7: "The Flame of Tar Valon" (The Wheel of Time S1E6)

[00:00:00] What is the purpose of your travels? I cannot say. You dare to challenge me? Perhaps it is your noble blood, Lady Moraine Damodred, that breeds contempt for those you consider beneath you. Outside this tower it seems you do as you please. But I am the Amalyn seat.

[00:00:35] This is my tower, my city, my world. From here to the two rivers in every town between, remember that well while you are here, I will be your guide. I will be your guide. I will be your guide. I will be your guide. I will be your guide.

[00:00:56] Inside this tower I will be your guide. And I'm Wendi. And this is House Podcastica, Wheel of Time Edition. This week we're covering the Wheel of Time Season 1, Episode 6 of Harvey Weng acknowledges the Flame of Tar Valon.

[00:01:29] This week we're covering the Wheel of Time season one episode six, the flame of Tarvalan. And unfortunately this week, Ben couldn't be here, but I am honored to welcome a longtime friend and Wheel of Time Fischianotto to the podcast. Welcome Eric. Hey, it's great to be here.

[00:01:45] I am a longtime fan and a longtime fan of Greg Schwamm. So I'm looking forward to this episode. I appreciate it. Eric and I used to used to work in the same office and we used to have these long extended conversations

[00:01:58] about these particular stories, including how he pronounced names versus how I pronounce names. And I mean, honestly, he's probably a bigger fan of the stories and lore than I am, which is kind of saying something. How did you get introduced to this, Eric?

[00:02:14] So the reason I'm a bigger fan is because I'm older. And so I started earlier than you did, I believe. I found the first one of these books on a submarine library back in 1990. And I found the second book in the same submarine library

[00:02:28] on my second deployment and read the third. And then I bought the fourth book in the bookstore back in whatever that was, 1993. And ever since then, whenever a new book came out, I've reread everything before it and then read the next book.

[00:02:40] So I'd say I'm probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 15 to 20 reads by this point. Did the audio books this year in order to get ready for the show. So I think I remember most of the topics and I'm looking forward.

[00:02:54] I'm really, really enjoying the show and how they're portraying the characters. And I love the fact that I'm getting an experience where I don't know what's going to happen again, which is just takes me back a couple decades. Isn't that awesome? I love it so much.

[00:03:09] Some people complain it's not like the books. I have no desire for that. I want to be surprised. And this one certainly surprised me. So anxious to talk about it. Yeah, absolutely. How do you think it lived up to your expectations?

[00:03:22] I think they did such an amazing job with the characters that absolutely met my expectation. Pretty much everything that they have shown on screen has either has either fulfilled what I would have wanted or surpassed it because they did it way cooler than I could have ever imagined.

[00:03:40] So I've been very thrilled with how they've how they've represented the books on the screen. So I mentioned this during one of our previous episodes, but I felt that the I felt that the the Game of Thrones TV show

[00:03:56] was a fantastic companion piece where they elaborated on more things in in the TV show and made things more apparent than they did in the books. I know like very specifically, Runeley Bratharion being gay or Brathion being gay. I had zero concept.

[00:04:13] I didn't I didn't read the subtext in the books. I didn't get it. And it was very apparent in the show. Very. Yeah, very, very. And I and I am finding that is you're getting a lot of scenes in this

[00:04:29] that you didn't get in the books because they were effectively point of view chapters, not as not as specifically point of view as Game of Thrones was. But there I mean, I really am enjoying a lot of the extrapolation

[00:04:46] of some of the scenes like something like we low gains, generally you hear in passing in the book and then here you actually get to see how it how how this version of it happens. And I thought it's great. No, I'm enjoying the relationships as well.

[00:04:59] I think the point of view perspective that that that you get in the book leaves out some relationship building that is really well done in the show. And I think it brings out some characters. You know, I've heard you guys comment on, you know,

[00:05:12] Zoe Robbins portrayal of Nine Eve and that's certainly much better in this rendition of the story than it was in the books for several books and map the same way. You know, he's a likable character now where it took three or four books

[00:05:27] before you really started to like that character. So I just think they're doing a really good job with it. Yeah. So moving into this particular episode, the Flametarve one initial general thoughts. Eric, you want to start off as our guest? Sure.

[00:05:44] I thought you had two Oscar winning actresses that gave a great hour of television and I don't want to get ahead of my one, two and threes, but I thought the the interactions between Moraine and the Amalyn seat were just tremendous

[00:06:02] and carried the whole episode and I thought it was it was fantastic. I agreed. I think just like the last two episodes, we've really been able to see the world of the warders. This episode really helped us see the world of the Isidae much more so

[00:06:23] and everything is just so beautiful and the acting you just couldn't ask for better. It's amazing. Yeah, absolutely. I like I know that we are a podcast on this show and you know,

[00:06:38] I tend to be like, oh, well, I mean, of course, those people are going to gush about the show. But this this is this is fucking awesome and especially this time in particular, like this episode in particular that didn't have heavy

[00:06:54] action scenes and it was it was carried by the performances and the interactions. It was just it was just amazing how well they played off of each other and then the I mean, just the the presence of Sophie Okamura is that

[00:07:12] like her presence on screen was just that who plays to when? Yeah. Yes, she was so good. She's so good. Yeah. But yeah, so moving into our top three and as a as a non non and not as familiar, Wendy, what is your number three?

[00:07:35] So I guess I guess I'll go ahead and lead with the top three highlights for Wheel of Time of the Six the flame of Tarvalan. So my number three was Suann. Am I saying that right? Swan. Yeah, swan like the bird swan. Yeah. Okay.

[00:07:56] Um, we're six episodes in. We're coming to the end of the first season of the show and this is the first we've seen of Swan up until this point. I expected her to be the enemy based on what others have said

[00:08:13] about her and how it appeared that everyone spoke fearfully and just in general badly about her. And what we saw of her in the first circle chamber, I'm sure I don't know if there's a technical word for that.

[00:08:32] It's the Hall of the Tower, the Hall of the Tower. What we saw of her first in that Hall of the Tower lived up to those expectations that I had. She seemed to be merciless and and she seemed to be set

[00:08:46] to humiliate some of the other eyes to die in a show of power. However, that scene was bookended by two really powerful scenes that gave us a better idea of who Suann really was. The opening scene shows her as a little girl with her father.

[00:09:04] It's a sweet scene between the two of them. You can see that Swan is just beginning to come into her powers. Her father seems very protective of her and we can see that there are people out there that would hurt Swan just because she can channel.

[00:09:24] And I had empathy for their house being burnt to the ground and obviously she wasn't safe where she was. And as she was departing rowing away, you could really see her strength in her resolve. She didn't want to leave her dad, but she also seemed old enough

[00:09:48] to know that that was what was best and that's what needed to happen. And then the other scene that bookended our perception of Swan and really molds what we see of her is that we realize Moraine and Swan are a couple and this scene between the

[00:10:09] two of them was really amazing. You can see that they care deeply about each other. They appear to be in love, but their love still comes secondary to what they're trying to do with the Isidae. Moraine hasn't seen Swan for two years and they've now

[00:10:27] kind of arranged to banish Moraine from the tower so that she can continue to complete her mission. And both of them seem to be acting selflessly to protect the people of the world and to put kind of saving the world

[00:10:47] before their own selfish interests or before being together, which was sad and wonderful all at the same time. I just loved her character and she's nothing like what she looks like. Right. Yeah, the perceptions and the reputation precedes her, however, it's not.

[00:11:11] I mean, it may be what she has to put on the air to put on as the leader of the Isidae, but it's it's not who she is, which is awesome. And I'm just going to point out that these these these two

[00:11:26] actresses together did you get any sense that they were not the same person like they were not the same character both the young Swan and Sophie Acomora. They like they were both just they were seamless. I did a wonderful job of casting that young lady that

[00:11:44] played young Suwon. I thought she was just spot on and it just transitioned right into the Amarillo seat and you can see 20 years later, maybe that's what she's like. I thought they did that really well. Yes, I agree. Yes, it was it was so good.

[00:12:01] So to that that that opening scene points. So a few episodes back when when Ben mentioned the dragon Fang and we hadn't pointed it out or anything like that. And I he I think that he said something to the fact

[00:12:19] of it represented the dragon and I agreed with him. So watching it again or watching this again, I do want to make a correction to what I what I said. So what it represents is the dark one right? So when someone paints their paints that on someone's door,

[00:12:37] that's saying, hey, this person is a dark friend or a servant of the dark as opposed to a supporter of the dragon or whatever. I said that before and I was just like, oh man, I totally

[00:12:52] mess that up and I should have been able to kind of nail that better. Yeah, it's kind of used to throw shade at people, right? So if you're going to scroll that on somebody's door, I mean, burning down the house was probably a pretty big way

[00:13:06] of throwing shade in and of itself. But you know, whenever people scroll it on somebody's door or something like that, they're throwing shade. I think they're reclaiming a little bit in the show because you know, it's showing up in the pool. It's showing up with the sheep slaughter.

