News:
• Surviving Womanhood and Hollywood With Yellowjackets Star Simone Kessell: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2023/03/yellowjackets-simone-kessell-lottie-interview?fbclid=IwAR3S_NDQcZtyCxT7Uk86NQDBPuVOLqorWgoxa--5W-Lg8vbbi9ded3NSEIU&mibextid=kdkkhi
• Yellowjackets’ Warren Kole Discusses Jeff’s Potential and Evolution: https://nerdist.com/article/yellowjackets-jeff-sadecki-actor-warren-kole-discusses-character-potential-motivations-madness-book-club-and-more/?fbclid=IwAR3DPNocJ5s5oFXajhEfv9avXl8kSB9yByHMX0dYmB_igbsEuhXLhmBF0m0&mibextid=kdkkhi
• ‘Yellowjackets’ Cult: Creating the Masks for Lottie’s Followers: https://old.billionaireclubcollc.com/yellowjackets-cult-creating-the-masks-for-lotties-followers/?swcfpc=1&fbclid=IwAR1xHgZpiX3Ec87FYSs09VkEkMubTgXA0VV0zKIoojv4eCffC1Q5RLYMpv4&mibextid=kdkkhi
• How the ‘Yellowjackets’ ‘Weirdos’ Fell in Love and Wrote a Hit Show: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/27/arts/television/yellowjackets-creators-interview.html • ‘Yellowjackets’: Simone Kessell Explains Why Adult Lottie Buries A Man Alive In The Premiere: https://deadline.com/2023/03/yellowjackets-simone-kessell-adult-lottie-premiere-1235309593/?mibextid=kdkkhi
• ‘Yellowjackets’ Showrunners Dissect Season 2 Premiere: Creating Adult Lottie, Shauna’s Recklessness and That Shocking [SPOILER] at the End: https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/yellowjackets-premiere-showrunners-shauna-eating-jackies-ear-1235563321/?fbclid=IwAR1f37TsdHy09CbMNuY7wfQ3v9OEzKv0fdcm-ncu-PLhyLzl9qjsUFWy5SM
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*Slowly*
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*Slowly*
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*Slowly*
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*Slowly*
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*Slowly*
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Okay, who reeks?
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Who y'all do?
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Yeah, but this is next level.
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Fuckin' serious!
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Oh, took a shit!
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*Slowly*
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In the pee bucket!
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Come on, guys, we made a rule if it's yellow, achimelo, if it's brown, then fucking do it outside just fess up!
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That's it!
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Does it look like it's a girl poo or, you know...
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A boy one.
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What?
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That is definitely not a thing.
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Seriously?
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You all need to grow up!
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*Slowly*
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*Slowly*
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*Slowly*
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*Slowly*
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*Slowly*
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*Slowly*
00:00:47
Hey, everybody welcome to the podcast, I'm Jason.
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And I'm Daphne.
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And I think that makes me penny.
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And this is Yellow Jackets WTF episode 21.
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This episode we're covering Yellow Jackets season 2 episode 2, edible complex.
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You guys hungry?
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This one made me really hungry.
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Oh no.
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No.
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Not so much.
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No.
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No.
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So the Etappist Complex is a Freudian theory that boys unconsciously want to have sex with their mothers and ostracize their fathers.
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So I think the edible complex is when teenagers unconsciously want to eat their friends, right?
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That's certainly the implication of the title.
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Yeah.
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*Slowly*
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Alright, it's Yellow Jackets season 2 episode 2, edible complex.
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What did you guys think in general?
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I thought it was a fantastic episode in a lot of ways.
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We learned a lot of information.
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And it was really like creepy and spooky at times.
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But was I grossed out at the end?
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Yeah.
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*Slowly*
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I mean, the thing is like we know it's a show about cannibalism and...
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Yeah.
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And I even kept saying that they're gonna eat Jackie.
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But then it happens and it's like, oh my god, I can't believe it's actually happening.
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Yeah.
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Disgusting.
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You just told me that.
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You know it's coming, but you don't know how it's gonna hit ya.
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Yeah.
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No.
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And I think until we saw the end of this episode, I kind of was dismissing the cannibalism because even though it's been alluded to a lot,
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I still was trying knowing these showrunners.
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I was thinking they were sending us on a course that was gonna take us around that.
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And we may not even get to what they had shown us earlier, which made it look like cannibalism.
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I wasn't convinced that that actually was what was going to happen until we saw basically a roasted Jackie.
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Yeah.
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Are you convinced now?
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Oh yeah.
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Unless that wasn't real, I mean, was it a, it was real?
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Oh man.
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Yeah.
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You guys kept trying to, oh, maybe they were, they like were just luring some animal out for bait.
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And that's what we saw them eating.
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And I just thought, no, I think the hook of this show is that they were cannibals.
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And if they took that away and were like, oh, you didn't really see what you thought you were seeing.
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That would just feel like lessening the impact of what we saw.
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And I don't think this show ever does that.
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They don't lessen the impact of things, you know.
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Yeah.
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They're high impact.
00:03:47
Well, they also tend to show us only what we need to see at that time.
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They just show us just enough.
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This time, I feel like they did not just show us just enough.
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They planted it firmly in front of us and said, here it is.
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You wanted the answer.
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Here's the answer.
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In your face.
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Yes.
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Are you happy now, everybody?
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I couldn't believe it.
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In some ways, I couldn't believe it.
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And in other ways, I was like, we've just been waiting for this.
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I just didn't think we'd get it quite yet.
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No, me neither.
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I'm surprised it came this soon.
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In fact, I was sort of thinking, okay, we already got a lot of, as Nat said,
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we're going to have a wicked bullshit happening and no offense to any
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wickeds out there.
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And the cannibalism.
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And that's kind of the two aspects of this cannibal council that were pretty shocking,
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just that the ritualistic ceremonialness of it all and the actual cannibalism.
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And man, we're well on our way.
00:04:55
So I'm like, how are they going to paste this out over five seasons?
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It kind of makes me wonder if we won't get to the cannibal council earlier than we thought.
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Maybe next season.
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And then the last two seasons, if they get to do the five that they want to do,
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will be more just other stuff.
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Like, I always think maybe the adult versions of the women will go back out to the wilderness at some point.
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Yeah.
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I also think we're going to get more and more of the 1998 timeline.
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Right?
00:05:24
So I'm fascinated by that too.
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If that ends up being two seasons, I'd be pretty happy.
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Yeah. We've talked about that before about how it would be great to see like what the aftermath was when they were rescued.
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And we got just that little glimpse last week.
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This week we really didn't get anything.
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But again, I trust very much like the handmaid's tale.
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I know I said this a bunch of times.
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I really trust that they're going to give us what we need to know.
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And this did give me a few more questions that I'd like to have some answers to.
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But I'm sure they'll give it to us all in good time.
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Yeah.
00:06:02
So before we get into the meat of the matter, so to speak, definitely.
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What did you think in general of this episode?
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I really liked it.
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I don't think they've missed a beat.
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I think they up to the creep factor.
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I wasn't sure it was possible for them to do that.
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But they definitely did.
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We got that really creepy, lorally seen.
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Yeah. That's creepy.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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We got to see that.
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We got the ending, which was really fucked up, I mean, to be honest.
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But there were other things that happened in it.
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There were also very creepy.
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Yeah.
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In addition to that.
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But I don't want to go too deep into it because one of my points is something very particular.
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Okay.
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So I'm going to go back on that.
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Let's just kind of quickly go through what our fucked up moment of the week is.
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I'm not sure anything really qualifies this week.
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But we'll do it anyway.
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We usually do the segment.
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It's a broad yardstick we use to determine.
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Yes.
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What would you say, Penny?
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I decided to think outside the funeral pyre a little bit.
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I chose Thai seemingly intentionally crashing the car because Simone made her angry.
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Oh, is that?
00:07:25
I didn't read that.
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I didn't read that.
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Really?
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Yes.
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The look.
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Really?
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It was that look.
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She was looking at Simone and she had the evil eyes, which is what I have in my points.
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And then she was looking at her with her head turned and she sort of like smiled a little bit and sped up.
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Wow.
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That's what I was like.
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What's that?
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Holy shit.
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I didn't even catch that.
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Yeah.
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I thought she was just falling asleep again because she was, you know, sleep deprived.
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I think I think she drifts in and out of this.
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So maybe she did kind of fall asleep and wake up as dark Thai.
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Uh-huh.
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Yeah.
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Dark Thai.
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I used to take over.
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Holy shit.
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I gotta go watch that again.
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God.
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Yeah.
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It is disturbing.
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And Simone, I mean, had been so nice to her up and took like, and said, you've really got to, you've got to,
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take care of yourself.
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This, this, this, you're very sick.
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Yeah.
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There's a problem.
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Which it was nice to see her show a little more caring.
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Mm-hmm.
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Towards her because she hasn't.
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She's just been, you know, pissed off and yeah, it's just been difficult.
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See, this has been difficult.
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When, um, Lottie is saying she's getting it.
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It wants everyone to go back to their primal selves.
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There's a part of me that thinks that's what she means.
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Like dark Thai.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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When she said last season, it was, it's already in, in him for her.
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In you.
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Yeah.
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And it's in you.
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It's in all of them or something like that.
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But we don't know what it is.
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I know.
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And if you think about darkness in general, given what they've been put through out in the wilderness, you know, I imagine they've connected with that piece of themselves.
00:09:07
It is very dark because they're trying to survive.
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And when you're putting that situation where you just don't have anything, it's all been stripped away and you're left with what's, you know, your primal self.
00:09:22
You may do shit that you never thought possible.
00:09:25
And we've talked about that before on this podcast where they're in this situation.
00:09:30
And it's just taking them to places they never imagined.
00:09:34
And I think I usually poop out in the woods.
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I don't normally just poop anywhere, except in the toilet.
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I don't know why I'm saying this.
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All right.
00:09:45
What about you, Daphne?
00:09:47
What's your fucked up over the week?
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I don't think there's anything more fucked up than the funeral pyre.
00:09:54
I mean, honestly, out of everything we've seen on this show over the course of the first season and these first two episodes.
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I knew as soon as the snow fell on top of her, exactly what was going to happen because it basically created this instance where she was roasted like a chicken or a pork roast that you would put in the oven.
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Almost like one of those ground pits.
00:10:22
Yeah.
00:10:23
It took the cremation into a barbecue.
00:10:26
Yeah.
00:10:28
I just, that whole process of putting her on the funeral pyre and then Shawna lighting her.
00:10:38
It was, I mean, if you think about it, this is what they used to do way back in the day.
00:10:44
That's how they would dispose of bodies as they would burn them.
00:10:49
And so that part didn't creep me out.
00:10:51
It was the fact that the snow fell on top of her and roasted her like a chicken.
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And then the juxtap... you know, the back and forth between them all looking beautiful and eating strawberries and then back to them slicing Jackie up.
00:11:08
Yeah.
00:11:09
Yeah.
00:11:10
I thought it was a gorgeous scene in its way.
00:11:13
Creepy and disgusting, but like you...
00:11:16
Yeah.
00:11:17
It was beautiful.
00:11:18
And it kind of gave us the look of how things would be with, you know, in the regular world when they're all dressed up and they're eating and everything seems just gorgeous.
00:11:30
And then how things really are, which is them digging into these instincts because they don't really have a choice anymore.
00:11:39
Food is running out.
00:11:41
I mean, they're starving like hallucination level starvation and cooked.
00:11:47
Meat is just like dropped in front of them.
00:11:52
I don't know how Ben had the strength to resist that.
00:11:55
Yeah.
00:11:56
I mean, in one sense, it is the most fucked up moment of the series, especially for how starkly it was depicted even with...
00:12:03
Because I think it was actually more of a heightened thing than actual reality.
00:12:08
Because they're all dressed up in like Roman garb and made up.
00:12:11
They've got their wine and they're toasting each other and eating grapes. And I think the point of that was to show how it felt in their minds, you know, to them.
00:12:19
Just glorious, right?
00:12:20
And also to kind of ease us into it a little bit.
00:12:22
But then when you see just the roasted body and they're digging into it, it's very stark and disturbing.
00:12:29
You could argue it's less fucked up than other moments in the series because, yeah, as you guys just said, they're starving.
00:12:35
And she's gone and maybe, Sean is right, she would have wanted them to do that, maybe not, maybe possibly.
00:12:43
But she is gone.
00:12:46
But to me, it's more fucked up when they drove pit girl into this pit and ate her.
00:12:54
So we haven't gotten to that level of fucked up yet.
00:12:57
But just the way it made me feel though.
00:13:01
Yeah, it's the way it made you feel because we didn't know, we don't even know, well, we were pretty sure, but we don't know 100% who the cannibal council even is.
00:13:10
And at that point, it was in the first episode.
00:13:12
So we weren't attached to them.
00:13:13
Now we know all these girls and we know the one that's on the prior to.
00:13:18
And so in that sense, it's more disturbing.
00:13:21
Yeah.
00:13:22
So less disturbing to eat a stranger than a friend.
00:13:25
Well, it's also less morally awful to eat someone who died than it is to kill someone to eat them.
00:13:35
They were exactly my point.
00:13:37
Yeah.
00:13:38
Yeah.
00:13:39
That is a step that we haven't seen them take yet.
00:13:42
But I do believe we're firmly on the road.
00:13:45
Oh, yeah.
00:13:46
To that.
00:13:48
Maybe, and maybe the point of the showrunners is to give us things like this to get us prepared for what we're going to see.
00:13:56
Yeah.
00:13:57
Well, last week we saw we saw Sean eat the ear last week and that was kind of the next thing.
00:14:03
Yeah.
00:14:04
And speaking of that, for this week with roasted Jackie, she really looked like a chicken.
00:14:14
Yeah, she sort of looked like, but yeah, much of that was her varsity jacket sleeves.
00:14:19
I was so confused about leaving the jacket on.
00:14:22
Yeah.
00:14:23
If it would like cook into her skin, like I was like, are they also eating the jacket?
00:14:27
Like what's happening?
00:14:28
It's a good question.
00:14:29
Yeah.
00:14:30
Yeah, I don't think I don't think it melted off.
00:14:34
I don't know.
00:14:35
Yeah.
00:14:36
But you know, talking about how they've prepped us and let us up to this.
00:14:41
And that actually leads to my first point.
00:14:45
So you guys mind if I go first this time?
00:14:48
No, go for it.
00:14:49
Yeah.
00:14:50
Oh, well, yeah, Jason, but what was your fucked up moment of the week?
00:14:53
Oh, that's it.
00:14:54
Yeah, absolutely.
00:14:55
Okay.
00:14:56
Yeah.
00:14:57
Then I think we're ready to move on.
00:14:59
I don't get creative with it.
00:15:01
No.
00:15:02
I don't think outside the higher.
00:15:04
So it's my first point is the road to cannibalism.
00:15:07
That's led up to this moment.
00:15:18
First is that moment where we saw them chasing the girl into the pit and then eating her just so we know where this is all going.
00:15:19
We don't know who's involved.
00:15:20
We're not attached to them yet, but we're curious who's involved so that from then on, we're wondering how did how did they get to that moment?
00:15:28
Who was it?
00:15:29
You know, who got eaten?
00:15:32
I don't know if I have the order of all these right and I'm probably even missing something, but Sean had dreamt of giving birth to a roast chicken and eating it.
