43: Yellowjackets Catch-Up

[00:00:28] Hello everybody, welcome to the podcast, I'm Jason. And I'm Wendy. And I'm Penny. And this is Yellowjackets WTF episode 42. Yellowjackets season three comes out later this week, just a few days. So in this episode, we're catching you off on what happened in the show so far.

[00:00:57] Plus we'll share some of our hopes for season three and some wild speculation. Oh good. So season three episodes one and two both air this Friday, right? February 14th, Valentine's Day on Paramount Plus with Showtime. And then on Sunday, February 16th on the Showtime cable channel. So if you want to watch it early, it's different this time. It's been like 10 years since season two. So things have changed. Um, it's what it feels like.

[00:01:25] So you have to get the Paramount Plus app and sign up for Paramount Plus with Showtime. So that's like an extra thing. And it costs 12.99 a month. As far as we can tell, the whole season is going to go like that with each episode airing on Friday on the Paramount Plus app, and then on Sunday on Showtime cable channel. So for this episode, we're going to summarize all the events of the series up until now. Uh, talk a little bit about what stands up for us.

[00:01:51] We're going to be focusing more on season two since that was the most recent season. And also because we podcasted the hell out of season one. But first we will read a summary of season one and then we'll go through season two episode by episode. But first we're just really excited to be back talking about Yellow Jackets, right guys? Yeah, definitely. And you guys, I didn't really have a chance to do a lot of rewatching. I watched some catch ups and a couple episodes. I know. Didn't you binge the whole thing, Wendy? I did.

[00:02:19] Um, you know, I usually do it while I'm gaming. So, you know, I'm mostly listening to it. But it's great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I intended to. And I just, I was, I've been so busy and I, I finally started and I somehow had managed to forget that the episodes are not like 40 minutes long. They're like an hour and 20 minutes long sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. So I watched the first couple of episodes of season one and I was like, I'm not going to make it.

[00:02:48] I'm not going to get through the whole series before season three stop starts. So, uh, I just jumped ahead and watched from season two, episode six to the end. I watched season two, episode one, and then I watched some key scenes all throughout season two. And what really struck me is just how well made the show is. And I remember coming off of season two thinking, I don't think that was quite as good as season

[00:03:15] one, but watching this stuff today, I thought, wow, it's still great, you know, and it's so well done and intriguing and well made to not just the story and everything, but the moments that they create. And I don't know, it's just a very, very well done show. The acting is so great too. Yeah. It's gorgeous. The, everything about the production design is so thoughtful and careful. There's such great uses of color.

[00:03:44] And then we talk about this all the time, right? The music is so powerful the way they use it on this show. Absolutely. The nostalgia for the nineties is something I have like really bad and really strong right now, but I don't think I'm alone in loving the nineties music on the soundtrack. I think it's very popular. It's one of the huge draws of this show for me too. The nineties was one of my favorite decades while I was going through it. Yeah. For us, it was our twenties, right? It's the best time of our lives. Kick ass. Yes.

[00:04:15] Also, it's just really well written. I laughed a bunch of times. I mean, and it's so dynamic. There's horrific moments. And I mean, everybody listening to me knows this. I don't need to go into it too much, but I'm just so struck by it. Cause I'm like delved in today and yesterday and I'm like, oh yeah, I love this show. I started the right points and all the points I had, like was also about music. And I was like, we already did a musical episode, but it's so, they use it just like you said, Penny, they use it so well.

[00:04:44] Like I can just think about like the scene where Travis is found and, and they play Vienna and then they play it a couple times more in the series to kind of reflect on that moment. And it's that you don't really need any words. It's so good. And they played, um, Sharon Van Etten's 17 in the first episode of this season. And that song really stuck with me. Um, it's been like two years, right?

[00:05:14] Since season two came out and I play it. It's on my regular rotation and it just burrowed deep into me and I love it, you know? So hearing it in the episode, I was like, oh yeah, that's where this started. Cause I hadn't heard that song before this. Yeah. For me, it was, uh, Cornflake Girl. That's been on my playlist ever since. And, uh, Zombie. Yeah. Oh yeah. I, I have re-fallen in love with that song and it's my favorite sing loud in the car song.

[00:05:42] Nothing is more satisfying than like, just like screaming out that like zombie, zombie, zombie. Oh, it's so great. I just looked up Cornflake Girl today and ChatGPT's interpretation of what that song means is how it's about how women who are faced with troubles can sometimes turn on each other, which, um, sounds appropriate for this show. I don't know if that's accurate, but you know. Yeah. That's what I remember from when we covered that episode.

[00:06:10] That that's what we all agreed was probably what the song was about. All right. Well, let's get into it. We'll start with our season one summary. Penny, do you want to read the season one summary? Sure. Sure. In 1996, a New Jersey high school girls soccer team, the Yellow Jackets, is traveling to nationals when their plane crashes in the remote Canadian wilderness.

[00:06:34] The stranded survivors must struggle to stay alive for 19 months, facing starvation, infighting, and eerie, possibly supernatural forces. The team includes the key players, Shauna, played by Sophie Nelise. She is Jackie's best friend, secretly having an affair with Jackie's boyfriend, Jeff. Jackie, played by Ella Purnell, the team captain and most popular girl struggling to maintain control.

[00:07:01] Tyessa, played by Jasmine Savoy Brown, an ambitious, pragmatic leader with a fierce drive to survive. I like the way this is written. That's funny. Natalie, played by Sophie Thatcher, a rebellious outsider with survival skills from her troubled past. Misty, Sammy Hanratty, the socially awkward equipment manager, desperate to be needed. Van, played by Liv Hewson, Tyessa's girlfriend who survives a wolf attack, leaving her permanently scarred.

[00:07:28] She also comes very close to being burned to death several times. Yes. Lottie, played by Courtney Eaton, a wealthy player who begins experiencing increasingly disturbing visions that some believe are prophetic. Should we divide this up? Do you want to? Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. Otherwise, it's a lot of... I've been sick, so that's a lot for my voice all at once. Wendy?

[00:07:51] In the 2021 timeline, we follow four adult survivors as they try to navigate their lives while hiding the truth about what really happened in the wilderness. We have adult Shauna, played by Melanie Linsky. Unfulfilled in her marriage to Jeff, she begins an affair with Adam, a mysterious artist. We have adult Thaisa, played by Tawny Cypress.

[00:08:14] She's running for state senate while dealing with violent sleepwalking episodes and her son's terrifying visions of the bad one. We have adult Natalie, played by Juliette Lewis. She's struggling with addiction, obsessed with uncovering the truth behind Travis's death. And then we have adult Misty, played by Christina Ricci. Now a manipulative nurse, she gets involved when the survivors receive anonymous postcards threatening to expose their past.

[00:08:45] Do you think that's a fair characterization by ChatGPT, that she's a manipulative nurse? Yes. Yes, but it's not a complete characterization. No. Yes. That's true. It would be hard to boil Misty down. I wouldn't want her to be my nurse. God, no. As the season unfolds, the show gradually reveals the dark descent of the survivors in the wilderness, including the girls discovering an abandoned cabin, which becomes their shelter,

[00:09:13] Misty destroying the plane's black box to ensure she remains indispensable, increasing tension between Shauna and Jackie culminating in Jackie being ostracized from the group. Lottie's visions gaining influence, leading some to believe she has a mystical connection to the wilderness. The survivors beginning to splinter into factions, foreshadowing future conflicts. A terrifying ritual hunting scene in the pilot. What a pilot. Strongly hinting at cannibalism in their future. Very strongly, I would say.

[00:09:43] The season ends with Jackie freezing to death alone outside the cabin after a brutal argument with Shauna. In the present day, it's revealed that Lottie is alive and leaving a cult. I guess you could say that. I don't know if we know that for sure. Suggesting that her influence over the group may have extended far beyond their time in the wilderness. I guess at the end of season one, it seemed more like it was a cult. It implied that it was a cult, but just because the people were all wearing sort of lavender-colored pajamas.

[00:10:13] Right. It just made them look like they were part of a cult. And I would say by the end of season two, I really wanted it to be a cult, but personally, I'm thinking maybe not so much. It definitely has some cult traits. Sure.

[00:10:32] I mean, there are so many of these sort of halfway in between places because, you know, she said she wanted to help people address their trauma and to stop running away from who they really are or something like that. And that kind of a thing, I remember, well, it's in this first episode we're about to get to, but where you first see her speaking to her followers and telling them that basically the reality that they think is necessarily real or something like that.

[00:11:01] And that's what cults do. They'll take what your perception of is a reality and discredit that so then they can put in what theirs is and have power over you. Or self-help organizations will be like, no, you don't have to see the world that way. You can reframe things so that you can have a better life. And so sometimes I think an organization can start off with good intentions but lead into something bad like that. And I was trying to watch to see if Lottie's organization was getting to be that way. And it didn't really seem that way to me.

[00:11:31] Everyone seemed happy to be there until the end where she suggested they sacrifice one of them to the spirit of the wilderness. Then that was maybe a bit overboard. Yeah, but that's separate from the wellness center. It's separate, yeah. You're right. That was special for the yellow jackets. I don't know that any of the people at the wellness center were on a path to being sacrificed to the wilderness. Agreed. I don't think that it would have happened to any of them.

[00:11:59] But I wouldn't be shocked if we find out more about the organization and our perceptions change. Yeah, I think they're at risk. You never know. Yeah. Okay. So now, I mean, do you want to say anything else about season one before we go more deeply into season two? No. The only thing I wanted to ask is, knowing what we know now, watching both seasons, when do you think that pilot scene is going to take place?

[00:12:28] Oh, the pit girl scene. Yeah. The second winter. I mean, we don't know that. No, but that's what I expect. The trailers make it appear that this episode is going to be in the spring, so maybe, but I think we just don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I always presumed that this was sort of the culmination.

[00:12:57] We were seeing it at its worst, and so we were then going to lead up to that, and so I thought it would be the second winter. No, it wouldn't be the first winter, and then there's a whole other year in between that and when they go home. So I think second winter. And as far as in the series, I think they've said they want five seasons. So I would guess that means we won't actually get to it in season five, if I had to guess.

[00:13:26] I mean, until season five. Yeah. I've always kind of thought it might be the last kill before they get, or the last sacrifice before they get rescued. Right. But then on the other hand, there aren't that many of them left. Mm-hmm. So they're going to have to fill up those seasons with something. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if we're going to still be in the wilderness by season five. I feel like we might finish up with the wilderness in season three

[00:13:55] and get to the rescue and, you know, the timeline after they come back from the wilderness. I really hope the show is planning to spend a lot of time in that time period. Afterwards. And then also this show bounces around time all the time, so it might all be happening all the time. We've already seen a few snippets of the rescue. Right. When they get back. Which is fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's go into season two.

