8: "The Dark Along the Ways" (The Wheel of Time S1E7)

[00:00:00] 《Skidnails》 《Skidnails》 《Skidnails》 《Skidnails》 Hey everybody, welcome to our podcast. I'm Greg. And I'm Wendy. And I'm Ben. And this is House Podcastica, The Wheel of Time edition. This week we're covering The Wheel of Time, Season 1, Episode 7, The Dark Along the Ways.

[00:01:31] So this episode, I mean, we talked about our Moirene or Resonant Pike talked about a lot of new locales and whatnot in this last week's interview. And this, I mean, I think a lot of this paid off. So just, well, I guess we'll say a short summary.

[00:01:51] Well, I think she also said in that news article too, when I listen back, I think she also said number Episode 7 was her favorite. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And so we had Dragon Mount and the fight scene at the beginning. And then we had In the Ways.

[00:02:10] And then we had Faldara. And then we saw the Blight. So I think those are the four things she was talking about. And then we got some pretty big reveals this week, which did we? Yeah. I mean, yes, yes, we did. We could get a couple.

[00:02:30] And if you had subtitles on, you got some even bigger ones if you know what characters are called. But so in general, how'd you feel, Wendy? I liked it. I thought there were a few weaknesses to the episode, but overall I thought I liked so much of it.

[00:02:56] The character development is amazing. Just in seven episodes, I'm super attached to some of these characters. And some you're less so. I think that's just kind of the least for me. So I kind of feel the same way.

[00:03:10] There were a lot of things that were visually stunning and very compelling. But there were definitely some parts of it that I was kind of like, OK, all right, that's a choice you're making. All right, we got it. Ben?

[00:03:28] See, that's it's weird because I feel differently like I enjoyed it the first time around. And I think I enjoyed it even more the second. And there were one or two things that I noticed the second time around that I didn't notice the first time.

[00:03:46] That added to some things that I did notice the first time around. And I agree with what Wendy said as well with the character development.

[00:03:54] You know, we're a series that's seven episodes out of eight right now and they're still giving us new character development while continuing until the story.

[00:04:03] You know, up until this point, a lot of series would have spent the first half of the season developing the characters and then telling the story in the second half.

[00:04:10] But this series is doing a great job of continuing to tell the story and push the story forward, but still continuing to give us new character development and character reveals. And we got that even more this week. I think I think we'll get.

[00:04:26] Well, I mean, I think we'll get deeper into that. And we can kind of talk point counterpoint during this. But yeah, I like them. Don't get me wrong.

[00:04:37] Like I enjoy it and it just there were just a couple of times that and maybe it's just because I am a short attention span male. But sometimes I just like it's not that they're talking. They're just talking about things that are.

[00:04:58] I don't know feelings like that kind of sounds so juvenile and so idiotic. But sometimes I get the feeling in this series that I want. I wanted to move along a little faster. Maybe maybe that's what maybe that's that feeling.

[00:05:14] I mean, just there were just a couple of scenes like I said, we'll at least cover in notes that.

[00:05:21] But the problem being not not really a problem, but the but a lot of those scenes are ended up being tied into concepts that I think are really, really cool and are.

[00:05:32] And so I kind of feel like I need to kind of forgive a little bit in order to get the bigger picture. It has a purpose. You just don't know what it is yet. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I get it. All right.

[00:05:46] So moving into our we call on top three highlights, but you know, our three points for the Wheel of Time season one episode seven, the Dirk along the ways before we do that. Can I just make two quick notes from last week's episode?

[00:05:59] Oh yeah, was not last week. Last week's podcast episode rather not the show episodes since I wasn't here. Sure. The first note is I just want to extend a special thanks to Eric. He was an awesome guest.

[00:06:10] So I want to thank him for filling in for me since I wasn't there. Oh yeah, he I we it was a it was a really good time talking with him and he had some definitive insight that. Yeah, I definitely he's a super fan no doubt.

[00:06:23] Oh, you could tell by listening. Even though I wasn't on last week, I still listened and it's he was a great fill in and he definitely had a lot of great points to make. So I wanted to thank him for for coming on.

[00:06:36] And my second point is Wendy, not a fan of Tara Masu. I'm questioning my. Now I'm questioning my friendship with you real and you know what I saw today that made me think of you Ben. What's that? It was many Reese's peanut butter cups filled with peanut brittle.

[00:06:54] I actually bought it for my son-in-law because he loves everything Reese's and he's one of those weird deviants who thinks you should put things in Reese's so. There's nothing wrong with putting things in Reese's, but that's a different topic for another day.

[00:07:10] Yeah, but not a fan of Tara Masu. I'm questioning now. Now coffee should stay in the cup. We can agree to disagree. It absolutely belongs in either. Well, I guess I guess drinks are in a cup anyway. This is it was just funny.

[00:07:30] I was in my car listening to the episode and when Wendy said, I'm not a fan. I literally audibly screamed in my car. What? Gross. It's not gross. It's just. Anyway, send us feedback. Let us know what you think of Tara Masu. Yeah, Tara Masu.

[00:07:45] Yeah, yeah, team Tara Masu or team crazy. Yeah. All right, that's it though. All right. Thanks. Thanks, Ben. And a problem. All right, Wendy, what is your number three? My number three is something I didn't like. Okay.

[00:08:03] I thought I thought the weakest part of the episode and maybe one of the weakest parts of the show thus far was their representation of the dark or the ways. To me, it clearly appeared that they were on a soundstage. I wish they had somehow filmed it outdoors.

[00:08:25] It really took me out of the story because it looked and sounded like they were on a stage in a theater. The sound of it was really not great. I don't know. And the whole story of the guiding stone being damaged and the Trollic attack, none

[00:08:44] of it seemed to have a purpose. It all felt like a scene that they decided, you know, at the very end of the story that they needed to add in somehow. So they all went for one day and filmed that scene.

[00:08:58] It just felt very disconnected to the rest of the episode and the story. Okay. That is absolutely a fair opinion. And I can understand the concept of like, hey, I feel like I'm just watching people on a soundstage.

[00:09:18] Now I'm just going to give a little bit of feedback to that with regard to the way it's represented in the books. And I think they did it like that and they did it the way they did because in the

[00:09:31] books, the ways is basically completely and utterly enveloped in dark. Basically just like a soundstage. It's almost that like the dark outside of the outside of the radiance of the torches is actually encroaching and is pushing in on them.

[00:09:52] So you're talking like absolute blackness and the light doesn't extend out any further than, you know, a few feet past a flame. So I totally see where you're coming from. And but as a fan of, or as someone who has read the books and saw this realize like

[00:10:18] this is the ways is my number two. And it's a positive. It's my number two as well. But we'll get to that when we get to it. Yeah. But like this just me, my the visualization and the way they brought it to life for

[00:10:36] me was was pretty positive. However, I do think that they could have shown a little bit more of the islands and you know where Loyal talks about it there being fruit trees everywhere. And you know, this is all used to be verdant, whatever.

[00:10:57] Basically all of the things that were walking on looked like stone. It didn't look like, you know, natural outcroppings or anything like that. It looked like just a bunch of I mean, it looked like one of those Indiana Jones don't step on the wrong little stone. Right.

[00:11:13] And so that's where I kind of that's why I kind of understand where you're coming from. Yeah, I get it. It's probably something super hard to bring to screen. Yeah. I mean, and it's it is absolutely like I like that. I totally get where you're coming from.

[00:11:32] I personally liked the way that it was it was represented. Although I think they could have done. It felt like a lot of the cuts did not necessarily show the depth of where they were at.

[00:11:45] It looked like, oh, hey, here's this rock that I'm going to lean up against. And I get what you're saying. And I think there's almost, you know, you said you felt that there was a disconnect. I think that that's a purposeful thing.

[00:12:01] I think there's almost meant to be a disconnect because the way is not supposed to be anything like the rest of the world. So it should be disconnected. It should feel utterly and completely different from everything else that we've seen so far. And also completely and utterly isolated.

[00:12:18] And like, I thought they did a good job of making everything dark. Although some of the like now that you say it that way, like now I'm having a hard time, like not not picturing. Oh, hey, here's a light stage.

[00:12:34] Oh, we'll put lightning across the top so that it, you know, guys, a couple of the scenes where I did like a couple of the scenes where they were walking and you could see the line of torches and then the lightning up above.

[00:12:45] And I thought that was a neat visualization of it. But I do get the idea of feeling like it was done on a soundstage, though, and not in the outside world because there were a number of times

[00:12:56] when I was watching it and when they're running off that when they're running across that very narrow bridge to get to the the last way gate. There's a part of me and maybe it's the production side of me.

