700: "Start to Finish" (TWD S6E8 Rewatch) + Chris Fairhurst

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Hmm... Hmm... Podcast DRO! I'm lucky Michonne. Working with my family towards a better future is... Is all I ever wanted. That's what I got. I got to do... What I wanted.

[00:00:30] Right up to the end. What do you want? I want this place to work. Yes, but what does that mean? For you. What do you want? For you.

[00:01:31] Hey Zed Heads, welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Lucy. And I'm Chris. And this is The Walking Dead Cast Episode 700! What? Ha ha ha! We have a room full of children with us. We do. Very exciting. Um... In this episode, we're covering The Walking Dead Season 6 Episode 8 Start to Finish. But we're not starting with that. Not yet. Yeah. First, we're gonna welcome Chris.

[00:02:01] Welcome to the podcast, Chris. Yay! Thank you. Thank you. It's so fun to be here. And congrats on 700, guys. That's amazing. That's old hat for you. Well, we're approaching 750, so we're not that far ahead. Oh, we're not as far apart as I thought. No. No, not really. Uh... We're gonna start doing four a week, Lucy, so we can catch up. Nice! Yes! Good idea. That's a good idea. So, I just wanna mention that way back in 2009, AMC bought the rights to make a TV show

[00:02:31] out of the popular zombie comic book, The Walking Dead. You may have heard of it. And Chris and his co-host Jason immediately started a podcast about this as yet non-existent show in hopes that it would come to fruition. I'd argue, against the odds, that actually happened. Yeah. So, you guys were the first Walking Dead podcast. You've continued all this time. As you said, you're now at 743, coming up on 750, so big congratulations on that.

[00:02:56] And one thing I think is also maybe against the odds is that not only were you the first Walking Dead podcast, but you were also a very good Walking Dead podcast that stood the test of time. Absolutely. And that's really something to start a podcast in hopes that a show would be made and to still be doing it all this time later, almost 17 years, and to be a really good, maybe the best one. And so, and also like us, you're going through a rewatch. I see you're coming up on the end of season four.

[00:03:26] And so just to celebrate our 700th episode, I thought it would be fun to have you on and talk about things related to kind of like having been talking about this show, The Walking Dead, for a really long time. Well, all of that is very nice of you to say, and you know, I'm super happy to be here. I'm happy to come on anytime, but yeah, it's been so long. And we started just over a year before The Walking Dead premiered, right? Yeah. And yeah, you're right.

[00:03:56] We were, we were the first, just lucky enough to be the first, I guess. But you guys didn't come long after and you know, arguably just as good, if not better. Yeah. We were the third one. There was a couple other guys in there, but I don't know where they went. There were, neither do I. I did communicate with them briefly. It didn't go so well. Really? And then I met you, Jason, and we've been friends ever since. Do you want to say any more details about that?

[00:04:26] I'm kind of curious. You don't have to mention any names. No, honestly, they, they, um, started their show, said some things about our show in their recording at which I was listening to. Oh, wow. And it wasn't super friendly. Yeah. And so, uh, I was just like, ah, you know what? That, that doesn't seem to be the kind of people I want to hang out with. And then, uh. Steven Yeun's podcast, by the way. Yeah.

[00:04:54] Uh, but then shortly after that, you, you reached out to me and, um, had an idea and we just talked about various things and got to know each other. And here we are. Yeah. It's pretty cool. You know, it's very cool. Yeah. And I mean, we've mentioned this on the podcast before, but, um, actually that's how Lucy found us. To Chris and Jason. It's kind of nuts. Yeah. I loved you guys. I think my trajectory, I wish I had a way of going back and like tracking it.

[00:05:24] Cause it's, it seems wild to me that this was like maybe 2012 and that's so long ago now that's like 14 years, but I'm pretty sure it was, um, podcasts about Game of Thrones. And then thinking, Oh, if they have them about Game of Thrones, they must have them about the walking dead. And then finding you and Jason. And then you did a crossover episode with Jason and Karen. And I was like, women. And that was that.

[00:05:51] And it was so fun, um, getting to know you guys over the years. And we've done a couple of, um, crossover episodes now, and we all got to hang out in San Francisco. Well, except other Jason, which was a shame. Yeah. And it's a shame he's not here today, by the way. I guess he's just like really behind busy at work right now and can't make any time. It's too bad he couldn't join. Yeah. He's done the crossovers with us and stuff like that, but he's, he's going through a really difficult time at, at work at his day job.

[00:06:20] And, uh, it's even affecting our schedule right now. So we're, we're trying to sort it out, but you know, it's, it's what pays the bills and puts food on his table. So he's got to sort that out and deal with that first. But, uh, we're not in case anyone is thinking, Oh my God, they've disappeared and they're done. That is not the case. We're doing our best. We're still going, but he's just having a rough time. And, and we hope to have you guys back on for another crossover of some kind or another at some point. Yeah, totally cool. Yeah.

[00:06:48] And to be like abundantly clear, Jason is a paid zombie slayer for the Canadian government. That's his job. So he has to do what he has to do. He's got to slay those zombies. Slay what you want to tell. I could, there you're doing that. Um, so let's talk about the beginning when you guys started. Did you ever imagine you'd be doing it this long? Well, of course not.

[00:07:12] I mean, we, we, it, you know, I was thinking back and we were basically both huge fans of the comic book, reading it and listening to other podcasts about TV shows and thought, you know what, if there's ever a, maybe we could do that. If there's ever a, going to be a show about like the walking dead or something like that. Let's, let's do a podcast. We'll give it a try. Right.

[00:07:35] And I didn't think about longevity or, uh, anything really. I was just like, no, no, exactly. It's like, it'll be fun. It'll be fun. That's right. And our, our sort of approach at the beginning was just, let's just record when there's something to talk about because we were a year ahead of time and I'm like, I don't know if this is even going to happen. Um, and that's what we did for a little while. And it turned out there was a lot to talk about in that time.

[00:08:04] So we got into a bit of a rhythm and stuff, but you know, we didn't know anything about the show. We didn't know anything like what the walking dead would turn into and become. And we just thought it might be fun to talk about. And here we are 17 years later. It's kind of nuts. 17. Wow. Almost, almost. Yeah. I, I, I looked back at your early episodes for some reason, I had it in my head that there

[00:08:29] was like not even, there was nothing even saying that it was going to be a show, but you started right after they bought the rights. So there was, the wheels were in motion, but a lot of companies buy rights to things and they never happen. Yeah. So you kind of got lucky. I, yeah, for sure. I forget exactly what the situation was, but we started in September of 2009 and then the show premiered Halloween 2010. Yeah.

[00:08:59] Um, and maybe they'd bought the rights, but they hadn't sort of, uh, given the green light for the show yet. Yeah. And then they bought the pilot or they announced the pilot and yeah, like every time they'd have any big news, then you guys would come on. Oh, casting news or whatever. Pretty much. Yeah. We did some casting speculation and stuff like that for fun. Like who would play Rick Grimes and so on. Who were your dream castings, Chris? Do you remember any of them? Not right now.

[00:09:26] Although, um, we used to podcast a fair bit with a guy named Dave, friend of the show, Dave, and he, he called Michael Rooker for a character. I honestly don't remember which one, but then he showed up on the show. I don't think it was Negan. Oh, um, but he, he did show up on the show. Yeah. Maybe Shane, maybe Shane. That was the only one. It's gotta be somebody like that with him. Yeah. It's not going to be Beth or anything. No, probably not.

[00:09:55] So, uh, when I want to know from both of you, well, Lucy, were you, you weren't a fan of the comics first, right? No, no, I didn't know they were comics. You got into it later. Yeah. I got into it later. I, um, I remember Peter and I had just moved in together. It was like 2010 and we got our first, like this is before streaming and stuff. Like we were still getting Netflix, like DVDs delivered through the post, which makes me

[00:10:20] feel ancient now, but we had, um, I think it was sky or Virgin media or something. And they were really pushing the walking dead. And I kept seeing like the, the kind of poster for it. And in the UK, kind of emphasize enough how weird it was to us that Andrew Lincoln was going to be in this American show about zombies. Cause he was quite a like trad British actor who'd done like, um, love actually teachers, uh, this life, like stuff like that.

[00:10:47] So you heard about it beforehand that it was coming up and Andrew Lincoln was going to be in it. I, well, I hadn't heard about it beforehand. I started seeing the buzz when it came out and then this image of Andrew Lincoln in a cowboy hat was everywhere. And I really wanted to watch it cause I was like, Oh zombies. Oh, that reminds me of the stand, which I really loved when I was little. That's really bleak sentence. Parents probably shouldn't let me watch that when I was little. Um, and one day I think I was sick or something and Peter and I just sat and cause it was such

[00:11:16] a short first season, we just binged it. And I was like, this is great. And then from that point on, I think I was watching in real time a season two came out. Yeah. And so I guess this question applies to all of us. I was, I was a big comic fan. I was rooting for the show. I was writing to HBO telling them they should make it a show. I was writing to Robert Kirkman. You should make this a show. He's like, no shit, dude. Um, I'm trying, man. I'm trying. Exactly.

[00:11:43] It's pretty much, he used to write back back then cause he wasn't swarmed with people all the time. Um, but, um, anyways, I, I'm just want to focus a little bit on what our hopes were. And I remember reading the forward to the first collected edition of the walking dead comic, like in Robert Kirkman was saying, I'm not trying to be scary in this. And he gave a long thing about that.

[00:12:11] And I was like, well, I hope the show is scary though, because comic it's harder to be scary in a comic. Cause the user sort of in control of the pace, but in a show, right. And have things jump out at you and things like that. And I remember talking to Robert Kirkman about that. I'm like asking him about writing that he's not trying to be scary. And he's like, I was probably just being defensive. Cause I knew it wasn't going to be as scary as I wished it would be or something like that. But that was one thing that I really wanted it to be like the zombie movie that never ends,

[00:12:41] which means to feel like a horror movie. And I would say overall, it didn't really do that. There were times when it did like, uh, that episode with Connie and, um, Virgil, or people were coming out of the walls, you know? Um, but, or Beto in his Michael Myers episode. I love that stuff. But, um, I think that a show ended up being more like intense or actiony things like the

[00:13:10] governor attacking the prison or Negan and his lineup or the terminus, just like high stress things, but not like horror movie, scary things. And when I was thinking about that today, I'm like, well, it's probably better that it didn't go that way because it attracted a much wider audience than I think it would have. I've heard so many people say, oh yeah, I don't, I didn't think I was going to like this show cause I don't like horror movies, but I loved it.

[00:13:35] And so I'm glad that it went the way that it did because it's been such a great thing for it to break out in such a huge way that it has. And, and even though it's not like there are other horror shows I was thinking of that more fit what I was thinking, like haunting of a hill house, even alien earth. Um, welcome to dairy, sometimes black mirror where they're really freaky. Right. And walking dead is rarely like that, but, um, I, I wouldn't want walking dead to be any

[00:14:02] other way in hindsight, you know, do you guys have any thoughts about any of that? I w I would say walking dead. You're right. It went more, it went for more shocking and dramatic than it did for horror and scary. Absolutely. It's more of a survival thing than a freak you out. Yeah, absolutely. But just in terms of what I was kind of hoping for, um, I remember thinking when it was first starting that I was really hoping for a very faithful adaptation, like take the comic, put it into the TV show.

[00:14:33] And I mean, in some ways they really did that, but they branched out enough. I think, especially as the show went on, um, that I come back sometimes, which was cool. Right. Yeah. And Abraham and Eugene showed up. It's like, oh, they just stepped right out of the comic. That's it. Yeah. We're, we're just recently passed that bit in our rewatch. Right. And so. Some of these older episodes I haven't thought about very much in a long time. And so rewatching them is, is really fun, but you're right.

[00:15:02] That's a moment where it's like, oh my God, that is straight out of the comic book and, uh, for better or worse, you know, that is very, very familiar. But yeah, like they, they, I think that the show, I was just talking about this because we're covering the testaments, which is the sequel Handmaid's Tale sequel. Yeah. Based on, uh, Margaret Atwood's sequel book, the testaments. And they've changed some things from the book and some people watching are not happy with that at all.

[00:15:31] And I'm just like, with my experience with the walking dead over the years, it's really second nature for me to go the comic. I love it. The show. I love it. They're different. I appreciate each one for what it brings to the story. And so I feel the same way about the testaments, but anyway, just for the walking dead, definitely like Rick Grimes. I don't think he feels like the Rick Grimes in the comic in a lot of ways. He's one of the things that's in some ways most different and both versions are awesome in my opinion. Yeah.

[00:16:01] Jason, did you, did you finish reading the comic at the time it came out? Like when it ended? Yeah. Yeah. I read it. That was my, I mean, I've collected comics since I was in fourth grade and I would sometimes go away from comics and come back. But once the walking dead started, that was the one that I always wanted to go get as soon as it was available and read it right away. But, but I mean, you haven't, you haven't gone back to it then like you've finished reading it whenever it ended in 2017 or something. It's fading from my memory too. I I'm remembering less and less of it.

[00:16:31] It finished in 2019 didn't it? Cause we got Charlie Adler on the pod plug for another earlier episode. I don't even know what number it would have been. It was pre pandemic, which I remember. And weirdly I still had Charlie Adler on my Skype. I was like, Oh, the pandemic. I was like, maybe I'll, maybe I'll Skype him. See what he's up. I didn't do that. Just call him any time. What you do Charlie? It's pretty boring, huh? Like he might've loved that. Yeah.

[00:16:56] It was, I remember it was weird because, um, the comic was going along great. And there is a rumor like Robert Kirkman, because with comics you get three months of previews, three months ahead of you see the covers for the next three months in the previews magazines. So he had Charlie Adler make three fake covers and then just so we would think it was still going. And then he did a, that the most Kirkman is thing of all and just ended it without any warning.

[00:17:25] And, and it was kind of abrupt and it was awesome in a way, but it was also like, well, you just pulled the rug out, man. I love that comic. What are you doing? I know. I'm, I hear you. I know we're not here to talk about the comic, but I really liked, I really liked the end of the comic, but you're right. It was out of nowhere. And, uh, you know, ever, ever since then, uh, and maybe even before one of the things Jason has always said is he, he's never going to believe anything.