[00:14:25] Same order. Penny? Yeah. Sure. Season two, episode one, entitled Friends, Romans, Countrymen. Two months after Jackie's death, the group of survivors are struggling to make it through winter. Lottie has taken on a spiritual leader role. Natalie and Travis are unsuccessful in hunting food and locating a missing hobby. Meanwhile, a pregnant Shauna spends her time talking to Jackie's frozen corpse.

[00:14:53] During one visit, Jackie's ear rips off and Shauna later secretly eats it. Van ties her wrist to Taisa's at night to prevent her from sleepwalking. Misty, still ostracized after the mushroom incident, bonds with Crystal, a member of the JV girls team. Lottie talks Travis down from a panic attack with strange visions. In the present day, Shauna and Jeff cover their involvement in Adam's murder by destroying his personal art studio

[00:15:22] and burning his identification along with Shauna's journals. Callie uncovers the remains of Adam's charred ID. Simone warns Taisa to stay away from Sammy. Taisa later finds the altar she unknowingly constructed in the basement. Misty begins searching for Natalie's whereabouts and notices she was likely taken by force. She attempts to ward off a fellow citizen detective investigating Adam's disappearance.

[00:15:50] Natalie finds herself held hostage in a wellness commune run by Lottie and manages to confront her. So what stands out about this one? Okay, the scenes in the art studio. Yeah, I was going to say that too. Oh my God, that was intense stuff with Shauna and Jeff. The synopsis here, which I got from Wikipedia, doesn't even mention that. I know. Yeah.

[00:16:15] That scene where they were having hate sex on top of Adam's art, looking at portraits he painted of Shauna, that was messed up. That was definitely the fucked up moment of the week. But I remember her saying she, I think she was sort of trying to distract him from being mad at her. So maybe it felt a little manipulated, but also she was just like, this is, you know,

[00:16:44] when I thought of you with your mistress's tongue in your mouth or whatever, it turned me on. And, and, you know, I've decided to stop denying who I am or something like that. And I remember feeling like all different kinds of things in the scene, but also just like, yeah, just accept who you are, you know? I think she was turned on. Let your freak flag fly. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[00:17:07] The summary also sort of skims over the Shauna later secretly eats it part of the ear. It was the, you know, the final moment of the episode and fade to, fade to black, you know, point-flake girl playing over it. The actual cannibalism that we've had. So this is kind of the- Confirmed 100% cannibalism. This is the gateway drug into the full cannibalism. Yeah. Yep. It was a huge ending for the first episode of the season. It was great.

[00:17:35] And the way she did it, it was like, she's like looking at it like, should I? I don't know. Okay, I'm just going to do it. Ow! Chomp. She'd been thinking about it, I guess, for a while. Wow. I thought we see Lottie give Nat and Travis a blessing before they take off to search for Javi. And also, I'm assuming they're searching for game as well.

[00:18:01] And we have the flash forward to 1998 to when they're rescued. And I went through that a couple times trying to see if I could identify anybody. But you really can't identify anybody that we didn't already know was alive except for Lottie. So this is our confirmation that Lottie survived the wilderness. We see her during the rescue.

[00:18:28] Other than that, everybody else we can see, we already knew, survives. And we, I mean, I don't remember had we already seen adult Lottie by now? No. We hadn't. But we did at the end of season one hear something about Lottie Matthews. Mm-hmm. Yeah. But yeah, this is confirmation. And then we see that she seemed to be sent to a treatment for mental health.

[00:18:56] And she's getting electroconvulsive therapy. She seems pretty catatonic. And then we can see her helping somebody else in a way that if you watched all of season two becomes very familiar with both timelines, really. The old timeline and the present timeline. She just has this way about her that you can see is very earnest and caring.

[00:19:23] I'm not saying that, you know, she's not, you know, she's definitely taken some missteps in season two with her trying to help people. I'm not sure she's really helping them. But her intentions seem very good. Yes. Yeah, absolutely. And even the impact. I think she probably seems to have a positive. She had a positive impact on Nat for sure. So, yeah. Yeah. And I think that's what bolsters her. Who?

[00:19:53] Lottie? Yeah. The fact that she sees her impact as positive. Yeah. And I, yep. And I think sometimes she sees things that aren't there, you know. But she thinks they're there. Yeah. And I, I mean, she's, I think a lot of people who go into the healing arts are there because they've had problems in their life and figured out how to help themselves. And then they share that with other people. And I think she may be a bit like that. Anything else? What else?

[00:20:22] We see Callie getting really anxious about she's, she's figuring out that her parents have done something really wrong. And she, it's really screwing up her life. She's not the carefree brat that we once knew. She's a worried brat. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I remember watching season two. One of my favorite things about it was that Callie's role expanded because I think the actress is really good. Yeah.

[00:20:50] Both Callie and Jeff in season two got so much more to do and became so much more interesting. I agree. All right. Next one. All right. Season two, episode two is the edible complex. Shauna continues to talk to Jackie's corpse, even to the point of dressing it up with makeup. Jackie's ghost taunts her about how hungry she is. Taisa insists that it's time to cremate Jackie and move on.

[00:21:19] Van saves Taisa from sleepwalking off a cliff. She recommends they talk to Lottie, but Taisa refuses. Natalie fakes Javi's death to Travis by smearing a pair of his shorts with her own blood. Jackie's body is burned on a pyre, but a deluge of snow slows the flame and cooks the body. Succumbing to their hunger. Succumbent to their hunger, the team eats her corpse while Coach Ben watches in horror.

[00:21:44] In the present day timeline, Shauna is questioned by Kevin about Adam's disappearance. Callie flirts with a man named Matt, who unbeknownst to her is a detective working with Kevin. The anonymous citizen detective locates Misty at her job and invites her to join him on Adam's case. Sammy visits Taisa unprompted, but when Simone arrives to pick him up, they cannot find him.

[00:22:11] Taisa and Simone are involved in a car accident after it is revealed Taisa had hallucinated Sammy's visit. Lottie tells Natalie about Travis's death, but Natalie suspects she is hiding the truth. There's one scene in this episode I feel like stands out. Oh, the feasting scene? That was such an interesting scene, not just because it was the final descent into cannibalism,

[00:22:38] but the way that it was depicted as this Roman, Maynard fever dream, where they were all dressed in these goddess robes and gold ornaments and laurels and things. And it was a big, beautiful, like celebratory feast. And then it was intercut with these like animalistic moments of them, like ripping Jackie's body apart. It was incredibly powerful TV. Good choice.

[00:23:06] And I think that so fits because I still think that this series, one of the big themes is how, how just examining how people who are doing things that outsiders look at and go, that's crazy, or that's really dark, or I just don't understand how anybody could ever do that. And then seeing how that could actually happen, examining or believe in supernatural things or whatever it is.

[00:23:34] And so the reason why that stuff can happen is when you're in it, you're, you feel emotionally different about it, you know, because whatever has led you to it, like starvation, you know? And so just kind of showing that for them, this is what it feels like. For us, it looks like a horror, but for them, it's like this just satiating feast. Just, you know, there's just so much of this series where there's different aspects of that same theme.

[00:24:02] I think different perspectives, perceiving things in different ways and things like that, which I love. But I, and I also, what I remember about that scene is that the aroma of the body, they did such a good job. It reminded me of those old Looney Tunes cartoons where like the wolf, there's an aroma of something going through the air. And one of the characters smells it and starts floating towards it, you know? Yeah. It did remind me of that, how it woke them all up.

[00:24:31] And they did a really good job with the, the way they showed the series of events leading to the body being roasted with, there was like something, the wind moved. And then I remember the camera came in from above and we watched the snow drop on the body. And it had this, this thing where it was like, wait, did an entity make the snow drop or is this just a coincidence? It had that little bit of supernatural tinge that this show does so well. Yeah.

[00:25:00] Before they cremate Jackie, they kind of have like a funeral of sorts for Jackie and Javi. And Shauna and Travis both say their goodbyes to them. I thought that was really sweet and poignant. And we see Lottie gaining followers in the young timeline. Travis and Van are really coming to depend on Lottie for, for keeping them going.

[00:25:28] So we see that kind of growing and growing. I remember we had a lot of conversation at the time about the car accident and whether or not Taisa intentionally crashed, crashed the car or dark Taisa took over regular Taisa and crashed the car. There was like a look on her face right before it happened when she was looking at Simone, kind of an evil look.

[00:25:54] And we had a lot of discussion about whether or not she was accelerating, like in order to cause the crash or not. It's, I guess it's not a hundred percent clear. It appeared to be that way. Like she certainly wasn't doing anything to not crash. Right. It didn't look negligent. It looked purposeful to me. Yes, I agree. Yeah. Do you guys remember what I thought? Because. I don't remember what I thought. I don't remember.

[00:26:23] Taisa may have done that on purpose, but I don't know. The only thing I'd add to that is that Lottie and Nat, adult Lottie and Nat have this big long conversation about Travis's death. And I didn't think Lottie was telling the truth. And I think maybe we still don't know, but I don't know. Yeah. What was it that Travis was trying to. Like it was an accident. The button didn't. He was trying to do some ritual to. Oh God.

[00:26:53] I forgot. And she needed to push the button. And when she pushed the button, it didn't work. Didn't work or something. But it just seems fishy. And then she saw like a ghost of Laura Lee. Right. Yeah. I feel like there might still be more to come about. I hope so. Cause it feels unresolved. Yeah. Yes. But maybe that's it. Maybe that's it. Also just Taisa insisting that it's time to cream it. Jackie. I'm sure she was really pissed at Shauna for putting lipstick on Jackie's corpse.

[00:27:23] And posing her and stuff like that. And I don't know. It's, it is weird, but you'd think she could have a little more compassion, but I, I still, I like that Taisa is in there because she's more of a skeptic and pragmatic. And, um, that I feel that's more personally aligned with how I am. So I kind of identify with her. So I was going to say this when we say our hopes, but, um, I hope that she keeps that attitude. In season three.

[00:27:53] I think she had good intentions. Just like, I think Nat had good intentions when she faked Javi's death, but she shouldn't have done that. I was going to say, I think they all have good intentions, but you can't always say that about Misty. No, no. All right. Sometimes, but not always. Um, season two, episode three digestif. Taisa has no memory of eating Jackie and is horrified to learn. She participated while in her fugue state.

[00:28:21] Natalie disposes of Jackie's remains at the crash site. She encounters a white moose, but it disappears as she tries to shoot it. A sleepwalking Taisa tells Van about the one with no eyes. Misty strengthens her bond with Crystal, who we didn't talk about new girl. A delirious Ben imagines life. If he had stayed behind with his boyfriend, Paul, the team throws Shauna, a baby shower, but birds began to fall from the sky when her nose bleeds on the symbol stitched into her blanket.