00:15:42
And it's interesting.
00:15:43
Oh, God.
00:15:44
Yeah, that was pretty disturbing.
00:15:46
I forgot about that.
00:15:48
I mean, how do you forget something like that, but I did.
00:15:50
And it's her, you know, it's interesting that it's her in retrospect having the dream.
00:15:55
Also, it sort of makes me wonder if that makes her more aggressive about like eating an ear and stuff that she's pregnant.
00:16:03
Probably.
00:16:04
She's probably more aggressive of getting food.
00:16:06
Then, Sean kills adults.
00:16:10
She's trying to kill and dress that rabbit from her yard, which made you think, you know, she's got a high tolerance for that kind of a thing and she knows exactly what she's doing.
00:16:22
There's all the talk of it wants blood and, you know, you must spill blood and sacrifice and then, you know, young Sean almost killed Travis at Lottie's urging, saying, you know, and then I think they would have eaten him.
00:16:38
You know, they were calling for sacrifice.
00:16:40
They ended up eating the bear instead.
00:16:44
Adult Sean, I was the one who knew how to cut up Adam's body.
00:16:50
There were just all of that stuff showed that she knew what she was doing as far as how to cut up somebody and eat them.
00:17:00
The last episode she ate Jackie's ear.
00:17:03
And here at the beginning of this episode, imaginary ghost Jackie is taunting her that there's not much meat left and she said it's time to be honest.
00:17:12
Sean, you're hungry and Sean is like, well, Mary's making food inside.
00:17:17
Well, that's not what you're hungry for, which is interesting because it plays into the whole psychodrama between Jackie and Sean, that it's about more like bringing her into herself or wanting to be her wanting them to be one or wanting to she loves her but also wants to destroy her just all of this interesting stuff.
00:17:34
But then she put that knife to her arm and I know no, no, Jackie put the knife to her arm and Sean is like, what are you doing?
00:17:41
It's okay. I don't eat anymore and she cuts into herself and Sean is like, stop, stop, stop.
00:17:46
And Sean is like, you're the one holding the knife.
00:17:51
In any other episode, that would have been a good candidate for fucked up moment of the week.
00:17:56
Yeah.
00:17:57
And later we see she actually did cut the flesh because Laughty Notice is it and we don't know for sure if she ate it but come on, she ate it.
00:18:06
It's Sean.
00:18:09
And then and then that led up to the end of this episode, where Ty's all upset that Sean abrated Jackie's hair and did her make up and posed her arms.
00:18:19
She doesn't even know about the slicing the flesh stuff but she's like, that's enough. We got a cremate Jackie put a stop to this.
00:18:26
Sean is panicking at the idea but ties insistent.
00:18:29
And the moment where then you see Travis and Nat finally having some relatively non awkward sex, although it's in part because Travis is imagining that she's Laughty and then maybe imagining Laughty's watching or maybe Laughty is watching.
00:18:48
I don't know but we can get more into that but it was interesting that they interspersed that with then the camera came like from above the tree as if some entity was coming down.
00:18:59
That's what it felt like to me like the sex was summoning something that caused the snow to fall on Jackie because the spirits of the force want them to eat her.
00:19:09
The way I would put it for my pragmatic non believing point of view is the fire melted the snow in the branches NFL but it was presented in a way that it could be both as Yellowjackets kind of always does.
00:19:21
And then when they wake up and a van says, what is that the way she delivered the line it really conveyed in her voice that whatever it is she wants some.
00:19:32
Yeah, they were woken up basically by that smell of cooked meat.
00:19:39
Yeah, and I could almost smell it myself. It was so twisted that this show because you know they're starving and they're all just like, what is that?
00:19:47
And I could really imagine just being really hungry and smelling meat like that and just wanting to go get it.
00:19:54
Yeah, well, and you couldn't see what they showed us of the body just it looked like one like chicken shaped like like a body kind of because any distinguishing features were gone it really looked like meat.
00:20:10
Yeah, you know, and chicken.
00:20:13
You probably would right probably would look like that.
00:20:17
Yeah, and so then they kneel around her. Shana says she wants us to which I think is a deliberate mirror with when Lodi said it wants us to when she was trying to get Shana to kill Travis.
00:20:32
And then the whole intercut with them made up in the Roman togas and everything and it was showing them more eating in the nice version of that reality for at first, but then it more as it flick it back and forth more and more into what they were doing then the overhead shot of them all just chowing down and then.
00:20:53
And then you see the coach inside with them you can see them out the front door. I mean, I'm just narrating what happened but it was just so stark and so messed up.
00:21:05
And so now they've had a taste so you kind of wonder what's that I mean with the coach was in there in the cabin looking disturbed I was thinking your next buddy.
00:21:18
I know and you have to wonder does he know do you think part of that fear is okay. He didn't want to partake in it but then does he know that oh he's next you know I I could be next because I'm injured and you know what do they need me for and he's also the adult yeah the only adult they're all barely there anymore.
00:21:42
Yeah, I mean they just ignore him all the time. Yeah, they don't look to him as any sort of leadership. Except we don't even level we don't know if he's next but we it's just what I've always we don't we always have thought that.
00:22:00
I don't think this is going to launch like a cannibal spree I think they're going to sort of come down from the high of eating and deal with the fallout of having done it and then it's going to have to build back up again.
00:22:14
Yeah.
00:22:16
And I mean the likelihood of another one of them succumbing to something.
00:22:21
I mean let's face it they're out there it's winter anything can happen yeah I mean I could see this might be too predictable to happen but somebody like is hurt and.
00:22:34
So one of the girls has the opportunity to save them but what doesn't because they're hungry or something like that you know yeah.
00:22:43
Because again they're out there and they're having to make impossible choices and this was one impossible thing that they I mean it probably never occurred to them outside of this experience anything like that happening.
00:22:57
It's been interesting to me to that Shawna is the one who lit the funeral pyre and she was also the first person to.
00:23:05
Cut a piece of Jackie yeah off and eat it but that's because I think part of that's because she's already been mowing down on her a little bit she's also the one who has the knife.
00:23:18
So she would have had to hand it to someone else or someone else to be.
00:23:23
And coach was the one who said well you want to know how to do this so he was showing her what she needed to do right at the very beginning yeah.
00:23:36
And I just feel like that could come back to bite him literally.
00:23:42
All right who wants to go next.
00:23:46
I can because I had to do a little bit of research on this one I want to talk about taisha her sleep deprivation and what sleep deprivation can do to a person in general.
00:24:00
And why you know she's seeing things that aren't there I'm not sure how long she hasn't really been sleeping but you can see her drinking coffee and exercising.
00:24:12
She does doze off from time to time but the initial signs of someone who are going through sleep deprivation are like excessive sleepiness not being able to focus or concentrate and then also having mood changes which let's face it.
00:24:30
And then the high is has been showing those and then an ongoing lack of sleep is also associated with a bunch of different diseases like hypertension and heart attacks.
00:24:43
But it also leads to like memory loss and we can immune system psychotic disorders depression and anxiety.
00:24:53
And severe sleep deprivation is visual disturbance seeing the wrong color size depth or distance illusions trouble identifying common objects and sounds and hallucinations both simple and complex.
00:25:10
I didn't realize she was having a hallucination until someone shows up and he's not there.
00:25:17
Yeah that was convincing that Sammy was really there.
00:25:21
No I didn't know until the principal called.
00:25:24
And said can we haven't picked up your kid which was.
00:25:29
Pretty impactful I felt like I was watching toilet zone or something oh shit and then it starts to show us all the things without Sammy in it but now I'm worried about the dog yeah me too because we all know that I can't take care of a dog.
00:25:43
Not in the appropriate way anyway hashtag save Steve save Steve it's a real thing it's been started.
00:25:53
It's like it can be hashtag live Steve first Steve Brown but hashtag live Steve live live.
00:25:59
Yeah yeah yeah.
00:26:02
So when someone actually does get to the house.
00:26:07
Tyus has been asleep with her head down on the table and so I think when she does get sleep she starts to get back into the world where she sees things as they actually are.
00:26:20
And so she doesn't see Sammy around anymore because well he's he wasn't there in the first place but she's not hallucinating that he is there.
00:26:32
And then again like we were just talking about with Tyusa driving in the car and then speeding the car up.
00:26:41
It's these moments where she's asleep but not asleep where dark Tyusa shows up.
00:26:49
And I think she drifted off for just a second dark Tyusa's here we just don't we don't know we there's no flag that goes up that says it's dark Tyusa.
00:27:00
You can only tell a little bit by the expression on her face.
00:27:04
Yeah and when she sped up that car I'm like oh yeah we have dark Tyusa right here so did you notice when she gets out of the shower and she's sitting at her vanity she looks in the mirror and then she looks down.
00:27:18
And the image in the mirror looks back at her like moves yes and she did.
00:27:23
And I went yeah and then I rebounded and watched it again and I rebounded and watched it again.
00:27:29
I was like oh my god it was subtle but that creeps her out just hearing it.
00:27:34
Yeah and I think yeah I think it's because she's in this dream state.
00:27:40
She's in this state where she's connected to the darkness and she becomes this person that she doesn't want to be but she knows it's there.
00:27:52
I think this this existed in her even before they went out into the world of this and the plane crash.
00:27:59
I just think she had been able to keep it under control a lot more.
00:28:03
I think last season we learned that it was the first time in the wilderness that's what I thought.
00:28:09
Yeah I imagine that that the trauma of the plane crash caused a psychotic episode and split off this like part of Tyusa's personality.
00:28:21
It's part of Tyusa's persona and it's like this the really dark part like the part that's super competitive and wants to win at any cost.
00:28:29
Like that's the dark side of Tyusa and once it was like sectioned off from the rest of Tyusa it got darker and darker and darker.
00:28:38
It didn't have any counterbalance.
00:28:41
I think it's C2 that maybe like she's so driven to succeed and that this is the ultimate derailment like on her way to nationals the plane crashes and that could trigger something like that.
00:28:57
I mean enough what do I know but I'm just like if I was in the writer's room this is what I would be saying.
00:29:03
Well she also had those scenes we saw her with her grandmother and her grandmother was seeing things too.
00:29:10
So it just leads me to believe this is something that's been in her.
00:29:14
Yeah it's an and stress has the capability the capacity.
00:29:18
Yeah because when I'm trying when I'm trying to make a figure out how the events of the show that seems supernatural could be just psychological that like she keeps seeing this no I man man with no eyes.
00:29:35
And yeah to me that the explanation real world explanation is it was just a traumatic event when her grandmother on her deathbed started saying he's here like you don't do away.
00:29:46
And so she just sort of concocted this in her imagination and it stayed with her ever since.
00:29:52
Yeah yeah or it's a demon.
00:29:55
I think that stress brings it out. Yeah I think stress is one of the triggers that starts her going into this psychosis and she thinks if she doesn't sleep very much like she tried as a teenager tying her wrist to van so she couldn't get up and van would know.
00:30:20
But then that's dangerous to because she bites van when she's in the dark state.
00:30:26
I mean in this episode she almost walks off a cliff.
00:30:30
Yeah and somehow she cut the ties with van without waking van up and they don't have any evidence of what she used to do that that's creepy too because then yeah dark tie have a weapon somewhere.
00:30:46
And also I mean we know that she's conscious and capable because she beheaded that dog and made that shrine and drew the symbol you know so she's not like a zombie yeah yeah she's I mean sometimes we see her eating dirt
00:31:04
but other times she's actually doing stuff. Yeah but she doesn't have like lucid memories of doing those things. I don't think so.
00:31:13
I don't think she remembers doing it but she sees it.
00:31:16
You know what I think she did when she sees it.
00:31:18
I think she pooped in the bucket.
00:31:21
Oh yeah I think she pooped in the bucket.
00:31:23
And then she's like trying to get someone else to admit it.
00:31:26
Fine I'll take it out and they're like you did it.
00:31:29
I think she also lost the other lantern right like yeah right yeah and then she a lot can be talked up to her.
00:31:40
But the thing like where this show messes with my head is she's wakes up in the middle of the night follows the sky the man with no eyes almost to her death and van had to save her and then the camera pans down and shows that one of those symbols is on the tree next to her.
00:31:58
And they didn't notice that van or tie didn't see it so it just makes me okay maybe it is supernatural.
00:32:06
I mean I guess that any of this could be coincidence but it's interesting.
00:32:10
Yeah.
00:32:11
I just love when when Van says trying to help her figure out how she you know went sleepwalking and was there something on your mind last night before you went to sleep but she goes
00:32:24
and she says she's still talking to Jackie and Van says well you're not a picture of normal see yourself.
00:32:31
Yeah I like that is absolutely true.
00:32:35
You can always count on Van to sort of like just lighten the mood a little bit.
00:32:39
Yeah in a way that's very real though I just love Van.
00:32:44
I like her voice and her style and her personality.
00:32:49
Yeah.
00:32:51
Right Penny.
00:32:53
So I want to talk about Lottie and the specifically the conversations between Lottie and adult Lottie and adult Nat.
00:33:04
So after Natalie doesn't you know collaborate Lottie last week in the head with the stick and you know Lottie tells us she has a message from Travis.
00:33:14
Next see them like just walking together through the intentional community that Lottie has created with the purple people eaters which is what Alex called them on the live show the other day.
00:33:26
I think it's perfect.
00:33:28
I think it's wonderful.
00:33:30
Yeah.
00:33:31
And you know and Lottie's giving her the whole like we're here to live our best selves on you know new age sort of generic new age stuff.
00:33:40
And then we just see the littlest edge of Lottie when that woman gets first movie wrong and she's all like if I wanted Ashwaganda like she was just.
00:33:51
It was edgy and the woman seemed like afraid of her and I was like all right there's there's more to Lottie than like the first facade that we see right like it all looks nice on the surface but.
00:34:01
Now my understanding of cults is that there's always levels and tears right so like we were just seeing like the first two levels not what happens when you get to the high levels of the cult.
00:34:12
But specifically I wanted to talk about Lottie's version of Travis's death and the way she described it to Nat.
00:34:19
She said that Travis called her and now in the past we've seen teen Travis and teen Lottie developing a connection so that seems believable now.
00:34:29
So he called her and he said that the wilderness had followed him and that he wanted to basically be a flat liner right get as close to jeth as possible to get in touch with the darkness or something and he was comparing it to like van after the wolf attack how she saw something and how Lottie saw something when she was baptized I think that's what he was talking about.
00:34:49
And she tried to talk him out of it and she thought she did and then you know in the middle of the night he left and and then she arrived it's the story doesn't ring very true to me.
00:35:01
It seems real convenient for Lottie and like why did he give her his banking information that seems weird like I'm gonna know why did she know.
00:35:11
Yeah and then and I am he does a count out right away like why.
00:35:17
I mean I guess if you had to come up with a reason he thought well I don't intend to kill myself but just in case I don't know yeah it's just the one thing about it that we're like they always throw a little wrench in is she's telling Nat the whole story that you're telling you know and you and of course I think we're all thinking well unreliable narrator we don't know if we can believe any of this.
00:35:40
But then they show the part where she sees.
00:35:43
Lorily.
00:35:45
Yeah and then she turns into this ghoul and then she turns around and somehow Travis is up way higher than he was before and I'm like I don't think she's telling this part to Nat so if we're seeing it then doesn't that mean that there is at least some truth to what she's saying you know what I mean.
