727: Crystal Lake S1E7&8 "Friday..." & "The Final Chapter"

[00:00:00] Hmm? Ah! Hmm... Podcastica! Where'd he go? He's gone! You can't hurt him! None of you can! Not anymore! Not as strong as anybody gave him credit for.

[00:00:32] You better just stay away. What? Stay away from the lake. These woods are ours now. You're crazy.

[00:01:26] Hey everybody, welcome to the podcast. I'm Jason. And I'm Jamie. And I'm Nathan. And this is The Walking Dead 'Cast Episode 727. In this episode we're covering Crystal Lake Season 1, Episodes 7 & 8, Friday and the Final Chapter. I feel like we've really kind of done a marathon with this. We got them all in pretty quick. You know, this only came out like two and a half weeks ago and we've been through eight episodes.

[00:01:56] Well, we will have by the end of this. That was good because I was not happy. Neither were you two when we found out they were going to drop all eight at once. I know. I like having some time in between and I'm glad we did this because I would have like when it dropped, I probably would have binged most of it in a weekend. I wouldn't have sat with the episodes like even doing two at a time still is like sitting with them is nice.

[00:02:19] Yeah, I'm glad we didn't do one a week, but we still had more time than a lot of people because we had a few days in between each pair to think about it. So let's get into this pair. First is season one, episode seven, Friday. Who wants to read the plot summary? I'll do it. Cool. So season one, episode seven is a flashback.

[00:02:44] Years earlier, Pamela, then a singer, begins bleeding during a television performance and is told she has lost her pregnancy. Her boyfriend Elias takes her to his employer bellflowers medical facility in Houston, where Dr. Valentine says the baby can be saved through a clinical trial. Elias proposes and the couple moves into company housing.

[00:03:06] Trish, another trial participant, delivers a stillborn baby and then kills herself in front of Pamela, sending her into early labor. Jason is born with deformities and Elias earns a promotion by agreeing to manage Pamela for the company. When infant Jason drowns in the bath while Pamela sleeps, he revives and bellflower places Pamela on mood stabilizers.

[00:03:29] As Jason grows older and sicker, Pamela learns from his drawings that he is being experimented upon. Bellflower takes custody of Jason after he begins bleeding at his birthday party, and Elias threatens to divorce her. During a company event where Elias celebrates the success of Project Argonaut, an effort to create humans who can survive nuclear fallout,

[00:03:54] Pamela steals Dr. Landau's keys, finds a room full of dead babies and children who are having similar experiments performed on them, finds and kills Dr. Valentine, who is holding Jason, and escapes with her son with Nora's help. All right. So we've been saying that you're going to reserve your judgment until we find out what's going on. Now we know. So what did you think?

[00:04:21] I'm more okay with this than I thought I would be. I have comments for the next episode. So did you like it then? I did like it. I thought, you know, Jason being born after, you know, right after his mom witnesses someone kill themselves was pretty. I thought that was okay. I thought that was fitting. It kind of induced labor. That was such a shock. Yeah.

[00:04:50] She's like, oh, I'm so, I like, I'm such a jerk. I'm a bad person. I'm going to kill myself right here. That's insane. I want to know what, because they, you know, it's not just experimental stuff they were giving the babies. They were putting the women on experimental mood stabilizers too. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:05:10] And you wonder, I wondered if that's supposed to be what contributed to Pamela Voorhees psychosis, you know, or whatever you want to say about her, that if she hadn't had that experimental drug, maybe she wouldn't have been so murderous. I think so. It seems like that's what they were getting at. Yeah, I agree. So it was sort of an origin for both of them, not just Jason.

[00:05:41] So what about you, Nathan? What'd you think of it? I liked finally seeing the Argonaut project. The, you know, some of the kids on display felt very almost kind of alien resurrection with all the experiments. I kind of feel like you could watch this episode first on a rewatch because there's no continuation from the past episodes. Mm-hmm. Self-contained kind of. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:11] And there were even parts of this episode that kind of felt like Fallout to me. Absolutely. Very much felt like Fallout. Almost. It could have just been an episode of Fallout almost. Yeah. Certainly the timeline has a lot to do with that. Because it's all about that 50s paranoia over nuclear war and then turning it into something sci-fi by doing crazy experiments to try to deal with the upcoming, assumed upcoming war.

[00:06:42] Yeah. And a perfect image juxtaposed with a mutant image goes to Fallout too. The juxtaposed with a mutant image goes to the dexposition. Yeah. Because this episode really had, it's crazy to me how different, how much things changed from the 50s to the 70s. Because growing up in the 70s and really the 80s, the 50s just seemed like another world away to me.

[00:07:07] But now we're in 2026 and 20 years ago was 2006. That doesn't seem like the 50s seemed to me when I was growing up in the 80s, you know? It's, if you get what I'm saying, it just, I think part of it is there was color TV that came in and so it just feels like another era.

[00:07:30] But also just the really distinctive leave it to beaver hairstyles and, you know, and then the 70s was just so different. So it was kind of fun to see Pamela back in that era, late 50s, I guess. Those housewives dresses are fun. I always like that style. Yeah. So I enjoyed it as an episode. A lot of it, the aesthetic was really cool. And seeing her as a singer was fun and just going through the story.

[00:08:00] I thought it was a good episode of TV. I don't like it for Jason's story. And, you know, we've kind of known what it was going to be. We pretty much predicted it. We were, I was saying super soldier, but it's surviving a nuclear fallout, but still kind of the same, similar idea. And, um, I don't really love that. I think I was thinking it takes some of the, it demystifies Jason. Right. And then I was like, well, they kind of demystified him already.

[00:08:30] He's been in 12 movies or whatever it is. And some, a lot of them are corny, but to take something that is like, I thought of him more as being supernaturally undead somehow. And then it's like, no, it's because of a science experiment. He's not undead. He's just very resilient. That takes away some of the magic for me. So it really hinges on that too. I mean, Jason's been through iterations.

[00:08:59] Like there was a while where he was basically human. Like everything was kind of explainable. So having it as a super healing power works with like the, the, the early stuff a bit. And then later he becomes supernatural. So this still works with that. I feel like.

[00:09:18] It works technically, but for me, it doesn't work on a feeling level because when I'm watching a movie to be scared, it's much scarier to think of some ghost that rose from the dead type of thing versus some poor kid that was subjected to radiation treatments and experiments when he was little. It just turns it from a scary thing to more of a tragic tale. That's not quite as interesting to me.

[00:09:47] It is more like fallout. So that's my, I mean, it's subjective, right? I'm not saying everyone should feel the way I feel, but that was my reaction to it, to that. But just if I take that part out, like how do I feel it adds or not to the whole Jason Friday, the 13th thing. It just does an episode of TV as of itself. I thought it was really well done for the most part. And it was almost kind of fun in a twisted way. So yeah, I liked that part of it. I liked they did something different.

[00:10:18] It puts out an episode that's not quite like any of the other ones and kind of goes out on a limb. That was cool. The whole flashback idea. Yeah. And like starting with Pam, the singer, having a miscarriage and out of wedlock miscarriage. Like, Ooh. Yeah. That's interesting.

[00:10:36] Cause there's this whole throughout this series, I've talked about how I think they're trying to put some focus on feminism or, you know, like, I think it was in the next episode. And Rita's doing a quiz on women's lib. And, you know, I've just talked about how they, I think with Annie, who I felt like it was really cringy watching her in Friday the 13th.

[00:11:05] To get what would be considered today assaulted or harassed at least. And so then the stand in for her a couple episodes ago, didn't accept that behavior from men. And here, I didn't actually think about it cause I, I was sort of wondering, yeah, why is it out of wedlock? But I wonder if it has something to do with that too.

[00:11:28] Just sort of showing that times are starting to change and people are not always acting in traditional ways or ways that society says they have to act things like that, you know? And it was showing like, she was a bit of a rebel too. I think like she was trying to be a nightclub singer. I mean, people were even in the forties and the thirties, people were getting knocked up outside of wedlock. Like that's not, it just shows that she wasn't a super good girl. She was in nightclub. She was a singer.

[00:11:57] She left her, you know, devout family to go have this other life. Like, yeah. I mean, that all fits with what I'm saying. Cause she, she even said her parents wouldn't have approved of it if they were still around. All right. Let's get into our points. Nathan, would you like to go first? Yeah, we can start just from the top. Well, first in this episode, did you notice there's an, there was no opening credits? Yeah. I think it wouldn't have fit with the aesthetic and the feel. Yeah.

[00:12:28] When the singing started and Pam's hair was different, did you think it could have been a dream or did you just think we're jumping right away? Into a flashback? Flashback because of that cliffhanger. I figured it was exactly what it was. She's telling her story to Lee. Agreed. We see her in a relationship with this person, Elias, who last week we didn't know his name.

[00:12:54] And like you were saying, it's a sign of the times that even though they weren't married, they kind of had to pretend like they were. Cause she was kind of beholden to his wishes for what to do about the baby. They, uh, they start in New York and he, Elias is a normal bellflower employee at the start selling things like household products. Mm-hmm.

[00:13:18] And, um, I was trying to think if, if his name had been mentioned before, not in this show, but in other media and in the ninth movie, the final Friday, Elias is mentioned by name, but he doesn't appear. It's just kind of some background context. And he's mentioning comic book material as well. Mm-hmm. I think there might be a comic where Pam actually kills him. I think I read that.

[00:13:47] So, you know, different out of, out of canon stories, I guess. Yeah. It's nice that they're pulling from some deeper stuff or side stories to kind of fill in names and things like that. But, uh, we meet Dr. Valentine and he's, you know, very cold and clinical. He's got a line like, well, if you lose your baby, we'll just clean you out and you'll be good to go.

[00:14:15] I wouldn't call him cold and clinical though, because I, he tried to be charming with his sort of folksy colloquialisms. But to me it came off, sometimes it came off like comforting, but mostly kind of condescending. Condescending for sure. Yeah. You can tell it's a patriarchal structure. Mm-hmm. It feels like the women are misled or talked into taking treatments. That's.

[00:14:45] Mm-hmm. Lied to, dismissed. They're even given what food to eat. Like who the hell knows what's in this food too? Yeah. That was a quick thing that you didn't catch. But like, she pulls that frozen thing out and it says first trimester. Mm-hmm. So like. Yeah. From the freezer. Yeah. And it sounded like Trish, her neighbor who was going through the same program, didn't have any choice.

[00:15:09] Like it looked like, cause Elias was kind of a nice guy at first, you know, it was interesting to see him change. And I did wonder at first, oh, was he just pretending to be nice, but trying to get her into this program the whole time? But I don't think so. Cause later that when he got the promotion, they said he came in as a salesman or whatever. And then he quickly rose through the ranks. So I feel like he was genuine at first, but then changed.

