712: TWD: Dead City S3E3 "Emigrants"

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[00:02:47] Hey Zedheads, welcome to the podcast. I'm Ben. And I'm Alex. And this is different than what I said last week it was going to be, but the cast of us, episode 712. And this episode, we're covering The Walking Dead Dead City, season three, episode three, Emigrants. I know I corrected us last week and said that Jason said that Silo was going to be the next

[00:03:16] episode, so the next time you heard us was going to be 713. But then after we were done recording, Jason messaged me and he was like, hey, I decided to just put Silo on wax episodic, so you're still going to be 112. And I was like, well, that's going to make things a little awkward because we already told people we were going to be, that you were going to be 712. It's like, ah, people will figure it out. Okay. So number one, had you not pointed out, I wonder if anyone else would have, I'd like to think our listeners would have, they would have called us out. But number two,

[00:03:45] it's so funny you said that because as I was looking at the agenda earlier, I was like, huh, pretty sure it's supposed to be 713, but I'm not the, I'm not, I'm not the scribe here that's keeping notes. I'm not the historian of this group. So I'm just going to go with what's written on the page and, you know, F you San Diego. So yeah. Nice anchorman reference there. Oh, thank you. Damn it. Who forgot to change the prompt? Who's been messing with the prompter? I love it. I love it. So how have you been this past week, Ben?

[00:04:13] I have been good. I have been busy. We've been doing a lot of planning, uh, with altered reality because we're gearing up. We got Colorado Springs comic-con in less than two weeks. So I've been very, very busy. Uh, but in addition to that, I am caught up with Monarch legacy of monsters, finally. And now like gearing up to jump into a new series. And I think I'm going with shrinking

[00:04:39] because I know that's one that's high on my list. It is a really good season. Wait, have you watched any of it yet? No. Oh my God, Ben. No. Wow. Okay. And which, which considering how much I love scrubs and I adore Ted Lasso, which is back by the way, it sure is. Um, I'm surprised cause it's another Bill Lawrence show with Brett Goldstein involved.

[00:05:04] Yep. So I'm looking forward to diving in and having my tear ducts get some work. All right. So while I love everything you just said, I'm going to, I'm going to stand up on a soapbox and stump for a show that I think you should watch before you do that. Okay. Hear me out. Hear me out. Widow's Bay. Widow's Bay. It is Widow's Bay. It is 10 episodes, 42 minutes each. Like you got Betty Gilpin, you got him a Schlenk letter. You got some real, you got Steven Root and it is the

[00:05:32] funniest, scary type show I have ever seen in my entire life. The, the mystery, the, it is, it is closer to lost than severance and severance was closest to loss that I've ever seen. This is by far and wide, the closest to lost I've ever seen. And it's just a 10 episode commitment. And you're going to be like, thank you, man. Thank you so much for telling me to watch this first. You are not the first person that has told me to make sure Widow's Bay is high on my list.

[00:06:00] Uh, I want to do it and I might do it just because of you. You did make a valid point that shrinking is three seasons in, uh, or maybe four at this point. I don't know. I think it's four. It might be four. Um, and Widow's Bay is still only one season in. So Widow's Bay would probably be a little easier. And I know you're a big champion for that show too. I sure am. And I've got good taste and I know what you like, Ben. So I, I am going full throated

[00:06:28] support of Widow's Bay. And I think I, I, I stand by it, but you do, you live your life. You do you, but no, I think you're right with Widow's Bay. I, I, you know, we'll, uh, we'll probably go with that. Cause I can knock that out pretty quick. It's just 10 episodes. Absolutely. And I mean, but in the return, since you asked me, I got to ask you, what about you? How's your week been so far? Uh, you know what? My week's been fine. Um, normal, you know, everyday life. I will say

[00:06:57] I was super impressed with myself tonight. Uh, I got the kids, you know, they, my mom dropped off to me at work. I stayed a little late, got them home, got, uh, both of them showered, everything, made them dinner, got them all settled, watched the episode a second time and did the laundry and did all of that before our nine o'clock recording time, which like real, real big props in my life of being able to get all of that done in one evening. Isn't it weird how the older we get

[00:07:25] our proud moments in our life, like our self pride moments in our lives go from things like hit getting an achievement in an Xbox game or something like that to, uh, domesticated bliss of getting laundry done and washing dishes and it's clean. Okay. So it's fascinating. You say it that way because here is how Kara got me into animal crossing. All right. Because during the

[00:07:50] house during the pandemic, okay. She starts playing animal crossing and she gets me into it after like three months of intense grinding. Cause we were all locked in. She realized like, wait a minute, why don't we do this? Like with our actual house? I'm like, what do you mean? She's like, well, I mean, we're talking about ripping up the carpets and painting everything. Like, why don't we just go room by room? And I realized, oh my God, life is just a video game, man. It's all just grinding to get to the next level. It's all experience points. Every time I

[00:08:17] learn something at work, I'm another higher level. Like if you think of life as a video game, it doesn't suck as bad. Don't you realize like we are literally just living out the Sims. Like that's basically what it is. It really is. Every time I go to Hershey park, which again, we're season pass holders, so it's consistent. I always come home and want to play a rollercoaster tycoon just immediately, just every time. That is a fun game. Oh, it's the best. It is really,

[00:08:42] it's one of the originals. I know we're not going to get an answer to this because they can't answer us directly, but they can answer us in their feedback. And I'm curious the answers for the audience. How many of you actually went and started Jericho? Like we mentioned last week. Ooh, great question, Ben, because this episode did bring the Jericho vibes even harder. I was so excited to watch this episode of The Pit. I mean, Walking Dead this week.

[00:09:11] Um, yes, yes. Yeah. It's, it's basically, it was The Pit. It was The Walking Dead meets The Pit. And I'm not complaining one single bit. No, I'm, I'm just throwing this out there. We're going to dive into feedback in just a second before we really start to break down the episode. So pardon me for my language on this. And cause I never really get an opportunity to say this when it comes to The Walking Dead, but we are only three episodes in and this season has been fucking awesome.

[00:09:41] It has been hard in my language. It has been the best storytelling I have seen coming out of The Walking Dead, honestly, since like, uh, the, the prison on, this was a very prison like episode. I thought everything about it. Um, we're going to get into it, but I am so confident and excited in the hands that we are in and the story being told and how it's being told. Like, this is what I've always wanted. This is exactly

[00:10:10] what I've always wanted. And this is exactly how I wanted it to go. Even the very end, like, yes, yes, that is correct. This is what I'm looking for. Yes. So we are, I want, I want to shout it from the rooftops. If people still read blogs, I would blog about how great this show is and how the fact that it's back. I think anyone that is listening that loves The Walking Dead, but doesn't watch it

[00:10:36] because of whatever your feelings are on the Maggie Negan front. I totally get that. I totally respect that. You know where we're coming from, but there is a story being told in this season of The Walking Dead, Dead City that is fresh, that is powerful, and that is really well constructed. Some of the best dialogue and some of the best acting we've got in a long, long time. Some of

[00:11:00] the best suspense and some of the best genuine, like, moral, ethical quandaries and dilemmas. Like, this show is so freaking back. And I liked one in two, but I always felt like it was a little lacking. This is what it was lacking. Whatever this is, this is what was lacking. I love it so much. Yeah, 100%. And I am, like, again, it's one of those things that, like, I don't want to say,

[00:11:28] when I said, like, I haven't been able to say this about The Walking Dead, I mean in a while. Like, I'm talking, like, akin to earlier seasons of The Walking Dead, where... Absolutely. Like, I'm just... And you even hit the nail on the head. Like, like, you went on, you went on the, in the group, and you even said in a separate post from the feedback post, like, anybody who is not watching this show, like, you should be watching this show right now.

[00:11:52] Like, I don't know how to get the word to more people. That if you've ever watched The Walking Dead and you've ever loved The Walking Dead, you should be watching this show this season because this is what you love. I can guarantee this is the type of stuff you love about The Walking Dead. The story being told. And I've seen some of the feedback already because I live online. And, you know, there are some folks that couldn't get through the first or second episode. Like, damn, we really took two episodes to wrap up.

[00:12:20] And I think in honor and out of respect to those first two seasons of storytelling, I'm glad that the Croack got one episode, the Dama got one episode, and now we're into season three, episode three, off to the races. This is really good storytelling. And let me just give you a good example as to what we mean. So I just went on Rotten Tomatoes to look up the scores of the show.

[00:12:45] Season one scored an 80% on Rotten Tomatoes, which is higher than I thought it would be. Did it? In all honesty. Season two had a 56%, so it was relatively low. Season three, right now, after three episodes, is at 100% Rotten Tomatoes. Get out of here. Okay, so explain what does that mean? Is that critic score? Is that people score? Is that both a score? That is the viewers score.

[00:13:15] That means that there has not been one negative review from the viewers on this season so far. So if you're listening to this and you've hated the season, don't you dare go on Rotten Tomatoes real quick and review bomb it, all right? No, I'm kidding. Live your life. But I think that speaks to the quality of what we've been getting. And again, the writing has been superb. The dialogue has been very good and it has been delivered very well by everyone.

[00:13:44] There has not been... There have been a couple of over-the-top moments in the first scene, episode maybe the second. But this third episode, it was pitch perfect, man. It was Zock amazing. Yeah. So let's kind of put a pause on that for right now before we end up going too deep. We'll try. We have some feedback that we got to get through for episode two, Haven. I'm going to let you kick it off this time too, because this first one I feel like was targeted right at you.

[00:14:14] Not in a bad way, but in a good way. I mean, I was directly tagged in it. And I got to say, Nathan Eshelman, I always love getting your comments. I have often, often felt a kindredness to you. So getting this comment genuinely made my day yesterday. But Nathan says, I want to give a shout out to Alex Kruger for not only mentioning the greatness that is Twilight, hell yeah, but also one of the big church scenes from Final Fantasy VII. Man after my own heart.

[00:14:42] Those are two of my favorite things. Nathan, amen, brother. I will always love Twilight with you. I'm a fan of Nathan's too, so I don't want to criticize. You know what, Ben? I'll keep my thoughts to myself. Don't yuck our yum. Just let us have our taste and call it a day. You're both half right. I mean, I'll give it to you. Thank you. You're batting 50%. At least I'm team Jacob. Wait, no, Edward. Edward, Edward, Edward. I'm a pale guy. I got to go, Edward.

[00:15:12] All right, moving on. Debra Omer says, hi, Ben and Alex. Sorry I missed y'all's guest hosting on the Negan introduction episodes. I fell behind on the Walking Dead rewatch last year because I have only so much time and the Wax episodic episodes have all my attention right now. Fair. That's rightfully so. Super fair. But I came back just for you and because only so many of us like Dead City. Hi. Wow, there's a lot to unpack in this episode. I'm loving all the different relationship dynamics.