00:36:01
Yeah I was doing those gymnastics in my head too I was like she because I also didn't think she described the Lorily part to that and also Travis was much higher than he had been but I I don't know what was real and what wasn't I guess that's the point of that scene is that we'll find out later on down the road.
00:36:23
And she's all like I didn't kill him that I was trying to save him and my favorite line or set of lines of the episode is well that's funny because every time you try to save someone a lot of bad shit happens and look at you now 25 later in the same shits happening again only this time you're wearing a Rolex and you have all the broken toys around here who think you walk on water and calling them broken toys I just thought was really funny.
00:36:49
I've always joked with my friends that we belong on the island of misfit toys and that broken toys.
00:36:55
Yeah that's something.
00:36:57
Yeah so it really cracked me up and she's threatened to put a stop to Lottie's bullshit.
00:37:03
I have no idea how Nat thinks she's gonna accomplish that when we know that Lottie is like vastly wealthy and has power but every time I see that's what I'm saying.
00:37:13
Every time I started I started to fall for Lottie's like health and wellness, inner beauty, whatever garbage.
00:37:20
I remembered Susie's voicemail from the end of season one being like what have you gotten me into who the fuck is Lottie Matthews.
00:37:27
So like we know that something scary was happening related to Lottie and the bank account information we don't know exactly what.
00:37:34
So I'm like I'm gonna keep that in mind while she's being all like you know Roby floaty love yourself.
00:37:41
I mean so Wendy's more she's not here too bad because she's been more than one who's been like no it's not that simple it's gonna be more gray area and Lottie's gonna be complicated just like everyone else and I think she's probably gotta be right to some degree or another about that but right now they're her facade if it is a facade is that she's just a wonderful person who will help you out.
00:38:10
And so I think we're gonna find out that what it means to be more complicated than that is that it's darker than that right you gotta think.
00:38:19
Yeah.
00:38:20
Yeah there's there's more to the story definitely.
00:38:24
So Travis's death like it's interesting to me that he says the wilderness came back to haunt me which we don't know if any of this is true.
00:38:34
So I guess you have to take it all with a grain of salt but then he said the only way to confront the darkness is to get as close to death as possible and she had said back when she offered up the bare heart to the spear to the
00:38:49
forest or whatever let the darkness set us free so maybe this it it is in you it wants blood and the darkness are similar are the same and if the darkness is haunting him he's
00:39:04
either having PTSD hallucinations or he's being hunted or this is all bullshit that Lottie's saying but that when he says you know when been almost
00:39:16
died when you did you both said you saw something so to me that's like oh if that's true if he really did say that to Lottie then that suggests they didn't really see anything too definitive out there because he's like you said you saw something right you know
00:39:31
like it sounds like because it's weird because the way the show's structured that we're getting a progression of the 1996 timeline and then the current timeline but there's a lot in between that we're supposed to get in the upcoming episodes and seasons that we don't know yet so
00:39:45
they can't reveal too much when they're the adult versions are talking about what happened back then so we don't really know what Travis went
00:39:53
throughout in the woods and what he saw and what he didn't see but it sounds like he didn't see any like actual like fiery demons going around or
00:40:03
anything. Yeah that last season when that and misty we're looking at the photos and you know drew the symbol on them that was like Travis
00:40:12
didn't believe in any of this shit you know that oh yeah and then so that it's like cognitive dissonance between her saying that and then Lottie being like you want to
00:40:21
almost kill himself to be close to the darkness it's like which version of Travis is it's bullshit it's bullshit she told him to do that yeah
00:40:30
yeah the darkness I know it yeah can I just say that the casting for adult Travis I thought was great when I close in my eyes I thought it was the same actor the voice of the sauce I think it's the same one
00:40:45
that had last season I think it's the same guy yeah just right he never spoke but yeah just when that had some flashbacks of there more recent
00:40:54
relationship it looked like the same guy I didn't look it up though yeah I thought that he his looks his eyes particularly like a really look like an older version of Kevin Alves
00:41:07
that's great and by the way I'm liking Travis a lot more of this season young Travis he's being less of a douchebag I got to say yeah he is so he's more lost in
00:41:21
lost in Laudie I guess he is because there's a connection between them and it reminded me he really was but I remember last season that when Jackie had sex with him
00:41:36
Laudie told her he doesn't belong to you and so this just I'm starting to wonder what does she she think he belongs to her yeah maybe
00:41:48
yeah maybe yeah all right my turn I feel like yeah you are turn Jason yeah yeah okay okay I think it bears going a little deeper into the cult of Laudie
00:42:02
young Laudie I think is fully in I'm believing in myself whether or not it seems unusual mode you know I'm trusting in myself
00:42:15
in my instincts and she's advocating that others do the same so like when the coach said someone needs to go get Shana from the freezing meat meat shed and I think Ty gets up
00:42:28
Laudie just calmly says don't she'll come when she's ready and she's okay with letting things play out in ways that aren't comfortable for other people
00:42:36
or are unusual or even a little dark she wants to let Shana be what she is even if the others are worried and that's kind of what you were getting at
00:42:46
the second ago Daphne that Laudie has this lifetime of people trying to rain her in and now she doesn't want that for anyone else
00:42:56
she wants doesn't want people putting their constrictions on other people and even when they're out dragging Jackie's body out Laudie sees that Shana is trying to cover up the arm that she cut and she just doesn't say anything you know
00:43:14
so she's allowing that too and and she also she's so sure of herself and she has been helpful to people that people are listing to her and she barely has to say a word
00:43:25
she's been a will movement that's that's you can tell who's in charge when someone just says one little thing and everybody listens you know
00:43:35
they're playing that so well and she says you know Shana's processing and she needs our support which it sounds smart to me in a way which I'm like being inducted into the cult what am I saying
00:43:50
she's out there putting makeup on a dead body so I'm being to fully buying into Laudie and so the Laudie being so sure of herself is creepy because now we see that Nat took
00:44:07
Havie's vest out of its suitcase mirrored some of her blood on it pretended to find it in the wilderness to try to let have Travis believe Havie's dead so he can let it go
00:44:17
and Laudie sees that that she has that you know Vast or whatever she goes no I can't be Havie's alive I can feel it so she's just so sure of herself it's it makes you wonder if it is supernatural or not
00:44:34
well that ties to when she was in the car with her parents and she knew what was going on up ahead of them I've heard of that in in daily like regular life that some people are just their sensitive to that type of thing
00:44:52
and they just know you know know things and it very well could be that she's just sensitive to it and
00:45:01
but you're I mean there's a there's a line between okay I saw this car out of the corner of my eye versus I told the future I need the future you know true one is supernatural
00:45:16
I do think Havie's still alive yeah me too I do and and is it because Laudie thinks he's alive partially yeah
00:45:28
but I also think maybe Havie is the reason they get rescued I mean yeah we talked about that before yeah he could still be right I mean he's still running he's still running
00:45:40
so I'm Loddy's Loddy the modern day Loddy is talking about getting back to primal and elemental and I started thinking about that more
00:45:50
primal is about you know relating to the early stage and evolutionary development and elemental is like the basic building blocks that structures are built from or things are built from so it's like getting rid of all the social constructs that other people impose on you instead looking inward and finding your own truth and reality and nature and honoring that and living it you know I think that's she's carrying that forward from what I was just saying she's kind of what doing in the past letting people be who they are versus what other people
00:46:19
want them to be or what other people are comfortable with and and so all of that sounds good but it's also what cult leaders do you know the sky Larry Ray told people that you have something inside of you that's good and we're going to unearth that you know it's very similar sentiment you can take that and
00:46:47
abuse it you know with people and that's how you do it you have to first get them to think okay just forget what everyone else says is right you have it within you but I'm going to guide you into that you know and we can see from how Loddy is with her people like even that no she's like yeah they all worship the ground or they think you can walk on water and just the way she just the girl who brings up the
00:47:16
smooth year whatever she's just nervous around her and apologetic I mean she's nervous also because the woman who forked her hand is standing right there but she's also like nervous about Loddy
00:47:29
and so whether or not Loddy is going to abuse that because maybe not maybe she'll be completely helpful but I also think about how it's attractive for Loddy to get rid of the reality that everyone else lived by because her reality is
00:47:44
in the story she hears voices that no one else hears and just perceives things differently she sees visual hallucinations and it could be dangerous to convince people to follow the voices that if she gets a
00:47:59
frenic that it gets a frenic here's you know she heard it wants blood and decided to try to sacrifice Travis yeah and and you know that says every time you try to say someone a lot of that shit happens so
00:48:12
that suggests maybe some other bad things did happen and primal can also be dark Loddy said let the darkness set us free it could be the id like the Freudian model of the psyche that you go the super ego in the
00:48:27
id the id is the primitive and instinctive part of the mind that contains sexual and aggressive drives and hidden memories it operates on the pleasure principle
00:48:35
seeks immediate gratification of all desires wants and needs it presents from birth and does not change with time or experience it's not affected by reality logic or morality which sounds a bit like you know dark tie like I've said before
00:48:50
primal is is also about like nature and animals and it's interesting to me that the cannibal council have those bear skins with horns and now Loddy's people in the forest all had animal masks on
00:49:03
you know we didn't talk about that before so I don't know I could go more into all this stuff but I I I also don't necessarily okay so what of you I think it might have been when he said that the whole burial
00:49:18
thing was just a ceremonial thing and here Shloddy says that to now that was just therapeutic we have many therapies but he looked freaked out and I don't know if I believe her
00:49:31
I I watched it again I don't think he looked freaked out really he looks scared to be he was like I thought he looked a little unsure of what he was going to be doing but he would give out
00:49:44
give him what we just saw with the body thing I mean for all we know they were going to put him in the end cook it yeah we don't know I mean who knows maybe we don't know to me he looked almost like hypnotized or something he was using he was you know moving of his own accord
00:49:59
he appeared to be voluntarily getting into the pit yeah maybe he was just nervous because he was like you know full frontal I mean the next
00:50:08
he and people got branded voluntarily voluntarily yeah it's all about course of control yeah and influence yeah yeah he obviously had been in this
00:50:19
long enough to be influenced or it could just be like a mud bath you know it could be at this point like everything so many things about the show you have to be like well it could be evil or could be fine I still think it's kind of I
00:50:35
wouldn't want all my private parts to be exposed to yeah what lives in the dirt yeah now that's an uncomfortable I don't think so
00:50:46
as far as a lot he goes I've just been fascinated with that character from day one in fact I was thinking before it was that apparent on the show that she was going to have a lot of influence that she's going to stop taking her meds and start like taking control so yeah remember you say I'm just
00:51:06
can't wait to see our story plays out all right where are we defy your turn okay so I want to talk a little bit about doing things for what you think is someone's own good and how it will come back to
00:51:26
you later we know that Nali and Travis based on what we've heard have had a very tumultuous relationship over the two and a half decades since the they were crashed out in the wilderness I think Natalie's heart is in the right place but I think acting like
00:51:49
she is dead and going to those links when I do see her and Travis finally get together there was a part of me that was just kind of not okay just because I feel like she she's crossed the line by doing that by making it look like
00:52:07
she is dead she I think has done even more harm to their relationship than what it was when she lied about her numb the people she had slept with before because I do like I said I do think
00:52:23
I think it's going to come out and so I can't really enjoy the scenes with Natalie and Travis right now because I feel like it's a lie yeah it's going to come back around but it reminds it reminds me so much with this show of people have the best of intentions and it often doesn't end up the way that they think it's going to like Jeff wanting to solve his financial problems by black
00:52:52
mailing the girls so that he can get the money and Natalie has to sell her porch I mean it's the best of intentions he wants to take care of that without shona finding out the problem is it doesn't turn out the way that he thinks it's going to well the idea of black
00:53:12
mailing somebody for $50 is not cool. I don't think best of intentions is the way I would characterize like hiding from your wife and blackmailing her friends but he certainly didn't want to do have as much harm caused as he did.
00:53:32
Yeah I think he what I mean by best of intentions is he didn't want to involve his wife in yeah for sure his best intentions yeah for shona nah no the other way yeah yeah but keeping shona out of it and making it so that she doesn't even know what he did like trying to create this lie basically so that she doesn't know what he's up to.
00:53:58
But his intentions in the you know the whole time where to keep shona from finding out because he didn't want to cause her any pain yet he says that shona is the smartest person he knows why not ask her for help with the business like why does he have to keep it a secret from her what do we not know about either their relationship about him about her like yeah I mean on a metal level it's so that they could have an awesome story.
00:54:27
Yeah yeah yeah but within the story I would say maybe because he would hurt his ego to admit that he had fucked up that much so he wanted to try to handle it like a man without having to go to her and be vulnerable.
00:54:42
He should have just gone to Jackie's parents.
00:54:45
Yeah he probably could have they would have given him the money and kept it a secret from shona of course because they don't think shona yeah she does shine as nothing for the family.
00:54:56
Yeah yeah no what the thing is was shona because she is so smart I wonder if Jeff was just thinking here's another instance of me fucking out and I'm going to have to tell her what I've done because I get that impression from him that he's he's fucked up a few times yeah yeah like he's he's been different you know there are things that have come out that he's done he's sensitive about the store.
00:55:22
The about his success because when she called him and he's like what did you say chicken nuggets or I forget but he's so proud that he made a great sale that right but when they have their little sex.
00:55:35
The role play thing and she said I'm returning this arm are he's like why would you be returning it.
00:55:42
Super sensitive about that.
00:55:46
Some of the questions I have to why didn't shona go to college like what was the situation that she ended up not going because she's obviously very intelligent and she should have gone but I you know I'm interested in where we go with that and also what happens when she gets back from you know when they're rescued and comes back without Jackie and what the dynamic looks like for her and Jeff.
00:56:11
I have a relationship that she decided to live Jackie's life for Jackie since Jackie wasn't going to be able to.
00:56:19
She just took on a lot of goals that makes sense that makes sense.
00:56:24
Bingo again yeah but that's that's having the best of intentions to sort of live this life it also plays into that whole psychodon I was mentioning before about not knowing Jackie ends and she begins.
00:56:38
Yeah exactly yeah I think yeah I think shona spent a lot of time wanting to be Jackie wanting Jackie's life but also resenting Jackie and not wanting to be her friend living shadow and then living in the shadow and I think she was so conflicted yeah she was jealous and.
00:57:00
She also felt superior right like Jackie or ghost Jackie or who's nation Jackie says in this episode you know you're not the only smart one you just like to think you are yeah and.
00:57:13
You know that shona was probably always like oh well I'm the student and you're the like popular girl like she sort of rationalized it in her head and she also was like well I'll go to brown and.
00:57:26
I'll have this intellectual life and Jackie can go to Rutgers and be mediocre and that's fine and she thought she had a plan to get out of this toxic friendship yeah and to differentiate herself in a way that put us gave her because she feels like in a one down position with Jackie.
00:57:44
Right all the time and but I mean this whole thing it it the way she's processing all of this with Jackie's corpse and everything and it's really fascinating and the I she has this love hate relationship like I had a friend I think forget if I've mentioned this in on the podcast but I was much younger like second and third grade I had this friend who.
00:58:08
Was kind of one of the popular kids in school and I lived right next door to him and we were good friends but he was very dominant and domineering and I admired him but resented him and after a while I just got really sick of being in a one down position so I started.
00:58:27
Confronting him about things he would lie all the time he told me he kid he killed a kid with a throwing star.
