702: "The Next World" (TWD S6E10 Rewatch)

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[00:01:56] Podcastcaster, Jason Cabassi. You all try to tell me. So shut up. Because I'm finally listening.

[00:02:41] Hey Zed Heads, welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Lucy. And I'm Claire. It's Claire, and this is The Walking Dead 'Cast Episode 702. And this episode, we're covering The Walking Dead Season 6, Episode 10, The Next World. And we hope it's good to you. Claire, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Good to have you on. Thank you for having me.

[00:03:07] Claire's a long-time listener and friend, and she's guested on a few other things, but never The Walking Dead cast slash cast of us. So tell us how you found The Walking Dead and how you found the podcast. Well, I saw a trailer for The Walking Dead, and I just absolutely was mesmerized. I'm like, this is what I've always wanted in a TV show. And yes, Lost had just ended.

[00:03:35] And I said, I am going to... Yeah, and it premiered on Halloween night, and I said, I'm going to put my kids to bed because they were little then, and I'm going to stay up late and watch this show. And I did. And it was everything I wanted. And I just was locked in from night one. And I can't remember when I started listening to the podcast, but it had to have been within the first year of when you and Karen started. Wow.

[00:04:05] I mean, I've been listening as far back as I can remember. I know you've been writing in, yeah, since way back. Yeah, sorry it's so sporadic, but I don't miss an episode. I can tell you that. I never miss an episode of listening to any Walking Dead. You're welcome. And thank you. Thank you guys for always putting on a stellar podcast and just entertaining us and giving us an opportunity to talk about our favorite show. So I've loved it.

[00:04:30] So yeah, I've been around for a long time and really enjoyed it. And I mean, that's an understatement. Walking Dead has actually been a big part of my life. And you're also one of the Zeds I've met in real life, which is amazing. I'm so excited about that. Yeah, that was way back before the finale. That was 2019. I went out to Colorado. It was so fun. Listeners, if you ask Lucy to stay in your cabin, there's a chance she might say yes.

[00:04:58] Yeah, yeah, I will. I absolutely will, especially if there were baby bears digging through your trash cans. Did you see any bears while you were here? Because you handed me the bear spray and I thought it was a joke. I was like, oh, okay. And then Peter's like, no, no, that's for real a thing. And I'm like, oh, okay. But then you'd had, like the week before, you'd had some babies come down and they were in your trash and you showed me a video. And I was just like, oh, that's amazing.

[00:05:26] Well, Lucy and I didn't, we didn't bunk with each other. We have rental cabins. So I gave Lucy her own private cabins. Although that would have been fun, Lucy. Summer camp. Oh my God. Next time. Next time. Yeah, next time. All right. As a guest of honor, would you like to read the plot summary, Claire?

[00:05:45] Oh, yes. Walking Dead 610, The Next World. Some two months after battling the walkers in Alexandria, Rick and Daryl head out for a supply run and encounter a smooth talking man known as Jesus who steals their truck. They bring him back to Alexandria after a tussle. Meanwhile, Michonne follows Spencer into the woods and aids him in dispatching and burying the walker that was once his mother, Deanna.

[00:06:12] So you, you asked for this one and I mean, I can see why I think it was freaking great episode, but why did you particularly want to do this one? Well, I mean, I have been a Rick and Michonne shipper since season three at the prison. Um, I thought on first watch, huh? Yeah. You already were thinking that.

[00:06:34] Yeah. And I kind of never thought it would come to fruition. I kind of thought, you know, they're so different and, um, I don't think it's, but you know, Walking Dead has been so groundbreaking and I just really appreciate, uh, what they did with Rick and Michonne and, uh, putting them together.

[00:06:54] I mean, you don't generally see, um, uh, you know, a good old boy with, uh, dark skinned African American woman. And it's, it's what's that Jason? Dark skin, samurai chick. Yes. So I thought it was beautiful, but, um, I didn't think it would really ever happen. I thought they would be good friends. I also read the comics. So, um, following that storyline, I just didn't really think it would, would happen.

[00:07:23] And then when it did, I mean, like Andrea, they were friends in the comic and Rick was with Andrea. Yeah. Which was actually great. I really liked Rick and Andrea in the comics. Because Andrea was a totally different character. Yeah. Totally. Um, so I just was so happy to see, uh, my ship come in with these two. And so I wanted to, and it was, it's such a, um, a different episode too. Uh, we're, I'm actually doing a loss.

[00:07:53] I just rewatched with my, my oldest son, my 26 year old son. He's never watched it. And I haven't watched it in 20 years. That'd be a great show to go back and rewatch. Yeah. I would recommend it. It has aged well and it's just, uh, as good as I remember. And, um, I love the just lightness of this episode where the stakes are low. And, uh, and it reminds me of the episode where they find golf clubs on lost and they just play golf.

[00:08:21] And it's kind of, uh, that was such a great, it's just kind of an escape, uh, for these people who are going through really difficult things. Good call. Similar vibes to that episode for sure. Yeah. Love it. All right. Well, how was it to go back and rewatch Lucy? How about you? Oh, stunning. In general.

[00:08:45] 10 out of 10. Um, I realized I've never sat and thought about like my top five walking dead episodes. We should do this at some point and have a, have a back. Cause there'll be some that I like that you don't. And some, well, not that many, but you know, there'll be one. We'll have different lists. I'm sure. Yeah.

[00:08:59] Um, this has got to be, if not my favorite, then one of my absolute favorite episodes. Um, I have a real, there are two sentimental reasons why I really like this episode. And the other is just because I am a human with a heart and it's just a really good episode of television. Um, but the sentimental reasons are one, there's a shot in this episode of Rick and Daryl holding their guns, looking down the barrel at Jesus.

[00:09:25] That Claire's daughter did a sketch of for me that I still have. And we're watching the episode and I like hit Peter's arm and I was like, it's my picture. It's like, it's all coming together. Yeah. And the other, Oh, that's so sweet. And yeah, it was, it's beautiful. And the other is, um, this was the episode that aired just after my first ever Walker Stalker where I first met you and Chris Fairhurst in London, Jason.

[00:09:51] So I got home that weekend buzzing from the convention and this was the episode and it just felt like such a peak feel good walking dead episode. And I was trying to remember Claire if I shipped Rick and Michonne before this, I don't, I didn't actively not, I wasn't like, Oh, that's never going to happen. But I don't remember if I was like gunning for it or not. But I remember when it happened being like, yes, this is perfect.

[00:10:20] This is absolutely right. And still being, even now, I think it's quite unusual to have your lead couple in a show be a stereotypical handsome white dude and a woman of color. And I just think that's great. And the walking dead has always been really progressive that way. The show has, the comics were a bit more kind of cut down the middle, but the show, I just think it's a really strong point for it.

[00:10:45] And the chemistry between Danai Gurira and Andrew Lincoln is off the scale. I will take no notes on this. It's just, it's great. Um, but yeah, just an all around fantastic episode. I'm just really happy that I got to watch it. Watching it twice was not a big problem for me. Also Tom Payne is also nice to look at. I'm just going to say it, but you know,

[00:11:06] I mean what surprised me about Tom Payne because Tom Payne is one of my favorite people to have ever gotten the pleasure of hanging out with when I did Paul Walker Stalker. Yeah. Such a cool guy.

[00:11:20] I first met him at a, like a pre party and I went up and I'm like, Hey, let's do a benediction or whatever for you as Jesus. And he's like, yeah, that's so funny. So then we did it at the panel, you know, like, um, and, and he was just so fun, but also he was, uh, way better looking without all the Jesus stuff. He's a like striking guy. He's like a model.

[00:11:46] I have some, some quite difficult thoughts about the wig work in this episode. His beard looks fake. Yeah. But you know, when he doesn't have that too, you can see his face. Like he looks, he's like a stunningly good looking guy, but also super cool and nice and grounded, you know, and fun and, uh, small. He's like an elf. Yeah. A little guy, right? Yeah. You don't get that on TV.

[00:12:14] You can probably corroborate this Jason, but he got like auditioned cast and was shooting within about a week. I think he was really quick, which surprises me. I'm like, did they have someone else lined up? And it felt like, it seems like they would have planned Jesus quite far in advance, but it worked.

[00:12:29] So that, uh, I did an interview with him later on in this season, uh, towards the finale. And I don't remember the details, but I remember it being super fun. So I will put a link in the show notes to that. And then, um, Karen and I did a panel with him after Jesus died later on in the series. And, uh, that we also put out on the podcast. So I'll put a link to that too. I think that was probably pretty fun too.

[00:12:57] Cause he was always great on panels and he, he was really a genuine, uh, you know, on the panels, he would, he would really put himself out there and, uh, he's just a great guy. I do feel like he was one of the casualties of like the bad era for the show or the weaker year. I feel like his character got sidelined quite a lot. Well, it's a casualty of Daryl a little bit because, uh, a lot of characters that got a lot more to do in the comic where Daryl is in, Daryl got to do it.

[00:13:26] So that's one reason why Tom Payne left, died. He asked to leave because he wanted to do more like Jesus did in the comic and he was getting restless and he went on to do a prodigal son on, on, on Fox. I liked prodigal son actually. I think he was in one of those CSI shows or something like that. And he's been in a couple of movies and stuff. So hope he has a great career.

[00:13:47] I will say, uh, Jesus had one of the, the best and most shocking deaths. Like I did not see that coming and it was a really good, um, setup and the episode was just dark and eerie. And the intro of the whispers. Yeah. Yeah. It was a great way to, uh, introduce, uh, these new villains. And I, I couldn't believe what I was seeing.

[00:14:14] He loved it too. He was like, yeah, I'm glad I got to go out like that. And I guess that's true of a lot of deaths that I, I mean, there's a lot of deaths on walking dead that I didn't see coming. That's good. Yeah. You want to be surprised, I suppose, unless it's Carl's and then you just don't want it to happen.

[00:14:33] Um, I thought of this episode as a light one. I, I just kept thinking of Jesus and Rick and Daryl running around flailing their arms and I had the Benny Hill music going in my head. And I said that on the podcast and I, there is a video where there's Benny Hill music and it's sped up set to it on YouTube.

[00:14:57] I'll put a link to that in the show notes too. I wonder if they heard us talking about it or if that's just naturally what people thought of when they saw that. I don't know. But anyway, um, I just thought it was a fun, goofy episode. And then of course the Michonne and Rick thing at the end is super momentous, but I'm watching it again this time. I was really touched by it. I found myself feeling really emotional in a lot of different parts. So it was a light episode, but it was very, very moving too. So I loved it so much. Yeah.

[00:15:26] Okay. Claire, would you like to go first? What's your first point? Well, um, I, uh, my first point, I guess is you really like to talk Jason about Maslow's hierarchy of needs. And I thought that was illustrated really well in this episode. Um, and then just to the, the basic need is, uh, uh, biological requirements, food, sleep, things that keep the human body.

[00:15:56] Then after that, we have safety, the desire, desire for a particular, predictable and secure life protection from danger. And then after that love and belongingness, the emotional need for connection through friendships, intimacy, uh, esteem needs is next. The pursuit of self-respect and the desire for status recognition and appreciation from the people around you.

[00:16:15] And then the, um, um, tip of the, uh, the, uh, pyramid is self-actualization, the personal drive to reach your full potential, grow your talents and find true self-fulfillment. And I saw, um, really all of the characters in this episode, it different parts of this, uh, uh, uh, pyramid, this hierarchy, uh, um, they're not running for their lives.

[00:16:41] You know, uh, we just saw them, uh, in the, uh, uh, uh, the six, six mid-season finale, just trying to stay alive. Basic needs being met. Carl just trying to be repaired because he's just been shot. You know, everybody, uh, Glenn is, you know, on his eighth life. Um, just everyone is so in danger in that last episode. And in this episode, there's room to breathe.

[00:17:10] There's room to grow. And the walking dead always has something I've always appreciated about the walking dead is the way they have let their characters grow and change. Um, I just, they've done a really beautiful job of everybody at their own pace, uh, with their own, uh, things to overcome. Um, and I just saw a lot of growth from everybody, um, on this, in this episode.

[00:17:36] Uh, so especially, uh, and some of the things I wrote down, there was music in this episode that they were listening to, not, you know, background music. Obviously, um, they were eating well. Well, they call it diegetic or something where it's actually in the scene that people can hear it. Yeah. Music. I didn't know that. Thank you. Um, that's probably not the right word, but something like that. That sounds like a Scientology word, Jason, if I'm being honest. That's dynamics. Okay.