[00:17:51] Robert Kirkman says about anything ever again, because no matter what he's talking about, it's, it feels like he's making it up on the fly or purposefully, you know, steering in the wrong way. Right. Yeah. Lucy, what do you, what's coming up for you about anything that we've said so far? Just trying to think about what, what's kept me with the show for so long. I think it's a really good question. I think it's changed over the years, um, in terms of what's kept me there, because, you know, a few people, when they find out you podcast on it, they all say, you know,

[00:18:21] I dropped off after I'm like, let me go season seven, episode one. And they're like, yeah, how did you know? I'm like, cause everyone did. Um, and part of me is like, would I have stuck with the show if I wasn't so involved with podcast, the podcast network at that point? Mm hmm. And I think I would have, I think because at that point I was reading the comic as well. And I just really wanted to see how it all panned out. And I'm glad that I did.

[00:18:44] And I think for me, the draw was always, and it's so different talking about this post 2020 was the idea of apocalypse and what happens when the world falls apart. And that's what had really drawn me to the stand as a series and a novel. And that's what kind of sucked me in with the walking dead. It wasn't so much the zombies. It was the idea of like, what happens after?

[00:19:06] And this idea of it wasn't going to pull away after three weeks and say, you know, and then rescue happened or then they all died. It was going to stick with it. Yeah, it was going to stick with the ugly bits. And I really liked that. And then, of course, the characters suck you in. And I think I'm hard pressed to think of a show that's had more character development over the seasons.

[00:19:29] And sometimes that's, you know, we pick holes in that sometimes because sometimes it's like, you know, Daryl's evolution in some ways is really unbelievable at points. You're like, really? This guy from scene one to where we see him now. But there's joy in kind of seeing that play out, especially in the rewatch. And, of course, Carol is another great example of how that played out.

[00:19:49] And it's funny because I think, like, you know, we talk about antiheroes and the kind of way that TV in the 2010s really focused in on, like, unlikable people, particularly, you know, I'm thinking about people like Walter White or unlikable female characters. And, yeah, I always think of everyone on the show, Carol and Melissa McBride deserved a bit more critical attention because I think she does a lot of really interesting stuff with that kind of idea. People love her, though. But I don't know about critical attention. People do love Carol.

[00:20:18] Oh, yeah. That's not something as critical attention, though. Yeah. So I think, I don't know, I don't know what makes it so special. I think it is just the connection to people and the deep humanity of the story. I think the times where I found it hardest to watch is when it's kind of pushed my empathy away or made me, I don't know. I feel depressed about how people are acting, right? Yeah. Like, when they're acting like immoral or uncompassionate. Yeah.

[00:20:48] And it's not that I want everyone to act lovely and great all the time. It's more that, like, you want to know that the people you're rooting for are going to be okay in the end, no matter what takes them there. Yeah. And I think the show does land the plane with that in the end. Well, it frustrates me when it seems, the show seems to want to make the point that empathy is weak. And I don't know if it really does want to make that point, but sometimes, you know, the people who do the nice things are the ones that get killed a lot. And then I'm like, what are you trying to say, show? Yeah.

[00:21:19] Absolutely. We used to say a lot that, like, nothing good ever happened on The Walking Dead. And so when something nice did happen, when somebody was a good person or whatever, it felt like it really stood out. Yeah. It really jumped out. Yeah. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but The Walking Dead. Because that's like with an abuser when you're like, oh, he's nice to me today. Right. Yeah. Maybe everything's going to turn around. Yeah. Right. Right.

[00:21:46] You know, but that's, I mean, maybe that's a Kirkman thing again, too. Yeah. He's kind of into that a little bit, but it's, I also find it difficult to sort of think about what it is that made this show special because we were so in it. You know what I mean? Like we were watching it and talking about it and thinking about it all the time.

[00:22:12] And it, it felt like it had this, uh, just really insane, certainly during its prime years, like insane fan base, crazy fan base that we're really a big part of. And, you know, I, I don't know, was it any different than a show like Buffy or lost or Firefly that had really insane fans too, and a really strong community around it. Like what they have is special, but it's just another fan community. Well, yeah.

[00:22:39] And like, I do feel like being a part of this was a really special thing for a lot of different reasons. Right. But was it any different than another show? I don't know. I wasn't part of that. I'm sure in some ways it was different, but I'm sure that there's a lot of close knit fandoms that meet up and yeah, it's just fun to get together with people who love the same things that you like.

[00:23:31] Oh yeah. It's just endured through that. And you know, there's a running joke now, like, or how many seasons of The Walking Dead were there? Are they still making it? And I'm like, it's kind of amazing given what TV is like now that it endured that long and then it made it through 2020 into it. When were we in San Francisco 2022? Mm-hmm. That's incredible. And it lived through this whole seismic shift in how TV was made and consumed. Like, that's amazing. There's something quite old fashioned about it.

[00:23:58] Yeah. It's sort of funny that it's a show about zombies and it just won't die. Yeah. Oh my God. That should become the motto for The Walking Dead universe. Yeah. It just won't die. Oh, and I say that with love. But that's one reason why it was fun to podcast about the White Lotus because that felt pretty close to a monoculture thing when Jenny and Randy were podcasting about that.

[00:24:25] It seemed like a lot of people were talking about it, but it is rarer and rarer as time goes on. The reasons why I think it's special and why it was so big and why we all wanted to keep watching it, or me anyway, a lot of the things that you talked about. I just never would have predicted that The Walking Dead would have been such a character show, like you said, Lucy, and create such beloved characters. And that, I think, is a strength.

[00:24:53] You know, that's why Tales from The Walking Dead didn't do well because you had to meet new people each week. And this is a show about character. And it really makes sense when you think about it because they're in constant danger and they're being tested all the time. Life and death situations, threatening environments. And so we're learning what these people are made of. You know, we're learning how they handle high pressure situations.

[00:25:17] And that's why you come to love them because you've seen them go through so much and come through it and be scarred, but still persevere. You know, it's just a great thing to keep watching over and over again, just like showing that, fuck you, we're going to live, you know, and we're going to help each other and all that.

[00:25:35] And then kind of related is this theme of found family in the show is so like you feel like the bonds between these people are greater than most biological families and how that echoes into the fandom to some degree. So all of that stuff just really made it feel special to me. Yeah, it's a good point about the Tales of The Walking Dead, right? Those weren't great. And it makes me-

[00:26:02] I liked them, but they didn't have that element. No. And I know a lot of people didn't like them as much as I did though. Yeah. I think some of them were fine. A couple of them not great, not good at all. But like, it reminds me of, what did they do six episodes around season 10 just during COVID so they can- Yeah, at the end there, yeah. And focus on- Oh, I love those. Like just a- I did too. Mini group of characters, but they're characters that we know and we like.

[00:26:29] And so it was actually an enhancement to just focus on them for a little while rather than make up new people for Tales that nobody cared about. And if Tales could have managed to get like freaking Irony Singleton back into a T-Dog episode, that would have been amazing. Oh yeah. I think the fans would have loved that, you know, but that's so hard to do. Totally. Get these people back in, get Shane back in there, see him as a cop solving crimes or something. Yeah. Actually that was, that's a great idea. I think really fondly about those bottle episodes from the COVID ones.

[00:26:59] They were just, it was nice to see a show confident in itself to do something a bit different as well. Yeah. Like I feel like it really, I don't know, it really tied it over that kind of gap between the two seasons and what was happening. And yeah, they did some creative stuff. I think that Carol looking for the rat one is one of the lowest rated by the fans episodes of The Walking Dead. I loved it. I thought it was great. We loved it. We even got Karen to watch. We're like, Karen, there's a recipe. Yeah. There's a episode about soup. You'll love it. And she was like, I did love it. Yeah.

[00:27:29] Because in my opinion, that episode, what it did that was so great was it very much lowered the stakes from what we're used to in The Walking Dead and showed how Carol's character still comes through even in these lowered stakes. And so it was a character piece around her. Like she's still obsessive about things even when it's like just trying to get her fucking soup made or whatever it was. Well, and there was the Aaron and other games. Yeah, that was a great one. Yeah. Great one. Absolutely.

[00:27:59] Way more comedy than usual. His falling in the mud and stuff. Like such a different character than he is now. We're in the middle of six. So he's a total douche bag right now. That's one of the weirdest bits of the rewatch is revisiting times when you're in the middle of six. When you hated people who you later like. It's like, oh. Or liking people who you later hate. You're like, oh, oh, oh, oh. That's funny. So you're running out of closet space. The good news? You don't need to stop shopping.

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[00:29:22] For both of you, what are one or two highlights that stand out of being a part of this over the years? Well, I mean, personally and selfishly, the success of our podcast has been, as I said at the beginning, a little surprising, but ultimately has been a highlight. So that's pretty fun. You know, millions of downloads is just, I still can't believe it sometimes.

[00:29:47] But aside from that, I mean, the experiences that doing this podcast has afforded us. We got to visit Tsunoy in Georgia, lots of other filming locations. We've met a huge chunk of the cast over the years, hosting panels at Walker Stocker Con, meeting you guys. Like just all of that stuff has been something I never even considered when we started recording. And it's been an absolute highlight. It's been so much.

[00:30:16] And then meeting so many like fans and listeners and other podcasters and all that has just been super great. So, you know, that's almost the most fun part about it. Sitting down and recording and watching the episodes, like, that's great. We love doing that too. That's like the job of it. And then all this other stuff has been the sort of fun part of it. I can't believe I've got to travel to Atlanta, New York, Chicago, London, maybe somewhere else.

[00:30:46] San Francisco. Oh, well, San Francisco, of course. Yeah. You know, for a podcast I do. That is so weird. Yeah. And like to think that there's a billion podcasts in the world and I got to do this, all that because of mine. And that's fun and totally a highlight. Yeah. Podcasts can mean some really fun things. That's one thing I definitely learned. Yeah, absolutely. And like things I would never do.

[00:31:12] Like I was on stage with Danai Gurira and Chandler Riggs in front of 4,000 people. I'm like, oh my God, I still can't believe I did that sometimes, you know? Right. That's incredible. Yeah, there would be times when I'd be on stage and just suddenly feel like, how did I get here? Yeah, what is going on? Why am I up here with the cast of Battlestar Galactica? That's so weird. It's so crazy. There's Katie Sackhoff right there. What about you, Lucy?

[00:31:41] Oh, I mean, yeah. I mean, the travel has been amazing. And it's, I went to my first con down in London, Walker Stalker Con, that's where I met Jason. Oh, yeah. Chris, I think you were there as well, actually, maybe in the second year that we were all there. Yeah. It strikes me as I'm thinking about it that podcasting really gave me like an anchor during the pandemic. Like that was a huge thing was like we were putting out a lot of content and we were getting a lot of contact from people.

[00:32:11] And I think in retrospect, that was actually a huge part of what made those months bearable was having that thing to do and to talk to people and to keep producing something that made people feel a bit better or a bit different about, you know, the situation they were in. It's always so nice when people tell us that, like you help me feel better. It's just amazing. Yeah. When they say you help me feel worse, that happens too. That's not as good.

[00:32:39] But because at that point I was living overseas, I was really far from home and having like contact with people that I'd known before and that I've known since has been really helpful. And yeah, I think the trip to San Francisco was wonderful. Having you guys in Scotland was amazing. That was cool.

[00:32:55] There was a moment in San Francisco where a listener who I won't name, but I like very much told me that they suffer from a lot of chronic pain and that one of the things that makes them feel better and feel seen and feel supported is listening to the podcast. And that really, really touched me because I've been, I've been both the listener and the presenter in that situation. And that really, it made me feel like we're not just spaffing off into microphones. Yeah.

[00:33:25] There's nowhere. People listen. We're doing something right somehow. Yeah. I know. It interests me that there are people out there who we will never know about who listen to this religiously. And so thank you if you're one of those people, like it doesn't matter if you never write in the fact that you're listening and the fact that you're letting us be in your ears for a bit is really, really cool. It is.

[00:33:44] And I always mention that I started this because I was really into the Jay and Jack lost podcast for years and they, you know, inspired a lot of the way that Karen and I decided to do this. And I never once wrote into them or called in or anything. So if I know there's a lot of people out there who are the same.

[00:34:04] I have a similar experience, Lucy, like men, many, many people have written in to say, you know, help you, you guys helped me through a difficult time or whatever, or I was stuck after an accident or a surgery or whatever. And I listened to you guys and it helped the time pass or whatever. And I just feel so, I don't know, I'm just, I'm surprised.

[00:34:26] And, and I'm just so happy that this little thing we can do can help people in some kind of way, you know, and I hear that and it's surprising and great. Pretty cool. I can't be pretty cool. I will say, especially post season seven, episode one, where apparently everyone else in the world stopped watching it. But you know, the people that kept listening to us, we got you, even if your friends don't want to talk about it, we want to talk about it. And that's important. That's right. Absolutely.

[00:34:51] And for me, the highlights are like a lot of the stuff you mentioned, Chris, really, what I'm so happy about is that my favorite thing is still just like, the prep is interesting, but sitting down to actually do the podcast is still a ton of fun. And, and, and, and I do so many, you know, I do multiples a week and Lucy's a freaking blast to talk to.

[00:35:17] And like, I never thought of myself as a very good collaborator before all of this, but now it's so much fun to start a new show and bring in hosts that I think are perfect for it. Cause they love it so much. And then to have that different dynamic show up different, you know, and see what it's going to be like. And, and then to have the listeners, the engagement with the listeners, just all of that is, is so much fun.

[00:35:43] And sometimes even disagreeing is fun when you spar a little bit about things, you know, it's all just so much fun. Sure. It's, it's amazing. I mean, I've podcasted with Jason the whole time, right? I, you know, occasionally when, well, when his son was born, you know, we had other people on just to fill in once in a while. Um, but I've been on every single episode we've ever done. And then of course the stuff I've done with, with you, um, is really the only other evil dad. Yeah. It's the only other podcasting experience I have.

[00:36:13] And you're right. It's a little different, but it's all exciting and fun to do. And, you know, I, I am grateful for all of it. So, um, what's what, let's talk about the rewatch a little bit before we wrap up. Um, I want to know if you saw, I mean, to me, we were like, okay, let's get, we said we were going to do rewatch. Let's start it. See what it's like. Maybe we'll do like four episodes at once.

[00:36:41] We'll just breeze through, but I'm just finding myself really digging in. And, and I think one reason is after all these years of podcasting, I've just become more analytical and really gotten into the details more than I did when we started. And, um, and I'm discovering things, new things and seeing through lines that I didn't notice before.