[00:13:08] The person like that's a fan of like the way movies and shows are made. But there was a part of me watching that scene was like, man, I hope there's mats underneath there in case they failed or filming.

[00:13:17] So I do get the idea of it feeling kind of like it being on a set rather than outside. Right. All right. Anything anything else, Wendy? No. All right, Ben. So for my number three, I know going back to a point that I made a couple

[00:13:34] episodes ago when we were talking about very early on with the connection between Lan and Nineveh, I distinctly remember saying I certainly remember that I certainly see there being a connection between the two of them, but I don't foresee it being a romantic one.

[00:13:52] I believe I may have been incorrect about that. Maybe. I mean, like we'll see where it goes from here. Yeah, because I mean, still not completely sure it's no, it's definitely. I was absolutely wrong in that sense.

[00:14:06] It is absolutely a romantic connection, which I saw coming even before they spent the night together, like when he was outside of that home or when she was spying in on the outside of the home and he brought her inside to meet everyone

[00:14:20] and the moment the father figure, I know it wasn't his father, the father figure says like, you know, she's very beautiful. And he's like, I haven't noticed like very sarcastically. Or I've noted. I have noticed. However, he said I had. Yeah, I had a.

[00:14:40] Yeah, so it was the sarcastic sarcastic comment. Even right then in there, I was like, OK, I'm probably pretty sure I was 100 percent wrong in knowing. But this is what I meant to this scene in particular is exactly what I meant

[00:14:55] how this show continues to give us more and more character development even progressing through the story because we've we found out so much about Maureen about these these these other five characters. And we knew a good amount about land up until this point that if we

[00:15:14] didn't learn anything else about him between now and the end of the season, we would have been OK with it. But now there are still continuous continuing to give us even more that I am so intrigued by his character now just by finding out that he

[00:15:28] is a king without a kingdom. I agree. The I think that it's funny because he's kind of a fan favorite. And that's before you realize he has a tragic backstory. Yeah, you know the standard. Oh, there's a tragic backstory. The wonderful fighter and all that.

[00:15:49] But the entire family been killed by people. And and I say I say that. Oh, the typical tragic backstory. But like this is from 30 years ago and this may have been one of the more one of the things that actually started the whole concept of tragic back story.

[00:16:09] So I mean, we're seeing it now, but I'm not saying that by any means is it the first time it's ever been done. But this is a story that has been around for a long time and kind

[00:16:20] of like where we look at things where we're less impressed with things because when with the source material, because we've seen it done over and over and over again. But you watch you realize it was the one of the primary times that

[00:16:34] it's been done or that one of the first times they've done. For example, you know, this is a very female power driven show. And nowadays that's significantly less prevalent than it was to then it was 30 years ago when this this story originally was was published.

[00:16:53] So I think, yeah, land the whole land in Nanyave romance. I think that, you know, it's I think you could it was telegraphed a little bit. I was definitely surprised by it. But one of the things that Eric mentioned last week in regard to

[00:17:13] feedback from I don't remember whom it was. But it was like a land with Stoke in the book. And Eric said, I think that they wrote it differently. And this specifically in order to elicit the reactions from and for you

[00:17:32] to be able to emotionally connect with with a character. And this is just a continuation of that. Yeah. And I agree with what Eric said about that last week too because of the fact that he was absolutely right if you take a character,

[00:17:45] you make him a badass fighter like land exactly is. But you show no emotion from him and you portray him as completely stoic. You kind of lose interest. Right. I don't think we I think we would have lost interest in land by episode three or four.

[00:17:59] Yeah, he would have just been a background character. And he's quiet and subtle. But but yet he has such a big impact. Right. The more you you learn about him. I mean, we still get that stoicness plenty enough from him to

[00:18:19] to portray that aspect of his character from what he was for how he is portrayed in the books. But getting these emotional breakouts like the pounding of the chest, you know, from the funeral scene and now this

[00:18:32] whole scene with the family seeing him as a very sweet and, you know, kind and gentle person, which is such a dynamic from what we know him already as this incredibly skilled fighter and then seeing him with a romantic side or a passionate side with Nine Ave.

[00:18:52] You know, that that same night getting all these elements of this character. I don't think takes away from the stoicness of his character. I think it just adds more layers to the onion that is land that

[00:19:04] I'd be bored of his character already if he was portrayed the way he is in the books. I can see that. You know, I'm appreciating all of this additional content that we're getting from his character because it makes me more and more intrigued from him.

[00:19:19] And Daniel Henney is just doing so well. Like, I think you you his facial expressions, the tone of his voice like I take a lot from intonation and it is he does so well and there's so much acting in this in this series that

[00:19:41] we've seen that is less speaking and more with the face and the expression. And yeah, I think you're right. I think he's doing fantastic. And there's so much that he can portray in the character in action that doesn't have to be done in words or in emotional scenes.

[00:20:01] I mean, I'm sure we'll dive into it a little bit more in our number two is when we talk more about the way. But, you know, in the very quickly in the scene where they notice the guy, you know, where parents as there's something up

[00:20:13] ahead land without hesitation is the first one that approaches. So he is still absolutely that guardian of Maureen and everyone else in that group. So just in action, he continues to be that person that we've always known. But now we're getting more.

[00:20:32] And that's what I appreciated from this episode. Yeah, absolutely. That was it. That was my that was my number three. All right. I am going to zero lines. Three appearances. And yet I still want to talk about Padden fame. I had a note on him.

[00:20:55] Well, I have a note on him, too. We only see him once as a flash of lightning in the ways. Yes, we do. We see his we were watching him leave the ways by himself. And we see him pass Perrin and Nanyave in Faldara.

[00:21:15] And so that makes me go, what the fuck is this guy? What the fuck is he doing? He's got me. He's got to be like, I mean, he was he was watching them leave as the Treliks were going to attack.

[00:21:31] Machin Shin had wanted nothing to do with him. He exited the ways without the power. I'm assuming. How could he do that? Is he is he a male sdi? Is he right a channeler? And then, you know, what is it?

[00:21:51] The greatest trick the Kaiser shows they ever pull or the devil every pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. And Nanyave is like, oh, Padden fame's dead. He's he gone. Why was she so sure of that? Because we didn't see that.

[00:22:06] So it seemed odd that she would say that. I think she just assumed by the carnage that was in that in. Right. She didn't see any survivors or I mean, don't get me wrong. She was pulled away in the middle of the attack.

[00:22:20] So she wouldn't necessarily have like visited and seen the destruction and the number of people that had died. But yeah, I was wondering if if there was a reason like she knew he was there or something. Also, I feel like Nanyave and Lord Eglmar have something in common.

[00:22:41] Like, you know, don't need to ask questions if you already have all the answers. Well, I think we discussed we discussed this a couple episodes earlier on. I think this is back around either episode one or two about the possibly possibility

[00:22:53] of Padden fame being a dark fiend or dark friend. Right. Because, you know, he we had initially said that he was the reason that the Trollex ended up coming to two rivers. And now I think this pretty much confirms it because he's in the in the way.

[00:23:09] Trollex are in the way. So however the Trollex got in the way and or are able to travel the way. I'm pretty sure Padden fame has the same ability. I like it makes me think that he's the one who led them there.

[00:23:25] And as you, as you said, like he brought them to the two rivers. And but what is he that makes him able to not only traverse the ways but to to exit and enter with the with the one power? And that's that's where I go. What? Yeah.

[00:23:50] And I think I think I remember seeing something. I'm trying to find it now when I was doing my research and I was looking in the in the wiki. I think the actor that portrays him. Yeah, Rafe Jedkins is the director. I was like, whoa, is the writer?

[00:24:08] Not that not that is the show. Rafe Jedkins has stated that the character will be made more mysterious in the television series than he is in the books. So I think I think what we're seeing from Padden fame,

[00:24:22] I think might be a complete mystery to even book readers too. Which I kind of like. Yeah, I mean, I could I like not knowing exactly what's going to happen and it excites me and I mean, he's obviously a badass. He seemed like he's a bad, bad ass.

[00:24:40] But he's definitely mean I love. I love his air of nonchalance. Everything is all right. Well, let's just go ahead and move on and we'll go get these motherfuckers murdered. And that was part of it too that like I so upon the second viewing

[00:25:01] of the episode, one of the things I noticed was him in the way. I did not notice that the first time watching when that flash lightning goes off and you see him standing in the shadows.