[00:28:50] That symbol of whatever it is, the triangle and the circle and the hook. Right. Uh, Lottie suggests their blessings from the woods, the birds and the president, Shauna and Jeff are carjacked, but Shauna disarms the perpetrator before he drives off. She tracks down the car at a scrap yard and intimidates the owner at gunpoint. Jeff attempts, but fails to get Kevin to back off from Shauna was Simone in the hospital. Taisa's left to confront her fugue alter ego. What?

[00:29:19] What does that mean? Remember the scene? Taisa was in, she was in the hospital bathroom and she's looking in the mirror and then her dark self is like looking back at her and does that hand thing where she covers half her face. It's almost indicating, I want to see van. Like, uh, uh, what we used to call like a multiple personality disorder. That's kind of what they're alluding to. Yeah. Yeah. Now it's called dissociative identity disorder, I think. Um, okay. Misty meets Walter,

[00:29:49] the citizen detective. The two interrogate Randy Walsh about Natalie's disappearance. Lottie introduces Natalie to her support group, but her hallucinations begin to return. That's when she saw the, she pulled the, what are those slats of bees? Oh yeah. And it was all bloody blood all over. I thought it was interesting that ties blackouts, sleepwalking, whatever you're going to call it, were increasing in both timelines. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:30:17] And they seem to have been in remission. I think if I remember right, ever since they got back until now, 2021 current time, at least that's what she tells Shauna that it hasn't happened since then. The girls throw a baby shower for Shauna. Very sweet. So sweet. So sweet. I loved meeting Ben's boyfriend, Paul. He seemed great. Like, yeah, Ben, I would fall in love with Paul too. He seems adorable and sweet. Like nothing wrong with Paul.

[00:30:47] It was just a, it was great to have like this completely new character out of nowhere to get attached to. And those continue until the end of that season. Yeah. We see a lot more. I'm surprised they spent so much time on that. Well, it was all about Paul. Paul wanting Ben to commit more, wasn't it? Mm-hmm. Well, and, and Ben's choices. And to come out. Had, had Ben chosen to quit his job and go live with Paul. Yeah.

[00:31:16] He would not be in that situation, which is what I think. He's thinking about it. Yeah. Like, oh, yeah. And he's fantasizing about what that would have been like. And I, who can blame him? If I was stuck in that situation, I would be constantly trying to mentally not be there. Yeah. And maybe ruminating over, especially if there was a big life choice like that, where you took one fork in the road and wishing you'd actually taken the other fork. Right.

[00:31:45] Misty does a rendition of Sally Field's monologue in Steel Magnolias. And it is wonderful. That's right. It's really, really good. That's right. I forgot about that. The actress did an amazing job. Like, it sounds exactly like Sally Field. Mm-hmm. And I think everybody was impressed and kind of shocked, right? Yeah. How good she did. Misty and Crystal's growing friendship was so cute to watch. And, you know,

[00:32:13] it's hard to know how to feel about Misty, right? She's, she's psychotic. And she started out that way. Like, we can't blame her psychosis on trauma because she was already crazy when they got there. But there are times when you just hurt so much for her, like her loneliness and her neediness. And, you know, seeing her make a friend and, and actually have some joy in that friendship is, is so sweet. And there's a part of me that's like, Oh,

[00:32:42] maybe Crystal will keep Misty from being a psychopath. Mm-hmm. But then we know that adult Misty is still a psychopath. Yeah, I know. That's right. I mean, it's kind of like, uh, uh, forgive me if, no, if you haven't watched the walking dead, but we're doing a rewatch of the walking dead right now. And we're up to the governor episodes and where he lost his daughter. And he, you know, you, for me, I feel bad for him sometimes like, Oh man,

[00:33:10] you had this little zombie daughter and you were hoping she would come back and you lost her. And it's heartbreaking, but he's also a total psychopath, you know? So, um, I kind of enjoy letting myself do that and really try hard not to forget what the person did. So I don't just totally be on their side, like, um, with him, you know, like, nah, he's a bad guy, but I still, I can feel the humanity in there sometimes. Uh, Misty's kind of like that for me too.

[00:33:38] I know most people just love her, but I'm like, man, you killed Jessica. That's, I can't forgive that, you know? Uh, Jessica kind of had it coming, but, um, I just totally disagree with that. I feel like Jessica's killed Jessica. We don't know that. Like I was thinking about today. Um, Taisa hired someone to go around and check and make sure that none of the other yellow jackets were talking because she wanted to run for office. Right?

[00:34:04] So she was investigating and then Misty kidnapped her and held her hostage for days and then gave her a poison cigarette and killed her. That's not cool. No, it's not. I'm not saying it's cool. I'm just saying that in the scale of people who get killed on this show that I feel bad about, Jessica's like towards the bottom. Yeah. I could say that, but to me, that is still very high. Yeah. Uh, it's all, it's a different yardstick watching yellow, yellow jackets, right?

[00:34:34] Like there's so much mayhem and, and psychosis going on that you have to sort of like stack rank the weirdness and evil. Right. And the stories are so delicious that it's hard to like feel real feelings that you're supposed to feel. Yeah. See, yeah, not, I know for most people, that's how it is. Um, any, I don't know. It kind of is for me, but I don't want to let myself go there.

[00:35:01] I don't want to let myself be callous about a human being being murdered just because it's fun. Fictional human being. Yeah. I don't know if I would say, if I would say it's callous as much as I probably have an overabundance of compassion for Misty. Sure. Like I, I feel like, and I do this in lots of different ways. And I did this on the Agatha all along podcast.

[00:35:26] Sometimes I spend so much time trying to understand the villain that I start to love them. And then I'm like, Oh no, I love a villain. Right. Like it, I'm, I'm fascinated and I'm compassionate. And then those two things layer on top of each other until I get to this place where I'm like, Oh, I love this person. I just think if you, and yeah, it's fiction, so we can treat it differently. But if you met any person and got to know them well,

[00:35:56] well, you could, you could feel a bond with them, even, you know, serial killers or whoever, you know, like maybe, maybe not that bad of a person, but people who've done really bad things, you know? Yeah. Especially somebody like, like Misty, who's got more of a sociopath thing going on where she's able to present socially acceptable behavior. She knows what that is. She just doesn't see the point in it most of the time, unless it's an act.

[00:36:25] It's like, it's kind of chilling. Yeah. But, but also I think it's that thing that we all have where Misty is, take away the sociopath pieces, but Misty's different. And she's ostracized because of her differences. Even the ones that aren't bad. And you can see how that, how, you know, all of the bullying and the being made fun of has really harmed her.

[00:36:54] And it's hard because probably all of us have had a little of that. And it's hard not to feel empathy for that. Absolutely. I mean, I completely agree. And she's, she's like, I've felt eager and wanting to fit in and having that eagerness be the thing that caused the people not to accept me. You know, that happens to her a lot where they're just like, you're try hard or whatever. And, and so, yeah, I can totally. you're a suck up. Yeah. But then I try, like I can,

[00:37:24] I can identify with all that and feel for her, but then I make it a point to go, but she still killed an innocent person. So I can't, you know, she deserves stabs consequences for those actions. And among other things like destroying the black box and poisoning coach and tripping coach that one time just to like make a point to him. Like she's a psycho. Yeah. I'm not going to lose sight of that. She's constantly hurting him. Yeah. And I'm not like,

[00:37:53] I'm not sitting here saying, oh yeah, we should have no, like you shouldn't care about her at all or anything like that. I'm just talking about myself and not wanting to forget because I think there's two different things. There's vibe and then there's actions. And maybe in real life, actions are more important than vibe. And on a TV show, vibe is more important than actions. But I try not to lose track of both. Yeah. I was just thinking, I mean, it might be equally dangerous to be somebody Misty hates and somebody Misty loves.

[00:38:23] Yeah. Your best bet is to be someone that Misty thinks is boring. Yes. That's probably the safest category. category. All right. Yeah. I feel like, man, I'd almost know. I was going to say what I want to hang out with her just for the challenge of it, but it might be too dangerous. Yeah. But she is intriguing. More smarter than all of us. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's go on to the next one, huh? All right. Season two, episode four,

[00:38:53] old wounds. When part of the team begins to favor Lottie's mysticism over Natalie's hunting skills, the two girls compete by going on separate hunts. Lottie quickly becomes hypothermic and has a vision of Laura Lee and the team. Natalie finds the white moose encased under a frozen lake. She and the team try to pull it out, but it sinks. Sorry, just reliving that heartbreak. She and Lottie tentatively make amends. Meanwhile,

[00:39:22] Van makes a map of all the strange symbols Taisa has found and estimates where the last one could be. They instead find a disoriented Javi and bring him back to camp. In the present, Shauna, pressed by Callie, confesses the truth to her about Adam's death. Natalie bonds with Lisa, a cult member, she had attacked earlier. Misty and Walter camp out at a bed and breakfast near Lottie's compound. Lottie's psychiatrist suggests she pay attention to her hallucinations.

[00:39:53] Taisa follows her fugue self's intuition and hitchhikes to a small town in Ohio where she sees Van for the first time in years. Yeah, I remember being so really happy that Lauren Ambrose, they picked her to play Van. What a great choice. We were waiting for her. Yeah. I mean, the internet manifested that, right? Like everybody on the internet was like, by the way, when you cast Van, it's going to have to be Lauren Ambrose. And she had either just,

[00:40:21] the series servant that she was in had either just wrapped or was just about to. And that's a M night Shyamalan, Apple TV plus creepy series where she played a completely different type of character and was really good in that too. So it was really fun to see, just to have watched that and then see her transform into Van and really channel. I feel like she's one of the best at channeling the vibe of the younger self. Yeah. I think that, that pairing is, is miracle.

[00:40:51] It's great. I think Shauna too. Like even the way Shauna talks is so similar in both timelines. They're all pretty good at it. Yeah. Yeah. Because then I think about Misty, adult and child, a teen Misty. There are times when it's uncanny. Yeah. The movements and gestures. And I feel like, um, who plays, uh, Nat, uh, Sophie, I forget. Sophie Thatcher. Turner. Thatcher. Sorry. Thatcher.

[00:41:21] Right. Turner is the Sophie from Game of Thrones. That's right. She, uh, I feel like she got more like Juliette Lewis as the series went along maybe. Yeah. But, um, anyway, this episode, I really, the vision of Laura Lee and the team that stands out, weren't they in like in a mall or something? And it was just so jarring. They were like having lunch at a mall food. Court. So weird. That was pretty cool. But I loved, especially Shauna confessing to Callie saying just full out. All right.

[00:41:51] No more secrets. I killed Adam, but he was blackmailing my friends. Oh wait, no, that's a lie. Actually. He, he wasn't the black killer, but at first I thought he was, Oh my fucking God, you killed a person like an innocent person. You did not deserve to die. Uh, yeah. Yeah. She drives them out to like the middle of the street. And just like lays it all on the line for Callie. It's a great scene. And then she said, you know, well, we didn't want, he was blackmailing. All right.

