6: "Blood Calls Blood" (The Wheel of Time: S1E5)

[00:00:00] The Wheel of Time These humans never taking time to properly. Hey everybody, welcome to our podcast. I'm Greg and I'm Wendy And I'm then and this is house podcastica the wheel of time edition This week we're covering the wheel of time season one episode five blood calls blood

[00:01:10] This was a little bit different of an episode more of a centralized storyline Even if all three parties were doing kind of the same thing Wendy, how'd you feel general thoughts? I Think we're really delving into the characters in this episode and I am loving that

[00:01:33] I'm already super attached to several of the characters and we're getting to know them better and That's what I liked best about this it had some really dark parts in it

[00:01:48] Yeah, I mean it definitely had dark parts. Yeah, and it dealt with like a lot of a lot of emotions that you don't necessarily Want to feel if you don't have to But it makes you more connected to them. It really does. Absolutely. Yeah

[00:02:03] they they did a great job this week of Making me feel really attached to a character that did not stay very long Yeah

[00:02:15] You know only what two and a half episodes if that I don't even think it was that I think it was an episode and a half episode and a half Yeah, yeah, I mean actually the first time we saw a step in was was it yesterday or yesterday?

[00:02:27] Last episode last episode episode when they were doing forms. Yeah But oh, yeah, sorry, I just stole someone's point. No, no you didn't know you didn't it's fine But Ben how about you I really Wendy you're pretty spot-on like it really dove deep into characters and

[00:02:56] We we said goodbye to a couple we were introduced to one or two new ones and The stories that we got in just one episode Made me attach even more to characters. I was already attached to and really

[00:03:15] Really looking forward to finding out even more about some of the ones we've already known since episode one This was a very character-driven episode Yeah, I mean I think that That all of the the talkie talkie People who you know aren't I mean in all honesty

[00:03:38] My first time watching this at the end of it. I was kind of like Well, that was a little bit underwhelming and then on my second watch I Was like oh well, this was you know, this was cool

[00:03:53] Like I know I like that you know, I like this part and oh this was this was pretty good and And I realized then like I looked at my notes and I was like holy crap a lot of stuff happened. Yeah

[00:04:04] Like there are just just me just flashing from one story to another and how How they they sequence them And when I go to I you know as I've said before the first time I watched it

[00:04:18] I just kind of soak it in and just initial feels kind of the same way that I That I would watch like a walking dead or whatever when I'm not analyzing it deeply or whatever That's why I have podcasts I listen to

[00:04:30] But but yeah when I when I got into it and I like looked at all the stuff that happened I was like oh man like there was there was a ton of stuff in this one and

[00:04:40] As you guys said most of it was was driven to make us connect more with the characters And so yeah, that's And I and I feel like as weird as it may seem like this is only episode five But there are only three episodes left

[00:05:01] So at the same time while that was a very character driven episode it also felt like okay, they're reeling everything in Because they're bringing everybody back together Mm-hmm So they're while it's a very character driven very emotional episode it also you can also tell in some ways

[00:05:19] It's like okay We're gearing up now to head towards the end game or at least the end game of this particular chapter of the story Yeah, it definitely seemed like I don't I know that the negative connotation to the the phrase setup episode

[00:05:36] but I feel like they did a really good job in Making it a set up at episode and like getting everybody back together For the most part but also Utilizing that time To to do things and to make us connected to those to those characters so

[00:05:59] Okay, so moving into the top three highlights for blood calls blood What do you got Wendy number three? So my number three is The torture scenes with Child valda this guy is just a creepy fuck You know his his smiling and his

[00:06:30] Kind of jovial banter and yet he's got a knife and he's flaying parent the Juck's deposition between those things are just awful and every time I see him I flinch and I'm like what is going to happen here? I

[00:06:47] It it was almost too much for me the them showering a Gwayne which is such a violation and You could just see the pain that she was going through and they removed her braid Which she has had intact since the ceremony in the very first episode

[00:07:09] And like why why did they have to wash her and put her in a white gown? I think it's just part of the torture like to take you out of your element and I Had a little trouble watching all of that

[00:07:27] When they were flaying parent when he when child valda was flaying parent his eyes glowed gold What does that mean? Is he a werewolf? Are there gonna be sparkly vampires in this? I need to know please no I I can neither confirm nor deny sparkly vampires

[00:07:50] Parent finally tells someone about Layla and I thought that was really important and good that we finally heard him talk about it And I loved that a Gwayne Like thought he might die there She thought I think she thought that child Valda might kill him there

[00:08:07] And she wanted him to die knowing that it wasn't his fault and that he was a good person So so I read that differently. I read that as You are going to spend the rest of your long life

[00:08:23] You know learning that you did nothing wrong because I'm gonna channel I'm gonna be the one that dies and then you're gonna get let go When she said you're gonna spend the rest of her the rest of your life figuring that out

[00:08:37] I don't think she had accepted that either one of them was gonna die because she was still fighting But I do think she probably thought it was possible that one of them was gonna die and she wanted him to know that

[00:08:52] You know what what happened was an accident and that that didn't make him a bad person I I loved that you could see how those two had become closer over the last couple episodes and I thought that was really good And then I thought

[00:09:09] It Gwayne tricked child Valda She was like channeling a small burst at him while really she was concentrating on burning parents ropes and You know why why was this why did that come as a surprise to child Valda?

[00:09:27] He seemed very unprepared for her to have any powers although that was trying what he was trying to elicit in her And he saw the gold eyes of parent and he seemed really shocked at that you could you could see he said what are you?

[00:09:43] And then they both attacked child Valda together So I'm assuming a Gwayne saw the gold eyes as well And then were either of you screaming double tap because I was I was like no no keep stabbing him until there's nothing left

[00:10:01] So I what it looked like is that she stabbed him in the shoulder and then the knife got stuck Because he was trying to pull it out when he was on the ground. Yeah But I mean I can I can understand where you're coming from

[00:10:16] I was like no no keep killing him keep stabbing him and Then Yeah, I wanted them to make sure he was dead, but of course he's gonna live and Then the wolves helped at first I thought those were the gypsy's dogs

[00:10:32] But I think that that was the pack of wolves, right? That was the wolves. Yeah. Yeah Helped to save them which was super handy Yeah, very very convenient I did think that the the violence of the wolf attack while Not quite

[00:10:53] Some other shows as far as they go in in other shows They they definitely had Had some some pretty severe Like so some pretty pretty gory portions of that Although as you mentioned, you'd already literally just watched someone be stripped and Played like a ham

[00:11:15] Well, not just not just parent but like a Gween being stripped it like the it reminded me of Shawshank redemption And 12 monkeys where they're naked and just scrubbing them down to remove any contaminants or whatever Yeah, it was it was it was definitely definitely a

[00:11:38] You know, I talked about last couple episodes Like I was like oh, okay. So now this to me is the most interesting thing that's happening So this is like I definitely liked that storyline the best this week

[00:11:54] Yeah, well, that's and that's actually my number my number three as well And I wanted to say is that all it took was a little conflict to make me finally interested in the tinker story

[00:12:08] Because I haven't been interested in that story for the past two episodes. It's been kind of boring We talked about that last episode where Hmm, you know that was the only the only storyline of the three that we had last episode where nothing happened

[00:12:22] all we got was the tail of the leaf and That was really all we got this week We finally you throw in a little conflict and I'm finally interested in that story Even though it ended with that conflict because they ran away from the tinkers

[00:12:37] so they're no longer with the tinkers any longer and You know, we fast forward to child Valda keeping a Gwain and Perrin as you know as captured and Trying to force a Gwain to to conjure

[00:12:51] But one of the things I did take notice of especially more upon my second viewing is that the angrier Perrin got as he was being held There were wolf howls in the background. Yeah

[00:13:04] So I don't know if you took notice of that Wendy other than even before his eyes went yellow There were wolf howls in the background every time he got upset or angry and at the end he sounded like a wolf

[00:13:19] Yeah, I mean like you when he when he broke out I Thought some crazy shit was gonna go down Crazy shit did but I thought it was gonna be more involving him Well, and and we've seen foreshadowing of this of something like this coming since since the beginning

[00:13:36] I mean we had the first scene in episode 2 where they were looking his wounds and then walked off We have the next time when the wolves were leading them towards the direction that they needed to go by chasing them in that direction

[00:13:47] But in essence they were helping them and then now we have this where they're literally being called upon possibly by Perrin in some way that When they're angry when he's angry, they're angry and

[00:14:01] Then they come in and they take out the rest of the children of the light so that they can escape So it's almost like there is a connection between Perrin and these wood wolves Absolutely what that is yet or how deep it goes

[00:14:17] We're still trying to figure out. We're yeah, I look forward Yeah, is he gonna turn into a fucking wolf like yeah, Wendy's when he's werewolf theory Well and what does why why is that happening?