[00:18:06] Uh, uh, they were eating well. Rick puts another notch in his belt. Um, Carl's getting physical therapy. I mean, would Carl have done physical therapy if they were out on the road looking for water and food? There's jokes and sarcasm. There's photographs. Judith is wearing a dress. A dress seems like a luxury. Bath robes. Um, even being naked.

[00:18:28] I thought, you know, at the end of the episode, um, like before they probably never really even got the opportunity to take off their shoes or really have that level of, uh, of comfort, um, where they could just get undressed because they always had to be ready, ready to go. Um, reading comic books in the woods, uh, searching for things that are not absolute necessities like toothpaste and soda.

[00:18:55] And I even thought Spencer, uh, wandering through the woods to look for his mom shows that they're living in a greater, greater peace and comfort. So that was just a huge, uh, that this is the next world, you know, where they can have these, um, they've evolved. They can have these, these bigger things. So that was my big point. Love it. Yeah.

[00:19:17] I mean, these are the things when you think about the whole sort of pendulum of the walking dead, where it's, are we closer to the walking dead? Where we've lost our humanity. We're out here just surviving. We don't care who we kill or not, or do we keep our humanity? And the, the things that you're talking about are all sort of signs of humanity. You know, they're what people do when they have the space to, to do them.

[00:19:44] And that's why Michonne wanted to get to a place where they could have lives like this and experience all these kinds of things. So yeah, it's very fitting. And it's, it's a great, um, kind of gift at the end of this really hard, uh, series of episodes where they find a place. They think they're going to be able to do that, but they had to fight for it first. And now they've got it, you know, at least for a little while. Yeah. It's diegetic, by the way, I looked it up.

[00:20:11] Diagetic refers to elements within a fictional story world, such as sounds, music, or objects that characters can experience, hear, or interact with. One to grow on. That's awesome. What one is diabetic music? Diagenics. Is diagenics the Scientology one? Yeah, that's the Scientology one, right? Dianetics. Dianetics. Okay. Oh, there you go. Pool days call for cookouts and lots of laundry.

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[00:21:09] The Four Seasons is back for Season 2, starring Tina Fey, Will Forte, Coleman Domingo, Marco Calvani, Carrie Kenny Silver, and Erica Henningsen. After a difficult year, your favorite group of friends continues their tradition of vacationing together, now with a baby in tow. From the Jersey Shore to upstate New York and Italy, their getaways are sure to take unexpected turns where comedy ensues. Watch the Four Seasons May 28th only on Netflix. Tomorrow morning is knocking. Stock your fridge now.

[00:21:39] How about a creamy mocha frappuccino drink? Or a sweet vanilla? Smooth caramel maybe? Or a white chocolate mocha. Whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits. Find Starbucks frappuccino drinks wherever you buy your groceries. So, Lucy, what you got? Yeah, you know, I was kind of of a mind with Claire, but I'll talk a bit about the opening. Because I think the opening to this episode is great because it says so much with actually not a lot.

[00:22:07] And it always sticks up out in my head because, partly because of the absolute earworm of more than a feeling, which is just such a good, feel good song. Boston. That's my first concert my Aunt Vicky took me when I was 16. Was it in Boston? It was in Oakland. Aww. But, so, the things we can learn from that first scene, we know that food is scant because we see Rick is making a hole in his belt. So, clearly, the belt needs to be tighter.

[00:22:35] Therefore, we can assume that people aren't eating so much. We see that he's not wearing his wedding ring. So, there's been some movement there emotionally. We see that Carl is okay because we see a picture of him with an eye patch holding baby Judith. I think even having a family photo like that is exactly what Claire was talking about. It's, like, not something they would have been doing in the months prior. It's, like, a luxury to have that. Yeah, Rick is even thinking the church is a waste of time before. Yeah. Like, yeah.

[00:23:05] He's wearing a watch, which is a key marker of, sort of, civilization within The Walking Dead or, like, humanity. Um, and he puts that watch on, but not his wedding ring. Um, we see Judith is doing well. She's, like, wearing a cute little dress. She's playing with her cups and her ball. So cute. She's so cute. Yeah. She's stinking cute. She's probably the cutest she's ever been, I would say, at this point. With, um, I read, I went back today and read some reviews of the episode when it came out at the time.

[00:23:34] And one reviewer was, like, oh, the cold open soft launches Rick and Michonne as a couple. I'm, like, no, they haven't got together yet. I don't, I don't, I think this episode is them getting together. But he's, like, well, she comes in in her bathrobe and they, like, do this low five and stuff like that. And I'm, like, I think it's just they're close. I don't, I don't see this as, like, they, they were sleeping in the same bed sort of thing. No, I don't either. I mean, it's one of those couples maybe where other people are, like, you guys are already a couple. Stop pretending you're not, you know. And they're, like, what?

[00:24:05] But, like Claire says, like, the layer of that kind of wearing a bathrobe, Michonne with her hair up. Like, this is kind of the softest we've seen Michonne. I remember being quite shocked when I saw this just because we, we've never seen her kind of out of her armor. And by armor, I don't, you know, I don't mean literally the stuff she's wearing when we see her in the kind of start of the spinoffs. I'm talking more about just that iconic look that she has, that vibe. So it's a very kind of soft and gentle Michonne there.

[00:24:35] Rick is being silly. Like, he's winding Carl up. Like, when he calls him through. Yeah, I love that. They just want to take the piss a little bit. Pretending you couldn't hear him. Yeah. He's sweet with Judith. He's like, come on, sweetheart. It's just, it's this really idyllic, soft kind of domesticity. The low five is everything. Like, it's just, yes. Agreed. Yes. Can I? Yeah.

[00:25:00] I thought that he was adding a notch in his belt because they had been eating well. Oh, I like that in turn better. That makes sense. Rick got that. But it's possible. Don't get too soft, Rick. Yeah, because you know. I mean, I guess they are low on food, though. We do learn that in the next couple episodes that they are really, really running low on food.

[00:25:27] So maybe, I hadn't thought that maybe he was adding a notch to make it tighter. We'll have to go back and closely examine Andrew Lincoln and just figure it out. I think we'll find a solution to this. Well, ask Michelle. It depends on where the notch is. If it's closer to the inside of the belt, you know what I mean? If it's closer to the inside of the belt, that means you're getting skinnier. If it's right on the tip, that means you're getting fat. Yeah. Rick's just tying a piece of rope around his waist and hoping for the best.

[00:25:58] Empty packets of Cheetos all around him. I'm like, ah, Rick, man. He's like, you guys were right. I need to loosen up. Daryl's like, I told you not to rob that whole vending machine. And he's like, well. And yet we find out that Michonne, they're out of toothpaste, which is such a wonderfully basic domestic thing. It does make me wonder how they're brushing their teeth by the end of the show. It must be like, I know people use things like cassier root and things like that. I wonder if they're making their own toothpaste kind of powder or something.

[00:26:28] Just baking soda? Yeah, just baking soda. Although I found, I used a baking, tangent time. I used a baking soda toothpaste once. Turns out without the added fluoride, my teeth started hurting within like a week. Oh, wow. I have quite sensitive teeth, though. So it's kind of nasty, too, isn't it? No offense to anyone who does that. But yeah, it feels kind of weird. It's not very tasty, right? Yeah. So yeah, I just loved that intro. Loved everything that they established.

[00:26:51] I think you can tell this is, I think I read that this is an episode that kind of was conceived of between sort of Scott Gimple and the two leads, Andrew Lincoln and Norman Reedus. But Angela Kang wrote it. And I sort of think that's the best of both worlds. Oh, yes. Yeah, you can really feel the vibe of later seasons in this episode with where that's what I loved about when Angela Kang took over as showrunner.

[00:27:20] Suddenly I felt connected to the characters more and there's just more emotional moments. And this episode's really like that. I'm just going to double check that my intel is correct here because of it. She did write it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool. I was like, oh, I think she wrote it. But yeah, so I think it really is just playing to everyone's strengths. And yeah, that lightheartedness is established right at the start. So for me, yeah, I thought the opening was just, it makes me happy.

[00:27:47] Every time I hear that song now, I hear this episode. And I'll mention at this point, because it's not really a separate point, just something I noticed. I thought this episode was really well directed. I thought that opening scene was a great example of it. But there's a great mix of sort of wide shots and very intimate shots and sort of the way things are placed. And I'm sure we'll talk about these as we go through it. So the director was Carrie Scogland, who's gone on to do quite a lot for Apple TV. This was the first episode of The Walking Dead that she did.

[00:28:16] She also did one called Hostiles and Calamities in season seven, which is when Dwight goes back to where he and Sherry used to live. So I'm intrigued to watch that episode again through the lens of it being directed by the same person as this episode. Yeah, so that's me. The cold open for me was a real high point. And it's one of the few times, in fact, God, it may be the only time we see the Grimes family all together like this. In this kind of uninterrupted sort of happiness.

[00:28:46] I think we get glimpses of that in later seasons. Yeah. During the bridge era, when they're rebuilding the bridge, I think we get a lot of really tender. But not Carl. Oh my goodness. Thanks, Jason. Hey, you're the one who brought it up. Right, you're right, not Carl. Since I haven't been here, can I just rant for three seconds about that? Like, hate that. I hate that.

[00:29:15] I mean, especially just watching Carl recover from a gunshot wound to the eye. Oh. And then just like, oh, it kills me. It's awful. Behind the scenes and on the screen. It's no good. Definitely. I just feel like this was such a mistake by the showrunners, writers, whoever made these decisions too. Because, I mean, it feels so much like Carl's story.

[00:29:43] Every bit as much Carl's story as Rick's story. Yeah. Yeah. Because Rick just fought so hard to preserve his life. And we just see that over and over again. And then just to have him go. So, terrible, terrible move in my opinion. I would have loved to see in later seasons, like an adult Carl, you know, doing the same shenanigans with Daryl, you know? Totally. Just kind of taking the place of his father in the time jump. Yeah, right.

[00:30:12] Seven-year time jump. That's such a good, yeah. But then again, I wonder if Andrew Lincoln would have even left. Because I think one of the reasons he left, he said he went to see his family. Maybe that was the whole thing. But I know that he didn't like it that Chandler got the boot. And I think he was just sort of not happy about season seven and eight being a big slog. And he's like, okay, maybe that's enough for me.

[00:30:35] And then, because I remember when season nine came along and suddenly it was good again, Andrew Lincoln was like, it's good again? What? Maybe I should come back. So, all right. Let me do my first point. Just hearing all of us talk about how great this episode was. And Veronica and I were so in love with last week's episode too. I had been saying that season six, it wasn't really living up to where I thought I had it in my ranking of seasons.

[00:31:04] But now it's kind of back up there because these are like peak episodes we're seeing right now. I don't really remember how it goes from here. But these two really just put it on the map for me. Yeah. I'm so sorry to have missed that episode last week. But I'm glad that it was a good time had by all. Yeah. We miss you for sure, Veronica. Well, Veronica will just have to come back on another time then. Heck yeah. Okay.

[00:31:28] My number one is called Healing Lightness and Heart Opening because, you know, we've kind of already been talking about what a, I think, breath of fresh air this episode is. That we kind of needed after the intensity and trauma of the ones leading up to it. And it's good. That's one thing that's good about the zombie show that never ends is we can have a breath here for a second, you know, and it's kind of much needed. Like I'm glad The Walking Dead takes the time to do that and isn't just balls to the wall all the time.

[00:31:56] That's why I like the mouse episode with Carol. But the More Than a Feeling song is a feel-good song about recapturing the past, I think. So that's really appropriate. We see Rick fixing his broken watch, which I think is a metaphor for his own healing. And we hear later they've been rebuilding Alexandria and just everyone sort of healing. I think Rick's heart is open again.

[00:32:25] And I think the Alexandrians fighting for their home really turned him around on people, inspired him to see possibility in strangers again and to like expand that circle of care back out. I think everyone is more relaxed except Daryl.

[00:32:47] I think they wrote him as being more cynical as a counterpoint to Rick because the episode wanted to show Rick more at ease. So I was like, is that really in character? Because he's been kind of gung-ho about going out and finding people. But just to make it make sense, maybe you could say Daryl is maybe less at ease when everything's going so well because he's used to having to face challenges to survive. He's way less at ease when he's not in crisis mode, when he's not far at writing. Right.

[00:33:16] I love in the car. Can I say the last people Daryl met were the saviors on the road? Yeah. So that was his last encounter with strangers. That's a good point. Thank you. Because I was asking myself that same question. Why is Daryl so pessimistic about bringing strangers in now? And I thought of that. Yeah, that's great. He's like, okay, Rick, we'll find new people, but can I bring the rocket launcher just in case? My emotional support rocket launcher, please? I'll just have it right here just in case.