[00:15:42] Maggie and Renata work together well, co-leading the community. They built a really good setup. I liked their warning system. They even hooked up Dillard and Negan too while they're loafing around. I'm glad that we got Dillard's backstory to explain why he's adapted the way he has, but also Negan was able to reach him to do something better now. Maggie's definitely trying to be a different person. Her saving the Dama married Rick saving Negan.

[00:16:09] It's funny that conversations they're having with Renata while everything... Sorry. It's funny that conversations they were having with Renata were everything the fans had said back then. It does seem like they're trying to tie up all the loose ends from the past season when we lose the Dama and we might not see Pearlie again, which is unfortunate, but I'm still invested. Also, not sure what Negan's reasoning is for killing her. Is it to help Maggie because she couldn't do it herself? I 100% think that's the case.

[00:16:39] And we finally get to see them put the Statue of Liberty to use, kind of like how it was originally intended. But definitely not a good idea, but it's going to make for an interesting story. Y'all have a good one and take care. So I 100% agree that that's why Negan killed the Dama. I think it's because they couldn't agree that it needed to be done, so he stepped up to do it. I posted somewhere in the group a really interesting EW article with an interview with Jeffrey Dean Morgan

[00:17:06] in which he said a lot of his reasoning for killing the Dama was to protect Maggie and Herschel because he did not believe that she could be saved and therefore she was an ultimate threat. And he is so bought into Maggie as the leader that he couldn't handle having that threat and he knew that what you have to do in that situation, you have to get rid of the threat. So he did what they didn't have the stomach to do in his mind, which that tracks with him. Yeah, 100%. And it's that whole, you know, Negan is keeping...

[00:17:35] You're right. He does believe in Maggie as a leader, but he doesn't want that to come across as a sign of weakness. So he stays at the bar with Dillard because he believes in Maggie enough that he wants to stay close to her but doesn't want to live with them because then it feels like it looks like he's conforming. And he doesn't want to portray that, if that makes sense. Absolutely. Absolutely. So. All right. Next up, we have Josie Bowen-Ectol. Hello, Ben and Alex.

[00:18:05] Episode two is pretty good. I enjoyed it. I think with Seth Hoffman taking over a showrunner and it being the third season, we're finally getting where we were supposed to be with this show. Amen, Josie. First of all, I still don't fully trust Herschel. So even with Adama being dead, I would like to see more of how he suddenly changed his mind and came back to his mom. Otherwise, it's honestly just shitty writing and that would be disappointing. I don't want him to be a big bad, but it would be interesting to explore more of the manipulation.

[00:18:34] Even if it's a conversation, I would like to see he and Negan have more conversations as well. That could be fun. Secondly, I'm on the fence about Dillard. His story is intriguing, but I just don't buy him being an undercover cop. That was odd to me and I hope we learn more. I love his bar and condo situation though. Super interesting. I just don't think he reads as an undercover cop, honestly. Third, it was so fun to finally see the Statue of Liberty. I will say, when she had to go under restoration in the 80s,

[00:19:01] they fixed holes from the past water pooling, including part of the nose and the copper curl, and added internal weep holes to drain moisture. I think it's semi-believable that the nose would be damaged, but not fully to the extent they show it here. But damage sure is pretty and poetic on the eyes. I'll let it slide. All right, so, boobies. Or should I say the hilltops of kinship? My analysis is that Herschel could have painted it, or the Dama had someone paint it based off things Herschel said to her.

[00:19:29] Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I noticed a large tree, similar to the one Rick chose mercy over his wrath under. A woman sitting under this tree and a man was walking toward her. Could this be representative of Maggie and Negan? Then there's two men shaking hands, but one is all in black. Seems like it could be representative of a deal with the devil, or something like that, or maybe partnerships being forced. I also noticed two sheep in the corner, which made me think of how lambs are always spoken of in the Bible as sacrifice. Also notable, one hilltop is higher than the other.

[00:20:00] This painting has to have a payoff, and I'm hoping it includes Herschel and Negan having a conversation at the bar where we get to learn more. What do you guys think? Thanks for covering the show, guys. Keep it up. Holy cow, Josie, you really tackled on some really fun stuff. That's a I hit pause and analyze this painting moment. I loved it. It's great. I don't know why we didn't think to do it, in all honesty. I think we were just kind of like so engrossed with everything else that was going on.

[00:20:27] I at least rewound and watched that scene three times. For what that's worth, I did at least do that, but I just could not figure it out. I'm more of a goatee. I love for anybody that obviously you listened to the episode last week, but the clip that I chose for the beginning was Dillard doing his whole backstory of why he became a cop and how he is how he is. And the clip just ends with Negan saying, those are freaking boobies.

[00:20:56] And then it goes into the intro music because I just thought it was fun. Perfection. It was just fun to end with that. I have a couple of. Go ahead. No, I was just going to say, like, I think I stick to what I said last week that I definitely think there is more to that painting than. Yes. It's it's they wouldn't have just given us a painting without it having some kind of deeper meaning. Correct. And the fact that Negan went back for it and it's now hanging in the bar, I think means something.

[00:21:25] We're going to find out more about that painting later. We have to. I would hope so. I do want to say one thing that Josie mentioned with Herschel. I've done a full 180. I don't think Herschel has has a negative bone in his body. I think what they're doing with him and Luis and all of that, like clearly they're showing us that Herschel has turned. And I will say my gut instinct is to all the fans out there, we're not going to get much more explanation of how Herschel turned. We're just going to have to accept that Herschel's on the good side.

[00:21:55] Now he had a change of heart when the dominant and like, I think they're going to gloss over that. He's supposed to accept that it's over with and he's now on the right. I do think that. What do you think? No, I agree. And I think, you know, Josie, like I wouldn't say it's shitty writing, but I do think it was a little glossed over. I said that last week, too, that I think it's I think it's a little glossed over.

[00:22:23] They kind of didn't explain that that well. I don't know if I wanted them to spend more time on the Dama, though. I don't think they needed to. I mean, I've I'm good with you. I I'm with you. I have it in my notes this week and we'll we'll dive into it a little bit further when we go into the episode that I also have different thoughts on Herschel. Now, this episode in particular reinforced a lot of them. There was a moment that we'll get to that, like, brought the buckets for me.

[00:22:53] Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so we'll we'll get into it. We'll get into it. But again, I don't think it's shitty writing, but I do. I'll give you a clunky as hell. It's I agree. It's convenient writing. Like the reset button was half pushed at that point. Yeah. So like their finger was already on the button, so they just needed to get through it quickly. At least once every 108 minutes. Oh, God damn.

[00:23:22] One per episode, buddy. One per episode. That's three for three so far. I'm surprised you didn't do it when you when you read Josie saying man in black. I did consider it. I did. Oh, Jacob. Because because the other one was Jacob. It's so true. So. All right. You're next. Moving on. Did you know Sam's Club isn't a store? It's actually a club with cool finds and like a whole community. It's a club. Of course, Jason. It's in the name. Sam's Club.

[00:23:50] Oh, yeah. Come join us. Sam's Club.

[00:24:23] This episode is brought to you by Facebook. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome? That's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50-page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome. Check responses set up required. Compatibility and availability varies 18+.

[00:24:52] This one comes from Beth Hilari. Sorry if I pronounced that wrong. For the first episode, I felt like they fast-forwarded the relationships too fast. For instance, Negan and Maggie, we were literally trying to kill each other 24 hours before, but the episode ended with her having the biggest smile I've ever seen on her face with Negan. I think that should have ended with neutral feelings between them, rather than her being so happy and joking with them.

[00:25:17] And Herschel and Dama, the last episode had been with him telling his mom to hit the bricks because he was all in on the Dama. Then, within 24 hours, he's coming to his mom to say he's seen the light. I think we should have seen how he came to that, and it just happened so fast. We were just talking about this. I understand that they had to wipe the slate clean, but it was ridiculously fast. I love seeing the city in the daylight more. Like with the Daryl show, the city itself is almost like a character. Oh, it's 100% a character.

[00:25:47] It's not like a character. It is a character. It's really fun to watch the characters maneuver around the cars, dumpsters, and buildings. In episode two, it came back to what I loved about the original show. It was people working together, planning for the future, organizing, and strategizing. Even with Negan and his buddy, Dillard, that was realistic. Negan, back in the day, played tons of video games, so that's a callback. And I do believe the frog on the bar top is to show that someone is upstairs.

[00:26:16] I really love the new community, and I agree with you guys. I hope they don't just use a cookie-cutter idea of a group of bad guys with a big bad leader they have to fight. I hope they find a unique way to weave in the antagonist. Regarding the painting, whenever I see something like these boobies, it reminds me of the nuclear power plant near where I grew up. It made famous on the Naked Gun movie. See, that's where I went, was the Naked Gun movie.

[00:26:45] With Leslie Nielsen when he was thinking about his wife. So maybe it's the Indian Point power plant. My prediction for the end of the show, not sure if that will be season three or if they're going to have a season four, is that Carol and Daryl arrive at the Statue of Liberty and those characters reunite. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll see the rest of the gang. Also, I find it hard to believe that they are just going to disregard the existence of Negan's wife and kid. He and Maggie have worked so hard to protect Ginny and Herschel,

[00:27:13] but he doesn't wonder about the struggles his wife and kid might be going through. The Dama, or whoever it was, was able to bring them to the island, but then banish them. Even if he had left them in a safe community, some communities aren't safe forever, as we've seen. Plus, just being on the road to get to Manhattan isn't a safe trip. So I feel like they need to reunite them. Negan will have his family and a reason to be a good person, and Maggie will have her son. Then we can bring back Daryl and Carol.

[00:27:41] Maybe they can even help fight a battle together. Although I wouldn't be surprised if Carol died. There is a lot to unpack in that. Man, I'm going to start at the end, and then you go where you want. But I will say, are you caught up on House of the Dragon? Oh, no. We talked about this last week. I haven't even watched since season two. Oh, bloody hell. All right. Well, in it, a character talked about the horrors of traveling on the King's Road as a woman.

[00:28:08] And I really like what Beth mentioned here about, you know, really, he's not invested in their safety and well-being now. That does not seem to be in line with the character of Negan that we've been force-fed for the last few seasons of television. Like, that's a great point, because it is an extremely dangerous, psychotic world out there. And he's not going to do any checking like, oh, they're better off without me.

[00:28:37] Are they? Are you sure about that? So I like that call out of like, that he's not doing any follow-up checking. And I hope that somewhere down the line, they aren't done in the story. I mean, he did recently reference them as early as this year. Last episode. Yeah, yeah. So maybe there is a chance that they'll still be a part of the story, because I do think it's crazy to think Negan wouldn't check up on them. Yeah, I think they're still in the back of his head.