00:58:35
So then after I can it was nerve-racking but then our relationship changed and it wasn't the same after that but anyway I guess what I'm getting at is I can relate to being in a front I think we all can to being in a friendship kind of like this but.
00:58:51
With Sean and Jackie it feels pathologically extreme which is fun for a show like this you know things are extreme and so to the point where Sean is eating her ear and having sex with her boyfriend as you know she's.
00:59:07
Trying to process all of this with her imaginary version of Jackie and Jackie says you slept with him because you wanted to feel like what it would be like to be me and that reminds me back when she was sleeping with Jeff in the car and she said tell me love me even if you know I won't hold you to it and she it's exactly what she say like yeah I want you to treat me as if I'm Jackie.
00:59:33
Well I think to the whole conversation that she has with Jackie especially in this episode I just get the impression that Sean is trying to reconcile with herself she's eating Jackie's ear and she wants to eat more of her yeah not because she wants.
00:59:51
Because she's starving basically and she's trying to reconcile give herself permission and it's like she wants Jackie's permission so they'll you know banter back and forth about.
01:00:03
Well where's my ear and well there's not enough food and.
01:00:08
She's starving for food but also she says that's not what you're hungry for and I think that's more about this psychodrama of her being starving for the kind of power and attention and whatever else that Jackie gets.
01:00:23
And and that's why I really like what Penny said about her just taking over Jackie's life afterwards and when Jackie goes Jackie said you know Jeff only had sex with you because I made you into someone else saying you know she put the makeup.
01:00:37
On her to make her look better than she really was that really speaks to want to show us fears that she's not good enough in in enough herself to attract somebody which I think is one of the reasons why she freaked out on Adam because you know when Kelly suggested why would this guy be with you she's like he's with me because he likes me she like got triggered by that right and then as soon as she thought maybe I can't trust him then that just got her like really triggered like because that's what she's worried about that she's not good enough in in and of herself and that she's not good enough in.
01:01:06
And then she needs something else like and I think too that the whole thing about bringing Jackie into her like eating her ear and then actually eating more of her it sort of is like that old what's that old Indian thing about eat your enemies hard and you bring their spirit into or something like that the strength something like that.
01:01:27
Yeah, I think there's several cultures that believe that believe that like it feels like part of your enemy yeah it's like yeah and this feels like a version of that and she is sort of a frenemy and and I think one difference between adult Shana and young Shana young Shana is more withdrawn for the most part like she'll sometimes lash out but mostly keeps to the shadows kind of and hides everything but and I guess the
01:01:55
adult Shana hides a lot too but adult Shana just seems more fierce you know and maybe you could say that she took that part of Jackie into herself so not only is she living Jackie's life by being with Jeff and and being you know Jackie is supposed to be his wife now she is but also parts of her personality are being expressed through Shana now.
01:02:17
It's interesting because so far in the first two episodes of this season we haven't seen the main four cast members or characters the adult versions interacting with each other.
01:02:30
They haven't connected yet yeah only that misty Shana scene.
01:02:35
Yeah and misty calls Natalie and hasn't heard back yet so all of these things are happening to them and the others have no idea.
01:02:46
They just have no idea that it's happening like that Taiyis is really going off the deep end or that Shana is burning things in the backyard because of the ramifications of what they did to Adam and then going off to the studio and messing with paintings or whatever they really she really need a misty for that.
01:03:11
But they haven't really interacted yet so I'm interested when they do all come back together what's what's going to happen.
01:03:21
One last thing before we move on.
01:03:24
Lottie takes the necklace off of Jackie and gives it to Shana puts it on Shana's neck.
01:03:29
Yeah so that you know as far as watching where the necklace goes it's now with Shana.
01:03:35
Probably most listeners remember but just to refresh your memory this heart necklace I'm presuming is the same one was on Pit Girl in the first episode of the series when she you know got driven into this pit of spikes and then we saw we've seen it change hands a few times always between Jackie and Shana right.
01:03:56
Yeah so far so now Shana has it.
01:04:10
Yeah it's just this is what the show is done it's created the water crew the moment of the week basically I think but not everyone is back in the office meeting at water coolers so that's why they what it what are they.
01:04:26
That's right Pit Girl what else did you say.
01:04:29
Purple people eaters is anything and you see and they're queen yeah we need like you can have so many band names from this.
01:04:39
Yeah did you have a guy.
01:04:41
Pit Girl in the antler queen yeah did you know yeah.
01:04:46
Yeah Pit Girl in the antler queens could be an all girl band yeah just saying.
01:04:52
Okay I think it's Penny's turn it is so a little bit more about Lottie or because of Lottie.
01:05:02
She's like it's not purple it's Heliotrop we make the die ourselves from the healing flowers and then that is all like deep.
01:05:11
So it looks up Heliotropes and dating back to the 16th century in Europe there was something called the doctrine of signatures and it prescribed various flower parts as like medicinal for body parts that that it either resembled or that they thought they acted like that body part.
01:05:31
So like if something kind of looked like I don't know an eye they would think that would help with I injuries or vision problems so they thought that because Heliotrop flowers have this capacity where they move as the sun moves throughout the day to follow the sun so they're always facing the pedals are always facing the sun.
01:05:52
So at the time in the 16th century they believed that breathing your vertebrae and your heart were all under the control of the sun so if you had any problems in those areas they would give you Heliotrop.
01:06:05
The problem is that Heliotrop is toxic and very harmful if ingested and causes permanent liver damage.
01:06:15
Aside from that it's great. It is effective for like topical like tinctures and ointments for like skin problems but not you never eat it.
01:06:26
Also like it's really beautiful but like if you have pets don't plant it in your garden because if they eat it it'll give them liver damage and you know if you love your pet I assume you do.
01:06:36
The name comes from the flowers ability to move throughout the day like to face the sun it's like Heliotrop. Helios is the Greek god of the sun and it's traditionally a symbol of devotion and eternal love coming from the behavior of it facing the sun.
01:06:56
It can also mean resilience and passion. These meetings also create connections with fire such as passion felt for another person.
01:07:05
Meetings connected with the fire element include authority, enthusiasm, motivation, purification and creativity.
01:07:12
In the 5th century a Greek philosopher named Pro-Klus I hope that's correct.
01:07:19
Theorize that Heliotrop flowers turned with the sun because they were praying to the gods and I thought that was sort of an interesting point when you think about like Lottie and where her beliefs have come from and how she sort of created her own religion.
01:07:35
Heliotrop seems to have some symbolism for her. She was very proud of it.
01:07:38
Purple is also typically associated with royalty that is because it has always been a very difficult and delicate die in all the different ways that people have created purple die it's the hardest to maintain it fades the fastest and it's expensive so only really like rich people could afford to have anything purple.
01:08:01
I think I've heard about that. Purple is the color of royalty. That's why I have purple hair. It's natural.
01:08:10
It's amazing.
01:08:15
Yeah, I really like that moment.
01:08:19
She said it wasn't purple. It's Heliotrop from the healing plants.
01:08:22
I always enjoy Natalie's sarcasm. It's just not deep. Yeah.
01:08:28
She wasn't happy because her assistant or whoever her disciple put Makarute in the smoothie or whatever instead of Ashwaganda.
01:08:41
She said I want to be I want to increase my focus not my libido and I looked at up Makarute is Peruvian root used to increase libido and Ashwaganda is an Indian shrub used in our medic healing to increase energy and focus.
01:08:55
And I thought it was impressive that she could identify that just by the smell.
01:09:01
And all that stuff like from one perspective it's like how pretentious but another it's kind of cool. You know the you it's healing you try to find things that are healing and you really be intentional about it.
01:09:15
So body is very intuitive. She's very in tune with the world. I think in her surroundings.
01:09:22
Yeah.
01:09:24
Anything else Penny?
01:09:26
No. About purple. Purple penny. Okay. I wonder why I want to talk about I'll talk about misty and Walter a little bit.
01:09:37
So Walter what's his screen name?
01:09:41
Putting the second forensics putting the sick and forensics.
01:09:46
You know wants to help her figure out how to get footage from this hotel camera and they go back and forth a little bit online and then he he tracks her down to her nursing home right.
01:09:59
And I guess he hired an elderly actor or brought in a friend or something to pretend that it was his mother and he was scoping out the nursing home.
01:10:07
He could. Yeah. I'm clear if that was like actually his mother or just yeah. Yeah.
01:10:13
That's since I mean this whole thing felt like a huge playful flirtation to me.
01:10:19
He he went kind of smile that air as he walked by and then he left this note on her food and he was just showing off how clever he was that he could find out right where to leave the note and that it needed to be looked at with a black light and it was like clever and playful and challenging in a fun way.
01:10:36
And I just wonder how long it'll be before she kills him.
01:10:43
I can't wait for them to meet and actually interact.
01:10:49
So much needed comedy relief that we need in the show.
01:10:54
Yeah. It's to process all the terrible things. It's fun.
01:10:57
So he finds out there's a guy who lived at this hotel because she's trying to still figure out what happened to not so he finds out there was that the cameras there just for show it doesn't even do anything.
01:11:07
But there was a guy who lived there for three months and so presumably they can question him and see if he knows anything but they he's convinced him that he's an FBI guy and he's going there to interrogate him and would not like to come and be his I mean misty like to come and be his teammate.
01:11:22
So hopefully we'll see that next season. I'm looking for I mean episode. I'm looking forward to see that is some citizen detective meet cute right there.
01:11:31
Yeah, that's right.
01:11:32
I'm so excited. The way the whole thing where he's yelling his mother if that's even his mother through the nursing home and talking about well she can't have this and she must have this and is being so demanding.
01:11:48
I'm like you've got a little bit of misty in you and then also he's the way he's dressed. It's just I just can't wait for them to get together.
01:11:59
What would you write? I don't remember shorts and socks and she like it's dorky dorky.
01:12:08
Yeah, dorky but self-possessed like her. Yes, it's perfect. I can yeah maybe I'm looking forward to it.
01:12:16
This is true love. Maybe misty's found him or he's found her and they can what?
01:12:22
Kidnap people take them to the basement to watch them and get them together.
01:12:26
Yeah, but I always have to remind myself about because often definitely you'll be like yeah people don't give misty enough credit and all this and I'm like you're so right but also she's a psychopath.
01:12:38
Yeah, she is.
01:12:39
Yeah, but she doesn't you know what she doesn't pretend really to be anything else. I mean misty she was born to be this. This is who she is.
01:12:50
Even psychopaths need love.
01:12:53
I mean, yeah, it's like it's hard to say my poker face cliff.
01:12:59
Yeah, she killed this woman. This is a woman.
01:13:03
Yeah, I know it's so it's so hard to watch her murder's bad. It's hard to murder is bad. I'm aware Jason you've taught me this.
01:13:13
Does one of it sure I didn't know before but yeah murder is bad. You learn a lot.
01:13:20
You really do. I feel so bad though because she I don't think misty deserves all of the animosity that she gets like in the 95 timeline.
01:13:35
I get the mushroom thing but I still don't blame her completely for that that honestly. Mari should not have taken them without asking first.
01:13:43
Yeah, but true they're mistreating her like she's just dragging it out right like she made a mistake and they've been punished.
01:13:53
Yeah, because she's kind of person that well in the world of the cutthroat world of teenagers.
01:14:02
If you have a certain vibe you're more likely to get bullied not saying that's good but it happens and misty has that vibe.
01:14:09
Yeah, and also whenever you're in a group and you're like I know this from living in a large group of house where there was a lot of roommates.
01:14:18
If there's one person that you can single out as like the enemy it makes all the tensions between the other members of the group seem like not that big of a deal.
01:14:28
Yeah, so if you have like a calm and faux so they all agree that misty sucks it makes it easier for them to get along with each other.
01:14:36
Yeah, and it's horrible but that's what happens.
01:14:39
Yeah, and if a kid is weird especially if he's unusual then that's going to be a man for that kind of thing or she.
01:14:48
Yeah, I think I think unusual is a better word than weird.
01:14:51
Yeah, because I think you know there's this preconceived notion that there's normal and then there's weird.
01:14:59
And I just think the world's a much better place when there are people that are all different types out there.
01:15:07
Yeah, like those spooky people who destroy airplane transponders when you're playing crashes.
01:15:15
Yeah, well, I just think weird is the wrong word for misty.
01:15:19
Yeah, I like hot it.
01:15:21
Yeah, psychotic is the word.
01:15:24
No, because you got to think about her on two different on two different levels like if you take out the part about the truly psychotic stuff she did then you can feel like yeah they need to give her a break stop pulling this poor girl.
01:15:39
She's just a little different you know and we know kids like that and I remember kids like that in my school that I felt bad for.
01:15:47
And then you add in this other stuff that she's done like even back then she broke that whatever that thing was that would have probably transponder.
01:15:56
Yeah, like unforgettable.
01:15:58
She deserved way worse than what she got if they had known about that.
01:16:02
Yeah, I don't think anyone knows about that, but if they find out, I'm surprised she's I don't think they ever found out because she's alive.
01:16:10
Yeah, I bet you they'll find out sometime during the show and that's why she's ostracized the way that she is as an adult.
01:16:18
No, she's still not yeah, I mean, she's not friends with them now maybe they'll find out now.
01:16:25
At some point they could yeah, I'm sure they will if they if that doesn't we don't get to see that on screen.
01:16:31
I feel like that's a missed opportunity.
01:16:34
Okay, where are we? I just did Walter and Misty, so I think it's your turn, Daphne if you have any more.
01:16:40
I do. So, Callie, the psycho daughter from hell, although I'm trying really hard to empathize with her and figure out exactly what's going on to make her the way that she is.
01:16:57
And I'm wondering if part of it is because she's got a way of looking at her life and expecting it to stay the same and now that she realizes and knows what parents have done and how crazy things are.
01:17:10
If she's just worried that her world's going to come crashing down and she's going to be all alone because she does she has stirred up troubles.
01:17:18
She's the one that told Shona, well, Adam has no presence online and I still think that that's something that they may have to do.
01:17:26
They may have to address at some point and she goes and gets that license out of the fire and she's constantly talking to her mother about, you know, it's not fair what you did to dad and the cheating and and all of that.
01:17:44
And Shona is really trying to make an effort to connect with her and she's just not really budging on it.
01:17:52
But then she comes and saves the day when Kevin, which we saw Kevin in this episode, is there to question Shona, Callie comes in to save the day or at least she thinks she does.
01:18:07
I think it only succeeded in making Kevin think Callie knows something.
01:18:13
I don't think it like long term saved anyone.
01:18:16
I think it just was.
01:18:18
But she tried it on it.
01:18:22
And then this cop, aka Jake, was the fake name that he gave at the bar is getting all this information out of Callie.
01:18:33
So Callie is not as smart as she thinks she is because she wouldn't have been confirming information like she did about the cheating and the issues her parents are having.
01:18:47
But I guess realizing that Kevin actually knows that something is going on there.
01:18:54
I mean, Shona didn't really think she could hide the fact that they text each other a lot.
01:19:00
Right, like me did she?
01:19:01
Is she that oblivious about technology?
01:19:04
Like we all know like the cloud, like everything's backed up online.
01:19:09
Don't people know that?
01:19:11
Well, she did go.
01:19:14
And Jeff went to the art studio with no gloves.