[00:33:46] I won't even load it until it's time. I loved when Rick started playing rockabilly music and Daryl's like, don't, please don't. There's like a teen underdad in the car like, no, not this tape again. Yeah, Rick's like snapping his fingers. It feels like a long overdue buddy episode for them, by the way. That's another great thing about this episode, the two of them together. I love it so much.

[00:34:12] But my favorite thing about the episode is that Rick is open to new people again. And there's a lot of indications of that when Daryl gets the orange soda and says this was a special request from the doctor. And Rick's like, hey, whatever she wants, she saved Carl's life. We didn't know her and she turned out to be all right. If there's still people out there and there's still people, we should bring him in.

[00:34:39] That's so different from where he was before. They find Jesus, you know, and he's stealing from them. And Daryl's like, oh, it's funny to me because Jesus comes in all sketchy, rams into him, makes up some story about zombies coming. But they're 11 minutes away. So why are you ramming into this guy then? And then they're both posturing. Jesus is like, you better not try anything. Daryl says, best not make threats you can't keep. Jesus says, exactly.

[00:35:09] And then Rick says, how many walkers? And Daryl's like, no, no, no, not this guy. We're used to, we always say Daryl's a good judge of character. This is one time when he wasn't, but it's hard to blame him because Jesus was being pretty sketchy. But Rick, he wants to bring the guy in. His heart has expanded. Then even after they, Jesus steals from them and they fight him and he's unconscious.

[00:35:36] Rick's the one who argues for taking him back because he says, hey, he helped you. Like he might have saved Daryl's life when he told him to duck and shot that zombie behind him. That's right at a Resident Evil game, by the way. But, and he never pulled a weapon on them. So I just love that Rick insists that they take him back. And then in the car, he says, he took a pretty hard hit. Denise needs to look him over. Daryl goes, yeah. He goes, you wouldn't have gone through with it. You wouldn't have left him.

[00:36:04] He goes, I would have right up in a tree. I would have. No, I know. As soon as we got to Alexandria, you got it. You saw you and Michonne, Glenn, Jason Cabassi, that podcaster. You all tried to tell me. Nope. Not a lot of people remember he said that, but anyway, he goes, so shut up. I remember Jason. And so, I mean, saying that, he's straight up saying, I lost my way, at least to some degree. He's saying that. And now he says, I'm finally listening.

[00:36:34] And then later in the episode, Daryl says, you know, you said we shouldn't be looking for people. You were right. And Rick's like, no, I was wrong. You were right. So just all of that shows that he's turned around on trusting and caring about people that he doesn't know yet. And I'm just to put a point on it. I just think there's different versions of Rick. And as a stranger, I wouldn't want to meet all of them.

[00:37:00] There's the version that would leave the orange backpack guy begging for a ride stranded by the side of the road who ended up dead later. There's the version who would meet a guy like Aaron, who's clearly a good person offering to help and knock him unconscious. Can't blame him. He has PTSD. He just met Gareth, who seemed like a similar guy. I'm just saying, like, you know, they all have PTSD. And how do they respond to it?

[00:37:25] There's a version before the Savior War started who direct his people to go into their barracks and kill them in their sleep. And there's this version who even after this random guy stole his truck full of food, he still took him back to his home to care for him. And he turned out to be an upstanding ally in all of this. And that's the same version of Rick, who at the end of the Savior War would integrate the saviors into his own group.

[00:37:49] And so I just remember leading up to this episode, one of the reasons why I was so uncomfortable with Rick. Loved it. Loved the storytelling. I wouldn't change a thing. But just as a character, he gave off this vibe. I've said this before of my stepdad, who was not a good person. And, you know, it's not totally like that. Like Rick was trying his best to protect the people that he cared about. But he just had that, like, darkness about him.

[00:38:18] And people all around him could see it, you know. They tried to, like he's saying in this episode, you tried to tell me. And he was just so hurt, so wounded, like a wounded animal. And this is the first episode where I don't feel that at all. I feel like, oh, yeah, he would be a good person to be around. I would want to be part of this man's group, you know. So that's, it's just a relief to have him get back to that, at least for a while. Still hasn't killed all those people in their sleep. But.

[00:38:48] Oh, don't worry. He's only got, I would say, two episodes to go before that happens. So, you know, it'll be fine. But it just, it's so, it feels so good to see him like this. I love it. I love that he said, fuck this guy as well. That made me laugh. Or at least in the version I watched, he said, fuck this guy about Jesus, which I thought was quite funny. Oh, I thought you said, oh yeah, because at the end when he's saying that to Daryl, we need to bring people back. And he goes, oh, like this guy?

[00:39:16] And I thought you just said, no, no, not this guy. No, there were two versions filmed, I think. And in the Blu-ray version, it came out as fuck this guy. Yeah, I just, because when I was watching it, because we're used to more swears now in the spinoffs and stuff. And I was like, oh, okay. And then I thought about it later. And I was like, oh, that's unusual. You don't usually get to see the F-bomb. So, yeah, it made me laugh. Funny.

[00:39:38] I just think that's such a good point of Rick and the lightness he has in this episode, juxtaposition with, you know, all the dark moments he's had in the past and that we know he'll have in the future. And it just, I mean, it's really mirrors real life. Because, I mean, I'm a minister at my church. And, you know, I always try and be really authentic with the people I'm ministering to.

[00:40:05] And let them know that I'm not perfect and that I have struggles and dark parts of my own life. And, I mean, we're such complex humans. We're so, there's so many, and maybe this is just so obvious, but I just think that, I like that Rick is so layered. And I like that so many of the characters on this show are so layered and nobody is one person all the time.

[00:40:33] And there's different versions of each of us, too. And even if there is, there are some people who seem to have their shit together more than most. And, you know, probably if you got to know them, you'd find their demons or whatever. But, you know, people to differing degrees have their stuff together. And even the ones who have it together the most, I don't know if I want to see a TV show about that person.

[00:40:58] I want to see the person who has some challenges and doesn't always rise to the occasion and then eventually does. You know what I mean? Like, it's more interesting to see people who are more complicated. That's how I feel anyway. Okay, Claire, your turn. My second point is just all the different connections between some of the characters. I do love the buddy cop vibe of Rick and Daryl.

[00:41:24] It's just so fun to watch throughout the whole episode. And they play it so well. You can tell that Rick and Daryl, Andrew Lincoln and Norman Reedus, like this is probably very similar to how they are in real life. And Jason, I think I sent you the glitter prank that Daryl Dixon did to Andrew Lincoln years ago, obviously.

[00:41:54] But they just really like pranking each other. If you haven't looked, if you haven't seen that, listeners, look up Norman Reedus glitter pranking Andrew Lincoln. And then Andrew Lincoln tries to do it back to him and fails miserably. And so it's just really fun. You can see that dynamic in the two of their real lives. I just remembered. Sorry. It's so bad. Well, because Norman Reedus got him so good.

[00:42:22] He put like glitter in the vents of his car so that after a hot day, Andrew Lincoln would turn on the AC, full blast, obviously. And then glitter just went everywhere in his car, stuck to him because he was all sweaty. It was genius. And then Andrew Lincoln tries to get him back and it just, it's a flop. Reedus is a natural. He would like let off stink bombs at, you know, panels and stuff like that, which is not cool, but whatever.

[00:42:52] As a nation, we're not good at pranking. I feel like Americans, you guys are better pranksters. I feel like we either pitch it way too dark or like not effective enough. So I feel like it tracks that Andrew Lincoln might not be very good at it. Yeah. You're too sophisticated for that. Well, I'm glad that Andrew Lincoln didn't leave like dead rabbits in Norman Reedus' car. Oh my gosh. Can you imagine? Right. That was dark. Ha ha.

[00:43:21] That, you know, a friend of mine, when I used to work at Apple, he, I think he had to get a tooth removed and he had it that day and it had like a little blood on the end and he put it on our friend Jill's computer as a joke. Oh. And she was like, no, that's not okay. That's so funny. Wow.

[00:43:46] The best prank ever played on me was 24 years ago when my youngest was two and he, my, my oldest son was on oxygen and had all these health problems. Well, my sister thought it would be really funny to like push his walker down the stairs. Um, he wasn't in it obviously. Yeah. Oh my gosh. He wasn't in it, but she pushed his walker down the stairs and then screamed and yelled, oh my gosh, Sam.

[00:44:11] And I keep running and nearly, and I was crying. I thought, I said, what is wrong with you? That's not funny. Oh my gosh. And, yeah. Yeah. And, but I mean, it's hilarious now. I mean, it's been hilarious ever since like the next day. Yeah. So, but it was not funny then. That was one of those dark pranks, I guess the Brits are known for. Yeah.

[00:44:38] We, I mean, yeah, I think there were, I don't even know if it was a prank, but we found it really funny. It was a friend of ours. We were all on holiday together and his partner couldn't come. They occasionally listen to this podcast. So I hope, I hope they're listening to this episode. Um, I'm not going to name names. Um, they were sad that their partner couldn't come with them on this holiday. So we were at this like beautiful beach in the middle of nowhere in Scotland. And this person wrote their partner's name on the sand with a heart around it.

[00:45:06] And it was very sweet, but it was like too sweet for us. Really? This is too nice. It's too genuine. So, uh, Peter, myself and another friend, when the other person wasn't looking, changed the heart into a ball sack and made it a big penis with the person's partner in it. And like took lots of pictures and thought it was really funny. To this day, that friend still does not find this funny. It's like, we can't talk about it without crying, laughing. And he's just like story-faced. Like, it's funny. Unless you're the object of it. He's like, that's terrible.

[00:45:35] They're going to think I did that. They're going to think I did that. And I'm like, they're obviously not going to think you did that. They're going to know it was us. But yeah, it's one of those things where I'm like, to this day, we still find it hilarious. The other person does not. They're like, no, that was really unfair what you guys did. So as I say, as a nation, we're not good at pranking. It doesn't work. Claire, do you have any more pranks you'd like to tell us about? No more pranks. No more pranks. I'll share this time. But just the different connections. I like that.

[00:46:05] Like I was saying, I liked Rick and Daryl. And just the lightness and comfort they had with each other. Familiarity. I liked the connection between Carl and Michonne. At the end of the episode, when they have that heart-to-heart. And I think, does Carl say you're my best friend? I think he does say that to Michonne. I don't know that. I feel like he does. He definitely says, I would do, it should be someone that loves them. I would do that for you. Oh, you know what?

[00:46:35] I'm thinking of another episode. I think maybe it's the episode when he, yes. Okay. So nice. I'm getting it all mixed up. But they have a definite moment together. I like Daryl and Denise where they have, they're talking to each other in the beginning of the episode. And like, they just don't speak each other's language. And it's so funny because Denise is talking with her hands and Daryl's like. It's awkward. Yeah. It's so awkward. Embarrassed to be asking. She's so good, Merritt Weaver.

[00:47:02] I mean, when Daryl going around getting what everyone wants for the supply run, I loved it because he's hard to read and he's a little scary sometimes. And they're just like, how about this? Like Eugene's like the sorghum and she's like, oh, maybe the orange. And well, I guess those are the only two. Then Michonne asked Rick for the toothpaste. But with Daryl, he's did one other person ask him for something. I forget.

[00:47:32] Anyways, you kind of wonder if he's kind of annoyed, but it turns out, no, he's just taking it in and then he's going to fucking commit and do his best. And he got all of it. It ended up in the lake, but I love that he. And then when he like tied the vending machine to the truck to turn it over so he could get the soda out. And Rick's like, it's just candy and soda. Why are you going all that trouble? And he goes, that's not any trouble. It made me love Daryl all the more, you know?

[00:48:03] So good. And it's Denise. They're like, if it's for Denise, we can, we'll do it for Denise. The doctor gets what she wants, which is lovely. Oh, yeah. That was nice of Rick to say that. Well, and it's nice to see Rick really see the value of the Alexandrians because he didn't see it. Until, you know, probably the mid-season finale when they all step up. Absolutely. Yeah. That changed everything.

[00:48:32] I think that's really what turned him around. He's like, okay, people who I don't know aren't absolute shit. They might actually be able to do something. Do you guys call it? What do you call the kind of thing you get from a can? I call it soda. Okay. I call it soda. When I was a kid, I called it pop though. I don't know why I called it pop when I think that's in the. It's regional. That's what, yeah. They call it different things.

[00:49:02] They call it Coke in the South, I guess. Yeah. No matter what. Oh, really? Pepsi or root beer. They just call it Coke. There's bits of Coke. Yeah. Probably like all the listeners from the South are like, I don't call it Coke. In Glasgow, they used to call all fizzy drinks ginger, like a bottle of ginger, which I found quite funny. But generally, we just call them fizzy drinks. But where I was in Canada, it was soda. So I have picked up saying soda as a generic catch all for those things.

