? But then she obviously shields him very quickly,

[00:43:22] very easily. And once she's made her decision, hey, like he's got to come into custody, puts him in a cell and then swans had such a strange series of events, right? She went from a sister in

[00:43:37] the blue Ajah to somehow becoming the emerald sea without telling anybody. She had to convince people that she was the one that needed to be raised to the emerald sea. But she's also made a ton

[00:43:49] of enemies. The tower is full of your enemies. How is the tower ready for you know, ready to to come together? It's just a portran. So like it's I think that she has not held up her into the bargain

[00:44:03] as much as more rain has not held up her in the bargain. It feels like both of them felt that they should both be doing something more. You will channel like a row mix fish.

[00:44:16] So it's I missed some of those. That's hilarious. Yeah, she definitely still still is true to her roots. Yeah. And then one one is that I could hand you like a bait fish. So I'm assuming like like a minnow that you would use as bait. Easy to handle.

[00:44:39] But I did like the fact that the tower loss. So what's her plan? Right? And I talk about all this. What's the plan? The plan is to keep Rand in a cage with someone, someone shielding him from now into the last battle and then

[00:44:57] or maybe let him out from time to time to stretch his legs or stretch his power or whatever. But the moment you drop the shield, like he's more than likely going to react back at you

[00:45:08] as opposed to so I don't really understand the the tower law and why it would be that way. Except I mean, unless you have something that is able to control a man who can channel similar to

[00:45:23] an adame. Yeah, I mean, it feels like she would have to assume that he was going to be willing to participate in this role. I mean, she said he was going to be their greatest weapon,

[00:45:36] not their general when she was first breaking the news to him. And I just yeah, I mean, I agree with what you said and I don't think I really recognize sort of how irresponsible her plan feels to be until we're having this conversation. Like I understood her frustration

[00:45:56] with Moiraine. I think that's the theme with Moiraine is that she often is not thinking about the people she's putting in danger with her actions. But I don't feel like this plan

[00:46:11] swans decided on makes a lot of sense either. And it's like, why didn't you try? If you found out she didn't have her power, why was it immediately? Okay, we completely changed the plan. Why wasn't

[00:46:24] it like, okay, let's still go with the original plan. But like, let's actually try to train him instead of what's immediately going to cage in him and telling everyone that he's here. I don't know. But yeah, good point. And then I will touch on the final scene.

[00:46:47] She not only is betrayed by her by the woman that she at one point loved. She feels so betrayed by her that she imposes her will upon her against Moiraine's will. And it is,

[00:47:07] like I said, it is to me, it's the same thing is right. It is you I am making you do something that you don't want to do. And it's the I am making you embrace the source. It is completely

[00:47:22] out of your control. But one thing that brings you the most, the thing that makes you feel the most alive. The feeling is not taken away from you but the control is. And you saw the I mean,

[00:47:34] I saw the tear come down Moiraine's face as she is being compelled to shut the way gate. And and you're just like, oh, man, I was saying the same thing that Moiraine was swan, don't do this.

[00:47:52] This is like it. You were basically saying the highest power in the land. I am most powerful. And so I can do what I want. And that's just a really, really scary. And for someone who

[00:48:08] loved Moiraine at one point, that's like she has to feel desperate. She has to feel like she has no other choice. And so I towards the end, I kind of had both the feeling

[00:48:25] you brought this on yourself as she is laying there waiting for, you know, asking Moiraine to come back. But then also I had a lot of pity for her because I can understand

[00:48:35] that the logic that she's got. But man, it's just hard to it's hard to defend somebody who compels someone to do something. Yeah. And I think it was so sort of, I guess, poignant the way it was

[00:48:52] against the backdrop of us seeing the beginning of their relationship right in the happiness they felt in this episode getting that flashback specifically in this episode where we were basically seeing them back near their beginning. And ultimately what at least for now seems to be

[00:49:11] their end, right? Like I don't see you coming back from some of these big hurts they've imposed on each other. I mean, I don't think Moiraine's actions in any way exclude excuse what Swan

[00:49:25] did this episode. I think it was unforgivable the way she compelled her and forced her body to work without her choice. Moiraine probably hurt her pretty bad having not been open with her about

[00:49:41] what was going on about being what they thought was stilled. That's a lot to come back from in a relationship. I don't see it. And so it was interesting to get to see the bookends of their

[00:49:53] romantic relationship at least what seems to be. I think bookends is right because I think that I think now it is done and there is no going back. It was very depressing. More sadness, great.

[00:50:14] One thing I wanted to call out from all of this is did you recognize the actress playing Gattara at the beginning, the older blue sitter? She looked like almost Kate McKinnon,

[00:50:28] but I did not recognize her. I was really excited. I was like, I recognize her and I looked up and Hayley Mills. She was a young actress. Yes. I mean, that was probably one of my most watched

[00:50:42] movies is the original parent track. The original two seasons of Save by the Bell as Miss Bliss Yeah. Oh, man. Oh, I knew she looked familiar. Yeah. So I was just excited. They've had some pretty cool

[00:50:57] pretty cool casting and cameos and I just was thrilled. I had no idea she was still acting. Like I'm now going to go on a deep dive on what is Hayley Mills been in recently because it

[00:51:13] was pretty cool to get to see her in something. And yeah, I didn't immediately clock who it was. I quickly looked up but yeah, really cool to see her. I thought she did a great job of basically

[00:51:28] experiencing Rand's birth as it happened from his actual mother or well what was portrayed as maybe Rand's birth I guess. I don't trust anything at this point. I do. I did think that like the her death was maybe a little just like, oh,

[00:51:51] she's just like I thought it was a little bit goofy. Look, don't come after Hayley Mills, Craig. Nope. Nope. I absolutely respect her body of work. But yeah, I was just like, okay.