[00:13:19] They're using it some other ways for foretelling, but it's a way to throw shade for sure. Yeah. Yeah, that's swan was a fantastic addition to the show. And I mean, you got so much character development in this

[00:13:37] one episode of her that it was just like, oh, here's swan story her swan song and then like beginning to end and you're like, OK, I'm all caught up. I know what I know about swan and I got all of the

[00:13:53] all everything that I need to do and I'm looking forward to see what she does next. It's it was it was great. I thought it also added a lot to Marine's character as well because she's been, you know, she's she's probably the least developed person.

[00:14:06] We don't know a lot about her history or all of that. And I thought this was really just we saw a different side of her much softer side of her. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, the Marine is is a big part of two of my point.

[00:14:23] Probably three of my points. So I will get more into those a little bit later. That was that's that's great. Eric. Yeah, so I think my number three goes right along with this, but it's it's a more specific portion which is low gain being before the ambulance seat.

[00:14:42] I love the actor that plays low gain. I think he's been phenomenal in all the episodes he's been in and they really used him to further the story with his you know, couple minutes in front of the ambulance seat there right saying how they're growing weak.

[00:14:57] You know, I always I was wondering why the white cloaks would be right outside Tar Val and able to persecute people and he calls them out and says this because you're weak now you don't have any influence anymore.

[00:15:10] So I thought that kind of sewed that up a little bit from the episode before for why that could happen. And then when he just says state the green bitch to the wall, I was like, holy cow. What is what is this?

[00:15:21] You know, it didn't seem it seems so out of character because you know, he didn't he healed the king instead of killing him and he'd he'd seem so generous. And then he was so in control. He was never like just blatantly cruel like that before such

[00:15:37] a good person and now he's you know, gloating about staking green bitches to the wall. I was like, wow, that was that was crazy. But then you come to understand and swan saw it before we did. I guess that hey, he's trying to be killed.

[00:15:50] He wants to die and she sees right through it gives a very harsh judgment, right? That you're going to stay here and be studied until you go mad. That sounds that sounds wonderful. And then just dragging him out as he pleads and screams

[00:16:06] and I just I thought his acting was great and the reaction of all the ice to die, you know, to his predicament they didn't seem to feel very sorry for him. I mean, Moraine had a little bit of a touch of sorryness for him, but nobody else.

[00:16:19] They're like, yep, that's what you get and you'll be walking around this tower for years to come. Just in torment while we study you like an insect. That's that was pretty hard. So that that was my number three.

[00:16:30] I thought they you know the actors were great and I thought they they answered some questions that I had from the previous episode. So so that kind of tied into what Wendy was talking about and like that harshness that we see from swan

[00:16:43] the first time we see her she is full bore the Cameron seat and she's like, all right, bring him in front of me. Oh, I see what you're what you're doing and yeah, I ain't no fool. You basically fuck you that's basically what she said

[00:17:09] was like, yeah, like you said, you're basically just going to live in torture until you go mad so that we can like there's no purpose to it. It doesn't feel like there's any purpose to it. You'll be studied sure, but it's not like there's a goal. Isn't it?

[00:17:24] We're just going to watch you until you suffer to the point where you dive old age and you spent the next 30 40 50 years in constant torment. It's even worse than just getting old and she thinks he's going to continue to go mad which I don't know.

[00:17:41] I mean, does the corruption of, you know, having shantled continue to afflict him moving forward? Does he get worse and worse and worse for years? And I mean, you're you're condemning somebody to just slowly go insane over years. That's well, that was well, that was something that

[00:18:01] was something that I was curious about when when Tom related his story about his about Owen, his nephew, whether or not like I guess I guess the loss of the source is what is so maddening. That's what I took it to mean when he was talking about

[00:18:19] his nephew. It's it's whatever they're taking away, they're taking away, you know, sanity. Yeah, imagine I would never be able to taste tiramisu, but that's all I was served all the time and I love tiramisu and I can't taste it anymore all like.

[00:18:36] So funny story about that when I got COVID about a year ago, the when I realized that I had symptoms was when I was eating some tiramisu and I was just like this tastes like cold water. Like where's the coffee flavor? That absolutely maddening.

[00:18:54] Yeah, no, I understand that's a little bit. It's like, you know, pure bliss versus tiramisu, but I could see it. I think tiramisu can be pure bliss. I think it can get there. I'm not a fan. All right, fair enough. I also thought he had a point.

[00:19:14] A lot of people followed him. What does that say? I mean, that definitely shows kind of a slippage of the Isidae's power if all those people were willing to go against them or willing to believe in this guy.

[00:19:34] Yeah, I don't know if it if it's a matter of. Yeah, he says a hundred years ago like, you know, there's I'd be thrown from a parapet if I if I even mentioned it, but in this particular time.

[00:19:53] I don't know if it says more to the social standing kind of like kind of like Dana was talking about in episode three where, you know, there are people who are just suffering and they are, you know, more and more people like, hey, I just I want for.

[00:20:14] I went for the dragon to make everything better. Maybe a hundred years ago, things weren't so bad. And there wasn't such a stark difference in the social class and peasants versus nobles and all that. But I agree with you like, I think it's less about the

[00:20:33] Isidae than it is about the like the quality of life that people are living. Maybe a hundred years before they were. They were. They were less fearful. You know, maybe they were maybe or they may be more fearful or maybe they're the previous Amalyn was much more generous

[00:20:57] or whatever. But yeah, yes, he I agree with you. He absolutely he had a point, although I don't necessarily know that it'd be the power of the Isidae versus the status of a life that someone and how shitty a life someone's living.

[00:21:14] Yeah, the quality of life may be a bigger impact there than you know, the Isidae scary factor. Yeah, that's that's that's a good good point. And anything else on that, Eric? Nope, that's it. Okay, so for my number three, we've been talking about

[00:21:32] him a little bit, but I want to go ahead and talk about what we found out about the Isidae. Now we have found out that they are broken up into Ajah's and they are each dictated by a color and we kind of talked

[00:21:47] about this before, but each each color, you know, whenever they whenever they become Isidae or took the shawl, they selected a color to or an Ajah to join. And so they are split into Ajah's each Ajah has a purpose.

[00:22:09] We talked about Reds or the sheriffs, you know, making sure people don't use the one power for ill. The blues are super secret informative people that, you know, use the information that they get in order to prevent threats throughout the world.

[00:22:27] The yellows they talked about were all about healing. Um, the, uh, the, let me see. Was there any of the green is the battle Ajah and then the three that I believe we haven't heard about are the brown, the gray and the white.

[00:22:44] But there's a yellow too, right? The healing. Yeah. Um, yes. So the yellows are healers. The green or battle Ajah, the Reds or sheriffs, the blues are spies. Um, and then we there are the three others. So they are split into seven Ajah's and the Amarlin seat is

[00:23:04] raised from one of them. Uh, but then she takes no, she basically has to drop all connections and she can be of no Ajah's and all. Um, now, uh, what we saw in the hall of the tower was each of the sitters.

[00:23:23] And I think Megan, uh, was the like the lead councilman, councilwoman for the blue, um, the one that the woman who was going to keep moraine at the tower. Right. So, uh, three sitters, um, are, you know, those are the

[00:23:40] three people on each of the, the three thrones in each of the sections that we saw in the hall. Um, they are basically like the representatives, right? So they're the senators of the Ajah's and, um, and

[00:23:56] I'm just trying to, I mean, I guess the easiest way to think about it is just like that. Just like a government, right? So you have in the U S at least we have the president and then we have, uh, the, the three branches of the three

[00:24:09] branches of the government. And, um, then when we talk about the, let's just talk about the, the joint chiefs, right? So you take the lead joint chief liaison and you put them in a room. So they're all hanging out together and they discuss

[00:24:27] what they want to do and they present options. Hey, the Navy wants to do this. The Air Force wants to do this space force wants to, you know, fire missiles from a satellite or something. Um, but, uh, so, uh, I thought that was, that was

[00:24:43] really, I thought it was really well put together and it was, and they kind of used ceremony to, uh, to explain some things without it being exposition. Uh, so like, oh, hey, I have to say these words, but it really is just getting the point across.

[00:25:04] Uh, you'd be like, oh, this is exposition, but if they're saying it in a ceremony, well, hey, this is kind of like the, the twathewan on the, uh, and, oh, but we do not know the song. You know, you need to say the words.

[00:25:16] Um, or bang the staff, right? Because you don't know what that bang into the staff means when Leanne bangs it on the floor. It shuts anybody up. Yeah. Thank you for the, uh, thank you subtitles for being able to tell me, you know, Leanne Sharif, you know, and

[00:25:34] she gasps, it was just gasping. It was just really funny. Um, uh, and some, so we have the sitters and then we have, um, so that's all known as the hall and they're like the governing body and all that. Um, and then the amulet on top.

[00:25:51] So I, I liked that we saw proceedings to this and rather than just had it explained to us. Now we kind of did, but after we basically, we saw it and then when, when Marine was explaining to Egwayne, um, it made more sense as to, oh, okay.