[00:14:30] Is that because something to do with the Trollix because it seemed to come from a wound that he had on his leg? Like that's what I don't know Well, we're good. Well, well, I just say we're both will find out

[00:14:44] I mean I'm I anxiously await them. Hopefully we get some sort of Some sort of explanation or something by the end of the season Not, you know, I don't need it to be a problem-solved, but I do want to I do want to to get something besides

[00:15:06] Well that happened so cool. Yeah, I like I say we still have three episodes left I have no doubt in some way though. No This will be resolved and we'll know what this connection is and it's something

[00:15:21] Rare because child Valda didn't know what it was so but I mean even still like It's I don't know if this is something that happened because the wolf licked his wounds I think this was something that already existed and

[00:15:36] Because as we're finding out all five of these people they're all Even though only one of them is the dragon they are all special in some sort of way Yeah, because they're all exhibiting abilities of some kind. Yeah, so they might have only been normal

[00:15:52] people when they were at two rivers, but Now they're all realizing that there is something about each and every one of them that was always lying dormant And is now starting to come to the surface and funnily enough, you know, I think that had

[00:16:10] The children caught any of them They would have like in any all of all of them have weird shit going on with them If it's Matt and the shit coming from his mouth or whatever

[00:16:24] Or the fact that he can knock down a door that or or the or the that Rand has super strength and when he's under stress Sorry, yeah, or You know or Ninjave, you know heels literally everybody in a cave

[00:16:39] Like but because of just because of the very narrow view of the children of the light or at least specifically Valda He believes that all of that all of those things would be agents of the dark And so like it

[00:16:58] You know fortunately this one was a wolves were able to help out and save Parent and the Queen and we're able to get them back together get the band back together in Tarvalon What also seems to that that that child Valda? it almost seems like his purpose of

[00:17:18] Hunting the Isidae and taking out the Isidae isn't necessarily For the greater good of anyone else. It almost seems like he does it purposely just to have a trophy That he did it. I mean what because otherwise why take the collection of rings well

[00:17:35] He's a trophy of some kind his his his phrase and I believe I believe it's a quote It's not it's it's a closely paraphrased quote the idea that the one power comes from anywhere

[00:17:46] But the dark is absurd. I have been called to stamp out the one power woman by woman by woman So he feels that it is good is his calling to destroy these dark friends these Agents of the dark one which happened to be literally every Isidae out there

[00:18:07] And that is his duty in his calling Well, that's probably also why he was a bit shocked when he saw some kind of ability from Perrin Yeah, because he wasn't expecting him to be a threat. Yeah, he's so hyper focused on on watching women

[00:18:21] For abilities that when he sees one coming from a man It kind of threw him off a little bit All right, and this isn't one of my points or anything But just the way that you just said that you're not so busy watching women

[00:18:35] And not expecting it from a man that Tosses me to the Leandron moraine conversation where Leandron said You know in some places in the world men still rule and Don't treat little girls who show a spark to be better than they could be or better than them

[00:18:58] They don't treat them well or something like that and kind of what Wendy was talking about last week, I believe Where it's you know here it is you know girl power and and that's a lot of what we've seen However in other parts of the world

[00:19:14] It's still that That concept that the women are still only around to serve men or to serve To serve period rather than to rule or help rule And it's hard to figure out Who's the good guy and who's the bad guy in this? show because

[00:19:40] Like the I said I You can see there's They're they're not like these noble Characters that are just doing good for good sake you can see there's a lot of flaws and and

[00:19:56] Faults there so it doesn't make it clear who's you know who's right and who's wrong here Which is almost more interesting. It's almost like every character is a yin yet is a yeah Because there's the while some of them have the best intentions

[00:20:14] There's a little bit of nefarious or darkness in them. Yeah, same thing goes the other way it goes the other way as well Yeah, those those good stuff My number three is we're gonna I'm gonna shift a little bit a New character

[00:20:35] Boyle Boyle son son of her rents son of Halan The ogir I will tell you for 20 some odd years. I said ogir like with ogi and Loyal the ogir ogir I really I really enjoyed His his interactions with ran and some of the things that he said

[00:21:07] Now he Boyle talks and he talks a lot and he talks at length and he talks even though no one's listening But so he is he's an ogir or damn it an ogir He comes from a setting which is exactly what what Dana said in episode two

[00:21:31] She said I you know want to visit ogir ogir. I think she said ogir setting he you know was chased across Tarvalan by the mob with pitchforks ogir have access to the to the grounds and so he's almost like a dux mack in a really like oh well

[00:21:52] Rand can't go to the White Tower to find his friends But he's described this this braid and so I'm going to go and I'm going to speak Very eloquently and in grade length for

[00:22:06] Until people just stop listening and give me whatever it is that I want and I love the I love the like the pacing of the actors delivery and It's it's just it's a lot of fun to me. I don't know if it's just me, but I got very

[00:22:25] I got a couple Hagrid vibes From loyal From from Harry Potter. Mm-hmm, especially what he said like he's allowed on the grounds of the White Tower It's like well, that's pretty much what Hagrid did Hagrid was a groundskeeper not saying that's what loyal was but right

[00:22:43] You know like it just for some reason that particular line is like oh gives me Hagrid vibes Yeah, he was only I think the fact that he was giant and very hairy I Can understand that there's that too. Yeah, but like I I Loved all of the little

[00:23:03] All little not pieces of necessarily of like book lore or whatever, but you know, oh You were an IEelman not often do I meet an IEelman? I did not expect me. Oh, I'm not an IEelman

[00:23:16] I'm from the two rivers. Oh and I yield man who's from the two rivers I'm not an I meant an IEelman who is from the two rivers who says he's not an IEelman so odd

[00:23:25] Like and it just continues to talk and talk and talk and it's almost like he's narrating everything that's going on and I find that endearing for right now, I may not find it endearing if I had to be around him all the time and

[00:23:43] But I thought that the delivery and the introduction of the character He almost looks he almost looks like the Cowardly line from from Wizard of Oz but like, you know, he's wearing boots and He seems to have a great love of books And

[00:24:03] I am looking forward to seeing more of loyal I Had a note about him I wrote that I really liked him I thought he was funny and ironic and this is a really serious show and there's not a lot of light moments

[00:24:20] And he brought some like a breath of fresh air and some light moments, and I thought that was really needed I thought it was interesting Rand like kind of dismisses Him and his importance and then he easily like finds nine a for him and just drags her in

[00:24:39] I thought it was great Yeah, I He was he was definitely so we didn't have them the standard Matt sass That because Matt's just feeling real real real shitty And then as you mentioned that like a lot of heaviness In other parts of the episode but

[00:25:01] But yeah, I Yeah, I could totally appreciate what you're saying That's that's definitely That's basically how I felt I think that he is someone who was introduced around this point in the books and

[00:25:16] And I like said I look forward to finding out more about this version of them And in the characters so there are the race of a year Yeah Wendy number two My number two was about the Warders

[00:25:37] I think I've talked about previously that I found them really fascinating we This episode seemed to be very focused on the Warders again. I Think it's probably the most compelling part of the story for now Step in He's completely Racked at the loss of the Isidae Kareni

[00:26:04] he tells the story of how they met and How he became her Warder, which was just so sweet and compelling and We really see so much feeling here and Certainly these strong amazing men seem to be able to share their feelings and their troubles with each other

[00:26:25] They're they're supportive of each other. You can see their true friends and They're showing a lot more emotion than we're used to seeing in most shows and in real life in many instances as well

[00:26:37] I love that this show is kind of breaking the stereotypes and kind of twisting typical gender portrayals that we see in shows and I really like that if anything the women have been more sedate and