[00:15:33] And so at first they talked it over and he really wanted her to go into it, but it felt like he was still trying to convince her, not just telling her she had to. But when Trish came over, she said she didn't have a choice. Her husband, Dave, just made her do it. Well, I don't think Pam knew she was pregnant until she was miscarrying. That's the way I took it. Yeah. Is that she didn't realize she was pregnant until she was losing the baby.

[00:16:03] I didn't catch that. So I don't think they knew they were pregnant. And then I think Elias was just trying to do the best he could for her. Yeah. Like, I really do think like, Hey, we've got, you know, if you want to keep this, you want to, you know, we've got, I've heard this. I shouldn't have known about it, but I do. Cause nobody in a company can keep their mouth shut. You know, I heard about this. I'll see if we can get it done. Like, I really think he was trying to help her, but then he just got sucked into it. Yeah.

[00:16:31] I mean, first of all, I was suspecting, Oh, is he just pretending? Oh, I just so happened to have heard about this thing because we only knew him since it's a flashback as this. Dickish kind of a dangerous guy. Right. So I wondered if it was all a ruse, but once we saw the whole thing, then I agree with you. I think at first he was a nice guy and he got changed by the job or whatever. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:16:57] I think he, you know, for lack of a better term, drank the Kool-Aid with everybody else in the company who was doing it. And he started to move up in the ranks. So that became more important for him. But you're right. I think it is more about the Kool-Aid. He just seemed really into the mission. Yeah. Cause I mean, even towards the end, he was like, you know, Jason had a purpose. I'm giving him a purpose. Like, no, he's your flipping kid.

[00:17:23] That's why I think, I mean, I'm very much skipping ahead here, but Jason gouged his eyes out and crushed his skull and only choked Pam for a minute. Cause the difference is that he, he said he was doing it for his son's own good and making him stronger and everything. But really he was just using him and putting him at risk unnecessarily. Whereas Pam, even though she wasn't the perfect mother by any means, she was always, she always met well and loved him clearly.

[00:17:52] Yeah. Yeah. I also like that we have Dr. Landau just in the background kind of. Drinking. Drinking. Just to show us at least one person in the room is kind of feeling the effects of all the negative things going on in their work. You can tell he's going to crack later on in the storyline. Yeah, that's true. He didn't look comfortable with it. Yeah. Like, is he drinking because of this?

[00:18:21] Like, was he always having a drinking problem or was it just because of this? Like how guilty he feels about all of it? That's my guess. Yeah. Yeah. That's how I think they played it. Yeah. Anything else on that? Just on Bellflower itself. Did you, I don't know if I was expecting it to be a company town. I thought maybe it would be more like just a big institution or a business. So to see that it's this sprawling place where people are living next to neighbors.

[00:18:51] I mean, I guess it makes sense, but I always just thought it would be like a big asylum or something. Yeah. It reminds me of, uh, severance a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. But I think it also gives it that fifties feel somehow where being a company man seemed like more of a thing. There was more loyalty among the employees and there was pensions and lifers and things like that. People didn't skip around so much.

[00:19:19] Like the fifties was kind of the start of those like cookie cutter neighborhoods too. So having a company sponsor those little neighborhoods made kind of make sense. Mm-hmm and it felt like severance in that if you watch severance, you see a lot of the workers live in the company sponsored housing and it feels like a controlling mechanism, which it did here too. Yeah.

[00:19:45] Cause they hold it over your head, you know, and we don't see that with the lives, but they probably did, you know, we're being good to you. We're giving you this house. Like. And they can watch over them and everything. All right. Jamie. Um, the whole, you know, being as the only mom in this group, uh, the whole thing with coming home with a newborn, especially a special needs newborn and then being entirely alone. That hit really hard.

[00:20:14] Like that. I couldn't imagine that. And like not excusing it, but I totally understand why she fell asleep. She probably has not slept more than five minutes in several days. She went from the hospital. Like, I mean, you know, Jason, you've had kids. Like when you have that first baby and you're in the hospital, the nurses are there, they're telling you to help, you know, they're helping you. And then you come home and you've just got this little helpless potato that now all of a sudden it's on you to keep alive.

[00:20:42] But there were two of you, maybe even had some family come and help too. Imagine just having this little tiny thing, even though, you know, Jason's a little older because they've been at the hospital for a while longer, but still not that old. Um, and you know, he can't eat normally. He has to be drop fed. He's colicky or, you know, whatever it is that he's got. So she has not slept in days and she is completely and utterly alone. She's got no one and nothing. Nobody's helping her.

[00:21:11] Like, of course she's going to go crazy. And she was anxious about having to do it herself in the first place. Yeah. Yeah. And she hasn't slept. He finally is quiet for more than two minutes and. And she falls asleep. Like, I understand how it happened. It's awful. Yeah. It happens too. And that's why I don't want to be too cavalier about it.

[00:21:36] Like I, I, it was just such a heart sinking moment, you know, like, oh, and, uh, and you're, you're absolutely right about everything that led up to it. And also I was like, get one of those little tubs with water. I don't think they had the whole tub. I don't think they had those back then. Really? I don't know. Well, they did. I think sink baths were the thing back then. Yeah.

[00:22:02] But I mean, it was thematically interesting to have, oh, he already drowned once before and survived it. You know, Crystal Lake wasn't the first time that. I thought that was kind of a very morbid, but cool thing to put in there. Yeah. It was understandable. It fit the story. Like it wasn't out of nowhere that he drowned for like it. Yeah, I agree. I thought it was like a really interesting way to do it.

[00:22:26] Um, but then by the end when I'm skipping ahead again, but when, uh, Eli's tracks are down in Crystal Lake and they're at the police station arguing and he said something like, um, you know, you, you, you let our son. Call her mom of the year. Yeah. Mom of the year. You let her son drown again. And I was like, okay, I don't like him very much right now, but I can understand that part.

[00:22:53] If I was him, I'd be, uh, and my wife let my son or my son who was under my wife's care drowned twice. I would be upset by that. Now the first one, he left her the hell alone. He left her with nothing, no help, no nothing. He is just as compliant in that. Yeah. I mean, I, I agree with you, but still it's not logical, but if, if that happened twice, I, I, it would just be really hard. You know, it'd be hard to deal with.

[00:23:23] That's for sure. And if I did that, I would expect somebody to feel the same way about me. I would just want to kill myself. Probably. I had, I had wondered, but aside from being exhausted, if maybe a side effect from some of the treatments, for making her docile or. Yeah. Right. Maybe. No. She was getting the treatment, the injections for the baby. I don't know that she was taking the mood stabilizers until after that happened.

[00:23:55] That's true. Yeah. It's hard. It's a little confusing what happened to women. Like, I don't really understand whether Jason coming out with a enlarged head was because of the treatments or if that would have happened anyway. We're made to believe that it was part of the treatments. Cause when we, you know, Trish's baby was deformed as well. Yeah. She said, you know, I couldn't have loved her. Yeah. And then. And so are the ones in the lab too. So yeah. Yeah.

[00:24:24] They pan around the lab and it's all deformed. So I feel like the treatments are the deformed, whether he would have made it at all. Yeah. Maybe not. It's probably not. Cause I mean, based on what they're on the stuff they told us she had, she most likely had what's called placenta previa where the placenta detaches and moms and babies to this day still die from that. Like there's not really, there's nothing to fix it even right now other than just stay

[00:24:51] the heck in bed, like complete and utter bed rest and hope the baby doesn't come, you know, hope the baby stays in long enough to be viable. So chances are he wasn't going to make it without this treatment. We can debate whether that's a good thing or not if he would have made it, but I know. It's like, would you kill baby Hitler kind of thing? Yeah. If Trish who had been fighting them, like she'd been fighting her husband speaking up

[00:25:21] and that kind of stuff, they were giving her the meds. They were giving her the mood stabilization beforehand. I don't know that they were giving. And then she went crazy. So the implication is those things make you crazy. Yeah. Cause Pam was a willing participant in this program. Yeah. To have her baby. I don't know that they started giving her those. I mean, maybe they did, but it didn't seem like they did until that happened. Until she started losing her.

[00:25:48] And also they've, you know, when she wakes up in bed and the doctor's there and her husband's there, and then they have this nurse there now, which why couldn't they send the nurse before? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Like give this woman some help. That should have happened. Seriously. Even just for a few hours, like everybody knows you need some kind of help with a brand new baby. Like it's just. Yeah. Not everybody gets it, but you need it. I mean, yeah.

[00:26:15] I remember just both Jenny and I taking turns with both of our kids when they would wake up several times in the middle of the night and both being exhausted. You know, even though there were two of us to do it. Yeah. It's. It's awful. I would not have another baby. You couldn't pay me enough money to have another baby. Jenny and I are both far enough away now because our youngest is nine where we're both like, oh, babies are so cute.

[00:26:45] Other people's babies. We're too old. No, I mean, I miss having a baby around the house. I do. No. I don't miss diapers. I don't miss bottles. I don't miss waking up. I mean, my son still wakes me up, but that's besides the point. It's not every two hours. So at least. I want to. We kind of touched on a little bit, but just things in the episode about treatment of women like second class citizens.

[00:27:12] The doctor is examining her as smoking a cigarette. This felt very mad men in some ways, you know? I noted that too. He was such a dick. Yeah. He's sorry, doll, but some of you gals, you know, just aren't built for it. Just kind of cavalier.

[00:27:32] Then the guy, Dr. Valentine, one of the things that he said that I thought was sort of charming when he was explaining the sonogram and said, maybe we'll find that chewing gum you swallowed in third grade. That's kind of fun. You know, and that felt like a madman thing too. But also he has this condescending, like talking to a child kind of a thing.

[00:27:55] And then just bringing in women to this treatment who are having trouble with their pregnancies. So they're kind of desperate. At least that's what I presume, where I presume they got people. Or maybe it was some of them were just wives of people who worked at Bellflower. We don't really know, I guess. But the doctor said to her, we've had incredible success treating conditions just like hers. And I think that's a lie.

[00:28:24] They haven't had successes. It doesn't seem like. So it just really felt like. And then later on when Pamela wants to know, they don't even tell her what it is, you know, and it's her fucking child. And there were things like that for real in earlier times. I read that there actually were some real life experiments during the Cold War that were similar.

[00:28:51] In the 1940s, researchers at Vanderbilt University gave radioactive iron to around 800 pregnant women to study how it passed to their developing babies. And they weren't adequately informed that they were ingesting radioactive substances. And in the 40s and 50s, researchers at a Massachusetts institution called the Fernald State School fed radioactive substances to children with intellectual disabilities without fully informing their families.

[00:29:19] This is horrible, by the way. It's only going to be a few more seconds. They actually recruited boys into something called the Science Club, offering them special privileges like outings and trips to baseball games while researchers secretly administered radioactive substances in their food. I can't believe shit like that happened. And so later on, you know, laws came into place to try to prevent anything like this.

[00:29:47] You can still find stories in other countries of stuff like this happening, though. It's not just here. It's insane. Unfortunately. But, I mean, the way they talked down to her, like when she woke up after, like in the hospital after having the baby, and then again when she woke up in the bedroom after Jason drowned but didn't, it was very Rosemary's Baby. I never saw that. Oh, classic horror movie. That's crazy.