[00:25:12] The second time I watched it, I was like, oh, didn't notice that got to make a note of it. This the other thing I kind of picked up on this second time around too is when Perrin sees him in the town for Padden fame

[00:25:25] to blatantly walk past those that group of people knowing they know who he is. He's taunting them. He's absolutely taunting them. That's intentional. Yeah. Like he would be an Eric. I did not go back and watch Tarvalon. No, but that blew my mind when Eric brought that.

[00:25:46] Yeah, I need to go take a look at he was like, yeah, you back in the look in the windows. And I'm like, what? I gotta go take a look at it again. Yeah, because also while I was on the wiki page, it says his appearances are

[00:25:56] Episode one, Episode seven and Episode five. And I'm like, what? I think Eric was right. I gotta go back and take a look. Yeah, that's he was my number three. Wendy, you said you had a note on him.

[00:26:08] That was just my note was like, what's he doing there? What's happening? I don't know what's going on. And he's got that swagger that is just unmistakable. Yeah. Again, three appearances, zero lines, but maybe 30 seconds of screen time. And I still am like, what's this guy doing?

[00:26:31] What's going on? Yeah. And like I said, when he walks past them and Perrin notices that he's taunting. Yeah. He knows what he's doing. I almost thought Nineve knew something like she was hiding something. Yeah.

[00:26:47] Well, or that she, you know, maybe enlisted him to help her or something. I don't know. That's what I thought because it was strange to me that she automatically like discounted it. Oh, she's an imposter. Yep. No, I was, I was hooking wires together.

[00:27:06] I don't know what you're talking about. I mean, he's really just there to collect more on his debt from Matt, but Matt's not there. So now, you know, he's kind of, yeah, that's all it is. All right. Yeah, that's that's all I had for number, for number three.

[00:27:23] Wendy. My, my number two is just a continuation of the lawn adoration. I thought the conversation between lawn and Moraine was really great. Moraine seemed to be pushing him away. I think she really believed that she was on a suicide mission and she couldn't bear

[00:27:47] to take others with her. Just to be clear, which, which conversation? The one. Yeah. When right before he goes and sees his family. Okay. All right. I was just going to have a conversation that I think of. What if Matt's the one? He's not the one.

[00:28:07] But what if he is the one? And I thought that was a good point. But he, she just seemed to be kind of pushing him away. I thought, and like she doesn't want to take others down with her.

[00:28:19] Like when you heard the wind talking to her, the wind was kind of talking about her fears and her fears is that she's going to be responsible for these kids deaths. Yeah, but you'll, you'll murder them and call it heroic. Yeah.

[00:28:37] And so she also seemed to either push lawn towards Nine Ave. Or gave her permit, gave him permission. Right. Or approval. The wisdom. And then I thought the scene between Nine Ave. and lawn was incredibly sweet.

[00:28:55] I think I have talked about on the podcast before that this series doesn't have a lot of light moments. There's not a lot, a lot of downtime, you know, sweet happy times. And we had more of that in this episode than typical. And I really liked that.

[00:29:18] I thought, uh, we saw a softer side of Nine Ave. Than we have previously and even of lawn as well. Um, Nine Ave was watching through the window and seeing lawn with his family. And I thought it was a mixture of watching a part of lawn that she

[00:29:37] hasn't seen before. And then also the melancholy for her family that is long gone. When he includes her in with his family, you can see how much that really meant to her and you just really see a softening of her that was really great to see.

[00:29:54] Lawn doesn't make the first move with her. Even though you can see that there's just palpable tension and chemistry between the two of them. I was just like, just do it. And then she finally makes her move and I really loved that it was her that did it.

[00:30:14] And I just thought they were super sweet together and they both have the shared experience of having their family slaughtered. And so I love these two together even more than a Gwaine and Rand or any of the other couplings that we've seen. I like these two together.

[00:30:37] I agree. I especially like these two actors in the way that they play off each other. The characters are, I mean, the sarcasm and the you mentioned light moments and it's funny because we just short conversations between Lynn and Naniyev are, oh, I owe Moraine three silver marks.

[00:31:04] You're scowling. I said, I thought you'd be pouting. And we just, you know, just off the cuff, just, oh, hey, we're just, we're sharing a moment and they do it well. Yeah. I think that the actors are specifically those two are doing,

[00:31:23] their chemistry is really, really almost palpable on screen. And then, yeah, the scene, I wasn't a huge, I don't know. I just, it felt, this is one of my complaints and maybe this is just me, but I thought that it was a little over the top

[00:31:48] like, oh, the Trollic was so big and he had huge fangs. And I mean, I get what I get it. I get what they're trying to portray. I just, it just seemed less realistic to me. But maybe that's just a dynamic between those two that I don't

[00:32:04] understand and it just, it just felt like a little bit overacting. But again, that's just this is one of those, one of those times in here, it's like, it just struck off to me. I totally bought into it. I liked it.

[00:32:20] We seem to be on opposite sides of the spectrum. I know, that's okay. Yeah, which is great. Yeah. Yeah, no, I, but yeah, the two of them together are very, very strong and I think they're one of the highlights of the series. Yeah, I agree. They're doubts.

[00:32:42] All right, that's it. So for my number two, I'm going to add something to it because I literally just had a brand new thought that kind of surprised even myself. But I want to talk obviously about, I want to talk,

[00:32:56] not obviously, but I want to talk about the way since that's, you know, I did mention that as my number two. I'm sorry. The ways? The ways, sorry. Don't apologize, you have to apologize. It's a personal thing. I just, I'm like, okay, it's the ways.

[00:33:12] Because if I say the way, it makes me think of the Mandalorian instead. Makes me think of the fastball song. Yeah, that's what, fastball is where I go. Okay, I think if this is the way from Mandalorian. But yeah, that works too. The ways.

[00:33:26] A couple of quick things and then I'll dive into what I really want to focus on for it because I know it's your number two as well. We get confirmation to something that you guys had mentioned last week in that Maureen was the one behind, Matt staying behind.

[00:33:41] Perrin being able to see something up ahead and the guiding stone being destroyed is more hinting towards his connection to the wolves because he's kind of have that night vision that we see. The one thing that I just realized is that I originally

[00:33:56] had a note in here that said apparently Trollix can whistle, but I'm just now realizing that was most likely Pat and Faye. Yeah, no, that was absolutely Faye. Yes. I feel like he was whistling in the first, in the first episode and I didn't notice the whistle.

[00:34:09] I didn't know what a Gwain, a Gwain woke up to until my second watch. With the subtitles on. That's when I noticed it too. But yeah, I thought about it and I was like, oh, I'm like, yeah, the whistling probably wasn't the Trollix.

[00:34:23] It was probably Pat and Faye. But what I really want to focus on is the black wind and what it said to each of the characters because I have it written out. So first off we had Maureen, you're wrong about everything.

[00:34:39] You'll murder these children and call it heroism. A Gwain's was your nothing and imposter of fraud. Rans was a Gwain will never love you as much as you love her. She left you once and she'll leave you again. Perrin was you wanted Lila dead out of the way.

[00:34:58] That's why you killed her because you loved another woman more than your wife. Lans was you can't protect her, you'll watch or die. And Ninetieths was you'll hear their screams as they die just like you heard your parents and you'll do nothing to save them.

[00:35:15] You lost Matt and now you'll lose the others one by one till you have nothing and no one. You can't protect them. You can't. And then also I'm just going to add on we find out what ran what ran hurt as well.

[00:35:30] Yes, yeah, which I kept that part out because I figured what that will be somebody. Yeah, I got you. But there's a couple of them that I kind of want to focus on. Moren's obviously, you know, you're wrong. It's very clear that the black wind is.

[00:35:45] Is kind of exaggerating a fear that each of these characters has. Sure. You know, a queen feels like she's never going to be anything. She's very doubting of herself. Moren does that have that fear and she admits it later that, you know, she's worried

[00:36:00] she's going to get these people killed. Rand has that fear that, you know, a queen will never love him as much as he loves her. Parents is very interesting to me, especially the because you loved another woman more than you loved your wife and I don't necessarily

[00:36:18] think it's exactly true. I think that's whatever is feeding off of this fear. I think parent has developed feelings for her in everything that they've been through. Parent probably has a guilt about that because his wife is no longer there, but he did love his wife.

[00:36:37] So now they're using that against him to kind of make him think you never loved your wife because you will have always loved her. I want to maybe there is something more there that he really did like. I want to know why Layla and parents relationship with sense.