[00:29:05] I don't think he's completely written them off and 100% agrees. I think once Negan gets a taste for how life can be with this New York that Maggie and Renata are building, I think there's a part of him that's going to want to see Annie and Josh again. And maybe try to bring them back or hope that they find their way back to New York on their own. Yep. So, yeah, I agree with that too. And I'm trying to look over.

[00:29:34] I think you pretty much covered everything that's in there. I don't know if we're going to see, well, to the other point that I don't, of seeing Daryl and Carol maybe pop up and maybe not see anybody else. There's definitely other survivors out there from the original show that we could see pop up. We've mentioned Aaron. We've mentioned Ezekiel. There are definitely people that could still pop up in New York. So while I don't gamble, and I think that the futures trading is a terrible, terrible thing,

[00:30:03] I would say if you could put money on the idea of there being an Avengers-style crossover of all of The Walking Dead shows before the end, it's going to happen. I am firmly convinced that there will be some level of collaboration. So I do think we're going to see Daryl and Carol at the end, and I completely agree with Beth on that one. Well, see, here's the fun thing for me is that in just a number of weeks, I'm going to be on stage with Ross Marquand again. Oh.

[00:30:56] Spinoff is going. It does kind of open doors for other characters to return. Would he be open to it if the idea of Aaron coming to New York is there? And we'll see what he says. Can I ask a potentially personal question? Of me or of Aaron? Yes. Okay. Has the beard always been something that Ross grew out? Was it ever a beard wig?

[00:31:25] Do we know that? Oh, I don't know, but I can ask. I would like to know if he ever wore, because of the Louise factor and the beard wig, like, I'd like to know if Ross Marquand ever beard wigged. And if not, like, has he ever been tempted to? I don't know. I'm fascinated with beard wigs right now for some reason. Hey, if it was a beard wig, it was definitely better than the one that they had Louise growing. And I find it funny, too, because when we announced Ross for Colorado, that's happening in a couple weeks.

[00:31:54] And by the way, if there are any listeners out there that are in the Colorado Springs area and want to come out to the show, please come out and find me in the panel room. I will happily meet you in person and such. But, like, I do find it funny that the image that we used is a bearded Ross Marquand. And so many people from wrestling fans out there told, like, were commenting, that's not Ross Marquand, that's Finn Balor. Which, when I saw that, I was like, holy shit, he really does look like Finn Balor.

[00:32:24] I love it. When he's bearded out. Anyway, I digress. I'm here for it. All right. Now we're transitioning over to the email feedback. Thanks, everybody, the emails. First one comes from Dave Burrows. Hi, just a quick email as I should be at work. Sorry, apologize for spelling and grammar mistakes. I have a prediction for the future of Walking Dead based on the last episode, Dead City. I think that the lighting up of the Statue of Liberty is the beginning of how all the spinoffs are tied up.

[00:32:52] If New York becomes a new superpower, it may come to the attention of the Civic Republic and or the Commonwealth. I don't know anything about American geography. You're not alone, Dave. But if there is a dock on New York and a lighthouse, it may be enough to attract a shitty sailor from Spain. I'm probably wrong, though. I don't know. It's literally what you just mentioned, that it could be site zero for a massive Walking Dead reunion.

[00:33:19] And what better place than arguably the birthplace of America? You could ask. You could say. Alexander Hamilton would have said New York was the birthplace of America. Okay, I've seen that play. Excuse me, you are talking to a podcaster from Philadelphia and you live in the same state not far away. I am wearing a representation of the Liberty Bell on my head. So I guess you're right. How dare you say New York is the birthplace of America?

[00:33:46] All right, it's the birthplace of financial America, which is the only America left. I will not argue with you on the birth of financial America. It's where Wall Street resides. And again, it's the only America left. That's not far from accurate. But thank you, Dave, for the email. But the next one comes from Colin Stilwell, who claimed he wasn't going to be able to send us an email. He is a liar. Oh, my goodness. Well, he funny enough. He starts off.

[00:34:16] Well, I lied. Turns out I have Wi-Fi this weekend, while next weekend I will not. We'll see, Colin. Now, I know the flack from me using here and from using here and here is well deserved, but welcome. And I must remind you that a certain gem of a character also coined the phrase here's not here so many times that it was the title of an episode. Clear that, Dr. Jones.

[00:34:40] Anyway, the whole time Maggie, the red flag, chirped on and on about how her two failed settlements brought people in, I thought she must have taken lessons from Negan's sophisticated school of shitheadery. I guess when you move from a place called the Bricks to Metropolis, you can call yourself Superman. Jesus, Colin. I never thought Maggie would drag Glenn across the pavement harder than Lucille's five-fingered discount barbed wire.

[00:35:09] Holy shit. The Dama's drama drills to a dead end due to Dwight's daddy descending the depths of the dark dinge and driving a dull dagger into her diaphragm. That is all. And by the way, that is two weeks in a row I nailed that in the first fucking take. You really did well, man. You really did well. The Seussian nature of Colin's emails at times can be quite the tongue twister.

[00:35:36] But you, my friend, you did a great job. Folks, I do not read these in advance. That was legitimately my first time reading that and nailed it on the first take. One of my favorite challenges is reading all of these blind and having never read them before. It is a delightful challenge. And you guys challenge us and I love it. I do.

[00:35:55] Yeah, I, um, again, I don't, uh, I, I don't read or listen to any of the feedback ahead of time because I like to kind of form my thoughts about them as we're progressing through them. And I hope people appreciate that. I really try hard to add proper inflection at different parts of the, you know, like, like you're really invested in listening to a live reading of a voicemail. That's, that's kind of where my head's at. Yeah.

[00:36:19] But it also makes me feel like I have to apologize for like, if I'm reading email, if I'm reading feedback wrong because it is my first time reading it. Absolutely. Yes. So. And our eyes aren't young anymore, Ben. We're getting old. No. I know. I have a bright enough light in front of me. All right. If you say so, if you say so. So, but that leads us into our voicemails for this week in which we have two.

[00:36:48] And the first one comes from Megan Dively-Leman, uh, Dively-Leman. So let's play that now. Hi there, Ben and Alex. It's your buddy, Megan. I'm calling in with some feedback for season three, episode one of Dead City and a little bit of holdover thoughts I had from the end of last season. I am driving, so I'm sorry if there's any weird road noises like turn signals and such.

[00:37:11] Um, so I too did not realize at the very beginning of the episode that these events were literally the day after Maggie stabbed Megan. Because when Herschel came back and said like, you know, I've seen the light. I realized the dom is, um, manipulative and she wanted me to kill you. I wouldn't do that. So I've come back to you, mom. And all that. And Maggie's like, like prodigal son, please come back for your hug. And everything is good. It's like, wait a second. That was one day?

[00:37:38] One night with Adana was enough to accomplish this huge change of heart with Herschel? Does not make a lot of sense. But it seems really sincere on his part. So I'm very confused. Anyway, um, the bartender is, I agree, a fantastic new character. I really hope they don't kill him as quickly as they did say the British guy in the Daryl show. Oh, spoiler alert. It seems like they always, the more colorful and awesome the new character, the quicker they kill them. Unfortunately, is how it seems to go.

[00:38:07] Um, one quibble I have with his food, food chain system, he would have to have an, a very, very large area devoted to the zombie, to the rotting zombies that create the maggots that feed the frogs and the frogs and so on. Because if you think about an apex predator, like the coyote is the apex predator in this situation, it would take a bazillion of everything under it to feed one coyote.

[00:38:35] Like a coyote needs to eat a turkey every couple of days, probably to, you know, to stay alive. So I think there's a, um, a limitation of space factor and also how quickly can the smaller things breed? Uh, and also you couldn't be killing a coyote to eat that often because it's not like coyotes are going to have babies every month, you know? So like, all right, well, I kind of dig this, but I want to see more details.

[00:38:59] Um, similarly, you know, I, I'm not trying to be the Debbie Downer, but the whole, we're going to put dad's zombified body in the tank to power the incubator thing, you know, create the methane. It seemed like fear of the walking dead level of ridiculousness. But what I did like about it is that even though dad is dead, he is still pitching in, taking care of that baby because mom is postpartum and needs some damn rest. So good job, dad.

[00:39:26] And yes, that was the brother of the two adult siblings that were introduced this season, the man and the woman. Um, they mentioned that there were, there were three of them and noticed that he said he put his uncle down, but he couldn't bring himself to put his brother down. That's why the brother was still alive in the hospital. Chucho, I think his name was. So anyway, the, the woman, the new character, I think she is going to be a love interest for Maggie.

[00:39:50] I'm going to call that now because at the end of the episode, after the baby was born and they were all celebrating and she and Maggie were smiling and leaning towards each other and talking about the future. And Maggie said she might stick around. I was not just reading that as a friendship thing. And here's what I like about this. Maggie has been in mourning for what, 16 years or however old Herschel is for Glenn and probably no one will ever fully accept another man in her life, but it's different.

[00:40:17] Like if she decides, you know, she falls in love with this woman, it feels somehow less like a direct replacement for Glenn. I'm thinking, um, another thing I wanted to mention. I thought your conversation about Annie was important. And, and the recollection I have from the last episode of the previous season was that he literally had Annie on his doorstep. He was looking out the window of the building and she was right there with the boy and he had them turn away.

[00:40:47] So he, she got that close. And what I find so like morbidly funny about this situation is at the very beginning of the first season of, of dead city. If I remember correctly, the storyline went something like Negan had sent Annie and Joshua on like a wagon train West to a new settlement that was supposed to be safer or something like that. And he was supposed to join them and it joined them. And then at that point is when he got waylaid and rerouted into this whole New York adventure with Maggie.

[00:41:14] So these poor people were traveling West with whatever group they're with somehow got snatched up by the very long arm of the Damas people. She must have bazillions of people out there. They could cross States and travel long distances, kidnap people and bring them back. And then just to be turned around and sent away when Negan was in charge and those, whatever goons were transporting them.

[00:41:42] God knows where they're at now, where they're getting their orders from. The whole situation is weird and funny. I can just imagine Annie and Joshua are like on the never ending Oregon and trail, like trip and hoping that they just don't get dysentery or like, you know, like they're wagging like floods in the river. The new characters, the guys we saw at the beginning and the end who were hanging up the flyers and then saw them at the Dama. I'm calling them Rose and Kranz and Guildenstern until we hear otherwise.