[00:42:21] I thought he was blackmailing me and we didn't want anyone to know because we did some things out there that we're ashamed of. I liked how they handled that. And then she's like, I, I, Oh, maybe I'll tell you that some other time, but can this just be enough for now? That was good. Keep all the secrets for the show. I thought the way that Nat loses the moose is very reminiscent of the way Javi dies later. Right. Yeah. And that's what I thought about when I watched it. Yeah. I think that's probably, um, on purpose.

[00:42:50] And with Javi, there was that element of don't lose this one. You know, they waited until he died. We'll get to that. but to, cause he was thrashing around in there and then they all just sort of agreed without saying anything. Oh, we're not going to save him. And then a Susie died. Get him. Yeah. Yep. The moose scene was so beautiful that that moose was so majestic. And when it was frozen sort of half in half out of the lake,

[00:43:20] it looked like this beacon of hope, right? Like we can eat that. That's so much meat on a moose. Like, right. It's huge. And then to see them try so hard and lose it. And it sinks so slowly into that blue icy lake was just, it made me hurt physically. Like I was like, Oh, that's all their hope is gone. It's so sad. Nat's anguish was so real. Right. So good. And it leaves them in a place more susceptible to cannibalism,

[00:43:49] which I'm sure is what the writers were thinking. Like, Oh God, we're really desperate now. Yeah. I like the way Nat and Lottie came together at the end of that young Nat and Lottie. And worked things out between them. Yeah. Yeah. I don't remember that scene. Yeah. They're in the bath. Lottie's in the bath. yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Cause Lottie had hypothermia, so they needed to warm her up. Mm hmm.

[00:44:17] And Ty and Van find Javi who isn't speaking at all. Mm hmm. I think that's the very end. Yeah. I was surprised about that. And Lottie kept saying that Javi was alive and Nat was pissed at her for saying that and giving Travis false hope, but it turned out to be true. And, you know, another thing I really like about this series is that it has this possibly supernatural element,

[00:44:47] but it doesn't really confirm it. Um, and then I was thinking, I know there's some things that, that Lottie predicted in this season that seemed like it had to be supernatural. So, but I, I still think the, um, intention of the writers is that we don't know for sure. And there, there is some things that Lottie said that weren't true, that didn't come to pass because she did keep saying there's a new life coming. We're going to meet him. You know,

[00:45:15] we're all going to take care of him and stuff like that. And then we know what happened with Sean's baby. So, um, well, she was right that it was a boy. She's right. This boy. Yeah. But it could be things. I mean, that's a 50, 50 chance, but there's other things that it seems too spooky to be, to not have some supernatural element to it, you know? Mm hmm. And it was chilling. The scene with her psychiatrist, when the psychiatrist was like, well,

[00:45:43] maybe you should listen to your hallucinations. Maybe they have something important to tell you. I remember at the time being like, that is malpractice. Like who is this psychiatrist who is like giving her this horrible advice? And, you know, later in the season, of course, it's revealed that there's no one sitting there. That's just Lottie. It's Lottie. That reminds me of this comedian, Emo Phillips, who had this line, something like, you know, I was thinking that the brain is such a wondrous and amazing thing. And then I, and then I thought, yeah, but look,

[00:46:13] who's telling me that. I like the arc of Misty and Walter checking into the Airbnb. I think it's, it's, it's an amazing scene with them both checking out the room. Yeah. Parallel. Their citizen detective selves. Rom-com. And it was like a real nice light scene. We didn't get a lot of light scenes in this show. So I really liked that. And the music is great. And they're,

[00:46:43] they're a good example where I have to sort of bifurcate my feelings because I think he is a despicable person for killing Kevin, even though he was doing it to protect. Cause Kevin's such a good guy, but also he's charming as hell and super funny. And I laugh at his lines and I enjoy watching the rom-com-iness of it, you know? So, and I don't want to lose that. So I have to keep both of those. He seems so perfect for Misty and knowing that she has been lonely for so long. And that, you know,

[00:47:12] with Natalie's death that she really needs some support right now. I'm like, Oh good. She has Walter. And I'm like the murderer. Like it's right. Sort of classic yellow jacket. Maybe that's perfect guy for her. It's so sweet. Like two psycho killers found each other. I don't think they're going to live happily ever after. It doesn't seem possible. I think there's some big plot lines coming up for those two. I think, um,

[00:47:40] Elijah would just got married recently or something. Oh, really? Cool. I think so. Yeah. I don't know for sure. I just saw somebody posted Frodo got married. So I presume that meant him. Oh. All right. Two truths and a lie. Season two, episode five. Lottie hosts meditation sessions for the team. They helped Taisa with her sleepwalking, but Shauna fears she is losing Ty's support. Javi refuses to speak to the team,

[00:48:07] but tells Ben that his friend did not want him to return. Misty admits to Crystal that she destroyed the plane's emergency transmitter. When Crystal reacts coldly, Misty threatens her and accidentally backs her off the ledge of a cliff. Shauna and Ty get caught in a snowstorm and use Lottie's meditation techniques to return to camp. Once inside, Shauna goes into labor. In the present timeline,

[00:48:37] Callie realizing Matt is a policeman tells him that Shauna was sleeping with Randy. Shauna stages a tryst in a motel room, but Kevin and Matt uncover the ruse. Taisa tells Van her sleepwalking has returned and Van offers her support. Misty and Walter find Natalie who rebuffs them. Walter tells Misty his theories about Adam's case. She sends him away and goes back to Lottie's compound.

[00:49:05] Lottie helps Natalie recall the last time she saw Travis. I loved the moment with Misty and Crystal because they, it's really sweet that they're developing this friendship. And then it just makes Misty want to be more vulnerable and revelatory. And she comes out with that. She destroyed the black box and the way that Crystal reacts like,

[00:49:35] what the fuck, man, you're crazy. And I'm like, yeah, I think we've all had moments like that too, where you say something thinking it's going to be accepted and it's like totally not. And it's like, Oh yeah. I've never killed anyone. Now I have to kill this person. I mean, I don't think she, even in that moment intended to kill her. That was definitely an accident. I agree. She was just trying to frighten her. I agree. Yeah. Maybe there was a part of her that's like, well now I don't have to deal with this.

[00:50:03] But what would she have done if Crystal was like, no, I'm going to go back and tell everybody. She may have killed her then. It's hard to know. Right. And then she definitely didn't even try to present it as an accident. And it would have been a pretty believable accident, especially once the storm started to be like, Crystal stumbled and fell off the cliff. Yeah. Instead, she fully covers it up. And then she, they remember they go on that fake, like after the storm clears, they go out looking for Crystal. And she's like, Crystal, Crystal,

[00:50:33] knowing full well she's dead. That is where she's psychotic. Maybe that. She did that because she heard, them talking about her. Right. There's like, Oh, at least we can eat her if she's dead. Well, no, they were talking about her and they were saying that they thought Misty might've done something. So she did that to distract them, to divert attention away from her. And I even thought when I was watching it, you know, I get to the point in these, some of these shows where I'm like, is it real? Is it not real? I don't know. Like,

[00:51:03] were they really saying that or was that paranoia on her part? I wasn't sure. Yeah. Cause there are, they were all hallucinating. Yeah. Right. But whether they were not, if that's what she was thinking, then it makes more sense that she didn't just fudge the truth a little and say, Oh, we were walking on this ledge and she slipped. Cause then everybody might doubt that she was telling the truth. I think that she pushed her. Right. And, and at first they were really complimentary, which she was soaking all in. They were like, wow,

[00:51:31] Misty was so great in delivering Shauna's baby. and, and she's like, you could see it. She's real happy in her face. And then they started saying, yeah, but what about crystal? Like, where is she? And, and you, you know, she just changed completely. Yeah. That wasn't all in Shauna's dream. Was it? No, this is, no, this is before. And you know what? We're, we're taught. Some of this was in the next episode. Yeah. Okay. Um, yeah. And this one, Shauna and Ty, the reason they,

[00:51:59] they are out when this snore storm starts is Shauna is really angry at Ty because Ty is going to Lottie's like prayer meetings or whatever. And it's all Shauna, this like division, this, this competitiveness. She's like, if you support Lottie, you can't support me. And like, why introduce that? Right. Yeah. She's creating the, the factions. They wouldn't exist really otherwise.

[00:52:27] Like there was some competition between Natalie and Lottie, but they worked it out. But Shauna is like, she's a divisive person. I wish we had taken the time to do a full rewatch of this now with, and talked about it. Spoiler with, spoilers, knowing what happened later on, you know, because I think we would have probably appreciated things early on in a, in a different way and stuff like that. Oh yeah. It would have been cool. Maybe we can still do it some other time. That's true.

[00:52:57] Yeah. I noticed when I watched seasons one and then season two, in a relatively short period, like the tie-ins between seasons and between the timelines and how many things they bring back. It's so well done. Every minute is carefully crafted. It's got me really excited for season three. Yeah, I agree. Anything else about this one? I just loved Van's apartment.

[00:53:26] All her posters and her retro 80s and 90s stuff. Yeah. The video store. Mm-hmm. It's all very cool. Kitchy, cool. Yeah. I like the two truths and a lie game. I can't remember what. Walter tells three truths. Yeah. Yes. Of course he does. Kind of crazy. And then he's like, I told you three things about me. So now you have to tell me three things about you. And Misty's like, I didn't agree to that. All right. Should we move on?

[00:53:57] Yeah. Okay. Oh boy. Season two, episode six. Key. The Yellow Jackets volunteer, Misty to deliver Shauna's baby. Travis and Lottie create an altar and place offerings upon it. Shauna blacks out and gives birth to a baby boy. She has trouble breastfeeding due to her own starvation, but ultimately succeeds. Later that night, she hears chanting from downstairs and finds the team eating her baby.

[00:54:25] She then comes to revealing that she had dreamed the previous events and her baby did not survive. Shauna holds her stillborn and grieves, insisting that she can still hear him crying. In the present, Tyson notices Vans past due notices in the trash can, but van brushes it off. Misty calls tie from Lottie's compound. Natalie and Lisa talk about forgiveness. Sean and Callie are called to the police station for questioning. Shauna and Callie.

[00:54:55] Shauna admits to her affair with Adam while Callie falsely claims that Matt took her virginity. Jeff pushes Shauna to follow Ty and van to Lottie. Shauna, Taisa, van, Natalie, Misty, and Lottie all reunite at the compound. Oh, what an episode. I liked the way it starts.