[00:49:30] But do you remember a few years back, I think it was the New York Times did a crazy accurate test of like, it was like 100 questions. But it could pinpoint like exactly where you were from. And it was spooky accurate. It was about, you're asking, how do you pronounce these different words? Yeah. And yeah, what do you call this? And then it would give three possible cities that you might live in. It was wild. And it fucking got mine. Modesto, California. Wow. Isn't it wild? I was amazed. Yeah.

[00:49:58] I was so sure because I was like, oh, yeah, this test isn't going to work. And then I did it because they did a UK one. And I was like, holy shit, that's really accurate. Incredible. I probably got my IP address. No, I wasn't in Modesto at the time, though. Yeah. No, that's the thing. I did it when I was in Switzerland. So I don't know why they thought where they thought I was from. But yeah, I just thought it was cute that Denise pointed out that she was from Iowa originally. And that's why she called it presumably pop. And Daryl did not know what she was talking about. He was like, you mean Coke? Yeah. You mean a bottle of ginger? Yeah. Like, yeah.

[00:50:29] Fizzy drinks? Fizzy drinks. Fizzy drinks. Fizzy drinks. And then I'll have one more connection, character connection, that will be my third point. If you want to take a guess at what it might be. I think I might know what it is. This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking. Maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin. Saving homes without expecting to get them.

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[00:51:56] Come share the warmth of stories passed down through generations. This is a place with a past that is fully present today and all yours to explore. Plan your Scottish escape today at Expedia.com slash Visit Scotland. Lucy? I'm just having a look. I just wanted to give a moment. This isn't my point. I just wanted to give a moment to Josh McDermott saying moving things from scary to hunky donkey.

[00:52:25] I just have a feeling that that scene would have broken everyone in it. Like the way they were playing it. I was like, this feels like a scene where they've all broken in previous takes and they're trying really hard not to break. But there's this look of absolute like confusion and disgust that Rick gives Eugene that I just find hilarious in this moment. So congrats to Josh McDermott for really bringing that to the table.

[00:52:52] I will talk about the other things that are going on that are not Rishon. I'm going to let Claire have the joy of Rishon. So let's talk about Carl and Enid. Carl has a really lovely arc in this episode. I don't even know if it is an arc so much as Carl just showing how much he's grown. Yeah. The moment of peace with him and Enid.

[00:53:18] Just as much as Rick and Michonne are very comfortable together and well-established chemistry, Carl and Enid have a similar kind of comfort level with one another where they're sitting reading comic books in the woods, sharing snacks and quiet. I just think it's a really nice vibe the two of them have. And I loved in later seasons, Enid still talks about Carl. And I think that's, it's important to note that that was actually quite an important relationship for both of them. But isn't she sort of in a depression?

[00:53:48] That's what it seemed like to me. I think, I think she's a teenage girl. I mean her story, you know, she's been sort of sullen. She lost her parents. We find out she doesn't want to get too attached to people because she doesn't want to lose them. But then Glenn convinces her to go in and fight anyway. And she does and they succeed. So you sort of, then you get this light episode where it's like, Oh, everybody's happy and making the most of it. And yet she's not. And I feel like there's something, I don't remember her story except for the end,

[00:54:16] but I do remember that she eventually does come out of this funk. So I feel like we're going to see how later on in the season, but that that's more what, like you're saying that they felt comfortable and I totally agree. But also I just felt like she's got kind of a Lenny James wouldn't like this, but dark cloud over her in this episode. Yeah. I think the nice thing is that Carl never forces her to be anything different. Like they're able to still hang around together. And I find that really nice. He's easy to be around. Yeah.

[00:54:44] And she's obviously figuring bits of herself. Like we have this interaction with Maggie at the start of the episode. They're talking about Maggie's in kind of full big sister mode. Shout out to Maggie. I think this is the last time we see her properly happy. Full stop. Ever. Like I think this is it. You're right. Trying to draw Enid out. It was a really sweet moment. And it made me think, I wonder if she's, you know, use that with Beth. Yeah.

[00:55:14] It felt very big sister-y. And it sticks with Enid because she says to Carl that she thinks she might be done going out. I was thinking it's kind of like going to the mall for them. Like there's no mall. So they go to the books to read comic books. And she hurts Carl when she says, you know, I don't think I want to do this anymore. Carl's kind of like, we're kids. It's what we do. And Enid is kind of like, well, I don't know if it is what we do anymore. But it comes to this, this tension between them. He's reading Invincible. Shout out to Robert Kirk.

[00:55:43] Which I wish that Mark Grayson in Invincible could read The Walking Dead, but I think he's not allowed to for copyright reasons. Oh, that's annoying. I don't know for sure. So in terms of Carl's growth, he's kind of sad and mad with Enid, but they see Michonne and Spencer coming into the woods together. And Carl just has this deep understanding of what Spencer is going through. And he also has learned from his own mistakes in the past of not leaving a walker.

[00:56:14] Michonne's out here. I'm not leaving it after what happened to Dale because he left the walker. Sorry. That eventually bites Dale. And that's obviously a huge learning moment for him. But he understands inherently that Spencer needs to do this for himself. He's kind of like a guardian angel, really. He just pulls Deanna, gently leads her into that path and lets Spencer have that moment of catharsis. And is able to explain it to Michonne in a way that isn't, it's quite adult. It's not angry teenager Carl.

[00:56:44] He's frustrated with her, but he's not unreasonable. And he plays a blinder when he says, I love you. I do it for you. And then he's no longer grounded. So that was clever of him. She's treating him like a kid, scolding him. And he's like, wait a minute. I, I'm doing exactly what you would have done. And, uh, he's acting like a grownup and she, she buys it, you know, I mean, that sounds like it's not true. It is true. Like, she's like, oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. You're right.

[00:57:14] But then when she leaves, he's like, see, Judith, but no, it's lovely. And they have this lovely hug on the porch. And yeah, I just, I thought Carl was great in this episode. Um, fun fact in the IMDB dive, one of the facts, I don't know who wrote this. It just says Chandler Riggs said, this was a very difficult episode for him to act. I was like, all right, it's called acting. You did, you did pretty good.

[00:57:43] I don't think it was any better or worse than any other performances really. But, um, yeah, no, it was, it was great. I enjoyed Carl a lot in this episode. Me too. Yeah. Same. I'm glad he, he held it. He, um, stuck to his guns with Michonne there. And that was just a beautiful moment and made me feel like he's growing up and he's, Chandler Riggs is 16 there. And my son, Nico's catching up to Carl. He'll be 15 in July. So I think about that, you know, they look kind of similar. So wild, right now,

[00:58:13] like your point about Maggie checking in with Enid and it just reminds me, like if you, uh, I'm in youth ministry and it's so important to check in with people frequently, see how they're doing, especially teenagers. Um, a lot of them are so isolated and have a lot of obviously mental health issues that they, um, are often unequipped to deal with. So it's really important to be available to them and just check in on them. And so it was nice to see Maggie doing that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Uh,

[00:58:42] and another thing about Carl sort of feeling grown up is he's just sitting there holding baby Judith earlier in the episode, showing her the North star. That was so adorable. And, uh, it's just really sweet and, and, and sad because you know what happens to Carl and Judith too. Like, I can't help but think of how great she is. You know, when Kaylee, uh, Kaylee Fleming comes in, is that her name? Kaylee Fleming? Yeah. And, um,

[00:59:13] but then she, you know, as a baby, she lost her mother, Lori, and, you know, even her biological father, Shane, I, I, I just, I don't buy the, that's, there's any chance that's not the case, but whatever. Uh, then her brother, she loses her brother. She loses her real father, Rick for years. Then for a while, she loses Michonne because, um, didn't I grow? I wanted to go off and do movies, which is totally understandable. Then, um,

[00:59:40] she loses Daryl cause Daryl goes to France and then Carol goes to France. And I'm just like, man, this poor kid. Like, you know, if you know anything about attachment theory, the way you relate to people when you get older, it has a lot to do. At least people think with how strongly connected you felt to your caregivers when you were younger. And I,

[01:00:06] you wouldn't be surprised in her situation if she would just sort of not trust that people will stick around throughout her life. You know, who knows? I mean, she seems like a pretty together, strong person, so I doubt they would write her that way, but I just feel bad that all these, just because of characters, actors leaving, they all happen to be the caregivers of, of Judith. Fucking sucks, man. And then on top of that, RJ never goes away. Yeah. Yeah. Why couldn't,

[01:00:37] kidding. That's proof that Clara listens to this show. Yeah. Okay. All right. My turn. I want to talk about Rick and Michelle. No, I'm just kidding. I want to talk about, uh, Spencer getting closure. Talk about Rick and Michelle. No, no, it's your big deal, right? You talk about them all the time. I want to talk about Spencer getting closure, um, where Michelle sees him going into the woods and follows to find out what he's doing.

[01:01:05] And I think she feels a connection to him because she had that connection with Deanna at the end there. And, um, finds out eventually that he's been walking around looking for his zombie mother and he wants to kill and bury her, which is, um, a good impulse. I think get some closure, pay respect to her, not let her. I mean, I always think about, I don't know if he's thinking this, but being a zombie doesn't seem like that much fun. So, uh,

[01:01:35] maybe it's painful, you know? Um, then yeah, Carl sees, uh, Michonne Spencer, then sees the, sees zombie Deanna. Although we didn't know, what did you guys think about the way they did that? Where we didn't know it was her at first. Cause they wanted the reveal to be, I guess when she came face to face with Spencer. So you're like, what's he doing? Why doesn't he kill that zombie? Gosh, that was so long ago that I watched it. I know. It's so hard to put my brain in that place. I'm like, right.

[01:02:05] It was a little, I think it would be a little confusing, but anyway, um, he leads Deanna to Spencer and Spencer pulls out his knife and kind of kills her gently with anguish and buries her. And I just think it's such a great moment with them because it takes advantage of this being a zombie show. I, I always think that's one of the reasons why I gravitated towards zombie movies,

[01:02:34] because it's so heartbreaking to see and scary to see this person that was your loved one or your friend turn into this monster. And it's sad. And, uh, made me think, I tried to go back and think about all the ones in the walking dead where we saw somebody turn and confront a loved one. So the ones I have are Morgan and his wife, Jenny in the pilot, um, Amy with Andrea, Sophia with Carol, of course. Um,

[01:03:04] Rick and Carl was Shane kind of at the end there, Merle and Daryl. Michonne's pets who were her boyfriend and friend though. Actually, we didn't find that out until later. Uh, I guess Sasha was Maggie. I don't remember who was there with Sasha. I mean, I know Negan was there, but I think Maggie might've been there. Um, Aaron with Eric. I remember Aaron seeing Eric. Oh yeah. Shambling around in the distance. And then I couldn't really think of any others past that.

[01:03:32] So it feels like they stopped doing it. Herschel. Michonne finds Herschel. Oh, that's true. Yeah. And it's a really sad moment when she puts him down. Right. He got, he got killed twice. Um, so this is going to be kind of maybe kind of morbid. I don't know. I'm sorry ahead of time if people think that, but my mom passed recently and I went to,

[01:03:59] to the facility where she had been and her body was lying in bed with a sheet over it. And it was just me and her in the room. They're just like, yeah, she's in there. And so I went in and I pulled the sheet back to look at her one last time. And with all this walking dead in my head, all these years, I couldn't help but imagine her reanimating kind of freaked me out a little bit. So I, you know, try to put that out of my head. I touched her forehead and it was cold.

[01:04:28] And I pulled the sheet back over. And that was the last time I saw her. So this moment with Spencer kind of hit me hard with his mom. Yeah. Jason, thanks for sharing that. That was one of the things that really touched me about this episode, you know, and it's these two characters that most people don't really care that much about, but. Oh, I love Deanna, man. I love them both too. I, I, yeah. The, I can't get it out of my head. It's funny the connections we find.