[00:30:17] But very much, oh, you know, we're taking control of this child. You don't have to worry about it. We've got, like it felt very Rosemary's Baby, which it kind of was. Like, you know, she doesn't have any control. She doesn't know what's going on with her kid. And blaming her, too. Like, you caused this. You're the problem. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:30:39] I guess that's one reason why I like the episode because it made me mad and I like it when shows make me feel something. And I was like, fuck all these people, you know. Yes. Yes. I mean, and they're selling like, you know, when we get ahead a little bit.

[00:31:28] It looks even close to that. Mm-hmm. And we had our first. Okay. Did it? Who thought she gets into that? The experiment room, for lack of a better term. When she walks up to the kid in the sack, did we think that was the beginning of sackhead Jason? That's funny. That's where he got the idea. Yeah. All right. Let's move on to another subject, Nathan.

[00:31:54] I feel like Trish is kind of the ghost of Christmas future for Pam. Yeah. She's, you know, because she's the new neighbor she confides in who has already had experience with the treatments. And she's a little further along in her pregnancy. So she kind of shows her the ropes, for lack of a better word, or at least tells her what to expect.

[00:32:17] And you get the sense that her husband and doctor are gaslighting her and thinking she should, yeah, to feel okay. When she has worries, they say she's just, you know, she's projecting. Or delusional. Yeah. Or hysterical. That was a favorite term back then for women. And then when her baby is stillborn, she blames herself for having those worries and bad thoughts.

[00:32:49] And I can only imagine this is just like as Pam is seeing this, this really crystallizes the future she doesn't want to have. She doesn't want to. It's like a foreboding look at her future. And when Trish, do you think when Trish kills herself, it feels like maybe it's also a side effect of whatever happened to the baby? Or is it grief or both?

[00:33:16] I think it's the mood stabilizers mixed with the gaslighting, mixed with the grief, just all of it. Yeah. And postpartum depression is a thing too. Yeah. I mean. Because she said something about how she saw the baby's face and didn't think she would have been able to love him if it was her. Her. She had a girl. Okay. And yeah, that felt like a postpartum depression kind of a thing.

[00:33:43] And she was feeling self-critical because of that, along with everything else. But I think they didn't necessarily explicitly say this, but I think those mood experimental mood stabilizers induce psychotically violent behavior. And Trish directed that against herself, but Pam directed it against Dr. Valentine's face with the drill.

[00:34:13] Oh my God. That was so awesome. There was some blood there. Yeah. Or, and it also could be the lack of the pills too, like coming down from like if they cut them off real fast. That's what he said, yeah. Because they didn't need you to be, they didn't need her to be compliant anymore. The baby's now out. And so if they took her off the pills real quick, it could have been a problem. Yeah. He said some, I think it was Valentine who said something about that.

[00:34:41] If you go off these pills could cause issues or something like that. And when Pam's baby is born, we kind of see her fears of kind of being treated like Trish are being followed through with. Like she was totally out for the procedure. Didn't even get to hold him when he was born. That wasn't terribly uncommon back then. If you had a C-section, you were just out. It felt that's, yeah, you're right.

[00:35:11] It also feels like, it just feels like they're withholding as well. Yeah. I mean, she, there was a possibility that she could have had a normal birth and they didn't let her, which is very probable. I like that we get the flash to the little calendar thing that says Friday the 13th. Yeah. I liked that too. Yeah. Well, as soon as I saw that, if you're paying attention, you're like, oh, this is Jason's birthday. Yeah. It's going to happen. Yep.

[00:35:41] I was like, oh, she's having a baby today. Yeah, exactly. Well, and then like, I thought it was a cool shot when she goes to the nursery to see him and he's screaming and we can, we're looking for it. We know what to look for, what's wrong with him, but we don't officially see what's wrong with him. But he's just laying in this, you know, bassinet screaming and she's staring at him.

[00:36:05] And then behind her is more perfect babies, like pictures of perfect babies behind her that she's not going to get. Like I thought that was kind of a cool shot. You mentioned that Jason was colicky and it was interesting how at times it sounded inhuman. Like that. That kid did not stop crying. Anything else, Nathan? Not points.

[00:36:33] Just that as far as Jason being born, Elias seems disinterested in being a father. It's more like he has a golden goose. It's more like this is his prized. This boy is the thing that's getting him all these promotions and everything. He doesn't, I don't think seem very interested in the, the nurturing or the raising. Yeah. You're right.

[00:37:02] You know, and he hires all these, all this extra help. Yeah. Very true. The closest he ever seemed to seem like that was when he met Jason in a bigger body at the end. And was like, Oh, we're going to do great things together. But even then he was still thinking about the experimentation and everything.

[00:37:25] It was just the only difference was he showed him some, uh, direct, like he, that was the only time you ever saw him touch him. I think I'm not saying I'm not speaking up for him at all. He, you're right. He didn't, he was all about just getting promoted and, and drinking the Kool-Aid and everything. Yeah. I mean, he even made Jason late for his fourth birthday party because he had to go get treatments. Oh my God. It was another cute little Jason too. No.

[00:37:53] When he came out of the, the bomb shelter with the Geiger counter and all the other kids were screaming. It felt so bad. That's a great scene though. I've never seen anything like that before. I'm radioactive mom. And then a clump of his hair comes out. It's very sad. And all the kids and the kids screaming, he's a bomb. He's going to blow up. Oh boy. It was good. It was really effective. It was really well done.

[00:38:22] Like I thought the birthday party scene was really good. Like the whole, from start to finish, it told a really good story. Poor little kid. Yeah. At the birthday party, they get in a fight. Right. And this is when Elias starts to really change overtly. She says, she's just like, you're, what you guys are doing is, is hurting him.

[00:38:50] And, or no, first she's like, he's sick. He's sick. He needs whatever you guys are doing. It's not good. Oh, this is just a reaction, a reaction to the seizure medication. She's like, you're lying to me. And he goes, you seem a little agitated, darling. Do you need me to go and get your pills? Or maybe you need a few more days back at the clinic, get some rest. It's like a threat. And he's telling her to shut up and she doesn't really count and just stop causing trouble. And that's really when it was clear to her that he's no longer even an ally.

[00:39:19] He's something that she has to overcome. And, uh, that was infuriating to watch. Something tells me, by the way, he said that, that like over the last four years, he's put her away a few times. Maybe I'd go back to the clinic and get a rest. And, and then, and she sees his drawings.

[00:39:41] I forget that might've been a little bit later, but scary men in lab suits and the mean doctor grabbing him as he cries and him like strapped to a gurney with things attached to him and everything. And that's what Pam knows. Oh, they're experimenting on him. And I couldn't help but think, didn't anybody see him drawing this stuff? Cause they probably shouldn't have left it out in the open for his mother. You know, it was a little silly, but whatever.

[00:40:08] I took a note that Pam wanting a second opinion outside of the company about Jason's condition kind of feels like the inverse of Elias at the start of the episode where he wanted a second opinion outside of regular doctors. Yeah. Yeah. And she was like, and then they went into that world and she's like, I want back out of this world. Yeah. Okay. What's next, Jamie?

[00:40:36] Uh, the announcement and us all discovering the experiment room together. So we've got this like special fancy party where bellflower is making the announcement about the Argonaut project and how close they are to having a radiation proof human, which they are not close.

[00:41:03] Who can mimic a cockroaches cellular matrix or something. Yeah. I saw something where somebody said like that. They put cockroach DNA into Jason, but like somebody somewhere online was complaining about that, but I don't, that's not what I took from it. It's not exactly what he said. Yeah. Yeah. They were just making a parallel that, you know, we are creating a human who can also do this. But they were going to use Jason's DNA to try to replicate it in other people. Yeah. Cause Jason seemed to be one of the most successful of the experiments.

[00:41:32] I, from the way they put it, the Elias, when he said a subject J or something, there was only one person that was successful and that was Jason. And that's what I got out of it. Yeah. I mean, that experiment room was full of not, not as well. We have in Philly, we have something called the Mooder Museum, which is a medical curiosities and oddities museum.

[00:42:00] And there is a wall of dead babies, like all kinds of reasons that babies can die medically, you know, medical reasons of it. And that was what I thought of, like when she's walking through there, I'm like, oh my God, she's in the Mooder Museum. But it's there. Some of them are still alive. Oh my God. Yeah. They're like, oh man, like how there's so many, like how many women are they doing this to? Yeah.

[00:42:27] And then, well, then at one point Elias said that they had, it sounded like given injections to embryos in the womb of a hundred more subjects. And then he said, none of them fared as well as our subject J, but they did lead to us learning more. And when he said they didn't fare as well, it made me think, are they dead or are they just, are these the ones that you see in the jars?

[00:42:56] You know, they can't really function and they're suffering. You don't, you don't know what he means by that, but it's not good. Yeah. I think it's a little bit of everything. I think some of them didn't make it. Some of them felt like some of them, they were trying to grow in test tubes. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe. I don't know. There seemed to be a lot going on in there. Just so many babies. I mean, it was ridiculous. Really? You wouldn't have babies in jars like that. I don't think. Well, like I said, there's a museum in Philly.

[00:43:27] It does happen. So when he's telling his story, by the way, here's a little nitpick, but this is all supposed to be Pam telling this story to Lee. But when he's giving his speech, she had taken Landau's key and left, right? Snuck off. So she didn't hear anything that he said when he's laying out what the experiment is.

[00:43:52] And so not only does that not make sense for her to be telling Lee when she didn't hear it, but also I wonder if she ever even learned what the experiment was. You know, if she did know, cause some things that he said were like that. It was that Jason is resilient to radioactive bombardment, that trauma makes him stronger and could spur accelerated physical growth, which explains why he's in this adult body.

[00:44:20] Now that he's engineered for survival and all this stuff like that. So it explains why he can survive everything that we've seen him survive in the movies and everything like that. But Pam doesn't know that. So if she did know it, it would make more sense why she has had this feeling through this whole series that Jason is still around after seemingly drowning in the lake. Then again, he already did survive drowning in a bathtub. So maybe that's why she thought he would still be around.

[00:44:49] But then also why after hearing Ralph say that whatever is in the woods leaves man sized footprint, she immediately said she thought it was Jason. Like if she knew that trauma would make, might make Jason grow bigger than it would make more sense why she just jumped to that. So they added that line in there, but he didn't get bigger after coming out of the tub drown. Like he didn't magically become a one-year-old. Like that's the thing I don't like about.

[00:45:18] Like they threw that line in. And also you wonder why he's now he's clearly mentally impaired. He doesn't speak and he goes around killing people. Right. And after he, uh, what happened in the tub, he seemed fairly normal. Like we saw him later and he just seemed like a normal little kid.