01:19:18
Yeah, I mean, I thought Shona was infinitely smarter than the way she's behaved in these first two episodes.
01:19:26
Yeah.
01:19:27
So Callie, she breaks up with Kyle and that scene in the bedroom felt very American beauty to me.
01:19:37
I wonder if that was on purpose for this time.
01:19:40
Oh, that's what it was.
01:19:41
Yeah, I did like that.
01:19:42
My parents are assholes and only think about themselves.
01:19:45
That might be a direct quote.
01:19:46
I don't know.
01:19:47
Then she, you know, complains to him that like they don't even know she's gone and they don't pay attention to her or whatever.
01:19:52
And then when her mom comes and asks her to go shopping, she's like, no, I don't want to be like.
01:19:59
That's so Callie.
01:20:00
She's just like back and forth all the time.
01:20:01
But she broke up with Kyle and I was wondering last episode when she told him, don't be so clingy when he didn't want to leave when she said she had to study.
01:20:11
What that's about and this time she breaks up with him.
01:20:17
He says, you know, maybe it's a good thing your parents aren't paying attention to you so we can do it every want.
01:20:22
And he goes, you're such a child.
01:20:24
And immediately after he's like, my mom wants to know if we want chocolate pancakes or something.
01:20:28
I thought it was really funny.
01:20:29
All right, after she called him a child.
01:20:30
But I think it comes off like he's just too easy.
01:20:35
He's too available.
01:20:37
And she like people sometimes want what they can't have her what we can't have is more exciting.
01:20:44
We get bored with what's easy easily available, especially when we're younger.
01:20:47
And also she's like she's like her mother.
01:20:53
She's flirting with the sky at the bar, you know.
01:20:57
And she's being she the way she spoke to him very much sounded like Shana talking to Adam to me.
01:21:05
Yeah.
01:21:06
And kind of alluringly confrontational.
01:21:10
So I think that's on purpose.
01:21:12
They're making it you know as much as we don't want to turn into our parents.
01:21:15
We so often do.
01:21:18
So and she didn't even know right that he was a police officer.
01:21:21
So she was laughing.
01:21:23
She just thought he was a dude at the bar.
01:21:25
Yeah, of course.
01:21:26
Yeah.
01:21:27
But what I know she said she is in her last semester at Rutgers.
01:21:32
But that's a lie right.
01:21:34
She's a teenager and she has a fake ID.
01:21:36
She's in high school.
01:21:37
Yeah.
01:21:38
Yeah.
01:21:39
That's what I thought.
01:21:40
Did either of you think that Alana might not be real?
01:21:45
No.
01:21:46
Like the number of times that Callie has been.
01:21:48
Oh, she's out of Lona's.
01:21:49
She's out of Lona's.
01:21:50
She's out of Lona's.
01:21:51
I was like, is that just what she says?
01:21:53
And then she just got like, I thought you meant it.
01:21:56
Yeah.
01:21:57
Was it like ghost a lot of.
01:21:58
Yeah.
01:21:59
No, no, no.
01:22:00
I just thought like when we saw it, Alana, I was like, oh, there is an Alana.
01:22:06
It's not just like what she calls going to Kyle's.
01:22:09
It's like Jenny Piccolo from Happy Days.
01:22:11
I don't know if anybody knows what I'm talking about.
01:22:13
Was Jenny Piccolo?
01:22:14
I don't know.
01:22:15
Joni always mentioned Jenny Piccolo for like seven seasons and then they finally hired an actress
01:22:19
to play her best friend.
01:22:23
So anyway, I think I like it.
01:22:26
Like they're bringing Callie into it more and I think it's pretty fun to watch.
01:22:32
But yeah, the effect on the plot is that she's making it worse for her mom because she confirmed
01:22:39
to this undercover officer that her mom had an affair and makes him think, well, that could be
01:22:43
Adam.
01:22:44
Let's get her.
01:22:45
And I think this guy probably I always think this, but anyone who gets too close to finding
01:22:52
out what Shana did is maybe not going to be around much longer.
01:22:57
No, they're not.
01:22:59
And I still, because we talked about it last season, someone's fan theory that Callie is actually
01:23:05
Piccolo and they go back.
01:23:07
It won't get out of my head.
01:23:09
Like it's just something that just has taken up residence there.
01:23:13
Like we think it's so and so or so and so and it's going to be somebody completely different, like Callie.
01:23:18
Yeah.
01:23:19
You know, it's.
01:23:20
Maybe.
01:23:21
Yeah, it just seems weird.
01:23:23
Yeah, maybe other.
01:23:25
But cannibal counsel is adult, Shana and adult tie.
01:23:30
They chase Shana's daughter into the pit.
01:23:32
Oh, that's so creepy.
01:23:34
That is very.
01:23:35
No, it's crazy, right?
01:23:37
That's not what happened.
01:23:39
It's just.
01:23:40
Yeah.
01:23:41
Shana's like, take this necklace and run.
01:23:45
Yeah.
01:23:51
Yeah, when Shana is trying to tell Callie why she lies to the cops, I mean, that was pathetic, lying.
01:24:00
And Callie's like, so you lied to be a feminist?
01:24:05
And then Shana goes, no, the opposite.
01:24:07
And I'm like, what?
01:24:08
Like even I was like, no, Shana, you've lost me.
01:24:11
Like I love Shana even after everything.
01:24:14
I still am kind of team Shana.
01:24:16
But I was like, be better at lying.
01:24:18
You've got to, this is the goal you need to develop.
01:24:21
Please be better at lying because you are struggling.
01:24:25
I did it for your father.
01:24:26
That seems pretty transparently looking for some sympathy.
01:24:30
Yeah.
01:24:31
Well, then she asked if she needs a lawyer.
01:24:34
When Kevin said, well, I might have some more questions and she's just like, and then she said the thing.
01:24:38
I'm really into a lawyer.
01:24:40
That everyone says when they're lying.
01:24:42
I guess I've seen too many police shows.
01:24:44
Yeah.
01:24:45
Yeah, that that line.
01:24:46
Everyone knows that's a lie.
01:24:48
Yeah.
01:24:49
Oh, man.
01:24:51
All right.
01:24:52
Got any more, Penny?
01:24:54
Yeah.
01:24:55
I rewatched episode one once it was released to everyone so that I could watch it on my really big TV
01:25:04
and set up my teeny tiny laptop.
01:25:08
And I noticed a bunch of new stuff.
01:25:10
At the airport, you can definitely see that.
01:25:13
And you can hear someone calling, "Taisa, Taisa."
01:25:16
So they were definitely in the group that was being rescued.
01:25:19
Jeff's furniture store looks like it should be going out of business.
01:25:23
It's like everything in it is beige and there's like nothing on the walls.
01:25:28
I'm like, Jeff, no wonder.
01:25:30
You do need to bring your wife in to help decorate this mess.
01:25:33
Yeah, it's ugly.
01:25:35
I wonder if the song that Crystal was singing, "The Glory of Love" has some underlying meaning.
01:25:43
And I haven't figured out what it might be, but maybe some of our listeners know.
01:25:50
The tree catching on fire when they were grilling the journals.
01:25:54
Now feels like foreshadowing for the tree over the funeral pyre dumping the snow.
01:26:00
When Jeff was in the car, like head banging to the Poppa Roach song,
01:26:04
he kept flashing on that creepy picture of Shawna where you could like see your jaw and everything,
01:26:09
her bones, that was extremely creepy, but he flashed on it like four or five times.
01:26:15
And we didn't talk about the map last week.
01:26:17
The map that Natalie is creating.
01:26:19
So I got a better look at it.
01:26:21
The cabin is in the center of the map and they've gone seven miles in each direction.
01:26:26
And there are seven paper tiles across and five tall.
01:26:34
So that's how big the map is.
01:26:36
And the section that she added showed what I think was elevation.
01:26:40
That was oval, like a contour map.
01:26:43
And there was, it said deer tracks.
01:26:47
And then it sort of panned.
01:26:50
The camera panned over and let us see the part of the map where the plane crash was.
01:26:55
And there was like a little cute drawing of the plane.
01:26:58
And there was some kind of labeling that said like something happy valley or small, something valley.
01:27:05
And if we just didn't talk about it last time, I thought we should give it a little bit of time.
01:27:10
Yeah, pretty cool that they're doing that.
01:27:13
But yeah, absolutely.
01:27:14
I found it hard to believe they could do such a good job like that, but maybe.
01:27:19
Yeah.
01:27:20
You know what I mean?
01:27:21
Just like one square at a time that they perfectly fit together and stuff.
01:27:24
Yeah, yeah.
01:27:25
It looks good.
01:27:26
It looks a lot better than it should, but it's TV.
01:27:30
Yeah, it's cool.
01:27:31
Good idea.
01:27:32
Okay, I have one more big point.
01:27:34
It's not that big.
01:27:35
It's just, I just wanted to call attention that I was liking this episode.
01:27:40
But then the last three scenes, they just kind of kept amping it up and punch, punch, punch.
01:27:47
Like Travis and Nat are having sex with Lodi.
01:27:53
He's imagining Lodi kind of blowing like she's divine and then, and then she's watching them.
01:28:00
So it's all sort of twisted.
01:28:02
And then that's interspersed with the camera outside panning down and the snow flopping down on Jackie's body.
01:28:13
And right after that scene, that's crazy, right?
01:28:18
We see that.
01:28:19
That's crazy.
01:28:20
Then we see Simone get the phone call saying that Sammy's been at school the whole time and
01:28:24
that was like, oh my God.
01:28:27
She was hallucinating it.
01:28:28
She called him out here.
01:28:30
That's so messed up.
01:28:31
Like it kind of blown away.
01:28:32
And then they crashed into a car.
01:28:34
So it's like just when you think, oh wow, they got me with that way.
01:28:38
And it's like, well, holy shit. And now you tell me that it's actually dark tie that did that on purpose.
01:28:43
That makes it even more of a holy shit moment.
01:28:46
And then right after that, I'm all tense and worked up by all this stuff.
01:28:50
And that would have been a crazy ending in and of itself just so much stimulation in a short amount of time.
01:28:57
And then they show the whole cannibalism scene.
01:28:59
And I'm like, God, I can't take this.
01:29:01
Man, it's too much.
01:29:03
But it's so good.
01:29:04
They must have had fun writing this.
01:29:06
That's why we have this weekly podcast.
01:29:08
So we all can process through it.
01:29:10
It's our therapy session.
01:29:12
Yeah.
01:29:13
We just have to.
01:29:14
And Alex is always saying that the last 10 minutes of this show are always the most after.
01:29:20
That's true.
01:29:21
I forgot it last season.
01:29:22
I was like, okay, we're going to get some major stuff coming up here.
01:29:26
All right.
01:29:27
Any more Daphne?
01:29:28
Yeah, I got a couple things.
01:29:31
I wanted to talk about the music.
01:29:33
They picked some interesting songs to go with some of the happenings.
01:29:39
Tyusa going through her sleep deprivation or trying to stay awake basically.
01:29:44
I mean, she probably could have talked to Nancy from Nightmare and Elm Street to get some more ideas.
01:29:51
But inertia creeps by massive attack is a song from 98.
01:29:56
That was playing during the time that Tyusa was trying to stay awake.
01:30:01
Lady in the lake by Burzum is playing during the sexy in with Natalie and Travis and the snow falling.
01:30:10
Burzum is a band I had never heard of, but then we had one of those music share nights.
01:30:15
And I think Jeff brought it brought them up.
01:30:18
It's a very strange song and a very strange band.
01:30:22
And then during the feeding frenzy at the end, climbing up the walls by radio head.
01:30:30
So yeah, those are a couple of music notes.
01:30:35
I do have a couple other things, but do you guys have anything else?
01:30:38
I just have a couple of little notes.
01:30:40
Let's try taking turns.
01:30:43
We'll each like go around and do one, one note each.
01:30:46
Okay. That sounds good.
01:30:48
My first one is just that I, we don't know for sure, but maybe that's it for Ella pernell.
01:30:53
I kind of hope not.
01:30:55
I'm sure we're going to see like ghost Jackie some more some more.
01:31:00
I'm sure because Shawna was seeing her in 2021 as well.
01:31:05
Right? She saw her at her parents house and she started the bridge.
01:31:09
We could see her more when they get rescued and when you dive into that a little bit more.
01:31:14
Maybe Shawna will have conversations with her once she's back in you know T and Shawna.
01:31:20
We'll have those conversations.
01:31:22
All right. So we saw a little bit more of the three new characters, Crystal Melissa and Jen.
01:31:29
I've read a lot of people are thinking they've just been brought in to be food.
01:31:34
I don't know that that's the case.
01:31:37
We know at least one of them.
01:31:40
Yeah, we know at least one of them was around last season.
01:31:43
Yeah.
01:31:45
I hope that that's not the case.
01:31:48
But they need to flesh out the cast. Oh Jason.
01:31:55
They did.
01:31:56
Yeah, you're right.
01:31:58
At the very end of the adult Nat storyline, she falls asleep at the like cult, whatever that place is.
01:32:07
Because she can't leave until morning and she has visions and dreams of what looked to me like an emergency room.
01:32:14
You know when somebody like first gets there and they're like giving them oxygen it was all from the POV of the patient.
01:32:20
So I was like is that Nat like after an OD or suicide attempt or at the rescue or you know it was weird that she had the memory of it and then we didn't see anymore.
01:32:32
Yeah, totally out of the blue. I have no idea what that was.
01:32:36
That makes me question.
01:32:38
Can Natalie not call anyone to tell them why she is.
01:32:42
I mean, or is it that she just doesn't have anyone she wants to call?
01:32:46
Yeah, who would you call me?
01:32:48
Maybe.
01:32:51
I mean, Misty would come.
01:32:53
Of course she would. She's Misty.
01:32:55
Yeah.
01:32:56
She desperately wants Nat to like her.
01:32:58
Oh yeah, she'd be there in a second.
01:33:00
Yeah.
01:33:02
I've a couple of funny ones when Misty was writing about she didn't want to be sent on a on a goose chase or whatever.
01:33:11
And I started baking a note.
01:33:14
It's wild goose chase isn't it?
01:33:16
And then she.
01:33:17
She corrected it.
01:33:19
Added it in her comment.
01:33:20
Yeah, wild goose chase.
01:33:21
Yeah.
01:33:22
That's funny.
01:33:23
And then when the outside in the snow, a couple of the girls are playing swords and one says prepare to die and it made me wonder if she was quoting Princess bride.
01:33:33
Yeah, that was Misty and Christophe.
01:33:35
Probably.
01:33:37
Yeah.
01:33:40
All right. Well, there's a mom over Nally and Travis are going up into the mountains or going on another excursion.
01:33:47
Nally's been watching these bonding moments between Travis and Laudie and I think that she's probably just thinking I got to get him away from here and all of this.
01:33:56
But there's one thing that he says where she missed the blessing which I'm assuming is when they drink Laudie's blood.
01:34:04
And he mentioned that he views the symbol of it to keep him from being so closed off.
01:34:12
She thinks Nally thinks he's referring to her, but he's actually talking about himself not being so closed off.
01:34:20
Or so he says that could have just been a quick pivot.
01:34:23
But yeah, it could have.
01:34:25
But maybe this is why he's not being such a jerk this season.
01:34:29
Yeah.
01:34:30
Yeah.
01:34:31
He's more open.
01:34:32
Yeah.