[00:52:06] But I mean against the backdrop, like you said, it's the backdrop of what we saw last season in the death of what we are assuming is Rand's mother was pretty wicked. All right. So that finishes off my second point. I think because it was it's so dense

[00:52:26] this episode, I think we should both do four points. So we're going to take another quick break and we'll be back and hopefully wrap up our points without much issue but man,

[00:52:40] we got some talking to do. See you in a bit. Okay. Now back to rather back from some nice little commercial break. And all right. So Veronica, what do you have for your next point?

[00:52:56] Okay. Let's go with that goes on a trip. He does in fact. So as you gave us the overview at the beginning he was captured while in Kyrene. I have to really think about how to say that.

[00:53:16] I want to say car high and as well. Okay. He gets captured in Kyrene wakes up, he's in form land fears there. And so like seemingly she's you know still working closely with Ishmael

[00:53:31] but she does make this comment as she leaves like it's nice to be out of favor like she's doing this so that he'll owe her one which I thought was an interesting comment.

[00:53:42] But then Ishmael comes in. He asks Matt if he has trouble sleeping and like waxes a little poetic about how he carries the pain of the world on his shoulders and when he tries to fall asleep

[00:53:56] that's all he can think of. I love Matt interrupts him. He's like is this a sex thing or a murder thing? Because either way I'd prefer you skip the talking. I really liked that. That was funny.

[00:54:10] It was very Matt. But anyways though Ishmael bruised him the special tea saying like people forgotten not just things about magic but I guess they've forgotten about magic mushrooms too. And so here I've made you this psychedelic tea. He drinks the tea which is supposed to give him

[00:54:29] a glimpse of his past lives, a glimpse into who he used to be and an understanding of his true soul. I don't think I left this scene with an understanding of any of that other than

[00:54:43] I guess throughout his lives he has been killed and has killed a lot of people and caused a lot of pain over and over and over again. I guess we saw a scene of him having died by suicide. We see

[00:54:59] him slitting three people's throats. We see him drowning people. I think we see him being drowned in a bucket at one point. His mother keeps yelling at him basically very similar. Didn't she say something similar in season one to him? Basically saying like you're just your dad.

[00:55:16] I think exactly what she said yeah. Yeah. You're just like him I guess. And so then at the end he goes, his mother's laying on the floor. He turns her over. It's really just him holding himself

[00:55:35] and then it kind of like goes to black and then he wakes up. He wakes up in Ishmael's arms and I guess they basically, I don't know that I, yeah I guess the whole point you were supposed

[00:55:49] to take is just that his life and all of his past turns of the wheel have ended pretty tragically and he's either going to his demise or contributing to other people's demises. I guess is all you're

[00:56:02] supposed to pull from him. And he and Ishmael sort of continue their conversation as Ishmael cradles him in his lap and basically saying Ishmael's ultimate wish is a permanent death. Like not to keep getting turned out by the wheel, not to keep having to go through the pain

[00:56:25] and Matt's eyes glimmer and he asks how is that possible? And so obviously that is also this big draw for him. He wants to just escape the pain of this sort of never-ending cycle of life that they

[00:56:40] have, which I thought was interesting. I forget that sort of component of this a lot since it's a new a new concept to me since starting just watching the series of how when you die there is essentially

[00:56:57] reincarnation. Like the wheel keeps spinning you out into different lives and I guess there are echoes of your past lives that still somehow cling to you and maybe that's different for different people depending on their sensitivity to it but obviously these two are pretty burdened

[00:57:15] by it. Yeah, I mean I think you hit the nail in the head. I think that the thing that I do wonder, I did think it was funny you're just gonna sit there and not talk

[00:57:29] and just whittle but it wasn't whittling. It was making whatever it is for this tea. Was he like shaving bark or something? I'd never connected what that whittling had to do

[00:57:44] with the rest. That makes sense. Yeah he was just shaving little bits of the bark into the pot that he then poured the water into and then hey no more than 15 minutes and 15 minutes

[00:58:01] you know pour a cup for yourself but only one cup and no more than 15 minutes because it'll either be too strong or it might kill you or whatever. So I wonder if Ishmael modified Matt's dreams.

[00:58:18] If that was his actual, if that was like his actual past lives or if that was Ishmael basically showing him what he felt that Matt wanted to see in order to convince Matt to help him.