[00:45:36] But it's the idea seems to be that what happened to the lakes was so traumatic that it spurred this growth and maybe, um, damaged his brain or something to turn him into. It's a barely mentally functional or whatever Jason is. Yeah. I feel like I get why they threw that. Inconsistent. Yeah. I get why they threw that line in there, but that really bothered me. I'm like, that doesn't make any sense. Why didn't he grow then?

[00:46:05] He's been experimented on, which means that's fricking traumatic. How is he not constantly growing at an exponential rate at what they're doing? Like he should be. Yeah. Like a giant by now. Yeah. Like if you're going to throw that line in there to explain how he becomes an adult, then you've. It's sloppy. Yeah. That part I didn't like at all.

[00:46:27] I think the reason why any of that is in there is they decided they wanted to tell Pamela's backstory, but they wanted to compress the timeline. So it takes place only the year after he drowned to make it feel more immediate. But then you don't get what happened in the movies where he drowned in the fifties, but she does her killings in the seventies. And so that makes sense that he would be bigger. So, um, I mean, they could only have little Jason.

[00:46:57] So they had to have some way to make him suddenly grow bigger. And that's where the, why they came up with that thing. In the first movie, he's a kid when he comes flying out of lake, assuming that's not a dream, even though I think now they're making it canon that it was a dream. But he comes out of that lake as a kid. He is a kid during the first movie. He is still like the eternal 10 year old or whatever. Hmm.

[00:47:20] Um, but the second movie is like, takes place like the next year, right? Or something. It got released the next year. I think it takes place many years later. I think it takes place like 10 years later. I don't know. Cause the first movie, I think. Okay. So the. Let's see. Yeah. Let's see. I'm not sure. Actually. First movie came out in 80. Second movie came out in 81, but I think there's a, there's a five year time jump. Yeah.

[00:47:50] And if you also factor in that Jason in the, in the lake is just a dream and he actually died all those years ago, then he would be at least a young adult probably by the time part two comes around. Yeah. That's my point. Yeah. So I, I actually, you know, there were things about this episode I really liked a lot and some things I didn't like very much at all. And the whole growing bigger because of this experiment thing, it just seems so silly. It's camp though.

[00:48:19] So I guess you could excuse that. Even though the framing device for this episode is Pam telling her story to Lee. We also know that Lee has all these Dr. Landau files. So I wonder if the story we see is like an amalgamation of the two and, you know, maybe there's some files that we just haven't seen that make up some of the lore. Okay.

[00:48:50] That works. Yeah. Yeah. We can see some of that in future seasons too, if they do more. But like, that's to explain why we got that little bit of, you know, the stupid trauma makes him grow. Like then why hasn't he, why isn't he 20 now? Like that. Yeah. That really bothered me. Like just say he can regenerate and we'll call it a day.

[00:49:10] Like, yeah, I mean, I do think it's cool or I do understand them wanting to have an adult Jason in this series because Friday the 13th is all about Jason Voorhees. It's, you know, so there's a part of me that's like, yeah, I want to see adult Jason, but, uh, I just think the way they did, it's kind of cheesy, but what are you going to do?

[00:49:37] Like, I mean, we, I said this before, this is kind of like your, you know, fear of the walking dead. All right. We're going to tell you the story of what happened first. And we're just going to time jump and not tell you that story. Like this is supposed to be the story of Pam. It's not supposed to be the story of Pam with a little bit of Jason. Like when they killed Jason fast, I was like, oh. So they did tell the story of Pam though. They did, but they tried to cheat it and do both. Yeah. Season two could have just been Jason. Adult Jason. I would have been okay with that. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:50:05] Like they could have done a little time jump at the very end and shown him or something, you know, because another thing now I'm sort of skipping to the next episode, but since we're talking about it, um, Pam knows that Jason survived and it felt like at the end of the finale, we're heading into some version of like the second half of the first Friday, the 13th movie.

[00:50:33] You see Steve Christie, the son of the, well, the owner of the camp there talking to his friends about Jason Voorhees and the, his ghost and everything. And then you hear the key. Yes. So anyway, I don't know, but, um, in Friday the 13th, would it work watching that movie? If he thought, Oh, Pamela Voorhees actually knows that her son survived to some degree.

[00:51:01] And yet she's still mad enough to kill all these counselors because they let him drown. Cause that's what we're, we've got right now. We've got a Pamela who knows that her son in some form is, is alive. And who didn't kill the first two counselors herself. Yeah. Oh, at least didn't start the killing. She finished. Well, like you said, like, since we didn't actually see who did it, then you could make that fit the story we didn't see in the movie. Right.

[00:51:31] But when we do see Pamela Voorhees in the movie and she's kill, trying to kill Alice, I wonder if it would fit just thinking, Oh yeah. She already knows that her son's running around out in the woods and then the woods are there. So they're going to be killers together. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, we have time for her to get more crazy or something maybe. But do you see what I'm saying? Like now that's, that's another big change.

[00:51:56] Like we just presumed watching Friday the 13th that she didn't know that her a version of her son was still alive. And that's why she was so mad and killing everybody. Which honestly makes more sense. Or even if she thought maybe he was by that point in time, he's probably not like, yeah, no, I'm completely with you on this. Yeah. So they'll have to address that and work with that version of it if they do another season where she knows. But my sense by the end of it, well, I really am skipping ahead. I don't want to go, we'll go into that one.

[00:52:25] We'll go to the next episode. But do we have any more on this episode or should we move on to the next one? I just want to make sure we talked about Nora a little bit. Yeah. So she has a child who seems to have a developmental disability. So she understands the taking care of a kid who needs a little extra help, who needs a lot of extra help, not a little, a lot of extra help. And seems to really care for Pam and what she's going through.

[00:52:51] And then she gives Pam the keys and says, you know, I swear I didn't know all of what was going on. And like, I feel like she's still trying to make up for it. Yeah. Cause this is the woman who's been helping her in the present day that she called to find out about the two guys that came after her and everything. And Nora's probably still trapped with the company. Like there didn't seem to be a Mr. Nora, but she has to take care of her daughter.

[00:53:19] You know, like she said, like, I have to take care of my daughter until the day I die. Not the day her daughter dies, the day she dies. Like, that's, that's a tough way to be. Yeah. Do we know what Nora's daughter's condition is? Cause she says she's different, but not physically. I just assumed it was some sort of mental disability. Developmental, yeah. Yeah.

[00:53:42] I had wondered if maybe she took part in an earlier stage or some type of prototype of the trials that we see now. That didn't come with physical deformities at that point yet. Well, she said her daughter's 26. Yeah. That's a long time. That would have been a long, I mean, it's possible. I don't think it's been going on that long. But there would have been a lot more. They would have either killed the program or. Or been more successful by then. Yeah.

[00:54:10] More than just Jason going for it. So I don't think, I mean, it could have been a different experiment by the company. Yeah. Like this company's probably been up to a lot of no good for a long time. Just once again, how cool it was to see the doctor die in a violent, gory death. So over the top. One thing. Yeah. With this episode, it was so pristine.

[00:54:30] Most of the time with that fifties aesthetic buttoned up clean that the two bloody scenes with first Trish killing herself. And then her drilling this doctor's face really stood out, really popped on screen. Yeah. Oh, and then just her telling Jason, daddy, daddy was hurting you, sweetheart. Yeah. As they're driving away. Yeah.

[00:54:58] So he's been, I mean, it's the truth, but he knows, you know, I'm sure it's not the first time she said that to him or something. Yeah. Like he knows that daddy's bad. Yeah. Which comes into play the next episode. I have a couple notes. What do you got? Pam reads a baby book by Dr. Spock. Yep. I didn't catch the title. Also, Miss Parsons.

[00:55:27] This is the live in nurse that Elias hires to seems to be her role is to take away some of Pam's responsibilities, which makes Pam feel even worse. It's it's another little piece of the plot of stripping away her agency. And I just like that this character was played by Kate Micucci, who I've seen in other things. Somebody said I saw somewhere. Somebody said she was Velma once and there were two Velmas in this episode.

[00:55:56] I think that's right. Yeah. I like Kate Micucci, too. I think we are good for the next episode. All right. Jamie, you want to read the plot summary? Pamela tells Lee and Brianna about Bellflower and Lee takes her to the police station, promising to find her a lawyer. Elias arrives in town and learns of Jason's death and Pamela's address from Enos.

[00:56:24] At the station, Lee admits he once took dirty money on a case and refuses Pamela's plea to run away with her. Elias and his men arrive. Pamela pretends to leave with him before stabbing him. Dorf arrives and strikes one of the men with a throwing star, setting off a gunfight in which Lee is shot and Elias escapes into the woods with Pam. There they encounter Jason, now a fully grown man wearing a sack over his head, who crushes Elias's skull.

[00:56:54] Jason begins to strangle Pam, but her pleas of love stir his memories of their life together and he lets her go. Ralph shoots at Jason, who vanishes into the trees, and a laughing Pam tells Ralph that the woods now belong to her and Jason. Later, Steve Christie tells a group gathered around the campfire the legend of Jason's ghost as someone watches from the woods. Yeah, and that someone could be, I think, either Jason or Pam, right? Or both of them sitting together holding hands for all we know.

[00:57:24] Mother-daughter time. What do you guys think of this one? I like that. This show is able to weave serious moments and also campy moments. Like how in the last episode we have, you know, all this traumatic stuff at the Bellflower Clinic. And in this episode, we can have something fun like Dorf throwing a shuriken at somebody. Dude, that was awesome.

[00:57:53] I think overall this episode, I think it felt like it put a button on all the existing storylines for the most part. Really tied things up. I wondered if we might see Grace one more time, but we didn't. Right. Yeah. She's in the hospital, right? Yeah. Kind of left her story thread hanging there. I don't really have any lingering questions. Oh, I do. Like what? I have a big one.

[00:58:24] Why is Jason killing people? He's been this sweet boy this whole time, and now he's just a mindless killer? Like... Yeah. We don't know that. Why is he killing people? I think that is something that if the series goes forward, it should show us that progression. And is it just that he's insane, or does he have a reason for doing that? I mean, he might just feel like everyone let him down and he's mad about it.

[00:58:54] That would be my best guess. I don't know. There may be some unspoken, like maybe the Argonaut side effects slow roll over time, or like it's something that gets worse as you age. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. I mean, I still have the problem with the magically aging, but they tried to explain that though not well.

[00:59:16] I mean, I think with Trish and Pamela, when they got violence, it was based on some real emotion that they were having, but they just had a super extreme reaction to it. Right. And so if Jason is somehow also subject to that, then I could see him being like, you know, everyone just teased me and bullied me. And then, you know, I drowned and no one saved me. Screw everybody.

[00:59:46] Something like that. But that's just sort of me speculating. Yeah. But I mean, like this Jason, this kid that we met, I don't think, yeah. Like I think let's say he didn't drown or they caught him, you know, they got him before he totally drowned and, you know, his mom, what were you thinking or anything like that? Like he would have taken floor stones. He's like, no, no, no, this was all on me. I wanted to get the ball, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like I don't see this Jason blaming anyone else for his.