[00:26:10] That's who those three people were. But then did you guys also notice that the green only had two there? So it makes me wonder if Karine was, yeah, like the third one and now she's absent. Yeah, that's what I took right to you.

[00:26:24] Um, so they'll probably have to replace her somehow. Yeah, I thought that was, I thought that was a, oh, well that was, so they not only lost a member of the green aja, but one of the centers, which is, you know, a big deal. Right.

[00:26:38] Um, I thought it was interesting that the green in the red flanked the seat almost like they had a little more power than the others. Closer. Yeah. Yeah. The right hand or left hand? Yeah, I like the way you relate it to, you know, like

[00:26:56] the US government because we also found out that the ambulance seat is not all powerful that if they find out what she's doing, you know, she could be stilled, which would be the equivalent of being impeached. So, you know, that that Congress has some power.

[00:27:10] If things go, if they don't like what's going on. So that was interesting to an interesting reveal as well. Yeah. And then they were talking about swan losing, you know, uh, I think it was Alana said that, uh, swan was,

[00:27:25] was losing her grip and Moira, Moira, Moira, Moira, that's I've always called her a meraine in my head, but Moira, um, said on, you know, on her power or on her sanity and I was like, Oh, that's a, that's pretty harsh.

[00:27:43] And then we see, let's see later that it's like, oh, okay, got it. Um, but yeah, that was nine over three, like finding out all more or the more about the ice and I that, uh, and the power structure where we kind of talked about it

[00:27:58] last week being like a pit of vipers. Um, and, uh, and I, that I now it's like, okay, well, yeah, this sounds very similar to like the house of representatives where you could get into politics and they could eat you alive.

[00:28:16] But yeah, that was, that was all for my number three. Wendy, I feel like I'm still talking about the same stuff, but my number two was the portal that Meraine used to go spend time with swan. Um, is this a portal to an actual place or a portal

[00:28:39] to another plane dimension? It was confusing to me. It seemed to be a fishing cottage and we know that swan grew up in something like that. So I couldn't figure out if that was like a pretend place that they went to, or was it, they were actually.

[00:29:02] So was it where they going to the matrix? And right, or were they actually going to a place that they have the power to go to? I think, I think that that was probably a cottage that swan owned in tear in her home of tear.

[00:29:22] So you think, you think they went all the way to tear? I consider that a almost on another plane. You know, we've seen some dream stuff already go on. Dreams are a very big part of this world as we've, you know, swan talked about her dreams.

[00:29:40] We've seen, you know, that the dude with the, with the, you know, cold or the embers for eyes and dreams. I consider this kind of like a way to go outside the world to a dream space and be together. But I don't think we know.

[00:29:55] I don't, I don't think we know exactly where I do know that the Amalyn had the same kind of thing in her room as Moraine Moraine. That's hard to say for me too, Greg, that Moraine had in hers.

[00:30:09] So they both had the same, you know, picture frame that enabled them to connect somehow. Yeah, I did see it in hers too. So that is a good point. That is a good point because I was wondering,

[00:30:23] I was trying to figure out if I was like, but I don't see like an equivalent one in the room that they were in and then we saw at least what I think were the ambulance chambers when Nine Yave and, and Egwain were escorted to her.

[00:30:43] That was that is that is a good point. And I obviously did not think about it. Well, I mean, I paused it when I saw it because I was very excited because the whole, the last episode she, you know, Moraine stared at it and you can't

[00:30:57] figure out why she's staring at it. I don't know what is this thing? And then when they went in and she was sitting, you know, in her casual clothes, so to speak, and it was right behind her. I paused it.

[00:31:08] I was like, it's a different picture, but it's the same kind of box. So I don't know. So I felt vindicated when I saw her have that open and then shut it. I was like, I mentioned that last episode. That's important. We're going to see that again.

[00:31:24] One on first watch. I couldn't figure out what was going on, but on second watch, I took notes that this is probably the only time we've seen Moraine look in a mirror. She was putting lotion on. You could tell she was kind of preparing for this.

[00:31:41] And then on the first watch, I thought that she broke the bond with Lon or she or she held it somehow. Paused it. I thought that that meant he wasn't aware of what was happening, but on second watch, he was aware.

[00:32:03] He knows about them and he's still like telling her it's not safe for you to break the bond, but she did and because she wants some privacy, I'm guessing. And you know, he accepted that and at the end, he actually said something like tell her, give her my

[00:32:24] love or something like that. So on second watch, I realized he absolutely knew what was happening. So I think that she masked the bond when she went to visit a Gween and parent. And that because it was after that when he said, hey, you messed the bond.

[00:32:41] I can't protect you if I don't know where you're at or whatever. So I took it to mean that it was because she was leaving. She was going wherever she went in that portal. I did too, Randy. I took it as soon as she put on her Nightwear,

[00:32:56] which is the first time we've seen her not dressed in blue. Yeah. To my knowledge, right? Yeah. As soon as she's put on her Nightwear and started to you know, get herself ready for the evening. That's when I took it that she masked the bond as well. So

[00:33:10] so the reason the reason I thought it was when she went to visit parent and a Gween. I keep I heard people talk to say a Gween and I saw I keep shifting back and forth from a Gween to a Gween.

[00:33:24] I I thought that the point was that he couldn't protect her during that period. Now, I don't remember seeing land at the at whatever wherever they were at with parent and Gween. But yeah, so I think that that's where he masked it,

[00:33:47] but we'll find out or we won't. We will because like you said, Wendy, like he I can I can see why you know, you would mask it, especially given the extracurricular activities that they engaged in. Right. I'm guessing she wants to go. Yeah.

[00:34:05] At that point you go, okay, sure. Like I get why you're masking it now, but right. He still didn't like it. Yeah, I mean, but like, hey, okay, I get it. I get what you're going to go do and then once

[00:34:16] you go and you mass the bond fantastic. Great. But don't do it beforehand. Yeah. Be back before dawn. Yeah. That that that scene made me giggle. Did it sound like a suggestion? Yeah. And then there was there was another line that I'll get

[00:34:34] to you later that every time I watch it, it makes me laugh. The other thing that Marine said is Swan says something about following the rules and Marine says, when have we followed the rules? And I just thought that was interesting that, you know,

[00:34:52] they seem more like guidelines. More like guidelines. Yeah. Except for the oaths, the oaths, you have to follow those. Although the words that were used very specifically, not just by more rain, but by Swan, I thought was like, I was like, oh, the word she uses.

[00:35:16] Oh, perhaps it seems or perhaps you think that whatever. Well, there's no definitive truth in that. There's I'm not stating anything by saying perhaps you think something right? It seems that your noble blood. Well, it seems also there's no definitive words or no definitive action by that.

[00:35:36] That is just oh, it seems well, okay, could seem a lot of things to a lot of different people. Although that was that was really cool and just an example of how I said I can say something.

[00:35:47] Was it the more instant the truth that we say may not be the truth that you hear? I have it on good authority that they're alive. Yeah, exactly like we're just with them. Yeah, I have watchers. I have watchers, you know, waiting not incorrect, not a

[00:36:04] lie and you know, I have it on good authority. Also, that's one of the notes I have is like now that I'm aware of the whole line situation. I'm totally tuned into that. Yeah, it's like it's fantastic and I love the way that

[00:36:22] they are basically I feel like they're almost dropping things. Yes, they're doing it in service of the story, but they're dropping things for us to think about it and to catch it right, which I think is great. It makes it an interactive experience and it's I love it.

[00:36:38] It also does something that the books did. It makes you want to rewatch the show like you want to rewatch the books because you feel like you're missing stuff and watch it again. You're like, oh, I missed that the first time, second time, whatever.

[00:36:51] It's the same way I feel when I read the books is all I forgot that that happened or I never noticed they mentioned that all the foreshadowing. It's a it's a very similar experience. Yeah, what when I when I reread books like Eric did

[00:37:03] when new books came out, I absolutely like you find out something in book, you know, eight and then you go back and you read book three and you're like, oh, that's what this prophecy was talking about or whatever. I mean, don't be wrong.

[00:37:18] He had literally decades to tie all those ins together and he did it. You're listening, George RR Martin. He did it and so we got the into this story. Somebody finished anyway. Well, yeah, fair enough. All right. Yeah, that's that's great, Wendy. Eric number two.

[00:37:39] Yeah, my number two was Matt's healing. So I love the fact that, you know, she sneaks up. She has a cup of tea and this very fancy little tea balcony kind of thing. You see loyal who we don't get enough of, but I just love his character.

[00:37:57] You see him walk out land comes they go over there. You know, Rand is very protective of Matt, which I thought was writing character for him. Land just puts him down like it's nothing which was also a character for land. You don't pull a sword on a moraine.