[00:37:05] And I wonder if you saw anything different this time around, if there's anything surprising in how you perceived it this time or not. You know, I, I was thinking about this and I will say I'm, I'm really enjoying rewatching it. Cause I mentioned earlier, like it's been a long time since I've spent any time thinking about these episodes. And I haven't ever rewatched very much of the walking dead actually since. Me neither. Over the years. Right.

[00:37:33] Like I've seen the pilot five or six times for various reasons, but there's all kinds of episodes throughout the seasons that I've only watched. Like three times when you first podcasted and then not since. Right. That's how it was for me. Or twice. My, um, my process for that was I, every single episode I'd watch once just sitting and watching it like anybody else, like a fan. And then a second time to make notes. And that's when we'd podcast. Pretty much. That was basically it. But watching now. Sorry to interrupt you.

[00:38:00] Am I right in thinking Jason is the same on your pod? He, he hasn't gone back and rewatched anything before this rewatch. No, he hasn't. And he's a notorious rewatcher of shows too. He'll, he'll watch shows over and over and over again, except for this one. Um. Interesting. Yeah. And he also only watches the episode one time. He doesn't, he doesn't make a lot of notes. He just watches it and then kind of has some thoughts, relies on me to keep us going. And he just. He's like.

[00:38:31] He brings what he brings. Yeah, exactly. Amazing. I'm the play by play and he's the color commentary guy. Um, I think it works, but, uh, you know, um, as far as the rewatch goes now, I think the show, even though I thought it was good before and I liked it, I think it feels even better to me now. I'm, I'm like as a better show, not just that I'm enjoying it more, but even it's a better show than I thought it was at the time. Same thing here. I already thought it was really good. I totally agree. Yep. You know?

[00:39:01] And, and I could be, um, it may be sucked in by the nostalgia of it a little bit. I tend to get sucked in by nostalgia. Um, but, but, and I, and I know where things are going and so I'm better able to say, watch an episode and think, oh, this does kind of ladder up to where I know this character's going to end up. Right. Yeah. And so you can see the whole picture a little bit better.

[00:39:26] And, um, and so I, I think, I think I like it even more the second time, which I might not have predicted either, you know? That helped me appreciate it more because I'm exactly where you are is, is the, the spinoffs, which have been so varied in quality. I mean, even fear of the walking dead has had some amazing episodes. I gotta say, but like, yeah.

[00:39:50] And even later on, there were a few here and there, but, um, uh, mostly not, but, uh, the Daryl show, I liked the Daryl show a lot, maybe more than most people. I think it's so fun and beautiful and interesting the way he works art and European culture in, and then also it's got this kind of a John Wick, like, you know, light adventure vibe to it. That's really fun.

[00:40:15] But that also makes me appreciate the walking dead in its groundedness where moments are more impactful. Character matters more relationships are deeper and little tiny things seem to matter more deaths. Absolutely seem to matter more like fucking his girlfriend died and Daryl and he barely even blinked. And, uh, so it's like that kind of thing as I'm doing the rewatch, I realized, wow, I'm

[00:40:42] really like more so invested that that's a sign of a well done show when you feel that so invested and you can feel moved by things more than other shows that are just more adventures, you know, like the Negan show. I don't ever feel moved watching that. Dead City? Yeah. Yeah. The Daryl Lickson show, I definitely like more than Dead City, but there's even things about that show that I enjoy watching. I do too, yeah.

[00:41:10] You know, I am kind of looking forward to the next season of that coming up, but, uh, you know, a problem with long running shows sometimes is they, they try to outdo themselves a little bit, right? Yeah. Yeah. Get bigger and more exciting or whatever. They try to like over surpass what they've, what they've, uh, done in the past. And I mean, the walking dead suffers from that a little bit, maybe, you know, Daryl Dixon going to France and all the things he's been through is sort of an example of that.

[00:41:40] But you're also absolutely right. Like, what was her name? Isabel, his girlfriend dies and like move right on, you know, that's it. And plus he'll just go through and shoot a bunch of people without knowing for sure their situation. And Daryl, current Daryl would never do that. He's the one telling Rick to simmer down and then suddenly he's John Wick. So to me, I've, I have to sort of switch gears and be like, okay, this isn't the same kind of show. Otherwise I'm going to be like, you're a fucking monster, dude. You know?

[00:42:10] Yeah, sure. But you know, Daryl's also the example I was thinking about, uh, when I was looking at doing this rewatch and watching his character and where he started being really closed off the people. And, uh, you know, we're just recently passed sort of in the just post prison area or, or, you know, yeah, post prison area, I guess. And there's a couple of episodes where he's just stuck with Beth. Right.

[00:42:36] And I kind of forgotten about those episodes, but they get through it and he opens up to her and he, you can already see, I think seeds of Daryl changing into a guy who would want to go out of his way to help Laurent, the kid from the Daryl Dixon show and connect with him and stuff like that. Where season one, Daryl, you don't see that at all. So that makes me appreciate this, this original show even more because I just feel like they,

[00:43:06] they, they, they've tied it all together better than they, than you'd think or better than you could see it the first time around. I agree. Yeah. I see through lines a lot more now in characters. I mean, um, I'm keeping an eye on Morgan right now. Cause I remember there was a lot of flip-flopping. So I want to see, I feel like that might be an area where they stumbled a little bit, but I don't know. Like, yeah, I'm the same as you. I'm appreciating things a lot more on second watch thinking it's better than I remembered it being.

[00:43:34] I wonder about Morgan. I'm, I'm, uh, who knows? I don't see myself ever watching fear again as part of a rewatch. You're not going to do the continue on with fear when you're done with the walking dead rewatch. Yeah, I don't think so. No. Just kidding. Yeah. No. Yeah. That's what, that's another thing. Like going through the rewatch, you know, the first time you see Glenn on screen, you're like, Oh, Glenn dies. You can't help but have that in your head. Right.

[00:44:04] And when you see Morgan, you're like, Oh, Morgan goes on fear. Oh, it's worse. It's worse. It's worse. I'd rather he be dead. Oh, to die a noble death like Glenn rather than go to fear. But, uh, one thing real quick before I forget is, uh, one thing about dead city is they're bringing in Seth Hoffman as showrunner. I'm sure you guys know that, right? He was a writer on the walking dead during, I think seasons four through six.

[00:44:32] So I wonder if they want to give it that more grounded feel, you know, that he helped give the walking dead. I don't know. We'll see. We'll find out. Yeah. Well, let's see what else. Um, I wanted to know in particular, if you, what you thought about Rick's story arc, because we've talked about that a lot in the rewatch and I feel like Rick is pretty much

[00:45:00] the spine of the show, at least up until he leaves in season nine. And if you, what is your sense of his story arc? You know, Rick is the protagonist of this show amongst, uh, a group of protagonists, I would say, but he's the main guy. And, um, someone asked me once if, if Rick is my favorite character on the show, this was a long time ago. Someone asked me this.

[00:45:28] And at the time I actually wasn't sure because I like a lot of these characters, but I think overall, I mean, favorite is difficult to define, but like, I think overall he is really amazing. And at the beginning, you know, I guess he represents a guy with, um, rule of law, man, right? He's a police officer and he's ethical and moral, but he's all about following the rules of law, the law, which then all goes out the window.

[00:45:58] And he becomes more about doing what he has to do to protect those he loves. And that's the, a huge theme of the show, right? That it always has been for a lot of the characters. And that's kind of one of the ways he, he changes, I guess, over the course of the show.

[00:46:21] Um, and you know, maybe that's not that surprising really, because he's thrust into a very different circumstance than the normal world pre apocalypse. And you kind of have to do that, but, um, he, he starts questioning. That's right. Can he live with himself after doing all these terrible things and stuff like that? And, uh, I think eventually he can, you know, and he, he gets to a point where it's, he's

[00:46:50] willing to blow himself up on a bridge to save the people that he's trying to protect, right? Sacrificing himself all together entirely. So, um, he goes from being, we don't kill the living Rick to biting a guy's neck out and killing saviors in their sleep and doing all things kind of things like that to just, uh, protect those that he thinks of as his family.

[00:47:18] I, I pretty much, yeah, I agree with all that. There's one kind of big nuance that I would add to it, which I see him as starting out feeling like he has responsibility for protecting everyone as a cop, right? He, he, he, that's why he's a cop. I think because he just has this urge to protect everyone. And that's why he goes to get Merle off the roof because that's just who he is.

[00:47:47] He, even though Merle's an asshole who kind of got himself in that space, Rick has to go and save him even leaving his family. And then over time, after getting just brutalized and betrayed and suffering loss, his, what I call a circle of care closes in. And so it's not the whole world anymore. It's Carl and these people that he's met and trust Glenn and you know, everybody, but, um,

[00:48:13] new people, he doesn't trust or care about as much anymore. He would even sacrifice them more easily. Like with the Alexandrians, he'll be like, if they straggle behind, just let him go, you know? And, uh, he would never say that about anybody that he really cared about, cared about. And so then he gets to the place where he's telling his people to kill people in their sleep. And I, we're coming up on that. So maybe something will reveal itself that I didn't notice before, but I just remember

[00:48:43] feeling pretty critical of that because he doesn't know anything about the saviors or whether the people are forced to do what they're doing or what their situation is. And so, um, I think he gets to a pretty dark place. There's one time where they just see someone, a stranger, and he starts shooting at them and it turns out to be someone from the kingdom. And I'm like, what kind of a person are you? And then I, but I think this is a good storytelling because you want your characters to, uh, struggle

[00:49:12] and have challenges and, and maybe not live up to their potential and then to grow from that place. So I feel like he kind of goes into a dark place and then he starts to come out of it when he decides to jail Negan instead of kill him. That's a big turning point. That's because of this letter that Carl wrote to him saying, you know, we have to live together with these people and things like that. And it changed his mindset and then, yeah, he sacrifices himself.

[00:49:38] And then when he goes off to the CRM, uh, he kind of falls back into this space of, uh, sort of, I, we have to kill to protect people, but then Michonne comes in and sets him right and teaches him, you know, you got to open your heart back up again. So I guess to simplify it, it's the story of a man who his heart kind of closed down a little bit because of the trials and tribulations that he went through. He always would do anything to protect the people that he loved. And that's his one solid characteristic that he never lost. He never had any fear.

[00:50:07] He had a lot of honorable characteristics all the way through or impressive anyway, but he did get to a dark place where he was a danger to people who he didn't know, I would say. And I think by the end he came out of that and learned, um, how to be more compassionate person again. So that's the way I see his arc. It's going to be a weird comparison, but when you were talking about that, I, I started thinking about a trailer for the man of steel movie that I, the Superman movie from whenever the hell that was while years ago. Yeah.

[00:50:37] Yeah. And there was a trailer for that where, Oh, you're talking to Zack Snyder one. Not, yeah. Not James. Yeah. Man of steel. Yeah. So, um, teenage Clark Kent in the trailer is in a school bus with his classmates and they go off a bridge or something like that. And they're going into the water and he saves them because he has superpowers. And then some of the other kids on the bus, see what he did. And later in the trailer, you see him talking to his dad and he's like wrestling with this and he goes, what was I supposed to do? Just let them die.

[00:51:07] And his father, Pa Kent goes, maybe. Yeah. And at the time I was like, Oh my God, that is so deep. If the movie is going to wrestle with that question, this might be a really good movie. But when you were talking about Rick's like circle of, of care closing in, like, I think one of the most interesting things about him and any character like that is like the decisions that go into, uh, not helping people that aren't as close to him and stuff like that. Right.

[00:51:35] And, um, he had to struggle with that a lot. Rick did. And, um, you're right. He went sort of on a roller coaster a little bit up and down of, of how he approaches that. And his, his superpowers are like leadership and decision-making and so on. And he struggled with all of that. Right. As he went through life. But also tactical strategy, knowing how to handle himself, you know, in violent situations, stuff like that. He's fucking badass. And shoot.

[00:52:05] He's my favorite character. Shoot that Rick Grimes gun. I forget what they call it now. What do they call it? The Python. The Python. Yes. Yeah. I love the way he angles it down. Like he's bearing down on whoever he's. Yeah. He'd never hit anybody with that, but he'd shoot into the ground a lot, you know, but what do I know? I'm Canadian. I don't know anything about guys. So, um, I guess let's end by, I want to know where you see this whole journey ending.

[00:52:33] Uh, once you do the fear, the walking dead rewatch, then after that, no, once, once you're done with the rewatch and what if all the spinoffs are done, then what? Well, that's a really good question. Um, we're going to finish the rewatch. We're dedicated to doing that. And our mandate has always been, we will always cover anything that comes out in the walking dead universe. So any show or whatever, we'll just do it and we'll watch it and we'll podcast about it. Right.

[00:53:01] Um, and of course we've expanded a little bit over the years with the last of us and fallout and things like that. I'd say we like officially covered those shows. Uh, but otherwise that, that was it. So right now we, we don't know when the last season of Daryl Dixon is coming, although I don't think it's going to be too far off. We don't know when the next season of dead city is coming and I don't know if it's the last one or not.

[00:53:27] So there's not much on the horizon, but we will be around to do them when they do. And so there's no, there's no end game in, in the plan. It's sort of like the beginning, like where you would just come on whenever something came up about the walking dead. I like to try and try and keep the schedule fairly consistent. It's been hard lately.

[00:53:50] Um, and we've had to juggle like when last of us and the last season of Daryl Dixon or whatever it was, was on at the same time. I think that was what the overlap was. Yeah. We had to figure that out, but we always prioritize walking dead cause that's just what we do and who we are. But unless AMC comes along and goes, that's it, we're done. The walking dead universe is, is over. Uh, I think we're going to keep going.

[00:54:15] Um, but you never know, maybe not quite as frequently, but for now it's the, it's the rewatch and we still got long, long way to go. Regular. Yeah. Yeah. You guys are doing two at a time and you're coming up on the end of season four. Is that right? That's right. We've got, uh, a couple more in season four. Um, it's funny doing two at a time. It in some ways feels like we're going through it really quick. Uh, but I like that cadence. I like the two episodes at a time rather than just, just one.

[00:54:45] Um, but if we were to do three or four at a time, that would be too much. So I think we found our sweet spot. We've said, once we get into season seven and eight, we might end up doing that because it's a slog, but we'll have to see. That's right. Seven, eight, nine, maybe a little bit. Appreciate those more than we did the first time too. You know what? Maybe. I bet you will. I bet you will. I bet I will too. Um, but those are the notoriously slower episodes. Yeah.