[01:00:15] He didn't have any outbursts or angry outbursts or anything like that. Yeah. They spent so much time making him a good, sweet, mostly normal kid. Like, you know, he had toys. He, he had a girly magazine. He had like, he was just a sweet. It was the same trauma that made him grow also made him go out of his mind, but still because like he can't talk. Right.

[01:00:42] And he doesn't seem to think straight, but you still want to have some sort of an emotional reason of why he's murderous. Yeah. Cause I mean, it's just like they spent so much time showing us what a good and sweet kid he was to all of a sudden. Now this magically grown 20 year old is a killing machine who can't talk like an angry killing machine who won't even accept, you know, his mom's cookies.

[01:01:11] He's part of the tragedy is the person he could have been if not for all the experiments. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, his story was always a tragedy from the beginning, but this series makes it feel more tragic, I think, because you got to meet him when he was a sweet little boy and get to know him a little bit and have more sympathy. Yeah. I hope.

[01:01:41] Like if they tell me, you know, there's a demon in the woods and that inhabited his body. I'm down for that. Like I'm okay with that, but just tell me. Yeah. Since they didn't say that and the nature of this experiment seems to be to exacerbate people's existing emotions, then my best guess is that he kind of went insane, but the emotion that was there was just feeling like, no, I can't trust anyone.

[01:02:11] I don't like anyone because they don't like me or something like that. But you're right. He wasn't really showing it. He was more feeling, because he didn't want to go to camp. Remember, he's like, I don't like it there. They're not nice to me. It was more just like not wanting to deal with it versus wanting to like get revenge on people or something. Yeah. Like leave me alone. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:02:35] I just, I would like a better explanation for why when he came out of the lake, he didn't find his mom. Cause he did go home at one point. Like we see him break into that box and take his little gun out. So like, he's got some semblance of who he was. Um, and he brought the gun back to that little, and you know, he went to that house. He defended, um, Grace's honor, you know, when they made fun of Grace and like broke the back window of that car and threw the shoe through it.

[01:03:03] Like there was some semblance of him knowing what's going on. Like he's not completely mindless. He's not just a mindless killing machine. And then, but then he is. I mean, he's not, well, he can't talk. He's lumbering around. He's not going to talk to his mother. He's killing people. Like there's something wrong, you know, and it all sort of is of a piece. It's not like, Oh, everything's fine except for the killing part. Yeah.

[01:03:30] I want to, I just want to know why, like I want more, there better be a season two and they better tell me why. That's what I want to know. I want to talk about Pamela and Lee a little bit. So Lee listens to her whole story and feels for her and decides that the solution is to get a lawyer and bring it all out into the light and, um, fight all of it openly and, um, clear her of everything.

[01:03:59] And she says, I'm never going to be clean. And I'm thinking she's right because at this point, all Lee knows is that she killed the two goons that tried to kidnap her, but he doesn't know that she killed Grace's mother or a bunch of teenagers at the camp. And, um, you know, I, I, I feel like there's no excusing that I know Nathan would think differently, but, uh, but, uh, you'd think Lee would be like, by the way, do you happen to know

[01:04:29] anything about all these dead teenagers? Speaking of murdering people. Yeah. And then it was kind of funny at the station, at the police station, he's on the phone calling the lawyer and she sits off to the side, uh, held there against her will, looking intently at this letter opener, you know, I was afraid for Lee's life for a second there. Back at the end of episode six, did you think that Lee's confrontation would like, would

[01:04:56] be more combative than it ended up being like, it seemed pretty empathetic? He's that's been consistent with his behavior with her. Yeah. For the most part. So it doesn't surprise me. But if I was, I feel like this series isn't, you know, it's not, it's comic bookie. Like Jamie talking about how, you know, he just went into her house without a warrant,

[01:05:26] you know, or it's just so many little things like that, that are feel like they're more out of a comic book than real life. If it was real life, then I would think he'd be like, oh, I wonder if she had anything to do with all these other murders. I better think about that. But it's not. Or even still, I mean, I don't know. My friend tells me, hey, you know, these really bad people were coming after me and I had to kill them before they, you know, kidnapped me. Okay, fine.

[01:05:57] But how did you know to hide the bodies? Like there's a whole bunch of stuff that where I'm, I'm asking way, way more questions with this. I was thinking about that. And I, and I think Pam would say, I couldn't let it be known that, um, I mean, I'm on the run from these guys. I'm just trying to hide it so that I can live my life or something like that, you know, but it was pretty creative the way she did it with the bears and everything. Yeah, it was brilliant.

[01:06:27] But I don't know. I feel like, especially if I was a cop, like I'd have so many more questions. I just wouldn't have been like, oh man, your story is so sad. I'm going to defend you. Like that felt kind of dopey. Yeah. It felt just a little out of character, out of place, all of that. But he's like, I think his sisters thinks the same thing. Like you're, you, you defend her all the time. Although she seemed pretty on her side in this episode too. He has Pam tinted glasses. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:06:58] That's why I liked it when he pushed back a little bit last time, but now he's back to totally being her hero. Yeah. I feel like I would just have more, like he seemed more upset with Dorf with his throwing stars than Pam admitting that she has now killed three people. But now, you know, um, he told his story about how I liked it that it wasn't a total misunderstanding.

[01:07:25] He actually did back in Newark during a drug bust took all the cops took money illegally from the drug bust. I guess he took some too, because if he hadn't, then it would have been trouble with the other cops. That's what I got out of it. And he wasn't going to spend the money, but then his wife got sick. So he spent it on her care and the others had laundered their money, but he hadn't. So it got traced back to him and he took the fall.

[01:07:51] And then I, because he didn't rat the others out, I guess they pulled some strings and let him resign and he could go work in crystal Lake. So he wasn't completely innocent, but he was kind of between a rock and a hard place. And that was, that was a good development. And then I was thinking, is Pam's story comparable to his? And I think it is if we believe that these experimental psychotropic drugs, they had her on turned her psychotic.

[01:08:20] Then yes, it's kind of similar. Like she got pulled into a situation that she really had no control over and got the shit under the stick. You know, even the killing all the hippies, it's not really her fault because it's because she was part of this experiment. Because Jason told her to do it. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. I think they are, they're tying Pam and Lee's stories together thematically in that they both

[01:08:50] know what it's like to have to save someone they care about in a compromising situation. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I believe Lee's story, like what they were hinting at the whole time seemed like something like this. Like I thought his story was a good story. I feel like he didn't quite kill three people. Which makes it a little different. Same degree. Yeah. But he wasn't on the experimental psychotropic drugs either. True.

[01:09:19] And I mean, the cops are still, and the cops are still mad at him because when he went back, they were like, this is it. And we're not helping you again. And I'm like, he helped you guys. Yeah. What's the problem there? He took the fall for you and didn't rat you out. You a-hole. Yeah. Like that felt a little weird, but. Maybe he's not telling the whole story. Maybe. Maybe he did kill three people. Well, I did rat out this one guy. Yeah. And I killed their wives, but otherwise.

[01:09:49] All right. Where are we? I think it's Nathan's turn. I want to talk about the diner. Cool. Our good friend Harmony is our scapegoat after all. With tales of the runaway hippie in the newspaper, blaming her for the deaths at camp. She should get a card in the mail that says, congratulations, you've survived. Mrs. Voorhees and Jason. She's gone.

[01:10:19] We wish her all the best. She's probably changed forever. If that's any consolation, she's not going to go around being like, I love you anymore. When we see her next, she'll be totally different, grumpy. If we see her again, she might just be gone forever. She'll be conservative. We'll see what season two brings.

[01:10:45] Elias makes his way into town at the diner, pretending to be an old friend. And Rita and the waitress. I don't know if her name is Trudy or if the name of the cafe is just Trudy's. Yeah, I'm not sure. I think she's Trudy, but I don't know. Yeah, I think so. And Rita and Trudy kind of pick up the bad vibes that Elias is putting down. Even though Rita's also attracted to him. Yeah.

[01:11:13] I mean, he looks like he has money. Rita, of course, is going to be attracted. And Enos, totally oblivious to what's going on in the room, just gives up Pam's address. That was so funny. Oh my God. It really... Here's the thing, though. Here's the thing. Yeah. If it was... What is it? 1972?

[01:11:37] There's a pretty good chance you can just pick up the yellow pages or the white pages and look up anyone's address by their last name, alphabetical order. Unless they requested not to be listed, which I guess maybe Pam would have requested not to, but he didn't even try. But I mean, if this company has covered up cop killings before, if you've got a name and a town, he was going to find her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, my point is that they made it like a big deal. Oh, he just doxxed her.

[01:12:06] But really, if it was in the 70s, you just look in the white pages. Yeah, no, I'm completely with you. But I think the point is just to show that the themes are enforcing the lack of care or caution that these men have for the women in their lives, which is a big part of the Bellflower story as well. That Enos seems to be so oblivious. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:12:31] So Elias, of course, goes to Pam's house and raids it with people looking for Jason. No, that's a really good thought. I took it as, you know, the two women know to be cautious around men and the man does not even think, thinks he's being helpful and being like, hey, here's your information. Yeah, absolutely. But I like your idea too. Well, didn't you say the same thing? Pretty much.

[01:13:00] Well, more, he linked it to Bellflower and like the not caring for women more than just being oblivious. Oh, yeah, I see. Yeah. And right after this, Rita goes to confide in Dorf.

[01:13:18] And we've mentioned in the past, he's been directionless in terms of deciding what kind of man he wants to be torn between Lee and the kind of person his dad is. But making a good impression on Dorf. But making a good impression on Rita seems to lead him down the path towards being a good cop. Yeah, that the whole thing with Dorf where she goes over.

[01:13:47] I guess you're right. I guess you're right. Maybe that's why he was kinder to Lee and said, or Lee said, you're a good man. And he goes, I learned. I got it from you. I learned everything from you or something like that. It felt like that YouTube series where the guy gets pitch pitch meetings where they're like, oh, why does she respect him now? Oh, because it's the end of the series. You know, like she didn't respect him.

[01:14:15] And then all of a sudden she came in and chose to tell Dorf, there's this dangerous guy. Can you check on him? She would have went to Lee, I think. But it felt like you needed a nice moment between the two of them because it's the end of the series. I wish there was some inciting incident that got us thinking that she actually did respect him. I feel like the comment where she had, oh, I bought you those underwear. I feel like that was trying to set up like that. She does care for him. Like she buys him underwear.

[01:14:41] They're like, they have more of a relationship than she cares to admit. I thought that was before they broke it off. I mean, underwear is not normal. Because she left his house. She was like, I can't do this. I'm trying to force it, but it's not working. And the implication was that he's just not good enough for her, you know? Yeah, but I think she has some kind of caring for him. Yeah, well, I mean, I guess like, I don't know.