[00:38:15] That's not going to work. And then just the special effects to do the exorcism. I mean, I don't I don't know what I would have imagined that to be like, but I would assert. I certainly never imagined black stuff being drawn

[00:38:30] out of him and then covering her mouth. Like why did they cover her mouth? It was such a gross choice and I loved it so much because it was just so creepy. And then, you know, putting it back into the dagger

[00:38:43] and you know, so one we got Matt back and got him healed and off of, you know, whatever bad trip he was on. But they're still, you know, what happened to that dagger and gets covered by a blanket and where did it go?

[00:38:58] Did it go to the tower? Does land have it? Does moraine have it? Does I mean, no one should be carrying it, right? I mean, that's the whole. Yeah. So where do you put this evil thing? Where does it go? And it's got to be somewhere.

[00:39:12] I don't think it goes into a box into a warehouse with other boxes with the Ark of the Covenant Ark. That's right. So I just I thought that whole scene was really was really good. And then then they wrapped it up with with a couple great things.

[00:39:27] One, they had, you know, ran coming to trust Moraine again, which I think is important to have them kind of on, you know, going in the same direction. So the whole thank you and how that worked and and how she would be willing to help any of them.

[00:39:42] And then the first of two times in this episode that I need got put in her place because she was, you know, she was feeling her oats a little bit, I think, and Moraine kind of put her down with, you know, if you're a wisdom, have some

[00:39:54] wisdom kind of quote that was I thought that was pretty good too. So I just like the whole healing of him and, and, you know, kind of bringing the Emons field group back together. I thought that was a really cool scene that they had in this episode.

[00:40:09] So directly, I mean quotes directly from the book. Oh, you stupid boy. I was just like, oh, there it is. There's there's there's the the asadai, you know, noble woman being like what the fuck is wrong with you? But that is a direct quote out of the book.

[00:40:32] Um, and then I believe that the wisdom line was also pulled from the book. Um, and I need to, I haven't even picked it back up. I'm like 60 or 80 pages into the other world again. And I haven't continued yet, but I feel like after the

[00:40:53] after the season's over, I'll go back and reread that one or finish rereading it. And I'm going to pick up on a lot more with regard to that. But yeah, like that's and then I'm just going to, I want to

[00:41:04] touch on something and I don't want to steal one of you guys's points, but so we talked about Matt being healed and we talked about Moraine telling Rand that if he were to touch the dagger again, it could just immediately take hold of him

[00:41:26] again and all that because darkness and this, that and the other. But when Matt didn't go into the ways at the end, it showed Matt's face and then it then it flashed to Moraine and I personally felt this was like the most Austin Powers

[00:41:49] steamroller with a guy going very slowly to like that. Come on, come on. And he's just standing there and like the portal is closing and it's closing so slowly. It was like if you really wanted him to come, you go get him. Like that's what are you doing?

[00:42:08] But did the other of you guys think that Moraine told him to hang back? Moraine didn't seem surprised at all. Yeah, right? She and she wasn't calling for him to come. Yeah, she wasn't saying, hey, what are you doing? Getting your own not going to be safe. Right.

[00:42:23] And she opened right. You think she could hold it open if she wanted to, you know? I mean, if you opened it, just keep holding it open. Yeah, just like I feel like Moraine told him, hey, like if

[00:42:37] you come in here, you may be like what you you literally just had all this shit sucked out of you by me. So please believe me when I say don't fucking come in here. I feel like they're that we're going to find out that she

[00:42:54] warned him against it or whatever. It's so it's hard because we know what happened with Barney Harris and so I don't know how much like I don't know this is one of the things that's so interesting to me is I don't

[00:43:09] know where they're going with the story because they had to change the story because you know, we know that episode six is the last episode that he filmed and they had their COVID break and he doesn't come back.

[00:43:19] And so, you know, you guys talked about in the previous episode in your news coverage, you know, we're done with that actor portraying that character. Are we? I didn't I did not know that he only filmed through this episode. Yeah, they'd filmed through episode six on their first

[00:43:34] COVID break and he never came back from that one. So I didn't know that. Oh, I'm sorry. Do we know I should have said that section. No, that's okay. I know he wasn't coming back after this season. Yeah, I thought that I thought you're going to see him

[00:43:47] after episode seven. No, he wasn't he wasn't back for the block six or the last block of shooting which was episode seven and eight. Do we know why? No, they it's been very low key and great. I thought Greg did a great job of covering it when

[00:44:01] he when he put it out in the news, you know, he turned off all his social media. The show is never addressed why he's never addressed why that's not good. Yeah, that's so hopefully everybody's okay. Exactly. You just hope for the best for everybody, but we don't know.

[00:44:16] We don't know why this choice happened. But yeah, so I believe it's the last time we see Matt in this season. They may have a few clips that they had that they're going to use and show. But I have some empathy for the production and the

[00:44:32] writers that had to go change whatever they were going to do to cover for that. So, but yeah, I don't know. But it leaves all those possibilities that you just talked about, like, you know, the dagger and was this Marines intent? Was it the Amherst intent?

[00:44:48] You know, all those things are open possibilities now, which is a great thing to be able to theorize about. It's just it's an awesome thing to be able to so much fun to talk about. Exactly. It's great. All right. Was that you Eric? Yep.

[00:45:06] You're time for your note. Okay, Greg. All right. So my number two. I want to go ahead and address the the scene between Swan and Marine and the specifically the one in the fishing village or the the Matrix. So specifically what I would I mean I won.

[00:45:37] I thought that we talked about it. These two powerhouses just acting together and I want to know. So thank you again, subtitles. Good. Get our was a is a character. I'm assuming that made a prophecy who announced that the dragon was reborn.

[00:46:01] They've been apparently doing this basically since that happened during that time. Swan was elected to the emerald seat. I mean, did she like lobby for it? Did she was it was was it just like, oh, hey, we're just going to choose this person because just because and

[00:46:23] you know, it was yeah, maybe she was the strongest and that's something they've also talked about like 98 is even more powerful than you mother. And so do they elect the the emerald seat or the the emerald seat based on strengthen the power?

[00:46:41] Is it oh, whoever is the strongest do they do like like a training exercise and whoever can make the biggest fireball you're the OK. You're the emerald seat now. I believe it's like Black Panther where they fight in a pool.

[00:46:54] Okay, yeah, dual to the to submission or death. That's right. But yeah, so I thought that I want I want to know more about that and about and I imagine we will get it. Although Swan did a pretty good job almost like if

[00:47:11] they never mentioned it again, pretty good wrapping it up at the end like hey, you know when she was talking to 98 and in a Gwine, she is another one another another pronunciation. When when she basically said, hey, like we know this

[00:47:28] is happening and then they talked about like the the dragon soul being split into multiple parts and could this be could this happen like what what is what is going on? Many headed dragon. I wrote that. That's one of my notes is like I never considered a possibility

[00:47:45] of a many headed dragon and yeah, and Marine would just kill them all herself too. That was that was all together. Yeah, so I like I really dug on that scene. So I'm just going to this is not necessarily spoilery for the

[00:48:03] books, but they definitely like at some point in the in the books. There is there's a phrase called pillow friends and when I was in the books or when I was reading the books, I was maybe a little bit younger and a little bit more

[00:48:22] naive, a little bit less worldly and I I honest to God just thought about two two girls lying together talking on like pillow talk and I just not necessarily the the the brightest I was. But I love the fact that that they that they like hey,

[00:48:49] they were pillow friends and now like I had I had always I always kind of understood that they were intimate like that in when they were younger, but I didn't get that ever in the books that they did that relationship continued.

[00:49:04] This is that this is what I'm talking about as far as the companion piece to the books because this they pulled exact lines from the book hearing swan say I hate it when you call me that like that with this context it made so much more sense as

[00:49:25] opposed to like hey, we were friends and now I'm the boss so now you have to call me. Call me boss and I hate but I hate how you call me boss and so I hate it with you and this is it makes it so much more impactful.

[00:49:39] And it makes that line means so much more and I love it this this was my this was my Loris and and really seen from from Game of Thrones. I was just like oh my God this makes so much more sense

[00:49:56] now and I get it and I like the fact that they're exploring that and making them they're fleshing out that relationship and kind of showing you that without making it like without making completely not only blatant, but it wasn't yeah, it wasn't gratuitous

[00:50:14] anything I'm with you I thought it had thank you. Yeah, I thought it added a lot of weight and consequence to everything that was going on right just the fact that they could get caught and be stilled the fact

[00:50:25] that they still cared about each other so much to be using their their picture frames to go find each other and still wanted to be with each other even if it's only once every two years. I just thought that the gravity of the whole

[00:50:37] situation was just ramped up because they chose to do it that way and and I thought it was really good writing to go do that. Yeah, like absolutely and then although it I mean I guess if Moiraine can only do that when she's in the

[00:50:55] tower because it's mounted in her room. She couldn't like take it with her and like whenever I have the opportunity. So it's been at least two years since she's able to do that so that's I didn't think about that

[00:51:08] until just now I was kind of was I was definitely thinking like oh why don't you just just go hang out like every night and yeah. It was sweet. It was a sweet and tender and melancholy scene all at

[00:51:22] the same time and I love that the boss curses like a sailor or at least this this this this shows version of cursing. It was nice and sweet but it was awesome on your knees. That was a good cut of a little payback.