01:34:33
He's learning some niceness because for however crazy Laudie might be, she is a kind person.
01:34:40
Yeah.
01:34:41
When she's not trying to have someone kill him.
01:34:44
Yeah.
01:34:45
Well, and I feel like this episode she served as more of like a not a caretaker, but she was more believe Shana alone, let Shana do what she needs to do.
01:34:55
Just trying to let everyone to just let people be and not stop them or drag them out of where they are.
01:35:04
The only way that any cult leader succeeds is if they give people things that they're emotionally craving.
01:35:10
And there's a lot of emotional need when you're stranded out in the woods here.
01:35:15
So she can make you feel at ease like she's calmed him down when he's having panic attacks.
01:35:23
Yeah.
01:35:24
Then emotions are the strongest motivation of anything.
01:35:30
So yeah, she's really good at.
01:35:33
If you believe like then she can help you feel better.
01:35:38
So the only other note I had is I had said, you know, I was talking about the nicknames and how Van for Vanessa and Ty for Tidey's Exeter.
01:35:47
I said a lot was short for Laudie, but then I was reminded of this episode that her really was actually Charlotte.
01:35:54
Yes.
01:35:55
So Laudie is actually short for Charlotte.
01:35:59
Yeah.
01:36:00
Anything else?
01:36:02
No, that's all that I had.
01:36:05
I don't remember who said it last week, but somebody said something about Jeff probably made copies of the journals and I can't stop thinking about.
01:36:15
I know.
01:36:16
I know.
01:36:17
But I just keep being like, yes, copy somewhere.
01:36:22
Like I just, because why else would he have taken them back out of the safe?
01:36:27
All of them even like maybe he needed one to like make sure he got the symbol right?
01:36:31
He took all of them out of safe.
01:36:34
I mean, it was just so we would know that they were gone because it was like.
01:36:38
If you saw a safe with two journals and instead of four, it wouldn't have been as clear as seeing an empty safe.
01:36:46
Yeah.
01:36:47
Yeah, that doesn't make sense to me.
01:36:50
I mean, sometimes they do things like that that wouldn't happen in the real world just to really look towards the motto.
01:36:57
Oh, I see.
01:36:58
So it looked towards the motto.
01:36:59
So you don't understand, you know, oh, they're gone. There's nothing in there.
01:37:09
I think personally, I think there's a lot of things like Adam not having an online presence.
01:37:17
I don't think we're going to.
01:37:19
You don't.
01:37:20
I think we mine.
01:37:21
I think we mine.
01:37:22
Who sent the postcards?
01:37:24
I think it was Jeff.
01:37:25
It's all done.
01:37:27
I know, but I can be wrong.
01:37:29
We'll see.
01:37:30
I think they're on a new stuff.
01:37:32
I think so many things are connected.
01:37:34
If we're not going to realize it until we get to the point where they want us to know.
01:37:38
Yeah.
01:37:39
Listen.
01:37:41
♪ When yours forever ♪
01:37:44
♪ There is no waiting sight for us ♪
01:37:46
♪ Nothing could measure ♪
01:37:49
♪ The kind of strength inside our hearts it's all connected ♪
01:37:54
♪ We're all together ♪
01:37:56
♪ And the thought of you again ♪
01:37:59
♪ We're all connected in the sky ♪
01:38:04
♪ There is no waiting sight for us ♪
01:38:09
♪ We're all connected in the sky ♪
01:38:16
Alright, Rebecca, it's time for some news.
01:38:19
It's a ton of news out there this week because it was the premiere of the show and the stars.
01:38:26
A lot of them are on the covers of various fashion magazines.
01:38:29
There was just like so much press.
01:38:31
I couldn't possibly read all of it to you, so I just cherry picked a couple of my favorites.
01:38:36
The first is from Vanity Fair.
01:38:39
And it's an interview with Simone Kessel.
01:38:42
And the accompanying photography is by our own Jonathan Bucalil.
01:38:48
So check that out.
01:38:50
It's a...
01:38:51
That's Lottie actors, by the way.
01:38:52
Yeah, the adult Lottie star Simone Kessel.
01:38:55
And that's Jonathan who hosted Andor, the star was cast about Andor.
01:39:00
And he's done a few other podcasts throughout podcasting us.
01:39:05
So we're very proud.
01:39:06
So cool.
01:39:07
And the article is entitled Surviving Womanhood and Hollywood
01:39:12
with Yellow Jacket star Simone Kessel.
01:39:17
Lauren Ambrose, Tony Cypress, Simone Kessel, Juliet Lewis, Melanie Linsky, and Christina Ricci
01:39:22
who portrayed the grown-up versions of the characters Van, Taisa, Lottie, Natalie Shawna, and Misty respectively
01:39:28
have all worked in the entertainment industry for decades
01:39:31
and have defied bleak Hollywood odds to remain in front of the camera even in their mid to late 40s.
01:39:36
For Kessel, a New Zealander who's hopped back and forth between continents for screen roles since the 90s,
01:39:42
mainstream recognition has been more recent with their casting and showtime's smash hit Yellow Jackets
01:39:48
as well as the recent Obi-Wan Kenobi and a recurring role on our Flag Mean's Death.
01:39:53
But she's been here all along and shows like Zina Warrior Princess and Hercules the legendary journeys.
01:39:58
I think if you're an actor in New Zealand, you have to be on those shows.
01:40:02
Oh, yes.
01:40:03
I really feel like I've come into my own as an actress after working for 30 years.
01:40:08
Kessel tells Vanity Fair, "You know, I'm not new here.
01:40:11
I've been one of the ones holding up those lead actresses for so long she adds.
01:40:15
Now she's one of them playing mysterious Lottie, who has grown from the teenage Antler Queen."
01:40:20
I think that's an assumption.
01:40:22
"Played by Courtney Eaton in Yellow Jackets' earlier timeline to the charismatic leader of an intentional community,"
01:40:28
read Possible Cult, "whom Kessel warns is not all Cafftons and Sunshine."
01:40:33
Kessel first came to Hollywood in the 90s at the urging of Heath Ledger, an ex-boyfriend of hers,
01:40:38
as part of a group of anti-podian actors.
01:40:42
I don't know what that means.
01:40:43
Hanging out with Ledger.
01:40:44
It's like Australian, or I think Southern hemisphere maybe.
01:40:49
Okay.
01:40:50
Hanging out with Ledger and Joel Edgerton among others.
01:40:53
Kessel's mother is Mayori and her father is of European descent,
01:40:56
which limited her options in those days.
01:40:58
I wasn't going for lead roles in shows.
01:41:00
I was going for the smaller sidekick roles being Brown's skin, she said.
01:41:03
It means relating to Australia or New Zealand.
01:41:06
Awesome.
01:41:07
Thank you, Jason.
01:41:08
All right.
01:41:09
Now, 47 years old and still calling the Southern hemisphere her home base,
01:41:14
she's gotten married and has two sons, ages 10 and 18.
01:41:17
Working on Yellow Jackets with her family halfway around the world,
01:41:20
she says that she found a sort of sisterhood with her castmates,
01:41:23
an understanding that only comes with time and experience.
01:41:26
There were definitely days where we're all sitting in the green room,
01:41:30
Lauren, Christina, Juliet, Melanie, Tony and myself,
01:41:32
and we're like, "Look at us."
01:41:34
She says, "We've all got the same dilemmas with our kids."
01:41:37
Like, "Oh my God, who's it after school pick up from school today?"
01:41:40
And Lauren's like, "Oh my God, tell me about your teenager because my teenager."
01:41:44
It's really great to be in a room full of smart women and women
01:41:47
who have all got a story just like I have and who have all been hardworking
01:41:51
actresses for such a long time.
01:41:53
We're going from strength to strength to strength.
01:41:56
There was no fear, there was no jealousy, there was no...
01:42:00
Because we're through all of that, she adds.
01:42:02
These are just strong, intelligent women who are working actresses,
01:42:05
so that in itself was like, "Holy fuck."
01:42:08
There's a lot more to that article, but I'm going to jump to the next one,
01:42:13
because there's just so much.
01:42:15
The next one is from Nerdist, and we're going to link all these in the show notes
01:42:19
so you guys can read the full article.
01:42:21
This is an interview with Warren Cole, who plays Jeff,
01:42:24
and he doesn't get that much press, so I thought it would be great to hear from him.
01:42:28
It's a Q&A format, so Nerdist says,
01:42:31
"On Yellow Jackets, Jeff plays a role that seems familiar for a story that starts in high school.
01:42:36
He's the one-time prom king with a popular girlfriend he's secretly cheating on,
01:42:40
and maybe not the brightest ball around.
01:42:42
But throughout Yellow Jackets season one, and into the first episode of season two,
01:42:46
that archetype continues to become more complicated in his adult life.
01:42:50
We see Jeff stand up for Sean a very ardently.
01:42:53
He's one of the few characters who does actually know what happened out there in the wilderness,
01:42:57
and he takes on maybe more of his fair share of the blame for everything that happened with Adam.
01:43:02
And in season two, we see he's ready to take on Murder for Sean a.
01:43:06
That's a lot for a former prom king.
01:43:08
What do you think, Dr. Jeff, to accept everything that's kind of thrown at him
01:43:12
when he could have just had this simple life he seemed destined for?
01:43:15
And what's it like to play a character that really complicates a trope so well?
01:43:19
Warren Cole says, "Well, Jeff is the first of his kind that I've had the fortune of portraying.
01:43:24
I actually really like Jeff. I think he'd be a good guy to have on your team.
01:43:28
Maybe not the captain of the team, but definitely a team mate."
01:43:31
He's simple.
01:43:32
We view him in a certain way.
01:43:34
I'm not sure he views himself that way, or ever has really come to terms with that until he and Seanah just clear the smoke and start being honest.
01:43:42
Then these dominoes of confession start coming out.
01:43:44
And I guess the audience finds basically don't underestimate him, but also he's extremely loyal to Seanah.
01:43:51
And so he's got the qualities of a Labrador in a way.
01:43:54
He kind of sees what's in front of him, but he is quick to come to his master's defense.
01:43:58
He wants to hold his household together.
01:44:00
I think he has to come to terms with some things by the end of season one.
01:44:04
And I don't think Jeff really realized this until he had dinner, that dinner with Jackie's parents in season one,
01:44:09
where it's just this pecking party, and it's just this beating, this beatdown.
01:44:13
And it's implied that it's just this annual flagellation that these two put themselves through
01:44:18
because they feel guilty about Jackie. But he realizes somewhere in there he wakes up enough to realize,
01:44:23
"Hey, Seanah's really the target here, and by being quiet, I'm sort of complicit."
01:44:27
Her parents might think that I agree.
01:44:29
Now that Seanah and Jeff are literally partners in crime going into season two of Yellow Jackets,
01:44:34
well, he's still him, so he's still going to be fragilely optimistic about the good things.
01:44:40
But he's also got his ego, and he's got plenty of it.
01:44:43
He wants to prove he's worthy of Seanah. He wants to prove that he's an exciting partner.
01:44:48
And then that article goes on and on and on, and we'll link that in the show notes.
01:44:52
And then my favorite of the articles is from, I've never heard of this magazine before,
01:44:57
but it's like Old Billionaire Club Collective.
01:45:00
And they had an interview with somebody in the art department who talked to the creator of all the masks
01:45:08
that Lottie's cult members were wearing last episode. And here it is.
01:45:14
There's more than a touch of the wilderness about Lottie's upscale wellness center.
01:45:18
A procession of white clad animal mask wearing followers burying a naked man
01:45:23
isn't the usual accompaniment to tasteful neutrals and suburban mom wall art.
01:45:27
But production designer Margot Reddy and her props team relished the opportunity to create animal masks
01:45:34
just creepy enough to tip Lottie's present day community firmly into cult territory.
01:45:39
It's kind of like Orwell's animal farm, ready to hold Indywire.
01:45:43
She's in this seemingly non hierarchical cult, but she's still the leader.
01:45:47
The inspiration for the masks was a mix of eerily simplistic animal imagery
01:45:52
and the show notes love of organic materials.
01:45:55
Our props team were playing around with some natural materials in the props office, ready said.
01:45:59
And our props master David Goodman put some bark on his face with the eyes cut out
01:46:04
and it looked really cool in an eerie druid like way.
01:46:07
So we leaned into this pagan, creepy, anthropomorphic DIY feel.
01:46:12
Ready and her team picked simple animal shapes and used natural materials and paper mache to create the masks,
01:46:18
which had to look believably handcrafted by the cult members.
01:46:22
We kept them really eerie, really says pointing to season one inspirations.
01:46:26
But we see at the beginning the antler queen and the big mystery in the show.
01:46:30
Also in episode nine doom coming, there's this amazing aesthetic.
01:46:34
And these things are still probably in Lottie's mind, fighting yet embracing nature.
01:46:40
So they were meant to be an animal human hybrid mask made from the natural materials.
01:46:45
What's cool, it feels kind of druid-y or something.
01:46:48
Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
01:46:50
It could be beautiful, naturey, creatively inspired or like super dark.
01:46:55
Yeah, definitely.
01:46:57
Almost satanic or something.
01:46:59
There were like 30 more articles that were excellent that I could have read from.
01:47:06
But you guys get the idea.
01:47:08
Also the show broke a streaming record for Showtime, the premiere.
01:47:12
Nice.
01:47:13
Not surprising.
01:47:14
No, not at all. It's a very big hit.
01:47:16
None of us have to worry about it getting renewed.
01:47:19
Like it's picked up, everybody supports it, it's a huge hit.
01:47:22
Yeah, you know, I've looked at some of the reviews of the first six episodes.
01:47:28
And it feels like it's a little bit less enthusiastic than it was last year.
01:47:33
You know, it's still positive, but not quite as like, you're like, okay,
01:47:41
now the show's settling into whatever, you know, kind of that kind of language.
01:47:45
Soft, more slump.
01:47:47
Not quite like that, but just, or some people were saying they didn't think the adult storylines were as interesting.
01:47:56
And I don't know, I mean, I don't want to read too much into it.
01:47:59
Yeah.
01:48:00
And sometimes actually personally, it's good for me to have my expectations tempered a little bit,
01:48:05
and then I'll appreciate something more.
01:48:07
But anyway, I think it still has 100% on Rotten Tomatoes though.
01:48:11
Yeah.
01:48:12
Season two as well.
01:48:13
I think we were also jazzed up after the first season, and we've had all this time just to talk it up and talk it up
01:48:20
and get more people to watch it, that you do have to kind of take a step down and not put it so high on the pedestal,
01:48:28
because it's hard for anyone to achieve what you're expecting if you put it so high.
01:48:34
Yeah.
01:48:35
So I know some people don't give a crap about Rotten Tomatoes or Critics or anything,
01:48:40
so you can just ignore me if you don't care about that, but I see season one has a 100%, season two has a 96%.
01:48:46
So 4% less good.
01:48:48
Oh, that's...
01:48:50
There are many shows that went two or three seasons that would love to have that much on the second season.
01:48:59
Absolutely.
01:49:00
All right, so we get into listener buzz?
01:49:04
Yes, yes.
01:49:05
Okay, Laurie Plets says, "Lady's cult name purple people eaters, so somebody else came up with that too."
01:49:13
I didn't come up with it first.
01:49:15
I heard Alex say it on the live show.
01:49:17
Yeah, Alex said.
01:49:18
Yeah.