[00:55:15] It starts with a flashback to school days in 96 with Ben showing a birth video and you can see his obvious discomfort in the whole situation. And he awkwardly asks if anyone has any questions and you can tell he's really hoping no one does. But of course, Misty Quigley is the OBGYN on call. So she has some questions. I just love that little snippet.

[00:55:45] And also in there was that Jeff was writing hookup notes to Shauna, which I thought was interesting because before this point, we kind of thought Shauna was mostly the initiator in that relationship. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you could see this was Jeff definitely initiating. Right.

[00:56:05] The thing about the coach teaching sex ed is great because it's just another situation where he's kind of out of his depth and forced into the situation that he doesn't want to have to deal with, you know, just on a much smaller scale. He's an adult, but he's not that much older than these high school kids. And so it's got to be incredibly uncomfortable. I was a substitute teacher when I was 24. 24.

[00:56:33] And it really just felt like we were almost peers. It was really weird. Sometimes my daughter taught at the high school that she went to. And I want to say it was right out of college. So she was probably 22 and it took a year or so before people stopped asking her if she had a pass for the hall. Wow. Yeah. It's a big school, you know, it's like 3000 kids. So. Oh God, that's cute though.

[00:57:02] She must be a baby face like you are. She is. Yes. So do we think that, do you guys like this episode as it is, or do you wish they kind of hadn't gone there? What would the, the dream of the cannibalizing the baby? Yeah. And then having it be stillborn. I liked it. Yeah. I, I, I feel like that was, they almost had to do that story. Mm hmm. Because.

[00:57:31] Shawna had been having, you know, other nightmares related to the baby. They're all hallucinating from hunger. Right. The trauma of it all. Like. It makes so much sense that she would have blacked out. And. She lost a lot of blood. Had that horrible vision while she was blacked out. It seemed like she had some kind of. Placental abruption or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. I was wondering about that because. At first it's Akilah who's trying to help her. Mm hmm.

[00:58:00] And she's like, and she starts to pull something out. And I was like, is that the placenta? That's too soon. And then the, the camera moves. And I went back and looked at it, but you couldn't really see. I think it was. And I, I think we talked about this. I don't think the baby had a shot ever. Really. Mm hmm. Um, but I think when I first watched this, I thought it was a dream. I thought it was a dream. I don't think I thought that healthy, big, giant baby boy was real.

[00:58:29] I was offended by the big baby. I remember this so well because. When she picks up the baby and holds it up to her chest, I was like, that is a six month old baby. Yes. Yeah. I was like, I hate it when TV shows try to like show us a newborn. And it's always this like giant baby. And then when it turns out to be a dream, I was like, Oh, they weren't being like, it wasn't a bad production moment. It was a dream. It was intentionally. They made it that way. Right. Yeah. Cause that's what Shauna was picturing. So sad.

[00:58:59] I just remember feeling, I agree with you. I think, um, this is the kind of show that goes there and they did. And, and it was good for the story. And I remember just feeling bad for anyone watching the show who lost a baby, you know, like, Oh my God, this has got to be a downer. Yeah. I mean, I think there are things that you fast forward when you've been, you know, hurt in some ways. And I,

[00:59:27] I feel like I remember listeners writing in and saying, no, they were okay with it. You know, you know, who've had experiences like this. Like I watch outlander, but I fast forward through a lot of parts that are terrible, you know, like she almost gets raped every episode. Um, another thing that stood out to me, this is when Misty confronts Lottie and says, yeah, I don't know if you're running a cult here, but just get Natalie. I'm taking her out of here right now.

[00:59:57] You're brainwashing her. And Lottie seemed kind of uncomfortable at first. Like, what are you doing here? Like, you know, like get out of here kind of energy. And then all of a sudden she shifts and goes, can you stay? Cause it could be really helpful for Nat. And you see Misty sort of taken aback because we know that she loves being helpful. That's her favorite thing. And I think Nat, uh, Lottie knows that too. And as any good, maybe pseudo sort of cult leader, she keyed right into the thing that would get her to do what she wanted her to do.

[01:00:26] I mean, maybe it was intentional. She really felt that way. Like, Oh, this could actually be helpful. Yeah. But she has a moment in that scene when Misty is sort of berating her and she's like, what, why are you even here? And then she sort of looks off like she's having maybe a vision. And then she's like, could you stay? And it's unclear if it's like an idea occurred to her or, you know, some intuition hallucination like came to her. Who knows? Yeah. I mean, to me, actually, honestly, what it read as was, Oh,

[01:00:55] we can work with this. Cause I've, I probably talked about it on the podcast before. I spent some time in groups sort of like this self-help groups where there were, uh, when there was ever anybody who was unhappy with anybody else, instead of, uh, you know, separating them, it would all be brought out into the space and we would work with it. And usually it would end up with hugs happening at the end. You know, it was crazy. I think we could use a lot more of that. Yeah.

[01:01:26] All right. Next one. On to season two, episode seven, burial. Shauna buries her stillborn child and grieves for him and Jackie. The team sets out on a half-hearted mission to find crystal unaware of what happened to her earlier. Van admits to Taisa, her doubts about survival. Misty goes to the spot where crystal died only to find her body is now missing. She then talks Ben out of committing suicide.

[01:01:54] After Shauna punches Misty and accuses everyone of eating her baby. Lottie encourages Shauna to let out her pain on her. Shauna beats Lottie unconscious while the team looks on in shock. In the present, everyone is assigned a form of therapy at Lottie's compound. Misty uses an isolation tank and talks to a human version of her bird Caligula. She later calls Walter and confirms his theories about Adam's disappearance. Taisa and Van share a kiss,

[01:02:24] but Van reveals that she has terminal cancer and will be dead within months. Lottie realizes her psychiatrist is merely another hallucination. The women discuss what they might have repressed from their time in the wilderness and dance around a campfire. Jeff calls Shauna and reveals that the authorities have found Adam's body. Great episode. Speaking of scenes, I needed to fast forward the scene with Shauna. Yeah. Yeah. Shauna beating.

[01:02:53] I had to fast forward that. It was too much. It's really brutal. I, for me, the worst scene though is Ben, when he says to Misty, could you just push me off? It's just, it's heartbreaking. He is in such a horrible state and he's despairing, but to ask a 16 year old girl to kill you is brutal. Knowing what he knows about her,

[01:03:20] it's almost like he is punishing her for everything. Yeah. I don't think he cared about much at that point. Yeah. It's messed up. Some people didn't like the Caligula thing, but I thought it was fun. Yeah. I don't know if I liked it or didn't not like it. It was bizarre. It was fine. I like bizarre. Yeah. Yeah. It was very twin peaksy. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Yeah.

[01:03:47] I love that Lottie realized her psychiatrist was another hallucination. I, I like things like that where like, in the shining when you see his novel and that from the very beginning, he's just been writing all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. It's like, Oh my God, things were fucked up way before we realized it. Right. Yeah. On all the pages and the pages and the pages. Yeah. I think I called that. Yeah. Psychiatrist was not real. Yeah.

[01:04:17] You guys were saying it. Yeah. I was like, no. I think when she was like, listen to your hallucinations, we were all like, that's, yeah, that's a clue. I think that we should pay attention to that. Is this the episode when Lisa gives Natalie a fish to take care of? I don't know if this is it, but I really liked that arc. Yeah. Yeah. I liked Lisa too. Absolutely. I liked Lisa a lot too. Yeah. And, and that together, they were good for each other. Especially consider,

[01:04:47] I mean, it was really interesting to see the progression of, of their friendship, given that it started with Nat stabbing a fork through her hand. Yeah. Lisa's hand. And then Lisa just forgives her right away and. Mm-hmm. Is so sweet to her. And Natalie was sweet too. Yeah. They connected. Like it was really genuine connection between the two of them. Yep. Mm-hmm. I thought in this episode,

[01:05:12] we see a couple of the random yellow jackets talking about if they did find Crystal. Crystal. And she's dead. And it's this unspoken connotation that, yeah, they're going to eat her. Yeah. So I thought that was like. It's Melissa and Jen. Yeah. Another, another progression to where we end up is there. They're already deciding that. Mm-hmm. I mean, if you're starving and you've already eaten a person. Yeah. Right.

[01:05:41] There's not much barrier. Like murder is the only taboo left there. Right. So if somebody is already dead, there's like, they're going to rush that body to the oven. Yeah. Yes. Yep. It's alive. That movie alive. Yeah. But then, yeah. Then. So now, well, I mean, we're already, I was surprised at this season, how far we got, because like what you're saying, you know, yeah, if you're in the winter, there's no food,

[01:06:11] there's a person's already dead. So how are we going to get to the very first scene in the series where they're chasing someone through the woods into a pit of spikes to kill them. But man, we kind of got there at the end of this season. Yeah. Well, and they've already progressed nine or 10 months into a 19 month stay. Yeah. So that's pretty, you know, it's halfway there. Yeah. I just don't know what other,

[01:06:39] I'm sure the show is going to surprise us with some things, but what, what else is Shauna ashamed of that they did out there? I'm sure it's not just the things that we're already speculating. There's probably more. Yeah. Yeah. Because up until now, everybody for the most part has agreed to the program. The people that drew those cards had agreed that whoever gets it is going to get eaten. And even though she ran,

[01:07:09] it was all part of the agreement. Right. Although like when I say that, then I like automatically want to go back on it because that was not the plan. And Javi was the one who paid. Yeah. Right. But they, they saw that as, as a fair outcome because the wilderness chose Javi. Yeah. I guess. Because they need Natalie to survive or whatever. Yeah. But. Yeah. They're already twisting it to. Yeah.

[01:07:39] To fit their needs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Like this show. Yeah. It shows us how you could see something from the outside and go, wow, that's fucked up. But then understand the progression of what would get people to accept it. Yeah. Yeah. Because they've got this whole thing about the spirit of the wilderness guiding them and everything. Yeah. Which may actually be happening. We don't really know. I thought it was quite entertaining watching all of the adult yellow jackets do their self-care tasks. I enjoyed that,

[01:08:09] those pieces of it and watching them like dance together and drink together. I, I, I liked that. I thought it brought some lightness to what's going to be several heavy episodes after this. And Natalie has this moment where she's like, you guys, let's talk about it. We've never talked about it. And we're the only people we can talk to about it is each other. Like, is it time? Kind of like the first meeting of group therapy. And you get this feeling in that scene. Like, you're like, oh my God,

[01:08:38] that this would help them. Like they actually do need to do this. And then that's when Lottie comes in with her like tray of glasses and is like, I know what we need to do. Tea, Russian roulette. And it's like, oh no, we're not going to have group therapy. Nevermind. Yeah. But I, I do remember feeling like, oh, this feels good to have everybody together here. Cause we hadn't really seen that until this episode. I don't think.