[00:36:55] And I don't know that we will ever get that because it definitely seemed tense that first episode. And I want to know if it was, if there was like, oh, hey, you know, honey, don't worry about it. She's just a friend and or if it was,

[00:37:13] if there was something else, I mean, there's obvious this was my number one as well. There's obviously something because. Nine years. Yeah, there you go. Nine years also notice something. And Rand comes up with the fact that the day they got together was the day that parent asked

[00:37:42] Layla to marry him. So there's something here, but I felt like just like you said, Ben, these are fears. And I felt like when parents said there's only one woman that I loved and that was my wife, I believed he was telling the truth.

[00:38:01] That doesn't mean that he didn't have feelings for someone else at some point, but I believed he was telling the truth. Well, that's that's what I mean. Yeah, I think I think he absolutely. I think there's there absolutely is a possibility

[00:38:15] he developed feelings for a queen while they were traveling with the Tinkers and such because you know, they did go through a lot together. He probably did build a connection with her. But I also believe at the same time he's feeling guilt about murdering his wife.

[00:38:32] He knows he loved his wife. There's probably a little bit of guilt that he's having feelings for somebody else. It might be second guessing whether or not he it might be causing him to second guess whether or not he truly did love his wife.

[00:38:45] And these are these fears that are being exaggerated inside of him now with this black wind telling him, hey, like you never love because you loved another woman more than you loved your wife. Plus he's turning into a werewolf. So that's probably causing.

[00:39:01] I don't know if he's turning into a werewolf, but the only other one I really took notice to as well more the second viewing than the first because of some that stuff that happens after the scene is lands. Lands is very short and it's simply you can't

[00:39:17] protect her. You'll watch her die upon first viewing. I thought that was more rain right. I thought that was more rain. More rain. How do you pronounce it? Moirain. Moirain, that's it. I know you guys focused on that last episode too.

[00:39:31] And I was trying to get that into my head. It's like it's like Moira, but Moirain. Yeah. But now upon second viewing, that's nine eight. Yeah. Or is one of them more rain and one of them nine eight? I think it's two sentences. It is.

[00:39:51] But yeah, I think it's the same person. I think it's a stronger connection to nine eight. I think upon second viewing, I think that's who the fear is making him. I mean this has been his whole life has been to protect Moirain.

[00:40:07] So that's probably going to be pretty forefront in his mind. But I thought the same thing which who's he, which woman is he talking about there? And I think that I personally, especially given how the rest of the episode came out,

[00:40:25] I think that it could apply to either. But I think that you were supposed to be thinking Moirain when it happened and then I do believe that it would be like, oh, that would make sense that is nine eight. Although.

[00:40:41] Or at the very least upon second viewing now it's making you second guess. Which it is. But that's really what the point I wanted to make for my number one or number two. Okay. Yeah, the mountain shin was it was an interesting an interesting choice.

[00:41:03] And I thought that so just in the book it is like a blackness and it's similar to the smoke monster and should I look off if like it if it touches you it's it would drive you mad.

[00:41:25] I thought you were about to compare it to the smoke monster and lost. But so one of the things that I was looking forward to or hoping that I would be able to see was that when they have the way gate open and they exit

[00:41:45] if you like if nothing's there you can see into the ways like you could when when they first entered but when if the mountain shin is there it's all basically inky blackness. And I was kind of hoping that almost like a pulsing like like venom goo

[00:42:05] pushing out of the the the doorway. But anyway, I thought that the mountain shin was was interesting. Yeah, because in the show it almost makes it seem like it makes it look like a locust swarm. Yeah, like I look like ice shards to me.

[00:42:22] But yeah, so for me the the the whole I mean we've covered most of it and and I'll kind of move on but I it felt like they weren't in the ways that long although they were going to camp there

[00:42:43] and I think that maybe the passage of time for me was a little bit unclear the same way it would be for them. And I think that the one of the things that I really enjoyed was the fight not at the end and but

[00:43:05] the the trolley showing up and then what we see as far as because I didn't notice any power the first time I watched it but when I watched it again I did and then the the nine yave just straight up blowing shit up like she basically

[00:43:26] can like she she and she doesn't she doesn't do things like a half heartedly or with any kind of control is just no, no, no, no, no, no. And heal everybody or destroy everything or or whatever you just piss her off

[00:43:42] and send her in the direction of your enemies and you know hopefully she can do something with that She doesn't seem fully in control of it. At all like yeah I feel like she she's just like okay I like this emotion

[00:43:59] basically she kind of like you were saying a couple of episodes ago Ben everything that she uses is it drives is driven by emotion and everything that she does with the power she just she basically gets to the point where she can't control

[00:44:13] it anymore and just it blows out of her Yeah, it seems like it has to be triggered like it's not anything she can control right like you talked about more rain and you know she was doing her very elaborate dance to with her hands

[00:44:27] and her motions and what not to open the the the waygate but but you know straight up hey just gotta blow out all my dreads and blow out my braid and just release everything well I mean there are hints too that it could be

[00:44:47] fear triggered because in both instances it seems like it was almost a fear that kind of caused it to happen and the first time it happened it was the fear of losing land because he was dying right in front of her that fear triggered the healing

[00:45:03] and this time she was just given all these words by the black wind to enhance her fear which triggered an even bigger blast this time to kind of to stop it. Yeah, to hold everything off Yeah, yeah so that again it makes me wonder if

[00:45:23] you know if they would have gotten out had Nanyave not been distracting the black wind and while Moiraine was trying to open the waygate so hey each of these people are playing a part in in their survival I mean I don't know if I would have

[00:45:41] eventually gotten to the guiding if Perrin hadn't seen it from however far off he saw it Yeah, it doesn't look like they were that far away from it Yeah, but I think that's where that whole very encroaching darkness comes into play Did you think that Moiraine looked surprised

[00:46:01] like when it was her and Nanyave they were both channeling like opposite of each other and they showed Moiraine's face she looked like shocked that Nanyave was able to do that, like they seemed to be working together and I don't know she seemed surprised to me I saw

[00:46:27] a look go back I mean, I'll be honest I was really distracted by her one power acrobatics that she man, she is doing some elaborate hand motions in order to use the power and it just goes back to what Valdi was talking about

[00:46:49] as far as like those are just crutches that you could use the power without your hands but if you don't believe that it will then it won't do what you want to do I will say the one thing that confused me

[00:47:05] about the ways in this episode too was I know like it's been determined that the ways is meant for fast travel although very dangerous it's meant to get you places very quickly so when they're within the ways and Moiraine says it's a day's walk to the

[00:47:23] gate to the eye of the world okay then how far is it away that it still takes a day within the ways to get there but then once they exit at Faldara she's like get your rest it's a day's walk to the eye

[00:47:37] I'm like what are you talking about it was a day's walk within the ways how is it only a day's walk from Faldara yeah and why would you pick the ways of all your modes of transportation okay so let me I'm going to try to provide some clarity

[00:47:53] so in Tarvalon let's just say that you are and they say they use the term leagues and a league is three miles so they say oh it's a thousand leagues from here so it's three thousand miles so a thousand leagues so the one day

[00:48:17] allowed them to travel from Tarvalon to Faldara it would have been a day's walk to the eye of the world which is maybe 2500 miles and then from Faldara to through the Blight it's a day's walk but in the ways that would have been a number of hours

[00:48:43] but that's what I mean so I mean they took a rest and then from that rest they had to find the way gate to Faldara so it wasn't very long after she said it's a day's walk within the ways to get

[00:48:57] to the way gate to the eye of the world but yet in what was probably only a couple hours later because of the rest so they didn't even move in that time they get to the gate of Faldara and once they escape

[00:49:11] once they exit the way gate at Faldara it's still only a day's walk I would think it would be a couple days walk from Faldara it was only a day's walk within the ways I was thinking that she said that when they entered the ways as opposed to

[00:49:25] she said it both times she said it in the ways and when they exited the way gate what I mean is from the time when they went in and Tarvalon a day's walk to the eye of the world which would be like you know say 3000 miles 2500 miles

[00:49:41] and then they walked most of a day for 10 hours or 15 hours and then they got to where Faldara is and so where it only would have been 4 or 5 more hours to get to the way gate to get them out at the eye of the world

[00:50:01] they exited at Faldara and they still have in the real world they have a day's walk from Faldara to the eye of the world yeah but she doesn't say they have a day's walk until right before they rest and that's where I think

[00:50:15] you're hitting on a good continuity issue if that's the case then yeah it's weird because when she said when they got out of the way gate at Faldara and she said it's a day's walk how is that possible should be a little further than that