[00:55:14] I have a lot of anxiety about season seven, episode one. I feel like. Really? Anyway, it'll be fine. It'll be great. It'll be fine. Do you feel like you want to be on that podcast though? Just to. I think so. Jason's just got his calendar. He's like, can I just check for getting guests that week? Yeah. No, no. I would like to revisit it. I would like to revisit it. My guess would be that you would want to, but I didn't know what you would say. Yeah. I don't know. It's going to be weird going back in.

[00:55:37] I think like what we were talking about earlier with what the experience of rewatching has been like there, the joy of it. I think Chris, you articulated it really well with like seeing Daryl develop as a character. Like I appreciate Norman Reedus a lot more on this rewatch. Yeah. Because I didn't like him at first. I thought he was a dick. And then I was like, why does everybody like this asshole? And then I started, okay, I see that he's a good guy now, but he's like kind of acts too cool for school, I used to say.

[00:56:08] And then I loved him in the final seasons when Angela King came on. And then I loved him in the Daryl show. And that just, when I've done the rewatch, I see him in a whole new light. I'm just like, oh, Daryl, he's the best. Yeah. But the pain of it is knowing the end, I think for a lot of people. And I do find it hard to watch Glenn in any meaningful way. I don't think anything will really change that for me. Like I enjoy him when we have him.

[00:56:33] But especially this in season six, knowing that we're like so close to something really horrible happening. I just think about all his Oscars. I know. I mean, no one can look at Steven Yeun and be like, oh, that guy just, he fucked it, man. He should have stayed in The Walking Dead. Like, no, he's doing great. And he's superb. But it is just that thing of like, oh. Yeah. I know. Coleman Domingo too. He's another one where you're just like, way to go, man. He's kicking ass. Oh, he's smashing it. He's smashing it.

[00:57:03] Such a huge movie star now, that guy. I'm so happy for him. Yeah. It's amazing. Just unbelievable, like, unbelievable charisma on that guy. Unbelievable. Yeah. I got to do a couple panels with him and it was really fun. He was a blast. I never understood why he stayed on fear. I was like, but you're so good. I know, as long as he did. You're so good. Is someone blackmailing you Coleman? Blink twice if you need help. Like, what is going on here? Yeah. So I think it is. It is.

[00:57:29] I'm enjoying the rewatch process way more than I thought I might because I just wasn't sure how I would feel about some bits and pieces of it. But yeah, there is that blessing and curse of sort of seeing how the path is laid out. It makes some things all the clearer and all the better. And then some other things just hurt more. Yeah. Like, it's just the truth, isn't it? You know, that's why we shouldn't know how life will turn out because it will ruin it for us. So there's a lot of things wrapped up in there.

[00:57:58] I mean, there's also just the joy of anticipating the cool episodes coming up, you know, and like the whole Terminus thing and whatever else. And characters we will not yet meet for many seasons, you know, like Princess. Jesus is coming up. Jesus is coming. I'm excited. And Chris, you mentioned, you know, you do, you focus you. The Last of Us and Dead City came on at once. You decided to focus on Dead City because you're Walking Dead at your heart.

[00:58:26] And that's I forgot to mention it at the top, but you might have noticed that we're now called the Walking Dead cast again. And that's because I had the same realization a while back that, you know, we thought we were going to be a Last of Us podcast, but we were wrong. We're still a Walking Dead podcast. We'll still cover The Last of Us. But yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's if you've come home, you've come home to your original name, your original form. I like it. We're back, baby. Yeah, there you go. We went out, we bought a house, but we couldn't afford the rent. So no, I'm just kidding.

[00:58:57] Pedro wouldn't return our calls. We really have a lot of people. No, I'm very much looking forward to season three of that show. All right, Chris, that was a really great conversation. Thank you so much for coming on and talking about it. No problem, guys. Thanks so much for having me. It is great. Congrats again on 700. And are you going to come and guest with us on any of the rewatch? Is that weird? Is that crossing streams? Like, I don't know. You know, Jason and I have talked about it a little bit, but once you guys catch up,

[00:59:25] because you're doing two at once, maybe we can whatever episode we land on together, we could somehow do that all together and put it on both feeds or something like that. Maybe. Yeah, that was sort of my thought. But then we just got so derailed for a while and now we're struggling a little bit. So I do think we'll catch up at some point, but maybe we'll figure that out. Yeah, it'd be great. Yeah, you will. It'd be fun. All right. Well, thanks, guys. Cheers. Cheers. Bye, everyone.

[01:00:01] All right. Let's move along to the business of the day, which is The Walking Dead Season 6, Episode 8, Start to Finish. Would you like to read the plot summary? I would love to. The plot summary is, with the wall breached, walkers invade Alexandria. Rick, Michonne, Carl, Gabriel, and Diana take refuge in Jessie's house. They discover Diana has been bitten. Carol takes shelter in Morgan's house and discovers Denise treating the captured wolf. Carol attempts to kill the wolf, but Morgan stops her only to be immediately knocked out

[01:00:31] by the wolf, who takes Denise hostage and escapes. Succumbing to infection, Diana stages the last stand as Rick's group disguise themselves as walkers and maneuver through the walker horde. In a post-credits scene, which I forgot was in it and had to rewatch today, Daryl, Abraham, and Sasha are confronted by the saviors, who tell them that all of their possessions now belong to Negan. Oh yeah, I watched that post-credits scene. Yeah, I totally did. No, I didn't watch it.

[01:01:00] I didn't even know it was in there until you just read that. I was like, what? On my first watch, I was like, okay, and then I read the IMDb stuff and I was like, huh? And then I went back and I was like, oh, okay, yeah, there's post-credits. Yep. Okay, cool. I need to watch that. Imagine if we just rewatched everything, but we cut all the Negan scenes from it. Oh, let's do that for the rewatch. We'll be skipping season seven and eight. There are probably a couple little scenes in there. Season seven, episode one is like a breeze. It's like not much happens. It's nothing. It's nothing.

[01:01:31] I was just thinking, I wonder, I shouldn't jump ahead to this. I don't mean to go deeply into it, but what if Carol broke into the basement and then got in a fight with Morgan and the wolf gets out and kills everybody? Is that kind of her fault? Because he was locked up down there. I don't know. And I was thinking about this with Ron as well. I was like, does everyone die because of Ron? Like I was like, cause I was like, cause they could have waited it out, but Ron decides he wants to kill Carol. Cause I totally forgot when that happened.

[01:02:00] But I'm not, I'm not just saying that, um, uh, is it her fault? Like does something happen and it's her fault? But I mean, just philosophically, he was fine down there and then you had to go in and now he's out killing people. It's sort of ironic if that's what happens, but I don't think he does kill anybody. I can't remember. I can't remember how that played out at all. I'd completely forgotten this even happened. So, um, I will be pleasantly surprised when I find out. Me too. Yep. I'm, I'm, yeah.

[01:02:28] If I remember right, which I don't, uh, he doesn't kill anybody, but we'll see. So what did you think about this one? Oh, I enjoyed it. As is probably evident from what I've just said, there was a whole bunch I'd completely forgotten. Um, yeah, I, I was disappointed when it ended. I was like, oh no, I want to watch the next one. Like, I mean, this whole, like maybe half of season six is kind of like one really long movie, but in particular, this one felt like, oh, we're only seeing a part of the story. We need to see the rest of the story.

[01:02:58] I do feel like it ends in an odd place. If you've read the comics, I think it's quite a good place to end because you know that people aren't getting out of that line, but it felt weirdly anticlimactic in some ways. Like, I don't know. I mean, it's obviously your, your, uh, tension is up because obviously Sam is talking and you're like, oh shit, that can't end well. Yeah. But I had it in my head that the episode ended with Carl turning around with his eyes shot out and saying, dad. So I was like, oh, we're done now. Yeah. Right. Okay. Me too.

[01:03:27] I didn't, I don't know if I thought that exactly was going to happen, but I thought more was going to happen, but just sort of judging it on his own. I mean, you're right. Like him saying, mom, mom. Then you're like, oh fuck. And then it ends. It's like, it is, it's an okay cliffhanger, but it was odd. It doesn't help that Jesse is fully blanking him. She's not even responding. She's just like, I know. I know. Um, I, I like this episode a lot.

[01:03:54] It, it, it, this episode really stands out to me when I think of early Alexandria, like as soon as we got to Alexandria, I just remembered, oh yeah, the zombies are going to get in there. And, um, there's so many and I still find it thrilling the zombie stuff. And then of course I remember everything with Sam a lot, but the, the, um, this time, another thing that stood out was something I had completely forgotten about, which is how inspirational

[01:04:23] Deanna was. I loved her scenes and I don't, I don't have any memory of any of that. So, uh, it's probably the first time during the rewatch where something I'd completely forgotten is now one of my favorite parts of the episode. Yeah. I'm with you on that. I thought Deanna's final kind of hurrah was just incredible. Um, I really, really enjoyed that. And the way Tova Felca played it added a lot to that. Oh, that roar at the end? Live every day like you're Deanna, man.

[01:04:53] Like it was incredible. Yeah. Really, really cool. She was a real treasure to have on the show. I'm sad that she's kind of done now. Yep. Yep. She's done. Um, one more little appearance I remember next week. She, I feel like she insisted on that. If, if my memory is correct, I think she really wanted to come back as a zombie. Yeah. That's cool. Cause I remember when I was doing panels, a lot of times I would ask the actors about, you know, do you wish you could be a zombie?

[01:05:20] And they're all like, no, because I guess they're thinking of it from a character place where, you know, they would never want that to happen. But, um, as a zombie fan, I was always like, I mean, yeah, I did. I went on the show and became a zombie because I wanted to, you know, it's cool. I love it. I always love, especially cause it's something about the actors. There's something so goofy about being a zombie. And I just love when they do that. They just kind of throw caution to the wind and they're like, yeah, let's do it. I mean, it's a zombie show. Exactly.

[01:05:49] I thought it was weird that not more characters became zombies in the show. Yeah. Agree. So what do you want to talk about first? I'm going to talk about what I didn't like so much in this episode. And honestly, I found the Morgan and Carol stuff quite annoying. I just, it's just that we've just been around the houses with these arguments so often.

[01:06:14] And I really, I think I really understand one thing I will say is this episode. I think it really, my reading of why Carol is so intent on killing and proving that that's the right thing to do is that killing people has taken so much out of her. That if someone was to turn around and say, actually, there's another way of doing this that would have worked that didn't involve killing people.

[01:06:40] That's like a horrifying thing to think and feel that you didn't have to do the things. Oh, I didn't have to kill Lizzie. Oh, oh God. Yeah. That makes me even worse person than I thought I was. Yeah. Because we've all done that. Like when we've done something like a bit shitty or something. Yeah, we've killed our friends. But like when you've chosen a way of doing something that you're not loving and then you see someone else who's done something in a way that you sort of wish you could have done but you didn't. There's a lot of self-hatred with that.

[01:07:08] And if you amplify that up to the level of like I've killed someone and I didn't have to. It reminds me of like when people get defensive about like an example might be like eating meat. So like if I eat meat at the moment, I kind of I also don't buy you meat at the moment. But then sometimes if I'm around someone who is vegan and is really good at it and it doesn't bother them and they're fine. I get really defensive. I'm like, oh, you must think I'm shit then. You must think I'm a shit person. I don't say this, but I feel it. I'm like, oh, God, well, they can do it.

[01:07:37] I can't do it. Oh, my God, I'm so crappy. Eating meat is yeah, that's that's that comes up for me a lot because. I see the world is a very judgmental place and perhaps even more judgmental with the polarized nature of things in recent decades or years at least. And I think about that where, OK, here I'm doing this thing that people could look at me and go, you're a murderer. And I just sort of go.

[01:08:06] I'm like, I don't want to think about that, you know. And so then that helps me realize that all these people that we judge, maybe we could give them a little grace to like the grace that we hope we get for doing certain things. Yeah, like when I sit with it, I I hate the fact I eat meat. I hate it. I hate the idea that something has suffered and being killed for something that I eat. And like I struggle with that and I go back and forth on it. This is not the same as killing people, particularly killing children. But it is a thing that I think it's close, though.

[01:08:36] Yeah. Well, it's a it's a thing that doesn't sit harmoniously with the values that I otherwise hold. And with Carol, I think that the franticness she has in this episode is she's desperate to prove that her way of doing it is right. Morgan's stupid and she she everything she did was deserved. She's like barely hanging on sanity wise at this point. So in that sense, I liked it because I feel like, oh, I understand this better now. On the other hand, I'm like, oh, this is kind of taking me out of it a bit.

[01:09:05] I don't super care about this storyline. I didn't enjoy seeing Carol and Morgan physically fight, particularly given that Carol's like come from a sort of domestic violence background. I just didn't love seeing that level of. She did better than you'd think, though. She held her own for a little bit, but then he knocked her out. Yeah. The bit where he kind of threw on the ground, I was like, oh, that's tough to watch. I just. Yeah. You can't blame him, though. Kim comes at him with a knife. Yeah. She was coming at him with a knife. They were in a fight.

[01:09:34] It's not like he just turned around and threw her to the ground. He's like, OK, I'll kill. I'll kill. Yeah. I'll do it. I'll do it. The stuff with Denise and the wolf I found fairly interesting. I like spending more time with Denise. I like Merritt Weaver a whole bunch. And I think the guy that plays the wolf, I hope he went on to do loads of like creepy theater or off-Broadway stuff because he's very good.

[01:09:56] But I just it just didn't really do it for me overall because I think I can see that they're both going to be sort of tussling with these issues for the next while. And it's a point for both of their characters where I'm like, ugh, is this kind of, is this it? But then I remember they are the two that go to the kingdom and have some interesting character development there. So I'm looking forward to that.

[01:10:19] I thought the wolf, his monologue about sort of nihilistic monologue about nothing is unfair anymore was quite interesting. It's like that idea of like we've gone back to nature and it's just is or isn't, die or don't, things happen, nothing is unfair. Like I thought that's quite an interesting perspective. But then, of course, he's evil and takes Denise and runs away anyway. So, you know, here's the end of that kind of storyline.

[01:10:48] So I'm interested to see how it ends because I genuinely can't remember. But also, I was more interested in the other storylines that were happening, if I'm being honest. So, yeah, I was kind of glad that we weren't there the whole episode. I think one thing that helped me not feel like it's just, you know, going over the same argument again is because it was the confrontation between Morgan and Carol that's been building all season. And here's like the climax of it.