[00:42:08] And then my final point is something from the last episode of the season two finale. It was a point where Negan was talking to someone. I don't remember who it was. It might've been the historian guy and good on you guys from remembering all these people's names. I have no idea anymore, but he was talking to somebody in the context of like having to send Annie away and her relationship with her. And then he, he said, you know, and he mentioned a story about Lucille. He said, you know, something, something, my first wife and told the story about Lucille.

[00:42:37] And at that point I was looking at the TV with a stink eye thinking, okay, Negan, Lucille's number one. Annie's number two. What about all those women to the sanctuary? Were they 1.1, 1.2, 1.25, 1.3, and so on and so forth. Yeah. He failed to mention that. Final point, the death of the Crow Act.

[00:42:59] I loved that he fell down on the steps of the embassy for Croatia and looked up at the flag because all that stuff at the end of the last season about how he, you know, yearned for the homeland and everything and the stuff about his mother. Well, technically did he die on Croatian soil because he was at the embassy? I don't know, but I bet that was fitting. Anyway, thank you for your coverage as always. Looking forward to taking this trip with you. Bye. Okay.

[00:43:29] There is a lot to unpack. So I realized halfway through I needed a pen so I could take notes. And so Megan, the first, the first 20 minutes of your voicemail, I did, I didn't take notes, but the second, I'm kidding. That was awesome. You brought up so many things that I love and that I wanted to talk about. I have two right off the top. Number one. Okay, guys, I'm a guy. I can't say a thing. I don't, I like, I don't know. I didn't want to say it, but like,

[00:43:58] I also kind of caught like a little bit of a vibe between Maggie and Renata in like the first two episodes in their relationship. So really happy that Megan also pointed out that like, huh, a little bit of a, you know, a little something going on there. I think possibly, I don't know. I'd love that for her. I think the, I think it's the only way the fans would allow her to move on at this point in the game. And it's 2026, you know, let love be love. So I'm here for it. I hope so. I think Renata is a great character. It's look, I,

[00:44:27] I don't have a problem with it. If that ends up being the case and there does end up being the relationship between Maggie and Renata, I'm not faulting that at all. I think they're both great characters, um, who deserve happiness in their own way, especially in the world that we're living in. And this could be the reason why, you know, Lauren Cohan said like, no, absolutely not to shipping her and her and Negan is because there was already a ship that was being. Absolutely.

[00:44:56] There was already a ship at play. And it's so funny that this was brought up now because one of my notes for this coming episode is I kind of since there being a vibe between Maggie and Louise in a particular scene of this episode. But now you wonder, it could, it could be Renata. Like it could, that could already be there. Yeah. This is some Adam and Alan of Hull stuff going on. She's just a bailout. Anyways, I, it's yeah, it's, it's a,

[00:45:25] it's, it's a 16 year long rebound. Um, yes, I, I love the idea. of the Croat dying on Croatian soil. Absolutely. I, I remember when that happened, I was like, huh, I, I, I'm pretty sure that that's what that means. And if so, I thought that was pretty poetic as well. And like, thank you, Megan. Cause I forgot to mention that. And you crushed bringing that home because yeah,

[00:45:53] that is such a poignant because of who he is. That's his name is the Croat. That's his literal identity is Croatia. So for him to be able to die home, that's pretty dope. Yeah. I didn't even put that together when we watched that episode either. Like that's such a great insight that. Yeah. That I didn't even think about. And now I'm pondering it even more and I'm, I'm of the same ilk. And I'm like, yeah, like that's really beautiful actually. Absolutely. Like it,

[00:46:20] it meant that that whole moment with Negan and the Croat was meaningful to both of them because it meant that it was the last of the old Negan dying, but it was also the Croat dying on home on his homeland, which was, it's how bad it makes that scene so much better. It does. So much. It was already great. Especially with Negan being the one to put him down and everything like in him getting like, yeah. So I think all of it was, and again, that's why the Croat got his episode. The Dama got her episode. And that's why we got a clean slate starting episode three.

[00:46:50] Yeah. One other thing that Megan brought up and I had this thought like two weeks ago, I was doing the dishes. Okay. I had, it was, it had nothing to do with the walking dead, but I was thinking about just Negan and the sanctuary and the wives and the one wife that was worried that she was pregnant, yada, yada. And I, I had a thought, okay, what if she was pregnant from her husband and didn't want Negan to know she was pregnant because he hadn't slept with her. So if she was pregnant,

[00:47:17] it would be proof that she had slept with her husband who then got the iron to the face. I, Oh, Dwight. You mean, no, not Dwight. There was another guy. Oh no. Okay. And, and like, and that was the problem was that she and he were still obviously in love their husband and wife. Negan had taken, still terrible, horrible things, horrible things. But I think maybe that's how sometimes JDM tries to say nothing physical ever occurred because he wasn't the one to, to put the baby in. The dad was,

[00:47:47] but they didn't want him to know that she had done anything. So I look, I'm, I'm going to be, I don't want this to sound like a cop out at all, but I think that's probably, I think that could be legitimate. I'd, when JDM says that like, Negan never slept with any of them. They were just his wives. Like to have a harem. I honestly, I think there's some truth to that. I'm, I'm not going to. And I know people have Megan's voicemail is proof positive that

[00:48:16] there are certain things about Negan. People are never going to let go. And the biggest one is all the wives. That's the one thing that nobody, that people who are against Negan and the character of Negan are never going to be able to let go. And JDM, me, you, anybody could tell them till we're blue in the face that he never slept with them. They were just a harem. They were simply just to show he has power. And he was still faithful to Lucille by not sleeping with these women.

[00:48:45] We could tell them that till we're blue in the face and they will never believe it. And that's fine. You can have that opinion. You can be, you can have that be the reason why you will never be a fan of Negan. I legitimately think there is some proof to that. And that's just not me saying that because I love the character of Negan. I think that could be true. You know, not every harem has to be Hugh Hefner where you actually sleep with the women you're, you're, you're with super true.

[00:49:16] Super true. Um, and the other thing I'm going to say about Megan's voicemail before we, we move on to, to Steve's. Um, and I'll keep this as simply as possible. How dare you compare anything dead city to fear the walking dead? I, you know, I was curious about that. How dare you, Megan? I think, I think dead city leans into a bit of the cheesiness to really go for the sentimental. Again,

[00:49:44] we'll talk about more of it this week. Um, but they really like to lean into sentimental and sappy. And like, I'm okay with that dude. Like I do, I still watch Gilmore girls every now and then. Like I'm cool with a little bit of sappy and sentimental. It's fine. Yeah. I'm, I'm a fan of that kind of look, dude, every once in a while I've, I've even posted this on Facebook that like, I'm in the mood to cry. Give me something to watch. Absolutely. Yes. Cause I'm that way too. Like I will go back.

[00:50:13] I have gone back and purposely gone rewatched episode, not full episodes, just particular scenes of Ted Lasso. Yeah. Because I know they will make me cry. Yes. Jamie Tart, uh, smacking his dad and then the Roy. Oh my God. Not, it's not even him punching his dad. It's Roy hugging him. Yeah, buddy. Afterwards. And then leading to Ted calling Dr. Sharon. Yeah. It's, it's almost as powerful as scrubs. Where do you think we are? Oh my God.

[00:50:42] Another heartbreaking moment, man. Not Penny's, but one that still makes me cry and not to, but like, dude, the one scene of Ted Lasso that I have rewatched more than any other scene of that show with the exception of Phoebe's bad breath. Sure. Um, and Roy's reaction to it is Sam Obisanya turning around, going to his locker, pulling out the piece of the believe sign and throwing it down. That is good. That is good.

[00:51:13] Oh man. Sorry to anybody. Like, I am not. Okay. Moving on. We got one more voicemail, buddy. We got one. We got one more voicemail. Dude, we're already like 45 minutes in. I am so excited. We haven't even started talking about this week. Um, but yeah, we have one more voicemail to talk about. And that of course comes from our friend, Steve Brown. So let's go ahead and play that. Hello, Ben and Alex. This is Steve. And this is going to be for the walking dead, dead city Haven. Oh, there's the statue of Liberty. We've been talking about it for two seasons or whatever.

[00:51:42] And she's got no nose. I guess they have power enough to play video games in the bar. Yes. That's Dillard has power in the bar. And Herschel's learning medicine on Walker parts. So now Armstrong is with them, but he's leaving. And Maggie's become elite. I don't understand. There's a whole lot of time apparently has passed between the season, episode one and episode two. Oh, and now we hear Negan mentioned Annie and Joshua, but he's saying they're better off without him. Whoa. I was questioning them walking into this trap, but apparently they're good enough to take on these guys.

[00:52:12] And now Maggie just saved the Dama's life. Armstrong said he's going back to new Babylon. Does that mean new Babylon has left Manhattan? Hey, good call. I see he shaved that beard off. Oh, Herschel, you're asking Maggie to teach you how to kill. Hey, Dillard left the bar. He's out walking with Negan. Seriously, dude, you're not talking to the Walker and Walker is not talking to you. Negan just dropped an air conditioner on that Walker's head. So it appears that Dillard is trying to come back to the land of the living through Negan. Now they're your mama joking each other.

[00:52:42] So Maggie just talked about, they did bring everybody from the bricks or people from the bricks there. Does signs say that he didn't want Negan to light a cigarette propane or what? Yeah, I was just going to ask about like the Commonwealth and Alexandria and Maggie just admitted she's trying to keep the hospital secret. So that makes sense, I guess. Hey, so Armstrong is going to try to change new Babylon and the Dama starts eating. How many more tanks did they build since, Oh, there's the statue of Liberty again. Oh, and they're lighting the statue of Liberty. That's what they were doing with the extra tanks. Oh,

[00:53:11] and there's the Dama as a Walker. And of course that's the end with the army walking out of the forest to go attack the statue of Liberty. Maybe. All right. On to next week. Yeah. Um, it's a great recap, Steve. It's a great, it's a great recap. It's, it's not an episode of, of walking dead cast without a live steving from Steve. Darn tootin'. I'm here for it. Did you know Sam's club isn't a store? It's actually a club with cool finds and like a whole community. It's a club. Of course,

[00:53:41] Jason, it's in the name, Sam's club. Oh, yeah. Come join us. Sam's club. This episode is brought to you by Facebook. So you were scrolling on marketplace and there it was the bike you'd been searching for. You sent a message and it turned out the seller was super chatty, kind of funny and an avid cyclist. The next thing you know, you're in a cycling crew. Well, a community cycling group. The thing about Facebook,

[00:54:10] you might find more than what you're looking for from a browse to a bike ride. This summer, find more on Facebook. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block, or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it. Ready to make anything online make sense? There's no place like Chrome.

[00:54:39] Check responses set up required compatibility and availability varies 18 plus. And we're going to talk a little bit about that whole Dillard talking to zombies. Yeah, that is, I cannot wait to get there, but I guess first, you know, we should set the stage for the show proper. Yes, please do. Uh, I am back to writing the description again this week. So Alex, uh, give that a go.