[00:26:54] Not showing their feelings and the men have been showing their feelings and I just love the role of Versailles The scene between Lon and Steppen when they're in his chambers And I think Lon is staying with him because he knows it's a painful

[00:27:13] time to be alone and and I think also fearful and I thought it was just so sweet and wonderful them talking and sharing Memories you can tell how much they really care about each other But really we find out that Steppen it has tricked

[00:27:31] He has tricked Nineveh and he's tricked Lon and he ends up drugging Lon so that he can be left alone to take his own life And I think you said it earlier is that we

[00:27:45] Didn't know him very well, but we still felt that tragedy and the heartbreaking to lose him And Lon's despair was just so palpable I'm so invested in Lon at this point. They have shaped his quiet character so well and I think he's

[00:28:06] Him and Nineveh are probably the characters I am the most invested in at this point Daniel Henney like that that last scene was just Heart-wrenching it really was and he he jay. I mean he sold it

[00:28:21] And I mean in all honesty more rain or Rosamund Pike and just the look on her face and and like just the like and Just what I think of the bond right And I get that I have some you know some other viewpoint of it

[00:28:43] But the way I think of the bond is that you You almost can feel like a separate portion of yourself, right? so Let's just we'll call it chi right and you can feel the other person's chi and if if they're upset You can feel that they're upset if

[00:29:04] and Then you know if if they're if they're drinking then maybe you feel a little bit drunk but the the the hard part there is that Where you could what it what it seemed like to me was that Marene was watching land and

[00:29:26] as his sorrow grew or at least He allowed himself to feel the sorrow She like her sorrow For him like she felt worse for him and then that reflected back to land And it just just bounced back and forth until it was just just immeasurable and

[00:29:53] That's one of the ways that land was You know, but he couldn't do anything except for howl In in the grief That's just the way that I Looked at it and the tear rolling down Rosamund Pike's face

[00:30:12] Just as she just isn't blinking staring at land and you could just see the sorrow in her face and Amazing performance Yeah, it was I mean I it was It was tough

[00:30:28] And I think that's why I didn't like those scenes as much because I don't want to feel that like I get it I understand it. I don't like it. I don't want to feel bad

[00:30:39] I like I like I mean I I do but like I I appreciate I can appreciate what's happening But I've been through heavy You know like feeling that through them I I loved it when I when it something Makes me feel

[00:31:01] It's doing its job. It's good. I'm not disagreeing with you I just I I don't like to to it's not that I don't like to feel grief or you know, I don't like to feel shitty but You know, it's for me personally I

[00:31:19] Think that there was a base emotion there that made me Not not not dislike those parts but go oh Let me concentrate on this guy getting tortured because I don't have to think about how this would make me feel

[00:31:37] If I was in that position or I had not prevented my friend's death or something like this could absolutely be triggering for someone who Who's you know family members or friends had had you know committed suicide or tried or whatever and?

[00:31:55] Alright, that's all I'll say about that, but it was just it was definitely difficult to watch Well, I mean and you know to kind of further the point not about the the end scene but about the The waters and their connection to the ice and I you know

[00:32:10] I've been saying for the past couple episodes That's something that has been really been intriguing me lately And there was a line that land said in this episode that really I

[00:32:19] Didn't really pick up on it until the second watch like I heard it the first watch, but it really struck me the second time and that's Waters are not supposed to outlive their ice-a-dye And you know when you look at that in real life, you know

[00:32:33] There's a very common saying that you know parents are not supposed to outlive their children Yeah, okay, and you know I kind of made that connection the same way

[00:32:42] It's like I don't I'm while I don't think a water in an ice-a-dye's connection is more like a parent of the child I said, you know, I said last week. I think it's more like a marriage

[00:32:52] But just not of the intimacy right or without the intimacy and I feel like that's that's the way You know this connection really is so I mean You have you know when you realize that waters are warriors ice-a-dye are kind of like the

[00:33:08] Are the magicians or whatever you want to call them? It does make a lot of sense that a water would go Before an ice-a-dye and Wendy you kind of touched base on a little bit too when you mentioned the connection between Steppen and

[00:33:27] Oh, why can't I think Karina Karina? Yeah You know when he's telling the story of how they met like you realize even more

[00:33:35] And this is one of the things that really makes you feel for Steppen as a character in just the short time that we got to know him You know it makes you realize that like okay their bond

[00:33:45] I think was even stronger than what we know of land and more in because We don't really know much of their connection other than they're just water and I said I But when you hear the story of Steppen their bond predates the actual water ice-a-dye bond

[00:34:03] Right, you know, they were friends almost family before they even became connected I think that we will hopefully find out that many waters and And I said I have similar stories I don't think that it's

[00:34:25] It's gonna turn out. I think I mean just because of the the personal nature of Steppen's story I think we're gonna find out that It's not like oh, hey, I'm gonna go find the most able-bodied water guy and I'm gonna make him my order

[00:34:41] But yes, you're absolutely right That that the personalized level of that definitely Impacted and I'm not trying to sorry to cut you off. It's just No, no, it's fine. I mean I have no doubt

[00:34:54] There are there are ice-a-dye out there who chose their waters because they are the most apt They are the most highly skilled, you know, they are the most well-trained But I do find it more intriguing that because even Steppen says like she had her choice of anybody and

[00:35:12] She chose me he was literally a kid that liked to pick fights and picked a fight against the wrong person That being her You know and he like I love the fact that the story says like oh and after like basically after she whooped my ass

[00:35:27] She bought me a drink like That's a great connection to have and that really is what helped me buy into the character and Really made me feel his loss when the time came at the end. Absolutely

[00:35:39] Is that personalized connection? All right, that that it for your number two Wendy. Yep Well, we kind of touched on my number two already or rather you did Greg and that is we've met somebody who I Kind of feel very quickly became one of my favorite characters

[00:35:58] And and that's loyalty. Oh gear. How is it? Oh, yeah, oh gear But I kind of took I kind of looked at his character a little differently in that like you he does

[00:36:11] Absolutely like to talk and I did mention I got the high grid vet the hybrid the Hagrid vibes from him And he does like to talk and maybe the first time I watched the episode was like, yeah

[00:36:22] I kind of I get it you like to talk you're constantly talking and it's so funny that nobody ever cuts him off They just they just move on right To do when he's just and he's like, I guess I'm done

[00:36:36] But the more I listen to him upon second watch I Kind of equate him almost to a gleamon Because he's not just rambling. He's giving you a history in Whatever it is he's talking about like when he mentioned, you know when he's talking about two rivers

[00:36:57] He's giving you a history of what he knows of two rivers He's giving you a history of what he knows about this person when he knows about this person

[00:37:04] He's a historian and I didn't even notice it until the second time that when Rand is in the library searching through the books Loyal's already in there. You see his feet sitting in the chair behind the book stack

[00:37:18] See he's it wasn't like he just kind of wandered in and happened upon Rand. He was in there Yeah, but you're right the delivery of the character it's so I Don't want to say dry because it's certainly not dry, but it's it's

[00:37:39] It's kind of monotone, but but yet it has some character I don't know what it is about loyal loyal, but I Loved his character. I want to see more of this character. I want to and I because he is an ogre I

[00:37:55] Want to see him fight like I know he knows so in in the books You know, see he talked about being chased across the city with pitchforks and torches But in the books basically people

[00:38:12] Refer to him as a trolley because no one's seen a trolley before and they see this person or this this humanoid that is larger than life and looks like he's part beast And you know, although he's you know wearing boots and clothes and not eating other people

[00:38:36] So like but so It's so it is very apparent that he is like almost like oh That was that was quite the experience pacing's not the right word, but I love the Almost almost like the the poetic

[00:38:57] Delivery of the way that he talks because he never hurries himself up No matter if someone stops listening or if someone Moves on or even leaves the room I Really enjoyed it and And and it made me can these humans are so Hasty always running off

[00:39:26] Before they're prepared for what they're getting ready to walk into Which makes you think that he's a pretty prepared guy Yeah, so he's always gonna be prepared now you may not necessarily need him to help put out a fire

[00:39:42] But yeah, it's I am curious what happens when an O gear is faced with conflict If if he has to that's what I yeah, you're absolutely right. That's Yeah, I I I totally I'm totally digging them and he's He's a very interesting character in the first book

[00:40:06] It's it's been weird to how there has been there there has been these characters that have just stood out and Immediately caught my attention, you know Tom being another one that I just immediately took to and now there's loyal that I

[00:40:22] Layal who's another one that is just I immediately took to and it for definitely different reasons like Tom is Absolutely a mystery. I want to know his backstory I want to know why he is the person that he is and I'm saying is because I fully believe

[00:40:38] Thomas absolutely still alive. There's no doubt in my mind. He's dead like He's still alive It's it's it's the typical trope if you didn't see it on screen death You didn't see him ripped apart by in a revolving door. Yeah, he's not dead Yes So, you know, I

[00:41:01] Tom is just a mystery to me, which is why I was drawn to him. But loyal like I don't he's not a mystery He's very just like the books he reads. He's very open at least from what we've seen of him so far and

[00:41:16] That's kind of what draws me into him a little bit So yeah, I just I really took to that character. I Enjoyed him even more the second time and when they leave the white tower. I I hope he joins the party

[00:41:33] Yeah, but I like that just makes me you say when they leave the white tower it makes me wonder what's next Rans question to Moraine what then? Sorry that moves on from that point, but

[00:41:46] Yeah, yeah, cuz I have I have some it's not one of my top three, but I have something a note on that as well But the whole comparison to Trollix that you made to makes a lot of sense because the first thing that ran does when he sees

[00:41:59] And he draws his sword So it's kind of off putting but I get it Yeah, that was my that's my number two we kind of touched on it already. I just wanted to Just throw a couple extra. I'm going to

[00:42:14] I'm going to talk about some of the stuff that is touched on book references that they're literally just tossed in and You know maybe talked about a little bit, but then Hopefully they are things that will will come up in the future Tarvalon Was a beautifully Realized city

[00:42:44] Like the the views and I'm we you know we've talked about the the money in the CGI that was put together the quality of it like that view for Matt and Rand

[00:42:56] Up on the hill before when they first saw the the city and the tower and the in the middle of the river and It was absolutely stunning. I was actually going to ask you about that because I know you having read the books multiple times

[00:43:11] Did what you went seeing the physical realization of it come to life? Didn't meet your expectations the city sure The city was I mean, I think that I Think that you know game of thrones did it well with King's Landing and whatnot

[00:43:30] But I thought that the the view away or view from away was was great You know the the overall view the white tower I honestly in my mind I had built it up like Almost like the Washington Monument

[00:43:49] Like it was literally a straight up and up up into the air tower like a spire Yep, that's what I pictured too as a Instead of a what looks like the capital But but I thought that it was almost like the eye of Saran

[00:44:10] Yeah, yeah, that's I mean that's that's basically what I had in my head and then seeing this It makes more sense for it to be like this rather than just a aspire But I thought I thought that it was absolutely beautiful another point on the scenery when

[00:44:34] Land right before land is waking up after Steppen has has drugged him Like the townscape or the cityscape or where you saw the The sunrise and the changing of colors on the storefronts or the buildings. I

[00:44:56] Mean that looked like it was ripped directly from the covers of the books Because I know that we've talked about a lot of the colors, you know, they're the show being very colorful and but this was I

[00:45:12] Thought that the purple and red hues were absolutely like absolutely stunning and beautiful I Agree, I had a note about this It had a real feel of like Morocco for the Middle East

[00:45:31] The few long shots that they showed were really amazing. I thought they did an amazing job with the effects I don't know how they did it, but I thought it was was great

[00:45:42] You can see the stone arched bridges the architecture the lattice windows the open-air markets and courtyards a real Middle East feel But yet the people in the town are very diverse So you're seeing all different kinds of things you're seeing camels and horses

[00:45:59] There's a stone wall surrounding the entire city. I Thought it was great. It certainly exceeded my expectations That's awesome. That's that's fantastic Yeah, the so that the colors remind me of so when I was in middle school we put on a play of Oklahoma and

[00:46:24] You know it maybe We're at whatever it was middle school high school whatever the case was in Oklahoma there is a scene where the Sun starts to set and I was involved in like the technical lighting and stuff like that and

[00:46:40] so a friend of mine she was the lighting director for for the play and Like I just watched The the the sky like the background wasn't even paying attention to the people singing or dancing or whatever

[00:46:56] I was paying attention to the lights and it did almost the exact same type of thing where it would just fade from one like slowly fade from one color to another and it was Absolutely stunning and it was all background not intended to be a

[00:47:15] Focus of the time or or the play or whatever and I thought but it's I was like it made me appreciate what like how the lighting and whatnot will affect your mood or

[00:47:30] The way you feel about a specific area or a specific scene or whatever I thought was so well done the other part was that we saw the IEelman and Tom mentioned that You don't see that color of hair

[00:47:45] on the IEelman in the cage when he buried him with Matt and then Loyal so you you have to imagine that Tom when he saw Rand thought the same thing and then Loyal comments on the fact that Rand looks like an IEelman and

[00:48:12] Rand has zero concept of what he's talking about I yield are just monsters not monsters, but you know fearsome warriors from the stories and And Yeah, I thought and that was I think that was the last well, no the last one was

[00:48:31] the little ceremony that Steppen was doing the night before Before he died Warding off the Forsaken and land said do you really believe in any of this stuff? Or rather that's a steppin asked land and land was like hey they were sealed away

[00:48:53] with the dark one and who's to say if they can touch the world or not and And the Forsaken play a significant a significant Parts later in the story and at least in the story in the books and I'm I

[00:49:13] Hoping to see them and I hope to see that in the future But it was just tossed in there with zero concept of what it was except for the short explanation the land gave I thought it was great

[00:49:26] It's an IEelman. Is that like the modern equivalent of a ginger? Of a ginger Yeah, if if gingers didn't happen from time to time In so they're more rare that yeah, they're they're Apparently in this world That colored gingers from

[00:49:50] Basically, you don't see them outside of the IEEL waste The threefold land It is uncommon to see that well I think that also the one thing we haven't mentioned about that whole

[00:50:03] Interaction between the two of them and you know loyal calling him an IEelman and Rand saying that he wasn't is Kind of shining a light on the fact that ran doesn't know his true background

[00:50:15] I think it just raises some questions about what is what is Rand's true background? Is is there something that Tam isn't telling him about about where he's from or Gotcha, you know anything like that Okay

[00:50:30] Because loyal was pretty dead. I know he's no you're you're definitely no who says you're not an IE that's weird. I Like yeah exactly. Yeah, that is a that is a that is a good point and Oh the and then Valda said

[00:50:46] And I said I said that all the motions and stuff from the hands were actually just crutches that All you needed to do was Like concentrate your efforts, but all the the motion and stuff or just stuff that people insert into their thing

[00:51:03] So they don't if they don't do them. They can't they can't work the one power Other that was that's something directly out of the books Which I thought was was pretty cool And that is all I had for my number two Wendy

[00:51:18] So for my number one, it really is just all about nine eight She's such a wonderful character the more we see of her the more I love When she finds the boys Rand and Perrin you can see her motherly instincts really kick in

[00:51:38] She feels responsible for them and that is her priority and I don't know There's just something that comes over her that I don't think we saw enough of her in the first episode to get a full feel

[00:51:49] Of her but here you can really see it like she's mom. She's mothering them And she's also strong enough and stubborn enough to stand up to Marene and the ice-a-dye Like I said, I think Lon and nine AVE are my favorite character so far

[00:52:08] Step step in is the first to say that there's something between Lon and nine AVE. What do you think about that? I think there's definitely a connection between the two. I don't know if it stems to romantic

[00:52:21] But there's a bond there. I look forward to seeing that explored more in the future. I like them together. I Can't wait to see what happens that I really They've just They've just built it up so well that you care so much about these characters

[00:52:43] At Stepan's funeral you can see nine AVE watching Lon's despair and You can see how much it affects her and she's trying really hard. I mean they're they're emoting and their Acting was just so well done in this episode

[00:53:01] And you can see she's trying to be strong she does she doesn't trust these people She certainly doesn't want to let her guard down in front of them. She can't stop herself. She's really

[00:53:12] Shaken by how much this has affected Lon. Yeah, she definitely like started fidgeting just like wait I don't I don't know but why I can't but yeah, but with zero words and Yeah, all in the eyes and in the face and it was great

[00:53:31] So I just can't wait to see what happens with her and This was somebody who after the first episode I just kind of wrote her off like she's gone. She's dead Obviously, she's dead and so it's been a real treat and gift

[00:53:45] To see her being built up into such an important main character each episode and I felt more and more strong about her So loving it Yeah speaking of none of I Love the fact that each of these characters are still being

[00:54:07] Like touch toned like hey, we hey we're touching this person's story and their interactions even if it's just a short little Whatever even you know 98 was more featured in this even if if it was just more conversations and not crazy one-power explosions but It was the fact that

[00:54:29] Like in this and like last episode 98 like Kind of sat with the waters and bonded and whatnot and then giant reveal that she can use can use the power And in this one it was a queen showing the backbone and and really

[00:54:50] Basically telling and fall to the go fuck himself And I thought it was just super impressive. I guess you could say that The like Matt and Rans episode was the green spring episode But

[00:55:08] You know and now it's we're just like what the hell's going on with Perrin like Some crazy shit And I like the fact that we're using basically using each episode to kind of break out a specific character

[00:55:22] And and kind of we don't necessarily just focus on them, but you're seeing Aspects of their personality just like you were talking about earlier the character building. I I'd love it. I think it's fantastic Yeah, it's almost like you know the story of a green and Perrin

[00:55:41] It's almost like the writers had them lying in wait Because they needed to tell a couple other stories first and then this episode is like okay Yeah, that's actually a really good point because we I just spent the last two episodes going what the hell come on

[00:55:57] Just something happened, but if say it's something if stuff that happened It might have taken away from the story from the other the other characters

[00:56:04] Or a couldn't got it or it could have just it could have gotten overshadowed by another story that was being told at the same Yeah, absolutely. Um before I move on to my number one Going back to the whole land and

[00:56:19] Nine-Ave connection. I think it would be interesting to see because I definitely like I said I don't know if I see a romantic bond. I could be completely wrong about that. I Could definitely see a

[00:56:34] Water I said I bond happening if that's the path that you know nine-aves takes Unfortunately, though what we learned from this episode though from you know stepping is that that would unfortunately mean more rain

[00:56:49] Morene has to die in order for that bond to be broken for him to take Except that morene talked about Finally like hearing that there was a way to release the bond All right, she was when she was talking to Alana in morene's bed chamber She's like Yeah

[00:57:13] And then Alana was like, you know, you're gonna go you're gonna be around for a long time So maybe that's something they quite possibly could be setting up then is that Land could possibly go to

[00:57:26] Nine-Ave instead of the problem. I think the problem that I would be that is that if you can release the bond but I Don't know if that would have the same effect like would would Kind of like what steppen was talking about like hey you lose more rain

[00:57:43] Then tell me how easy it is to just jump to another woman. I think but when he said something like that though I think I'm pretty sure maybe I just don't know what the loss of

[00:57:54] Of that closeness and that intimacy would do to someone to just have them replaced by somebody that The disconnect yeah, how yeah, I just I don't know Yeah, that's a good point fair enough

[00:58:11] Yeah, I could like I said there's there's a couple different things I could see they might be setting up with it It's just a question of how we're gonna go about doing it

[00:58:20] My number one I kind of want to jump back and talk a little bit more about the funeral that we saw at the end I know kind of every one of my point has been taken Just kind of throwing additional notes at them. No, it's totally fine

[00:58:36] No, no you I'm fine with it Because I do have some additional points on the funeral and one of the things that I noticed about this episode is that Funerals bookend this episode we haven't spoken much about the funeral that starts the episode with the burial of

[00:58:53] Karine and everybody else that was that was killed in the battle that we saw last episode And one of the things that really stood out to me is that one of the people buried ceremoniously was a king Who was against them and we see that it's land

[00:59:10] That's the one that's burying that's laying the king to rest Which speaks volumes about land because that means he has a massive amount of respect for whether it be royalty or the I guess the ceremony of death

[00:59:29] Because you know the king was somebody who went mad and turned against them But yet you still find him Wonder if all of those bodies were not just their party, but the the people who died that they killed

[00:59:46] There were a lot of bodies. Yeah, so I just I mean there was probably 30 40 So yeah, I don't I don't maybe maybe the number of people who got killed were much higher than that

[00:59:57] I don't know but but I if I feel like they were burying literally everyone who died and You know giving them the the wish of the last embrace of the mother welcome you home Which I thought was Yeah Well, and that's another and that's another point

[01:00:18] I kind of wanted to bring up too was the dynamic between the two different funerals You know, we have the funeral in the beginning with the you know the final embrace of the mother

[01:00:26] Which you know involved a member if not multiple members of the I said I that had I think actually I think Karina was the only I think so I That was killed there might have there might have been a red sister

[01:00:38] But I think that they would have made a bigger deal of it Of like the delivery of the ring back to the tower if there was Yeah, exactly so, you know, we have this serene You know very in some ways very beautiful ceremony where they're

[01:00:55] You know, they're covered with a cloth with one single candle laid upon them And then that's how they you know, that's how they're buried as Compared to step in this funeral which almost seemed more like a warrior funeral with the pounding of the chest and

[01:01:10] Land screaming out because it's even the other member that says to land Lay your pawn lay your hand upon him and release us release us of this grief so land is the one that is ceremoniously and

[01:01:26] Representing the grief that everyone in the room suffered and the pounding of the chest is almost like a warrior cry because it's we We are Experiencing grief but as warriors we cannot let it affect us

[01:01:41] So we're going to pound it out of us and that is what I felt lands scream really was He was releasing the grief because they need to move on And I will fully confess this I Haven't read any of the feedback. That's not what I'm confessing

[01:02:05] I never read the feedback until we read it on the podcast So I don't know if this gets brought up at all and anybody's feedback I will fully confess this both times. I watched this episode. I got choked up

[01:02:16] During that final time. I get it and I know the moment I know the moment that it happened. I got choked up. I started to feel Like it was coming when I saw we you know, we mentioned the performances of Rosamund Pike and seeing her cry

[01:02:32] And I absolutely agree that that is her sharing the feeling of land because of their bond She is absolutely feeling his grief in that moment and it's kind of reflecting back and forth as you said Greg so

[01:02:47] Seeing her start to pound her chest was when I was like, okay, this This is gonna hit me. Like I don't know why this is gonna hit me. This is gonna hit me When it really got me was seeing nine eight and Seeing her get emotional at land

[01:03:07] When it cut to her and you see her eyes welling up, that's when mine did too. I Don't know what it is about that moment That's the moment I started getting choked up at that funeral Because it's so again

[01:03:22] It's a character we've only known for an episode and a half But the story that they gave us of that character in that short of time to make us feel connected to them I I felt like I lost somebody too right in a sense

[01:03:37] So I got very emotional at that funeral which is Bravo on the writer's part acting and writing was just top-notch Yep, everybody's performance was great amazing. The the writing was great that funeral scene was just

[01:03:53] But again, it's just I find it interesting to comparing the differences between the two funerals Yeah, that's the About all these things that I don't want to sit and think about Yeah

[01:04:08] Yeah, no, I like just hearing you talk about it. It flashes me back to to the scene and I don't you know, I get it and That's all I'm gonna say about that

[01:04:21] Yeah, that's that's really all I have for from a number one too is just the emotion from that funeral and the Dynamic between the two that book ended Yeah, that's a that's a hard one to think about but So moving on number one

[01:04:40] Wendy kind of touched on this and you guys touched it on your number threes but the oh look I care about parent and a queen again and things things happened and The psychosis of Valda and

[01:04:55] The the ball z-ness of a queen, you know what if you're gonna do it just do it I will come back and split you like a pig in my next life just Yeah, I cannot wait for her to realize the full like realize her potential

[01:05:17] To become an an ice-a-dye or I guess they will start off as novices and You get a little bit more of that in those little animated things we talked about last week Did you go back and watch those Wendy? Okay, so I did not you should

[01:05:36] 15 minutes to get through all of them and they're there. Yeah, you should They're really really good. I kind of like having everything come to me like with no You know spoilers or pre conceived notions I've been enjoying that So they're only releasing them

[01:06:00] Now I guess I guess maybe the white tower one It's basically like hey the white tower one was the one that was released this episode there this this this week But the white tower one I think was closer to

[01:06:14] Like a hey, here's the history of the white tower and why the white tower is important We've talked about how famous it is and how all roads lead here leave there even if roads don't work that way but

[01:06:25] This is like what this is where how it came into existence and stuff like that so I don't I think they they work to avoid spoilers So I that's one of the reasons that I that I encourage you guys to look at them because they are

[01:06:41] One they're fantastically rendered and And really well done But yeah, so Abdul Salis is just killing it So just vile and psychotic and creepy we can't figure who the bad guys are no that guy's a bad guy straight up

[01:07:07] And and he's supposed to represent the light and that is such a a crazy juxtaposition that you would think that that is You know, hey, I am We'll just say that he is The as we've talked about kind of the Spanish acquisition like hey

[01:07:23] I am representing the Lord and the Lord wants me to root out all evil and because my own personal Faulted view of as man. I I view you as evil and God he is here. We have found our Ramsey Bolton He's he's a zealot. He's absolutely a yeah

[01:07:49] I mean, it's just he has one purpose and it's to rid the world of the Isidae Doesn't matter how he's gonna be going about doing it Even if the matters are extreme or uncompromising He's gonna go about but when he said how do you know that?

[01:08:04] I'm not a man or that I'm a man who will keep to my to my oaths When a queen said you can't you can't kill someone who's done it Well, how are you? Who are you to think that I will keep to my oaths? I was just like

[01:08:20] That's even more hardcore good God Double-tap double-tap. I was very invested in his death kill him again Pick up the knife and keep stabbing. No, you know, he's gonna survive He's he's creepy like his mixture of like I don't know like comedy our senior hall and

[01:08:46] And and yet what comes out is like Ramsey Bolton like it's it's Absolutely Sorry not sorry Yeah, he was he was absolutely psychotic. Yes I

[01:09:12] Yeah, so that was I mean that was that was all of my number one was that that whole scene and and just the quality of Performance that that Abdul Salis is giving is just so crazy

[01:09:25] And the fact that he like cut down on parent and cut down on parent and can't down it And then he walked away and let them discuss and then came back and like started cutting across so that I

[01:09:35] Imagine he was gonna start peeling off the squares of flesh that was cut out and I was just like oh god That is that is is pretty pretty tough, but yeah, so that was that was it for my number one

[01:09:48] You guys got some notes. I had a note about Matt He just looks awful They all seem to know what's happening to him. He seems to know also and so does Rand And then he thinks he killed the family in the last episode which you that

[01:10:08] Like that hit me in the in the face pretty hard this time because I was like oh god He doesn't know if he killed them and Will he ever know? Right, right and even after a month's time too because there is a month time jump in this episode

[01:10:25] And even after a month. He's still wondering whether or not he killed this family You know so either somebody has still just hasn't told him yet. It wasn't him Well, that's I ran told them that sounds like ran so tell me again and then Matt

[01:10:42] You didn't kill the family and you'd like it was the fade and well How do you know and well Tom and Tom was Tom's dead and Like I just that the whole idea that he can't help it and he just

[01:10:58] It's all he has to focus on is tough And I know they seem pretty positive like they seem pretty convinced that that Matt is is Turning into a conjurer or becoming a conjurer. I don't necessarily feel like I believe that though because

[01:11:16] first off to have the story where Three of the five of them become conjurers. I think is a little much. I think there's something darker Happening to Matt right now and I think a lot of it stems from that dagger Because of as I mentioned last episode

[01:11:32] He was holding that dagger when he could look in the shadow I think whatever it was that was taking over possession was taking possession of The the pretend dragon I forget his name game It's like low game. Thank you Whatever it was that took possession of low gain

[01:11:54] I think a similar thing is happening to Matt because low gain looked at Matt and Literally just Did he actually do that or did Matt just picture that Because Because Rand was like Matt Matt and then you look back down it

[01:12:13] I think he was literally sitting to because then the game was sitting back against the cage Right, yeah, but you just don't know that's the thing you just don't know what's real What's not real? What's just TC and you don't know especially for him. It's yeah

[01:12:29] He's yeah, they're doing a good job of keeping even us guessing his viewers and But again, I think it's something more. I don't think he's necessarily becoming a conjurer I think I think there's some kind of darkness. I don't mean to correct. I'm assuming you mean the channeler

[01:12:48] Yeah, it's a it's a thing listeners at home After I said actually it's Yeah, so Any any other notes So the white cloak guys, what do they call white cloaks children of light children of the light children of the light I was calling them delight men

[01:13:23] They seem to be right outside of Tarvalan I had a I had an I had a note about that too. It seems weird that That would happen so close to like the stronghold of the asa die

[01:13:36] Why don't they go out there and attack them like they're killing that's their whole purpose They're killing the ice die, and this is the tower of the ice die

[01:13:45] Then they're and then they're just beating the shit out of tinkers just outside the gates and no one's like hey stop that like That was my other note like

[01:13:56] Everything that the children of the light are doing but yet they won't kill tinkers. Why not? Is that some kind of code? I don't get Well, I think well, and I think that's just it. I think I

[01:14:12] Rem even says when he's running away with Perrin and a queen He even says like they won't kill them We need to go yeah because they do have a code. They literally are just slapping them around

[01:14:23] Yeah, and it seemed weird defenseless people people who will not defend themselves Oh, well, I'll just knock them around a little bit because they're not doing what I tell them to do But I'm gonna play this other guy over here. Yeah, it's it's an it's an intimidation factor

[01:14:41] I mean and that's just it too. I don't know if the other children of the light are exactly following Or even or even in the know of what? What this guy going what child Valda is doing? We're all those guys questioners

[01:14:58] Or we're some of them just regular children of the light. I didn't know I I think some of them We're just children of the light Yeah, we're there as part of like an army or okay a caravan right that was with him because remember everything

[01:15:10] He does with the exception of the one I said I that he burned literally burned at the stake Everything that happens to parent and a queen in this episode happens inside of a tent that he's the only one that goes into right

[01:15:22] So I don't know if the other children of light are even aware I mean they hear screaming from inside the inside the tent I mean like both Both the Queen and parent are just yelling and I

[01:15:38] Mean immediately prior to wolves like I guess maybe you have more concerns on your on your plate if wolves start ripping out your throat people screaming But yeah What's up, Ben what you got so I have so I have I do have a couple notes as well

[01:15:59] Morene morene's eyes and ears are horrible Because she says to yeah, I have eyes and ears posted at every entrance if they arrived or they've been or they're here I'll know about it really because you didn't It took Roy L finding Rand to finding

[01:16:20] Naive night a to get the two of them together Maureen and I gave just leaves and nobody notices that either Yeah, oh Oh, hey, there's an oak here who came and got the the woman with the braid and no one cares Oh, all right

[01:16:37] All these all these S&I who want me to go be an office and whatnot But I'm just gonna go off to this this in and in typical loyal fashion He starts say he starts going into a historical

[01:16:48] Historical tirade and it doesn't matter because Naive is just heading right towards Rand so they can He's just standing outside the door talking about something giving you the background on on something about the white tower Yeah

[01:17:01] Because we held to build this it was we were always allowed. Okay. We done style. We literally have stopped listening oil Thank you very much Yeah It's it also

[01:17:13] Just me or does it seem like Rand is very indecisive as to whether or not he wants to trust Maureen Because one episode he doesn't trust her like he doesn't want to know why they're following in them the next episode

[01:17:24] He has a nightmare about something and he wants to follow her to make sure because they're safe with her And now in this episode, it's like well, I don't know if I trust her again

[01:17:32] Like will you make up your mind? I agree that that second episode he had seemed I don't know. Maybe they were just giving him bad direction or something

[01:17:44] Because he seems much more steadfast and you talking about when he when he kind of went off on her like what's next? What's next was next so I I don't know if that was calculated and the reason I say that is that after that Maureen rides off and

[01:18:03] Matt says well you got a reaction out of her So it makes me think that there's a possibility that ran was just seeing how far he could push her Well, no big no

[01:18:16] There's another moment in that same episode where Matt and Rand are having a conversation because Matt wants to go back to the village and Rand is the one that talks him into saying like no I we're safer with her So like that's a moment where he trusts her

[01:18:31] But then now he's going back on that saying I don't know if I do So I think the white tower was she wanted to bring you anyway, and now you don't trust her Yeah, I think that there is a I think there is a fine line between

[01:18:46] Making sure that you like staying with someone who you know has power till you get to a place of safety and Saying okay. Well my lot's thrown in with her and I'll do whatever she says I just I or hey, what if

[01:19:05] We give her to Matt or give Matt to her and tell her about him being a channel everyone And then they gentle him and he wants to kill himself. I

[01:19:14] Just I feel like I feel like he is is thinking about Matt and what will happen to Matt when they turn if he if he tells Maureen Will she just say oh well, I've got my own you know personal Political things so I

[01:19:32] Live by a code that's in my head and I've already killed the ferryman in my mind right whether ran whether the realized realization that she didn't kill him It was his own actions after hers that did it

[01:19:50] Like it I think that to Rand he understand or his viewpoint is that she doesn't care About them she cares about whatever it is whatever her mission is whatever The dragon reborn and whoever is not the dragon can Fuck off basically so okay

[01:20:12] Who can who can he trust her to do what's best for his friends? And not what she thinks is best for the white tower

[01:20:21] So at the time so at the time telling Matt that he he feels they're safer with her was more for the protection of Matt and his sanity then Then a trust in Maureen. I would say so I think Yes, I think that was protecting a friend and

[01:20:40] Now it's I'm protecting a friend from Maureen and from the S&I because I don't know what the the goals of the entire organization are Okay, fair enough that again. That's my my viewpoint Whenever someone brings up brings up some literally anything I immediately go hmm

[01:21:00] What could possibly be the reason my wife hates it when I do that? Well, we'll just see because maybe next episode will trust her again Oh, yeah, no next episode she he's gonna you know sing for her and it'll be it'll be crazy

[01:21:14] And the only final note I have and this is a very quick one I forget who it was but we got Somebody mentioned in feedback last week that is it was it just them or does the green? Isidae the green Asia Isidae in the opening look like Nineveh

[01:21:32] Uh, I rewatched it. It absolutely looks like nine. It is her with her braids down from that final scene of the last episode It absolutely looks like her Nice, I mean if I had to predict things with without knowing anything which I truly have been able to stay

[01:21:52] pure I would say it's it would seem obvious that nine a is gonna be An Isidae That would be my that would be my my guess too. Yeah That makes because that kind of blends into my next note which was about the white tower

[01:22:14] The white tower does not seem to be a friendly place to be Um, moraine and lawn haven't been there for two years and this seems purposeful. They've avoided the place and um, it's just a lot of infighting and politics and backstabbing and power grabbing

[01:22:38] And I think that came as a surprise to me because you kind of in the first One or two episodes you hear Isidae and these are the most powerful people in the world And you have this lofty, you know putting them on a pedestal

[01:22:52] But it sounds like they're just like everything else in the world It feels like there's an inner circle in the white tower and if you're not in it, it's dangerous Yeah, and um There's a lot of like personal Uh egos in there

[01:23:10] Yeah, um and and not so much altruistic I mean just You know on first glance it seems like they're not so much operating For the better good of things as much as there seems to be power grabbing going on Um

[01:23:27] The moraine seems to truly want to stay out of all of this which I thought I think I came to see her as certainly a more um You know a better person than a lot of the other Isidae just

[01:23:45] I don't know a lot about her yet, but from what I've seen And even though nine nine av definitely doesn't trust the Isidae and she doesn't trust moraine or rain really Appeared to be trying to help and protect nine av. I don't know that she appreciated it

[01:24:04] But I felt like moraine was um being truthful and Um Yeah, just just trying to help genuine. Yeah Yeah, I mean I that is that is definitely something to keep an eye on Uh, yeah the so I a couple of things that I noticed

[01:24:24] Alana mentioned that you know the white tower was not what it was when she left two years when moraine left two years ago um she uh The amraline is coming back And you know is looking for people to answer for low gain Uh

[01:24:41] And leandron and moraine have some sort of enmity Uh By themselves and you know you have Two very powerful people that aren't your friends and are not the the people that you necessarily want to be on their bad side

[01:25:01] Uh, and you know they're both going to be in the tower and one of them is basically your boss so uh Not And I You know the next episode is is called the flame of tarvalon and The flame of tarvalon is

[01:25:20] The amraline seat, so we are going to meet The amraline seat next next episode i'm assuming Um, especially not since we got word that she's she's coming back uh, yeah, that's A pit of vipers is what it feels like In in the white tower

[01:25:40] Agree yep, that's that's exactly it Uh anything else been No, that's that's all the notes that I had all right, uh just going through my notes. I like the the rand fro Um, you can see the the length of hair

[01:25:57] That ran has not had a haircut in a bit so The rand fro got it. I know I was like what? I thought I was like the fro that rand had That no I got it. Uh, and then I like rand fro now

[01:26:11] And then uh, and then oh look all the models got dirty And uh, they stayed dirty All these very pretty people are now all disgusting because they've been on the road for a month Oh, uh moraine when she opened the little window into

[01:26:29] What looked like it was going to be like a safe or something like that And it was a picture of a little girl or a a woman staring into a window I was like what's up with that? I'm just curious what it is. I didn't see that

[01:26:44] I noticed it too. Yeah, I was right after alana left Like moraine got up basically and stood at a portion You know beside the door alana got up and left the room the door shut and then moraine opened this thing and looked at this picture

[01:26:59] Oh, I thought the throat singing at the funeral the final yeah like the gregarian. Yeah That throat singing. I thought that was that was actually really cool um And then so the rent that I put was like the bond brings tears to moraine's eyes

[01:27:16] and is it sadness is it Land's fear of losing moraine. Is it like what what is it? Or is it just that that reflection like I was talking about? uh of of all of it and I thought that was that was pretty good

[01:27:32] Oh man, that was that was a lot um All right, if that is it, uh, we'll take a break. It's more to come stay with us And we are back with news about the wheel of time um, so Kind of what wendy was talking about earlier

[01:28:07] Uh, nerdists spoke to madeline madden about a gween and her experiences with the white cloaks Nerdists when the white cloaks capri a gween and parent and they brushed out a gween's hair It's the first time we've seen her with her hair unbraided in the series

[01:28:20] Is that intentional symbolism since getting one's hair braided is so important in two rivers? And madeline says of course absolutely symbolic symbolism is such a major thing in the wheel of time One of the things that robert jordan was renowned for was his attention to detail

[01:28:33] So we also have to pay attention to the detail as well Uh, the scene of the white cloaks stripping a gween and violently brushing her hair out is really disturbing It's such a violation. She's not seen as a person

[01:28:43] The symbolism of the braid is so important to not only the women in the two rivers But to the men as well The weight that carries of being initiated into this women's circle And also what it represents if we are always with you, we'll always stand by you

[01:28:55] That's something that we see nanyave is very stoic about her braid and so is a gween So when her hair is violently brushed out it just shows how stripped down she feels And I guess alone and violated and naked The nerdist

[01:29:09] Responds, you know that whole scene like hey, we're gonna put you in white and make you pure So that we can torture you And madeline replies Yeah, exactly the white cloaks violently scrub her down and are very rougher

[01:29:22] But then when it comes to her hands, they're very gentle and clean the nails and handle them with such care for valda I remember reading that and being so disturbed by it Nerdist says as a gween escapes from valda. She takes his trophies the eyes to die rings

[01:29:39] Valda's taken from severed hands Can you tell me about a gween pausing during this intense moment to take the great serpent rings? And madeline says absolutely She's a real upholder of justice and she feels that returning these rings to these women's sisters in the white tower

[01:29:59] Is giving them a proper send-off and treating them with respect She has such respect for the eyes to die and how important these rings are And what these women went through to get these rings But then also what they went through in their final moments

[01:30:15] I feel like her taking these rings and giving them back to the eyes to die Is honoring what these women went through That like I agree that's great. I mean a gween I feel better about the scenes Listening to yeah, like yeah, I mean like

[01:30:34] Because the fact that they you know that they wrote it that way specifically to represent how How violated she felt it was just and she experienced it as an actress, you know, I'm sure you know, that's impactful Yeah, absolutely All right. Good stuff. Yes

[01:30:55] Yeah, pretty pretty heavy. That's a pretty heavy scene Um not moving on to listener feedback listener responses Starting off with feedback from shea wide another good episode I think my son has a new favorite character in loyal

[01:31:14] The appearance is not what I pictured but the ogierre mannerisms and way of speaking were great We both hope matt gets help soon Collin was especially sad to see stephen's fate This combined with the torture of a gween and perin made for one of the season's darker episodes

[01:31:30] Can't believe there are only three more episodes. I know right? That is crazy. It went by so fast. I know You're crazy because it's only sorry. It's only been three weeks

[01:31:42] Because we only had we had the three of us at first we were just like man, it's almost over already It's fast. Yeah, it's it's um six weeks. That's that's fast. Yeah, it feels like we got caught up just for the show to end Yep

[01:31:56] Penny Lennox says hi wendy gregg and ben So glad to be joining you for this journey. The podcast has been great at helping get settled in this new world Writing in to say r.i.p stephen

[01:32:10] This episode was full of grief and pain and I was so caught up in the characters And there are different reactions to pain and guilt Lawn and stephen scenes were so real and grounded

[01:32:22] I could see myself in both of them as I reflected on my own experiences of grief my own and others Sometimes a person seems strong And like they have the grief under control But probably he had already decided to kill himself. So he was peaceful

[01:32:40] I mean, he drugged lawn at the beginning of the conversation Then had the goodbye he wanted like bob on walking dead He didn't want to spend his remaining time fighting or crying That funeral was beautiful the light all from a single source

[01:32:56] Like late afternoon light on all those rough stone textures and white raw textiles with both Was both soothing and sad the chest thing and the tears all very affecting I really hope a man is alive. She stabbed him in the shoulder. So i'm sure he's going to survive

[01:33:15] I love everything about the character the performance by abdul salis is mesmerizing The costumes are luxurious and pious at the same time and he's legitimately scary Cheers and happy winter holidays Thank you penny. That was beautifully put penny Yes, yeah, even his

[01:33:36] Livaldo is just he's gonna be alive so that we can watch him die Eventually, I know he's alive. Yeah, I want to watch him die

[01:33:42] I look forward to that if I cosplayed as a child of the light at a con I wonder how many people would get it I mean now Just walk through the car with like five or six people in like cloak gear

[01:33:58] And if I see somebody who looks like a witch of some kind, I just burn her All right, chop off your hands off with the hands rings and let you on fire Um, all right, and we have one call from mr. Steve brown looking forward to this

[01:34:21] Hello house podcast together. This is Steve and this is going to be for uh wheel time season one episode five Does seem like really shallow graves. Is that maybe just because the ground is so frozen still and stuff?

[01:34:33] Okay, so it's one month later. So they didn't want to show us the trip I was kind of looking forward to seeing the walk-in I'm not gonna say what the white tower looks like with those two lumps at the bottom and standing straight up

[01:34:44] Since there's a white tower, do you think there's a dark tower? Get it the dark tower Whoa, dude, you just slapped her across the face man. That's mean Like they're nonviolent, you know, oh, they didn't get very far because now they've been tracked down with the horses

[01:34:58] I like this old gear I'm not going to try to say his name though. But what's the ioman? Yeah, I think you guys were talking about the bond between the isidae and our warders and

[01:35:08] Yeah, this guy, um, I'm gonna catch my throat just thinking about like the struggle he has here of what he's gonna do now Stepping. Oh parents eyes just like changed color when that guy started cutting on him I wonder what that means wait a minute

[01:35:24] What point did he tell her did he tell the oh year he was looking for? Neneve I What something just happened opposite or did I miss something? Oh his eyes changed color again. You can hear the dogs in the background Is she gonna channel?

[01:35:38] Whoa, I guess the wolves are kind of protecting him now. Oh and that one wolf just oh Oh sad kind of ending but All right, can we hear you guys talk about this one? Yeah, uh, so to to answer your question, steve

[01:35:54] I think that uh that loyal and rand had conversations off-screen um, sure where where they uh With you know, you feel oh hey loyal you're gonna you're gonna talk and you're gonna listen Yeah, there's there's definitely some some some good stuff in there

[01:36:14] And and boo to the light tower white tower dark tower reference See what I did there dark tower. Thanks so much to you that was that was fantastic Always great. Yeah, absolutely We appreciate you guys calling in and and all the feedback that we get

[01:36:36] And we're kind of recording on a short timetable this week um, and I don't necessarily know that we that we uh Uh got that out too too early. So that's that's that's that's on us

[01:36:48] Um, but we want to make sure to try to get this out for you as soon as possible after the episode um And if you do have feedback for this episode that you didn't get in in time send it anyway and as I know wendy posted in the

[01:37:03] The podcast of the page that if if you have feedback, we'll read it next week. Yeah, absolutely We love hearing from you guys and uh in passing on all of your awesome insight All right, and so thus ends the fifth episode on the wheel of time

[01:37:19] If you'd like to write in or record a message and send it in you can email it to talk at podcastica.com Check out our facebook page at facebook.com slash podcastica and we are also on twitter at podcastica So, uh, awesome things on the podcastica

[01:37:42] I know wendy is is up to date on all things strange indeed. What are they covering over there wendy? So they made me watch midnight mass and now they're making me watch lock and key

[01:37:55] Um, I will voluntarily watch dexter. So i'm watching dexter. I mean they're they're just knocking out the park great British bake off is just finished I really enjoy that show. It's just amazing this season It's such a palette cleanser because they're all so sweet to each other

[01:38:11] Although I think and I think the holiday bake just released on netflix too. Oh really? I don't think i've seen any of those so that's something I can spend time doing

[01:38:21] I don't know if they're covering them on strange indeed or not. I think they're just covering the main season Lock and key is great like I Really didn't think I'd like that show and then again, they made me watch it

[01:38:33] So I had to go watch it and it was it's been great. I'm completely caught up now I like binged it. I I really enjoy locking key and in their coverage It's one of my favorite ones too. I look forward to it every week

[01:38:45] Um on I think it's thursday as it comes out the strange indeed gets published and I look forward to hearing their coverage so that I can go watch the next because I really want to hear them talk about stuff before I watch the next episode

[01:38:58] Yeah, I don't watch the next episode till after I listen um and Uh dexter is really good somebody said something that I thought it was a 100 percent certain that dexter was just one more season

[01:39:13] But somebody said something that no they might be doing a few seasons. So that kind of was exciting Oh, I mean, yeah, yeah, if you're if you're a dexter fan then uh But I thought they said this was it. They were ending it the right way one season

[01:39:27] But I don't know I thought that's what I had heard too was that this was literally just a short reprieve Yeah, um Just to kind of continue the story a little bit and then that was going to be it

[01:39:37] I thought rima said on the show that she thought they might be more than one season So that's kind of exciting. I I hope so. I hope i'm wrong But I I had thought it was going to be one season. I think rima just hopes there's another season

[01:39:50] And then uh, I think uh walking dead cast is in a little bit of a hiatus with the end of world beyond and uh fear Did that did the fear season it was that complete season or was it a mid-season mid-season finale

[01:40:07] People wish it was the season finale, but it was only the mid season I did post on the patreon group that it was the season finale. I think that was wishful But it is the the mid season. No wishful thinking is hoping it's serious

[01:40:23] They should have ended at the end of last season. I'm just telling them just saying like go out with a bang um And I think that's all we got going on right now until cobra kai and bookaboo effect comes out on this podcast

[01:40:37] Which they're coming up in the next three to four weeks. They're coming Because we have bookaboo buffet. I think is 25th And yeah, book of boba fed is the is the 29th and cobra kai's the 31st. So

[01:40:52] Jason and rima are going to be busy. They'll be real busy Especially rima with strange indeed. Oh, yeah, depending on what they're covering. I think along key will be done by them and then Or actually it'll be real close Yeah, they're gonna be busy

[01:41:08] Yeah, I don't know so Next time on this podcast the wheel of time season one episode six The flame of tarvalon And you'll be and you'll be down one member. Oh, yeah, actually we are gonna have a special guest Um coming in next week

[01:41:27] Uh, I have to confirm it make sure that it works out for who we're getting but uh, We will have a guest a guest host next week because ben will not be able to join us. Unfortunately I will be out of town next week. So

[01:41:43] All right, that's our show Thanks for listening Let the dragon ride again on the winds of time. That's so awesome Wendy doesn't so much better