[01:11:17] And, you know, like they have such opposite views of the world. She thinks you need to kill to protect the people you love. He thinks all life is precious and you shouldn't even kill the worst person. And so now they're actually fighting it out. So it was sort of exciting. I mean, it's silly that you would go down. You would instigate that in the middle of a zombie attack. I almost don't believe that Carol would actually do that because it's a dumb idea.

[01:11:42] I cracked up as well when they were arguing of like the wolf chipped in and was like, no, everyone is evil or something like that. And I was like, whoa. It's so funny. You're not helping. I love it that, yeah, like Borg is like, we have him restrained, you know, he's not going to get away. And he's like, I would get away. And he's like, shut up, dude. I'm trying to help you here. They're having this like highfalutin moral argument and this little punk's just there. Like, I just want to get out and kill people. Like, is anyone going to let me do that?

[01:12:12] He's like, yeah, I'm going to kill more people. You should totally kill me. I mean, it's that thing about he's like just too perfect of the counterexample to Borg is like, that all life is precious as if it's some kind of philosophical thing. Well, what about with this guy? The worst guy ever. They could have done with Morgan round about Randall time. Like, Randall wasn't quite the worst guy ever. He wasn't great. But like, he wasn't this guy. No, he was far from it. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I don't know. I guess it turns out he was bad.

[01:12:41] I asked Angela King about that and she's like, yeah, he was a bad guy. I'm like, okay, okay. Anyways, I think you're right about Carol, like wanting to preserve a sense of herself as having done what needed to be done. But also, I do think that she just believes that's what needs to be done. She's like lost too much and she's like, fuck it. I'm not going to lose anymore. Or if there's a bad person, I'm not going to let him take my people anymore, you know? And then Morgan's coming in and just directly saying, actually, no. Yeah.

[01:13:11] Like, actually, no. Yeah, exactly. No, you don't have to do that. You don't have to do that. And as far as everything that this wolf is saying, I'm like, you know, normally I would try to analyze the hell out of it. But I can't because it doesn't totally make sense to me. It's a very unique way of looking at the world. But what I sort of dig about it the most is he's just so certain in what he's saying.

[01:13:35] And whatever his fucked up belief system is, it's led him to be like, I kill everyone and I'm very straightforward about it. So what are you going to do about it? And that's just kind of an interesting problem to have. It doesn't seem like this would ever really happen. He just doesn't seem like a real person to me. Although there are people who are radicalized. That's what he reminded me of. Someone who's radicalized. Like, oh, we have to kill now. Yeah, he's kind of you could see him being in the Manson cult or something. Right.

[01:14:05] He's just like, I've been won over by this. Like, yeah, there's a bit of dialogue with Morgan and Carol. That's like super simple, but basically sums up where Morgan says we can be better than them. Carol says we are better than them. Morgan says not if we kill. She says they made us kill. He says we had to stop it. She says I had to stop it. Like, it's, you know, it's well written. It's that same old argument, though. Same old, yeah.

[01:14:28] I mean, I don't like it, but if I had to pick a side here, I'd probably be on Carol's side, just given that this guy is saying, you know, I've killed and I'm going to keep killing and you should kill me. And they don't have a jail cell to put him in. That would make a difference to me. If only we knew what he was going to do. I'm going to kill you. No, shut up. It's almost like a comedy. We have no way of knowing. He's like, no, no, I'm going to go out there and murder everyone. And they're like, oh, no, shut up. No, we're having an argument late.

[01:14:58] But so I am a little bit on her side. That said, it's funny that she's screaming, I'm going to kill you to kill him because I don't want anyone else to die. It's just funny to hear. That made me laugh as well. I was like, oh, okay. And also, I can't help but think that while Carol is fighting to kill this guy, Sam and his family, I think are indirect victims of her. They're about to live their lives. And you could trace that back to her freaking out Sam to the point where he can't handle himself around these monsters. Yeah.

[01:15:28] Yeah. So anyway. Yeah. Every action has an equal opposite reaction, right? I'm also surprised that the wolf took Denise at knife point. Well, then he got the gun and he didn't just start shooting all of them. Seems like that's the kind of guy he would be to start killing them. But instead he took her off for some reason. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I really wish I could remember what happened, but I'm kind of glad I don't. Yeah. I don't. I don't. I don't want to remember. I want to find out.

[01:15:58] I'm the same way when Karen and I are doing severance on wax episodic and I have very little memory of what's coming up and I'm glad. Yeah. Has Merit Weaver turned up yet in your reaction? She's about to. Yeah. Yay, Denise. We just got Dylan, her husband, talking to her over the phone so we heard her voice. But yeah, she's coming up in the series. It'll be on two shows that I'm watching. She's great. All right. I'm going to talk about Deanna. Do it.

[01:16:26] Who I love how she conducted herself here, especially because she gets bitten, which sort of emphasizes maybe she was right when she was kind of hanging out outside the wall saying I'd be no good in there a couple episodes ago. But now she decides to go in and fight. And just the fact that you know she's going to die soon and she knows she's going to and then you see how she behaves, it really shows what she's made of.

[01:16:55] Like I think you can probably tell a lot about a person by how they act on their deathbed. Yeah. I agree. And it made me wonder if I'd just be like, get the fuck away from me, everybody. I don't care anymore. Meanwhile, she's like being all inspiring and everything. Leave me. Leave me to die. Like, yeah. So with Michonne, who has been looking for a place to settle that's more developed and civilized because she saw that they were becoming animals.

[01:17:24] I mean, Deanna is the perfect person for her to meet to help inspire her to continue on in that direction and tell her, you know, you figure out not only like I'm glad that you are looking at my plans and want to continue that, but also just looking at her and saying, but what do you want? I just thought that was really powerful. And maybe it helped her end up with Rick, you know, just having that.

[01:17:50] I think Deanna, like after this episode, I'm convinced that Deanna like A, fancies Rick and B, really wants Rick and Michonne to get together. I'm like, yeah, both of those things are now true to me. I'm like, okay. Yeah. She might as well have just said, you know, Jessie, I call her unnecessary. You should just like, don't worry about her. Let's just say I have a feeling she's not going to be around for long. Wink, wink. Wink, wink. And they're like. She was inspiring to me too.

[01:18:19] That whole thing about saying I got to do what I want. I'm lucky Michonne working with my family towards a better future is all I ever wanted. That's what I got. I got to do what I wanted right up to the end. That really hit me and it's corny, but I thought about podcasting and I'm lucky that I'm at least for now getting to do what I want. You know, it's great. And then Rick finds her hunched over baby Judith in her crib. Not her best moment. Not her best move. Yeah.

[01:18:47] But, you know, I just wanted to see her. One more time. One more time. Nope. You're smart sometimes, but when it comes to zombies, you don't understand clearly. And he like apologized for nearly, nearly axing her. And I'm like, I feel like that's on her. Yeah. I was like. Yeah. She's lucky. She had a few more moments left after that. Yeah. But then her conversation with Rick, I think gets to the heart of what I've been saying about him over the last couple seasons where she asked him to look out for Spencer.

[01:19:17] He says he will. Will you look out for him like you look out for your people? No answer. He's kind of a whang. Then she goes, guess what? They're all your people. They are. He goes, we haven't had a chance to make it that. Which I think he means I haven't gotten to know them well enough to feel connected to them yet. But he used to care about everyone, even who he didn't know. And she said, but that's how it is.

[01:19:44] I didn't run over here to help you out there because I like you or because I think you're a good man, a good father, or that you can grow one hell of a beard. I ran over to help because you're one of us. That's the right answer. So I just think she's saying, especially as a leader, you're responsible for protecting people, whether you have a personal connection with them or not. And she's trying to get him to expand that circle of care out again because she knows that he's, she must know that he's capable of it.

[01:20:13] She'd never seen it herself, but we have. I think so. Yeah. She's just a good judge of character, I think. She must also low-key know that her son's a bit of a dick, but yeah. No, I thought that was a good moment. Please care about my son. Please. Please. I know he's not easy to love, you know? He's not as bad as his brother or maybe he's worse. I don't know. Anyway. And then she wants to be the one to end her own life, which I respected. Oh yeah, for sure. She doesn't get to do that. She decides to kill some zombies first.

[01:20:45] And I guess the only other thing about this is losing her made it feel a lot more certain that, okay, yeah, Rick needs to take over. There's nobody else. Yeah. Yeah. You see that with like the way that Gabriel is with him in this episode. It's really funny because Gabriel does this really meaningful like, oh my God, I will not leave the line. And I'm like, he's not the one you need to be worried about right now. Like, yeah. I know. He's like, I will be there. I won't run away. And it's like, okay, yeah, that's cool.

[01:21:14] Someone else might though. Yeah. Because you want like, who's going to mess it up? Is it going to be the wolf jumping in or Gabriel's going to freak out? No. Yeah. It's the little kid. It's the little kid who just isn't prepped for this world at all and has been traumatized by Carol. Oy yi. All right. What else? I just want to build on your thing with Deanna. I loved, excuse my Latin, dollar hictibi proderit olum. Someday this pain will be useful to you.

[01:21:44] I thought that's a really, really nice way of looking at kind of life. And Deanna saying, coining the episode title, which I'm sure Steve will point out, that it was her life from start to finish. And she cocked it all up, but she figured it out. And I'm like, that's life. Do you think it would be a good idea while you're hurting someone to say that Latin phrase to them? Yeah. Someday this pain will be useful. They're like, no, it won't. You're like, okay, fair enough. Just kidding. Yeah. I really enjoyed that.

[01:22:14] But in terms of other things to talk about this episode, I'm just looking at the God. We cover quite a lot. We see quite a lot of people at different points here. I enjoyed Deanna's reaction to her bite as well. Well, shit. I thought that was very what you would actually say. And it clearly shakes everyone up. But what I will do is I will talk about Ron, who just fucks this up so badly this episode.

[01:22:44] Like things are, they're not great. Like it's not an easy situation. But I'd forgotten how much it escalates after Ron decides that he's going to take out his anger on Carl, who I think up until the point where they're fighting isn't exacerbating it. I think Carl's being really, really reasonable. And even at the end where he's like, your dad was an asshole. I'm sort of like, well, he kind of deserves that right now, to be honest, because he did just fuck things up majorly. And also he's not wrong.

[01:23:13] So yeah, Ron and Carl having their little fight in the garage. I wrote in my notes that this was the worst play day ever when Jesse and Rick are like banging on the door going like, what the fuck is happening in there? Open the door right now. I was like, yeah. But Carl, in an integrity move, despite the fact that Ron tried to kill him, got the zombies involved, doesn't help him while he's trying to keep the zombies out and reinforce the window. Did Ron cause that? I didn't get that.

[01:23:41] He's the reason why the zombies came in? He went for Carl and then he was going after him with the axe and then the axe shattered the window. Oh, okay. Because Carl got out of the way. I somehow missed that. Yeah. And he didn't help him. They leave the garage. They try to reinforce the doors. So they all come through that way because Ron did that? But then some, I don't understand what happens next. So it draws the walkers. There's more of them because of the noise. And then they come to the front door as well, which means that they're overruled. But the implication is if Ron hadn't done that, maybe they wouldn't have come in like that.

[01:24:11] I've never got that before. Yeah. So Carl lies to save Ron's ass. He says they were looking for tools and knocked over a shelf. Rick doesn't buy it for a second. Carl then does a very savvy move that is very like his dad where he goes and confronts Ron and gets the gun off of him. Yeah. Right away. Right away. And I'm like, Carl is coming into his own. He was a little psycho not that long ago. No. And now he is kind of doing the right thing here.

[01:24:37] I did also laugh briefly when someone said, they've knocked the sculpture over. The noise is drawing them nearer. I was like, oh, Jesse's crap. Owl sculpture got more people killed. I was like, that's what art will get you in the zombie apocalypse. So yeah, Ron is, he's not in a good place. He's lost his dad. His world is falling apart and he's blaming Carl for it. He thinks that Enid's dead.

[01:25:01] But it really, really exacerbates things and makes them worse in this point. And yeah, I found myself really quite frustrated by that. And yeah, they're walking out into the zombies at the end of the episode. I wonder how that's going to play out. It's hard to... Yeah, Ron seems a little bit psychotic. And he did lose his father.

[01:25:29] He was living in this world that seemed normal. And he had this cute girl that he was getting friendly with. And then these people arrived. And next thing you know, his father's dead. And the zombies that have left them alone for their whole lives are suddenly invading. And even though it's not logical, you could see how he might blame that on them. Yeah, absolutely. But he's at this point where like he says, I'm dead. It's like, okay, you think you're gone.

[01:25:58] And so you don't have anything left to lose. How do you respond to all that? And it's like, I'm going to kill everyone first. And it just reminds me of... I hate to even bring this up, but like school shootings that happen, you know? Like where kids just, I guess, feel like nothing matters. And so my response to it is going to be this lethal violence. And it's just heartbreaking. You know, it's awful.

[01:26:22] And I don't know when he said, I'm sorry to Carl after Carl took his gun, whether he really meant that. But I'm pretty sure he didn't because I think he does something else shitty next episode, right? Me too. I can't remember if it was delivered or not. So yeah. But I don't know if that was an accident or not. I still can't remember. But if he did mean it, then that would be sort of touching that. Because Carl kind of pulled a little bit of a Morgan there.

[01:26:52] He did a version of what Morgan is doing with the wolf. He let a threat to his life live by not telling on him or killing him, you know? Yeah. He chose to be like, this person just tried to hurt me, but I'm going to let him live. That's just like what Morgan's doing. And then maybe Ron really actually did appreciate that. But I don't know. I think he's, like I said, psychotic. He probably also scared his dad might kill Ron as well.

[01:27:22] I mean, I'm like, I wouldn't be a person. But anyway. Yeah, that's true. But also, I couldn't help, I keep bringing this up, but we're seeing Ron run from Zed's just as Austin Abrams, the actor, is about to star in Resident Evil. The first trailer for that just came out yesterday. It's creepy as hell. And I couldn't be more excited. Yeah, I was going to ask you about that. Yeah. That's good for him, man. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah. I wish him the best. He's like the main character.

[01:27:51] So hopefully it does well. Well, I have more about that in the new segment. Yeah. So I want to talk about Sam. Oh, we Sam. Sam, this is the opening I always think of when I think of Sam sitting in his little room surrounded by toys coloring while tiptoe through the tulips plays. And I'd actually forgotten when we first watched this that he hadn't come out of his room for days. But now we see what he's been doing in there.