01:49:19
Erica and Fertre says, "Smells like chronic in here."
01:49:24
Oh, Jeff.
01:49:26
"My Omar Dini says, "So Shawna and Jeff are the worst criminals in the world."
01:49:32
Yes.
01:49:33
That's right.
01:49:34
Steve Bar says, "You may have cannibalistic tendencies if you stored your dead teammate in the meat shed instead of bearing her."
01:49:45
The ground was frozen.
01:49:46
Yeah, they could have found a way.
01:49:49
Elisa Uranga says, "While the episode, it's like we never left, love seeing snippets of the girls returning after the rescue, so much going on at a fast pace, love it."
01:50:02
Yeah, it just says a reminder.
01:50:04
I keep forgetting to say it up front, but these are for last week, so this is for season two episode one.
01:50:08
Yeah.
01:50:09
Because we're getting our episode out right away, and then the comments are from a week before.
01:50:14
Okay.
01:50:15
Charlotte Chapel House says, "Love the first episode.
01:50:19
I got that excited feeling that I had when watching season one.
01:50:23
I haven't been able to shut up about it since.
01:50:25
I'm sure I annoy all my friends who don't watch the show, but hear all about every single plot point and theory from me."
01:50:32
Well, Charlotte, you can always call us and tell us your theories.
01:50:35
Yeah.
01:50:36
You want to--
01:50:37
You want to--
01:50:38
You want to--
01:50:38
You want to--
01:50:39
You want to--
01:50:40
You want to know the theories?
01:50:41
Tofane Tevolt says, "I subscribe to Paramount Plus to watch it, and God I don't regret it. It was so good to have it back."
01:50:48
I wonder if Jackie will be the first in the menu.
01:50:52
Yes.
01:50:53
We have one answer for you, yes.
01:50:56
And if Shauna won't tell the others beforehand, so much to decipher, can't wait to hear you buzzing about it.
01:51:05
That's true. Shauna could have just like sliced Jackie into pieces and mixed it in with the bear meat.
01:51:10
They were never of known.
01:51:11
They were never of known.
01:51:13
Yeah.
01:51:14
They did you guys soup.
01:51:15
Kelly Burgess says, "I had a hard time getting through this one.
01:51:21
Seriously, it took us three attempts before we finished the episode.
01:51:25
It just didn't draw me in like I remember.
01:51:28
And I also feel like it was a little over the top and too unbelievable.
01:51:32
I don't know.
01:51:33
I'm sure I'll keep watching, but I hope it gets better for me."
01:51:37
Oh, I hope so too.
01:51:39
Yeah, Kelly, I'm wondering what you think after you see this episode.
01:51:44
Yeah.
01:51:45
Episode two.
01:51:46
Yeah, I kind of had that feeling after season two episode one after my first watch.
01:51:54
And then when I watched it, the second time I liked it a lot more.
01:51:58
So maybe you should try watching it again.
01:52:00
I don't know.
01:52:01
Or maybe after listening to us, you'll have a new appreciation.
01:52:04
Yeah, that always happens to me.
01:52:06
Sometimes podcasting or listening to a podcast can really help you connect the dots and feel differently.
01:52:13
Yeah.
01:52:14
Yeah, that's pretty rare.
01:52:15
Megan O'Connell says, "I didn't love the reintroduction of the new girls that were nowhere around last season.
01:52:21
They were in the background sometimes.
01:52:23
Anyway, except maybe the funeral scene.
01:52:26
I thought the girl talking about herself was too much.
01:52:29
Like you all said, they have been out there for months and have they not had a conversation or two with the others.
01:52:34
Yeah, they could have handled that part better.
01:52:38
Yeah.
01:52:39
Yeah, I agree.
01:52:45
JC Harris says, "Just finished watching it.
01:52:47
Neither my husband or I were really wowed.
01:52:49
Last season felt more realistic maybe.
01:52:51
And this one felt more fantastical like too much too over the top.
01:52:55
I don't know.
01:52:56
It's the first time I've even had the thought that I could stop watching it and be okay.
01:53:00
I mean, I'll keep watching and I hope next episode is better.
01:53:04
But just that I would even have that thought was a bummer.
01:53:06
There were some great moments that I love the character.
01:53:09
So hopefully listening to the podcast will make me appreciate it more.
01:53:11
Well, right in and let's know if it did.
01:53:13
Yeah.
01:53:14
Yeah, like I think Wendy was saying the feel of it was a bit different.
01:53:19
Yeah.
01:53:20
Yeah, I can see that.
01:53:22
So Lindsay Schlicht said, "So so so excited the show and you guys are back.
01:53:28
I agree with whom ever on the podcast said it felt like a midseason episode.
01:53:33
A bit underwhelming for a season premiere overall, but with the show like yellow jackets,
01:53:39
even underwhelming makes for a fantastic TV.
01:53:42
I've been on the fence on the identity of the antler queen,
01:53:45
but Shawna being the first to chow down on a pal makes me think it's likely her.
01:53:52
Laudey just feels too obvious.
01:53:55
As a huge Tory fan, I was excited to hear Cornflite Girls close out the episode.
01:54:00
I loved even more your explanation of the song on the episode and listening to Jason Singett
01:54:06
was the highlight of my week was grinning like an idiot.
01:54:10
That's funny.
01:54:12
I forgot.
01:54:13
I even did that.
01:54:15
Carolin says, "I loved how it felt.
01:54:18
We were just dropped right back where we left off.
01:54:21
I timed my rewatch so I could go straight from the season one finale into the premiere on the 24th
01:54:27
and it flowed perfectly.
01:54:29
I immediately loved Misty prepping Shawna to talk to the cops.
01:54:32
The only thing you should ever say to the police is, "I want my lawyer."
01:54:36
That's why I put it on the cookie.
01:54:39
Everybody listened to Misty motherfucking quickly because that's some solid advice.
01:54:44
Smiley face.
01:54:46
Carol is a criminal attorney, she would know.
01:54:48
Also, I think I want a replica of that cookie as a giant cookie cake on my birthday.
01:54:54
I also enjoyed the glimpse of one of the most iconic moments of my go-to guilty pleasure show
01:55:00
in my teens early 20s, MTV's The Challenge.
01:55:04
I'll never get tired of seeing CT wearing Johnny Bananas as a backpack.
01:55:08
I guess Callie and her boyfriend are doing a little nostalgia watch because that season was in my senior year of college in 2010.
01:55:16
Anyway, I'm very excited to see how this season develops.
01:55:19
I'm intrigued by adult Laughty and I'm excited to see how this season plays with the idea of whether or not something supernatural is happening.
01:55:27
Also, am I the only one who shouted at my TV when we saw Shawna start to bring Jackie's ear to her mouth?
01:55:33
Because however I thought the cannibalism would start on this show, that wasn't it.
01:55:38
It certainly goes beyond the girls resorting to eating their fallen craft survivors in order to avoid starvation.
01:55:45
Their ritualistic hunting and feeding depicted in the pilot definitely hinted that the cannibalism was much deeper and more complex than the typical Don repartiesque survival scenario of last resort, most of us think of.
01:55:58
I mean sure, Shawna is starving, but her consumption of Jackie's ear is more than an act of starvation.
01:56:04
We're seeing how she literally cannot let go of Jackie, so much so that she is making Jackie a part of her.
01:56:10
Can't get much closer to your friend than that.
01:56:12
Without nerding out too much on anthropophagy, I think we are going to see some very interesting themes play out when it comes to endocannibalism, including eating the flesh of a loved one as a form of reverence or an attempt to absorb an admired quality of another person.
01:56:29
Damn, I love this show.
01:56:30
Thanks, Sarah.
01:56:31
What a great message.
01:56:32
Right in again, I want to hear more about endocannibalism.
01:56:35
That's fascinating.
01:56:36
Yeah.
01:56:37
And anthropophagy.
01:56:39
I don't know what that is. I'm going to look it up there.
01:56:40
Before.
01:56:41
Yeah.
01:56:42
Might be a typo. I don't think so though.
01:56:44
Yeah, especially like to your point about how, you know, when we think about like cannibalism, you think more alive.
01:56:52
That's what we've seen.
01:56:53
Yeah.
01:56:54
And where they just get more and more desperate and they're like, okay, sort of fretting about it and finally deciding to go for, but yellowjackets has its own pizzazz of how it does things.
01:57:02
So instead it's this friend who can't let go of her other friend taking a bite out of her ear, possibly.
01:57:08
Love it.
01:57:09
Imagine.
01:57:10
Okay, we got a bunch of calls which saw some and here is Steve Brown.
01:57:19
Hello, yellowjackets WTF.
01:57:21
This is Steve and this is for season two episode one of yellowjackets.
01:57:26
Only a chance to watch it once because just life and vacation and stuff.
01:57:31
But, woo, I'm going to have to watch it again before the next episode.
01:57:34
I hope and gosh, a lot of things, I want to say right off the bat, I'm really glad they gave us two things that we were left at the end of the first season questioning.
01:57:46
And I know that was a few people thought, well, maybe Jackie's not dead.
01:57:49
No, Jackie's dead, her body's in the meat freezer and was hobby on the porch.
01:57:55
This is something that was a huge, that a controversy right at the end of the season.
01:57:59
I remember we all went back and forth.
01:58:01
I couldn't say one way or the other.
01:58:04
I didn't think he was on the porch but I also wasn't going to say he wasn't there.
01:58:07
But I knew a lot of people who were like, oh, I swear I saw him, he's on the porch.
01:58:10
No, obviously he wasn't.
01:58:12
He's somewhere in the woods.
01:58:14
Live, dead, who knows.
01:58:16
That lotty stuff.
01:58:19
That's a cold.
01:58:21
Come on, please.
01:58:24
And just the Misty storyline, I don't know if they're trying to make us have a little bit of sympathy for her feeling so sorry for Natalie.
01:58:33
But that look on her face when she discovered the broken door jam was just priceless in the chance that she's going to have to investigate the kidnapping of Natalie is going to be fine.
01:58:44
And Taisa and her, yeah, finding that altar, she's going to have to admit to herself there's something going on more.
01:58:51
And by the way, the dog, dog's name, Steve, every show needs a Steve.
01:58:55
Talk to you later.
01:58:58
I thought I was Steve.
01:59:00
When they said that was the dog's name.
01:59:03
I was one of those people.
01:59:04
I was so sure that I saw Havi on the porch.
01:59:08
I was wrong.
01:59:10
And he said, Taisa is going to have to confront, you know what, she's done it.
01:59:14
And in this episode, Simone said, you need to get some help.
01:59:18
And I'm like, yeah, she's definitely, yeah, she does.
01:59:23
And I don't know if she's going to get it.
01:59:26
I think balancing the light in dark Thai is going to take a lot of effort on her part.
01:59:33
Right, here's Ann Wynn.
01:59:36
Hello, yellowjackets WTF.
01:59:38
I am so excited the show's back.
01:59:40
I'm so excited your back.
01:59:42
And I just can't wait for all the rest of the season.
01:59:45
It's so exciting.
01:59:46
I loved the first episode.
01:59:48
I thought Larry, the hotel reception guy, was hilarious.
01:59:52
And I just loved when Miste said, you know, stunning.
01:59:55
Looks like she'd stab you.
01:59:57
I hope that was the right description.
01:59:59
I think the guy who got buried in the woods with lotty's cult.
02:00:06
I feel like it was a ceremonial burying.
02:00:09
I mean, otherwise you'd get in trouble, right?
02:00:11
You can't keep having these retreats and then people not coming home from them.
02:00:14
That would be a little bit suspicious.
02:00:16
I love adult lotty.
02:00:18
My girl, Simone, Kessel, fellow Kiwi.
02:00:22
And I think she makes a really good adult lotty.
02:00:26
And I kind of, even if weird stuff happens, which of course it will, it's yellowjackets.
02:00:32
But I kind of felt a little sense of relief that she seems at peace or she seems to be doing hair-calling.
02:00:39
It was quite distressing to see who's so upset and the cabin and the woods.
02:00:45
So let's just see where it goes.
02:00:47
It's probably going to go dark. Let's face it.
02:00:49
My most horrifying moment was Jackie Frozen in the shed.
02:00:52
I thought it was a flashback and I was just casually watching.
02:00:54
And then all of a sudden that kind of movie noise sting that they do, like,
02:00:58
"Duh, duh, duh, and then suddenly it's her frozen."
02:01:00
"Oh, that was horrifying."
02:01:02
I did think that Shona was going to eat the ear just a moment before she did.
02:01:07
And that made it even more horrifying. I was like, "Oh my god, she's going there."
02:01:10
But it's not a great choice for a body part. It's pretty much all cartilage, so it would be pretty gross.
02:01:16
Anyway, loving the show, loving your podcast as always.
02:01:20
I'm so glad you're back. Bye!
02:01:22
Bye, I love that practical take on the eating of an ear.
02:01:26
Yeah.
02:01:27
She could have chosen a more appetizing body part.
02:01:30
Yeah, and also raw, like, recently thawed and raw cartilage.
02:01:35
It's a nasty good point.
02:01:37
Yeah.
02:01:38
It's great to hear you calling.
02:01:40
I hope you call it more.
02:01:42
And I agree with you, Simone Kessel.
02:01:44
I don't really think I've made too fine a point on it, but she, I think she's doing a fantastic job as adult body.
02:01:49
Because she really has that self-possessed at ease or of one of these self-improvement gurus.
02:01:57
But there's a touch of unsettledness in her too.
02:02:03
You know, that's kind of nuanced in my opinion.
02:02:08
All right, here is Archmester Renny.
02:02:11
Yay!
02:02:12
I'm trying to figure out why the writers of the show are making Shana and Jeff, but mostly Shana.
02:02:20
So dumb in their attempt to cover up.
02:02:23
Thank you.
02:02:24
Or Jeff says, I can't remember which one says, well, we can't get the paintings out of here.
02:02:29
Well, of course they can. All they have to do is pull them off or cut them off of the wooden frames and then roll them up or fold them up and take them somewhere and burn them too.
02:02:40
And if you're going to burn the driver's license and the documents and the journals, it would be good to run them through a shredder first and then burn the little pieces and then they're unrecoverable.
02:02:53
So I think that they must have a reason for wanting Shana to get caught.
02:03:00
Or maybe the cops are going to be even dumber than Shana and Jeff.
02:03:05
I can see that there's a reason why they would want Callie to suspect and come up with some evidence.
02:03:12
But leaving those defaced paintings behind is far more suspicious than leaving some frames with the canvas taken off of them.
02:03:25
And so I just hope the writers have something in mind other than just dumbness.
02:03:33
I will keep watching to find out.
02:03:36
That's a good point.
02:03:37
I do think it's a bit of a low in the writing there.
02:03:42
I feel like they just made sure to be funny before.
02:03:46
Yeah.
02:03:47
And now I feel like, okay, what happened?
02:03:51
Yeah.
02:03:53
Yeah, I think I mean maybe like defacing the paintings just seemed more interesting than just folding them up.
02:04:02
It's so much more work.
02:04:03
Like a piece of paper or something.
02:04:07
Yeah.
02:04:08
I know.
02:04:09
Okay, here's Jody Morelle.
02:04:11
Let's see if she can outgrow us from the story she told last week.
02:04:16
Oh, that was so good though.
02:04:18
Hi, Penny, Jason.