[01:04:59] I mean, I liked her a lot more in this rewatch, just paying closer attention to her character, you know, she catalyzes a lot of stuff. Um, yeah, it's hard. I think, I think a lot of things once you've been through a bereavement like that hit so much differently. Like it, you rewatching the same thing with just this whole layer of perspective. I mean, I struggle a bit with Spencer because I think he looks really distractingly like Ricky Martin. So every time he's on the screen,

[01:05:27] I'm like making puns about living La Vida Loca. And I'm like, I really need to stop doing this because it's impeding my enjoyment. Austin Nichols. He, I get the Austins mixed up, but he, uh, he was another good guy, grounded, um, sincere. And he, he was in that, um, psycho show that they did. Bates motel. Bates motel. Yeah. It was a big, big part of the last season of Bates motel. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway,

[01:05:57] um, I, I, I thought this was a very good episode for him, but I can't help but think of how he dies, where he betrays Rick to Negan. And then he's the worst slices him from, you know, open because of it. And it's just like, I feel so bad for him though. In that moment when Negan did that, like, of course, I know, I don't know why, but I, maybe because he's so handsome, but, but can I say also Deanna? Um, I just,

[01:06:25] I loved her character because she gave, uh, Rick and Michonne and Maggie, like, uh, kind of a, a platform to, uh, grow and expand and hope and dream. And, you know, for the, back to the, you know, hierarchy of needs, she kind of planted that in them. And so I think her character, I always liked her. Yeah. She, she really,

[01:06:55] uh, put that drive in them to want more. And so that's, I, I think that makes her character, um, very valuable to, to our, our favorite characters. She was good at empowering women. Yes. And empowering people. Like she was very good at kind of coaching and pointing out people's strengths. Yeah. And Tova Feld, she made an amazing zombie. She gave it everything. Yeah. I think she loved that. I think. Yeah. I remember her saying that. I can't remember for sure.

[01:07:26] All right. Where's, who's next? Claire? Luke, is it already? Oh yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. Here's the moment. Here we go. Um, so I did a little Rick and Michonne history. Cause obviously my third point is Rick and Michonne. Um, uh, I will start back in season three. Uh, Michonne came into their lives almost immediately after Rick and Carl lose Lori. I think that's significant. Rick is terrible to Michonne.

[01:07:56] I, I don't know why he is so awful to Michonne when she first shows up. I mean, she's got formula in her hand and he still just doesn't trust her and treats her like garbage. this time watching through on the rewatch though, I, I, I, maybe I could have just been adding something that wasn't there, but even though he was at odds with her, I felt some heat even in that this time. Uh, you know, you're not wrong. You're not wrong. Um,

[01:08:25] but like he even like pokes her in her bullet wound, like, cause she doesn't talk fast enough. And like when, when she first, when they first bring her in, he's just, he's just kind of cruel to her. And then obviously betrays her to the governor. Um, but then changes his mind and she forgives him, which I think is, speaks to Michonne's character and just, uh, what a good person she is. And so she forgives Rick and says, you know, I think something like anybody would have done the same thing. And,

[01:08:54] um, he's like, well, if he hadn't had the formula and she says, you could have just taken the formula. And he's like, well, in this really adorable way, he's like, well, it must've been something else. And so, so I, that's when I first saw the sparks kind of after they resolve, um, um, the governor will for that season. Um, when, when, uh, Michonne comes back from, uh, Merle kidnapping her, um, she comes back and forgives Rick and he has just the flirtiest look. And then in season four,

[01:09:25] we see, uh, just this budding friendship with Carl and Rick both, but not that much in the first half, but the second half of season four, Rick and Michonne and Carl are on the road together. And you can just see their, um, when it's just the three of them, their relationships, really have time to grow. And, uh, all of the, their relationships just deepen and their dependence on each other just draws them together in such an intimate way. And by the end of season four, um, when,

[01:09:54] you know, Rick bites, uh, Joe, the claimers throw it out and to protect Michonne and Carl, which everybody says, that's a big deal. I would easily bite someone's throat out to protect my child. Um, yeah, I'm pretty sure most people agree that he did the right thing, but it's just kind of striking. It is striking. Right. I think most people think like, nobody's like, Oh, you shouldn't have done that. I don't think. Okay, good. I don't know. Cause I'm, I'm pro biting the necks out of people who bring harm to my children. Um,

[01:10:24] so by the end of season four, I was sailing the high seas on the Rick and Michonne ship big time. Like I was all for it, but still, like I said, didn't really think it was going to happen. Season five, we see Rick and Michonne's friendship deepen. By now they're working in perfect sync with one another. You know, they just give the eyes to each other sometimes and they know what the other one wants them to do. Uh, they work so well and better than that. They, they really listened to each other and Rick doesn't really greatly. Yeah. And I don't think,

[01:10:54] um, maybe not since Herschel has Rick really had someone lead him and kind of help him to be all he can be as a leader. So we see that Michonne, I really like in the episode. Um, I think it's the distance. Maybe it's the one after that where, um, Michonne Rick's like, no, we can't trust Aaron. And Michonne's like, no, this is what we're doing. And, yeah.

[01:11:19] And she kind of takes the reins out of Rick's hands because she can see that he's sabotaging them. And, um, they just, she, he listens to her, uh, by the end of season five, I love the way Rick and Michonne see each other differently. Are they finding themselves attracted to each other in the calm of their newfound safety at Alexandria? I love the looks they give each other when they see, um, one another in their constable uniforms. I don't know if you guys remember that. Like they both give each other eyes. And I'm like, Oh,

[01:11:48] what's going on here? They giving me what I want. Um, and then, um, I can't remember which episode I didn't write, which episode, but where Michonne finds out that Rick and Daryl and Carol have been plotting against the Alexandrians. And Michonne comes to see Rick when he's kind of being held prisoner. And they just have this great intimate moment where I almost thought they were going to kiss then, but then Rick, uh, confesses to Michonne what's going on. And, um,

[01:12:17] she's like, I would have, I would have done what you wanted. Like, you just, just tell me. And he felt just this heaviness from keeping the secrets, all these secrets from Michonne. And they just kind of get back on the same page. Um, but alas, here comes Unnecessary. Uh, season six, there's not much to their relationship in season six in the beginning. Um, it, I mean, they're all running for their lives, but Rick seems far more interested in Jesse than Michonne. Um, I,

[01:12:48] I, I think the whole point of Jesse was just a red herring from the writers to throw us off the set of what they were really trying to do. Um, and, and I, I, I like that they did that. They, they put Rick with someone who was just more conventionally, uh, who you would see on a, on a big TV show. Um, you know, someone like Jesse who, um, which I really love Alexandra Breckenridge. She's, um, in, uh, in Virgin river, which, uh,

[01:13:17] Austin, what's his name? Who plays Spencer? Nichols. Nichols. Austin Nichols just showed up on the last season of Virgin river. Um, and I just love Alexandra Breckenridge. So I do love her. I love, uh, Alexandra Breckenridge. And I actually really liked Jesse, you know, uh, I don't, I'm don't, there's no need for me to hate on her, but I was so disappointed. Uh, when the, when they put the two of them together, I just thought, I just thought, well, they're, my ship is sailing off. My Rick and Michonne ship is sailing off.

[01:13:47] And even when she was killed in last week's episode that we watched, I, it was, it was really heartbreaking to see this devastation that Rick felt. Um, I wasn't thinking, Oh, yay. Now he can be with Michonne. Yeah. As she's get, as he's, uh, chopping her hand off. Um, I am have to say, I wasn't on last week's episode, but I, I kind of laughed at all of his flashbacks were from within about 48 hours. Like that really cracked me up. It was like, Oh, Oh no. Remember when she smiled at me at the party?

[01:14:17] And then later at the party, she smiled at me again. At the party. I was like, Oh, it's funny. It is funny, but you also lose the potential and you lose the future and the hope that you have in that relationship. So yes. Or even just the care of the person, like what she could have been to the group and everything. Yeah. So I understand why Rick was sad, but you're right. There weren't many flashbacks. I mean, this whole season has been like three days. So yeah. Yeah. He's really wrecking his brains.

[01:14:47] There's like, Oh, when did I, Oh yeah. The party. Yeah. That was, um, and then sprinkled throughout these four seasons, we see Michonne and Carl's relationship grow into such a beautiful and needed friendship. She listens to Carl and preserves his innocence and Carl grounds her to family and all that's worth living for. And you can tell they bring each other a lot of joy. Uh, I like, I love the squeeze cheese. Michonne pretends to be a zombie. They're just playful.

[01:15:15] They affirm each other in a way. Yeah. They're just good for each other. And so I think that just adds this other layer to Rick and Michonne's relationship. Like, man, if you're good to my kids, this is me speaking. If you are someone who is good to my kids, like you're someone I want in my life. And I think Rick can see like the value, um, that Michonne brings to the lives of his children. And, um, it's just so beautiful. And then I, I think I remember you saying,

[01:15:45] which I don't want to make you feel bad, Jason, that the, that, that Rick and Michonne, when they first hook up, it's kind of awkward. Is that what I think it's, I think it's adorable. I don't think it's awkward or clunky. I think it's kind of realistic and, and sweet because I think, you know, in Hollywood, they want to make everything look perfect and the lighting just right. And, you know, Rick forgets that he has his gun in his pocket. So he has to like, get off and move it. And it is,

[01:16:14] it is a little awkward, but I, I kind of, I kind of like it, you know, maybe he hasn't kissed a girl. Well, I guess he did just kiss that long ago. It's going to say he hasn't kissed a girl in a while, but, um, you know, but it's so different. Like Jesse doesn't hold a candle to Michonne as far as what, um, she brought to Rick's life. Like Michonne is Michonne. Oh yeah. Not to disparage Jesse at all, but like that, that's Michonne.

[01:16:42] And so I just love them together. And I loved that this finally happened. And I probably, when I first, when it first happened, rewound my DVR seven, eight, nine, 10 times. I don't know. And, uh, and I know you, you two know this, but I've written a lot of fan fiction, which is just a funny part of my life that, it seems like another person's life. If you want to give me a link to that, I can put it in the show notes, by the way, for people to check out if they want.

[01:17:12] I'd love to. Um, but probably I haven't written fan fiction probably five years, but for about five years, that's, that was my, my outlet. And I just, I, I found that I read fan fiction. I'm like, Oh, this is terrible. A lot of it. Like people don't know how to write or put two sentences together. No, no offense to any bad fan fiction writers, but I said, I bet I could do better. And then I started and I could not stop. I could not stop. And I wrote probably,

[01:17:43] I don't know, 150 chapters of fan fiction and three different stories. And a lot of it was about, yeah, all about the walking dead, all about this world. Cause there's a lot of fan fiction that it's like, Oh, Rick and Michonne meet it kind of like, uh, the, in the ones who live where they meet in this other world and want to go out for pizza. And she works at an office. It's not like that. It's in this world. Cause I think this world is fascinating. And so, um, if you have not gotten enough Rick and Michonne, uh,

[01:18:12] or Carl, like, uh, my second fan fiction is a lot about Carl and the, leader he becomes, um, and we get to see him grow up. And so I, that is very, they're very close to my heart, these little stories. Um, and so they, they definitely center around, uh, Rick, Michonne and Carl. And then a third one I wrote was about Daryl and Connie, which I also really, really, I, I just, they're just, they're almost like children to me, these little stories.

[01:18:42] And so if you want to make my day, you know, give them a read and I'll, yeah, I'll send you a link, but thank you for letting me go on about Rick and Michonne and just what a, a beautiful and captivating, uh, romance they have. And, um, and just, and like I said earlier, really groundbreaking to, to, to put these two characters together. Um, and I just, and if you notice there are so many biracial, uh, pairings in, uh, the walking dead,

[01:19:11] which I really appreciate. They're just trying to make everybody a, a POC and it's beautiful. Yeah. I love it. It's great too, that this, the ones who live came out. I just, I'm so grateful that, that they made that happen and that I feel like that's sort of, if you need an ending for the walking dead, that's it, you know, and it centers all around this couple. So I think it's a real gift. It just really worked. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:19:41] I love it. And I love, I, I just love, um, learning about people and their relationships with like fandom and fan fiction. And when you were talking earlier about having a ship come true, like y'all, if you're not in a fandom, you will never know the pain and agony of wanting a couple to happen that never happens. And I'm just so glad that this one paid off. Yeah. No, I was shipping them. I remember, I think,

[01:20:12] uh, the earliest I remember, but it could have even been before that is when they were making their way to terminus together, walking down the train tracks and they like stayed in a little house for a little while. And I'm like, Oh yeah, they're a great couple. Um, also speaking of the ones who live, I forgot to mention, but she asks for, uh, what kind of like baking soda and peppermint or spearmint. And he gets a whole palette of it, but it goes down into the lake. Um,

[01:20:42] which I think is kind of appropriate by the way that the food didn't make it because you got to have some loss, even in a story with low stakes like this, you know? Yeah. And really the, the real food truck was the friends they made along the way. So it was fine. But, um, anyway, he, you know, gave her what lifesaver mints or something like that instead. And she didn't even pop one in her mouth. Like, come on, read the room.