[00:55:08] Let's do it again this week. The walking dead, dead city season three, episode three immigrants plot summary. As Manhattan's new community begins to grow. Maggie's decision to welcome survivors in immediately puts to the test when two rival groups arrive seeking refugee after fleeing violence, violence across the river with tensions threatening to erupt into another war. Maggie struggles to find a path toward peace while Negan Dillard and the others race to keep the fragile settlement from falling apart. Meanwhile,

[00:55:37] Herschel steps into a larger role proving he may be more capable than anyone expected. Season three. How'd I do this week? You did very well, sir. You did very well. Um, yeah, there was a lot of meat on the bone of this episode. Um, it immediately put to test Maggie's, you know, let's open the borders in a really unique way, man. It wasn't, it was a threat, but it wasn't a direct threat, which was fascinating.

[00:56:05] It was two warring factions, bloodied and bruised from battle coming onto their shores in need of medical attention. Fast. Yeah. Smart. I, I like the fact that we, we got an immediate resolution. They didn't leave us hanging, like seeing all those people coming out of the woods, looking at the statue of Liberty. They didn't leave us hanging for a couple episodes before these people came to the shores. We got an immediate resolution in this episode. They came to the shores. We find out that they're battle wounded. They need tending to,

[00:56:35] and then another group comes to shore at the same time. They're in the same situation. And it proves once again, what we were asking for last episode is that we're not going to get an antagonist. We're not going to get like a big bad of any kind of season. The villain of this season is survival. Yes. And, and that is what we want after last week's episode. That is what we wanted for this season. And even with so many opportunities to go towards an internal battle of Renata,

[00:57:05] Maggie and Negan, even that's not necessarily rearing its head yet. That doesn't mean it won't happen, but they're laying the breadcrumbs of discord and the breadcrumbs, crumbs of who should be the leader, but it's not really in a nefarious way. We're not seeing a lot of manipulation going on per se. Like it's just, it's a very wholesome story of how to keep a home going in, in a zombie apocalypse. Well, and I don't even think,

[00:57:32] I don't even think there's inner turmoil between the three of them. Like, yes, there's disagreements, but that's always going to be the case no matter how you look at it. I've in any kind of civilization, there's going to be disagreements consistently. It's all a matter of how you come to a resolution of those. And we saw that like, even the week came on board. If it feels like we have a council at this point of leadership, we've got Maggie, we've got Renata, we've got Louise and we've got Negan. Yeah.

[00:58:01] And even by the end of this episode, we've, we kind of feel like there is a little bit of a compromise between them. Like they're all viewing each other's point of views. They're discussing it. They're, they're talking it over. And while there might be disagreements, they're at least listening to each other, which is something that needed to be done. And like, yes, some of our feedback this week mentioned failed civilization or failed

[00:58:27] communities that Maggie has tried to lead and hasn't been able to do so. But there's been one thing missing from all of that. And that is, or one central point to those previous ones with the Commonwealth and Hilltop and all them are not Commonwealth, but the Hill, but Hilltop and Alexandria. And that is Maggie was doing it on her own. She's not doing it on her own this time. True. Very true. Which is why there's a higher success rate of this actually working this time.

[00:58:58] Yeah. And they have the type of location. Again, it is completely surrounded by water, therefore completely surrounded defensively from anything except for some sort of a naval, naval attack. So they have the ability to really fortify and really strengthen their resources, the establishment and all of that. So it, it gives them one of the best chances at survival of all time. Um,

[00:59:24] but I like how Negan respected both Maggie and Renata enough. Like when he and Dillard were air guitaring the guns and she was like, you know, don't shoot anyone unless on my order. He's like, you got boss lady. He meant that he genuinely did. Like he wasn't going to shoot without her ordering. Um, and I think that's fascinating. Now, granted, he still wants Maggie to take control. He believes more in Maggie than Renata. He thinks that, and that's,

[00:59:53] that's one interesting. I wonder if, because Renata fell to the Dama and the Croat, he doesn't respect her as much as Maggie who defeated the better version of the Croat, which is Negan. It's possible. So he sees her as a better option for a leader. Yeah, it's, it's definitely possible. I mean, and he has more of a relationship with, with Maggie than he does Renata anyway. Renata is still somebody that's new to him.

[01:00:20] So of course there's going to be a higher level of trust in Maggie than there is in Renata. Where there could be potential tension. I, I honestly think as good as things are right now, I could see there being some tension between Maggie and Renata in the future, purely because of how they're going to look at where Negan fits into all of this. Yep. Renata is, you know, she's not, she,

[01:00:45] I think she feels that her and Maggie can do this on their own with Luis's help, especially now that Luis has kind of come around to everything after everything that happened in this episode. Maggie, on the other hand, I think still sees Negan as an asset, especially when it comes to maybe doing the dirty work. Yep. And when Maggie relies on Negan for some of that stuff in the future, which I'm sure she will, it's a matter of how is she going to approach that?

[01:01:14] Is she going to be very open with Renata and tell her that this is what she's doing? Or is she going to keep this from Renata because she doesn't want, because she knows how Renata feels about this. Right. So that could potentially be a little bit of tension between the two of them going forward. I like that. I like that. And I kind of hope so, because again, there will at some point have to be a larger tension. I'm liking this by the week tension. No clue where it goes from here. Again, like they've done a good job of,

[01:01:43] of working through the immediate problem. I mean, we got, you know, I have it somewhere in my notes, but I think 136 new members of the community, like that's. 100, we, we managed to turn around 146 out of 148. Not too shabby. Not too shabby. Um, they got people to plow. Well, and especially when you, especially when you consider the two that they couldn't turn around were the leaders of both groups who, they were the reason for the,

[01:02:11] the tension between the two groups to begin with. Evidently. You've eliminated the tension, the source of the tension. Yes. Um, do you believe they killed each other or did Negan do it? No, but I'd ask, um, they had weapons in hand. They, and I loved, I loved that resolution plan by Renata of here's the deal. We're going to lock you in central part. Here are a bunch of weapons. You can till the grass or you can kill each other.

[01:02:40] I don't care. Do one or the other. See you in the morning. Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant idea of how to, um, decide. Can you live in our community? Can you put your bullshit aside and live in our community? And 146 out of 148 were able to. Well, that was one of my things when I was watching this episode too, is the whole episode up until the end, the entire run of the episode. It,

[01:03:05] they keep saying that their only choices are that they kill each other or one stays and one goes. And in the back of my mind, I'm like, I must've had like the sense of Renata because I'm like, no, like they can all stay. Like, why does it have to be one goes? Like nobody has to die in this situation. Poor leadership leads to poor decisions. But again, thankfully you got rid of the poor leaders and everyone else followed. Everyone else stayed in line. Like it was delightful. You,

[01:03:35] you eliminated, actually they didn't even eliminate the weak links of the chain. The weak links of the chain broke on their own. Absolutely. Yes. Yes. And now they have that stronger chain. And now the community is a lot stronger. I will say the downside of 146 new people. Yes. That's great manual labor. Maggie said they have a lot of food. It's about to be tested. That is a whole lot of brand new mouths to add into the equation. And Holy crap.

[01:04:02] Did they take out a bunch of hospital resources right the heck away between medicines and things like that. And then you heard them say that like, yeah, they're gonna have to do some rolling blackouts of energy just because again, they've added 146 more individuals to this community. So I, again, I really liked that. We are looking at the infrastructure of rebuilding civilization. Yeah. Amidst this,

[01:04:28] because the beautiful thing that this episode is for it's bad enough having to try to operate on people with only one fully trained doctor and not a ton of great instruments and medicine and rolling blackouts. But then when your patients die, they become murderous, ravenous creatures that are going to attack the other living that you're trying to save. Like it is,

[01:04:56] it is one crappy thing after another, after another, after another in this episode. And it really shows you, damn, even without a big bad, things are hard enough. You don't need a big bad to explain just how difficult the zombie apocalypse is. Well, that's what I said too. Like, I love the fact that they're setting up this season for that. The big bad of this season is to be survival. Yes. And like, like you do make a good point that like when your patients die, they do become zombies.

[01:05:25] They become walkers. But Luis, man, like Luis is no stranger to this. When he's, when he's got the Sharpies in hand and he's like green me, if they can talk and they can walk, they're green, purple, purple means they can, or, you know, purple means they can still talk. Right. Red is, if they're marked in red, they're strapped and handcuffed to the bed. Like he, this is not his first foray into this. Like he knows that, but what they showed us in this episode that like,

[01:05:51] even there are still things that happen that you can't plan for. There was a guy that had a broken arm who ended up dying from a hemorrhage and he was a walker and bit into another patient. Yup. And, you know, I would love to see that as an episode of the pit, but not really. The Halloween episode. A Halloween episode of the pit. Look, if they can do it in community. Amen, brother. I think, um, go ahead. No, I was just going to say too,

[01:06:21] but like it's, we're going to, there's going to have to be a shift. Cause you do bring up a good point that they're going to have to rely more on resources and resource management for anybody that's ever, there's a game out there called frost punk. And it's a game where like you have a furnace in the beginning or in the middle of your town that you build your town around. And the main thing in this is powering this furnace and power resource management,

[01:06:50] because the more resources you use to power it, the more people survive, but the less resources you into it, people die. And we see that in this episode that they don't, they're going through a serious power drain because of respirators and everything that they're using to survive, to help these people survive. It made me realize that like, okay, yes, walkers are a threat, but you're going to have to shift now from killing walkers to hoarding walkers.

[01:07:20] That's because there are only so many in this city. Like, yes, I'm sure there are still a lot, but the more people you bring in, the more you're going to have to like, hoard walkers. Like you're going to have to have warehouses where you're just storing walkers. And I do have to wonder. Because they are now your power source. They are. And I have to wonder, while I don't know enough, like is Manhattan big enough? Like how many walkers would there be just on Manhattan?

[01:07:49] Or are they going to have to go to the mainland, kill and transport over and eventually? Oh, I'm sure there are still hundreds of thousands of walkers in this city. All right. That makes sense. That makes sense. Because, well, I mean, look at what we got in season one. Eventually Maggie's going to realize that a lot of these walkers are underground. That's so true. That's right. And they haven't even tapped that yet. Yeah. Yeah. Tap that resource. They, yeah, they still haven't even tapped that resource yet.

[01:08:19] I mean, so other than, you know, learning how they're going to have to manage resources and things like that, I kind of want to go back to, um, my only, I just want to get this out of the way now. there was one disappointment I had in this episode. Okay. Um, and it's, it's just a personal disappointment. It's not a writing thing or anything like that. I've been saying for a while that I wanted this show to be,

[01:08:47] to end with Negan finally seeing the statue of Liberty, but unfortunately we're not going to get that now. No, because he's seen it. He's already seen it. And it wasn't, so it was a lot more important to you than it was to the writers. Apparently. It was, it really was. Cause he says like, I saw your little light show. So clearly he has seen the statue of Liberty. He, he knows he's gotten to see it. It's fine. It doesn't mean we still can't get a prediction I made earlier. We're like his death scene.

[01:09:17] Is it the foot of the statue of Liberty? But right. But I don't know Sigmund Freud said on his podcast, sometimes a throwaway line is just a throwaway line. Oh, it is podcast. Yes. Okay. Um, I do, but since we are talking about a little bit of a heartbreak that I have personally, I want to make one other point. Yes. Things are going good in this community and they're, they're learning to communicate. They're learning to get along. They're getting through things.

[01:09:47] They're getting through these hardships. We're starting to really love Renata and Luis. Yeah. Which gives me fear because I have a feeling that, they're making us comfortable to set us up for some major heartbreak by the end of this season in the loss of either Luis or Renata. So the eighth bullet point on my sheet is, and I quote, I'm going to be so sad when Luis dies.

[01:10:16] He's clearly the one that's going to go. And it's going to be, I'm going to guess it's going to be Negan that has to kill him. And maybe it's because Luis finds something out and Negan has to silence him or protect Dillard or something. But I think that's going to be how the season ends. That Negan's going to take out Luis. I'm going to disagree with you a little bit. Okay. I'm not saying you're not wrong in that Negan's going to have to be the one to take out Luis. However,

[01:10:46] a different scenario came to my head and I'm going to make a lost comparison here that I know you'll understand. In the scene where Luis is telling Herschel, I got this. I got this. Go take care of these patients. I got a little bit of Jack's hero complex in Luis, especially considering that just like Jack with the castaways of loss, him being the only doctor, Luis is the same way. Now, Herschel is in training. Yes.

[01:11:15] But Luis is still the primary. He's going to feel like he needs to step up and be the primary. And I feel like that whole go, I got this. I got this. Like, I feel like that might in some time come back and bite him. Literally. Oh, now, whilst I see what you're saying, he did also have that moment where he just verbally talked Herschel through incubating a patient. Intubate. Intubating. Intubating. Intubating.

[01:11:45] Incubating. Yeah. Whatever it is. Psych major. Not real science. Yeah. So, yeah, whatever that phrase is. So I, I do think he does have a little bit of the, but again, that's also partially Jack would have said that to Kate, like if Kate had to intubate someone. So great point. Yeah. All right. Fair enough. Now, granted, Luis does have that hero complex because he's had no choice but to develop that hero complex. I'm guessing. Yeah. You know, like the castaways in, in lost were like a number of,

[01:12:14] were less than a year in throughout all of this. Jack had that hero complex going in. Luis has developed that hero complex because he had no choice. That's true. It has been 14 years of the ZI or six, but I have 20, but, but I have a feeling that if anybody, if Luis is the one we lose between the two of them, I don't think it's going to be Negan that has to put him down. I think it's going to be Renata. Like, well, put him down as a human or as a Walker? As a Walker. Oh yeah. No, I, that's fair.

[01:12:44] I think Negan's going to kill him. I don't know why he's going to kill him, but I think Negan's going to be the one to kill Luis if Luis dies. Okay. No, that's, I hope I'm wrong, but it would make the most sense now that he is Herschel's mentor slash surrogate father figure. He is Renata's brother and potentially a love interest for Maggie. Like that's a whole lot of people he could piss off by killing them. I just, but I do. I just have this fear that by the end of this season, one of these two are not long for this world. And,

[01:13:14] and it's basically as an audience, it's, it's the writers really setting us up for a heartbreak. And because things are only going to be good for so long. Yeah. No one's going to watch a show where it's always a happy ending at the end. That's not, if that's, if you're expecting a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention to quote Ramsey. I mean, look, there's always the possibility that it could be Herschel too, but I mean, cause they did it with, we lost Carl. So, I mean,

[01:13:42] that was more contractual than story. They made way work, but it wasn't like it was a creative decision that narratively made sense. Um, that was contractual. That is very true. But I mean, it doesn't mean they can't write off a character because it makes sense to a story. But another thing they're doing this season with dead city is they are rewriting our expectations. They are telling us to not necessarily expect what we've always expected or what we always assumed we would get from this story.

[01:14:12] So I hope that they keep on throwing us curve balls and that they keep on giving us ways. Cause I really thought that there would be more fallout from, um, Negan and the Dama or like that was real glossed over. And I, when I watched it again today, no indication whatsoever. I felt that Maggie, uh, believed that Negan killed the Dama at all, or that she even considered that that was an option. Uh, well, I said that last week. I, that was my prediction last week was that she,

[01:14:41] because of how she was stabbed. Right. And how Maggie set up the scenario for her. Yeah. So now here's a question for you. Go on. Do you think there is a possibility because of, so using the scene that we saw in this episode of Negan and Dillard messing with the two leaders, uh,

[01:15:08] and trying to pit them against it or trying to get them to admit who's wrong. Yep. And him telling Maggie, we're just having a little bit of fun. Mm hmm. Do you think there's a possibility that Negan actually didn't kill the Dama and she really did kill herself and he just kind of tortured her to the point of doing it? Nah, man, she wouldn't have called for help if she was intending, if she was going to kill herself. She didn't want to die. She had just decided to eat the food. She was like, you know what?

[01:15:36] I'm going to stay alive and see what happens next. She, she decided not to die. And then Negan said, actually, you don't have that decision. Okay. No, that's totally fair. And again, it was just something I just thought of that could potentially be a possibility. Cause again, it was something we did not see happen. Correct. We, we didn't see it. Correct. So, um, I, I have to give the team a whole lot of credit because a character I have not liked. I don't know. I like Herschel,

[01:16:06] but I have not cared about Herschel yet in this entire series, but damned if they didn't do a great job of editing Scott Wilson into this episode, showing Herschel as a doctor, doing doctor stuff. And Maggie seeing him being a proud, dedicated doctor. And like what that has to mean as a Herschel and a doctor, like, damn, great symbolism. You guys got me, you got me in the fields. My eyes were a little misty. It was, it was amazing. I love that.

[01:16:35] I'm, I'm going to go back to a point that you just made not too long ago about how the writers are doing a good job about make, about subverting our expectations of this season. And, you know, compared to what's happened in the past, in the, in the past, in the previous seasons, the biggest version of, of expectations for me is Herschel. Yep. I was not a fan of Herschel the first two episodes. And I have really come around on him as a character.

[01:17:02] I loved seeing him step up and, and do the things that needed to be due, overcoming that fear of being able to put the incubation tube down the patient's throat, dealing with the loss of, of a patient, you know, for the first time as every doctor has to do. And in the situation that it happened with Herschel and seeing the pride in Maggie's eyes, seeing the fear in Maggie's eyes turn to pride. Yeah.

[01:17:32] Yeah. In that moment was fantastic. I have so come around on Herschel in, from this episode specifically. Much like Jeff Winger said to Abed Nadir in the series premiere, I understand your purpose now. Um, I understand Herschel. I wanted to call him Carl. Herschel's purpose now in the story. And I really thoroughly like of, yes,

[01:18:01] make him a doctor, uh, apprentice, make that part of his repertoire, give him the strength. Holy crap. We finally got to see his knives, his knife throwing in action. And it was his, his, his scapel skills. It was gangster. And like, yeah, man, let's do this with Herschel. Yes. This is so much more interesting than the turncoat manipulated bullshit from seasons one and two. And like,

[01:18:26] I understood from a storytelling perspective and from the story they were telling in seasons one and two, why they did that storyline with Herschel. I get that. I understood all of it. And I went, I was along for the ride, but this is head and shoulders better than anything from seasons one and two. And I'm really bought in and like, I'm cheering for Herschel now. And they did that real fast, real fast. They got me cheering for Herschel. Well, not only that,

[01:18:52] but I think like seeing how he was in this episode and seeing him step up and seeing him do everything that he needed to do. I think it's kind of, well, yes, the writers kind of rushed through the whole turning of Herschel from the Dama back to Maggie. I think it made it a little bit more believable because it did show this episode Herschel strength of character. And it made us, I think it made it easier to be like, okay, I could understand. Like,

[01:19:20] clearly he does have a very strong character. I think that makes it a little bit more believable that he did see his fault in teaming with the Dama and return home. Yes. Yes. And, and I'm, I am super here to see what we do with this character from now, because I feel like this is the real season premiere episode in a lot of ways that the last two episodes were half cleaning up seasons one and two, half setting up season three. And like,

[01:19:47] it was like a backdoor pilot into a brand new version of dead city. And it's working wonderfully. So I, I don't know where the rest of the season's going from here, but I'm super bought in. Did you know Sam's club isn't a store? It's actually a club with cool finds and like a whole community. It's a club.

[01:20:34] Of course, you might find more than what you're looking for from a browse to a bike ride this summer. Or find more on Facebook.

[01:21:12] This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. Ben, that we are 76 minutes into this podcast and we have not discussed the Dillard of it all. Holy shit. Okay. All right. So before we get to the reveal of the end, I'd like to, I kind of want to, I kind of want to save the Dillard stuff for the end. So, okay. Yeah. Get to everything. And then we'll do Dillard. Cause I agree. Dillard is what you end on. So if you even want to do points and notes, I'll go through that before we hit Dillard. Yeah. That's it. So, I mean, I'm going through my notes now,

[01:21:42] like the reset of is, is a good, was good for my opinion on Herschel. We talked about that already. Yep. Um, we talked about the, how Renata was able to get everybody. Renata's leadership, man, like stepping up and giving that speech at the end, which is a speech. It's the speech you heard at the beginning of this episode. Cause the moment I heard it, I was like, Oh, that's the clip. And like, yes, saving 146 out of 148 people, because they saw the faults in,

[01:22:10] we can't be against each other if we're going to survive. And it's Renata's words that convinced everybody of that. And even seeing like Negan and Dillard kind of being like, yeah, like this is, you're, you're right. Like, this is what it is. Can I tell you a bit of interesting imagery I saw with her in that moment in the park when she's preaching to them, like live or die, man, live or die. Her staff on her back felt very Michonne.

[01:22:39] There was a very Michonne-ness to her with the way that her staff was. And like, if that's the type of character, like, yeah, hell yeah, man. I'm, I'm glad that we have one of those on this show. I love it. Um, really interesting. When you talk about, we need to come together or we die. Live together, die alone. Live together, die alone. It's another lost reference. Um,

[01:23:09] the representation of death is very prominent in this scene, but showing that it doesn't necessarily need to be a bad thing in what tool are they using to reap the fields? Ben, they're using a scythe. They're using a scythe and who usually wield. No, it was made out of crutches. Oh, even better. Okay. I like it. No, but that's not the point. Who usually wields a scythe? Well,

[01:23:39] that would be the grim reaper, my friend. That would be the grim reaper. It would. Who represents death. And is played by Norm Macdonald. Oh, that's very, very true. Um, or, or William Sadler, depending on what reference you're using. That's a fact. From Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey. I like it. Who has been on Wilhelm before. Um, and he was an amazing guest. Um, no,

[01:24:03] like we are seeing weapons of death being used to reap fields for survival and life. It's beautiful. Which granted scythes are usually used for that anyway, but let's read into this a little too deep, shall we? Why not? Because, because that's what we did for lost coverage all the time was we read too deep into that. And I like to do that. I'm so happy that this damn series is finally giving us enough depth to look into. It,

[01:24:33] it hasn't been this deep in a long ass time. I'm sure there are listeners listening right now that are rolling their eyes at like, you guys are going way too far with this. I'm okay. I don't think so. You know what? You guys are still listening to us after 70 plus minutes. So who's along for the ride now? Oh God, we just lost half our listeners. Um, but yeah, so like, I love the fact that the statues meaning the stat in, in the statue of Liberty.

[01:25:03] We talked about last week about how lighting up the statue of Liberty as a beacon of hope is what that statue was originally meant to be. And that's what they're using it for. And Renata mentions the, bring me, you're tired, you're hopeless. Like, like, yeah. Like that's what we said last week. Like, that's what that statue is meant to represent. Well, in the male leader in the beginning, when they came over was like, yeah, we, we knew that there could be a chance. This was a trap, but like, we were hoping that that statue of Liberty still stood for what it was supposed to always stand for. So, and I think,

[01:25:33] so I think at that point it was a callback, but yeah, to your point, like perfect, perfect call. It was delightful. Yeah. 100%. Um, did you happen to enjoy the reference to Rick Grimes in this episode? Oh my God. The three questions. I was so happy after I asked for it last week and he was like, I used to know this asshole. He would ask three questions. I'm not in the questioning mood. Nice. I used to know, I used to know this guy, but let's, let's just say he was an asshole.

[01:26:03] And I was like, Oh, like any mentions the three questions. I'm like, there's, there we go. I was so happy. Um, all right. How's the pocket watch still around after all these years? Good job, Maggie of all the moving around that that nomadic lady has done. She still has OG Herschel's pocket watch. Nicely done. I don't think you really lose something like that. I think you kind of store that. You store that away. That's not something you keep on your person. If Pulp Fiction taught us anything,

[01:26:31] the pocket watch never disappears. Yes. And that's something she's had stored away. And she ended up giving to Herschel, which was, I thought was a really nice nod. A hundred percent. Yes. To, to Scott Wilson and the original character of Herschel. I really liked the way that they honored Scott in this episode. In a lot of ways. That was, that was super, super cool. Super cool. Yeah. Yeah. Completely. Um, the outside of the, outside of the Dillard storyline,

[01:27:02] the only other note I have, cause I mentioned the setting us up for heartbreak already. The only other, the only other note I have is just a fun little thing. I loved, and this could kind of lead us into the Dillard conversation. Cause it is Dillard related, but it's not like major Dillard related. I loved the name of his drink. The Neil Armstrong. Oh my gosh. I literally, I had a sip of wine and I chortled so intently.

[01:27:31] I spit the wine out and I usually don't do that. But when he said whiskey, just the delivery of whiskey and tang. It's basically just whiskey and tang. That was so good because that's such a smart joke in this show from such a silly, dumb character, but it was perfect. That was one of my notes, the Neil Armstrong. So I'm happy that you brought that up. That's outstanding. It really does make me think. And because of everything that we've seen Jimmy Simpson in, in the past,

[01:27:56] these characters that he plays and the fact that he's going to be in always sunny again this season, which really excites me. Cannot wait. Um, it makes me think like how much input did he have on this character? Because that feels like something that wouldn't have come from the walking dead writers. It feels like something that would have come from Jimmy. I, unless he is maybe a bit, he's, he's punching up his spots. I could see that. And it's delightful. It's absolutely delightful. Oh my gosh. Um,

[01:28:26] another moment that I'm sure was scripted, but was played so realistically, I believed it. And also because I feel the same way, but when Maggie and Renata were talking about how terrible champagne is, welcome dead cast listeners out there. Podcasting of folks. If you actually like champagne, okay. And I mean, not champagne with orange juice, not champagne with like a nice little fruit. I mean, straight up champagne. You like champagne. Let me know.

[01:28:56] Those bubbles mean death. That is a horrible drink. I will stand on that hilltop until I die. There is a reason why on new year's Eve, when I am celebrating with my friends, I drink either sparkling rose, because it tastes a hell of a lot better. Sure does. Or just straight up sparkling apple cider, which is delicious. It sure is. It's much better than champagne. Yeah, it really is. And the fact when Matt,

[01:29:25] you got the chortle from the whole Neil Armstrong thing. When Maggie turns around and says, it tastes like cat piss. And I'm like, holy shit, it does. Like it's horrible. It always has. And it always will. And I understand if you have to drink it at a wedding or something like that, but it's God awful. And that's okay. I think to the defense, I really do think it depends on the champagne. There probably are really good champagnes out there, but most of it is horrible. Yeah.

[01:29:51] Maybe my American constitution doesn't allow me to appreciate champagne, but I'm not here for it. Give me a Pinot Grigio every day. The other thing I have, building off of last week's comments, this episode felt like a perfect combination of Jericho and the prison season of The Walking Dead. If you were to mirror those two ideas and bring those two ideas together, the idea of being in this large place that's supposed to feel secure, but now becomes this cage in which you're trapped with all these undead animals.

[01:30:22] I just, it's such a good telling of crafting up a community. And I say that a thousand times. I'll say it a thousand times more. Yeah. I'm to a point now where, like I said, with the villain being survival itself, I kind of of the, I'm kind of of the mind that I think I'm going to be actually disappointed if we get a villain. I mean, yes and no. I think, I think you can develop one naturally, but I don't want it to, but then again,

[01:30:51] there's only 10 episodes and we're three in already. So yeah, that's why I'm saying a season of Jericho where you get 20 episodes. And then for the last two, you're defending Stanley's farm. That's why God, now I feel like I want to rewatch Jericho. Um, no, I feel like with only, you know, five episodes left, I, I kind of don't want there to be a big bad. I, this is what I want for the rest of this season. I agree. Give me, give me resource shortages. Give me, um, survive basic survival. Absolutely. Yes.

[01:31:22] Let me see what happens with the hurricane. Give me a frost. Okay. Give me that stuff. Let's see what that does. If you want to, if you want to, if you want to drop hints and tease, because even going to another point from somebody's feedback of like, I, as strong as this season is, and as good as the ratings are for this season, this will not be the last season. We're getting a season four. We'd better. We there were with how good this is going.

[01:31:49] The fact that it is a hundred percent on rotten Toms. Um, yeah, we're going to, we're going to keep going. We'd better. We're going to get a season four. If you want to give us as wonder man. I, Oh God. I love if you, if by the end of the minutes, and you're not getting any more, but I know, um, if by the end of this season, you want to kind of drop seeds for a potential big bad for next season. Yes. I'm fine with that. Don't throw them. Don't force them in. Correct.

[01:32:19] What we're getting is fantastic. It is. It's, it's finally compelling again. It's fine. It's not paint by numbers. It's not, you know, BS of the week. It's legitimate storytelling. And I'm ready, Ben. Let's talk about the most fascinating piece of storytelling this week. And that is our boy. Talk about, you want to talk about compelling, man.

[01:32:44] So we knew Dillard as intriguing of a character as he was. We knew in our minds, there was more to Dillard than meets the eye. Absolutely. Yes. And Holy crap. We're finding out this one. So first things first, I loved the whole Negan kind of mentoring Dillard into the ways of zombie killing. And it made so much sense. Like, I need to know that when shit hits the fan,

[01:33:12] you have the strength and temerity to do what needs to be done. And I just, I thought that whole interaction, that whole scene was fascinating. And then watching it a second time, knowing what we know, I have to wonder, like, was that, was that lady in the alleyway, like a former Zed girlfriend? And he just couldn't bring him. I don't know. Maybe he could hear it. I don't know. But it's fascinating. Okay. So with that being said, we,

[01:33:41] cause I feel like we need to talk about the main point before we talk about everything else. Cause it does kind of come back to everything. Right. And by the end of this episode, we see the bar is full of actual people because Negan brought them in. They're all celebrating the fact that they're, they're in a good place now. He tells, and I will admit it's a little cringy for Negan to tell Dillard, take your pick of women. It is.

[01:34:11] That's not real good for our defense of Negan when it comes to a harem, but like he tells them like, you know, take your pick. And Dillard's like, I'm going to go upstairs. I'm going to change. Cause I smell like methane. I smell like kerosene or whatever it is. And he goes up and we find out that there is a Walker chained up in his room. And to him, he hears her. He does. He understands her. And it was shot brilliantly. The,

[01:34:40] the ADR was done phenomenally. Both the growling with the, the, um, the voice. She did phenomenal. His reaction to all of it, knowing that he probably couldn't hear necessarily. I mean, I'm sure that they were off camera, but like, it was so well executed. And it created so many questions. Can I rattle off some of the immediate questions that came to my head? Can I, can't before you die? Let me just ask my biggest question.

[01:35:08] It might be on your list of questions. Oh, I'm sure it's going to be. Hold my, because this was the biggest question I had by the end of this episode. It was like, I had a couple of questions. Is it wrong that this is going to be both of our biggest questions? Cause I know exactly what it's going to be. There was like, I was asking myself a couple of little things. And then one question came to my head and I basically screamed it in my head. Is he sleeping with a zombie? Has he hit that? Yes. Oh my God. And I, I, I,

[01:35:39] I, I, I, I hope. Yeah. The answer is no. I don't think the answer is yes. I hope the answer is no. I think the answer is yes. And there are so many different ways it could go from here. Is it just the mental? Okay. Another, is he really a cop? Or he's such an unreliable narrator at this point. But then again, has he lied? No,

[01:36:09] because he has said all these things these folks are saying. And he hears that. This is so. It's Wilson. Yes. I, yeah, it really is. I, is he, was he really an undercover cop? My thought? Yes. I, cause you, like you said, he has not lied about anything. Correct. If you go back and you look at these previews, even scenes where it was kind of humorous, where he says, this poor guy was a Jets fan. Like, yeah, like, yes,

[01:36:39] it was humorous, but I think like, no, like he legitimately heard that Walker say that to him. Yes, he did. Yes, he did. And so, but here's where I think, I don't think Dillard was wrong, or I don't think Dillard was lying. I think he was just wrong in that when he gives that whole speech last episode about being an undercover cop, and you kind of have to play this part. Because otherwise, it's going to drive you crazy.

[01:37:09] I think he did it for as long as he could, and eventually it still got to him. And, like, now he legitimately does have conversations with these walkers, because to him, they're talking to him. He's hearing them actually say these things. And, like, to Negan, he thinks it's still a coping mechanism, but I think it's gone beyond that now to Dillard.

[01:37:38] He is legitimately crazy. I think, I think he broke at some point. And we kind of alluded to it in episode one, like, huh, it's kind of interesting how he doesn't have any follow-up questions when this random skin sack of human proportions shows up in his bar, and he starts treating him as casually as he treats the walkers. That's, that's interesting. He doesn't have any follow-up questions, and maybe this helps explain why. Like, he's not, he's not quite present. And honestly,

[01:38:05] the way that he stabbed the walker in the methane bath was very aggressive. Very, very aggressive. I have it in my notes. He was stab happy. He was stab happy as a mother inside of that methane. And, like, that, again, fast, again, didn't, didn't kill any women. Like, two women he didn't kill, the one in his room, the one in the back alley, did kill two men from the methane tank. So, that's, I don't know. Maybe, I don't know.

[01:38:34] I don't know. But, I wonder, okay, is the female Zed going to be whispering anarchistic sweet nothings into Dillard's ear, or is Negan just going to find, or someone just going to find out that Dillard's talking to the walkers, and that's going to be the conflict. Like, how much, is this just a side quest, or is this a main storyline moving forward, do you think? Well, and,

[01:39:04] I don't know. See, well, and I don't know either. And this is where the conflict for me comes in too, is like, this is a huge reveal for the Dillard character, and that he is legitimately hearing these walkers talk to him. Yes. But what does that honestly mean? Does this make him a villain, or does this mean he's just somebody who needs help? And, I don't know. Like, I don't think we're going to know until we watch the next episode what this legitimately means. Because, I don't want, like,

[01:39:34] yes, it's crazy, and it drove us to ask questions like, is he sleeping with a walker? Right. But, but I don't want, I don't want this to mean that he's a bad person. I think he, I want this to mean that he just is somebody who's broken. Yes. I hope so too. And, and can be fixed? Yeah. Salvaged? Yeah. Yeah. Because, you see enough of a real person in there, and like, the question he posed earlier in the episode, which is lonely,

[01:40:03] are hanging out with the walkers, or hanging out with the video games, man? Like, it's both just a level of escapism with not real people there. Like, all right, fair enough. I can, I can understand that concept. It's, it's the being chained in the room. And I thought last week when he said I was putting them away in my room, I thought that was weird too. So there have been some things with Dillard that like, I've thought, well, that's weird, but because it's Jimmy Simpson, I'm like, all right, but that's Jimmy Simpson. So, you know. But I mean, like, even like, if you look at other actions of him,

[01:40:33] like he has stepped up to try and save people. He, when Negan didn't want to use the alcohol for the patients, he's the one that's like, they don't look good. Yeah. Like, yeah, let's go do it. So he is a legitimate, I think he is legitimately a good person. This is just a major flaw that he has. Yes. And it really does explain why he doesn't want to kill, or he's hesitant at least, to kill walkers.

[01:40:59] It's because he doesn't see them as dangerous as everybody else does. He knows they are because he knows enough to de-teeth them so that they can't bite and tear into you. He knows how to kind of take down their threat level because, and in order to do that, you have to know how dangerous they are. Yes. But he also doesn't see them dangerous enough to have to kill every one of them that he sees. Right. And I,

[01:41:27] so there is some legitimate good in Dillard. It's just a matter of how much, what does that mean now? How do the scales balance between still some good and still some crazy? Yeah. And I, I'm excited to see how the show tackles that moving forward. But, God, what a great episode of television. I mean, Dillard was already a complicated character with everything he was going through and his quirks that he had. Yes. But this just, man, this just turned Dillard's shit up to 11. It really did because now he can go any number of ways.

[01:41:57] He could be redeemed or he could slide. He could go villain or he could go innocent, you know, a sacrifice that the island demanded. But, I mean, it's, it's going to be even more complicated when Negan, we'll see, but here's the other question I have now too, is how do people realize that Dillard is this way? Because he's been this way since we've met him and nobody's picked up on it. He's been saying it the whole time. Correct. Yeah. And he's never shied away from the fact that he believes he understands these people. Yeah.

[01:42:27] So, he's never hidden any of this. Yeah. That's a great point. It's just, we haven't seen it this way. Yup. Until this. So, again, like he's, like you said, he hasn't lied. He hasn't. He hasn't hidden any of this. It's been out there the entire time. It's just a matter of your perspective and being able to see it. Yes. And. So, I don't know. It's a journey. And I'm so hyped to see where this is. Oh, I can't wait.

[01:42:56] We're 40% of the way through the season, roughly. Um, so we got plenty, but not enough. I'm feeling. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Um, but that was such a good way to end this conversation too, because that was such a huge reveal. It, it was this episode. And. It, it, it really was shocking. There isn't a lot in the walking dead that genuinely shocks me. That much anymore. That one got me like,

[01:43:26] damn it. They, they really, they really got me hook, line, sinker. I didn't, I felt safe in what I knew until they showed me, I knew nothing. It was awesome. Well, and I think that was, I think that's kind of the brilliance in the writing of Dillard's character too, is that it blew our minds as a big reveal because like I said, the writers have always had everything out there. They, they never,

[01:43:50] they never hinted that Dillard was hiding something because he never really was. The only thing they hid was the voices he heard. Yeah. And that was a brilliant, uh, yeah. But I mean, and, and going back to your point earlier too, about how, about the ADR of everything too, of how the, the actor who was in the Walker makeup was still just growling and everything like a normal Walker would do.

[01:44:18] But the ADR was talking over as if like, they weren't like, you could have gone real cheesy horror movie and had the Walker actually been talking to him. But it was a, such a point of brilliance to do it using ADR instead of an actual actor do it. A hundred percent. And,

[01:44:36] and the actress did a phenomenal job of being a Walker with realistic Walker tics that could also double for the inflection a body would go through when having this conversation. Like, just, just. Like, like reaching up and grabbing at him while the AD is, ADR is saying like, I think you should stay here tonight. And I'm like, this is fantastic. Absolutely. It's creepy as shit, but great,

[01:45:06] great storytelling, great camera work, great production, but so well done. So well done. Any final notes on this episode before we kind of move into wrapping things up? That is it for me. Great soundtrack this season so far. Keep it up. God damn it. That was the one note that I had. Man. That I was, that I was going to bring up. It's the first note out of everything. Mine too, because the opening song was so good. Yeah.

[01:45:33] The music choices of this season have been stellar. Yes, they have. Yes, they have. That's amazing. Yeah. That was the very first note I had was music choices. Outstanding. I love that so much. but yeah, that was, that's kind of all I had too for notes. Awesome. All right. Then with that being said, that's our show episode seven,

[01:46:03] 12 as always. Thank you to everybody for listening. Thank you. Your feedback for this, next episode, your feedback for this episode, Dead City season three, episode three, and then our breakdown of the Dead City season three, episode four, found slash lost. That's net fitting since we had a, I mean, lost references. I'm glad they're just putting the lost right in there instead of making us work for it. That's nice. Yeah, exactly. If you want to write in,

[01:46:31] write in or leave us a voice message about it, you can find all of our contact information at podcastica.com. And please, we're getting, we're starting to get more and more feedback as we go through, but with everything that happened, especially with dealer stuff, God, I wouldn't, when everybody thinks. Absolutely. Yes. A hundred percent. I want to hear what you guys are thinking, what, what your reactions are. This was such a good episode. So get us your feedback. Back. And again, while you're there, please check out our other podcasts,

[01:46:59] such as a preview of what to expect with our upcoming lanterns coverage, as well as our own content. For me, that's the quick creation show. We are a little cheeky little reverend and always unqualified. We don't know when we're going to be recording next because the Phillies tend to piss us off, but stay tuned and hit that like and subscribe button to make sure you're in the know. How about you, Ben? What you got going on? Hey man, you got the feel the dreams game coming up. So I'm sure you guys are going to have some stuff to talk about. Damn right. Um, I, of course I have Wilhelm,

[01:47:27] which everything can be found at welcome to Wilhelm.com. I'm already working on some cool celebrity interviews, uh, that'll be coming up this season. A couple I've already got in the pipeline right now that I can tell you about, um, or, uh, I'm going to be welcoming Mark Summers from Double Dare onto the podcast. Yeah, that's a cool one. That's a good one, brother. Teddy Sears from The Flash and Brilliant Minds, uh, as well as American Horror Story is going to be joining me back on the show.

[01:47:55] I say back because he was on a couple of years ago and I'm excited to have him back on. You'll get to hear audio of my panels with Ross Mark Kwan that is coming up in color. It's Comic Con. Uh, but I've got some other stuff, uh, in the works too that are currently being negotiated, uh, like Adam Savage from Mythbusters and Chris Hardwick from Talking Dead. So, stay tuned. Yeah, stay tuned for all that. Welcome to Willhelm. Willhelm.com. Um,

[01:48:22] and I want to give a shout out because we haven't really been doing this and I know Jason does it. He does it so much better because it's his baby, but I do want to give a shout out to all the Patreon people out there. Yes. Who sign up for Patreon and, uh, support Podcastica and all the podcasts that way. If you want to do that, all the details can be found in the show notes of the podcast or, uh, Patreon.com slash Jason Cabassi is where you can find all of that stuff. Support him so he can support the things you love. I'm a Patreon supporter. Alex,

[01:48:52] I think you're a Patreon supporter as well. So, even though we're hosts on Podcastica, we still support it by, by signing up for the Patreon. I guess. Um, all right. That's our show. Thanks for listening. Don't get bit, Dominic Muzio. What if doctors could detect Alzheimer's before symptoms appear or treat cancer with unprecedented precision? On the new season of Tomorrow's Cure,

[01:49:21] the chart topping and 2025 Ambie Award finalist podcast from Mayo Clinic, we explore how breakthroughs like these are already reshaping the future of healthcare. I'm Lindsay Seaver, the new host of Tomorrow's Cure. And this season, I'm joined by leading physicians, researchers, and Mayo Clinic experts exploring everything from AI powered diagnostics to precision cancer treatments. Follow Tomorrow's Cure wherever you get your podcasts. I see you.

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