[01:28:18] And, of course, he's drawn a picture of the very thing that Carol threatened him with. It's a beautiful picture. He's tied to a tree as what she called the monsters are about to tear him apart, eat him alive so he can feel it. And then I love that the ants, which are kind of like little zombies, have infiltrated covering his half-eaten cookie. It's just I thought it was a really artful opening.

[01:28:46] It's a metaphor for the horrors of the apocalypse infringing on this normal space. The Alexandrians are trying to lead normal lives, but they can't escape. Do you know what it super reminded me of, though, was the opening to The Grove with the kind of oldie-timey music, slightly surreal, like creepy. Yeah, I loved it. I was like, oh, this really sets the tone.

[01:29:12] Basically, Carol's going to have fucked something up for a child in this episode. Yeah, and you see Lizzie dancing outside with Griselda Gunderson. Yeah. Yeah, no, I thought this one was good, too, the whole thing. And then everybody burst in, and it was almost like it had the feeling of just some normal kid and all these characters from The Walking Dead burst into their room, you know, Michonne with her sword.

[01:29:38] And it felt like they came out of the TV and came into this kid's room. And then they have bloody Deanna there, and Jesse's saying, Sam, I need you to turn off the music and shut your blinds because of the monsters. Yeah. And he doesn't turn off the music, which I thought was weird because it was playing through the whole episode, even when they're, like, cutting into the guts and everything. That would drive me crazy. I'd be like, can someone put that fucking song off? I'm like, it's dangerous to have the music on.

[01:30:05] And she told him to turn it off, and he didn't, so why didn't she turn it off? And also, it's a record player, which you have to, when the song is over, reach over and manually put it back to the beginning. So maybe there's some record players that will automatically replay. I'm not sure. It's been so long. I can't remember. Did you ever, you probably never even dealt with that, did you? You're too young. The record player? Yeah. Yeah, no. Although they're very, like, our generation. That's what we had as a kid. Our generation. Like, most of my friends have, like, vinyl players.

[01:30:34] And I'm like, oh, yeah, I should really get one at some point. But, like, I also can't be bothered. Records get scratched, and then they don't sound as good. Then she says to him, just pretend you're somebody who's not scared. And I thought, you know, in a pinch, that was actually pretty good advice. But I also felt like maybe there was a tinge of judgment from her or disappointment. Can you pretend you're better than you are? Yeah, can you pretend not to be shit for, like, two seconds, mate?

[01:31:02] Like, can you just pretend to not be a little dickhead for two minutes? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know, right? Then when it's time to go, she's like, we're not safe here. We have to look like these monsters so they can get out and just pretend you're brave. And he said, okay. And she should have said, but maybe it makes sense that you wouldn't even think this needed to be said.

[01:31:30] But she should have said, and be quiet when you get out there, okay? Yeah. Because they respond to sound. And then when they go out and they're covered in guts and he's like, mom, mom. She should turn around and be like, shh. Shut up. Shut up. No talking. Like, no talking, mate. No talking. Remember that story Carol told you? It's going to come true if you don't shut the fuck up. Right.

[01:31:56] Because the thing is, we on Jess's area is kind of stepping up this episode. Oh, absolutely. She saves her asses at least once. I would even say, like, she's just fucking great. Like, the way she handled that one with her scissors. Here she's shooting people. She's not people. Zombies. Shooting zombies. She's bringing the people into her home to take shelter. When Rick's, like, about to put guts on her, she's like, I'll do it myself.

[01:32:21] Like, she is brave and a badass and would totally fit in with our crew if she had survived this part. And, yeah, she, like, let her kids, she kept Pete around. That's not good. And they were abusing her kids. And that's rough, man. I mean, Carol was in an abusive relationship, too, with Ed for a while, with Sophia, right? And freaking Gabriel left his parishioners out.

[01:32:50] If we're going to forgive them, then I would forgive Jesse. Oh, yeah. And I just think she's a good person. And, like I said, a badass that would totally have fit in with our group. Not meant to be Rick's partner. I will agree with that. But it doesn't mean she's not a cool person. Yeah. You see her stepping up in this episode. Like, that's, I guess, what makes it more tragic is she's not getting dragged out. When she's in that linked arms line, you're not thinking, oh, all those weak people, you're thinking, god damn it. Yeah.

[01:33:19] This is hard. Yes. And that's, you know, it's simultaneously better and worse. Better for the story, worse because it feels shitty. Yeah. And then, oh, what else? I just wanted to add to all this about Sam that, you know, I'm not sure if he would have been freaked out about all this if Carol hadn't said what she said. And then Rick hadn't killed his father. But I think it's, this is Sam's last episode.

[01:33:48] Well, it's next week. I just think it's ridiculous to hate on this little kid for acting like a little kid, you know? Yeah. And, I mean, that said, as soon as he said, mom, I would have been like, shut the fuck up, kid. But I still totally feel for him. And I blame the adults more than him for what happened here. It feels like no one's actually explained the zombie thing to him. Like, it feels like there's a real gap in understanding with him.

[01:34:18] It's like he's so young that they maybe haven't thought to kind of actually sit him down and say what that means. It feels like there's a lot of confusion there. And that's, yeah, that's really hard. And that's, in this particular situation, it's kind of like I hadn't seen any of the Freddy Krueger movies because I wasn't watching horror movies when they first started coming out.

[01:34:40] And so, but I heard about him and in my mind, he was way scarier than when I actually went and watched the movie and saw it. And I'm like, oh, this is more manageable now. So they kind of need to do a version of that with Sam because he's just heard about it from Carol who was deliberately trying to freak him out. And so now they need to be like, okay, these used to be people, but they got this virus and now they're dangerous. But we know how to deal with them or something like that. Yeah.

[01:35:09] Whereas he just seems to have this nebulous idea of like monsters and the monsters can be people. They're going to eat me. They're going to eat me. Or they can be the zombies. Like what one is it? And yeah, I feel, I did feel for him there. I was like, someone's kind of, there's been a bit of a, not that there is a like bloody manual of like how to train your child to deal with the zombie apocalypse. But it did feel like there'd been a bit of a lack of care in terms of having him explain what, like understand what was happening. And part of that comes from living in this really sheltered community that they were in.

[01:35:38] But yeah, it really feels like he didn't just didn't have a handle on the world around him at all. But you just made me realize that as an ex tech writer, I would actually have a job in the zombie apocalypse because I'm going to write that manual. You would, you'd write the manuals. I need an artist, somebody. Show a zombie eating a child with a big like circle and a red line through it. Randy would do that. Don't let this happen. Yeah, Randy. I think you and Randy would be fine. We should do it. We should do it. That'd be so funny. A podcasting a fundraiser.

[01:36:10] All right. Anything else? Points wise. No, I've got some notes, but nothing. I had one more. Go for it.

[01:36:21] Zombies pouring in might seem old hat to some, but it still thrilled me in this episode, mostly because there's so many of them and they're infiltrating this area that had seen the whole point was it seemed like normal and untouched. And the way that they it reminded me of Herschel's farm, the one we all stormed to Herschel's farm.

[01:36:49] But we were not allowed to go into the farmhouse because that was the condition. It was a real farmhouse. And the owner said, you can film here, but no zombies in the house. And so now we see them coming up the stairs and into the rooms and everything. And it just feels like such a violation in kind of a delicious way. So I thought it was pretty thrilling.

[01:37:09] And also a lot of times with the zombies on this show, it sort of strains credulity that they would let themselves be in danger because they could just run away. But here when you're like in a house and they're coming up the stairs, there's not much you can do. So it feels really scary, you know, and there's so many of them. Yeah, absolutely. I like that. It was pretty harrowing when Maggie's climbing up the trellis or whatever it was. I thought that was some pretty amazing stuff from Lauren Cohan. I was like, whoa, she's good at stunts, man.

[01:37:39] That was stressful. And then she gets up to the top and just starts relaxing and then sees Glenn's balloons overhead, which was another artful moment. It's very cute. Very, very cute. I guess that's all I had to say. That was good. In terms of wee sort of bits and pieces, the aerial shot of Alexandra being overrun was really cool. I think back in Always Accountable, we didn't know who had said help over the radio and we found out that it's Eugene in this episode. Oh, I didn't even realise. Yeah.

[01:38:09] I did laugh when Glenn was like encouraging Enid to go in and he says, you know, the people we love, my pregnant wife. And I was like, you could add her name as well. I know the point is that she's pregnant and that's a big deal for Enid and for Glenn, but it just made me laugh. I was like imagining an alternative script where he's like, my pregnant wife. I want to say Maddie. Is that her name?

[01:38:36] But yeah, Glenn and Enid, I feel, get more to do in the second part of this, but I don't remember. I hope so because it seemed kind of funny to me. I mean, this is nitpicky, but they're like, we need to go over there. They're arguing, right? Yeah. Come on, there's still a lot. We can help them. And then it's like an hour later and they're just up a tree. Yeah. They're taking their sweet time. Glenn's like, we can go in as soon as I remember her name. But until I remember her name, we're staying in the tree, Enid.

[01:39:05] And she's like, okay. I don't want to be embarrassed. Rosita, Tara and Eugene, always nice to see them. Tara's being an optimist. You know, they're kind of arguing a place like this has got to have a price. We haven't paid it already, apparently not. Rosita's feeling pretty desolate. She thinks that Abraham's dead. Yeah. He is not dead, but he is going to dump you. I know, she might wish he was dead. Remember when I was upset you were dead? Well, now I wish you were dead. Yeah, exactly.

[01:39:34] Eugene, you know, always a star. Can pick locks. Who knew? Yeah. Great skill. It's got some skill. I was thinking, I should teach myself how to do that at some point. Bodhi's into that. He keeps trying to pick locks all the time. Oh, man. Bodhi. I'm not going to comment on that. Oh, that little guy is going to be so much trouble. I love it. We can tell the story I just told.

[01:39:58] I got a message from his teacher with a picture of his brother's pocket knife, which he'd brought to school because he thought it would be cool to show it to his friends. I think he would do really well in the zombie apocalypse. I think he'd actually be super resourceful. Amazing. Amazing. I also like that Tara spoke for all TV audiences ever when she was like, I don't think he's dead because I didn't see it. I was like, yep, that's how TV works now.

[01:40:27] Denise was really cute with the wolf trying to reason with him. He says to her, you're what I like about people. And I don't know what he means by that. If it's like, yeah, I don't know. I don't even want to try to decipher him. The tense music for the walkout was good. I felt like there was a real focus on Carl with his two eyes. Everything was quite still. Sam, I would say, didn't look scared so much as kind of disgusted, which I think also works that he's like disgusted with the people around him in that moment of like, what are we doing?

[01:40:57] This is horrible. I thought it was funny when they were first smearing the guts all over themselves and Father Gabriel looks like he's going to throw up. He did a really convincing, fakey... I could almost hear him going, I changed my mind. Rick's people are bad people. Yeah. Or him in a monologue going, no, Rick thinks you're cool. Don't throw up. Rick thinks you're cool now. Yeah, right, right. Hold us together. Swallow it. Swallow it. And then the post-credits. I vividly remembered the main saviour guy. His name is Christopher Berry.

[01:41:26] And apparently he's had lots of bit parts and things like No Way Home and other things that we've watched and spoken about. Just a very tense introduction to Negan and the idea that that storyline's about to intersect majorly. So if you didn't get a chance to watch the post-credits scene, Abraham, Sasha and Daryl are in the truck. They are stopped on the road by a blockade, which of course will become really important later in the season. It's all guys on bikes.

[01:41:56] They look just kind of like a biker gang. And the main biker gives a kind of very flowery speech. Can't imagine where he picked that up from. And he says, all your stuff now belongs to Negan. And that's the movie. I didn't totally expect this, but I felt it watching the Dwight episode. And now when you're talking about this, just this dread that we're moving into the saviour's era. And I think with number 700, we should end the rewatch. Thank you, everybody. Yeah, that's it. We're done here. And everyone lived happily ever after. Goodbye.

[01:42:27] Tiptoe through the tulips. Tiptoe through the tulips with me. Yep. Yep. Amazing. So that's kind of my notes apart from the usual bits. I don't have any notes. You got any trivia or timeline? Oh my God. So much. Trivia. There were four small figures in Sam's room at the beginning. Did you recognize them? Little action figures? I didn't look. They were from Invincible. Oh, cool. Yeah. Invincible is there.

[01:42:55] Which is now a super successful series on Amazon. Apparently it's like one of their most successful series ever. Starring Stephen Yeun. When tending to Carol's wounds, Morgan tells her, sit down before you fall down. These are the same words he said to a wounded right in days gone by. He also says the same thing to Eastman in the cemetery towards the end of Here Is Not Here. Robert Kirkman says Sam represents the innocence of the Alexandrian people. Though there was a post-credits scene, many of those who watched the episode live or recorded

[01:43:25] the episode on the first run did not get to see the scene because it was shown during the commercial break of Into the Badlands. Remember when AMC? All they wanted us to do was watch Into the Badlands. The scene does not appear after the credits on any digital download. Scenes featuring Alexandrians escaping the herd were cut due to time. So there were apparently scenes featuring Keith, Spencer and Aaron. But they are on the Blu-ray release. So we should check this out.

[01:43:55] This is the first mention of Negan and the second appearance of the Saviors, if you include Dwight and Sherry. This was Seth Gilliam's first experience shooting around a massive amount of walkers. And this episode includes the death of Deanna Munro. I did think when I was watching this with Father Gabriel watching the guts thing, he loses his sight later through doing this badly and getting like guts in his eye or something like that. I feel like he remembers this.

[01:44:21] We're on day 573 of the zombie apocalypse, which is March the 19th, 2012. May the 3rd, which is like two days from now, but is also in 2012, the day of the lineup is 45 days away. So we're just over a month out from Negan. Negan Day. So that's something to look forward to. I am. I know listeners will think you're a monster, Jason. But I am looking forward to that episode because it's a very good episode.

[01:44:48] And so many people have said to me, I only watched that once and I will never watch it again, but I will watch it gleefully. I will watch it to cheer myself up. Only on The Walking Dead would someone decide a massive zombie attack was the perfect time to check whether your friend is hiding a killer in their basement. Only in The Walking Dead would a cookie look so fucking unappetizing. Unless you're an anteater. True. True.