[00:58:36] I'm just not allowed to trust anything. I kind of forget that. I didn't even think of that. You know can't even trust the magic tea visions because it could be Ishmael. Yeah dang. It just makes me wonder. I thought that this was interesting like I feel like

[00:59:02] what he was seeing like I didn't see him slitting somebody's throat or maybe I did and I didn't notice that one or maybe I didn't notice on the rewatch but I saw that it was like not him

[00:59:16] who was drowning somebody in a bucket and then it turned into him and I wonder if it was like oh well it was your soul in that body and so now you're seeing who you were you know in one of your

[00:59:30] past lives. Matt has and this is not really spoilery but it's Matt has a very different story in the books. They are taking some things from pretty significantly if they are if they are trying to

[00:59:50] to kind of mix like get kind of keep Matt going down the same path they are kind of pulling some stuff from pretty far ahead in the books in order to I don't know if it's keep him interesting or

[01:00:04] keep him I don't know but I really I have no idea what's going to happen as far as that goes. I mean that's sort of my thing at the end of it all is where is this going why outside of the

[01:00:19] fact that Matt is important to Rand and to his other very powerful friends nothing has nothing that I've seen has made me feel like Matt is someone who would be this big win to have on

[01:00:37] the dark side of things. Well that's what Lynn Fierce said right I thought you'd be more impressive. Yeah I just I don't understand and I don't know where it's going if he wasn't sort of

[01:00:50] the chandler of the show and didn't have the funny comments and things like I really wouldn't care at all but at least I usually can count on even in a very heavy episode there's going to be

[01:01:03] something that he says that makes me chuckle but outside of that I just don't feel like I understand where the momentum is building for him. Gotcha. Yeah I mean at this point I don't know

[01:01:15] either. I was not a big fan of his pants in this episode where they were like grandpa pants where they were over his belly button right before right before land fear got him in Kyreen like

[01:01:30] he's like walking around and he's almost like he looks like you know grandpa Joe from Charlie Factory he was pants are up around his like nipples and he's just like I do not understand the the clothing choice there but all right whatever man. Land fear had another

[01:01:50] fire out well several like fire outfits this episode but I think when she dropped Matt off she had a pretty sick like jumpsuit again with the pockets she and Ishmael are very

[01:02:04] fashion forward in their attire. Yeah it's uh I did like what you're talking about as far as Ishmael said we're like the amount of knowledge that's been lost since the age of legends it's not just technology it's it's not just you know technology it's not just magic it's

[01:02:23] it's so much drugs yeah like hey you know you wouldn't realize the drugs are like this and look at how good your drugs could be you could see your past lives be really depressed afterwards

[01:02:43] you can see what I want you to see and then you could be more susceptible to my to my thoughts anyway okay so you you covered Matt all right thank you

[01:02:58] all right so I oh one thing with Matt is she he you know land fear took him and he said who in the name of light are you it was like oh that's a funny wording it's not the light buddy

[01:03:12] definitely not and uh all right so I'm just gonna I'm just gonna talk about the Elaine and Nine Yave it was reasonably short but I think it was important yeah um so first off Nine Yave is dumb she always wants to charge into wherever it is

[01:03:37] that she thinks she's supposed to go and without any thought thought or uh forethought or planning or anything like hey we just have to get there as fast as possible so we can do things and make

[01:03:49] things happen and Elaine's like you're a dumbass don't you don't make plans anymore I make the plans listen to me do exactly what I say um and so oh hey by the way uh the oak your friend that was

[01:04:07] he was with with with Perrin right uh yeah and then Perin Perin and Perin seeing Elaine I'm sorry not Perin uh loyal seeing Elaine was it was so comical to me and you what you said the

[01:04:26] last week where uh O'Gear remind you of ens I was like that's exactly what's happening right now there is no rush to my words because Elaine Trocant daughter heir of andor your yes yes your

[01:04:45] his name see your name sings in his ears forget it don't encourage her and uh oh she is kept in the kennels only so dumb or allowed to like I said it straight up remind like after you said

[01:05:06] ens I was like yep he is an ent and I really enjoyed the oils and then after watching Ted Lasso here recently have you ever have not seen it have not other than the first episode okay so uh

[01:05:22] in the second episode there's a moment where somebody is holding a door open and they hold for a long long time and oh that was a really long time to wait well I respect you for not

[01:05:33] speeding up that's that's how I felt it like Elaine's rather than nine years obviously freaking out at him if he's like no I'm going to finish my sentence and that is the way it is

[01:05:50] why are you being so hasty um but uh the customs very much must be observed I must say all of these words and they're very important um but he gives them exactly the

[01:06:06] information that they need in order to find what they need to find out so that they can go and the next time we see them oh what do you think this does and how do you think this feels

[01:06:19] I don't know but I hope it hurts I'm like I was really like are you putting it on each other like are you hope it hurts are you putting it on the lane are you saying because Elaine's

[01:06:28] being so sassy you hope it hurts and nope they are going to go find a sultana and and chain her like Elaine also bastard in the face pretty good immediately upon getting the color

[01:06:43] on so I felt I wondered if it was going to end up being that because Nine Nave can channel no one else would really know that it was coming from her and not from her fake

[01:07:01] Demane confident if that was what was going to happen because I know last week we talked about uncertainty of whether the sold on can channel or not I bet we'll find out next episode right

[01:07:18] we're gonna see I'm a short I'm assuming we're gonna see how that plays out right because I'm very curious because like I said I also had that uncertainty we were talking about how

[01:07:32] the power sort of flows and it does seem yeah there's this joint working together with it but also the ability for the sold on to just pull and channel secondarily so I think it's probably

[01:07:47] complicated and hopefully we continue to learn more but I still feel confused that's fair but that was basically it right it was like we saw them Elaine says no you're a big dummy

[01:08:00] you listen to me now they talk to loyal and then they change they color a sultana and that's it that's all we saw them for this this episode I felt like I was really stupid

[01:08:11] I mean even that plan for a variety of reasons but even just trying to pull loyal off of the street he was being everybody was noticing him they were all like here's this guy and look at his

[01:08:25] funny hair and he looks different than us and that's funny like everyone was noticing him and so then they like pull him into the side thing and he does his big kneeling you know proclamation to Elaine it all just seemed like you guys are definitely gonna get caught

[01:08:46] and I'm just curious yeah I'm really interested in seeing if I find their plan with this captured fake demane I'm just curious to see how that plays out and if I find it believable because it

[01:09:04] just seems like a lot of things could go wrong pretty quickly yeah like they didn't see that they had like a ball gag you know connected to the thing so I mean they're just gonna find like an orange

[01:09:17] and put it on a string and tighten her mouth that's the that's the costume all right yes that was my point what's your last point all right my last point will be I'm gonna use the same joke that I already used earlier but Moiraine gets her groove back

[01:09:35] thanks to land and so through a series of events of lands where it being suspicious about the way that Moiraine's been cut off from the source and trying to understand it and feeling like something just apparently he felt like something didn't make sense

[01:09:56] about it and I don't know earlier in the episode they have the conversation about how there's only been two women in history that have been cut off from the source that didn't end up dying by

[01:10:08] suicide and Moiraine basically says like she's never even been tempted because she's so dedicated to the cause of protecting Rand and I didn't know I'm just now thinking was that also part of the clues

[01:10:21] that made land feel like maybe she hasn't actually been like completely severed from it like maybe there's something I think so you think so okay I literally didn't connect that until just now that that conversation was actually another thing that tipped him over into being like I've got

[01:10:41] to find out more yeah I think that and I think this is what he was hoping for when he said I'm gonna ask you a question hopefully someday you'll forgive me for asking it

[01:10:55] you know did you ever even think about ending it because basically what his question was I don't think you have the full experience of being still I don't think that you have the whole experience of being cut off from the source or at least I'm suspicious thereof you

[01:11:18] know Moiraine was obviously you know damaged by being cut off but this was this this is something that this is something that is has was very is different from my knowledge tying off a weave

[01:11:40] and not having to constantly channel into it that was something that if I remember correctly was pretty standard in for all people who could channel interesting and here it was it's a

[01:11:56] it is a method or a practice that has been lost and so Ishmael with you know threads of side in cut her off from the source and then tied it off and gave her the impression that hey no one's

[01:12:14] channeling a shield on me I can sense the source but I can't touch it yeah so yeah no I think you're absolutely right I think I think that was one of the clues that put it together

[01:12:28] for for him yeah and so yeah then I just want to come out like briefly on the scene where he goes to see low gain who is who sort of confirms it for him that it is that not I thought was

[01:12:43] funny I think low gain said the most rational insane and most very insightful answer when when land asked him what he sees when he sees moraine he said I see her being a desperate lonely

[01:12:56] woman who has given her life to a cause beyond her understanding and land replies oh you're been here a year and you're still mad and it was like this is the most sane thing this guy has said

[01:13:09] to you like this is such an accurate and insightful description of moraine like this is her I get why I made land mad because that's not what he was really asking he then wanted what low gain

[01:13:22] ultimately revealed to him which was that you know she was tied off from from the power and I felt a little sad for low gain that he gave land everything he asked for and the land had just

[01:13:36] been playing him the whole time like I don't know I feel like low gain is really just been caught in the crosshairs of things like he truly believed he was the dragonry born we saw that he

[01:13:49] was not just a completely ruthless bad guy I just I felt particularly sad for him this episode with that way that land played him well the line after the one you talked about he says oh

[01:14:06] you're still a mad man no mad is expecting a straight answer out of someone you helped in prison yeah yeah that's also also very fair like honestly he seems unhinged but who wouldn't be when they're

[01:14:20] in solitary confinement for how long has it been now like you said six months I guess yeah um yeah I mean I think any anybody would be a little unhinged especially because he's been cut off from

[01:14:34] from the power and stuff so I don't know so yeah I mean the big reveal and then at the end that meant Rand was able to very unsteadily cut through the knot and really smoy reign I was like oh god

[01:14:50] he's definitely just gonna like plunge that right through her and kill her um I didn't really expect that we would lose her this episode but I just I wouldn't it was just like so shaky

[01:15:03] I was like oh god like it's honestly like probably a blessing that they couldn't see couldn't see that right because I think she might have been like wait wait wait let's let's stop let's think about this before you before you use that knife on my incision

[01:15:19] let's calm your hand down a little bit because like a surgeon coming in with like like a shaking hand like no thank you no thank you um and I really I just appreciated um you know the the actress's sort of

[01:15:40] display of what that felt like to have her access uh you know reinstated to be able to feel the source again um I thought she you know displayed like the immense amount of

[01:15:54] relief she finally felt but then after that freaking land comes up it's like I'm sorry it took me so long to do my duty I was like stop it like she's been terrible to you you did this

[01:16:09] amazing thing for her he comes to her and apologizes after doing this amazing thing to her and she doesn't even say thank you she makes like a some sort of like tisk noise and turns around

[01:16:26] and goes to opening the um gateway I just I feel like you're taking personal offense to to land treatment I am like it makes me really dislike her so strongly because he's just

[01:16:44] a wonderful stand-up guy and she's just so thankless so yeah did she say thank you or was she did she tell Rand thank you I think she told Rand thank you and like yeah he did like

[01:17:01] good job Rand like you did a good job you shakily held your power knife and cut through that is great but like land really like put himself out there time and time again to help

[01:17:16] Moirene and she has just been like no you suck I hate it okay that was my rant over I guess all right anything else on on the the not stealing the shielding of Moirene and the

[01:17:39] their thereby release no I think that was it I mean I think just like you said how this was interesting to me that the sort of exemplified limitations of the power at least or the use

[01:17:56] of power and weaves at least in the show I'm guess you're saying that was different a bit from the book but sort of realizing I think either they had already shown us this in a few ways

[01:18:07] because of the way that I said I had to sort of sit as guards but it was just a reminder one that there's that limitation um but apparently not for everyone so if you remember this old

[01:18:21] way you can sort of do things to people that are a little more long lasting but that was interesting I guess I'm still interested as they keep revealing more about how all of this works

[01:18:35] so just like another little clue to file away about how the source works all right so I am going to I mean I'm going to talk about Rand since he's basically the only one we

[01:18:48] haven't really uh we haven't really kind of gone in depth on um so one of the things the first time we see Rand is that he is talking to land and land is like kind of prepping him to talk to

[01:19:02] the amelon and then by swans uh conversation later she's like oh I see land is prepared you and she says you know he says I I am ready and she says oh are you boy I see lands prepared you

[01:19:16] and you're just like oh oh yeah all right fine a few then you know answer truthfully and then what they're like oh okay so one of the things that I thought was cool was that uh

[01:19:31] that land kind of looked at Rand's movements and recognized that he'd been learning sword forms and um I'm just gonna give a little bit of so the ones that we heard about here were Heron

[01:19:46] dips the wing uh so looking to someone to avoid someone who's trying to unarm you is what I'm assuming that is um and then what uh what land tells him to use in talking to the amelon or

[01:20:03] in going to speak to the amelon is to use cat crosses the courtyard and the uh in the books the cat crosses the courtyard is just like really it's described exactly how land did it where you

[01:20:17] know it's every muscle loose but like you're being held by a wire at the top of your head but it it almost gives you like a saunter like it's almost like a a sense of arrogance

[01:20:29] like a cat hey I am the king of this of this yard or this house or whatever I'm just I am I'm you know just singing the bare necessities you know swinging my tail across the

[01:20:44] courtyard and uh and like I said in the books it's like it almost gives like an air of arrogance which is is funny going to go talk to the most powerful woman in in the country

[01:20:57] or rather like in the land and you're you're walking in here with uh with a some an air of heavy confidence is this is this sort of like so I'm hearing this sort of wording and description of forms

[01:21:13] is common throughout the book is this a common sort of phrasing of things in in like martial arts or sword play or things in general because I've read this there's one other book series that

[01:21:28] uses this sort of you know phrasing really commonly in fight forms and then this is only other time I've heard it and I didn't know if it's just because I don't read a lot of books

[01:21:40] that go into into the in-depth of fighting or if this was something a little more unique do you know um I I mean I I do not I'm not familiar with like massively familiar with martial arts

[01:21:53] but I would imagine that there are uh I mean like you watch karate kid and they have the ready stance and they have the I mean just like with yoga right like hey go to child's pose go to

[01:22:09] go to you know and so we we come up with these names for these things that you know Tai Chi we are we are maintaining balance we are increasing the flow of our of our bodies we are doing

[01:22:24] whatever it is to to uh wax on wax off right it was hey wax on and it wax off wax on wax off well now show me hey I'm going to hit you wax on oh it's like this and then wax off

[01:22:39] oh you're blocking it like that and so I think that's the intent right it's it's you you you learn these forms and then you can put them into play in a in a fighting method yeah

[01:22:52] um so yeah I think that I think that they are that is relatively common um but I think that from one world to another between books or tv shows or real world or one martial art to another you'll have

[01:23:09] different names for similar style poses okay cool cool like I said I'd only heard it I'll actually it's a series called um the king killer chronicles the first book is called name of the wind

[01:23:23] it's supposed to be a trilogy I don't know if this author will ever actually write the third book even if he doesn't like I love these books so much and they feel so in theme with the wheel

[01:23:35] of time series like I really think if you enjoy this you would probably enjoy that and I don't think there's many other series that I'd be like yeah read it when there's not actually

[01:23:46] conclusion but it is just so good and so it's just like all the world building of this but that's the other series where there's sort of this you know heron dips the wing and cat crosses the courtyard

[01:23:59] stuff that is pretty cool there was uh they also that same group that does those does like this additional like type of sign language similar to what we saw this episode with avyanda and her