[01:21:12] No, I'm just kidding. But, um, then in the ones who live, he, I think he gives her the spearmint baking soda toothpaste. So it's a great callback to this. Yeah. No, I, so I watched, I, um, when I first saw this scene, it did feel off to me and I wasn't sure exactly why, because I had been shipping it for a while and it felt like the staging was weird. And, um,

[01:21:42] like there was some kind of, uh, especially it was mostly in Andrew Lincoln, like this way he was the, the hunger felt like it was a little like intense or something in a way that I didn't feel like matched the moment. I can't remember exactly why, but watching it this time, I was wondering if I was going to feel like that again this time. And I didn't, I felt like just moved by it. And I thought it was beautiful. And I felt bad for ever having said that,

[01:22:11] honestly, because I'm like, wait a minute, I guess it's context dependent. Cause you know, now I'm very much in tune with Rick, how he's been sort of his clenched up and closed in his heart closed, but now it's open and it's allowed him to open his heart to Michonne too. I think in this episode, it's just, everything came together in just the right way, so to speak. Um, so, um, you know, I just loved it. And I liked that he found himself holding her hand over the lifesavers and he just smiles. He's like, yeah, this is right.

[01:22:41] And she's kind of taken aback for a second, but then she's smiling too. And then I love how they're both at different times during the whole interaction, kind of smiling, like little teenagers, like, Oh my God, I can't believe we're actually doing this, you know? Yeah, no, it was, it was lovely. Yeah. And I was very, I was moved by this too, just, um, felt a lot watching this and it lasted, less long than I thought it did. I was like, Oh, it's already over. So no, I loved it. That's what Jesus said at the end.

[01:23:11] Can I ask you a question? I have a question. Um, so in the woods, Michonne says to Spencer, your mom told me to go after what I wanted. And, uh, Spencer says, well, are you? And she said, I'm working my way up to it. Did she, do you think she meant Rick? She knows family. Is that what she meant in that moment? Yeah. I think she knows. I think that, yeah, I don't. Yeah. I'm not sure if she's like, well, I kind of like Rick, but I don't,

[01:23:40] I don't feel like confident enough yet. Or if it's more like there's something and I, and I don't know exactly what it is, but I feel close to it. And that's for some reason that feels more like what it is about to me. And then when Rick holds her hand, she's like, Oh, that's what it was. You know? But I don't know. What do you think? I don't know. I didn't catch that. I don't think I remember catching that before. And I thought maybe it's just more. She's ready.

[01:24:10] She's working her way towards more. And maybe in the hierarchy of minds. Yes. Yeah, exactly. And maybe that means Rick, but I think it definitely means family. I think it definitely means. And love. Yeah. Opening her up, opening herself up to be vulnerable and loving others. And, and maybe it may, maybe she didn't know until that moment. Cause she was pretty surprised when Rick. Yeah.

[01:24:40] Touched her hand. Kind of surprised for a minute and then realize that, Oh yeah, this is right. So it didn't seem like to me that it had been consciously on her mind, but those things are complicated. Who knows? Yeah, they are. Spring just hits different. One day, cold mud. The next, warm sunshine. But the hardworking men and women in Carhartt don't wait for the forecast to get to work. Hatching roads, clearing trails,

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[01:26:07] and you could win the $1 million grand prize, plus an exciting range of daily and weekly prizes. Don't miss your shot. Official rules apply. Learn more at goallinandwin.com. All right. Any other points, Lucy? I, yeah. I mean, we've not spoken a lot about the, uh, the Jesus of all. Um, just iconic to see him turn up again, straight out of the comic books,

[01:26:37] the leather jacket, the hair, um, the hat. I wish I didn't know it was a fake beard because I think it does take me out of it a little bit. But I do remember reading an interview with Tom Payne where he's like, I did not have time to grow a beard. They had to paint it onto my face. I think when I talked to him, he said that. So I think the next time we see him, it will be a real beard. Yeah. Yeah. He, he looked glorious at the conventions, but it was a little, I thought watching it this time, I don't remember if I felt like it that time,

[01:27:04] but it was a little silly that he had a banana on for some reason. And it clearly, it was just so he could make this reveal where right before he says it, he pulls it down and then he looks like Jesus. And then he puts his arms out like he's on a cross. And it's like, come on. I think that's from the comics. Yeah, probably is. I think that shot of him with his arms out. Like it felt forced, you know, like, does he do that to everybody he meets? I'm going to wear the bandana and then I'm going to do the thing where I pull it down and put my arms out. Maybe he was just an early adopter of like antivirus, you know, masking.

[01:27:35] Jesus masks. I'm just saying. It's too late by then. Virus spread all around the earth. Yeah, sure. A lot of kind of macho hijinks in this, none of which is super, like it's all slightly comedic. Yeah. Like Jesus, I burst out laughing when Jesus kind of pops off the roof of the car. I love when he just randomly starts doing karate. That moment where he says, you're going to shoot me over a truck or your guns, no, are your guns even loaded? They both shoot the Zed. And then he says, okay, you're going to shoot me over a truck.

[01:28:05] And they look like they might. Yeah. I love Daryl screaming out so long, you prick. Rick and Daryl munching like what looks like an off-brand Kit Kat while listening to country music, feeling optimistic. And then that moment of the kind of mad run around the ends with the van going in the lake is just incredible. And that moment though,

[01:28:26] where I think one of the things Tom Paine's performance really does is give us this sense that Jesus has inherently good vibes. Like, because when he says to Daryl, duck, Daryl does it instinctively. He doesn't think twice and he does save him. So it is this weird thing of like, it's the stakes aren't life or death. Like there's something about it that feels playful. And I think they just, they render that really, really well. Yeah. And then of course,

[01:28:53] Jesus gets knocked out by the door of the truck, which really amused me. I suspect he is awake when they're going to Alexandria and listening to what people are talking about. But I did love that. I asked that question. Was he just faking being asleep? I think he was. And I love that Rick keeps making him fall onto Daryl's shoulder. That just really made me laugh. That felt like brother, brother shit. That felt like the kind of thing you do.

[01:29:21] And then when they wake Denise up, Daryl apologizes for not having the pop. And he says, it's this asshole's fault. Sorry. It's quite nice because Tara and Jesus end up having quite a longstanding friendship up at Hilltop. So what a way to get introduced. The other thing that I think Peter would be very annoyed if I did not mention is that we were both cracking up at like the dumbass way these guys drink soda from the can. I know it's because I know it's because the can is bust. But I am also like, sure,

[01:29:51] every man with arms that clearly goes to the gym for arm day definitely lifts the can above their head while flexing their bicep and sort of dribbles into their mouth like they're in a Diet Coke advert. So yeah, my only on The Walking Dead is only on The Walking Dead would you drink orange soda like you're in a Diet Coke advert from the 1990s. I'm not complaining. I just thought it was funny. I was like, they've got time to stop for a kind of swingy arm break, but not time to, you know, do anything else. But yeah, Jesus introduction. Love it.

[01:30:21] This is the next world. I hope it's good to you guys. I think it's great. It really, despite the fact that it ushers in a world of pain and in many ways, a lot of the stuff that happens with Negan directly comes down to Jesus asking these people to help out Hilltop. Pulling Rick into it. Yeah. I will still forgive it because this episode is great. Yeah. He's asking for help. Also that gas station where they bump into him. I'm sure we see that gas station again in The Whisperer War. I think that's where Daryl and Alpha have a big fight at a certain point,

[01:30:49] but it might just be they use the same location for filming. Yeah. I'm curious, Claire, as a minister, is it weird to, why do they have this character who looks like Jesus calling himself Jesus? Is that offensive at all? Oh, you know what? I think like 10 years ago, maybe I was like, Hey, then you got used to it. You know? Yeah. And I, I, my kids are like, and he's, he's gay mom. I'm like, whatever, you know, like I know now I don't bat an eye. I've,

[01:31:19] I working with teens, you just have to be a little more open to their world than make, force them to fit into the mold. You think they should fit in and just meet them where they're at and love them where they're at. So, um, that's kind of made, just made me a more open person in general. Um, so yeah, maybe 10 years ago, I, I think I probably got my nose turned up a little bit, but no, I didn't think anything of it. Lucy,

[01:31:49] you're saying poor Aaron, right? Because his boyfriends keep dying. His whole boyfriends keep dying. Like it's just a bummer. Poor guy. I love that. They never really in the comics, it's established that Aaron and Jesus are a couple who, who really just, you know, they live happily ever after as far as we know, but, um, it's never really confirmed in the show, but I think Ross Marquand and Tom Payne both said in interviews, like, oh yeah, those guys were fucking like, I'm like, okay. I'm like, whoa, okay.

[01:32:19] That's like, whoa. You decided that off screen. Cool. yeah. Who did you just say in the comics was together? Aaron and Jesus. Okay. I, I only read the comics through like the whisperer war. Oh, you should finish. I know. Jesus is one thing about Jesus in the comics. We kind of, uh, started to talk about a little bit before, but he's very much a bad-ass and you know, he has a big part and he's, um, just, uh,

[01:32:49] agile. And lethal and skilled and a good guy too. And Tom Payne was so excited to play this role and get to do all that and learned, he learned martial arts for it and everything. And so that's why he was bummed that he didn't get to do more, but he was also Tom Payne. I remember was kind of cocky about Jesus. Like, oh yeah, he could take on Rick and Daryl. No problem. He's toying with them. He could beat up anybody in all of the walking dead. You know, he would say things like that, which is, I was kind of like, cool, man. I love that.

[01:33:18] You love your character. So much. You're so into it. He's scrappy. He's scrappy. Um, a couple of things I had notes about, I, you, we've covered most of it, but when they attack him or when they fight and they tie him up and, um, I just loved when Daryl shook up the can before throwing it to Jesus and goes, in case you get thirsty, he had to shake it up. He had to shake it up. It's so good. That's amazing. It's so good. Yeah. And then, uh, you know, I'll say,

[01:33:47] he doesn't really, it's kind of like Glenn opening with, um, Hey, dumb ass. What'd he say? What are you doing in the tank or whatever he said? Yeah. I can't remember the exact line, but it was, Hey, dumb ass. And, um, Jesus doesn't really act like this anymore. He just seems like a standup guy after this, but here he's stealing their food truck. You know, of course he's probably got people, but they were, they had it first. You shouldn't steal. Maybe they could have made a deal.

[01:34:15] And also coming into the bedroom, it's pretty creepy at the end of the night, you know, like, Hey, we should talk. I'm like, maybe we should wait until the morning, bro. Like, what are you? It's such a power move. I love it. He's just like, Oh, Hey girl. It's so iconic. I mean, even though it is a little creepy, I just like, it's, it's such a fun moment to see. He's really fun, but it comes off pretty sketchy compared to how he turns out. I would say. He's lucky. He did. I thought like,

[01:34:45] he's lucky. They don't just kill him because catch Rick on the wrong day. Yeah. Oh, he, Jesus says, you know, he's not about us. And yeah, it's true. Like, you don't know anything about them. I mean, I, I just think he's, he's kind of a, a gambler with some. I always forget he doesn't have that because Aaron's been following them for a while

[01:35:13] by the time he kind of intervenes with them so it is yeah that was something that I thought about a lot watching this it's like oh hang on he doesn't actually know much about them at all I mean maybe it's revealed in the next episode that he has been scoping them but I don't know I can't remember I think he just wanted the food and he saw them find it or something I have a note about that like I don't understand why they left their car behind

[01:35:42] when they got the truck like two cars is better than one in a situation like this and I mean it's so funny they were running after the truck the whole time but Department of Suspension of Disbelief I just think like why did they not keep their other car just for any reason you know one breaks down I also thought like why Rick it almost seemed like Rick was backing up to this lake

[01:36:15] I don't know like I was just like what are you doing and then I put my emergency brake on on the slightest hill just with you know for whatever reason I just use my emergency brake so emergency brakes people I guess and then I also thought it was really funny that Eugene goes on and on about sorghum then 10 minutes later we see a building conveniently and largely labeled sorghum and was there something about the pasta maker Mrs. Niedermeyer's I feel like they talked

[01:36:44] about the pasta maker she's dead her fourth time in this episode she is dead but I feel like I did oh I didn't care but the pasta maker lives on yes in memory of Mrs. Niedermeyer they found a pasta maker but it is at the bottom of the lake probably those are all my silly notes Lucy I love it Law of averages that comes up a lot in this it's not a law I'm super familiar with but it's interesting to see it kind of being bounced back and forth

[01:37:13] they changed Jesus' name it's Paul Monroe in the comics but they changed it to Rovia so that people wouldn't think he was related to Deanna's Deanna Monroe yeah I think I'm getting old because after they finished their most macho Fanta drinking competition ever they just threw their cans away and I'm like don't litter it's the apocalypse but don't litter but then I realised no one can recycle an apocalypse so it's probably fine