[00:50:29] and it seems like would it be worth it to take those risks to go into the black pit of despair if it's just a couple days and then I was like I don't know it did seem odd to me because

[00:50:43] I said that and then my husband was like well what if it took 3 months to get somewhere and I was like okay that makes sense but then that happened and I was like that doesn't make sense to me anymore so I wasn't the only one

[00:50:55] yeah okay so I think that maybe like I think maybe you're hitting a good continuity issue and I think that from I think the intent was 15 hours of walking would get you to the end point but they were interrupted at you know 8 hours in or 10 hours in

[00:51:15] and so they only had a couple hours left to go but then they had to get interrupted that was very convenient that the Faldara gate was very close yeah I was kind of like well why wouldn't you just go to like step out of Faldara

[00:51:29] sleep for a day and then hop back into the ways and then like oh instead of resting in the ways yeah like oh hey get me to the Faldara gate oh it's literally like around the corner right so we should sleep in here but yeah there are definitely

[00:51:45] some issues with that but yeah so I liked a lot of the ways but now that you bring that up that is a good point yeah it's probably just a little bit of something they needed to they might have just missed the continuity like you said alright Wendy

[00:52:05] well my number one was what the wind said to everybody and I think we went over that but I will talk about what Rand said we didn't find out what the wind said to Rand we found out a little bit

[00:52:21] but we didn't find out the whole thing until the end and when he comes out of the gate he's crying and we see that what it said to Rand was you've always known it's you deep down no matter how fast or how far

[00:52:43] you run you cannot escape your fate you are the dragon reborn and we see in flashbacks that his father Tam actually told him a few things that I guess made sense to him at the time about his father mentions Carrie which is that his mom I guess

[00:53:11] that was Tam's wife so yes we'll say adoptive mom oh but that wasn't as biological mother I don't think Tam knew the name of his biological mother and so we find out that Rand believes he's the dragon reborn and that now makes sense of

[00:53:41] the whole scene that we had in the beginning with the I.L. right? she was an I.L. and that opening scene was just amazing but I'm pretty sure that's probably some of your number one so I will let you guys we can talk about that

[00:54:03] then but that was basically it and I liked the way I thought Rand was kind of a mediocre character up until this episode I think one of our listeners said the same thing in some of the feedback they said he was the most boring

[00:54:21] character but I think that was very purposeful I think that's kind of a red herring in a way they made him the most unlikely one because he is the one and you could see that he kind of lived in a guane

[00:54:41] shadow in a lot of ways like she was the more important person and he even said at some point he said you should go to the white tower and train to be an I.S.I.D. and I'll be your warder he's always kind of thought that

[00:54:57] he would be in the secondary position with her and we find out when he finally accepts it in his heart then he's able to hit those bull's eyes every single time and you can see that he's just kind of accepting his fate and we see a stronger rand

[00:55:23] I think that when he was talking to a guane when he said go to the white tower and you think I'd let anybody else be your warder I think that was he basically had made up his mind that well I'm going and she's not

[00:55:45] going to but go be what you need to be and the least I can do is save you by not letting you go to the eye of the world and die just my take I mean I think yeah I think ultimately he would have done anything for her

[00:56:10] he was very committed to her and being with her and protecting her and I don't think he was bullshitting her though at that point when he said that I believed that he believed that and I think when he finally accepted in his heart of hearts

[00:56:28] that he was the one and also I would imagine Moraine also had something to do with that because Moraine doesn't want to take other people down with her so she's going to take rand because he's the one and that's it and rand's going to agree with that

[00:56:46] because rand wants to protect the people he loves as well yeah that was my take okay I don't know necessarily know that when he if it was like okay hey when he woke up and he was thinking about it and he started reflecting on everything

[00:57:04] that he had seen with his father and what he had heard in the ways and flashing back his uses of the power not only in the ways but on the ironwood door I will say that those were some of my favorite parts and I'm sure that the

[00:57:26] intent was for that to be an emotional kind of touchstone in the episode but it definitely got me and it got me on the second time too where I was just like oh shit oh shit you see the black

[00:57:42] start to flow from behind him when he hits the door and and when he's protecting her in the Trollic attack yeah I was just like oh boy I really really dig the use of Sidon and I am looking forward to seeing more of it

[00:58:04] although I don't know that he same way with Nine Yave any idea what he's doing with it except in reflex which I think is I mean if you've never done something before like you pick a guitar and you know learn how to play you can strum

[00:58:24] but you can't necessarily make a tune so I wasn't the only one that noticed that when Rand was conjuring they were black they weren't regular weeds no they were absolutely black okay because I didn't pick up on that until the second time very similar to the false dragon

[00:58:48] yeah to the looking I didn't pick up on it until the second time and I didn't even really really take notice of it until the scene where they show him pushing the Trollic over the side but is that black because it's black versus white or is it black

[00:59:06] because maybe men when they channel are black and women when they channel are white I don't know but I think it was open to interpretation it is black because of the dark ones taint and did you watch the Origins yet Wendy? I didn't see an Origins

[00:59:26] for this one I watched it for Lowell for last week yeah did you watch the first one the Breaking of the World? I don't think I got to that one yet okay so the first one Breaking of the World and then the one about Saiden and

[00:59:42] Sidar which are the two halves of the power it goes into like they contain the dark one but in one last backlash the dark one tainted Saiden which drove all of the male channelers in the world mad and that's where everybody went crazy and just started killing shit

[01:00:04] left and right and so I said conjuring again I meant chatting and so basically the taint is what causes it to be black before the taint when male channelers would channel they would produce that same white as Saidar but there is a difference

[01:00:32] in the two powers and how you control them and so the black that you're seeing is specifically because you see white and then you see black covering it and that's the dark ones taint okay I don't believe that necessarily means it's going to be used for evil

[01:00:54] it's just that's what the power is exactly it just happens to one of the descriptions from the book it's like imagine taking a drink of the sweetest water you've ever had and that's what Saidar is like and when you pull on Saiden there's that same that same sweetness

[01:01:20] but you have to go through a vile film of either oil or sludge on top of it in order to access it so my question to Wendy are you convinced that we know who the dragon is at this point or do you still question

[01:01:42] I think I still question just because every time I'm convinced I'm wrong that's fair so we have someone who thinks they are the dragon reborn or at least knows that he can channel although Iguin and Nanyave are still outliers they still have all of them

[01:02:02] still have a lot going on yeah absolutely I was just curious where you were falling yeah alright I guess that's my number one unless Wendy has anything else yep that's good well I had one of two that I was going to use

[01:02:22] for my number one and one of them was the reveal of the dragon with Rand so we don't have to talk about that one so Wendy you pretty much hit the nail on the head that opening scene amazing yeah that opening scene on what's the um

[01:02:44] dragon mount that's it man like this show has already proven that this is all about girl power like this all about woman power and woman empowerment and this scene just furthers that even more seeing this female warrior who we now have been revealed as Rand's birth mother

[01:03:04] not only a total badass but a total badass while in labor not just pregnant yeah not just pregnant she is giving birth at this point and still taking on multiple soldiers and one of my favorite things about this this scene too is not just the choreography

[01:03:26] and the fight and everything else but something that this fight scene utilizes that you don't see very often are pauses yeah like there's two of them in this scene where they literally just stop they stare at each other so it's like take a breath

[01:03:42] let's go back to it and those pauses enhance that battle so well that like even during those pauses like if I had nails to bite I would be sitting there like okay what's gonna happen let's go let's go let's go and it starts back up again but that

[01:04:00] that opening man was some of the most incredibly tense but amazing just absolutely amazing minutes of I think it's the best opening of any episode we've gotten so far I mean I would absolutely agree with that at this point not even like

[01:04:22] I'm trying to think of what other three credit scenes we have have had and I mean we have the red aja chasing the guy at the beginning um swans swans intro which was good I mean not nearly as impressive as this is this in the box books

[01:04:42] when you saw her did you think of rand because I did because of the red hair so so I they they you know what this is or well I knew okay was but they this scene is not played out in the books at all

[01:05:00] okay it is it is recounted by tam but it is not nearly as dramatic in the books tam finds her with a baby is not a battle scene that I remember it may have been that she was injured and then went off and had a baby but

[01:05:22] that this this was Ben's right this was phenomenal yes I thought immediately of rand but the surprise to me was that tam was not his real father that was a shock to me and that you know I thought that she was gonna you know he he knew her

[01:05:48] that was his wife and you know that's how his wife died but that was that was a shock to me that he didn't know her and that he just you know took the baby and that was pretty shocking but I thought that was rand right away