[01:09:05] And then Taisa and Van kiss adult Taisa and Van and Van tells Taisa that she has incurable cancer. Yeah. And only has months to live. Did she say what kind? No, I don't think she did. I really enjoyed that. Shawna thought that her therapy was going to be to take care of that baby goat all day and then kill the goat.

[01:09:31] Like she was so sure that they were going to make her kill the goat. And she was so angry about it. It was just really entertaining to watch. Mm-hmm. I liked all those parts. All right. Season two, episode eight. It chooses. The yellow jackets struggle with hallucinations and paranoia. Coach Ben discovers hobby survived by living in a cave hidden underneath a tree. Lottie grievously injured from Shawna's attack.

[01:10:01] Tells the team not to waste her body if she dies. Taisa suggests they must find another way to survive, which culminates in the survivors drawing cards to determine who will be killed. Natalie draws the queen of hearts. But before Shawna can sacrifice her, Travis pushes Shawna out of the way. Natalie escapes the cabin and is chased through the woods. Javi trying to help her falls through the frozen lake.

[01:10:28] The yellow jackets let him drown, leaving Natalie spared. In the present, the police obtain a search warrant for the Sudeikis house. Kevin and Matt question Jeff. Later, Jeff reveals the truth about Shawna's stillborn child to Callie. Walter emails the police telling them he has information about Adam's disappearance before leaving for Lottie's compound.

[01:10:52] In Lottie's sharing shack, Shawna admits that Jeff was the blackmailer instead of Adam. Taisa reveals she hired Jessica Roberts to investigate the survivors. And Misty reveals the truth of the reporter's death. Lottie insists the wilderness is demanding a sacrifice and presents a choice of six cups, one containing phenobarbital to the women. Just a normal day. I like them all getting the truth out.

[01:11:21] That felt good. Yeah. About everything. Because they had a lot of secrets with each other as well. Yeah. That's right. It did feel good. The drinking scene was really funny when, I think it's Lottie, he's like, where did you get that alcohol? Or Natalie, where did you get that alcohol? And Shawna's like, from Van? Like, they suddenly became teenagers, the way they were, like, sneaking the bottle around. And you could sort of see their younger selves in their older selves. It was very cute. Yes.

[01:11:51] Let's see. Lottie, at one point, appeared pretty close to death. She was really beat up. And Misty seemed to be the person that was taking care of her. They're all starving. They're boiling leather belts. Wow. Yeah. Put me out. I had a question about season three. We see Coach in his tree cave.

[01:12:17] Do you think that's where he still is in season three? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And Natalie knows where that is. No, he didn't tell her. Travis was taking her. I mean, Javi was taking her there. Yeah, Javi was taking her. But they didn't make it there. But then he fell through the ice. Okay. So she... But I thought he showed her the maps that Javi drew. No, he said, I can show you. But he didn't actually show her. Yeah, I don't think they know where it is.

[01:12:46] In this episode, there's a lot of people. In this episode, there's also an amazing scene between Jeff and Callie, where Jeff fills Callie in on the baby that died in the wilderness. And they have this moment where he says, you know, that's your mother's burden. And I guess mine. But it doesn't have to be yours. And I spent a lot of time thinking about that. Like, is there any way that Callie isn't going to be burdened by this truth, this like generational

[01:13:15] trauma that she has inherited? It's not like she could be like, oh, that's my mom's problem. And like go on with her life. I mean, it's very sweet of Jeff to give her permission not to feel burdened by it. But I don't think it's realistic. I think kids are burdened, even if you don't want them to be. And even if you don't tell them what it is, they're burdened by knowing there's a secret that they don't know. Yeah. But I think it could help to hear that anyway. Just ease some of it anyway, you know?

[01:13:45] I agree. But I think Jeff is trying his absolute best in a situation for which he has no guidance and no precedent, right? Like there's no father handbook about like how to tell your daughter that her mother was a cannibal in the wilderness. Yeah. Yeah. He loves Callie. And you can see over and over again, he says, like we only have one kid and it's our job not to screw her up.

[01:14:13] Like, you know, he takes that seriously. He takes, and so many don't. Yeah. You know, he takes that role pretty seriously and he wants to be a good dad and he wants to do right by her. And by Shauna. He's incredibly protective and forgiving. I mean, he's angry with her for sleeping with Adam all season, but he also is like, I have your back. I will support you. I'm here for you. I'll lie for you. Like whatever it is. He's there. Yeah.

[01:14:41] He, he's going to take the fall for it even. Yep. I don't, I don't know if I'd do that. Yeah. Let me put it this way. There aren't a lot of people that I love that much. Yeah. I mean, if you. Maybe like two, three. Like I could see trying to hide, help somebody hide it, you know, but if one of us is going

[01:15:08] to have to go down, it's probably going to be better for the person who actually did it. That probably sounds awful, huh? But, uh, you're right. As long as Jenny's not listening, we're good. Yeah. And let me tell you, some of the things she's done. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah. I think Brian would definitely try to protect me, you know? Yeah. Oh, that's cute. Yeah. He'd hide the bodies with me. Yeah. Jenny and I hide each other's bodies for sure.

[01:15:38] Yeah. He'd be really mad at me. I'd get a big lecture, but he would help. All right. What else? Uh, I mean the whole thing about, well, we kind of touched on it already, but I, I remember feeling, I think I felt like, wow, they're already doing this running ritual so early and that seems like a bit of a leap from where they were, but I guess the whole season is just about them getting more and more desperate for food. So maybe it doesn't make sense.

[01:16:07] Um, and then just being so shocked at how it ended up with Javi there and them letting him drown and everything. But I mean, that fits with everything too. So I'm not saying it's a bad storytelling. I just, it was shocked by it. I mean, they were all starving and they all said yes to it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they had a choice. People could have said, I'm, I'm not doing that. Did Javi though? He drew a card. He drew a card. Yeah.

[01:16:37] Um, and then Shauna is the one who puts the necklace on Natalie, the heart necklace, uh, from the pilot and from Pit Girl. Mm-hmm. And, and then I think this is kind of unfair. They all draw cards, right? Natalie gets the queen card and then everyone's like, all right, Shauna, murder her. And Shauna's like, okay. You know, she's got the knife and they're all looking at her like, what's the big deal? Just murder her. Like do it. Right. Um, that's so much pressure. And like, just cause Shauna's the butcher doesn't mean she's like.

[01:17:07] The killer. The killer. Right? Like the murderer. Right. It's, uh, it's, it's brutal. And are we going to see her be the butcher in season three? Well, we saw her butcher in the next episode and it's. Right. Correct. Yeah. But I mean, that's, that's different than having an alive. Yeah. And then. Are we going to see her kill someone? Kill someone. Yeah. Yeah. But she does seem to be the character who knows how to cut up the bodies the best. Right.

[01:17:34] Because when they're getting rid of, uh, Adam's body, she's like, oh yeah, it all comes back or something. They commented on that. She says something like, it's like riding a really gross bicycle. And before that you assume there were deer, there was a bear, there were birds. Yeah. She was the butcher. She has been this whole time. With the snappy dialogue. I haven't seen a lot of, uh, Buffy the vampire slayer, but I feel like these writers would

[01:18:02] do a good job with a reboot of that show. Do you think maybe? Um, I, I think that there is definitely some shared DNA. There's these writers have definitely seen Buffy. There's some, some of the vibe of the like witty repartee and that Buffy features. I would not be opposed to them being involved in a Buffy reboot, but there's already a team of writers and a showrunner associated with that huge Buffy news that happened. I see it in the lighter moments.

[01:18:32] Yeah. Yeah. In the darker moments. I feel like Buffy didn't go that. But it was the nineties. So maybe it would have. Yeah. I mean, we were joking about this the other day in our text chain about a Buffy reboot and, and what they were going to do with one character and whether or not they would recast him. And I jokingly suggested John Bernthal for the recast for the character of Xander. And because I, I was looking at a list of actors in their forties and I saw his name

[01:18:58] and I just had this whole imagination of like a really dark, gritty reboot of Buffy where they go in a direction where John Bernthal would make sense. And these writers would be good for that, for that version that I imagined. Yeah. Did you, I didn't listen to your trailer episode because I didn't want to be spoiled. Did you mention still slaying? Probably.

[01:19:22] Well, just in case everybody listening, Penny, since we last, you know, podcasted on Yellow Jackets season two anyway, Penny started still slaying a Buffy verse podcast with Kara and a few other people, regulars come in there and it's really great. And it's, I think if you like Yellow Jackets, there's a pretty good chance you might be a Buffy fan and you should definitely go listen to that. Now they're talking about a reboot with Sarah Michelle Gellar coming up.

[01:19:52] Yeah. And Chloe Zhao directing the pilot. It's all really exciting news. Apparently they've been working on it for three years. So it's not like just a rumor. That's very cool. It's yeah. From what I can tell, it sounds like they have a good pilot, but it's not a done deal because there hasn't been a series order. So hopefully they will. Yeah. I think this scene where they let Javi die, like has stuck with me more than any other

[01:20:21] scene in this whole series. And what I thought about when I rewatched was the scene where in season one, where Natalie and Misty find Travis hanging. And at the time when I thought it was a suicide, which I kind of still do, I thought like in season one, when it happened, I thought it was about Nat.

[01:20:47] But when I finished both seasons, I thought it was all about Javi, that that was what tortured Travis all those years was how Javi died. Yeah. Yeah. Even though he wasn't there. Like, yeah, that's his brother. He still ate him. Right. Right. He takes a bite out of his heart. Right. That's for the raw part is what really got me. It's really hard.

[01:21:16] Yeah. And, um, and I just, I just so upset that they could let him die. You know? Yeah. It's just, it's just terrible. Yeah. And somebody was going to die in that moment. I, it's one of those, the many moments where Misty is the fastest thinker because she doesn't get horrified and that doesn't slow her down. Like the horror of the moment, she goes directly to what's the next step.

[01:21:46] And she so quickly calculates that Javi dies in this moment, Nat lives and Nat is more important to her. And, and because she's faster than everyone else, that's what happens. Right. And she loves Nat. Yeah. Even back then. And, and that was what she was thinking. She was thinking, I have to save Nat. Yeah. All right. Season two, episode nine, storytelling.

[01:22:14] The girls return Javi's body to the cabin where they dismember and begin to cook him. What was the song? Zombie. Zombie. Yeah. This is where it was. Lottie is alarmed by the team's decision to hunt each other, but Misty tells the team that Lottie approves. Coach Ben informs Natalie of Javi's hiding spot, but she tells him that he no longer belongs among them as he is a good person.