[01:37:43] there's a lot in this episode about family and found family and it's cute how Michonne is with Spencer the way that she helps him through that transition I thought it was interesting that they didn't take Deanna back to Alexandria to bury her but I noticed also that the walls have expanded so I don't know if they're no longer burying in the usual spot because it's within the walls when Rikki was shown or woken up the gun and the katana are placed by the bed

[01:38:12] which just is perfect for their characters perfect for them I would guess they didn't take her back because they wanted to have the story be Spencer walking around with his shovel you know because there's that visual and then it's like okay he walked around with his shovel found her and then he's like actually can we drag her back to Alexandria also though thinking about it like to try and think of a coherent one as well maybe he didn't want to involve because she was a figure to everyone but she was his mom

[01:38:42] so if he took her back to Alexandria it would become a big thing whereas he wanted it to be a goodbye yeah okay I'll love it if my family's listening I'd rather be buried out in the middle of the woods than in a cemetery so oh nice apparently you can do like oh like my mom was talking about this last time we were having one of our cheerful mother daughter conversations there are these things like woodland burials now you can do in Scotland that are like natural decomposing things yeah my great

[01:39:12] aunt she had a green burial where they just basically wrap you up in a sheet wow and put you in the ground with no coffin and I thought it was really beautiful but my sister was very disturbed by it actually a different sister than the one that threw the baby walker downstairs I have five sisters I was like she owes you for that rank yeah nice yeah it's interesting what you're saying as well about the naming of the character is

[01:39:41] Jesus Claire because yeah I think it is yeah it's interesting in the comics I like the fact that they call it out in the show they're like he freaking calls himself Jesus what a dick like I think that's that's quite self-aware um those are the ends of my notes apart from the usual bits uh my notes Lucy is up on the remembrance wall in Alexandria I noticed it was a different time it was a past life so now we've both been killed by the walking dead and also Karen and David yeah

[01:40:10] it's an honor who are they gonna come for next I had some additional notes that don't have to do with this episode but go for it were really fun I just watched two movies with Scott Wilson recently in the heat of the night with Sidney Poitier and Rod Steiger and he had a smaller part in that movie but it was also he did an awesome job and then we watched in cold blood just about a week ago which was written by Truman Capote and one of the first true crime

[01:40:39] movies um made and Scott Wilson is absolutely he's a he's the star he and Robert Blake um young was yes young Scott Wilson I think he's 27 in this movie he is phenomenal in this movie and bizarrely I could see all of the different walking dead villains in his character so I just wanted to recommend um in cold blood to anybody who likes Scott we talked about that when we interviewed him I think it was

[01:41:09] such a good movie oh wow um and then the resident evil trailer came out uh this week I think which you've been really hyping Jason and it looked awesome that's all yeah I can't wait September beautiful yeah oh also uh the this is sort of not exactly related to that but Crystal Lake which is the Friday the 13th series produced by A24 who does more interesting horror not just like mindless stuff and

[01:41:38] it's headed up by Caleb Kane who is one of the showrunners of the excellent um welcome to dairy series and it stars Linda Cardellini so I'm really excited about it I'm going to be podcasting on it with Nathan Eshelman and Jamie Dimmick who are both big core fans and I'm excited to do a podcast with those two that's coming up very exciting uh that's in uh that's in I think it's in October too yeah it's in

[01:42:07] October anyway my only other note is I loved it when Rick said it is pretty stupid of to go out there isn't it and Dara goes yep do it again tomorrow and Rick goes yep yeah and what about deep dive IBM I mean IBM so a lot of IMDB is just it's just shite so I'll just do the interesting ones um the IMDB and the show have something to say about timeline which I'll talk about and apparently Andrew Lincoln Norman

[01:42:37] Reedus took inspiration from Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid when filming this episode um this is the third time the Walking Dead has used the F word in any version of an episode um the note that Rick leaves for Jesus says you were hurt we brought you here you're safe talk soon Rick to get himself prepared Andrew Lincoln was rocking out to Ronnie Dawson's song action-packed during which he Lincoln began to yell out the lyrics um apparently the cups that Judith is seen playing

[01:43:06] with in the first scene are the same cups from season three I'm like you cheap um uh Andrew Lincoln I thought this was quite interesting Andrew Lincoln and Tom Payne actually worked together on a production of Wuthering Heights in 2009 Lincoln played the role of Edgar and Tom Payne played the role of Linton nice and this episode marks the second time Rick and Daryl have had an on-screen appearance together in season six it's only the second time um it's the final appearance of Tova

[01:43:36] Feldscher's Deanna Monroe um and it took exactly nine hours for the makeup for Carl's eye to be finished even though we don't see it in this episode so timeline wise wait a minute you mentioned Tom Payne and Andrew Lincoln were in something and that reminded me they're both English so it makes sense um Lenny James is also English as is David Morrissey and Samantha Morton who played Alpha and Pollyanna McIntosh who played Jadis and kinda Lauren Cohan who

[01:44:05] was born in the US but raised in England and has an English accent so uh and her mum is from the town where Peter's from we found out recently um so timeline is confusing right okay so Maggie it is established that Maggie does not look at all pregnant from now all the way through season seven and eight like we not enough time passes for Maggie to start showing however in this episode everyone refers to a couple of months or like a number

[01:44:34] of weeks the official timeline has it that only 31 days have passed so a month basically and that this is all happening on April the 19th and the next morning is April the 20th I don't know how I feel about all of this to be honest I feel like the development we've seen indicates that it probably was closer to a couple months but given everything that happens over the next six to eight weeks and the fact that again we really don't see Maggie even look at all pregnant it's a bit confusing so essentially

[01:45:04] I throw my hands up in the air and say I don't really know with the timeline yeah I mean you can't be too uh too much of a stickler for it given that Carl is 16 somehow no absolutely but I thought I find it interesting to track where things are I'm just saying like sometimes things don't quite line up of course it wouldn't be difficult to make Maggie look a little more pregnant but you know especially with first babies you could not show for a really long time so they tell me yeah so maybe Lauren

[01:45:33] Cohen just got well Maggie just got super lucky only on the walking dead would sticking a knife through your mother's head be so poignant and touching he said you copied me only on the walking dead would telling a loved one that you would put them down be an endearing sentiment only on the walking dead would you drink Fanta like a dick

[01:46:30] Amazon presents Jeff versus taco truck salsa whether it's Verde Roja or the orange one for Jeff trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a flamethrower luckily Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids ginger tea and milk habanero more like habanere yes save the everyday with Amazon

[01:46:59] choice hotels get you more of what you value here's a little tune to help you remember same drive different day don't you wish you were getting away pack your bags and come on through Texas Ohio Alaska we're up there too comfort in it's calling your name save on the stay oh and free waffles are yours to claim well I hope you like my little song book direct at storieshiltales.com

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[01:47:59] restrictions apply all right let's move on to list your bones grunts and grunts okay Wendy and brown chicken cow cow also I love these two together but never saw it coming watching for the third fourth time now you see the signs everywhere yep yeah um

[01:48:27] Andy Fisher says anyone else heard the word sorghum before this episode I love this episode the comedic fury directed the new character Jesus the expanding world and the off-the-chain hotness and sweetness of the Roshone romance five pizzas and an engagement ring I don't think I'd heard sorghum but I I remember I feel like I remember Karen and I talking about it and she's like knew all about it oh yes it's very versatile oh she would yeah I've never heard of sorghum so Samantha Brunnen says hi Jason and Lucy I'm so far

[01:48:57] behind on the rewatch but I really love this one it's so good it's the one I come back to often I love the dynamic between Rick and Daryl and between Rick and Michonne as well as our introduction to Jesus it's so well done however the truck getting drowned in a pond so annoying I don't know I just think uh if it if they'd gotten the food as well it just wouldn't feel like the walking dead if everything went perfectly I was I was bummed to you I was like no no no no no but then when I thought about it at the end I'm like yeah you need a little loss and heartbreak in there and that and

[01:49:27] then just for them to know you know what really matters is that we have each other even though that's kind of corny so true and it's it's good to see someone make act an actually stupid move because not all your moves are gonna be always perfect yeah smart and on so I guess maybe Rick wouldn't have done the emergency break uh Elena says one of my favorite episodes and I was so happy to revisit it from Jesus saving Daryl from a walker then Daryl punching him to the pathos of Spencer laying his mother to

[01:49:54] rest and finally the chicka bow bow moment of Michonne and Rick holding hands and realizing that what they wanted was right in front of them oh so so good I'm dreading the next couple of seasons to come so am reveling in this era can't wait to hear what you all have to say thanks Elena I've got Matt King who says great to see the adventures of Rick and Daryl in the introduction of Jesus to the story I didn't remember his original name

[01:50:24] was Paul Rovia though Jesus is a bit catchier losing the truck in the water was a bit much but at least we saw that Jesus saves Daryl by shooting a walker then of course the cheesy getting together of Rick and Mish and the glorious final scene where Jesus startles them and they jump up stark naked with their weapons in hand the metal ones glorious episode light hearted after the recent chaos Matt has reminded me that I read a comment on reddit from 2016 that said it was about Jesus crashing the

[01:50:54] van and they were like but everyone keeps telling him to take the wheel and that really made me hands down top pun Andrea Maitland says hi Jason Lucy it's been a while since I've written in I've been finishing up my bachelor's degree in art history and I'm getting ready to walk in my ceremony this week amazing congratulations congratulations Andrea so now that the schoolwork is done I wanted to finally write in first of all happy 700th episode you guys are rock stars and I

[01:51:23] love this community thank you anyway I've been listening in though not really watching our group survival to Alexandria was never my favorite but listening to you guys definitely made me appreciate it so much more no way out is one of my favorite episodes that was from last week Daryl being the spectacular badass that he is blowing up the motorcycles then lighting the fire Abraham and Sasha's entrance the town coming together to fight the cinematography at the end with all of them fighting was spectacular Rick's moment with Carl Eugene and Gabriel

[01:51:52] finally finally finding the courage it's just an epic episode anyway I wanted to get this in before you record today so I'll stop well I guess she didn't because that was from last week sorry happy to be back bye well nice day from you Andrea congratulations oh yeah congratulations awesome all right here's Renee which I'm really excited to hear what Renee has to say about this episode I've not listened so here we go hi Jason and Lucy and clear and I forgot

[01:52:22] to say hi to Veronica last week so hi yeah Veronica all righty let me jump into this episode because y'all already know I have many got a lot to say Judith is absolutely adorable I can definitely understand how Michonne fell in love with the whole family because Carl is just as adorable just as adorable and you already know how I how I feel about Rick because that man is fine as all outdoors

[01:52:51] especially when he's holding his baby and looking at his son with so much love in his eyes that man was out here looking like a whole snack no matter of fact a whole meal I never noticed before that Rick picked up his watch but not his ring signifying he was finally ready to move on from his patch past which is something he never did with you know who that right

[01:53:19] there told me that he was not checking for her like that point blank period it's like rickie-dickie michonne was real comfortable because child why was she sashing around in that road with her locks tied up in that towel and her melanin was poppin she was glowing

[01:53:46] moisturized peaceful and very much at home I understand exactly why Rick took that ring off Paul he knew rickie michonne were checking for each other he knew that that baby already knew that he just didn't know they were going to be ugly bumping that night definitely keep the vibes he peep them vibes the whole time I freaking love Denise and Dara is so crazy mimicking her with the

[01:54:13] hand gestures and saying what the hell is pop we do not say that down here in the south soda it is and always look good to know I love you not definitely one of my favorites and like I said before Eugene should be protected at all costs he that man knows some stuff and things and Daryl now he doesn't want to find

[01:54:39] people a couple episodes ago it was Rick and now Rick wants to look for people those folks switch positions more than musical chairs they have me so confused Michonne told Spencer that Deanna told her to figure out what she wanted to do with her life and she said she was working up to it and then Rick took those mints out and gave them to Michonne I would say they both were working up to it Carl and Judas was so cute sitting on the porch

[01:55:08] in a rocking chair I love sitting on my porch and patio rocking in my rocking chairs too so that whole scene just felt warm and peaceful to me and Judas she definitely sound like she said Michonne's name when Michonne walked up and the conversation between Michonne and Carl was chef kiss Carl was like it should be someone who loves you and someone whose family I would do it for you and I thought that was just indicative of how close he feels to

[01:55:37] Michonne and I feel like Michonne is not just Rick's person but he is also she is also Carl's person listen when Rick laid back on that couch I got all tingly inside because that man can get it every single day and twice on Sunday and Michonne's outfit sure look nice and pristine for somebody who was supposedly out there in the woods sis was looking mighty fine and

[01:56:05] the mints they were the catalyst for Michonne to become canon and I never noticed that she wrapped her fingers around that when he touched her hand that she wrapped her fingers around his hand and baby that's all Ricky Dicky needed it's like he was waiting on that touch and she had been waiting on that moment and in the ones who live when she said Rick found his moment it looked like she

[01:56:33] found hers too I have been anxiously waiting for this episode so that I can live vicariously through her because baby mm-hmm Ricky Dicky that's all I can say and they sure to me they surely look like

[01:56:59] they were kissing for real and Rick said wait a minute so he can take off his gun belt it's like sir sir that was so sexy to me Michonne started giggling and honestly I don't blame him one bit because I started giggling too but my favorite part was after Rick finished clapping those cheeks he had his hand

[01:57:23] resting right on Michonne's booty exactly where he has been dying to touch ever since he said must have been something else I know it and all I can say is I salute I salute Andrew Lincoln's wife because baby ain't no way it ain't no way

[01:57:45] Michonne becoming canon will forever feel like a cultural reset for me because the build-up and attention the friendship the trust the family connection connection all of it was done to perfection all of it and it's like Rick is gone bye bye and so is Michonne and so am I let me go on and watch the ones who live episode 4 my favorite

[01:58:14] ever let me go on and you know fast forward to my favorite parts you know when they Rick walking that apartment in his own and popping yeah let me go on and watch that all righty peace and love bye that was great awesome Renee I love that he says that remark he makes about

[01:58:39] all on account of your dental hygiene he looks at her with a lot of love which is nice amazing okay oh it's it's is it me yeah oh yes okay it's uh hello is it uh no it's not it's a sorry Billy Thompson hello hello hope you guys are well I just love everybody's interactions with each other in the opening to this episode and I think it shows

[01:59:07] the group is closer now and starting to glue as one like Deanna wanted uh Jesus let's go so charismatic and clever in that first scene with him I remember thinking that's a guy you want to be friends with in the apocalypse uh followed by a really enjoyable action sequence a really iconic introduction to such a great character I can't wait to see more Jesus agreed uh we all loved Rick and Daryl as the

[01:59:33] duo but I think it's this episode that really uh emphasizes why not just how they joke around um and feed each other chocolate but they uh laugh emoji because but because they understand help and call out each other's bullshit I really do hope we see some sort of reunion for these two yes me too I I I think we will that being said uh with the rights to the walking dead being up for sale

[02:00:01] who would you like to buy them rumors of Netflix HBO and Amazon being interested who would you guys prefer I think it's Amazon for me in the hopes of an animated series closer to the comics after seeing the success of Invincible I don't know anything about that um as far as I know I don't know anything about that I mean AMC has the rights to the walking dead as long as they keep producing the material

[02:00:26] they have the rights and Kirkman has said he would love to do an animated series more closer to the comic kind of like Invincible but he won't do it unless he could get the rights back from AMC which he doesn't see happening that's what I've heard so this is news to me if there's anything going on oh no there's a there's a right steal oh oh okay yeah I just googled it um apparently uh a massive

[02:00:52] walking dead right steal could be happening soon AMC is trying to secure the next licensing deal for the tv series the company's in talks with several interested buyers and wants to keep part of the rights for itself while also sharing them with partners oh I see so that's more about like international maybe like international distribution or something I don't know anyway if any all I would

[02:01:18] say is if anything can lead to Robert Kirkman being able to do his version of an animated series the way he has with Invincible which anyone who has the rights the smartest thing they could do would be to say here you go Robert do what you want to do and keep their hands off of it because Invincible is one of the most popular shows ever as far as I know so um and it would be so cool then we could just cover

[02:01:42] it on this podcast and be doing it for the next 20 years yeah I'd love to see I've always thought I would love to see yeah I'm like yeah 20 years let's do it let's do elderly grimes man elderly grimes that'll be a laugh no he'll be animated he'll be animated so he's whatever age so yeah yeah I would love to see HBO uh since they passed up on walking dead years ago that's right

[02:02:10] they'll be kicking themselves yeah they are dumb but HBO just does everything so well that's true hopefully they keep doing that with this whole sale and everything yeah yeah okay finally we get to see Rishon and I don't think anyone couldn't say that they saw it coming this time it has been building for a while now just don't think about Jesse and such a lovely moment with Carl and Michonne on the porch

[02:02:36] although I do really struggle with Chandler's acting from time to time the porch scene was okay but the scene in the woods with Ena just felt terrible I can't disagree I can't quite put my finger on what it is with his acting that uh sometimes just brings me right out of it but hey we still love him anyway thanks guys bye Chandler does such he really nails it sometimes he really does and other times so I maybe it has to

[02:03:05] do with the director you know I've got Rinaldi clicks he says hello Claire hello Lucy and hello Jason I'm so happy that one of my favorite characters from the walking dead comics makes his debut on the tv show Jesus Rovia but don't worry no one will say the Rovia part and a bunch of puns will flow outwards from other zed heads I rank this episode the next world 93 out of 177 which is roughly middle of the pack

[02:03:31] the walking dead is my second favorite tv show of all time as of May 2026 and one reason for that is even the middle of the pack episodes are enjoyable to watch with good writing and good acting and this one was following that pattern I love Rick and Daryl's dynamic in this episode because they reminded me of my dynamic with my younger brother he would have been jamming out to music I didn't like the way Rick was and I'd be as annoyed as Daryl was Jesus adds a sort of hope or optimism that everything will change

[02:04:00] for the better he's charismatic but capable of defending himself and is observant and caring his encounter with Rick and Daryl was fun and his martial arts prowess from the comics was preserved in his scene with them which was awesome the next world did its job as a palate cleanser episode after an oh my goodness this is crazy episode buckle up and strap in those who aren't big fans of Negan because the number of episodes of this light-hearted nature will shrink when his screen time becomes more massive

[02:04:26] so really soak this episode up and bask in it lol I think the one critique about this episode I somewhat agree with was the abrupt change in tone throughout this episode with no transition from the dark tone of the last one and the abrupt change in Rick and Michonne's relationship after Rick and Jesse moving towards being a couple I mean I'm not against Michonne I'm looking forward to hearing Renee's thoughts on the matter I enjoy hearing her call in to discuss not just Michonne but the walking dead in general it's just the fact we're shown was going to try and fight Jesus

[02:04:55] butt naked with very abrupt I agree that sentence out of context is going to cause a ton of world reactions you know it will anyway and the words of Eugene the next world was hunky donkey wonder if hunky donkey will catch on as a catchphrase in the walking dead cast community I hope so Rinaldi there's a hunky donkey phrase there's a time jump here so that I wonder if that factors in Rinaldi with perceived abruptness of

[02:05:22] things all right we have one more call it's from Megan hi Jason and Lucy this is Megan Lehman I had to call in for this episode because it's one of my favorites I have so many good memories of this episode and I distinctly recall what it felt like to watch it live for the first time it was so exciting to see Rick and Michonne get together I did not expect it and I knew people had started to say they might be heading towards them as a couple but

[02:05:50] I was one of those people who said no I don't think so and it wasn't that I didn't like them or like the idea of them as a couple or like them individually but it was sort of like they're like a Carol and Daryl thing where it was like well their bond and their strong friendship and ability to work together it's like something really pure and and not every male female relationship has to be romantic and I've had some extremely strong friendships with men that I had no romantic involvement with

[02:06:17] and I kind of put it in that category in my head um so I was a little shocked what happened but I was immediately on board I remember thinking like oh my god oh my god oh my god this is happening it's not a drill it's not a drill and I think this doesn't happen until the next episode but when Carl finds out and sort of catches them and they have these shy sly smiles it was so cute part of this episode that I really loved was the introduction of Jesus and the whole caper with the truck full of food

[02:06:44] I know like the night that that aired I think people online were saying okay now send it to the Benny Hill theme and by the next morning there were videos out there where it was sent to the Benny Hill theme now I looked online and I was surprised to find that there was only a one week between when the last episode aired where Jesse died and this episode where Rick got with Michonne we know that there was a

[02:07:09] time jump of about two months um but I don't remember as a fan watching it and thinking wow I cannot believe they killed off his love interest in one episode and then gave him a new love interest the next episode but it worked well I don't know if it's the algorithm or the internet gods but I just so happened to get an ad this morning for a boosted post or whatever it is for a Facebook group that is devoted to

[02:07:35] Richon fans Rick and Michonne fans and I thought immediately of our friend Renee and I am gonna post this in the podcasting group because there was a post about how she's the she started that group not have been shocked that Rick and Michonne got together because it had a little video clip from way back in an earlier season where Michonne starts walking out of the room and it shows Rick

[02:08:01] looking at her butt as she goes and I don't remember seeing that I feel like we might have clicked it out of context a little bit but it was really funny watching that on repeat with Rick's head on a swivel and Michonne sashaying out of the room and then the comments pointed out um that when Jesus found them in bed together his hand was on her butt and so the comments were hilarious on that like apparently thinking about that the whole time yeah he had an interest there and he was able to fulfill it so

[02:08:29] hey they stood the test of time and that moment when they got together I'm being serious now probably a little too personal but when they had that sort of like oh my gosh oh my gosh are we gonna kiss and they kissed and then it was just like an instant recognition of you know pent up desire interest you know souls recognizing souls I feel like I've lived that with my husband with our

[02:08:55] first kiss and it was like as soon as you get over that we're friends there's something hidden and now it's not it's it's amazing it's an amazing feeling I'm sure everybody has had that but yeah I just I think they captured it really well on camera there so ironically the last episode when Jesse died did air on Valentine's Day that year and we know the walking dead likes to be really sadistic with the choices of things that airs on major holidays as evidenced by a few things I recall

[02:09:23] from Mother's Day in the past but uh at any rate Rick and Michonne got their Valentine's Day and we fans needed this light-hearted caper with uh Jesus in the truck and and the sweet moment with Rick and Michonne to get ready for what's to come later on this season uh one last thing is last week you read my comment and I somehow mentioned that Daryl with the rocket launcher was one of the two best moments in the walking dead I think when I left that comment I get distracted by my kids

[02:09:51] or something and cut off and never really finish my thought I think what I was trying to say was was best moment when characters got to blow things up and the other one was uh Carol and the terminus uh explosion so that clears that up I'm over time so have a great rewatch week bye thanks Megan that was

[02:10:10] great good to hear from you awesome all right that is our show episode 702 thanks so much for listening everyone Claire thank you for coming by don't forget to send me that link for your uh fan fiction and I'll put it in the show notes okay I will thank you for having me it was a huge honor to be here and

[02:10:34] I loved it yeah I felt like I was listening to the podcast like I always do but I know that happens to me sometimes yeah it was good right pretty fun you're you know I didn't really write a lot about Rick and Michonne getting together um I guess thinking you know we have three of us somebody will fill it in and you really did like I love the way you went back through history and traced their

[02:10:59] relationship I was like yes good stuff next episode walking down scene six episode 11 knots untie and I think Rachel's gonna be guesting with us so that'd be fun yeah amazing if you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com and while you're there please check out our other podcast uh Lizzie's podcasting about from the MGM plus show that's a

[02:11:26] really good I haven't actually I'm behind this season I haven't started watching it yet I've been wanting to watch that it's it's like it has people who used to work on lost working on it including the star you know Harold Perrineau but behind the scenes too has losty vibes but more of a horrific version of it and uh a lot of mystery and it's really intriguing and and Lizzie does a fantastic job covering that she's also doing she's doing it live on youtube and we're publishing it as a podcast but you can also just go on youtube and watch her do that so that's one that's been out recently

[02:11:57] is Lizzie doing it solo Jason she uh Alex decided he didn't want to do it anymore so Lizzie got her friend Lisa in there and they're doing a good job together yeah cool all right that is our show thanks for listening don't get bit mofavo we all need advice but it's not always clear who to ask even in 2026 enter how to the long-standing advice show an ambi award nominated best personal growth podcast that's back with new episodes and

[02:12:25] a new host who me mike peska each week I tackle a listener question ranging from travel to finance to relationships and beyond with help from a world-class expert you know someone who actually very much knows what they're talking about think of it as eavesdropping on someone else's therapy session without the co-pay or awkward silences you've got questions we'll find the experts and the answers so follow how to with mike peska wherever you get podcasts have you ever asked

[02:12:54] yourself can the president really do that or wondered if there was too much money in political campaigns then check out the new season of you might be right hosted by us former tennessee governors phil bredesen and bill haslam we're back for a brand new season now and you might be right cements the idea that constructive disagreement can lead to real problem solving this season we're going to dig into the role of the national guard ai regulation and a lot more new episodes drop every other week follow you might be right wherever you get your podcasts you