[01:06:06] I mean that makes complete another sense if if you if you had watched it on sub with subtitles on at least on the one that I did they gave you a name and I'm not gonna mention it here because they she may come up later

[01:06:26] I know the name too and I didn't that's why I didn't mention it because I they don't mention it on the series it's not only listed in the series yeah there's no specifics to it or anything like that it's not somebody that you immediately would

[01:06:38] recognize or anything like that but but I was like oh man that was this is very much like a like a game of thrones you know this this plus this equals this and I thought it was interesting because rand's parentage in the

[01:06:54] in the books is a big mystery for a long time but the the yeah the the I noticed the pauses as well then and it reminded me of like in duels where knights would do duels

[01:07:10] and then they were just like lower their their short tips for a second and like basically give themselves a chance to breathe yeah you know in honor but what this reminded me of was like you you watch you know well first it reminded me of like

[01:07:30] almost being filmed in bullet time in the matrix with her you know running past and grabbing onto the cloak and it's slowing down for a second then jerking at him and then stabbing him in the face with her spear and and then the the choreography was

[01:07:50] it was basically like Jackie Chan movies which I love the choreography but like they're almost almost like silly you know like oh and then like basically somebody punches and he like moves his head and like grabs their rest and it's almost pauses between each each movement

[01:08:14] this was just a flowing dance as opposed to a fight like every every movement was calculated she was anticipating their movements and then you know the only reason she lost was she got hit by a contraction in the middle of basically gave her a moment of weakness

[01:08:38] where she had to let go and then her being stabbed in the side I was like no that was awful yeah it was some red wedding style there and I was just like oh my god the actress who the actress, the stunt double, whoever the

[01:09:02] fuck was doing it was just fantastic and it was it looked like a dance and it was so phenomenally well done this was like my blown away type like and I will tell you the actress and the person who did the stunt work are one in the same

[01:09:26] nice that is awesome because she's known for doing stunt work I looked her up she's known for doing stunt work on Dune, Carnival Row the 12 monkey series Underworld, she's done some stunt work so that was all her yeah that was such an amazing scene

[01:09:46] it just makes that opening even more badass and you know it's really nice so great so yep that was I'm glad I got to use that as my number one one way or another that was getting brought up this part that's what I figured absolutely

[01:10:06] alright well so I'll be honest that was my number one but I'm going to it's fine I have plenty to talk about I'm going to just bring up so that we can talk about it rather than just mentioning her in notes I'm gonna bring up Min the seer

[01:10:24] and I want to talk about everything that she saw so she is you know being hidden by the ace of die she lives in Faldara but she saw her first vision ever when she was a kid and she saw Tam and

[01:10:44] she knew that the dragon had been reborn and was this tied to Gattara the character that swan and and Moiraen we're talking to we're talking about last episode and so what she sees she sees so parents got golden eyes and blood on his chin

[01:11:16] maybe he's going to be a cannibal or a werewolf a rand rocking a baby whose baby we don't know and then around Naniyave and a Gween a ring of gold and a white flame and then around between the four of them sparks are trying to

[01:11:40] take over the dark and the dark is trying to eat the sparks and then around around Moiraen the amourlin will be Moiraen's downfall the amourlin in full regalia will be her downfall and so that was it was interesting one of the fun things in the books

[01:12:10] is trying to understand what men sees and trying to extrapolate what those might mean in the future the ring of gold for either a Gween or Naniyave I took to be the Isidae ring yeah that she was an Isidae yep and the white flame I thought was channeling

[01:12:38] but I could be wrong I think that's what I took from that too is that they're both going to become Isidae which makes sense since they both do channel they're both two of the more powerful channelers they've seen in decades or centuries or millennia and then

[01:13:02] the whole explanation of I mean I love the frank conversation between men and Rand at the end do you see me at the eye of the world or do I come back and she just gets up and walks off tell me I'm not the dragon reborn

[01:13:20] okay you're not the dragon yeah that was good I like the actress and the way that she played that and then the I like men's character and she's frank and she's kinda ballsy and she's just like whatever I don't give a fuck do whatever you want

[01:13:46] but if you want me to talk to you about this you better tell me that you want to know because everything will change you can't go back after I talk to you about it but that was it meant as my number one since the other ones were

[01:14:02] so awesome and I've given my input on that opening battle and then the reveal of Rand and his self proclamation of the dragon reborn alright so any notes the only note that I have is the interesting part that Moirain is able to mask her bond with land

[01:14:32] which she does so that land doesn't know that she is left with Rand at the end of the episode I sense a very I sense a disconnect between the two of them coming and probably very soon especially with the connection that he's making with Nine-Avenal

[01:14:52] as much as I like the two of them and it's really driven us to learn about their characters I kind of sense that there might be a disconnect between them soon so I very specifically I thought it was as soon as he said oh she masked her bond

[01:15:10] and there was no other explanation of it I was like oh so last episode they masked her she masked the bond and then they explained it so we didn't have to go through the explanation now so that we knew that it was a thing that could happen

[01:15:22] and it was like in service of the story and and kind of giving me something that I hey this has already happened I know what it is and you go oh gosh what's she doing I forgot she did that last episode too

[01:15:40] I said I didn't realize they could do that I was wrong I forgot they did it last week but it's starting to become a habit yeah now it's like okay this is like twice in three days come on yeah exactly

[01:15:54] that's the only note I had I don't know Wendy what you have in the opening battle scene with Rand's mother the first person she kills by grabbing his cape to pull him off center all I could think about was Edna from The Incredibles saying no capes

[01:16:10] that totally reminded me of that at the moment anybody says Edna I immediately go no capes no capes and then the blight which the blight makes me think of what is the Matthew McConaughey movie Interstellar where they talked about the blight that was destroying all the crops

[01:16:38] that's what I every time he said it I kept thinking about that but then when we actually see the blight it's actually pretty scary looking it reminded me of the thorned forests from Sleeping Beauty and when they first walk into it you can hear and it sounds

[01:16:56] like it's moving and writhing and there's a skeleton in it so it looks like not a place to go yeah I would not want to have to walk a day through that no in order to get anywhere and maybe that's why they were going through

[01:17:16] the ways instead of right maybe I mean that makes more sense to me yeah probably would have bypassed all of the blight if you could manage to not walk through the miles and miles maybe that's why it takes a day to get through it

[01:17:34] it's actually only like two miles but you have to go through all the trees and all this shit alright so any other notes Wendy that's it okay so the fact that that Maureen saying oh Matt would have chosen the dark one I'm like oh shit that's pretty dark

[01:18:02] the loyal asks for patients in the ways and I didn't catch it till the second viewing but if he asked for patients we're all going to die here well I like how he says at 1.2 how us ogiers are not known for our speed

[01:18:20] and then the moment the black wind comes he is moving pretty damn fast along with everybody else I still love loyal I think he's a great character fantastic so I mentioned it a little bit already but the Moirene sass I know we need to ask questions

[01:18:40] but I don't know if the audience is already talking about Lord of Igilmar he's a bit of a douche just supposing he understands what's going on then his sister was in the White Tower for a while

[01:18:58] and her power was not strong enough to be an ice to die which seems like if she can channel it all that's a little bit of a waste yep seems a little silly for you to just maybe not cut ties but

[01:19:14] you get the ring but not the stone because you don't get to choose an aja Moirene was asked the sister to send a message to the red aja to find Matt in case he can channel I don't know what happens when you try to

[01:19:32] gentle someone who can't touch the source if he's not a channeler I'm assuming that everything we saw all the blackness and whatnot was from Shrullagoth and not from channeling we talked about Peron and Aguin Daishan Future Kings of Melchie Melchieir and then the story of Melchieir being absorbed

[01:20:04] by the blight somewhere in that big old Fort, what was it the Brer rabbit don't throw me in that bramble patch or whatever it is don't throw me in that damn old Brer patch that's what it reminded me of was the Brer patch so somewhere in there is

[01:20:30] the rest of Lannes family and his entire culture he was meant to be a king and then the last vision that Tam had was of Rand, and I don't know, not Tam, sorry Men had of, and I don't know if she was being truthful but she had

[01:20:50] Rainbows and carnivals and three beautiful women I think that was just men being sarcastic yeah it's just like is that for real or is that I mean don't get me wrong I guess rainbows are good but what about carnivals carnival is a weird small hands smell like

[01:21:16] and then I wonder how many people would get these realises so that's all I have I just thought of one more real quick one that I want to bring up in relation to something that was brought up last week and you guys were talking about Moiraine's banishment