02:04:20
And Daphne and Wendy.
02:04:21
It's Jody from Canberra, Australia here.
02:04:23
And I, these are my couple of thoughts that I had on yellow jacket season two episode one that I wanted to share.
02:04:30
So here's my question.
02:04:32
When Lottie is in the institution in Switzerland and talking to her new roommate and assuring how that they can help, just like they had helped Lottie, do we really think Lottie is talking about the institution?
02:04:43
Because my first thought was, is she talking about her voices?
02:04:47
Here's the reasons I went there.
02:04:49
The new roommate is telling her voices to shut up when Lottie makes the reassurance.
02:04:54
So I kind of felt like Lottie was saying, listen to your voices.
02:04:57
They're here to help.
02:04:58
They'll help you like they helped me in the wilderness.
02:05:02
Lottie completely gave into her voices and visions.
02:05:05
And we've seen Harry and episode one as kind, compassionate Lottie, taking care of the more and trying to protect the whole group as a result.
02:05:12
After they were rescued, she was catatonic.
02:05:15
I can only assume part of that was her trauma.
02:05:18
But part of it could also have been being ripped away from the wilderness where she felt so comfortable, so independent and autonomous.
02:05:25
And then being remediated when she had so fully given into her visions and was actually kind of thriving as a result.
02:05:32
And then in the current timeline, grown up Lottie is back to being kind, compassionate Lottie, trying to help and protect people.
02:05:39
And her wilderness retreat is based in the woods, so she is probably back to feeling that connection with the woods.
02:05:45
Maybe she's back to feeling kind and independent and comfortable and autonomous again.
02:05:50
So I'm wondering if grown up Lottie might not be medicating herself.
02:05:54
I'm wondering if she might have once again given into her voices and she's encouraging others to do the same, which is actually pretty dangerous to the mental health of her followers.
02:06:04
So that's the first thought I had.
02:06:06
The second one was I was not surprised that Shauna was the first to go cannibal.
02:06:11
She is pregnant. She must be so freaking hungry.
02:06:14
Growing a human turns you into a hobbit who needs breakfast, second breakfast, 11s and so on throughout the day.
02:06:20
So I was impressed she's managed this law without like trying to bite someone.
02:06:25
She must just be ravenous and hearing your conversation about this, I am a little worried about my morals because I had no problem with Shauna eating that ear whatsoever because she's pregnant and she needs nutrition desperately.
02:06:37
So I think I might need a little stretch at Lottie's wellness retreat to examine my personal values.
02:06:42
Or maybe not. Thanks for the podcast guys, talk soon.
02:06:46
Thanks, Jodie.
02:06:47
Oh my goodness. I love her insights.
02:06:51
No, I she must still listen to the podcast.
02:06:54
Now what did we say because I think it was okay to eat it.
02:06:59
It's creepy, but it's.
02:07:02
It's fine.
02:07:05
I try to keep an open mind with this show and just let it happen.
02:07:09
Whatever it is. Okay. I'm just thinking.
02:07:11
You're out in the wilderness starving and there's you know you always have that conversation about would you turn to cannibalism and most people say yes.
02:07:21
Yeah, especially if you think the person would be okay with it.
02:07:26
I think for me it was it was the way it went down because I couldn't tell if Shauna even really knew what she was doing.
02:07:34
And also that eating an ear is like really gross.
02:07:39
And just seeing someone eat a piece of a human is disturbing even if you think it through morally it's fine, but it's like whoa.
02:07:49
Yeah, when we've seen it in other movies like in a live even when they showed like the actual meat it was like it just looked like any meat.
02:07:58
It just looked like chicken.
02:08:00
So yeah, it wasn't as visceral as like that's a freaking ear.
02:08:05
Right. And also it did feel more like yes, she's hungry and she's pregnant, but also there was more to it psychologically than that.
02:08:14
So which made it more interesting and kind of twisted too.
02:08:17
But I also really loved Jody what you said about the possibility that young Lodi was telling this other patient to listen to her voices.
02:08:24
That makes sense for a lot of you to say that.
02:08:27
Yeah, it does.
02:08:29
Okay, we got a few more. Here's one from LT.
02:08:33
Hey, everybody. Very excited. Very excited about the new season.
02:08:38
I want to point out three things that I noticed and hopefully I didn't miss on your podcast.
02:08:45
The first one is I was doing a rewatch of season one.
02:08:49
And you know what? Missy listens to all show tunes in the car.
02:08:52
And I think that she does actually become good friends with show tune girl this season.
02:09:01
So that was interesting. Number two, if you watch in the background at the at the cult slash retreat when Natalie is talking to Lodi, you can see them like unbarry and brush off the naked man in the back.
02:09:18
So they stopped their burial at that point.
02:09:23
And then oh crap, was the other one.
02:09:27
Oh, I know that if you look at the art in the studio, like you could conceivably think that one of the paintings is taisha and one is Sammy just saying.
02:09:40
All right, thanks. Keep up the great work. Love the podcast and love yellow jackets buzz buzz buzz.
02:09:47
That's intriguing.
02:09:50
Yeah, I've got to go back and watch that again so I can see.
02:09:56
Because someone else pointed that out to me. Yeah, about the art. I got to go back.
02:10:02
Those are all three really great and thought provoking points. Thanks for calling in.
02:10:06
It's awesome. Got two more calls. Here's good old Greg.
02:10:11
Hello, this is Greg feedback on season two episode one.
02:10:17
Friends, Romans, conquerors. Thank you for the input on the title last week.
02:10:24
I'd limb your ear. I would never have put it together and that makes it even funnier.
02:10:29
So I can appreciate the comedic moments. I don't necessarily think it's a black comedy, but it's definitely worth while.
02:10:38
It's got its moments of a very hard comedy.
02:10:44
So the stuff that sticks out to me now is kind of what Jason was talking about the podcast where Misty, she's showing vulnerability and she's showing adult Misty is showing those barriers kind of breaking down.
02:10:58
I feel like we're being set up with the red shirts being kind of bitches to Misty and so Misty will be happy to lead them into whatever traps or holes or whatever later on.
02:11:13
I absolutely got the sense of like ritual or ceremony when when Shauna went to go eat the ear.
02:11:23
It was funny that Jackie was in the meat locker. I'm not sure why you would put her in the meat locker except to be meat.
02:11:30
I get you don't want her to rot, but I mean, like why why would you waste room? I guess you don't have a ton of extra meat unless you're preparing for it.
02:11:42
Yeah, so the Shauna and Jeff scene, I just like I empathize with Jeff and if this does go five seasons, I think we're going to need to see him become good bad, good bad, good bad.
02:11:57
And I just hope it doesn't turn into a Morgan situation where we're just very confused on where he just shifts back and forth and back and forth.
02:12:06
Hopefully they end up with a solid like this is what it was the whole time and he was adapting and overcoming over whatever obstacles were in his path.
02:12:16
I did like the theory that you guys whoever it was, whatever Fidlister mentioned about him, you know, turning into a book or something like that.
02:12:26
I thought that was a really that'd be a very good throwback and callback and kind of into the main storyline.
02:12:34
Anyway, looking forward to watching episode two tomorrow, maybe Friday. I don't know whenever it is and looking for the podcast.
02:12:42
Bye. Thanks Craig.
02:12:46
Yeah, you think there will be a book written at some point in the show.
02:12:50
Oh, I don't know. I just think Jeff has copies of the journals.
02:12:55
It could be Jeff or somebody. I mean, they keep talking about who's going to come out with the story. You know, so I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of this somebody writes a book about it.
02:13:06
All right, one more call. This is Sidney. I think it's she said she kept it down to four minutes. So here goes.
02:13:13
Hey guys, this is Sydney. I have a couple of things to say and I think it's going to take a couple of minutes. So I'm going to go ahead and jump in.
02:13:20
The first thing is quick. It's Kelly. Kelly knows too much now. And I think that because she's an asshole, her mommy is going to kill her.
02:13:30
Oh, it's the second thing.
02:13:33
In the 2021 timeline, I don't think that Laughty is still a dangerous character. So in 1991, my mom had like an eight month hospitalization during which ECT was performed.
02:13:49
I was like, I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do that. But I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do that.
02:13:55
I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do that. But I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do that.
02:14:04
I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do that. But I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do that.
02:14:10
To very real side effects of the treatment that she meaning Laughty would be like a much more tamped down version of her previous self. So I would imagine that there'd be some elimination of her hallucinations and some of her grandeur.
02:14:24
So as a result, I'm shifting my focus to the current day.
02:14:28
Characters who have proven to be amoral and we're obviously talking about Shana.
02:14:33
We're kind of talking about Ty even though I think that Ty has some internal illness that she's dealing with as well. But Laughty in contrast seems to be calm and seems to be like a cheesy self help guru who's leading a tribe to experience animalistic natural elements of their personality in a fun summer camp environment.
02:14:51
I'm going to be able to do that. So I ascertain that the naked dude his naked dude burial was safe and consensual and probably requested by him.
02:15:06
Okay, so the third thing I want to introduce how I view the symbol from the crash site in the cabin floor.
02:15:11
I think it was carved by the dead hunter or maybe he has like-minded friends. I feel that the figure is a female in distress as she's posing leaning left. She's got two flailing arms and possibly being impaled by a spear.
02:15:31
So I know we don't know much yet about the previous inhabitant of that cabin, but I suppose that he was ritualistic, misogynistic and an involuntary celibate. So my evidence for that is that he removed the queens from the deck of playing cards.
02:15:45
He removed himself from society. He carved that symbol and he has an impressive playboy collection.
02:15:51
Okay, so I had to describe that because I wanted to discuss the hook that comes out between the girls legs. So I read that as a faster dizzation of the symbol of Venus.
02:16:01
It's suggest to me that him as the artist, he finds a female genitalia like weaponized and it's his pictorial version of the word "cut."
02:16:10
So in my interpretation, he's hostile towards women. He thinks that women are here for his own sexual gratification and when he didn't realize that in society, he became the 19-A's version of an in-cell.
02:16:22
So he was obviously a naturalist and a survivalist on top of all of this. So in his imagery, he constructs this symbol, constructs the female form from a elongated triangle mirroring mountains, a circle head suggesting sunset over the mountain.
02:16:38
And lines for limbs and spear in the torso. So representing alpine trees.
02:16:45
I also surmise that the line that bisects the form at an angle at the waist is that this female is in the water or drowning.
02:16:56
So between the spear and the drowning, I think that he's really going for overkill.
02:17:01
Okay, so after saying all of the above, I'm left wondering why Lottie's cult would continue incorporating this symbol.
02:17:11
So if I'm right in my interpretation, we're going to get flashbacks to the hunter's time in the cabin and I really want those flashbacks.
02:17:21
But the girls wouldn't be privy to that information. So maybe they never got the chance to know what was behind the symbol, but if so, why did they adopt it?
02:17:30
I mean, again, I mean, Tane, it's a girl in distress, but they adopt it.
02:17:35
Okay, awesome. Thanks for listening to all of that.
02:17:37
Four and a half minutes. Thanks. Bye.
02:17:39
That was great.
02:17:42
Oh my gosh.
02:17:44
So much inside. I didn't think about going back and getting flashbacks of the guy in the cabin. Yeah.
02:17:51
I know, but everyone else is obvious now that she said it. Like we have to. Yeah, we need to know.
02:17:57
We need to know because we also found out recently that he had this book in there that has some of this iconography inside that looks similar to the symbol.
02:18:08
And he's clearly, I don't know, maybe not clearly, but they're definitely suggesting that he's crucial to what's going on in the wilderness.
02:18:18
But as far as your interpretation of that symbol, I think it's so simple, but not your interpretation to symbol itself that you could ascribe a million different things to it, but everything you said sounds like could be a possibility.
02:18:35
Yeah, yeah. But that was what I was wondering is if it is what you say a misogynistic symbol, then why would it be the you know carried forward and used, but yeah, if they just don't know what it means or maybe they're like a reappropriating it or something like that.
02:18:49
I liked the idea that Shana would kill Kelly.
02:18:53
Oh my gosh.
02:18:55
I want to say no, she would never do that, but I don't know.
02:18:58
Yeah, it's hard to say was Shana.
02:19:01
She spent all the season one saying she didn't like her. Anyway, thanks. Sydney, I hope you keep calling in with that stuff.
02:19:08
Yeah, great feedback this week. Those were great.
02:19:12
[Music]
02:19:21
All right, that is our show. Thanks so much for listening everybody. Hope you're having as much fun as we are. If you want to write in or send us more voice messages, you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com.
02:19:35
And while you there, be sure to check out our other shows like run for your lives.
02:19:41
Yeah, yeah.
02:19:43
Yeah, in between the time that we recorded the end of season one and now all of our own, for your lives became part of podcastica.
02:19:54
So we've been really busy just continuing to cover lots of things, most recently cocaine bear.
02:20:01
Yes, I listened to that. That was a great episode.
02:20:05
I got to watch the movie and listen to that podcast for sure. I've been hearing so many good things about that movie.
02:20:10
Yeah, we had a lot of fun with it. We had Alex on to talk about cocaine bear. He was the one who brought it to our attention.
02:20:16
Yeah, perfect. And we thought, oh, this is ridiculous movie. We're never going to cover that. What are you talking about?
02:20:22
All it took was us watching the preview and Peyton and I were on board immediately and decided, Alex, you have to come on and talk about this with us.
02:20:30
It turned out to be a lot of fun.
02:20:32
If you guys didn't know Alex is a huge cocaine fan, so he's like the perfect.
02:20:37
We should probably mention Alex's live shows.
02:20:43
Yeah, so Alex is, yeah, every Sunday after the episode, heirs of yellow jackets, if you head over to our YouTube channel at youtube.com/atpodcastica or just search for podcastica on YouTube.
02:20:58
You can see a live reaction with Alex and a couple other listeners of the podcast and you know, usually host podcast, host things like that. Just talking about what they just saw.
02:21:09
So if you just watched it and you want to, you know, they also will interact with you if you send in comments and stuff. Super fun.
02:21:16
It is. It's a lot of fun.
02:21:19
Next week on when and I are going to be recording an episode of Cast of the Rings on the Return of the King extended version.
02:21:29
So if you want to send in some feedback about that, I know everyone is kind of a fan of those Lord of the Rings movies.
02:21:35
We would love to get your feedback and include it in the podcast.
02:21:39
I love Return of the Kings too.
02:21:41
And in case it wasn't apparent from what Penny just said, if you want to hear more penny, penny and Ann Wynn, do the cast of the rings, which is all about the rings of power.
02:21:51
And then they continue on with the Lord of the Rings movies after that.
02:21:54
And are you guys going to go do the hobbit and everything or I don't know, maybe.
02:21:58
We're talking about.
02:22:00
Yeah.
02:22:01
Next episode of this podcast, Yellowjacket season two, episode three, Digestief, which is a drink or portion of food drunk or eaten in order to aid the digestion after you've had a meal.
02:22:15
Okay.
02:22:16
Oh, man.
02:22:17
I don't even know what to say about it.
02:22:20
Oh, growth.
02:22:21
I can only imagine.
02:22:24
All right. That is our show.
02:22:26
Thank you.
02:22:27
Everybody, listen.
02:22:29
Buzz, Buzz, Buzz, Buzz, Buzz, Buzz, Buzz, Buzz, Buzz, Buzz.
02:22:34
[Music]