[01:24:12] group and so it was just things that kept reminding me of that series so wanted to throw it out there yeah no I'll have to check that out that sounds good um all right so then uh brand's like oh well

[01:24:27] I guess now I'm locked away what's happening to me you've been shielded oh it's funny because more more reigns like I know exactly what this feels like because I'm experiencing it right now

[01:24:40] oh it's a shielding um but again she doesn't know what it likes what it feels like to be still she just knows she can't touch the source and she can sense it just out of reach

[01:24:50] so then rand is down in the cellar or I guess in the the prison or whatever yeah you call it but they but she does they do address that uh hey she has to keep

[01:25:04] channeling in order to keep you shielded um and so hey like that's the law right and not the law but like that's like the law of physics or the law of the power is that you have to keep channeling in

[01:25:15] order for something to be continue taking effect um but then verin comes in and I loved the I loved the wording to the point where I wrote it down uh verin comes in to talk to uh liana

[01:25:32] and she says the aerolin requires your strength to protect kairin okay she requires your strength to protect kairin god because they can't lie yep I've been told to watch the boy I was told by

[01:25:49] moirain that to to watch the boy this is an order liana said I from me to you this is an order I'll take his shield and so and then well and then moirain even comments on it right she goes uh you

[01:26:07] are very uh I remember what she you were very nimble with your words or something like that and uh and it was like oh man that's pretty cool very cool um I keep missing those so one of the

[01:26:24] one of the things that I and and I'm gonna tie it back I just I just want to talk about I guess I'm just because we're gonna cover all of the all of my notes in the points because we

[01:26:36] did an extra point each um but one of the things that I noticed was that like ran's power like saiden is almost like jaggedy and I don't know if it's due to his experience or if

[01:26:54] it's or lack of experience or if it's that's what the power is so like logane told him no no you can't surrender to it you have to grab it and make it do what you want but all of the descriptions

[01:27:09] from the ice at eye to like a guine and in nine yave are surrender to it let the water you know you love the water the river flow through you and you just direct it as you can you let it flow

[01:27:21] as opposed to forcing it to do what you want but then uh so like in the the pilot episode like way back last season moirene is going and pulling all of the bricks out right I think she's

[01:27:38] using air to remove all of the the mortar around it and then she's using air to propel it through the air and that was all like a very misty power um land fear is I was like is she using like the

[01:27:53] dark power that she used to like heal herself or is she using the one power or what's going on and then she was using something very similar to what uh a guine was using where she like wraps it around her

[01:28:09] finger and like just squeezes her her fist like a detonator and then the gait explodes and uh and then but then every time we see a shield put on it is more of that clear like covering them and kind

[01:28:26] of and then whenever it evaporates it like you know those clear threads or whatever puff um so I because they they talked about like I said very very Hogwarts-ish so that I think that the

[01:28:39] the light clear one is spirit um air is typically more like a misty one fire is um is like orangish I haven't I haven't seen earth if I or maybe we have I wanted to go back and take a look at where

[01:28:59] Alana was teaching them to to pour the water. Yeah I think we might have seen it there but just like a small thread or something. Yeah and uh and so just trying to identify what each person is

[01:29:11] using as they're as they're doing it because like Rand's like jagged jagged dagger of power there was at this point I can't remember what it was but I was just like what is he using there is it

[01:29:24] is it spirit? I think it was two things because I think that was the scene where he pulled fire from I think land was holding a torch and I saw something pull from that but then there was

[01:29:39] another color weaving into it. So I know that because he's a part like because he's pulling on side in there is the thread of black from the dark one um it's like the the dark one's taint

[01:29:53] that we see in like the we saw with Logaine like the talking like shadow person over his ear but yeah I'm just like like I don't think we've seen have we seen Ishmael channel at all?

[01:30:09] No I'm not certain maybe when he was calling on land fear did he? Maybe I can't. I would love to just see a montage one after the other all the clips of the power

[01:30:22] usage um and to think about it one just because I think it's kind of cool and two um to really think about like what what weaves they're pulling in because that's not something I've been as

[01:30:37] cognizant of because in the show they've mentioned it but they haven't focused much on that piece of it and so I sort of forget that there's all those different ways they can weave it together.

[01:30:48] Right. But yeah so then then at the end Rand was like no no if you you won't hurt her if you won't hurt Moiraine if if you want me to help you oh you're so much more like lose every day and

[01:31:03] like I don't know if that's good or not but okay uh I guess we'll just keep going then. It's working to keep land fear helpful to what he wants her to do I guess. Well so she she walked into the way into the ways and like channeled

[01:31:21] that her little torch uh like fire into her torch and so but I thought that at some point Moiraine said not to use the power in the waves but I don't again maybe I'm that she did in the

[01:31:37] books I don't know if I don't know if that was the case in in the show or not but uh yeah land going or rather Rand going to land fear to be like hey can you get me out

[01:31:50] because he was at one point he's like so if they want me to go to fall they wouldn't like it if I'm being held by the amulet and she's like uh yes he's like okay well I gotta take a nap real quick

[01:32:04] oh cool I'm here can you get me out well isn't Moiraine gonna help you yeah I probably don't need you uh I love it when you try to manipulate me I thought it was there were some some good lines