[01:21:32] from the White Tower and what that potentially means doesn't mean she's no longer an Isidae or doesn't mean she just can't return to the White Tower and I put a little thought into that too and it made me question something what if the banishment because if she is

[01:21:48] potentially banished from the White Tower if that means she is no longer considered an Isidae it doesn't mean she can't channel that's something that she's learned it doesn't go away with just being denounced as an Isidae what if the banishment from the White Tower is a way

[01:22:08] for Swan to be able to grant Moiraine the ability to get around the oath of not being able to lie and not being able to kill knowing what she is going to be facing against the dark one and the travel along the way

[01:22:24] I feel like we would have seen that I feel like they would have given that they have to swear on the oath rod and all that and we saw her take the oath to Swan last episode I feel like we would have had

[01:22:42] and I mean don't be wrong if she can lie now then she just said I can't lie girl to Ninyev which would be a lie and so that's an interesting thought but I feel like they would have made a bigger deal of that if that was the intent

[01:23:02] I've come around to Eric and Wendy's way of thinking it just means she can't return to the White Tower until called by specifically Swan Sanchez not the Amarillo seat as she changed the words well because even that was one of the things that Min

[01:23:22] tells to Moiré in this episode as well is that Swan is going to be her downfall so that's not great but that could mean anything there are so many different ways to interpret that fricking prophecies they're never like go here do this I did have one last note

[01:23:46] just based on what Ben you were saying earlier and what we talked about the last few weeks so Moiré has talked about being able to release the bond oh I heard there was a way to release the bond and you know been afraid of dying

[01:24:10] and leaving land without a water or rather without an ice to die so it makes me wonder if the uh when we go to the Eye of the World and the dragon face is the dark one is she going to release the bond

[01:24:30] so that in the event that she does die land is not faced with the same the same feeling and guilt and and despair that Steppen was and then that opens the door for Nanyave to bond and land to bond I think that's kind of

[01:24:56] where we're heading only because again to make mention of a fact that there's a way for the bond to be broken why would you bring that up if that's not going to play later unless you're trying to make people think that's what's gonna happen damn you either way

[01:25:14] I'm all there at this point I want to know I cannot wait for next week but alright uh that's it not that's it but well there's a little bit more coming we'll take a break stay with us alright and we're back moving into our segment

[01:25:52] on news about the wheel of time Joshua Stradowski spoke with Collider asked I would love to talk about the scene with the group going through the ways how much of that was practical in terms of effects and how interactive was

[01:26:08] it for the cast to work with because it looked really cool on screen uh and Joshua Stradowski said yes that was in a very very dark big studio good call Wendy uh and it's very nice to see that on screen it looked so good maybe not too windy

[01:26:24] uh on on the day it looked good as well but for us it was a lot of walking back and forth it's always a surprise how it turns out and I think especially with Martin Shin I thought I thought was really scary and looked really realistic as well

[01:26:40] I mean I like I thought I liked it and it is funny oh yeah it was this really really dark soundstage good call Rand has a pretty big revelation this week in terms of his identity as you've already spoken to a bit the identity of

[01:26:56] the dragon reborn has been a mystery throughout the series obviously readers of the books know that it's a little more up front from the beginning so it's interesting to see it play out at this point in the show what makes this time different for Rand

[01:27:12] when it comes to his ability to finally accept it Stradowski says well it's not an easy thing to accept I mean who would dare to face such a truth I think it needs all those other moments to finally come to that conclusion in episode 7 Rand has always been

[01:27:30] someone that was kind of behaving as a leader not someone that follows blindly he was questioning he was questioning Moraine from the very start and he was seeing what was going on also with Matt trying to take care of him and actively trying to reunite with his friends

[01:27:50] that's just his behavior and that's the kind of leader dragon behavior that I saw in those first episodes then of course you have the hints the little ones recognizing dragon mount or being recognized as an ailment then there's a bigger one and that's about a huge part

[01:28:10] of his identity and that's the fever dream of Tam that his dad might not be his real dad and Min can only confirm that Collider adds on Rand's conversation with men brings with it the reveal that the super badass pregnant woman that we see at the beginning

[01:28:28] of the episode is in fact his mom given that the show has been renewed for season 2 will Rand be able to explore more of his true background and where he really comes from Mr. Dotsky responds oh yeah that moment in episode 7 where he realizes he's the dragon reborn

[01:28:42] I think season 2 is really about him becoming the dragon reborn and all the difficulty that comes with that is that he's now cut off from his roots and it really just means the start of a huge identity shift for him in season 2

[01:28:54] and I think that's about all I can say I think this pretty much confirms at this point that he is the dragon he doesn't just think it he is there was a little bit more to that I'll put the link to the interview and the show notes

[01:29:10] so anybody who wants to you can go take a look at it there are a few more questions and answers in that alright we have our listener feedback Karen Maderos sent us an email love the podcast so much fun listening to you guys

[01:29:26] debate and delve into the world of the wheel I finally just caught up on your podcast so my comments are a little behind I never read the books so keep in mind these comments are all coming from a show watcher regarding the women being able to see

[01:29:40] Logaine's weaves in episode 4 Moraine says that she knew that women couldn't see men's weaves but that she can feel Logaine's power what's a mystery to me though is how did Karen see that Logaine's weaves were getting stronger towards Moraine and Leandron she throws her weaves

[01:30:02] or whatever the terminology is to protect them and that's when she gets mortally injured I also don't understand where the heck Moraine was when that battle happened and Logaine got free that seemed suspicious to me that's a really good point Karen I think I actually brought that up

[01:30:20] on one of the podcasts whenever that happened because I was like maybe I think when she, when they are shielding him they can feel his weaves basically they're trying to cut them off and she could feel it slipping through I guess but

[01:30:44] I don't remember if I mentioned it or not but I was wondering if Moraine actually was like I'm going to set this up so that I can actually talk to Logaine that's a really good point yeah and I felt like they can't see it but they can feel

[01:31:00] it and we can see it because we need that representation instead of people just acting all hokey just waving hands yeah she continues and says in that episode it seems that it's common knowledge that the red sisters Leandron are gently men Steppen tells Karenie

[01:31:22] that there's talk of this she doesn't believe they would do that but we know that Moraine and Leanne have seen Leandron do it in episode one in Rand's Dream slash Vision Karen is attacking a red eye sidi looks like a red robe

[01:31:38] and there's a ring on the hand that the camera pauses on I could be wrong curious if anyone took another look at that scene I didn't go back and look at it but I think Ben were you the one who said it was a tinker

[01:31:50] I think it yeah I was the one that said I think it's a tinker just by in the clothing that they were wearing I believed it to be a tinker I might have to go back we may have to go take a look at that

[01:32:02] like you guys I loved several quotes Tom's nothing is more dangerous than a man who knows the past and Moraine's Swan Sanche waits for only one woman and it's not you I like that one that was good amazing lines the performances are incredible on this show

[01:32:20] are we ever going to see Tom and Lord Bolton Rand's dad again Tom better not be dead I agree I think we will see those guys again I can't wait to see Tom again we saw a very I don't know if that's like

[01:32:38] the I thought the de-aging of Tam was a little weird but I didn't recognize him whenever I didn't recognize him as a young Tam and I thought I was like did they recast Michael Mechelhetten but I don't I imagine we'll see them I can't imagine Tom's dead

[01:33:02] I'm telling you still to this day in seven episodes out of the eight still to this point one of my favorite lines of dialogue so far is Tom's line of nothing is more dangerous than a man who knows the past it's still one of my favorite

[01:33:18] lines of dialogue so far from this series totally understand that that's a great line Tammy Barr also sent us a quick email omg that cold open was the most intense five minutes of TV I've ever experienced we agree the acting writing and directing this

[01:33:36] show gets me so connected to and invested these characters in like seven seconds flat I was wondering what would that was a setup for and finally got my answer at the end it was a beautiful story just because Rand was born on that mountain doesn't

[01:33:48] mean he's a dragon right I don't think it's him the rest of the episode was just okay for me I enjoyed exploring a new city and the series vision but as a whole it was a little slow for me question if you were in our little

[01:34:00] two rivers dragon group would you follow more rain knowing it cost you your life oh that's that's a good question that is a good question I like to think I like to think that I could put the the needs of the world ahead of me having said that

[01:34:22] I can also see parents viewpoint of what if she's wrong and we're all fucked if yeah if if she just she thought they was one of us because she wasn't sure it wasn't low gain and then they gentle low gain and then they left Matt behind

[01:34:40] yeah and so like what if he's the dragon and they're like well he probably isn't if he is then yeah I think I said at the end of of last episode if Matt is the dragon then we are all left in the A I laughed out loud