[01:22:41] Lottie tells the group that the wilderness no longer needs her as their leader because they can all communicate with it now and declares Natalie to be the new leader. While the yellow jackets are sleeping, the cabin is lit on fire, forcing them to evacuate and leaving them stranded with no shelter. I mean, I'll be shocked if it wasn't Coach who did that. He's standing right there. Yeah. And they saw him pick up a box of matches. Yeah. In the present, the women agree to proceed with Lottie's ritual, but secretly plan to botch

[01:23:11] the ritual and have Lottie committed. Walter lethally poisons Kevin at the compound and works with Jeff to frame him for a conspiracy, ending the investigation surrounding Adam Martin. Shauna draws the Queen of Hearts during the ritual and is chased by the others. Callie shoots Lottie in the shoulder to protect her mother and Tyson Van revealed that they called off the crisis team. They contacted for Lottie. Oh man. So fucked up.

[01:23:39] When Lisa arrives with a gun, Misty charges toward her with a phenobarbital injection, but Natalie jumps in the way and takes the injection dying in Misty's arms. Lottie is taken away by EMTs, but tells the women that the wilderness is pleased with their sacrifice and will reward them. Again, it's not safe to be loved by Misty. No. Natalie was her favorite person in the whole world. Yeah. Yeah. Tragic.

[01:24:06] That scene was so heartbreaking when somebody says, what do we do? I think Ty and Misty says nothing. It's too late. And she's just holding Natalie and looking into her eyes. It was the idea of knowing you're going to die and Misty looking at you. It's horrifying. No wonder like Natalie had those visions on the airplane. Because Natalie seemed to barely tolerate Misty, right?

[01:24:36] Yeah. That might even be too kind. And then to have her kill her, basically. And then have to look at her and cry. It's like, God damn you. When she had just gotten past being suicidal and she was like, no, now I want to heal. Right. Life is worth living again. Their opening scene is, hi Misty, you crazy fucking bitch. Yeah. In episode one. I hated the way Kevin dies here.

[01:25:06] Oh my God. Yeah. He deserved better. So much better. He deserved to live. I think we all would have been happier if they had killed Matt. But yes. No, not me. No. It was heartbreaking, actually, for Kevin to die that way. He was the, maybe the only character on the whole show who doesn't suck in some way. Right. He seems like a normal, decent guy. Good person, yeah.

[01:25:34] Like, not overly great, you know. Yeah, not unrealistic. He's like a divorced dad. He's like, you know, sort of motivated cop. But like, that's fine. He kind of admits his failings, you know. But he's on this show, so I'm sure he fucked up majorly at some point. We just don't know about it. But as far as we know. I did notice in this episode, and I'm sure I did before, but it just didn't hit home, was that Walter had blackmailed Matt. Yeah. Yes.

[01:26:04] He basically said, go along with my story, or he's going to come back on you. Right. And yeah, I still feel sort of PTSD from all the Matt talk of last season. And so now I wonder, like, is he just going to take that to heart and disappear? Or is he going to be right in the middle of the story, you know? Right. Yeah, I wonder that too. Yeah.

[01:26:29] Well, I did notice that he was off to the side during the police presence talking to somebody. And I kind of, like, the vibe of it was that he was going along. Yeah. And he was doing what Walter told him to do. So I am interested if, you know, if he wasn't in the trailer. Yeah. He may just be gone. Yeah. Yeah. I am interested to see what happened. But they might have just, like, wrapped that up with a bow and that's it. But I'm interested. It could go either way. Yeah.

[01:26:59] You could decide, no, I'm not going to sit here and take it, even though he did in the moment. But we'll see. Mm-hmm. What else? So Lottie had said, you know, that basically when they were all in the sharing tent or whatever, that their lives were messed up and they had to, quote, give it what it wanted, like the dark spirit of the forest to solve their problems. And then in this episode, Natalie dies and Lottie tells them, as she's about ready to get carted away, we gave it what it wanted.

[01:27:27] It is pleased with us. So that makes me wonder if the spirit is appeased now, or at least that's what it will seem like. And then will everybody's lives calm down? Like Van's cancer goes into remission. Yeah. Taisa stops sleepwalking. Shauna just let off the hook for killing Adam. Lottie stops hallucinating. Will all that stuff happen at first or not? It seems like maybe there will be a period of peace, but I don't know.

[01:27:53] I think that would be an interesting way for the story to go is that some of their problems do start clearing up and then it just will make us wonder more about the supernatural potential of the show. But that there will be a dark twist to that in some way. It's like the be careful what you wish for storylines. She specifically looked at Van and said, you'll see.

[01:28:19] So I'm guessing that Van's cancer will be the first thing. Yeah. I would not be surprised at that. But it can't last long. Yeah. It can't be nicey nice for too long. Right. No. No. I thought it was interesting that when Lottie comes to in the in the 96 timeline, 97, when she comes to and she's told what happened with Javi and the drawing of the cards and all of that, she's really upset.

[01:28:49] That was not what she intended. And I think she feels like it's all, you know, she's lost all control of it. And I think that's why she wants to give it to someone else. Yeah. And she gives it to Nat. Yeah. That was a weird decision, too. I didn't quite get that. I mean, I thought like over the course of the season, it seemed like Nat was clearly the

[01:29:16] more capable survival wise. So I thought maybe that was one reason why. And as Lottie said, you now all can commune with the spirits of the force. So you don't need me for that anymore. So now maybe I thought let's turn it over to someone who actually knows how to survive in tough circumstances or something. I think she seemed upset that they kind of took those actions in her name. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. And that was not what she wanted.

[01:29:45] And she seems obviously distressed that all of those things happened. And she's like, that's not what I wanted. That's not what I said. And Misty is like, you better not tell them that's how you feel because it's happened and it's too late now. Right. Misty sort of puts her in her place. Misty comes down and says, Lottie's really happy about all this. Right. That's a twist for me because I kept wanting to make Lottie evil because they kind of hinted at that at first.

[01:30:14] But that's what the show does. Like Jeff, perfect example. We thought he was a cheating asshole and he turns out to be the best husband ever. So maybe it's similar like that with Lottie here where it seems like she's going to lead them right into occult things. Well, she did like, you know, at the end of season one, she's like, has a bare heart, you know, on an altar and talking about the dark spirits or something like that. But I think she's harmful. I don't think she's, I don't think she means, I think she has good intentions.

[01:30:42] But even here, she didn't want them to do like you're saying that they did. Yeah. But she's clearly lost it in the modern timeline because the casual way she tells them all like, oh, we're just going to, one of us is going to die from fetabarbital. It'll be fine. Like, yeah. As if she doesn't even need to soften the blow or talk them into it. She just presents it as if like they'll all just go, oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:31:09] And I mean, it's because she, you know, had been really distressed at the blood hallucination on the bee thing and trying to fight that. But then at one point she says something like, I've been trying to fight it, but no, we need to embrace this. And so it feels like she decided I'm going to go right back into the craziness that, I mean, she wouldn't think about it that way, but of, of how we were in the wilderness.

[01:31:36] And I could see her thinking that the other women might go for that too. And I think Van and Lottie kind of did, right? Because they called off the crisis team or one of them. Yeah. I still don't understand what Van and Thaisa were thinking. And like, I understand Van's argument that, that they promised each other that they would take care of each other. And Van saying like, we can't just hand Lottie over to some like psych institution.

[01:32:05] She's our responsibility. That makes sense to me. But then being like, let's call off the crisis team, but still go through with the plan and not tell the others that we've called off the crisis team. I don't see how they thought that was going to play out. Like, what did they, did they think that whoever drew the card was actually going to get killed? Like, what did they think was going to happen? I don't understand it. I think maybe they thought they could stop her. But also, I think they see themselves in her.

[01:32:34] Like, any one of them could be put away in one way or another for what they've done. I get that completely. Yeah. But, and I get wanting to protect her. I just don't understand. Yeah. I think it might've been some creative plotting. It was, it was like the, it, it's still, yeah, it's obviously bothering me. I can't even finish the sentence about it. I just don't understand what they thought was going to happen. I remember having some thoughts about that, but I can't remember what they were now, which is why we, I wish we would have done a rewatch.

[01:33:04] And it's a little bit why everything went south because there was all this confusion when they were in the woods where Sean is like, wait, am I really running from you guys? And, and they're chasing her and, but they're sort of half heartedly chasing her. And then no wonder Callie is like, get away from my mom. And then no wonder if she's like, shoot, Lottie because she doesn't, she can't tell what's going on from watching it. It's very confusing. They're wearing masks. I kind of like that aspect of it. It's like everybody's waiting for somebody else to call it off. To say no. Yeah. And I think that's how things happen.

[01:33:31] I mean, not to get specific, but look at our politics. There's been some things suggested and you're like, oh, that's not really going to happen though. Wait, it is kind of happening. Is this actually happening? Holy shit. You know, would have said something different a month ago, two months ago, a year ago. Yeah.

[01:33:55] So it's just like context and, and, and what your reality is can shift and change in the moment, even sometimes. Yep. So we have the scene where the cabin burns down. Oh yeah. Yeah. And it's an, it's an amazing scene. It starts with Shauna writing in her journal about how she's upset that Natalie got chosen

[01:34:21] and she feels invisible and it should have been her. And then you hear like fire crackling and then they all, all hell breaks loose and they're just scattering to get out of the cabin, which it seemed like that somebody had nailed boards or something. Yeah. Taisa had to use the ax to open the door so that they could get out. So yeah. Coach had done like wedged something.

[01:34:51] If he had nailed, they would have heard him. He must've done something quiet. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. And they just try to grab whatever they can grab. And the acting in this scene was just amazing. Like you can just see it all in their faces. There's no words spoken. They're all just like we were starving to death and almost freezing to death in that cabin. And now we don't have it anymore. It's a good place to pick up and see, oh, what are they going to do now?

[01:35:21] Yeah. It's a great, beautiful moment. The cabin on fire against the snow and the night sky. And there's a wide shot where they see the smoke like drifting over like just miles and miles of trees and mountains. And it's Echo and the Bunnymen Killing Moon is playing. Yes. And it's such a like sad but eerie soundtrack for that scene. It's a cool scene. It's perfect. Perfect. That's a very, I'd say, unique song.

[01:35:51] You know, it's really good. Very Halloween-y. There had been a cover of the same song earlier in the episode. Yeah. That was more like slower folksy female vocals. I can't remember now who it was. How positive are you that Coach did it? About 95%. Same. I was thinking about it, but then you just brought up the scene with the matches. So I was like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:36:20] That pushes it over the edge. Yeah. Yeah. It seems pretty clear. I've heard people online saying that it could have been Ty. Yeah. Because she sleepwalks, you know. Yeah. But. Or an accident. I mean, it's unlikely. But the fact that the doors were hard to open and that was done from the outside just makes it seem so clear that it was Ben. Yeah. And where. I mean, maybe the writers could come up with something super interesting.