[01:15:08] I just didn't buy that they had a whole point of showing a scene of her deciding, I'm trying to respect this guy, but I just don't. So I'm sorry, honey, I'm leaving or you need to leave. And then the end, they have a scene where it's like, no, I do respect you enough to you're the one that I come to when there's danger. No, Lee's the one that you would come to. He's the respectable guy. And you know that he has cares for Pam, too. So there's an added reason why.

[01:15:36] So it just felt a little bit forced to me. But it was nice. I mean, I'm glad that I do like that, you know, Dorf. I've sort of stood up for him a little bit throughout the whole series. And then last episode or maybe it was the one before that, he got really insufferable. And I was like, oh, man, I'm done with you. You should be fired.

[01:16:00] So I'm glad that he sort of came back around and respected Lee again and that it seems like he's trying to overcome his father's negative influence, you know? Yeah. And I think when he heard, you know, he heard Lee's a dirty cop, he got the story not from Lee about, you know, he didn't he probably didn't hear. Oh, I had to take the fall for the other guys. He just heard he was a dirty cop and took money. Yeah. Which combined with his father just being a racist and being in his ear all the time about it was influencing him. Yeah.

[01:16:29] And I think he was acting out because I think he did kind of see look up to Lee. And then when he heard he was a dirty cop like that shattered the image and he was just crashing out over it. It's wild to think, you know, Dwarf is this cop in the first movie with like two minutes of screen time just looking for Ralph.

[01:16:52] And we get this opportunity for this show to peel the layers back and kind of see this nuanced guy over a couple episodes. It's just cool. And the fact that he hates Ralph now, eventually they get along again. He was sort of a douchey guy in the movie too, right? What the kids sort of laughing at him, I forget, on his motorcycle. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Should we move on? Jamie? Let's talk about the shootout. Like I love because we're talking about Dwarf.

[01:17:21] Like he comes in with the throwing star. Like that was awesome. I loved that. That was fantastic. I never thought when we saw him throwing stars in his basement that it was going to be useful and then he was actually going to be good at it. Like that was cool. I thought it was kind of silly, but then when it went right in the guy's eyeball, I thought, okay, that's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. Did the comedic turn take the wind out of any of the tense scene that was coming before it?

[01:17:51] I mean, the whole scene with all the goons coming into the police station, it felt like such a low key shootout. You know, they're laying on the floor, rolling around and crawling that I felt like it needed something like that. Yeah. It felt 80s movie. I thought it fit. I was, I was okay with it the way it was. I don't have a ton of complaints about it. Me too.

[01:18:21] I like the jokey part of it. I felt, it felt in world for lack of a better term. All right. What else? I guess we just have the end, right? Well, still on that scene, I would say, I'm just like when Elias comes to the station, Lee knows what he's there for. And Elias feels like Lee knows more than he lets on. I just appreciate there's a lot of like underneath the surface. There's kind of this mental struggle going on between them.

[01:18:50] You keep waiting for a pin to drop and seeing who's going to slip up first and admit that they know something that they're not letting on. Just that whole introduction of that scene is, I think, really cool. And then Pam comes up like she's trying to defuse everything. Yeah. I'll go, I'll go home with you. And then, that's so funny. Yeah. Wouldn't she have a letter opener or something? Yeah, I think so.

[01:19:19] Well, Elias trying to be like, my family was abandoned. And, you know, she took my son from me. You can't imagine how that hurt. Yeah. Like trying to be this victim, you know, just being this victim in the beginning. Oh, yeah. Or all like. He said she was violent and a danger to everyone around her until they got her on the proper medications. And it's the opposite of that. Yeah. I think she was violent because of the medication.

[01:19:49] I agree. So then he takes off with her in the car. And then Jason steps out on the road. The car swerves. She gets out and runs into the woods. They all go looking for her. And then we get a fun couple of kills. Wrecking shot. Well, I mean, first off, we see sackhead Jason in the road. Like a good shot of him. Yeah, that was cool. I was pretty excited to see that. Yeah, I was pretty excited to see that.

[01:20:18] And then he hit that. I guess he hit him in the head. And his head flipped back like it was on a hinge. Yeah, that was so cool. And then he went to kill another guy. They didn't show it. But you know he's dead. They did show him running, though. So I guess he's still pretty young before he just walks. Oh, yeah. Running Jason instead of walking Jason. Or he teleports. You're right. Well, no, we did see him.

[01:20:48] Because like I said, I was like, Jason runs? Question mark. Oh, he's young. I was like, ah, youth. Then Elias finds Pam in Jason's little moonshine cabin, right? Yeah. Yeah. And they're arguing about. Well, this is the part I talked about before where they were arguing about whether the program was actually good. You robbed him of his potential and then took him to this little town where mother of the year you are. You let him drown. Dude.

[01:21:16] When he said, again, I wanted to punch him in the face. And then Jason shows up and he takes off his mask. That was a pretty good scene. But the whole time I was like, you're about to die. Yeah. And then when he put his hand, Jason put his hands on his face, I thought, you're going to lose your eyeballs. I totally saw it coming. But then what was really gruesome about that was he pressed so hard that his skull cracked. You know, it was a great effect. It was awesome.

[01:21:45] That was so cool. Oh, that might have gotten me more than anything else in the whole series when he threw him down. And you see his carcass there. Squeeze his head like a grapefruit. Yeah. That was so cool. Cracked. And then Pam, he starts to go away and she's like, no, no, wait. I'm so sorry for not being there for you. And hallucinated little Jason and wanted a hug.

[01:22:12] And I think I was afraid for her for a moment, irrationally, too. Yeah. You know. We know she's not going to die, but you can't help but be afraid for people in these shows sometimes. Well, I mean, for a minute, maybe they were retconning all of it. But yeah, they could. Yeah. I was a little worried about her. But she did, like, before that, very much like Ginny from part two. No, Jason, mommy is talking to you. Look at me.

[01:22:41] Like, that was straight out of part two. Mm. So she's not, she's still his mom. She wasn't, like, when he was strangling her, she wasn't scared. Like, she was just. She's like, I love you. Or, like, you know what? If this is how it is, this is how it is. Like, but I'm not, I'm not going to be scared of my son. I'm not going to attack my son. I'm not, like, she's just very calm in that moment. Like.

[01:23:10] And then Ralph shoots him. And then he disappears. He does teleport. Teleported away. And she starts laughing maniacally. You can't hurt him. None of you can. Jason is strong. My son is stronger than anyone I ever gave him credit for. You better just stay away. Stay away from the lake and the camp. The woods are ours now. So, it seems like she's really flipped out now. And she's planning on roaming the woods. Yeah.

[01:23:39] And killing anyone who tries to open a camp, maybe. I like that Ralph says, gets a chance to call someone else crazy. He's like, you're the crazy one. Yeah, these guys are nuts. Yeah, I mean, it's going to be interesting to see what they do with season two. Assuming they do make a season two. Because if she's this crazy. Like, when people saw her in part one, they're like, oh, it's just Pam. I mean, they didn't say Pam. But, like, nobody was scared of her.

[01:24:10] Like, the people who knew who Pam was were like, oh, it's Pam. Like, I'm not worried about you. Yeah. I mean, I feel like more and more it's not fitting. Not quite fitting with the movies. Yeah. The only thing could be is it's only Ralph who saw her do this. And Ralph is crazy. So, maybe nobody, you know, she gets it together and nobody believes him. Or he doesn't believe himself. Ralph.

[01:24:35] You would think to tell another season's worth of stories, you can't just have her be the crazy woman that everyone's afraid of, you know? Yeah. If they're going to try to weave these characters' lives together and stuff like that, then it's probably going to be like what you said. Like, she'll get her shit together and Ralph might come in and say, she's crazy. And they'll be like, oh, right, Ralph, whatever. You're crazy. I mean, we still have to deal with, there was a body in Ralph's shed. Right. And Grace.

[01:25:03] Like, there's no way that kid doesn't spill some kind of beans. Unless she believes that she was under the influence. They could totally, yeah, just say she doesn't know what was real or not. Yeah. And doesn't know what to think of it. After, go ahead. I was going to say, I did like the scene where she's hallucinating with Jason or Jason's scene, like whichever way you want to look at it. But he grabs his machete. He's like, these woods are mine.

[01:25:31] I was like, that holds true for the rest of the movies. After watching the show, apart from the timeline shift, how seamless do you think it would be to watch the first movie after this? I think it would be a huge scene. Not seamless. Yeah.

[01:25:55] Because the thing I was talking about before where Pamela knows that Jason's alive, then it doesn't quite make, I don't think it quite makes sense with the Pamela that we see in Friday the 13th. Although she does talk to him. Plus, we saw, yeah, I mean, I guess. But she talks to a small child. Yeah. Yeah, but she knows that he's still mentally a small child, maybe.

[01:26:25] True. That could, okay, I'll give you that. Yeah, but I mean, there's the whole time difference. We just ignore that, that Claudette and Barry were in the 50s. And? It just doesn't line up. I think this is more of a, well, as Jamie has said many times, there's continuity stuff throughout the whole series, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, stuff changes, stuff gets.

[01:26:52] There's times where he's scared of water, there's times where water regenerates him, there's... If I was gonna, so I hadn't seen any of these movies in years, and some of them never. I'm kind of, I was gonna ask which one should I watch? I'm kind of curious about like, three, four, five in there. I don't think I ever saw the one where he first gets his hockey mask. Should I watch that one? Three, yes. Bill, watch that next. Yeah, three, I think three is decent.

[01:27:22] I mean, keep in mind it was 3D. So there's some weird scenes that only makes, like, like, why is that stick coming at me? Yeah, like there's a lot of scenes that are made for 3D and you just have to allow for that. It's like, why is this yo-yo flinging at the screen? Yeah. That's funny. There's a lot of, so there's a lot of those weird scenes you just have to remember this was filmed for 3D. If you can find, like, I have a 3D version and I have like Jason... The glasses. Masked glasses, so. Yeah. I can't see those because I have a lazy eye.

[01:27:52] I was going to say, if you want to fly across the country, we can watch it, but I guess that won't work. Of course, there is a, you can just watch it in 2D. It's just, you can tell the things that they want to be 3D. Sure. All right. Anything else? Or should we go to notes? I mean, do we want, does anybody have anything else to say about the campfire story? And I love a campfire story. Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah. Yeah. The campfire story. I mean, we touched on it before.

[01:28:22] I love that they put in it, they ended it with a campfire story. Like, that felt very Friday the 13th. It was good because he's talking about the legend of Jason and somebody says what we're thinking, hey, this is real. Like, this happened to our friends, which does make it a lot creepier. And you can understand why some of the people were like, this is fucked up. I'm leaving, you know? Yeah. So I like that. Proud of them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:28:47] And then it was kind of fun to cut it off right when you hear something cracking over off to the side. That was a good ending. Intentionally ambiguous. Well, yeah. It could be Pam or Jason. Mm-hmm. Or it could be a deer or something. Probably not, though.

[01:29:07] So if we accept that Pam, at least, you know, continuity aside with the timeline, if she goes forward to have the same personality as she would in the first movie. You know, there's a scene in the film where she first meets Alice and she's like, oh, hi, I'm a friend of the Christie's. Used to work at the camp. Would you think she's being sincere if you saw that scene now?

[01:29:36] Or would you think she's playing her the whole time? Uh, if I'd seen it for the first time. Like if you saw it after watching this show. But I hadn't seen the movie before, so I didn't know what was going to happen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I probably would wonder. I wouldn't know for sure. Which would make it interesting what ended up happening, you know?

[01:30:05] Like you thought, oh, maybe she went back to, because we've seen her do that in this series where she killed all those hippies and then she turned back to being kind of normal. But so to see that, you'd think, okay, maybe she went back to being normal again and then she does what she does. It would be kind of thrilling, actually. We might see something like that next season. Yeah. Yeah. I really hope we get a season two. Like overall, I like this. Yes, there's some complaints, but there's always complaints with this series.

[01:30:33] Like I'm not mad about it. I'm glad I watched it. I enjoyed it. Yeah, it was an enjoyable watch. I agree. Me too. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You have notes. Okay, what do you got? I got a couple too. On Lee's office walls, he has an award for marksmanship, which may be a little foreshadowing in the shootout that's going to happen later in the episode.

[01:31:02] I recently watched The Town That Dreaded Sundown, which is a movie that came out a few years before Friday the 13th, and the killer in that movie looks exactly like Jason with a bag over his head. So I just thought that was interesting that that movie was a clear inspiration for Sackhead Jason. And just overall notes about the show itself.

[01:31:28] We pointed out in our chat that Mark Nelson, who played Ned in the original Friday the 13th, had a cameo in episode six. He played Brianna's boss, who escorts a couple bellflower goons around the newspaper office or journalist's office. I bet you there's a lot more of that kind of stuff. Yeah. We missed. Yeah, it'd be nice to go.

[01:31:56] Like, find an article or something that says all the cameos. Yeah, right. I saw Adrienne King's name, who was Alice in the first one. Yes. I saw her name pop up once or twice, but I looked for her. I didn't see her. I think she was going to be in the Brian Fuller version. Yeah, she was definitely going to be in that one, because when they announced that one, I saw her at a con, and we talked about it a bit.

[01:32:20] But the fact that they kept her name in this one, I don't know if that was just part of the contracting or anything. Or if she had a cameo. Yeah. I totally missed her, which is possible. I never saw my license plate number that they put in the credits. Right. That's true. What else, Nathan? Let me see.

[01:32:44] I also saw that, I think it was Brad Caleb Kane said that if they were to do a season two, they might focus more on the town, since it's, and expand from Pam's story, since it's Crystal Lake. Maybe they could have a Twin Peaks-esque kind of relationship with the town where everybody's more prominent in a second season. That could be interesting.

[01:33:12] Oh, also, totally unrelated, I just heard this, that Brad Caleb Kane is the voice of Aladdin when he sings in the original Aladdin movie. I remember reading that. Yeah, that's crazy. It's a good voice. Yeah. I thought that was funny. That's it. Jamie, you got anything? I think you guys covered all my stuff.

[01:33:40] I don't have anything that's jumping out at me. There's nothing huge. The only thing I had is I freeze-framed Rita doing her magazine quiz, true-false quiz, women's liberation and you. It said this quiz will show you how women's lib may affect you now. It didn't totally make sense, but there were six true or false questions that you could see. And one said, hide your intelligence from men so they don't feel threatened by you. And she marked true.

[01:34:11] It wasn't clear if she's saying you should do this or she does do this. I think it would make more sense that she's saying she does do it, I guess. But number two, women aren't as naturally gifted at mathematics as men. And she marked true. So it doesn't seem very liberating. It said only wear feminine clothes that will make boys look twice. True. And those were the only three that she marked. Number four, five and six.

[01:34:37] Four says never get caught out of the house without makeup and always keep some handy. Five says let men hold the door for you because they're stronger. And six said too much physical exertion will make you look like a wrestler. True or false? I mean, most of these women's magazines, especially back then, were still written by men. Yeah, right. And they were sort of reinforcing traditional roles and things like that, right? Yeah.

[01:35:06] I mean, even now, a lot of them are still crap. This could be a great reoccurring bit for future seasons. Like every time you go to the diner, she has a new magazine with a weird name or something.

[01:35:52] Numbers of citizens. The people it kills, get up and kill. Are they slow moving, Chief? Yeah, they're dead. They're all messed up. This is a walking dead cast. Okay, so Brad Caleb Kane talked with Bloody Disgusting. This might be the article you were talking about, Nathan. There's no word on season two, but he said he has ideas if the show does get renewed.

[01:36:20] I just sort of took a few notes. He wanted, as you said, to explore the eccentric residents of Crystal Lake with a bit of a Twin Peaks vibe. Um, he said he's interested in how the characters reflect the cultural changes of the early 70s. Rita's searching for meaning through sex and self-improvement while Dorf is trying to escape his racist father's shadow and find his own identity. And I'm like, yeah, but we saw that this season.

[01:36:47] So I don't know if he plans on developing those storylines even more or what. Um, he said, I hope you guys don't mind me saying this, but Chief Brooks survived. I guess we probably assumed that, right? He was shot. Uh, he's, he said he considers him the show's leading man and ultimate hero inspired by Sidney Poitier and Gary Cooper. And he wants to explore Brooks experience as a black police chief in small town America.

[01:37:15] So he wants to do more storytelling with him, which is good. Uh, he said he has already has a thematic framework in mind for season two, including a whole lot more sackhead, Jason and carnage. And he also, yeah, you better have that. He also wants to introduce more familiar characters from Friday, the 13th franchise who haven't appeared yet. So that's cool. Maybe you'll get Alice. Ralph's wife. I was going to say,

[01:37:45] in part three, there's a couple who gets killed, a townie couple who gets killed kind of early on that I've been looking for and we haven't seen them yet. So I would like to see them. Cool. Uh, variety talked with Brad Caleb Kane and asked him why we hadn't seen Jason in the hockey mask. And the article says a key win Kane had in developing the show was that crystal Lake avoided the previous rights holder complexities that have challenged films in the past.

[01:38:13] For example, the ninth and 10th installments, Jason goes to hell with the final Friday and Jason X couldn't use the Friday, the 13th moniker in the titles. Luckily the previous friction had dissipated quote. There were really no issues rights wise with the show. Kane says we weren't given any particular parameters about what we could and couldn't do. There were discussions about the hockey mask because that's such an iconic look for Jason. And that's what everybody thinks about, but we're doing a show that predates Pamela's murder in the first movie and the hockey mask.

[01:38:41] Obviously we all know that didn't come until the third movie, which cool. That means they can do it. But I would say, you know, adult Jason didn't appear until the second movie, dude. Very good point. You can have a hockey mask hanging around. Yeah. That would have been cool. Like just, just a little tongue in cheek with a hockey mask. Absolutely. But maybe he wants it to have, it's a big entrance, you know?

[01:39:08] There's, I was looking at an article from 2024 when Brian Fuller, who was originally supposed to be the showrunner, left the show or that it fell through. There was budget disputes and other behind the scenes issues. But Brian Fuller, he's an auteur. He's known for, I think, Pushing Daisies. Is that right? And Hannibal is a big show of his that everybody loved. I haven't seen it, but I've heard it's great.

[01:39:37] But the first season of American Gods, I saw and really liked. It was just beautifully done. That was good. Yeah. Yeah. And so there was an article about the wrap in 2024 about Fuller's plans for the series. I'm pretty sure Brad Cable and Cain basically started from scratch when he came in. And so some of this is just, they had a germ of an idea, but the execution, I think, would have been different.

[01:40:02] So the article said, in the grand ambition of Crystal Lake, each season would be a deconstruction of the first four Paramount movies. The series would incorporate lore from several sequels, but remix that material in a way similar to Fuller's Hannibal, which interpolated the Thomas Harris novels for three seasons. Quote, we had the mask, we had the sequels, we could do whatever we wanted. He had a good path forward, which I did really like, said a source close to the A24 side of Fuller's vision.

[01:40:30] And they said Charlize Theron was being considered for Pamela Voorhees, that Kevin Williamson, the writer of Screen, the movie Scream, was writing a major episode described as the show's equivalent of the Game of Thrones' Red Wedding set entirely on a frozen crystal lake with the summer camps cabins buried in snowdrifts.

[01:40:54] They had an impressive roster of directors assembled, including Vincenzo Natale, who did Cube and Splice and some Hannibal episodes, and Kimberly Pierce, who did Boys Don't Cry and Carrie. And it was going to be an $85 million series. And anyway, I'm really curious to see what that version would have been, you know? Maybe it wouldn't have been that different, I don't know. I think it would have been different, though.

[01:41:22] I feel like it would have been, because like I said, I talked to Adrienne King about it when they had announced it, and she was like, the people who are working on this right now understand and love this. And Adrienne King, I've seen her in a few cons and had several conversations and watched a bunch of panels with her. She is a lover of Friday the 13th. She gets the lore. She likes getting paid, but she understands Friday the 13th and the love that it has and the lore and all of the stuff.

[01:41:52] Like, she gets it more than some of the other actors. And she was like, no, the people who are making this absolutely love it. They know what they're doing. She's like, it's going to be amazing. And I don't know. I'm curious what she thinks of this show versus the other one. Yeah, I wonder if she said anything. We should look that up. She doesn't do a lot of public press. Like, it's more you've just got to get her ear. At a convention. Yeah.

[01:42:19] He has a Crystal Lake Wine Company. Yep. And I noticed one of them has a punny name. It's a Cabin A Sauvignon. So moving on to other subjects of interest to listeners of this podcast.

[01:42:38] I can't remember if we've actually mentioned this on the podcast, but a little while back, AMC announced that the final season of The Walking Dead, Daryl Dixon, will come out in February of 2027. Which I was glad to hear. I'm glad they didn't push it back to September. There's a trailer online, but I'm not going to watch it. I just figure I might as well go in fresh.

[01:43:03] But people who saw the trailer seem to be worried that either Carol or Daryl will die or one of them will stay in Europe. Any thoughts on that? What you'd like to see happen? I don't want either one to die. So staying in Europe is okay. If we've got to make it final, stay in Europe is okay. I don't care who. But I don't want anybody to die. We've had them for too long. They are the ones who live.

[01:43:34] I guess it depends where they... Like after this, we don't really know what stories they have planned other than a possible other season of Dead City. So depending on how much further they go, they could do something big here. They always seem to be saying, don't worry, Walking Dead isn't over. We've got other things in the pipeline. They might come out a little bit slower, but we're not finished yet.

[01:44:03] And then they talk about shorter things and longer things. And Scott Gimple has said repeatedly that he still wants to do some kind of a reunion with Rick and Michonne and Negan and Maggie and Daryl. So I don't know if they will be able to do that, but he's still recently been saying that's what he'd like to do. So that might be a possibility.