[00:51:41] Yeah, that would that would that worked all right. So yeah. Yeah, it was I thought it was like I thought that whole scene was was fantastic and and again like Wendy mentioned earlier like the depth of character is swan just you see so many levels in this episode

[00:52:00] and this was truly her episode. Yeah, fantastic. That's all I have for number two. My number one ties into a little bit of what Eric was talking about. I felt like finally we have all our principles together again in the same place.

[00:52:18] We have Maureen and land we have parent and a Gwain nine nave and Matt. Brand and the builder and we still don't know who the dragon is they all appear to I mean I definitely thought it was nine a but obviously it hasn't been revealed yet.

[00:52:39] They all appear to have some kind of special powers and it seems that even Maureen and Lawn are very doubting if this is going to be a showdown between the dark one and the dragon and everybody else is probably going to die is basically what she was saying.

[00:53:05] And so you're asking these young adults to you know probably go through this portal to their death and then the portal opens up and it looks like nowhere you want to go. I think I was watching it with my husband and he's

[00:53:22] like yeah hard pass like no I'm not stepping through the portal to hell. So it looked really foreboding and ominous and I didn't understand why Matt didn't go but I did feel like something was happening there because Maureen didn't seem surprised.

[00:53:44] So it was obvious they were trying to tell us something but I couldn't figure out what it was but it was really cool to see them all together again for a second. Yeah and every week ends with me wanting to see

[00:54:01] the next episode right now and as long as they can keep doing that I think that's good. Yeah I thought there were Union where they're all poking fun at each other you know like well at least I didn't pick up an evil dagger.

[00:54:14] You know just seemed like old friends meeting like that and it was really touching I thought. Yeah it's I can only imagine what each of them have been through between a Gwynn Perrin and the Wolves and the Tinkers and the White Cloaks and

[00:54:32] random Matt and the you know and Tom and the Dark Friend and the Fade and the the Farmers and then Nine Yave and her whole escorting Moraine and in land and the death of Steppen and who am I missing is that everybody? I guess that was everybody.

[00:54:59] So like it's shocking that one of them didn't die. Like I just like as much crazy shit has that has happened the fact that they are all still there and they're all just kind of like oh hey

[00:55:15] I guess I'm I guess I'm not a moron like you are. Oh yeah you know feed anybody to any wolves recently or whatever knock down any doors that three people shouldn't be able to knock down. Oh all right which no one has no one knows about

[00:55:33] that right with Rand but oh yeah anyway so yeah I thought that that that it was just like people getting together who haven't seen each other and down playing everything they've been through even if they went through some crazy shit. I thought it was great.

[00:55:56] Well my number one is kind of like Wendy's number two with with Moraine and Swan's relationship but I'll bring up a couple different things that I really liked about it right because of that because we know that that relationship exists and they have their

[00:56:10] their trust in the fishing hut you know through the portal whatever you know now it just set up a bunch of other cool things for the rest of the episode and so you know you got you got to hear Moraine say

[00:56:21] that you know she waits on only one moment and it's not you I just love that line as she was walking away because we all know that's that's the line that makes me laugh it made me laugh both times

[00:56:31] I watched it is like they really see it waits on only one one and that is not you. The smirk on her face was just I thought it was priceless that was great and then I thought it really did a good job of capturing their relationship and their

[00:56:47] sacrifice when Swan talked to Nineveh and the Queen right. So she's telling them you know first off they tried to leave like nine he's like no we're out of here we don't want any part of this and one finger went

[00:57:00] up in the air and they're like put on the brakes I was I was totally waiting for her to come down with like the fist of the emerald and yeah it was like but she didn't have to you know just a finger

[00:57:12] that's all it took right and then but she she explained to them about the sacrifice and how the wheel is calling them to a higher purpose and they're going to have to you know make those choices and it would be much easier to be with

[00:57:23] the ones they love and grow old together and have life of lives of less consequence and it felt like she was talking to Moraine at the same time she was talking to these you know two young ladies I just thought that was a really

[00:57:36] well done scene you know it really it's really gave you insight into how wouldn't what motivates her so I thought that was that was awesome and then you know the end of the episode I mean they pretty much got married over the oath

[00:57:51] rod right honor and obey kind of ceremony I mean that's that's what it felt like to me it didn't feel like somebody being exiled it felt like two people getting married over an oath rod and just the subtle touching of the

[00:58:05] fingers and stuff like that so I just you know I know I started that way with their relationship as you know what this episode was about but it's also my number one because I thought they just use that through line through the whole

[00:58:18] thing to really you know explain what everybody is willing to do to go you know to do the right thing for the rest of the world so I thought that was that was well done the only thing I'll add is that 9a

[00:58:33] obviously she has long distrust of the eyes and I and what she is seen so far hasn't made her trust anybody anymore and I think that's a little bit dangerous because she you know her and Rand both knew about Matt's condition

[00:58:55] but they hit it from Marine and that could have killed him. Marine was able to relatively easily cure him of the demon that was possessing him because he had touched the dagger and if they had let that go on longer which they were

[00:59:18] they were you know actively hiding that then he probably would have died or bad things would have happened so while I get 9a's distrust I think it could have really hurt them and she doesn't want to hurt them

[00:59:34] she cares very much about you know about all of them. I can appreciate 9a's as you say distrust but you need to get the fuck on board like you you need hey one of these five is the dragon there is shit that comes along with being

[01:00:00] the dragon reborn and unfortunately one of you guys has to fucking sacrifice for it and maybe all of you guys have to sacrifice for it. Why should she believe that? Why should she believe it? Yeah, I don't know that she but the only

[01:00:15] reason she has to believe that one of them is the dragon is because Marine said so and so I think she's always struggled with why are you telling me I mean there's no reason that this that I should believe

[01:00:26] you and I think that's a big part of why she doesn't trust them and then she gets thrown in with the Leandron comments and that makes her distrust everybody. I don't know I'm torn because I'm with you Greg I mean and this is true for the

[01:00:40] books too when you read it you're like 9e why don't you just get on board and it's just it's it's a hard thing. She just she's so distrusting because she just doesn't believe the reasons that they're telling them these things.

[01:00:53] So that's fair and I can see that point. I not not that I think she shouldn't get on board. It would be a lot easier if she did it would just like hey you know that could have killed him but she didn't see this shit

[01:01:08] being sucked out of Matt's mouth and right you know sucked up to Marine's face where it was I'm assuming it was trying to get in and she's like nope nope these lips are sealed you need to stay the hell out and get back in your dagger and

[01:01:23] so she didn't see that and she okay now that's that is a good point and I can see that that she still only has the word of it I must say the word of someone who quote unquote cannot lie. Although it was funny that the Marine you

[01:01:49] said I'm gonna speak frankly with you here are two lines that are completely frank and then well what about what happens to the people who aren't the dragon. We cannot say for certain at this particular point okay we're okay now we're back to the

[01:02:05] very probably going to die a horrible agonizing death that's what she didn't say well basically your F in the A yeah probably so I thought that was yeah I thought it was kind of funny but no that's a good point Eric I definitely I will take that on

[01:02:26] board and maybe when she sees something crazy happen like maybe when she sees something I mean like I'm a very face value kind of person right so if someone tells me hey one you guys are dragging poor what oh all these trawlex that are coming

[01:02:45] to kill like they are coming after you okay what I mean okay I'll run with you and hopefully my family doesn't die like it oh they're still following us there's this fate across the river you know what I'm tending to start to believe you maybe

[01:03:02] and then then you know don't go into Chicago look off because we're all going to die and then this cloud starts coming up and melting horses okay you know what hey everything you told me so far is pretty pretty accurate however 98 wasn't

[01:03:17] there for a majority of that and so I think that Rand as he said Rand is is going to be more trusting and that makes more sense because he's seen more than 98 has and 98 was just been locked in a room I mean locked quote

[01:03:35] unquote in a room and been held away from friends and whatnot even though where I knew that Matt and Rand were there so all right that's understand alright so my number one and the even more impact of this is is more significant now that I have

[01:04:06] we've talked about it is more is exile so what it seems like is that she was kicked out of the Acer die she wasn't still she was just but hey you are excited from the tower it sounds like they asked us from the tower sounds

[01:04:25] like hey you no longer have the rights to wear the ring or be a part of the blues or do whatever you are kicked to the curb they take her ring okay but that's what I mean is like but like that's not quite is it hey you're

[01:04:42] just not allowed in the tower anymore that's how I took it but but all of the but all the Acer die turned their backs on her yeah and basically it seemed like she was being effectively evicted from her acid I had I don't think so

[01:04:57] I think she was just banished from the tower but she's still able to go out and do I said I should she doesn't get an allowance anymore I don't know yeah I thought the whole turning of the back things I couldn't figure out what that was about either

[01:05:12] Greg I don't know how it felt like when children I thought it was going to be it was more consequential I don't know though I didn't take it to heart only because I knew it was kind of a setup and it was specifically said

[01:05:28] until mother calls her home which she can do whenever is convenient for them okay all right so I didn't it didn't upset me it didn't have I guess it didn't have the gravity that maybe it should have because I felt like it was a setup

[01:05:45] it has more gravity now because that means that she can never go back and visit swan until she the ban has lifted now because swan isn't complete control of her lifting it but she can't she that's like that'd be like excuse me do we get

[01:06:07] political that'd be like the president saying oh hey you are you are publicly banished for you know whatever and that oh well because I'm personally involved with you I'm gonna make up some reason that we have to call you back or whatever like I don't I get it

[01:06:26] that nobody knows that they're involved but right like I think that I think that swans hands are tied because she has losing grip on power and she she is tied by the politics of the white tower and if at any given point like she can't

[01:06:43] be the one to recommend that we bring way rain back like maybe I mean don't be wrong if she goes and defeats the dark one with a dragon up the other world then yes you might be more popular you know what okay we'll

[01:06:57] let you back in you on a you know on a probational basis since you know ridded the the world of all you'll but you know yeah so to me it was to me it seemed like hey everybody is you you are booted the fuck out now maybe that's

[01:07:15] not the case maybe she can give still do as Wendy so eloquently put it I said I shit yeah I definitely I felt that that had more gravity especially the acting on the the silent acting on on Rosamund Pikes part like I was so good

[01:07:37] yeah it was well done I guess I just it seemed to be a ruse you know like but I mean the fact that it didn't it didn't like upset me the fact that the like when when the rain was like oh hey

[01:07:53] it's gonna have to be exile tomorrow because you know Megan yeah me and the thing and she's like what what what what I thought we had more time I know that scene was more you know if it elicited more emotion I think okay

[01:08:10] between the two of them yeah so so that was that was my my whole number one was like hey you I've I've spent the last you know several decades helping and now I'm just being kicked the fuck out now maybe maybe that means something

[01:08:28] different than you know maybe that's hey you just go sit on a farm and you know herd sheep for you know a couple decades till we call you back or maybe it's something else yeah that was that was my number one any notes

[01:08:45] I have some notes I thought that Megan said two things that I thought she wouldn't have said if it didn't mean something she said that chips have been disappearing off the west coast okay and she said that I eels have been spotted the this

[01:09:03] side of the spine which I thought they that has to come into play because why would she have said those things that that's fair so I'm just gonna so one of our listeners comments on it but there's part of the x-ray features

[01:09:24] that you can take a look at is like an online is like an interactive map of like where people have been and what the map looks like and where the spine of the world is and and you know on the other side of the spot of the

[01:09:34] world is like a mountain range is the IEL waste and so I thought it was it was if you guys want to go check that out that's that's pretty pretty cool to take a look at yeah I definitely have to and when you check it out you'll see

[01:09:50] how long it was to go from tear to tar-vallon on a boat with a bamboo pole which I thought that was quite the trek that that swan made by yourself yes on or on maybe or on a river or maybe walking I think it was a river the

[01:10:07] whole way but it's a long river I have a note about Leandron she has been spying on moraine's activities with the five potential dragons and she kind of tries to come in black male moraine and moraine doesn't miss a beat and she tells her that she

[01:10:33] knows about a man that Leandron is involved in who at the North Harbor and that she's going to tell the red sisters about him if Leandron betrays marine secrets and she just keeps walking like she doesn't even she just leaves

[01:10:50] her in the dust and I thought that was really interesting just because she seemed to give Leandron her comeuppance but also because before this everybody had said that Leandron hates men so obviously Leandron has a few secrets as well and I thought that was interesting

[01:11:11] I I felt that that was like that it was as you said it's the moraine doesn't miss a beat and she's just like okay well I've had this chip in my back pocket so back the fuck off or you're after the a it was like she was

[01:11:27] swatting a fly yeah it was not even not even a thought okay well I burned that chip but now Leandron knows that I know that she could be right and it's a big enough deal to shut her up like I don't know who it is but it's a

[01:11:44] big enough deal to shut her up the look on Kate whatever her name is face was just like yeah shut her up yeah her like yeah I'll trim bold and she's like well uh and then Miranda just walks away she's like all right and

[01:12:00] that's that's done and then the only other one I have is the Amalyn the Amalyn seat and Amarlyn Amarlyn seat it was beautiful the colors the costumes the costumes are just amazing especially Swan's costumes were incredible every fabric is beautiful and very textured

[01:12:29] like you want to reach out and touch that fabric everything is beautiful but also it's it's like nothing you've ever seen before so very otherworldly at the same time I just love the detail and I'd love to see a whole long documentary on how they do their

[01:12:48] costumes I think it's amazing I feel like some of the back behind the scenes actually have that and I don't know if I if they we mentioned on the podcast or or if it was something that I read but like apparently it's like oh

[01:13:04] like the Red Sisters their outfit is you know it looks like a red tunic but apparently they were like layered together and it's like this layer and this layer and this layer it was basically painstakingly done and apparently I think one of the behind

[01:13:21] the scenes goes into it pretty deep it does and they have the whole behind the scenes with the costume designers they have like the lead in her second in it and they have a whole map with all the different fabrics from all the different places

[01:13:34] and you talked about the Red Sisters but every Red Sister has a different costume because whatever whatever she's wearing ties to her homeland right so wherever whatever country she's from that's the style of dress because you know you see some with the headdresses on and some

[01:13:49] with you know just all different kinds of outfits even though they're all red they're all still there and I just you know it to me that's speaks like Lord of the Rings that's how they approach that with their whole storytelling and it just feels the same

[01:14:03] kind of way to me it's very impressive and in the books they call the Amarlin's seat what she wears on her neck there a stole it's a seven colored stole and I don't think I really knew what a stole was I'm still not

[01:14:16] sure I know what a stole is but I certainly never pictured it like they rendered it for the show I just thought it was really beautiful and like you say otherworldly never seen anything like it before right super cool as well

[01:14:27] yeah I think they're spending a lot of time on all of the details which I love and I appreciate yeah I never I never actually I didn't I think I was just paying attention to like the acting and whatnot I look

[01:14:42] at the I'll you have to go take a look at the stole Eric notes yeah well you hit on one Kate Fleetwood you talked about her reaction to Moran but and she's not gotten a shout out on any of these podcasts

[01:14:55] and I just want to give her a shout out because I think Kate Fleetwood is Leandron is amazing I like her character so much more than the books character her facial expressions the braids in her hair the way she can say the word

[01:15:08] per semen and make me feel the creeps I mean it's just she's been fantastic through this whole thing and I would have never guessed that Leandron would be a character I would be this interested in but I really am so you know just to shout out to that

[01:15:22] actress because it's not enough to ever make the one two or three but man she's really good in every scene she's in well she I mean the honestly she is my Joffrey that you know like he was so good at being such a shithead

[01:15:42] and and she is like I just I I am loving hating her and seeing her get her cup of influence and that just it just as you said Kate Fleetwood that just it just gives credit to not only the her acting but the writing to it as well

[01:16:00] but you can't write you can write the words like oh Leandron looks shocked but you can't write the reactions that you get on a someone's face the way her lips move yeah I don't know there's just something about it that just I don't know just

[01:16:19] it just feels wrong and I can't even explain it so you say you you mentioned the braids and I'm sorry to interrupt you mentioned the braids and I didn't think about it until you mentioned it but I forgot that she was a terebinor and that's the way

[01:16:34] that they wore their hair in the books and that they talk about that all the time and that they're they're keeping to the books and to each to each country of origin is man it just makes me appreciate the depth of research

[01:16:51] and the depth of the execution that they're going through absolutely absolutely then my other note is I just the little spot there where swan said you're the most powerful channeler in a thousand years and you can just see a queen swell up with pride

[01:17:06] about yes I'm so cool you know and then it's like no it's 90 and she's like whoa because she didn't know 90 could change I just thought that was a really cool moment it just fit both of their characters so well

[01:17:17] of course 90 just cause it blowing smoke up her ass so you know she's not impressed anyway but this both of their characters just those little reveals for how they see themselves and and how their pride works I just thought it was a real cool touch yeah it was

[01:17:32] that I noticed that as well and it was left she very the queen definitely like puffed up a little bit she's like back's a little bit straighter 90 of my note what what you know that was that was that was really good anything else nope that's it okay so

[01:17:50] just a couple of I say a couple but so what swan's father tells her is you know hey when can I come home and when it's safe in tier for girls like you now that indicates to me that in tier girls who can channel are

[01:18:13] feared or and maybe everyone you know maybe everywhere that but it's it's it felt like tier specifically was was a place that if you could channel you are not respected as as I are it's more feared or persecuted or or whatever is it

[01:18:34] moraine's job to to warn against literally every danger don't the rest of the blues have like they have like the network they're doing anything or they it's oh moraine didn't say anything rain saw you for like what two days I mean

[01:18:50] where's the rest of the information get why is it moraine's fault lander and why Kate Fleetwood why are you turning this thing to a trial on moraine what the fuck what did they look like so that was so there I thought there were three

[01:19:03] potholes right and I we mentioned the one the thousand mile boat trip with the bamboo pole you know you mentioned that when where the moraine's responsible for all the intel coming to the white tower and then the last one that I that I

[01:19:14] know is that I didn't put as a note but you know when they shoot all the horses away without telling anybody it's like I'm figuring you probably got something in your saddlebags that you wanted to take with you where you're going what's what's my doing back

[01:19:26] yeah what's Matt doing like he didn't go and all the horses are gone easy just gonna wander around it's just the horses just you know they just disperse I just thought that was a weird way that's actually a really good point

[01:19:36] you probably want your pack everybody got their packs just add a line right everybody got their packs okay cool some dried meat and cheese something yeah look at this here's my lander note Landron is a straight up power hungry bitch swan and her fish references

[01:19:58] her dad said clever as a pike and then she refers to more rain as a little puffer fish waiting for her spikes to retract um swan had a dream about the dark one at like the eye of the world like that's

[01:20:14] that's pretty significant yeah like you're not going to tell anybody about this except for more rain like that's it like there's not like a department of foretelling or whatever that you might want to mention this to we talked about like where he says dreams

[01:20:29] have power they meet they mean stuff I can tell so afraid of appearing weak that it'll be used against her you know I mean I think that's what happens in real life like okay yeah that's that's that's like that's fair it's funny but

[01:20:48] I've noticed that's fair as my crutch word and so now I've like I've got it in my head but yeah no okay that's that's a good point I'm with you Greg though it seems like an awful lot I mean you know we saw into the ways

[01:21:02] and what do you call it you're going into hell or damn nation I can't remember what Wendy called it but something like that and it just seems like you know I had a dream so now they're all jumping into this going through hell to get there

[01:21:14] just okay well yes the dreams matter I guess that it seemed like a little bit of a leap did you guys notice more rain's earring and how it covers the entire outside of her ear yeah at the gold it yeah the goal it's not even like an earring

[01:21:29] it just like it looks like gold was melted to the outside of her ear it just I was like that had to be painful or it's really well fitted because that it's been I went back and took a look and it's been there since the beginning

[01:21:46] the fact that you talked about a little bit but the fact that more rain like swan gives on the oath Rod she gives specific words and she says like until ordered home by the emerald and seat and where rain changes the words to

[01:22:00] you know till ordered back by swan Sanjay you know daughter of the river and Sam there just her father used yeah yeah the you guys notice okay maybe you wouldn't have because Eric did you notice the symbol that the power was forming behind where

[01:22:25] rain which he was opening the ways the trefoil leaf yeah yeah so that's that is definitely a book readers right yeah exactly that is definitely a book reader thing we didn't give you your garden gate but at least it's a three

[01:22:40] I was like well so I didn't think it looked like the leaf the Eva Sidora and forgive me if you guys have your idea what I'm talking about but there's there's a symbol at the beginning of every chapter so Wendy I'll just explain

[01:22:53] to you there's a symbol at the beginning of every chapter and each one will kind of tell you give you an idea of what it is like oh hey this is this was gonna have trawlex because it's got like a skull and like some symbols or whatever on

[01:23:05] them or this one is nice or some yeah exactly so it but there's one that is almost exactly the symbol but the power formed marine the there's like three triangles coming out and I'll see if

[01:23:25] I can find a picture of it so I can show you next time but it was I was like oh man that is that is I had to pause it and back it up like oh yeah that's that that's definitely a thing

[01:23:37] and you don't think the trefoil leaf because that's what I always thought it was it's like the I'll see if I can find it and I'll I'll show you what I'm talking about yeah I mean I know the shape and the chapter I thought that

[01:23:47] was the same thing though maybe not I don't know okay yeah we'll take a look I'm I've noticed that the wheel weaves and as the wheel wills is basically another way thing that way of saying God works

[01:24:00] in mysterious ways yeah and I was just like man that's that's a crazy cop out also if Matt is the dragon reborn while the world is pretty much F in the a because he's there anymore and he's not going to go defeat the dark one. I'm

[01:24:18] assuming that we have eliminated Matt as a dragon reborn because because he's not going along and otherwise the dark one would kill everybody. So that's all of my notes any save drowns or alibis No, alright, we'll take a break. There's more to come stay with us.

[01:24:58] Okay, we're back moving on into news about the wheel of time so Rosamund Pike actually did a really kind of a lengthy interview with TV line about this episode and some of their some of the more significant scenes in it and I'd highly

[01:25:15] recommend it you guys go check that out but so we're not going to read all of it but a couple of interesting questions and answers in here TV line this week's episode came across to me like your biggest one so far but is it safe

[01:25:28] to say there's plenty more we're about to get with more rain before the end of the season one finale. Rosamund so yes, this is the episode where you really see the inner conflict with more with with more rains world and realize she's sacrificing everything for this cause

[01:25:43] with this kind of woman who seemed really cold and in control I think it's probably kind of a cartwheel for people's brains to suddenly see that underneath there are all these other layers and things that play and hopefully people will end up

[01:25:54] with a little bit more respect for on a human level for more rain. TV line asks this episode gets into what the blue eyes and I are supposed to represent and what their tasks to do to find secrets all over the world. How do you think marine

[01:26:11] fits that role and function for this group. Rosamund Pike responds I can't talk too much about season two yet but one of the things I'm really relishing is how much we start to understand about the blue Asia and quite how far reaching their informants are.

[01:26:29] There's a reason that they have this reputation for being the followers of causes and trading in information and being better informed probably than any other Asia. It's basically kind of like my six the world of my six with huge networks of informants and people either through fear

[01:26:50] coercion bribery respect any number of ways people get information I think the blue Asia is the one I would also be in if I were to be an ice die. We have these discussions off set sometimes I won't mention

[01:27:07] names but we definitely have ice die who are like I think my character in another life would have chosen differently but me and more rain are definitely happy to be blue. TV line asked I was excited to see that more rain get

[01:27:21] some romance in this episode really just a life outside of being an ice die. Rosamund Piker responded in the book new spring we see more rain and so on training we see her bond land how those

[01:27:33] two met and there's this line that fans have had a lot of discussions about which is that so on and more rain were pillow friends and what is the meaning of that and there are lots of there are lots of debate about is more

[01:27:45] and bisexual is she lesbian. There's a lot of room for discussion with the way rave who's the show runner has chosen to play it. Obviously the stakes of this forbidden love are massive the duty of the arm and seat is to have no favorites to love

[01:27:59] no one to have no attachments bar the throne. It's more treacherous the risk of getting out the risk of it getting out that almost any secret you can imagine in their world and of course it's exciting for me as an actress

[01:28:10] because drama rides on the stakes being high. I mean no one can ever know ever it's a love that can never really exist because it can never be public. It can exist but obviously it's massively restricted by being hidden.

[01:28:23] It also shows the depth of bond and trust between more in a land that he is allowed to know. Yeah that was after that was actually really really cool point. TV line finally can you tease anything about the final

[01:28:39] two episodes it looks like we're headed for the eye of the world whatever that's going to look like Rosamund Pike responds episode 7 is maybe my favorite we're going to enter at least four worlds you've never seen it yet in the show.

[01:28:53] You can guess what one is by the end of episode 6 but then major parts of Robert's Jordan of major parts of Robert Jordan's imagination whole other climates and worlds we've never seen they advance the story they advance the threat they advance the tension

[01:29:08] and also there are other concepts that open up we suddenly realize that new concepts of time. I would say playing on the idea of the wheel of time I don't know that I read that right. We suddenly realize new concepts of time I would say

[01:29:23] playing on the idea of the wheel of time. I'm not 100% sure what that means but well and so this one intrigued me the most about this whole interview right and so he's just trying to figure out what she means so

[01:29:37] she says three worlds so you got to figure we're going to go to the ways where it's you know slight spoiler for the next episode but just a name the blight and fall dare which is like a major fortress so those should be three of the places

[01:29:50] we go I don't know what the fourth place is so that's right. Yeah maybe the eye and you know the end of book one is weird it's it's it's a weird thing it's hard to understand even if you've read it 15 times

[01:30:05] it's still a hard thing to understand and so maybe maybe you know new concepts of time ties into that the other world. Like maybe they go into like timelines are they going to see like are we got flashbacks flickers I don't know I don't know.

[01:30:20] Yeah, I don't know that's that's super interesting. There was actually I'm not going to we're not going to get into it but there was actually a another interview with for the life of me I cannot say his name but the guy who plays loyal. Hamon or Heyman.

[01:30:39] Yeah, Hamon. His last name. Yeah. Yeah. How about how bad. Anna my son I am sorry for bithering that but it was on Nerdist and I thought it was really it was a really really good interview and you guys can go check that out on Nerdist calm.

[01:30:58] Moving on to listener feedback. Listener responses from the Facebook. Tammy bar wrote into us and said what a great recommendation to review the bonus content from the X-ray feature on Amazon. The short animated origin videos for each episode are awesome and provided some good background information

[01:31:21] especially the episode one about how the world broke. I thought the one for episode two was incredible. Such a great three minute story. Did you guys? So is yet. I have not. But I but I'm going to yeah yeah especially with this and I love maps.

[01:31:39] I'm such a nerd the interactive map. Yeah, I love that and somehow that helps you with like placing where everything is. So she also continues to say did you guys see the interactive map on Amazon for this show? You can click on the places the characters have traveled

[01:31:57] to and learn more about these places cool stuff. I'm loving that. Yeah, that's that's super cool and I'm going to go play around with the map because I haven't actually opened it up yet. But I didn't know about that until I read that and I was

[01:32:12] like oh I got to go check that out now. Yeah, it's pretty neat and to me I think I feel like they wanted to use the map more but maybe it would just seem too game of thronish to do a map you know.

[01:32:23] So they just had to leave it out but I think you guys talked about that when the in your episode two when you guys talk about their opening because maps are a pretty big part of a fantasy world and you don't really see much of a map.

[01:32:35] There is a still in the in the behind the scenes you know on x-ray of loyal with a map talking to Lorraine and land like they're planning out their strategy to go to the eye or something like that. That was obviously cut from the from the final version

[01:32:50] of the episode but it's a really cool picture but you can always see the back of the map. You can't actually see what they're looking at. So but once again they cut loyal scenes. I want all the loyal scenes I want to buy those are excellent.

[01:33:04] I absolutely will enjoy listening to every episode that he has. All right. I'm done. No that's awesome. You have the voice for it. Greg there's a lot about Greg that would fit. Okay this next one customer Shay Weedy or Whitey. I think it's wide wide. Thank you.

[01:33:26] This series is starting to build and I want to see where this goes with Colin. I enjoyed the episode. I thought Marena Swan's relationship was well portrayed and I liked the White Tower entry. Will we get to see what Leandron's pendants was? Colin's favorite scenes involved loyal again.

[01:33:42] The screenshot in your page has a scene not shown in the show. I would like I would like to see it. We both thought Matt's scene at the end was abrupt but it's likely due to the casting change. I would have liked to see more consequences for

[01:33:56] the dagger. It has serious implications in the book that I don't think can be seen with what the show depicts. Can't believe only two more episodes. Yeah I hear you Shay. The dagger definitely had a future life in the books and I'm curious if we're going to get

[01:34:14] that or if they're going to cut it just to kind of make for fewer storylines and whatnot. And yes, I will take all of the loyal. One comment on the dagger. I don't know if you guys talked about it but Payton Fane was in Tar Valon.

[01:34:34] He was in two scenes when Matt and Rand got there in episode five. I guess that was what oh yeah he's in two scenes there so he's like in the background hanging out hiding a little bit. So just what just throwing that out there. I gotta go.

[01:34:51] I gotta go look at the man I gotta watch again. Yeah when they're walking through the streets just look in the look in the windows and cubby holes and you'll see him son of a bitch. Sorry Holly Finch says my husband and I are

[01:35:07] enjoying it but struggling to remember specifically what happened in the books so can't tell how well it's being adapted. Honestly Holly I don't care as long as I'm intrigued by it I'm good to go. I'm good. I have read too many fantasy series where

[01:35:20] the main character is a lad from the backwater town slash farm slash is an orphan. Who's destined for greatness. Some monster slash powerful villain comes and kills his father slash uncle who's raising him slash guy he thinks is his father slash

[01:35:33] half the village it's and it's hunt for that lad forcing him to flee everything he knows in order to protect them multiple forces trying to manipulate slash kill him as he's the most powerful magic user slash warrior slash dragon writer and expected to save the world

[01:35:46] etc etc by defeating the big bad tyrant who's ruling the world. Yeah that's basically every fantasy series ever but you know like I'm digging this one hopefully you are too. And we had a couple comments about last episode episode five which was blood calls blood.

[01:36:06] Tammy Barr also wrote us about that episode and she wrote so no one else mentioned it but did anyone get Wolf of Wall Street vibes on the final funeral scene. It was a touching scene and yes I teared up but not before I was called back to

[01:36:23] the Matthew McConaughey scene. Oh yeah the chest beating the I haven't seen Wolf of Wall Street so one it is it is very well done and very we'll say irreverential. Why like that usually. Yeah it is it is very much like that is

[01:36:45] a that is a very memorable scene but yeah definitely definitely entertaining. Yeah I'll have to I have to put that on my list. Things to do when I have some downtime. 15 minutes watch the backstory. And then one last one a complaint that land

[01:37:07] never shows that much emotion even when spoiler happens in the book he is still as F. Yeah I get what you're saying this is from William Steiner and I would offer that Wendy's receptiveness to that scene is why they did it and so I get what you're saying

[01:37:29] but without getting into his headcanon and his thoughts you got to be able to make him relatable and I thought Wendy's reaction to his portrayal of grief at that episode was exactly why they wrote it that way. I think he might be my favorite character.

[01:37:43] I have to admit William like I definitely I definitely that took me out of it a little bit especially the first time I watched it out so I you know land is a a well developed. I say well developed a well I say well developed

[01:38:01] but what I mean is he has a very specific countenance and it is mostly like it's like oh his face was etched from stone and he didn't move at all like you know a lifted eyebrow was the same as saying what are you talking about.

[01:38:19] So I can I can appreciate where you're coming from but I like I did enjoy like Wendy was talking especially as we as we talk about it. I tend to appreciate those those kind of emotional beats even if they are in fact different from the book

[01:38:38] thus ends the sixth episode on the Wheel of Time as we haven't mentioned it before but if you haven't left a rating or review on whatever your chosen podcast player please do so. Let us know how we're doing just like the show

[01:38:53] whether you you like it hate it whatever like any feedback is good feedback that we can take those any notes that you have on board or you could just be like hey you guys do a great and we'd be like all right cool that's what we'll continue

[01:39:05] to do we will continue our greatness. But if you'd like to write in or record a message and send it in you can email it to talk at podcasticad.com check out our Facebook page at facebook.com backslash podcastica. We're also on Twitter at podcastica on other

[01:39:26] podcast in the podcastical world strange ad Dexter Lock and Key and they Dexter is killing it. It really is. It's awesome. I have I have one to talk about House House podcastica is going to start podcasting this week on the new Showtime series called Yellow Jackets.

[01:39:51] I don't know if you guys have watched this but if you haven't you need to it's really exciting and great. I've heard it's like Lord of the Flies meets lost. Is that sounds awesome. I mean it's even better than that like it's really good.

[01:40:07] I heard a bunch of people talking about it and so me and my husband watched it on Tuesday. If he hadn't been around I would have been just the whole thing on Tuesday but he's like he's not a banger so he's like one episode.

[01:40:19] So then I made him watch it like Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and then we watched the last one today and we're completely caught up. It's great. It's really good different. Yeah, a reverend you want to talk about a reverend.

[01:40:34] Oh it's a rare reverend that's a pretty much up my up my alley. It's great. I highly recommend. So House Podcastica will be covering that will probably do an episode on the first five episodes sometime. It'll be published sometime this week and then we're

[01:40:53] going to do it week to week for the next five episodes. Oh nice. Yeah. Who's who's covering that? So I don't think that's been fully decided. I think it might be kind of a rotating set of hosts but me, Penny Lennox and Daphne are going to do

[01:41:08] the first one. Oh nice. Yeah. Yeah, I will have to just sucks because I can't listen until I watch the first five episodes now. Yeah, that's a lot of that's a lot of time and you don't want to either. It's a yeah. Okay. Yeah, I'll have to.

[01:41:22] I'll definitely have to check that out. Yeah. And then I think walking dead cast is wrapped up for a bit on a bit of a hiatus. Yep. Given they did like what like four straight months of weekly podcast on walking dead and fear the walking

[01:41:38] dead and world beyond. Yep. World beyond just ended the entire series and I thought it was great. Now I thought it was really good. Fear the walking dead is had their mid season finale. We won't talk about that and I actually don't know.

[01:41:56] I haven't watched fear at all this season. So I don't think spoiler alert Kim Dickens is returning to the series. I love Kim Dickens. I've been a fan of her for a long time like since Deadwood. You know, so I don't know that might make me watch it

[01:42:14] maybe. Yeah, I just like the whole Madison issue back. Now we were all saying like they they've got to have some something they're blackmailing her for like hashtag free Kim Dickens. I think I think I think that's it right. Yeah, walking key actually closing out walking key like

[01:42:38] it breaching the end of season two on strange indeed and yeah, it is. It is so good. Yeah, I'm enjoying that. I started watching that because of strange indeed. So yeah, it's super good. But next time on this podcast, we'll a time season

[01:42:55] one episode seven the dark along the ways. All right. That's our show. Thanks for listening. Thank you. Let the dragon ride again on the winds of time. Yes.