[01:32:19] I I don't like her I mean I know she's like a bad guy but I really enjoy her character land fear in general and sort of how sassy she is and when she did show up then uh just like casually like

[01:32:37] shooting fire and just like strolling through town as she burns it to the ground like she's an enjoyable character to watch I think yeah she is she is fun um you know as you said not

[01:32:50] necessarily good per se but fun yeah um and uh yeah so like his he's specifically like he's trying he's just trying to do the right thing kind of like Ben was talking about last week he's just

[01:33:04] trying to do the right thing yeah but uh and so that's pretty much it do you have any notes that we haven't talked about I think I have like just like a two or three things um one is I don't

[01:33:18] know if you caught on to this and I think it might be really important for any male watchers of the show but land gave you the ultimate rule above all others for being a man

[01:33:31] and it is whatever comes you face it on your feet so I just wanted to make sure everybody had that really sound advice um it might help you be be a really uh be really important for

[01:33:44] being a man apparently I just found it funny that that was the most important role of being a man do you have any other notes um the oh I had one and then I started thinking about what you were

[01:33:59] talking about um so like Lanfeer she's just like looks at things and can just like explode them and then I'm assuming she has like a little like we'll just say like a tent of air in front of her

[01:34:11] so that as the explosion to the the bridge or the the gate happens like none of that shrapnel hits her I mean I'm sure she's thought of all these things but uh she's like man this is wildly

[01:34:24] irresponsible if you could get hurt by what you're what you're doing at this place she just yeah she didn't seem to care and she's like that's it's fine um and then oh all the politics

[01:34:39] between Alana and like the fact that Alana uh and her waters they are treated as equals like she treats them as equals so like the two the two waters uh it was two versus one

[01:34:54] yeah waters wanted to split up and she didn't and he's like nope two versus one okay fine and so you know she lets Tom or uh lets Ivan go after after Tomas um and then as they came

[01:35:09] all together at the end where Alana's like you don't have to carry your burden anymore you know alone Moiraine um and then but then all this oh I heard the last the last note that I had was

[01:35:23] that um the Amarlin to put out the fire she didn't like oh channel water into the thing she she and all of the sisters linked and then she like channeled up into the clouds and formed

[01:35:40] some sort of storm weave or something I loved that was really cool didn't know they could call the storm down yeah she's like uh yeah we gotta we gotta we gotta do the do our thing and so but you

[01:35:55] notice they weren't they didn't continue channeling into it they didn't hold it there they held it there for a little bit let the storm start to form and then stopped but if they had that knowledge

[01:36:04] of how to like tie a weave off she like send that up there tie a weave off and then also maybe that's a little dangerous to like set a storm and then just walk away a permanent thunderstorm

[01:36:16] yeah so maybe not the best idea but yeah um I did I did think uh a lot of that stuff was was pretty cool but that's all I have for notes I have one last thing and it's just that I'm absolutely

[01:36:33] resigned to Maxim dying next episode because after they say Ivan off he and Alana had a little private moment and as he was saying it I was like no because he started saying how much

[01:36:52] he missed the farm and anytime a character talks about being wistful about some peaceful place they would rather be than the worst or fight they're about to go into I feel like that is

[01:37:07] always the show just like broadcasting well they're never gonna get to go back there because they're gonna die so I hope I'm wrong because I really love that trio but I am preparing myself

[01:37:22] that he may not be long for this world because he broke the golden rule yeah the don't wish for some peaceful happy happy thing to go do because then you're gonna die yeah the the line that

[01:37:37] Alana had uh did you think we were gonna fight the last battle against a bunch of kittens yeah that's pretty good but yeah I thought I see I see your point um oh oh let me just look off into the distance

[01:37:53] and think about how forsaken dragon reborn uh okay don't worry man you're not gonna have to worry about that real long I really hope I'm wrong but it scared me

[01:38:10] all right I think I think that's it that was a lot that was a lot I'm excited to see how this season wraps up I am scared that they only have one episode to wrap all this up in for the season

[01:38:24] maybe it's gonna be like four hours long that'd be awesome four hours we could do four podcasts on the finale but all right uh well that finishes our points and our notes so we'll go ahead and

[01:38:39] take another quick break and we will be back welcome back all right so uh now moving on to news about the wheel of time I have no news because all I can find are recaps that other

[01:38:54] people have written and uh I don't want to read a recap because we just recapped it pretty good I think anyway uh so we'll move on to our favorite part well my favorite part of the show

[01:39:06] listener feedback so from Facebook Veronica you want to hit the first one yeah we had a comment from Mary Patricia DeRigio um she says really enjoying the podcast especially because I didn't

[01:39:20] read the books there's so much I miss in each episode this week was thrilling I'm still a little confused about what happened but I'm sure you guys will explain it I just loved that Aguain

[01:39:31] is learning to play the game I felt like she was holding back on her demonstration and one day she's just going to bust out of that collar was not surprised more rain's nephew was a dark friend

[01:39:42] I suspected as much when her sister commented how much power they had amassed ah that was smart I was not that smart Mary and was completely surprised but yeah I did not pick up pleasantly