[01:34:58] and you said that last week I can't answer that Tammy I personally I like to think that I would be willing to self sacrifice myself for the on the chance that that I could do something good but I don't I don't know yeah I mean the whole

[01:35:18] the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few like you mentioned kind of comes to mind and I'd like to think I'd be the same way but until I was put in that situation I now if I could talk to walls

[01:35:30] I might be like I'm gonna get my friends and we're gonna come back but yeah I think it would depend on what's going on in my life and then you know to walk away from families and and friends and loved ones to never see them again

[01:35:48] now if I have already accepted the fact that the dark ones after me and all my family or friends are in trouble as long as I if I'm ever near them then I might that might be a little bit easier for you to make the call

[01:36:04] Wendy I can definitely see why they have doubts I'm to be honest Moraine seems to have doubts so she kind of I can see how they would all have doubts with no no the question is if you were in the group yeah I would you go

[01:36:24] I don't I don't know I think I would have doubts about going okay yeah because Moraine doesn't seem very sure of herself even the person who's trying to convince us to go is like well she's going but I mean right but what if they're all wrong

[01:36:40] and I mean yes we saw the Trollic attack but that's really all they've seen right well so ran saw Matt and getting the all of the poison sucked out of him so I mean yeah but I but that doesn't have anything to do

[01:36:58] with the end of the world and the dragon reborn and I don't know I can definitely see why they have doubts oh yeah absolutely yeah that's a good point I know that we had talked about the difference between Nineyave and and Rand and they're different what

[01:37:14] Nineyave's seen and why she would have doubts regardless although you know if land believes then maybe Nineyave could come to come to terms with the fact that you just found potentially just found love and now we're both going to go die for basically no reason

[01:37:34] so yeah so back to feedback the next piece of feedback comes to us from Shay White excellent episode my favorite part was the Rand birth reveal and all of the action I especially liked how he came to his realization and the use of flashbacks Colin of course liked

[01:37:50] Loyal and was into the excellent depiction of the blight Peyton Pat and Fane is back another great moment for me as a book reader is seeing Uno and hearing him cursing immediately Uno is the one-eyed character exactly with the eye patch oh you great bloody bastard yeah

[01:38:12] Faldara was amazing and what was the last and what will the last episode bring Colin wants to know was what is happening with Matt we can't wait to see the season finale I'm kind of predicting we may not see Matt at all in the family

[01:38:26] yeah I think you're right I think that was revealed that we won't see him until next season well because the actor didn't show him anymore after that season so I think we have oh my god I can't talk I do not think we're going to see Matt

[01:38:42] in the finale yeah loyal and also loyal like he we saw him a little bit in the ways and then did we even really see him in Faldara no I think we see him exit the ways and that believe that's the last we see

[01:38:58] of him in the episode we didn't have any like builder moments or anything like that that city of Faldara was beautiful I mean it's a fortress city but still it's like all the straight lines and I guess straight lines are good for any kind of fortress but yeah

[01:39:18] alright Lindsay Schlicht says Rand Ugg what a predictable choice of the most boring character on the show I am truly loving the show but this is my first big disappointment I think that was kind of a red herring that the show focused on everybody else

[01:39:36] because they kind of wanted you to do that but I think we got decent character development on Rand in this episode and I think we're going to get more yeah I would I would agree and yes Lindsay he was the one with the least

[01:39:54] going on all he's got is following a queen around like a puppy although he did as Josh had mentioned in that interview like he stood up to Moraine he made arguments for or against whatever he was trying to help Matt get past whatever the junk

[01:40:14] was that he was dealing with so I don't necessarily disagree with you that he's the most boring but I think that there are some qualities to him that I'm looking forward to seeing how it continues to play out and I believe we have a call from

[01:40:38] Mr. Steve Brown Hello HousePodcast again this is Steve this is going to be for Wheel of Time Episode 7 I don't see what the title is oh there it is the dark along the ways okay now who is this someone we haven't seen it is she pregnant

[01:40:56] oh she's pretty badass though well that was an interesting cold open oh man this black wind that's not messing around the way it's messing with all their heads and even Moraine how do you say her name Moraine

[01:41:08] I feel like I want to watch that scene again with the black wind to see what it said to each different person but I really want to finish this episode will she condemn Matt to be gentle if she's sending his name to the red Aja

[01:41:18] TV podcast initiatives will be happy we have another pub scene the seer sees visions and there's something about a pattern unless they're going to join together like four mini robots joining together to make one big robot like four mini dragons to make one big dragon

[01:41:36] where is the O'Gear do they not need him anymore now that they're not going to travel by the way by the ways the land put his sword he had his sword on his back then he took it off to go outside and get not even bring her inside

[01:41:50] oh that's sweet he's going to offer to be her water even though he knows that depending on what house she picks I guess they wouldn't necessarily be together together right Matt and Gwen it appears that the sun is up so shouldn't they already be going she just agrees

[01:42:08] that he's the dragon and goes with him alone the other four are going to follow right they've got to land and all the rest of them right next week we'll come fast enough okay Steve yes dragon Voltron that's what we're looking forward to is dragon Voltron

[01:42:30] there's the dragon we never knew we needed the four dragons come together to become one dragon as one that is awesome well didn't they also mention last week two of the five headed dragons yeah and then we agree well disappeared and there was no more talk of him

[01:42:52] maybe he had to go off to his own cova bubble oh I want to see interactions between Tom and Loyal mm-hmm those conversations will go on forever hahahaha um Tom will just tell stories and Loyal will give the history behind them yeah it'll be quite the

[01:43:12] quite the interesting conversation I smell a wheel of time spin off thus ends the seventh episode of the wheel of well on the wheel of time um if you get a chance leave us a rating for house podcastica on your chosen podcast reviewer thing mabob or raider

[01:43:36] if you'd like to write in or record a message and send it in you can email it to talk at podcastica.com check out our facebook page at facebook.com slash podcastica and of course you can also find us on twitter at podcastica

[01:43:52] uh stuff that's been going on nowadays so Wendy you want to talk to us about yellow jackets yellow jackets it's really great it caught all of us by surprise and we got obsessed with it I watched five episodes in one week it's really good it's a dark mystery

[01:44:14] um think alive meets lure to the flies um and it also has like a dark it reminds me of true detective that showed on HBO except it's faster than true detective true detective was real slow and methodical and this is this is faster there's there's more going on

[01:44:40] so it's really good Wendy Wendy dafty penny and I um we filmed the first episode which covered uh episodes one to five and then they're gonna go week to week after that should be out in the later part of the week I would think

[01:44:58] did you guys record that already for episode six I think they're recording tomorrow and it's gonna be rotating host so I'm not gonna do tomorrow's okay yeah I need to watch episode six I jam packed episodes one through five

[01:45:16] last week and in about a day and a half what did you think I think it's great super interesting and the dynamic between the characters is kind of dark like not just kind of dark pretty dark although a couple of the actresses are just amazing yeah they are

[01:45:36] and then strange indeed is covering finishing up walking key I think they're on the second to last a ninth episode now and so the wrap up season two and Dexter which is apparently still going very very well and Dexter's out today but I didn't

[01:45:56] watch it but there's only two episodes left right today's in next weeks I don't know oh yeah I don't know but all I know is apparently yeah because I haven't the new episode just released as of the time we're recording this on Sunday

[01:46:12] the new episode just hit today which is episode seven and I think there is only one more episode I'm actually checking as I'm talking I'm asking the question can I just watch this season there's ten and missed out on last five or so it refreshes you enough

[01:46:30] about what you need to know from the previous eight seasons that you can go into this fresh and still be completely and honestly I would watch just the last just the very last episode of the previous season just I wouldn't even watch

[01:46:46] that when it was horrible well I know it's horrible but I think it gives you a good background though I'm okay where it leaves off and this season the Dexter is ten episodes oh it is good and so there's still there's still three more after yeah

[01:47:00] and I haven't watched this week yet either because it did just come out today I'm actually planning on watching it as soon as we're done recording from what I hear it's another like mind blowing review or happening in the I figure if it's truly

[01:47:14] only going to be this season which it sounds like it is they have a lot to do in a few episodes that's all I'll say yeah I don't know I'm loving this season I like it I really like it and Rieman it really has been I

[01:47:34] haven't missed a minute of it nice all right next time on this podcast the wheel of time season one episode eight the I of the world alright that's our show thanks for listening let the dragon ride again on the winds of time yeah when he does it better

[01:47:54] yes she does