[01:44:27] But as far as the Daryl show goes, I think the obvious thing to do would be to have Carol stay in Spain because she has a new boyfriend there in the show. And Daryl come home and give Rick a big hug. That's kind of what I hope. I'd be happy with that. We can't forget, Laurent is waiting for him as well. That's right. You can't just leave Laurent. Laurent's important. He's got a new Rubik's Cube. Yeah.

[01:44:54] Next, Chandler Riggs, who of course played Carl, made his own 19 minute live action adaptation of Resident Evil 7 slash Biohazard. He wrote, directed, edited and starred in the film. He plays Ethan Winters, who's the main character of that game with fellow Walking Dead actor Jason Douglas or Tobin as the bad guy Jack Baker. I guess Greg Nicotero contributed some special effects equipment.

[01:45:22] I don't know exactly what, but the I started to watch it. I haven't watched the whole thing, but it looks like a pretty good adaptation of if you play that game, the opening where the Baker family dinner where Ethan's like strapped into this chair. There's all this disgusting stuff all over the table that they're making him eat and all the way through his confrontation with Jack in the garage using practical sets and effects. And it's free on YouTube. I'll put a link to the show notes.

[01:45:51] But Chandler says he's a huge fan of the game and wanted to see a faithful live action adaptation. And he basically figured that if Hollywood wasn't giving him the opportunities he wanted, he'd make something himself. And then Resident Evil 7 director Koshi Nakanishi saw the film and shared it on Instagram and said, wow, with an exhalation point. So that was pretty cool. That's awesome. I know. And Chandler said he'd love to expand it into a feature length movie.

[01:46:16] And he also said he really liked Zach Craig's new Resident Evil movie. And he would love to work with Craig on a future movie. And I just thought it was kind of interesting that Austin Abrams, who played Ron Anderson, the guy that shot Carl's eye out, is in a big Resident Evil movie. And now Chandler's Riggs made his own adaptation of a game at the same time. It's kind of funny. But it's pretty funny. Good for him for creating his own opportunities. Absolutely. It's really cool.

[01:46:46] Speaking of the Zach Craig's Resident Evil movie, you may have noticed Rima and I reviewed it on this podcast a couple weeks back when it first came out. And we both loved it. I loved it. If you haven't seen it, I really recommend it. It's actually pretty funny. That's one thing I didn't expect. Yeah. It's so good. It's really fun. And it's a hit, too.

[01:47:09] It made $364.5 million worldwide so far, making it the highest grossing Resident Evil movie, beating out Resident Evil The Final Chapter, which made $314 million. It's also the highest rated video game adaptation ever on Rotten Tomatoes with a 96% and a 90% audience score. And it's going to be available for digital download, rental, or purchase on November 3rd.

[01:47:36] And probably will come to Netflix, I read, before the end of the year at some point. So people who didn't get a chance to see it and don't want to go to the theater, maybe you can watch it then. Or people like me who just want to watch it again. Yeah. I mean, I'm definitely going to watch it again. Nico hasn't seen it yet, so I got to show him. We play Resident Evil games together sometimes. Excited about that. All right. Let's move on to listener moans, groans, and grunts. Nathan, you want to read?

[01:48:06] We got one written message and one call. All right. This first one's from Aaron Peterson. Linda Cardellini somehow gave an Emmy-worthy performance in a prequel series based on one of the cheesiest horror movie franchises of all time. Amen to that. What I loved about this series and Friday as my favorite horror series was how little mythology there was.

[01:48:32] Crystal Lake went completely the other way and somehow legitimized the entire franchise by making it deeper and more meaningful. This was a great ride. Yes, it was. That's good. Good. I'm glad you liked it, Aaron. And here's a call from Steve Brown. I actually stitched two calls together. His first call was on episodes four through six, and then he did a quick one on seven and eight to wrap it up. So here we go. Hello, Axiom Sadiq. This is Steve.

[01:49:02] And I just finished binging through, gosh, Crystal Lake episodes four through six. And, man, did this season step it up in these last few episodes. I'm going to have to rewatch them and can't wait to listen to your podcast coverage of them because I know it's got to be crazy. And it's really cool. Well, cool. I don't know if that's the right word for it. How they've expanded this universe. And I have no idea where the season is going to end.

[01:49:31] I hope we somehow get a season two, maybe, or if they at least wrap everything up well here in season one. What are they set up for season two? Because, you know, Pamela Voorhees' story in the movies ends right there at the first two movies, really. So I don't know what we're going to get, if we're going to get more backstory or what.

[01:49:54] But I can't wait to listen to the podcast of these and I'm really excited to watch the last two and send you something for those. Talk to you later. Hello, Axe Opsodic. This is Steve. And I just started, well, I'm a little ways into episode seven of Crystal Lake, season one of Crystal Lake. And this is a big departure in just the way this is shot and everything that's flashing back to 1959 and obviously before Jason is born.

[01:50:20] Okay, this creepy way they keep just saying the treatment is not good. I just was listening to your take of episode one and Jamie saying that it's very much like an adult stranger things. It's kind of crud because even this is now shot differently with the black bars on either side of the screen instead of top and bottom. Ooh, the baby was still born on Friday the 13th. And Trista's baby was a girl. Oh, did he just come back to life after drowning? The baby, I mean. Is that a guy encounter that's reacting to Jason?

[01:50:50] Oh, Elias. That cut deep. Louncing her and psychiatric medication. Come on, dude. Threatening to take her child away. Come on, dude. Oh, Subject J, as in Jason. Nuclear testing to survive humans to survive nuclear war. Wow. Okay, on to episode eight, the final episode of the first season, the final chapter. And so she just admitted to the sheriff that the two men she killed was in self-defense. But what about all the other people you've killed, Pam?

[01:51:19] Dude, just give some stranger Pamela's address out of the blue. Come on, man. Okay, so Lee tells the truth about why he left Newark and Pam is still arrested. Dorfman is somehow going to check on her. Of course, you probably already talked about episode seven where they explained the trauma making Jason, the subjects react somehow. I'm sure that's probably going to end up being why Jason is the way he is, right? It's still a little suspicious. I don't know. That you didn't report your wife's kidnapping your son eight years ago.

[01:51:49] Oh, he saw the reporter's coat on the chair. Oh, Elias brought a team with him. Oh, Chief, they all got their guns out now. Oh, Dorf comes through with the shurikens, with the star throw. And of course, the shooting starts. And Dorf got the plate of the car on his way in. Oh, and a guy with a sack on his head standing in the middle of the road. Oh, and the reveal of Jason. Why only one eye hole? I don't know why. That's just the question. Good question. Maybe he has a lazy eye, too. And now he's back out into the woods.

[01:52:17] This last scene, isn't this similar to the first scene or in the movie? I can't remember. Well, we'll see if there's going to be a season two or not. Talk to you later. Why only one eye hole? I think he does have a lazy eye. I think that's why. Because that one eye is always way more messed up than the other eye. He can't see 3D either. He's pretty proficient at killing for not being able to see. Yeah, you adapt. Yeah, I'm impressed.

[01:52:46] I think just because of how big the shape of his skull is and everything, I think that eye is effectively closed for the most part, just because of all the weight and everything. Yep. Just another thing to feel bad about for him. Oh, I did forget to mention that. They made him a lot more deformed after the drowning.

[01:53:14] Because he was just a normal kid face with a weird shaped head. Yeah. And now his face is all kinds of screwed up. He had some weird shit going on, clearly. It's just... You know, if you're going to do a backstory, give me the whole story. That's all I'm asking. All right. That is our show, episode 727. Thank you for going on this journey to Camp Crystal Lake with us, everybody.

[01:53:43] And thank you, Jamie and Nathan, for helping to talk through this series. It was great to have you guys on. It was really fun. This was a lot of fun. Appreciate you guys. Thanks for having us. Yeah, thank you. Next episode, we will get back to the Walking Dead rewatch with Walking Dead Season 7, Episode 5, Go-Getters. If you want to write in or leave us a voice message about it, you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com.

[01:54:11] And while you're there, please check out our other podcasts, such as... Well, first of all, new announcement. I will be on the Walking Dead rewatch for Season 7, Episode 6. So if you enjoy my dulcet tones, you can hear them two weeks from now. It's a good one because it's the Oceanside one, right? Yes.

[01:54:37] And you're the biggest Tara fan I know, so you will be the perfect co-host for that. I'm ready. Yeah, that'd be great. Also, Karen and I are having a blast covering Widow's Bay. I know I keep mentioning that, but it's just so good. So if you haven't checked that out, it'd be great to check out Everything's Fine, a Widow's Bay podcast. And I'm excited.

[01:55:02] This isn't out yet, but Yellow Jacket's final season's coming up soon, November 20th. So we'll be getting back into that. Oh, man, we're finally getting close. Yeah. And if for some reason you really enjoy listening to me talk, you can listen to Bakedastica on a completely different idea of the Great British Baking Show. We're all happy and joyful.

[01:55:24] I heard next week is the slasher episode, though, so they'll just get rid of five contestants in one week. We got rid of two last week. I'm behind. I need to get caught up. It's so good. I love this cast. They're so good. I know. I say that every time, but I really love this one. Yeah, they vary a little bit in how much you love them, but this one I agree is particularly good.

[01:55:51] One other thing, Dexter Resurrection Season 2 is coming out soon, within days as I'm recording this. It might already be out when you're hearing me. And I'm going to do a Patreon-only thing where I bring in one or two fans of that series, which is a great series, by the way. If you're a fan of Dexter, pretty much everyone agrees that it really shit the bed in the final few episodes of that show. Oh my God, that ending was awful.

[01:56:21] It was so bad. But they did New Blood recently, which picked up from where that show left off, and it was pretty good. It was good. Yeah, it was good, but also some people didn't like the ending of that one. And then they did Resurrection, another new series. And I thought, okay, now you're hitting the mark. Because New Blood, one thing they didn't have in New Blood is Dexter wasn't doing his sly comments so much in his voiceover.

[01:56:48] And they put that back in in Resurrection, and it just felt more like the old Dexter. And I loved it. And it had Peter Dinklage, and it was just great. So Season 2 is coming out soon. And in the tradition of our old Fear the Walking Dead roundtable rants, it'll be like that, except it'll be roundtable reactions. Because we're not expecting it to be negative. We're expecting it to be positive.

[01:57:14] So I'm going to bring in one or two people, and we'll talk about the episode just sort of off the cuff. It won't be all that prepared, but it'll be fun, and it will be Patreon only. So if you would like to be a part of that, you could actually come on one with me or just hear those. Just sign up for my Patreon at patreon.com slash Jason Cabassi. And you will be helping me keep the podcasting going at the same time. All right, that is our show. Thanks for listening.

[01:57:42] Don't get your eyes gouged out, Aaron Peterson.