[01:45:16] Hello, moving chief.

[01:45:59] Yeah, they're dead. They're all messed up. So first, Deadline reports that the first two episodes of Walking Dead Dead City Season 3 will open the 65th Monte Carlo TV Festival on June 12th. Almost quite soon. I don't know if that means that the show will premiere soon or not. When AMC, I guess, showed a bunch of shows coming up this year, earlier this year, they

[01:46:27] showed the Daryl show, but not Dead City. So who knows? But I think the whole thing is filmed. So we'll see. Yeah. Do we have a date for Daryl? No, we don't have a date for Daryl. But it's usually in the fall, I think. September. Yeah. Yeah, it tends to go Dead City first. Yeah, but we'll see. I mean, Daryl is ahead of Dead City, right? They're on Season 4 and Dead City's on 3, so they skipped a year or something. And Seth Hoffman's coming in as showrunner of that show, so that should be interesting. See how it changes.

[01:46:58] Next, Lee Jun Lee, who played Grace Chow in the movie Sinners, has joined the cast of The Last of Us for Season 3, where she'll be playing Miriam, a Seraphite, and the mother of Lev and Yara, if you play the games, you know who all those people are. Oh. So that's good. And then last, as I mentioned earlier, the first trailer for the upcoming Resident Evil movie's out. I think a lot of people, as soon as they hear Resident Evil movie, they go, I'm tuning out. I don't care.

[01:47:27] All those movies suck. And I don't blame you, but I'm here to say that I think this one's going to be different because it's written and directed by Zach Crager, who did Barbarian and Weapons, stars Austin Abrams, who's Ron in Walking Dead. Also has Zach Cherry, who plays Dylan in Severance. And Paul Walter Hauser, who was Stingray in Cobra Kai.

[01:47:50] And unlike Barbarian and Weapons, which are very twisty movies, this one's going to be more straightforward. The premise is Brian, a medical courier, is in the process of making a delivery when a sudden outbreak occurs, forcing him to fight for survival. And Crager talked with IGN about the movie. He said, this is for sure, bar none, my most visually gonzo movie. Basically, my rule for this movie was to just try and make a movie that felt like my experience

[01:48:19] of playing the games that could live in the world of Resident Evil. So I feel like this movie takes place alongside the events of Resident Evil 2, which is my favorite Resident Evil game. I like to think that everything that's going on in the police station could be happening in this world. That was stuff happening in the game. This is just another dude on another mission on another side of town and what's going on with him. It's not canon in that I'm not using the characters, but it's canon in that it lives in the actual Day of Reckoning in Raccoon City.

[01:48:47] He also said, believe it or not, this movie doesn't utilize zombies that much. It's much more focused on like weird creature stuff than zombies. There's really only two scenes, maybe three actually, now that I think about it, where there's like proper zombie stuff going on and two of those three are in this trailer. So if you watch the trailer, you see some weird creature stuff going on. Okay. And I'll put a link to that in the show notes if people want to check it out. Nice. As the crispy chicken sandwich from 7-Eleven, people always call me loud.

[01:49:17] And I'm like, yeah, I know. I'm crispy. Did you expect me to whisper? If you want quiet, go eat some soup and reflect. Like, I know I'm a handful. I'm bold. I'm juicy. Throw some pickles and barbecue sauce on me. And baby, I'm a whole meal. And with seven rewards, I'm just $4. Quiet. No. Crispy, saucy, and $4? Very. Only at 7-Eleven. Valley through 62326. Participating stores only while supplies last see out for full terms. That's it for the news. Let's move on to listener moans, groans, grunts.

[01:49:50] All right. We have Brad Holt, who says, gormuflage. Coined a term. Andy Fisher says, come on, Renee Marie, let's hear yours about Rick's Max Blood look. Brad Holt says, Rick and company breaking out the gormuflage. Congratulations on the 700th episode. Wow. Time flies. So excited you're going back to the original name of the cast. Thank you, Brad. Thank you, Brad. Oh, he already – I put him in twice.

[01:50:19] Oh, well, happens occasionally. Here's a call from Colette. I listen to you guys all the time. I grew up in England. I've been living in America for the last, like, 30-odd years. And I'm in the process of getting a British passport, which expired 25 years ago because that's a whole big deal, I think, because of Brexit. Anyway, you guys were talking about the new Saturday Night Live in England, which is great.

[01:50:44] But I remember growing up watching something called Friday Night Live, like when I was a kid. And it was very similar to Saturday Night Live, but it was Friday Night Live. And I don't know. Am I imagining this? No, you're right. I'm in my 60s. You're right. Very long time ago. But seriously, I remember Friday Night Live and it was very much like Saturday Night Live. As I'm making it up, I don't know. Help. No, I looked it up. You're right.

[01:51:14] That was a brain tickle when you said that. I remember reruns of it. It was, if you look it up on Wikipedia, it was called Saturday Live, but retitled Friday Night Live. And it had people like Ben Elton, Harry Enfield, Julian Cleary, people like that on it. And yeah, it was very stand-up based. Cool. So you're not insane, Colette. That was completely right. Thanks, Colette. Veronica Robbins Hood. Veronica Robbins Hood. Veronica got married. Congratulations, Veronica.

[01:51:46] Said, ah, these are some of my favorite episodes, honestly. Seeing the Alexandrians have to face the realities of the apocalypse finally and decide whether to cower or step up really connected me to the fear in this world again. The next episode, number nine, is actually my favorite episode of the entire series. And it's really the last big moment before we have to endure the endless Negan episodes. Yep. Yep, yep. We love you, Veronica. I think you're coming on soon. I'm excited to see you.

[01:52:17] Matt King says, 700 up. Well done all. This was a strong episode with a lot going on, especially after the tower fell and allowed all the walkers into Alexandria. Deanna with the line of the show when she sees the teeth marks on her belly. Well, shit. That would have made Clay Davis proud. We see the gang covering themselves in the guts and blood of the walkers so they can move among them, which is working fine until Ralph Wiggum. Oh my God, I can't not see it. Started saying, mom, mom. And getting the attention of the walkers.

[01:52:45] We also see the lost Wolf Wyman overpower Morgan and take Denise hostage, which plays out in the next episode. Oh my God. And now I'm just extending that out. Ralph Wiggum saying, mom, mom, mom. And then they all get eaten. And then that other kid's like, ha, ha. My cat's breath smells like cat food. Amazing. Here's a message from Steve Brown. Steve Brown. Hello, Walking Dead cast. This is Steve. And I just finished watching Start to Finish.

[01:53:16] But gosh, it was like almost four minutes that my live Steve was. So I'm not going to send that. It's way too long to send. But I want to tell you, your 700th episode and wonderful going back to the original name is just amazing. And thank you so much for this podcast. This rewatch has been great. I have not rewatched the Walking Dead series from the very beginning ever.

[01:53:41] I mean, I think since the first time I watched it, I've never actually gone back and rewatched all of the seasons in order. I think I might have watched like one of the season before the COVID season or the COVID season. I can't remember. But this has been my first full rewatch of the series. And it's been great following y'all. So thank you so much for this. This episode, though, in particular, Start to Finish, so much happens in this episode.

[01:54:09] And so much doesn't happen that I remember the next episode is going to catch us up on that. Wow. It's just a great episode. And it's wonderful for your 700th episode to be doing this one here. But some of the highlights for me were, you know, obviously it's just Deanna there at the end thinking she's going to be able to off herself, but wasting her bullets fighting walkers kind of ineffectually.

[01:54:37] The fact that we offscreen Rosita, Tara, and Eugene get to Morgan's house. We don't see how they get there. We just see them arrive there with the wolf already having Denise as a hostage and Carol and Morgan being knocked out. Gosh, I can't wait to hear you guys talk about this one. I've gone almost two minutes on this one just gushing. You've built Jason and Karen and Lucy and all of the other hosts.

[01:55:04] You have built such a great community here with Podcastica. And I love it. And I want to thank you so much for the years we've had together and can't wait for the years going forward. All right. This is Steve. Talk to you later. And I have to, I totally forgot about the end credit scene with Daryl and Eugene, not Eugene, and Sasha. And gosh, it's such a great scene.

[01:55:31] And Abraham is there driving the truck and they're going to find these guys in the road with their bikes. And Daryl's going to blow them up. It's great. Thanks, Steve. That was lovely. Yeah. And thank you for your unique place in the community as the live Steaver and so much more. He is brilliant. We just love you, Steve. It would not be the same without you. I hope you're doing well. It really wouldn't. All right. Next is Rachel Teal Edwards who says, 700.

[01:56:00] Holy moly. Congratulations. This week I suddenly found it absurd that I'm not a contributing and participating member of your Patreon group anymore. Given the fact that this is my 10th anniversary of listening to The Walking Dead cast. Did I ever call it the cast of us? No, I did not. Which means I've listened to like 75% of the episodes. Not to mention this podcast and Wax Episodic bring me an immeasurable amount of joy each week.

[01:56:25] Truly as a mom now, this is the only thing I do for fun for me and it saves my sanity sometimes being immersed in this world with you all. So I rejoined the Patreon. I saw she did that. And thank you, Rachel. That's really, really nice of you. Oh, that's amazing, Rachel. She says, yay. I'm excited. Thank you so much for all the work you do and for this community you've built. This episode, however, was not such a blessing. So I'm quitting the Patreon. No, I'm just kidding. I would like a refund, please.

[01:56:53] Turns out the one I'm actually looking forward to is next week's. This one was another slog for me, surprisingly. It starts off exciting, but then it's a lot of getting to safety and having conversations about what to do, which I guess is necessary. But such a slow buildup and no payoff yet. But next week, oh, just wait. Ha ha. I totally watched ahead this time because I couldn't stand to wait. Okay, that's all this week. Can't wait to listen to number 700. Bye. Oh, that's nice, Rachel. Thank you, Rachel. I hope you're doing well.

[01:57:22] I'm glad that because Rachel's actually, I don't know, I thought you sort of stopped listening for a while there, or at least you weren't writing it as much. But it's been so great. I feel like Rachel had a baby not so long ago, right? She had a baby. She's got some stuff going on, man. But even before that, I think she was out of the, she wasn't writing in for a while. And she's been writing in a lot more lately. And she's always got such insightful, interesting things to say.

[01:57:48] I don't always agree with you, but oftentimes you're saying it's like you picked it right out of my brain. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I've got Billy Thompson, who says, hello, hello. Hope you guys are well. 700. Unfortunately, can't say I've listened to them all, but damn, I've tried. Congrats. What an eerie opener to the episode reminded me of the opening to The Grove. Wow. How lucky is Maggie that these Zeds aren't season 11 Zeds, otherwise they would have been straight up that ladder with her.

[01:58:16] Also nice seeing some characters miss their shots, but not Rick, of course. It's strange seeing Jesse and Rick have a moment in this episode where she touches his face and rests her hand on his chest for a second, considering she dies next episode and he gets with Michonne the episode after that. I'm not sure what the writers were thinking, but it just seems strange. Was it to show they did have connection before she goes or what? Did they actually kiss Jesse and Rick, like properly? Yeah. They don't. Yeah, they did when he went over to her place a couple episodes ago and I thought it was creepy.

[01:58:46] Oh yeah, they did. Sorry. Billy goes on to say, guts. Jesse and Ron are looking at Rick like we did, the audience, in episode two and yet still haven't heard Rick mention Wayne Dunlap. I'd love to be just pissed with Morgan this episode, but the fact Carol is more interested in seeing what Morgan is up to rather than saving people from the more immediate danger just seems silly. Agreed. It's certainly a problem, but it could have waited. I actually really enjoyed the classic zombie tropes we see in this episode.

[01:59:13] It almost feels like we haven't had enough of them in the rewatch lately. That or because we missed a couple of weeks. But the chaos and blocking up entrances with furniture, the clawing hands and the hundreds up the windows, characters separated in groups with nothing to do but wait it out. This is actually just a great classic zombie episode. I'm absolutely here for it. Totally. Totally agree. And here it comes. The first mention of Negan in the post-credits scene. We are fast approaching the top of The Walking Dead mountain. Thanks, guys. Bye. The top of the mountain.

[01:59:43] Oh, yeah. And then comes the lowest valley. Yeah, where it went downhill. I wonder what the actual middle episode would be. I'm going to try and figure that out. I figured it out. I was going to mention it when we got to it. I can't remember which one it is now, though. Amazing. Uh, it's in. Oh, it's season seven, episode six. Swear. Well, wow. We're nearly halfway. Yeah.

[02:00:07] It seems crazy that halfway isn't until season seven, but the seasons had more episodes later on. That's why. Yeah. All right. Let's hear if Renee talked about how attractive Rick is when he's covered in guts. Here we go. Hi, Jason. Hi, Lucy. Happy 700 episodes. Thank you. Episodes. Episodes with an S.

[02:00:36] Ain't no podcast like Podcaster. Okay. Let me get into this episode. Why was everyone falling? Why? It's like, this is not the time to be clumsy. Okay. But listen, don't play with Maggie Reed. Maggie Reed is straight gangster. And Morgan, he is diabolical. Morgan got some serious, serious issues.

[02:01:01] And why does that wolf teeth look like that? I mean, Lucy, please tell me how long has it been since the ZA started? Because his teeth look hideous. Yeah. It's giving halitosis. And I'm not understanding that at all. And it's like, unjustissary. Go sit your ass down somewhere, okay?

[02:01:29] Why are you touching Rick in his face? Why? Do not piss me off, okay? And I'm so happy his beard had not fully grown back. Because I would have had a conniption if she had been playing in his beard. And I'm going to continue to circle this block. Because what is the reason behind unjustissary? I'm still lost. I'm still lost.

[02:01:58] And it's like, everything is popping off. And Rick is in a room with unjustissary. While Michonne is in a room with Deanna. And I'm going to be honest. I didn't shed a tear. Because Deanna was dying. It's like, you know, I don't know her like that. However, I'm glad she asked Michonne what is it that she wanted. Because she felt and she saw the chemistry between Rick and Michonne. So, she definitely clocked it.

[02:02:27] And I love when Carl told Ron, listen, sir. Your dad is a killer too. How about that? Like, boy, go sit your ass down somewhere. Carl, like, listen. Let me get that gun, shawty. Let me get it. Because you don't even know what you're doing. Now, listen. When my baby picked Deanna up, like, she was lightweight. I was like, yes. Because that's how he picked Michonne up and the ones who live. Just so effortlessly. And I love that. I love me a man that can pick me up. Baby, Rick Grimes.

[02:02:56] That's my type. And Deanna, she was on point when she said, Rick is a good man, a good father. And he can grow one hell of a beard. And it's like, Po Rosita. Po Rosita. She was sitting there worried about Abraham being dead. While he out there flirting with Sasha. Just trifling. And I don't like it. And you know what? I wouldn't care if Eugene had never learned how to fight. Even though, of course, he's going to learn. Eugene, he knows so much.

[02:03:26] And he's always learning. Eugene was sitting there reading the book while the Walkers were scratching on the window. It's like, Eugene needs to be protected at all costs. Wrap him up. Put him in a bubble. Do whatever you need to do. Because he has gotten him through on numerous of occasions. And it's like Rick saying to Michonne, Michonne, I got this one. Reminded me of him saying that to her and the ones who lived. When they was leaving together to go back home. After she put that thing on him and got his mind back. Baby Rick was going up the hallway.

[02:03:56] He was kicking zombies and everything. Kicking, I'm sorry. Walkers and everything else. I was like, yes, Michonne, yes. Because Rick and Michonne are a team. And again, I'm still confused why Unnecessary was even in the picture. But I must say, she looked cute in her little fitted jeans. They were not sagging the booty. And that's the only compliment she would ever get from me. Because again, she was unnecessary. Unnecessary.

[02:04:23] And Rick, he didn't have on any gloves when he was ripping out those Walker guts. Just nasty. At least Michonne had on some gloves. I was like, Rick, you need to wash your hands. Because, ew. Ew. And why did Michonne have to keep going in there checking on Deanna? Why not Unnecessary? That was her people. I'm confused. I didn't like that. It's like they was trying too hard to keep Rick and Michonne apart. They was just trying too hard.

[02:04:52] And when Deanna said, I believe, no one made a big deal out of it until RJ said it. And I still don't understand what was wrong with that baby believing his father was still out there. I just don't understand. And it's like, let me get this straight. Morgan put Carol on her back for Mr. Bad Teeth. Then Mr. Bad Teeth knocked him out and abducted Denise. Please make it make sense.

[02:05:17] It's like, Morgan, go find you something else better to do because you're insane in the membrane. Just insane. But you know what part really pissed me off? Why was Unnecessary helping Rick and Carl cover Judith while Michonne was just standing there? I didn't like it then and I don't like it now. Especially when Michonne has been the one taking care of Judith. I just don't understand. They were trying too hard to keep Michonne hush hush.

[02:05:44] That they totally dropped the ball too many times when it came to Michonne. It was definitely giving shady to me. And like I said, I don't like it. It's like, what were you guys thinking? It just, it didn't, it did not give what it was supposed to give. Okay. But we only got one more episode and we're shown we'll be in game. And Unnecessary would never be thought of again. But still, it was distasteful and unnecessary. And it's like, oh Lord, not Negan.

[02:06:14] I'm not ready. I promise you I'm not ready. I am not. And y'all might as well get ready because it's going to be, we're going to be doing some back and forth. I'm telling you right now. All righty. Again, congrats on 700 episodes. Peace and love. Bye. Bye, Renee. Thank you, Renee. Appreciate it. All right. Now we have more messages.

[02:06:43] These, I put all the ones that are more about our 700th at the end here. Oh, wow. Cool. Randy Stevenson said about our 700th episode. 700! With several exclamation points and a zombie. Veronica Robbins Hood said, heart, heart in a movie format. Good friend, Kirk Manley said, congratulations, brother. 700. That's amazing. And a little champagne emoji with some glasses. Thank you, Kirk.

[02:07:12] Heather Martin said, I love the party hats on the zombies. Congrats on 700. I put up a little graphic of our regular podcast art, but the zombies had party hats on. Oh, amazing. Patrick Hamburg says, wow, that's quite an achievement. Impressive. And that's the truth, Ruth. Nils Cordis says, congrats on number 700. What an incredible feat. And thank you for having been continuously insightful, funny, and kind. The world could use more of you. Aw, that's nice. Yeah. He's talking about you there.

[02:07:42] Aw, thank you. Daniel Demet Jost says, the Walking Dead cast was my first podcast. I've always loved the name and I'm so happy to see it back. Discovering a space for fans of this show I love so much was life-changing. Thank you for creating it and fostering such a welcoming environment. I have fallen off commenting, but I'm always listening. Congratulations. I love you guys. We love you too, Daniel. I'm glad you're still listening. Michael Koska says, you guys weren't just the first Walking Dead podcast I listened to.

[02:08:11] You were the first podcast I ever listened to, period, back in the old iPod app in 2011. I had no idea at the time I was getting into something that would become a multi-decade relationship. Thanks for all the years of great content. Here's to the next 700. Thanks, Michael. Yeah, Michael's been a loyal listener and just a great guy going back to the beginning. That's lovely. Vince Pagano says, haven't written in in a while, but never stopped listening.

[02:08:40] I think I'm on my third background noise rewatch, LOL, because I love listening to you guys and I'd like to follow along. There are work days I wouldn't get through without you guys, so keep on being awesome. By the way, if you haven't listened to the Pluribus or Fallout coverage on Wax Episodic, it's amazing. Severance is next. Well, we're in the middle of Severance, yeah, and it's so fun to be doing something else with Karen over there. Amazing. Thanks, Vince. Wyman Owen says, that's amazing.

[02:09:07] I didn't find the podcast until like halfway through season eight. You, all the hosts, brought me so much more to my Walking Dead experience and I'm so grateful for y'all. I didn't think you could get more out of a show besides just watching it. I was so wrong. Congrats on 700 episodes. Keep up the most wonderful content. Please, please, please don't get bit. But if you did, Walker is hosting a Walking Dead podcast would be epic. Cheers. Oh, that would be cool, to be fair. I mean, we'd just be like... Yeah.

[02:09:36] Rinaldi Kaleek says, congratulations. I'm so happy to be able to say amazing job making it to episode 700. You guys helped make Walking Dead have one of the best fan communities in TV history. It's an honor to be able to listen to you guys reach episode 700. Could you guys describe the moment where you overcame your initial discomfort with podcasting and it became natural to you? I'm curious about that. I don't know if I was ever uncomfortable with it. I just like chatting. Yeah.

[02:10:05] I remember sitting down with Karen on that first day and I tried to have some things prepared, but also leave a lot of space for a conversation to come up in the moment. And it did. And when it was over, I remember being nervous when we sat down. And then when it was over, I was like, that was actually fun. Yeah. I'm sure I was nervous the first couple of times I came on. But honestly, I just enjoy it so much. I think it's, yeah, it's easy to do things when you enjoy them.

[02:10:32] I remember, yeah, for a long time feeling a little nervous at the beginning of each one. And I don't at all now. But I don't know when that started, but when that went away or whatever. But it was always fun. Yeah. Yeah. I've got Matt King, who says, 700 up. Very impressive. Yoda made it to 900. So that's the next big target.

[02:10:59] It's great to have such a variety of shows that you cover and an entertaining group of hosts. But The Walking Dead cast is just that bit special. And the rewatch has been fantastic. The way Jason and Lucy bounce off each other makes it one of the best podcast series ever. Have you tried Office Ladies? Maybe for the 800th episode, you'll have to get all of the hosts together and have a discussion on where and why Fear the Walking Dead went wrong. That could be X rated. It could indeed. Thanks, Matt. That's lovely. Yeah.

[02:11:55] It's the only show I listened to in 2018 that I still listen to in 2026. Thanks for all you do, Jason. And I'm so glad you found Lucy. Good creative partners are hard to come across and you work perfectly together. I'll happily listen to another 700. So get a move on. Aw, thanks, Matthew. That's really nice. Yeah. He's a great guy. All right. Here's a call from Elena. Hi, Jason and Lucy. Congratulations on your 700th episode.

[02:12:24] And congratulations also to Karen. She's a big part of The Walking Dead cast. My name is Elena. And I want to thank you for the many, many years of enjoyment listening to the podcast and for you guys introducing me to so many things. But The Walking Dead was what brought me in.

[02:12:47] I was introduced to it in August of 2011 over a chance conversation with a guy at CVS. I don't know how Walking Dead came up there, but we were talking about it. A stranger. I was a stranger. And I just mentioned that I had heard about it and I thought I would love it because it's my kind of genre. But I didn't have cable.

[02:13:15] And he told me that I could purchase episodes and seasons on iTunes. So that's what I did. And I remember very, very clearly watching the first episode. And we had a hurricane that particular or the aftermath of a hurricane. We had just gotten our electricity back. So I watched the first episode. And then when I was done, I was like, oh, I need to check outside.

[02:13:43] There were some things that had blown around. I got to the door. And the first thing I thought of was, oh, wow, what if there are zombies out here? I've got to figure out, like, where am I going to hide? So it really obviously got into my brain, so to speak. And I have shortly after that found your podcast and have been listening ever since when the series ended.

[02:14:12] Actually, I was pretty bereft. And I immediately went back and listened to every single one of your episodes. I'm continuing to watch the – I'm doing the rewatch with you guys episode by episode, even though I've watched the series multiple times. But I'm still getting – I'm getting such enjoyment from it. And I hope you continue with it. I know there's some tough seasons coming up, which I don't care for. But I'll do it if you guys do it.

[02:14:41] So anyway, thank you so much for the years of enjoyment. I'm looking forward to many more. And thank you for building – for this community that you've created. Lots of just really wonderful people. And thank you. All right. Bye. Thank you, Elena. Amazing, Elena. Thank you.

[02:15:03] That's – I used to have that happen more often where I just get so – like I'd be watching the show a lot or playing Resident Evil and then go outside and just imagine the world as the apocalypse and where the zombies are and stuff like that. It's kind of fun. Oh, it's wild, isn't it? Andy Fisher says, Jason and Lucy, thank you so much for this wonderful podcast. I never miss an episode.

[02:15:29] I do a lot of paperwork and driving for my job and it's a blessing to have such wonderful podcasts to listen to and think about. I believe I started listening to the podcast during the initial run of season three and you've kept such a high quality to it that it really enriches the depth and enjoyment of the show, even on multiple rewatches. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. I can't wait to hear – I can't wait to listen to the Fear the Walking Dead episodes on Patreon this summer, five pizza slices and an engagement ring. I hope that your show and The Walking Dead goes on forever.

[02:15:59] So many amazing stories still to be told. Aw, thanks, Andy. I think he means – You're planning on listening to those this summer because we had Fear the Walking Dead rants that were only on the Patreon. I'm guessing that's what he means. Thanks, Andy. It's been fun to have you as a part of this lately. It really has.

[02:16:27] Stephen Fletcher says, I don't know if this is too late, but now I thought I'd say congratulations on 700 episodes. Here's to 700 more. Yay! I think it was 2014, maybe around the time of season four or five was airing when I started listening. Also, I finally caught up on the rewatch podcast, so I thought I'd say thank you for the really nice response to the comment I sent for the now possibly fittingly titled episode. Thank you. It was nice to hear I'm not alone with the anxiety of even hearing my comments read out on the podcast.

[02:16:56] I'm aiming to send a comment for the No Way Out rewatch as I'm a bit of a Jesse defender, and I know I'm in the minority there. I hope you do, because I'm with you, Stephen. Yeah. Jeff says, hey, Jason Lucy and all of Podcastica. Thank you all for the great podcasts over Walking Dead, its spinoffs and many other shows. I started listening with Daryl Dixon and Dead City back in 2023. I watched both series simultaneously as Daryl Dixon was airing.

[02:17:23] I've continued listening through Ones Who Live as well as season one of The Last of Us and the next seasons of the spinoffs, and now to the rewatch of the main show as of season five. I hope to go back to listen to the rewatch from the start. I look forward to the podcast every week, and especially as you get to the end of season six and going into the saviour seasons. I'm not planning to rewatch those, but I will listen to your coverage of those. I have also listened to many other podcast shows since. Congratulations on 700 episodes, and I look forward to many more. Thank you so much, Jeff.

[02:17:53] It's Jeff. I love how we get people who've joined more recently as well. That's always really nice to hear. Yeah, and Jeff's really active on our Discord, which isn't all that active. So I'm grateful to you for giving some people some stuff to look at in there. I love the Discord. I pop up frequently. I'm a lurker. I like it too. I'm a lurker and a liker. If you guys haven't tried Gifuno, that's super fun. It's so fun.

[02:18:20] Robin Springer says, hey, y'all, I wasn't here for the beginning of the Stone Age. I've made a joke about the Stone Age in my post about this, about how we've been around since then. But I rode my mammoth in somewhere around the third season or so and promptly went back to hear all the previous episodes. As I've said before, I was a rube about podcasts until my sister told me about them. Living a solitary life and going through some stuff and things, Jason and Karen, and then Jason and Lucy and various co-hosts kept me company and more importantly gave me additional insights and things to think about.

[02:18:49] I can't seem to get it together to call in lately, but I'm following along in the rewatch and you're still keeping me company. Congratulations on 700 episodes. 700 more would be great. We'll talk soon. Thank you, Robin. You do you, Robin. We love you. We see you and we support you. And Robin will be back on at some point too. She wanted to come on when you're here. Amazing. I would love that. I loved listening to her. So yes, that would be brilliant.

[02:19:21] All right. That is our show. Episode 7000. Thanks for listening, everyone. Episode 7 million. Next episode will be Walking Dead Season 6, Episode 9, No Way Out. And if you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it, you can find all our contact information at podcastdicate.com. And while you're there, please check out our other podcasts.

[02:19:47] The Testaments is going really interestingly right now. Me and Daphne and Wendy are loving that show and the podcast is doing really well. And if anybody wants to jump on that, that'd be great. Also, if you miss Karen and who wouldn't, she and I are having so much fun talking about severance over on Wax Episodic. We also covered Pluribus there. Yeah. If you seriously just jump in if you want to hear some fun. That's brilliant.

[02:20:16] I had so much fun guesting on that while you were in Japan. Yeah, I enjoyed listening in to you guys. Also, if you want to sign up for my Patreon, I haven't mentioned it much lately because I've been slacking on doing the extras, honestly. But you do get ad-free episodes on there and you help support the podcasting. And that's at patreon.com slash Jason Cabassi. Thank you to everyone who's already supporting on there. It's really keeping me going with all this. Yay. All right. That is our show.

[02:20:45] Thanks for listening. Don't get bit, Heather Martin.

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