[01:39:56] surprised how that played out um so uh one of the things I was thinking Mary Brookings is a good point I was wondering if if Aguain was was like trying to hold back if she was trying to not

[01:40:11] or if she or like you mentioned that when she kind of like got into it I wondered if she actually got into it or if Rena was like Aguain like hey you let go give me give me what it is

[01:40:25] that you you've got I know you could do more than this and she's she was basically trying to hold back the dam and uh and then eventually Rena busted it down I mean she's if that's true

[01:40:40] and I kind of hope it is and I can totally see that I mean she's just gonna be a nuclear bomb I mean if that was her holding back and then yeah night night just flattens phone gosh

[01:40:55] all right uh JC Harris uh commented I'm still catching up on episodes both watching and listening to the podcast but I wanted to say quickly that I'm really enjoying the podcast with Greg and Veronica hey thanks JC appreciate it every time Veronica asks a question it's spot on

[01:41:10] I have all the same questions confusion and understanding misunderstanding etc you two are excellent your coverage analysis thank you hey thank you so much oh thanks I'm blushing I'm so glad yeah Veronica does ask very good questions and then I just uh I don't know I rely on

[01:41:30] the seers I had the fortella what is what is going to happen well you're very good at it you're great at answering the questions I'm glad glad we've got

[01:41:42] you all right uh our last feedback was from Eric Emrick and they say a lot of setup we shall see how they can get everything in form into one episode I continue to love land fear and how

[01:41:56] they demonstrate how easy it is for her to channel Moiraine's concentration to open a way gate and she just goes through like a supermarket door Randall need the help of fate to get through

[01:42:09] this interesting to keep seeing fulmes tall tower with a battle in the sky prophecy about to conclude dot dot dot oh actually that's the that was the note that I they they kept talking about uh

[01:42:23] and you know Britain he'll he shall proclaim himself above toman head yes banners across the sky and fire yeah oh yeah that was that was the note that I that I couldn't remember from earlier um

[01:42:38] but thank you Eric that absolutely reminded me about that yeah and that commenting just I think as we've noticed just how easy uh everything comes to land fear and just how powerful that

[01:42:52] makes her seem compared to even someone like Moiraine who has had years and years of experience and it takes her all this concentration to open the way gate and land fear is just like

[01:43:04] going through yeah um pretty cool one visual I thought was really cool one when when Matt walked out from like the height the tall tower in form like I thought the vista was absolutely stunning yes and uh and then when swan just like straight up was just like

[01:43:23] like you almost heard like the knives coming up from like the the peacock or the turkey or whatever you hear like it was almost like it was like hearing Wolverine's claws come out yes and

[01:43:34] then land fear just goes sit down sit down girl um I got this thanks yeah her she's like uh like a porcupine like sticking those out every time I I guess we saw

[01:43:49] that for the first time last episode when uh land and Alana sort of rolled up on her caravan without warning and she did that sort of like halo of knives that go out yeah that's like an

[01:44:02] if that's like an amelon thing or if that's a swan thing or or what but anyway uh all right so that's our show uh thanks for listening everybody if you'd like to write in a recorded message and send it in uh you can go to do that um

[01:44:18] at podcast.com like right there on our uh on our uh when you could pull up the wheel of time cast um the little little green tab over on the right that you can record a message

[01:44:33] or you can email it to us like where you can record like a voice memo and email it to us at talk at podcast.com you can also check out our facebook page and leave uh feedback at facebook.com

[01:44:47] slash podcast.com so Greg posts a feedback post and you can comment on that as well yeah I'm trying to try to share that in a few places so that uh it's kind of got widespread like hey if you

[01:44:59] if you see it make a comment we'd love to hear it um other podcasts that are going right now so I actually finally just watched the first episode of Daryl Dixon and like it's it's good I'm just

[01:45:12] saying it's good um not but I I'm really excited to get into Ahsoka um been trying to decide what it is I'm gonna watch. I just dipped my toes in I'm two episodes in

[01:45:28] and I got to listen to the podcast um you know I think I would listen to Jonathan Book-Ali like read the phone book like similar to you Greg he has a great voice for podcasting

[01:45:40] but um it's Kristen who's also on there yeah Kristen and I last heard her I in more recent years listen to podcasting as coverage of Game of Thrones and she was just so awesome on there and

[01:45:53] it's really nice to have a female voice on one of the Star Wars casts I haven't listened to all of them but most of them have been pretty like die dominated which is fine everyone's doing a

[01:46:05] fantastic job but it's really nice to hear a really passionate Star Wars fan that's also female um on the podcast and so definitely enjoying Ahsoka and really loving their coverage so far

[01:46:19] awesome yeah I I actually literally just listened to uh to Kristen and Ben doing there the pilot of Ted Lasso and like she one of her descriptions literally just brought tears to my eyes because

[01:46:34] I was just like oh my god it's so awesome uh that's on the on the revisited podcast yeah I'm that's my other thing I think I'm gonna try this week to get going on this since I haven't

[01:46:45] watched Ted Lasso at all before um other than one episode I want to jump onto that as they do the revisited pod on it yeah no I I absolutely agree that is that is where you should go

[01:46:58] next time on this podcast Wheel of Time season one episode eight what was meant to be all right that's our show let the dragon ride again another winds of time