[01:36:50] But for me, they don't need to. This is interesting to see what happens after Coach burned down the cabin because he was so horrified at what everybody was doing, you know. Yeah. And then they're going to hunt him. Yeah. The only other thing that I think is possible that would be kind of interesting and cool. Wait, wait, wait. Let's. How about if we go into hopes for season three? Okay. Is that cool? Yeah. Because you're just about to talk about something like that, right? Yeah. So let's officially move into the next segment where we talk about our hopes for season three. Okay. Here we are.

[01:37:20] I have always suspected that there's somebody else out there with them. That they're not completely alone in the wilderness. It's not a spirit. It's another human who's like a crazy hermit human. And, you know, at one point, Javi mentions a friend who, a woman friend who didn't want him to come back. And that might be a hallucination or there could be a woman out there. And there's that underground, like there's underground tunnels. And, you know, Ladi had those visions of the like underground tunnel. Industrial. Yeah.

[01:37:50] Yeah. So the other possibility besides Ben burning down the cabin is that this mystery, other person did it. But, I mean, I've been saying for two seasons, there might be someone else out there with them. So we don't know. Well, this show does things really carefully. So it's hard to believe they would have made those references to nothing. I mean, in Lost. Yeah. That could never hear about it again. Right. Not this show. Yeah. Yeah. We hope.

[01:38:19] There's also a scene in the opening credits. One of the images is sort of looking up a hill and there's a figure standing at the top of the hill. And I've often thought that that was the mysterious other person who's out there in the woods. I've also heard that it might be Cabin Daddy, the guy that lives there. Maybe. But yeah.

[01:38:43] I hope that for season three, Tysa being a newly elected New Jersey state senator will be part of the story because the election was a big part of season one and then pretty much just dropped for season two. and so now I want to see that worked in somehow you know otherwise it makes all the stuff that

[01:39:10] happened in season one feel a bit like a little bit pointless yeah I want coach to live to survive the whole 19 months and to be the ultra villain oh I know this is unlikely but I'm really on it that'd be crazy because we always thought or at least I watching season one thought he's gonna die any episode now yeah yeah he's a

[01:39:38] disregarded him but then when he burned the cabin down I was like yeah oh wow yeah I want to find out what happened to crystal's body I'm yeah that's very curious we're gonna find that out yeah they'll eat it that's what I was thinking all the I that's what I was thinking yeah they'll find her um I hope it's still

[01:40:04] I mean you might argue it already has been but I hope it's still not 100 confirmed either way whether there's something supernatural going on I like that they keep that ambiguous everything could be logically explained yeah yeah for the most part for the most part yeah I agree I I like that it's one of my favorite parts of the show I think it's a really fun game to go back and

[01:40:30] forth on that line but I know that there are some viewers who are like just answer that question and move on already yeah and there's some viewers who just think no it's obviously supernatural and I can't totally argue against that at this point there's been a lot yeah with Lottie predicting things and having visions and stuff yeah yeah um and I also just I I hope I'm not reading too much into it when

[01:40:59] I keep talking about how it's a show about forces that lead regular people to do extreme things like performing cannibalistic rituals and stuff and or things we don't understand and how our reality can be shaped by our emotions and um about perspective and things that seem horrific to people outside can

[01:41:22] seem reasonable or even you know the only option for people involved like all that stuff um I really I love it and I want them to keep playing with it all you know yeah smart it makes a show feel really smart to me mm-hmm I love shows that are thrilling on one level and fun and funny and then also there's

[01:41:48] a depth to it I feel like squid game is another one like that and yellow jackets yeah yeah I mean we wouldn't be podcasting about it if it didn't have the depth that makes it fodder for this kind of conversation where we can reasonable people can disagree about motives or ethics in any given

[01:42:11] situation mm-hmm there's just so much to chew on but then when I podcasted about ash versus evil dead we would just repeat the jokes and laugh and that was fun too I'm not gonna ruin your good time that that sounds fun any other uh hopes just more Walter Walter's so entertaining yeah I really I want to be

[01:42:39] surprised you know yeah like I think I'm pretty good at like not setting myself up for disappointment because I'm I'm just willing to let it take me I trust these writers mm-hmm and I I was just thinking back to like the end of season one and what we were hoping for for season two and like there were so many things that we didn't see coming right yeah we didn't see Walter coming and that was a delightful

[01:43:08] addition to the story so whatever they're gonna throw at us in season three I'm sure is gonna be really fun I know some of the people joining the cast are just these stellar actors and I don't care what role they're in I'm excited to have them yeah what's her name from uh a million dollar baby Hilary Swank Hilary Swank yeah yeah and Joel McHale that's so cool and do we know who they're playing no or do we know there's been no uh there's been hardly any evidence just what was in the trailer

[01:43:38] and he wasn't even in the trailer all we know about her in the trailers we see her looking kind of like scared and a little beat up and and then and she says like you're really crazy I mean that could be anybody she could be talking to anybody I guess that's a good question is like who else do you think survived yeah came out of the 19 months alive and she might not be a yellow jacket yeah it's

[01:44:03] possible but you'd think she would be though or she might be you know a sibling of a yellow jacket or you know um a reporter or an FBI agent or something we're not even thinking of yeah or the other person who was out in the woods with them or you know there's so many possibilities that it's hard to say I've heard I've seen a lot of people thinking she's grown up Melissa

[01:44:27] yeah they and and like Mary they highlighted Mary a lot more in season two yeah so that's what I was thinking although I still like kind of think Mary's big girl too yeah yeah I think she might be big girl too yeah but yeah like ultimately I don't care what it is if it's good and right and uh if none of the

[01:44:51] things I said I hoped for happened but it's good then I'll be happy and I um I kind of hope it's a little better than season two it doesn't have to be as good as season one in my opinion season one's better than season two not by a lot but if it's in the middle there I'll be super happy yeah I wonder if we'll see Sammy he must that actor must be so much bigger now and the 15 yeah and the time that has

[01:45:17] passed in the show universe is not enough to account for that so yeah we might not ever see Sammy again yeah yep or Steve what about Steve who's Steve Steve is the replacement dog oh right oh yeah that's right she's like goes in and sees the altar that she made as herself for the first time and she's like

[01:45:42] oh I'll do better with you I'm sorry sure run away Steve let's get we didn't get a lot of listener buzz

[01:46:29] this time but we got a little I'm I'm sure we're gonna get a ton more once the show starts but let's get into it Tiffin Tebow says can't wait I'm so behind in the podcast it's okay just jump ahead jump in with us right now yeah Steve Brown says look forward to listening can't wait for the new season looking forward to some live Steve's Annabelle Berrier says hope to have another timeline the one when they came back after being rescued can't wait to listen to you guys again thank you yeah I

[01:46:58] hope we get more I bet you we will get more time then more parts of the story during that time fleshed out that we haven't seen so far I hope eventually we get to see Shauna's and Jeff's wedding Jennifer McGinley says so glad you're doing this save me a rewatch I'm hazy on the names now I wasn't loving that retreat place so less of that and more of the young timeline for me

[01:47:23] would like a bit of dead Jackie too if Ella Purnell has time um I love that actress as I'm typing this I'm getting scenes running through my head they fucking ate that wee guy ew and young Shauna used to make up on cryogenic oh he used to put makeup on cryogenic Jackie I'm bummed that Juliette Lewis was killed off but also not because those rubbery faces she pulled would take me out of the show and

[01:47:50] into another spitting image for example I haven't seen that non-UKers may not be familiar with that one look it up Natalie that's the character so wasn't loving Natalie senior but enjoyed Natalie is this the last one it should end at season three don't you think no they have a five season plan yeah five five season plan which I'm happy I'm excited about five seasons yeah um by the way

[01:48:15] Ellen Purnell uh was in the really great series fallout this kind of um it was almost like a dark comedy in a way sort of like yellow jackets but it was dystopian post nuclear fallout absurdist yeah cowboy western sci-fi thing and she was fantastic in it and played a completely different type of character

[01:48:39] in it and if you haven't seen that I highly recommend checking it out and we also uh podcasted on it we just did one podcast for the whole season Becky Anderson says I've been re-watching the last season to be fresh when the new one comes back I want more information on the entity that seems to have shifted to Shauna's daughter and what exactly does that mean I'd like confirmation that the sacrifice

[01:49:04] means Van's cancer is gone and is she gonna keep that cool ass video store or go back to her hometown is Lottie gonna be okay will we see Ty's darker half anymore is Steve okay who's watching her kid and how does she rectify the situation with her wife I want Walter and Misty dates interaction in every episode can Shauna and Jeff's marriage survive all that's happened and can Kevin keep quiet about

[01:49:32] everything that happened I think I think Becky missed a piece yeah yeah Kevin's yeah I think yeah I think that's what she means lastly who else survived and will show up this season coach Ben please yes Becky we are so on the same wave I'm so excited can't wait for the podcast after each episode y'all do a phenomenal job thank you thanks Becky I got the podcast with Becky a few weeks ago um she's doing

[01:50:01] a great podcast on pirate corpse entertainment um called what's on tonight podcast covering the pit which is a medical show about an emergency room in Pittsburgh cool it's great she's great she's guested on um still slaying and she'll be coming on in a couple of weeks uh I had a lot of fun and the show is really good and they got me to watch it because I was I was like no I can't do medical

[01:50:26] shows but it really is good it's a great show it's cool yeah Becky's gonna do a re-watch episode coming up too uh walking dead re-watch but one thing she said entity that uh I want more information on the entity that seems to have shifted to Shauna's daughter what is she mean by that I don't know where she gets that from so you know just from the sentence it it seems like she thinks that Shauna's

[01:50:50] daughter is now like the host to the dark the darkness from the wilderness or whatever but I don't know what that's based on she was there because she shot her maybe maybe but that's what I was thinking she shot her and then Lottie seemed different or slash better afterwards so let us

[01:51:10] know Becky yeah all right that is our show thanks so much for listening everyone uh that was fun so glad to be back podcasting about yellow jackets next up will be yellow jackets are you guys doing a

[01:51:33] single episode for the first two yes so covering both season three episode one and two it girl and dislocation if you want to write in or send us a voice message about it you can find all our contact information at podcastica.com and while you're there be sure to check out some of our other shows there are many many many shows on podcastica and they are all excellent and uh we've already talked

[01:52:01] about my still slaying show but I'm excited for the upcoming return of white lotus yeah me too I'm so excited about white lotus all these there's a couple shows coming out right now which is why I'm actually not going to be on the first several episodes for yellow jackets after this because I'll be busy with uh white lotus and then the final five of cobra kai are coming out right now and um I'm doing the re-watch but um yeah I'm gonna put a link actually for still slaying the

[01:52:29] buffyverse podcast in the show notes here and also for that fallout episode that I mentioned because it stars Ella Purnell so if you guys want to check either one of those out just check in the show notes and I'll have links to it thanks Jason all right that is our show thanks for listening buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz